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Episode 147 - The Fortune is in the followup - Tom Chelednik
92 Plays4 months ago
Happy Woo Wednesday! Tom Chelednik (director of Wedding Pro) is in the Get a HECK YES house
I heard Tom speak at the WIPA Pricing for Profits events at Ebell Santa Ana and he brought down the house. I had to interview him because I know you will love him too. The market is more competitive than ever and you have to create a lead follow up process that not only stays at the top of the couple's inbox, but also the lead content needs to encourage a two way conversation while building trust and rapport.
Tom has been in the wedding industry for 16 + years. He has had many different roles at The Knot, but always helping wedding pros book more weddings. He also was the COO of two Lux wedding venues so he understands what is like to be a wedding Pro.
Hot Topic
Following up on leads. (do you have a lead problem or a booking problem?).
* Build lead follow up content that creates trust and rapport
* Build lead follow up content that is helpful to the couples
*. Follow up at least 7 times over the course of 30 days. You are not getting ghosted you are getting lost in their inbox
Connect with Tom
Freebie
Connect with Tom
1 hour strategy session with Tom - email him https://heckyesmedia.co/
Connect with Carissa Woo
https://www.instagram.com/carissawoo
Sponsors
kickstartaccountinginc.com - Use code heckyes
17hats.com - Use code heckyes
Recommended
Transcript
Success Stories from Carissa's Program
00:00:00
Speaker
Happy Woo Wednesdays. Congrats to my student Phil. He doubled his prices and booked four weddings. He went through my triple threat program. I'm so happy for him. And congrats to my wedding planner, Student Shell. She raised her prices and booked three weddings using the sales deck that I gave her. So congrats. If you're interested in my program, just DM me the word demo, D-E-M-O. I'm at Carissa Woo. You are going to love this.
Introduction of Tom Chellenick and Discussion on Bookings & Leads
00:00:30
Speaker
Today I have the Director of Engagement of Wedding Pro, formerly known as The Knot. His name is Tom Chellenick. I just heard him spoke speak at a WIPA event and he tore down the house and he's just a really likable guy.
00:00:45
Speaker
So ask yourself these questions. Do you have a booking problem or do you have a leads problem or do you have both? He goes deep into the answers. And also if you don't have one, you need to have a follow-up strategy and he teaches us that today. He also goes deep into the new generation of weddings. So this was very insightful and everyone should be knowledgeable about this. And he's so generous, he's giving away a one hour strategy call, so hop on this because he's really going to dive deep into your business. Thank you, Tom, and enjoy this episode.
Carissa's Journey in the Wedding Industry
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host, Carissa, and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all. I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle, mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story, time-packed because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly, self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey. I hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon!
Tom Chellenick's Career and Industry Insights
00:02:15
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Get a Heck Yes with your girl, Carissa Wu. I have a very special guest. His name is Tom Chellenick, and he has been in the wedding industry for 16 plus years. He has had many different roles at the knot, but always helping wedding pros book more weddings, which you guys want, of course. And he also was the COO of 2 Lux Wedding Venues. So he has hundreds of things that he knows and he's part of Wedding Pro. So welcome, Tom. What's up? Thank you. I've been looking forward to this for weeks and weeks to talk to you. When we met in person a couple of months ago, I'm like, you know, she doesn't want to watch. She's a smart one. So and when we met, I really didn't even know you did a ah podcast.
00:02:59
Speaker
so I'm thrilled to be part of this. Thank you so much. Yeah, everyone was raving about you, Mikey and Jasmine. They were like, oh my God, they taught me so cool. And when I met you, I was like, oh, he's such a great guy. For the audience that don't know, like you were the guest speaker at the WIPA event at the E-Bell in Santa Ana. You did the mini TED Talk and there was a bunch of us there. I felt like, I don't know, a hundred people there. Yeah, a hundred. And I got some follow ups from that. I probably have had at least 21 on ones from that group of me just sitting down and talking to them and where their business is, what their challenges are, what's working, what's not working. So it was great. It's a great event. i I can't wait to come back. Wow, that's amazing. And before we started recording, you said that your last podcast, you got 23,000 listens. So we are going to try to beat that today. I'm a podcast star. I don't really know what that means. but
00:03:57
Speaker
you know, we'll we're going to beat it. We're going to beat it. We're going to beat it. You got more views, listens than David to Tara. So Tom is a big deal. So you guys are going to want to stay to the end. But I wanted to ask you, what did you talk to whip about? What was your presentation about?
Tom's Career Evolution and Move to Florida
00:04:14
Speaker
My presentation there was pricing strategies, I believe. I do a lot of presentations. So what are the five things you should do to price your business correctly? And it's a lot more than just doing a competitive analysis. you know You do a competitive analysis, but inside of the competitive analysis, there's five different steps in competitive analysis. So especially in these interesting times that we're in right now, if you don't have your pricing and products and services right,
00:04:39
Speaker
You're going to struggle. You're going to struggle. So yeah, definitely. We're going to get into that today, but I guess let's do a little rewind to when Tom was a young boy. what were you like um yeah What were you like as a kid? What were you like growing up? What were you into? Tell me about like your family. Anything I grew up in rural Pennsylvania, um, and have one older brother who was, you know, somewhat of a bully like all older brothers, but of course we're we're close now. But I grew up in Pennsylvania and my graduate is 62 people in my high school. So that's how small town this was. um We didn't even have a track team. ah We had a football team. you know We did a lot of motorcycle riding, hunting, fishing, and just we had an ideal childhood, but there was just nothing to do in that town. So I left.
00:05:36
Speaker
Where did you leave and where did you leave to? I went to um I went to college in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in a college called Central Pennsylvania, Central Pennsylvania Business College. And it's so I look back at this and like so stupid why I picked this. Number one it was a private college, which was massively expensive for that band. It was like eighteen thousand dollars a year, like 1984. So I'm now really dating myself.
Transition to The Knot and Industry Marketing
00:06:00
Speaker
um but I went there because the ratio was 16 girls for every one guy. ah was my you know And it had a large Olympic sized swimming pool. So I came from this tiny little town to this, you know, 16 girls for every one guy, you know, even even a squirrel can find a nut sometimes. So I have a business degree and had a ton of different jobs after that. My first job was really in advertising though, in
00:06:28
Speaker
yellow pages. So I sold yellow pages if anybody on this listening to this remembers what a phone book it is. I remember that. It was so interesting because it was before I was in the wedding business again but we I used to love to go to um caterers to get them in the phone book because there was a bunch of different wedding categories that they should have been in. So you got multi categories in the phone book. That was really it was a really great job because back then You advertise, if you're a wedding business, you advertise in the phone book, you did wedding shows, and you couldn't afford to do radio, TV, and newspaper. It was just too expensive. That was it. Wow. Okay, wait. So how does, like, I missed that. How does the yellow pages correlate to, did you start a wedding business at the time? No, no, no, no. We just, I used to call on everything from an accountant to caterers to zo zoologists, but I loved calling on wedding pros.
00:07:19
Speaker
I see.
Role as Director of Vendor Engagement
00:07:20
Speaker
Does it be different categories? You'd make a lot of money on those photographers. Could it would be wedding photography, portrait photography? for All these categories they would have to be under. Wow. So it all kind of came full circle. yeah It came full circle. Now look, I work at the knot, which basically is a directory, right? Yeah. Okay. That's so interesting. Did you meet your wife in college so from the one to 16 ratio? I did, but she, she was not in the fun crowd. I was in the fun crowd and we knew of each other, but we had some similar friends after college. She lived with a bunch of girls. I lived with a bunch of guys. We used to party together and it just sort of worked out.
00:07:58
Speaker
You know, there's something to be said to like my wife and I never even went on a date. We just were friends and friends that just led into a marriage and 33 years later, two kids, three grandchildren. And I've lived in 14 or 15 different houses in 33 years. So we moved around a lot. Wow. Did the, um did your job, your career take you to all these different places? It really did. um A lot of transfers. We were living in Pennsylvania and Erie, Pennsylvania It was snowing on May 31st. We're getting our boat out of storage and I said there is no reason for us to live here so we literally picked up and moved to Charleston, South Carolina and um I was in the and was in there but yellow page business. I was running yellow page company there We lived there for three years and it just wasn't warm enough for us in Charleston, South Carolina So we ended up here in in Florida. I'm in South Florida now about 45 minutes above West Palm Beach and
00:08:52
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. What was like your favorite one of your favorite places to live? I think Florida. Florida has been Florida has been good. um It's hot as Hades, you know, the summertime that humidity is miserable. But there's so much to do here. I've always wanted to live near the beach, live near the ocean. And we have yeah all the fishing and the boating and, you know, so Florida, Florida has been good. and my perfect world i'd like to have two houses one in Florida. and one in the mountains back in pennsylvania but
00:09:25
Speaker
don't know if that's goingnna happen at this point but it's nice to go visit ah that's awesome i was goingnna ask you like um how long were you at yellow pages and then but how did it lead into maybe working at the not wedding pro right that's that's a great story so i was in in the phone book world for about 10 years. And when I moved to Florida, I was still on the yellow page where I was a general manager of a phone book company
Adapting to Market Changes in the Wedding Industry
00:09:50
Speaker
down here. And I realized probably a little later than I should have that phone books are going to be dead because the yellow page industry just did not invest enough in the internet to make them to make them relevant anymore. And I just put my name
00:10:07
Speaker
ah you know open for work on Indeed or I think it was Monster at the time or something and a headhunter called me and I started interviewing about the not job and I had two interviews and I never did any research. I didn't even know what the not was. You know what I mean? It was 2008. I had no idea what the not was. I thought oh this sounds like a pretty good job. So I did a little research. I ended up getting the job and it was We worked from home and back then nobody worked from home. Like my parents were like, that's not a real job. That's not a real job working from old, you know. And that was in 2008. So I transitioned from Yellow Pages right into the knot.
00:10:45
Speaker
Wow, yeah, I started my wedding photography journey 2009. So so crazy, right? So I had a few years before you in a different industry, though. Okay, okay. Tell me a little bit about like the early years of working at the knot. Like, what was it like? Like, what was the wedding industry like? I know it's so different. It is. It's so different. Back then, 2008, 2009, if you were in the wedding business, there was not a lot of places for you to go get couples from. It was the knot. It was still the phone book. It was bridal shows. And again, you couldn't afford newspaper radio billboards. That was just um unheard of, right? So like if you weren't in the knot, you just weren't
00:11:28
Speaker
Nobody could find you. right However, um way back when, um we used to have to explain what the not was. A lot of people didn't even have websites yet. you know they They had these little informational fact files they used to call them, and that was their website. so um Then as time went on, it just became, you know if you're not on the not, you're not even in the wedding wedding wedding business so um but the transformation from 2008 to where it is now is just amazing wow tell me about like your role now and like what's a typical day in tom's life so now i um i've many different jobs at the knot
00:12:09
Speaker
over the years, but I left for two years and ran two wedding venues in Florida, but um I am the director of vendor engagement. And my typical, I have the perfect job. It's like the perfect job at the knot. It's doing what I love to do, right? I travel 70% of the year doing speaking engagements, meeting with customers one-on-one in person. um When I'm home, I'm looking for more speaking engagements. I'm looking for, I'm having one-on-one customers. I'm doing these podcasts. And you know where I am in my career right now is I'm not looking to build a resume anymore. I'm not looking to build a career anymore. it' is This is exactly where I want to do.
Generational Shifts in the Wedding Market
00:12:49
Speaker
um Just help wedding pros and my internal not employees explain the wedding business and see how I can make a difference in people's lives. It's a great job. I'm very lost. I'm privileged. Yeah. um That's a good feeling, right? it Just to be where you want to be and not have to feel like you have to maybe chase or
00:13:10
Speaker
I'm done chasing. i you know Hey, do I still need to work? Absolutely. Do I still need the money? Absolutely. But it's so nice. ah This week i I've been helping ah it's called a company called The Cookie Jar and they've been struggling for months and I really sat down with them and helped them and had a call with them yesterday. And they were just so thankful because last month they booked five weddings. That's four more than they booked the three pre three previous months. I had, they did the work. I directed them. I won't take credit for their success, but it's so rewarding. And I see that every day. I see that, you know, my efforts my efforts help. so
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's hard when like you see people struggling and then it's because they work so hard in the business and they're like pulling out a negative and then for you to like flip it around for them, that meant that must be like the best feeling ever. It is. Only if that wedding pro is willing to change. you Yeah. got change you got it you know You got to keep swinging the bat. You got to keep things things doing differently, especially in this world in which we live. today I love that. why We talked a little bit about it before we hopped on, but like why do you think people are struggling so much in the industry right now? I think I'm confident that we're in this like perfect storm situation of where we are in the wedding business in the world.
00:14:32
Speaker
number one um We have the economy. We do the the, not just the largest real wedding study in in the United States, there's over 10,000 people that answer their answer questions and we take that information, slice and dice it. And the economy actually ah came up as being a factor in weddings this year more than any time before. So the economy we have the economy situation playing with us. The other thing we have is this great wedding reset, right? Where um people are feeling less leads, people are feeling less weddings, because we're resetting ourselves back to the 2018-2019 number of weddings. Where we're still going to have about 2 million to 2.1 million weddings, but
00:15:15
Speaker
Wedding pros are used to doing, you know, as a United States, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6 million weddings. So there's this, yes, there's less leads and yes, there's less weddings. But then the other big thing really is this generational reset. So that generational shift. We have Gen Z's, younger millennials that are in the business right now. And wedding pros that have been around, businesses that have been around, myself have been around a long time, realize anytime there's a generational shift, If you're not reevaluating your products, your services, your marketing, how you're responding to leads, your pricing, everything within your business to shift to this generation, you're going to struggle. That's just the way it is. It's not about you, it's about your clients. So we have all these three things that are happening and and unfortunately some people won't embrace the change, won't accept the change and and they're struggling.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's really well said because that's like a very hot topic that people ask about. So you kind of summed it up in three different points, but I love that. But one more question before hot topic where we're actually going to help people stop struggling, help wedding pros stop struggling, but you help so many wedding professionals get that heck yes. But for Tom, for you, for all these years,
Strategies for Securing Business Agreements
00:16:32
Speaker
and becoming like director of wedding pro, which is a big deal, like, how do you get your heck yes? What what is your best heck yes technique? Pardon this short interruption, but guess what? I have a new program. It's for all wedding professionals. It's called The Triple Threat. We redo your brand messaging, the homepage of your website. Part two is we do all your marketing. we
00:16:57
Speaker
create a beautiful brochure so you could start getting on Prefer venue vendor list. And we do all your sales so we actually make you a sales presentation leading your client to the heck yes so you get paid. I have a free 20 minute demo training. It's only 20 minutes. Go to my Instagram at Carissa Woo. and DM me the word DEMO. I will send it right over. It's how to get 10 to 15 quality leads in your inbox per month. Enjoy, guys. Krista Wu is a LA-based wedding photographer who's actually turning business coach. She helped me grow and change, and I'm so proud to call you coach.
00:17:43
Speaker
Tell us how you're feeling. like I want to just know a little bit more about your thoughts. It's beautiful and you're awesome. It's beautiful. I'm speechless. I just like the fact that it feels like myself. like i can I feel myself when I see this. Oh, man. Well, you got me pumped and excited for this. Carissa, thank you. What is my best Heck Yes technique? um I think listening. to whoever my customer is, empathizing with them, um and making sure I'm aligning to what their needs are and recommending what, you know, trying to recommend something that's going to help them. um You know, that's what I really feel, like everybody has a different problem, right? And if you go in with a cookie cutter solution, it's not going to work.
00:18:41
Speaker
And how do I get my heck yeses? I listen and I acknowledge what I heard. I make recommendations. And then I also always ask to gain agreement.
Lead and Booking Problems Differentiation
00:18:52
Speaker
You know, like, you know, this is what I've heard. Like every time I start a call, I set an agenda. What I'd like to do today is go over what your current business actions are, what you're doing, um what's working, what's not working. Then I'm going to share a few tactics, if it makes sense. um Does that sound okay? And I asked her. I asked to move move forward. so I love that. that that that's That's it. Just listen to it. is i think that's and i even I even set those agendas and I listen very closely in my personal life too. Whatever my wife is saying, kids are saying, neighbors are saying, and I always recap that and acknowledge, okay, from what I'm hearing, I heard you say this.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, I got um a lot of feedback from like WIPA people and WIPA board, um but they said you're you're a great listener and you weren't like salesy. You didn't come off as salesy yet at all during the presentation. And we really, everyone appreciated that. I'm going to like Tahoe in August. Are you far from like Tahoe? I'm pretty far, but im I'm willing to make the trip if it is. Okay. Yeah. but To see you. um Okay. What is your hot topic, Tom? This is a good one. And why is it so near and dear to your heart? My hot topic is, I'll start with, do you have a lead problem or do you have a booking problem? So that's what I say at least two times two times a day. And my hot topic is um your lead cadence and follow up. How many times you follow up to get that two-way conversation? Oh, okay. This is a good one. Cause I actually have that problem. I have a booking problem. I used to not, um but- Again, things change, right? yeah things Things change. It's interesting.
00:20:33
Speaker
Most people don't even realize they have a booking problem, right? Or they have a lead problem until, you know, six months it's gone by and they look back at their business and all of a sudden, oh wow, I've just wasted 300 leads and I didn't do a good job of following up on. So our topic today is, do you have a lead problem? Do you have a booking problem? And let's talk about lead cadences and follow-ups. All right, let's take it away with any tip or any suggestion that you have for our audience. OK, so certainly. So you get a lead no matter where it comes from. Number one, it's a qualified lead, meaning somewhere along the line, that couple found you and they need your service. It might be the right vibe, style, fit, price, but it's still a qualified, qualified lead. so And you also paid for that lead.
00:21:31
Speaker
right So somewhere along, if it's a referral, you paid for that lead. So do you even know what your cost per lead is. Some photographers, for instance, might be paying $30 per lead. Some might be paying $180 per lead. But whatever that price is, it should give you motivation to follow up. So so I always say this. Everybody thinks all leads are ghosting me, leads are ghosting you. The world in which we live right now, Couples used to email three to five photographers, three to five venues, et cetera. Now it's five to eight. You're emailing more than ever before. Why? Because they're price conscious. They wanna deal with people that, pros that are gonna help them put their vision together, help with stress, price, features, benefits, all of that. So you're not necessarily getting ghosted. youre If this is the inbox, right,
00:22:24
Speaker
And this is your email. You're going down, down, down, down, down, down, down, down. You're going down at the bottom of the inbox, right? So you want to stay at the top of the inbox. So you're not getting ghosted. You're simply getting lost in their inbox. So in the perfect world in which I live in, and I've seen this work across the country, no matter what category you are,
Email and Client Engagement Strategies
00:22:44
Speaker
there's this idea of following up at least seven times via email over the course of 30 days. So what's the first question that you get asked every time you get a lead, Chrisa? Price? What is your price? Are you available? Are you available? So we got to answer those questions. You can't hide that fact that what your price is. But you also don't want to give them too much information that they then don't have any questions. So that first email on day one, as quickly as you can possibly respond,
00:23:20
Speaker
Couples are 2.2 times more likely to respond if we reply under three hours. So that three hours becomes very, very, um very important. And one in two couples expect to hear back from their vendor within 24 hours or less. um So that first email looks like, hey, you know congratulations on your engagement, could make something better than that. The good news is your date of February 15, 2025 is available. Our price ranges, our packages are custom unique, but price ranges from $3,000 to $10,000, customers usually, couples usually spend six. So we're giving them a range and we're giving that couples usually spend that pretty much who your ideal client is. okay And then you're always ending in that open-ended question. you know what are the What are the three things you want to see at your reception? Something like that. So that's day one. Day three, we have another email that's being helpful.
00:24:16
Speaker
So you're going to provide them with a, maybe it's a template that for their must have shots or must not have shots or a wedding timeline template or some tip or trick or something that you probably already use in your intake form. So day nine, this is the other thing that I see working across the country, which is I think a a really cool idea. um I see ah pros using a promotional email. Meaning they're saying, hey, check, you know, making sure you got my free template on day three, right? And for the next 20 days, we're offering a promotion for you to use. If you book with us, pick one of three different things and pick those things that are probably already in your packages, but you're just plucking them out, right? Why is a promotion important?
00:25:06
Speaker
because they're emailing five to eight other photographers. You want to make your business stand out above and give your business a sense of urgency to hit reply. So it's an interesting thing that's working out there. The day 14 email, is it did you know? It's some fun facts about your business. The day 20, again, were being helpful. Maybe it's giving a tip or another tool that they can use. Day 26 or the sixth email is that, hey, everything that I haven't heard from you and I gave you this, gave you this, gave you the promotion to what's going on. And the last one is that, I'm sure you've all heard this last ditch email, which is, are you okay? One of three things have happened. You're no longer getting married. Oh, that's sad. Oh, you found another photographer. You found another photographer. That's sad for me. Or maybe you're just binging 90 day fiance. What type of candy do you want? You got to hit, you got to make that last ditch email um ah sort of shocking.
00:26:04
Speaker
And historically it's the number one responded email. That's oh crazy. Well, if anybody, I know you're going to put my information on there. I have like this lead summary sheet that I go into a little bit more detail. It's anybody emails me. I'll be happy to copy
Learning from Competitors
00:26:17
Speaker
and paste that. Oh, thank you. I'm all already like taking notes. and like like yeah okay I So, but then there's this idea of you get a phone number from one of the leads. There's too many pros that aren't calling or texting. If the couple gives you their phone number, however, from a not or a wedding wire, from you know your website, whatever that may be, it gives you the permission to call and text them. So if you have these seven-day worth of emails, the first thing you do when you get a lead is you call them, probably gonna leave a message, you text them saying, I just left you a message, about to send you an email, then you send your first email.
00:27:00
Speaker
ah Within those first 30 days, you should call and text at least three to four times. So yeah that's what that's you know that's what's really changing in the world. Yeah. I'm definitely i'm i'm good at calling and texting because I'm like, hello. I want to be first. I want to be first. What's really strange too is like I get access to everybody's dashboard on on the knot wedding wire and I can see all their leads and responses. and um On the knot wedding wire, The couple gives shares information like, here's my wedding website, here's my vision board, here's where I'm getting married, here's my budget, blah, blah. But I see more and more couples giving phone numbers. We don't force them to give phone numbers because then we would get less leads, obviously, but more and more than giving phone numbers. I'm hoping there's a shift. I'm hoping there's a shift because you want the phone number.
00:27:54
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah, I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this. So I guess you're saying like a lot of people don't have any sort of email sequence at all. No. And if they have they'll follow up one or two times, you know, the other thing with the emails, you got to keep them short. There's an attention span of 12 seconds. So this is a really interesting tip to if you take your first email, second email, whatever that may be, and you give it to your neighbor who's not in the wedding business, and somebody that's gonna give you feedback, honest feedback, and you say, please read this, and you count to 12 in your mind, and then hit say, stop, and ask them a few questions. What were your two takeaways? Did it encourage you to read on, or did it and it didn't encourage you to hit reply? right like That's a fantastic free tool, because it's going to force you most likely to make those changes.
00:28:51
Speaker
You got 12 seconds. That's it. Wow. Yeah. I would say mine's like five seconds for me. i and Yeah. Yeah. And you know, 12 seconds is, is, is probably, probably long. So there, and then the idea of, you know, I can't expect any pros to really, um, do this all manually, right? Seven emails, 30 days and do there. You have to have some sort of software to automate. Yeah, just I use 17 hats. Something that stuck out to me, Tom, when you spoke to Wippo was about when they actually reject you. It stuck out to me because I thought it was pretty genius. But you said something like you ask, who did they end up hiring? And then you do um kind of like a little bit of research on that. So can you talk about that? Sure. but You know, if you have 10 people
00:29:48
Speaker
that you ask, well, who did you end up hiring or whatever? you know Who'd you go with? And that last-ditch email, and they say, hey, I hired Tom Photography. right And only three of them respond. Well, then, I'm starting to create and keeping a list of all those people that are hiring, because they're my competitors at that point. And I'm going to go and do some sort of a competitive analysis and see why they're hiring. Is it price? Is it style? Is it their website is better? Is it that their reviews are better? you know I'm going to dig in a little bit with that, but it's really important because everybody in your market, in your category, isn't your competitor. <unk>s just it's just not It's just not that way, but you should know three to five of your competitors, five being on the the the most end.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit scary, in my opinion, but now doing it for like, wedding photography for so long, like, it's so beneficial to know that early on. um It's kind of that mentality of like, oh, I don't want to know, you know, like, if they don't want me, whatever, you know, that that type of mentality. But um I feel like if you're if you don't know, it's there's so many blind spots, right?
Industry Challenges and Support Strategies
00:31:04
Speaker
so And if you don't if you don't think you have competitors, it's a problem. And if you're not watching your competitors, that's a problem. Because they're going to they're they're gonna if they're running a good business, they're going to outperform you. yeah you you you got understand Understand who they are, what they're doing, why they're doing it that way, looking at their social media, looking at the reviews.
00:31:32
Speaker
You know, like the fact that we don't look, so many pros don't look at their competitors review and make adjustments to their own business based on what those reviews are saying, the good and the bad. Yeah. Okay. I have a question. Um, after the WIPO event, and you said you talked to like 21 one-on-one calls, which is pretty crazy. Um, cause I do sales calls too, but to do that, it's, it's a lot of work. Um, so thank you for that. Um, really helping the in industry, but what do you feel like it's coming up for them like the most? And then second part of that question is like, how, what are you telling them to help them?
00:32:11
Speaker
I'm excited to share with you all about our first Get A Heck Yes sponsor, Seventeen Hats. I've been using this CRM company for over a decade and I've been referring them to all my frienders for all this time. I always know when I'm going to get paid and most importantly, I get paid. So here is a question. What is holding you back? What's keeping you from finding success as a small business person? It's not passion. The fact that you're listening to my podcast shows that you're eager to learn and get better. Know what holds you back is all the chaos of business, paperwork, mailed invoices, and no system to handle at all. That's where Seventeen Hats comes in. Seventeen Hats is a better way to manage your small business
00:32:57
Speaker
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00:33:30
Speaker
So now that you're all organized in 17 hats, I have one more quick commercial, but this is really gonna change your life. And it's with Kickstart Accounting. Go to episode 131, check out the podcast all about how to change your finances. So yeah, ever since the podcast, I signed up for Kickstarter Accounting and wow, so much peace of mind in my finances. So if you are a wedding pro looking to streamline your financial processes and gain clarity on your business financial health, I have the perfect solution for you.
00:34:05
Speaker
Kickstart Accounting Inc. offers specialized bookkeeping services designed by entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. Their services are tailored to woman-owned businesses, focusing on providing clear, accurate financial records, allowing you to focus on what you do best, growing your business. I invite you to book a discovery call with Kickstart Accounting. The link is in the show notes. Mention heck yes. And yeah, they are going to get your finances in order so you can continue to scale and succeed. Back to the show. So what's coming up with the most is this thing we started off in the beginning with this, is this the perfect storm of the generational shift, the economy.
00:34:51
Speaker
um and and the reset of weddings. I can talk easy about it. It's just a reset. It's just more like everybody needs to calm down. Like it is what it is. We can't make, we can't invent 2.6 million weddings when there's only 2 million or 2.1 million. So what has to change within your business, right? You got to treat every lead even better than you were training it before. So I'm really spending a lot of time on exactly what we're talking about, Karissa, with the lead follow-ups and changing and and and and what does that what does the content say within those lead follow-ups. That's the most of it. and it
00:35:28
Speaker
And overall, it's it's working. you know I don't have the silver bullet. It works in every single market, every single category. and But you need to start testing things. If something's not working, then let's change it, test it for six weeks, and then let's make
Impact of Gen Z and Millennials on Weddings
00:35:44
Speaker
adjustments. This is the time to do that before engagement season's happening. By engagement season that's coming around, you should have all your templates done, you know what's you know subject lines, pricing, all of that. Because you get one shot of engagement season. Interesting. Okay, I want to tap a little bit more into generational shifts. Like, um you talked a lot about Gen Z. um When you spoke to WIPA. Tell us a little bit about Gen Z and like, what are the differences now of like how they're um choosing a photographer or wedding professional. So let me pull up my Gen Z sheet here. Um,
00:36:27
Speaker
Gen Z in general, and I can share a QR code, too, with your with your people that can download a Gen Z sheet. um These people, you know, it's interesting. Number one, we do the real wedding study and lots of Gen Z. um And for years and years and years, people have been describing their wedding as fun. I want a fun wedding as the main descriptor. That has now changed into the number one thing is romantic. Why do we think it's romantic now? Because Gen Z, younger millennials have been through a lot of divorce and they want to romanticize their weddings even more. So why is that important to you? You should have fun pictures, but you should also be showing romantic pictures, videos, and and and and talking and talking about all of those romance things.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like like just to like piggyback on that, like, I do have some Gen Z that Gen Zers that booked me. And they are like more fun. I would say they went to like EDM festivals and Coachella and they met there. um And they're more just like, whoo. So I totally agree on that. no The top five challenges that Gen Z and couples in general that are Gen Z and younger millennials are are or facing is planning within a budget, making decisions, taking longer to make decisions, determining their guest lists, balancing what's priority over their family, and just even knowing where to start. Stress. they're They're living in this ball of stress. If you can communicate as wedding pros to them that you'll help take some of this stress away from them, it's going to
00:38:06
Speaker
help tremendously to connect with this group. ah Right. So that's my job right there. That's your job. No, that's my drop. Like I'm going to text some of my students right now. Like that is a really good mindset right now for our social media. You know, they're they're living. We're all living in a bundle of stress, but they're they're they're really living with it. Right. um The other thing is couples are hiring about an average of 14 wedding vendors, which is a lot of wedding vendors trying to deal with. And I always look at this as a wedding professional, a business owner. What other product or services that I can, can I can be two out of those 14 wedding vendors instead of just one, right? Like what other revenue streams that come, come in, because they also are looking for sort of this ease of planning ah hu stop shop situation.
00:38:58
Speaker
So, I mean, you're a photographer. I don't know. There's probably many photographers that do video. But what else can you do? I mean, think outside the box. You're all hidden signs, right? Can you create a signage package for them? I don't know. Totally. you know Yeah, I love that. I think it also makes you different and stand out if you could do something else and just be like, Oh shoot, she does. She does this too. So let's just hire her. Right. Right. They're Gen Z's live on the internet. They personalize experience is a must. So when you're responding to them and you're in your and you get it booked, you're trying to personalize as much as you can possibly personalize to continue to text with them.
00:39:39
Speaker
or to continue to connect with them so that you get a good review get a good review at the end, right?
Motivation and Advice for Struggling Professionals
00:39:44
Speaker
So, technology, you know, they're all into technology. yeah You gotta be where they're at. Okay, cool. Let me ask you this question. um For people that are on the knot or want to sign up for the knot, what are some maybe tips and tricks on how to make your page stand out so people actually click yeah request a call or request a consultation. So but photos and videos are number one. The first 10 photos should show your business that what you actually actually do. Back to this idea of showing fun and romantic. You need to show fun and romantic. You need to show um not just like the as a photographer, just the portrait shots. You need to really dig in those first 10. And if I look at your first 10 photos, can I distinguish by looking at your first 10 photos
00:40:34
Speaker
the types of weddings that you like to do, who your ideal client is, you know sort of what guess sort of what the price of that wedding may be. right like Do I get an idea of who your ideal client is? another Another tip that we know that works is upload your pricing PDF. Put pricing. 80% of couples, their major determination before they send a um ah lead is they want to know the pricing. period. Okay. So we know that we are pushing that, you know, people want more leads, you've got to put some sort of pricing on that because couples come to us all the time and saying, why doesn't this person have pricing i need and before I before i I hit hit hit lead. So um use the tools that are available. There's amazing tools we
00:41:25
Speaker
you know, there's insights and how many clicks to your website, et cetera, et cetera. Email me, I'll help you. Oh, cool, cool. Okay, this is flown by this conversation. I can't believe it's already already been 35 minutes. But I want to ask that. Yeah, it's crazy. I want to ask this last question before rapid fire questions. um Speak to the heart of wedding pros struggling to get leads and struggling to make it in this industry. Like what would you tell them today, like today to motivate them to get out of the funk and just get out of their heads and just make it happen? Yeah, I say to
00:42:02
Speaker
Two things. um The ones that are struggling today, take a good look at your and you're in business. right You're already in business and you're struggling. Take a good look at your business and what needs to change. Sort of like what we started at the top with. you know are Are your products, are your services speaking to today's couples and future couples? ah is your pricing speaking to Is your pricing speaking to that? and be willing to make those changes, like be open. Just because last year you followed up three times, it doesn't work anymore. It just doesn't. Because they're emailing three more vendors than they did last year. So you need to you need you need to stand out. There's so much free education, just like what you're doing out there. You can listen to it, but you've got to take action.
00:42:50
Speaker
and they love that I love that. So, so good, Tom. Okay, rapid fire questions. right Let's try the first one. You have your parents' wedding pictures behind you, which is so beautiful. They're black and white film. um What is the biggest lesson that your parents taught you that really instilled in your heart that yeah like you took away for the rest of your life? What a great question. ah i Morals and honesty. Oh, I love that. ye um that seems That's like always tell the truth. ah And they raised us with a lot of morals. So let's go handin hand in hand. I love that. What is your favorite thing about being a grandpa?
00:43:36
Speaker
First off, grandparenting is life's reward. So those of you that are in the midst of children or in the throes of getting up with babies, remember, God willing, you live long enough, you get to have these grandparents these grandchildren. And the favorite possible thing is, to me, is to watch my children be parents. Like I've done a good job. I love my grandchildren. They're literally my wife. I see them about every day, but to see that, what they to watch my children be good parents is so rewarding because I know they're going to raise good kids.
Personal Insights and Future Hopes
00:44:13
Speaker
That's awesome. That's amazing. and I love that. Um, and then let's see, you travel a lot. Um, and you, you know, you talked to a lot of people. How do you like decompress and like, what do you do for fun?
00:44:28
Speaker
Photographers, I am so thrilled to announce my new sponsors Aftershoot, an AI editing company. They do AI editing, unlimited cropping and straightening. I am seriously blown away by the precision and five hours a week I get back in my life. My life is so much better and I literally don't have any more anxiety. It's so crazy. I remember being at barbecues with my laptop because I had to get out of shoot and and that was so stressful, so not fun. And the best part about after shoot compared to their competition is that it's a monthly minimal cost, not cost per image because I am a true overshooter. I could shoot like, I don't know, 3000 photos in an engagement shoot, which is not good. But anyways, using my code in the show notes to get a 30 day trial and 20% off
00:45:21
Speaker
You're going to get in the software and just go crazy with it. And AfterShoot edits 2.0 just released, and they have a lot of new features that you are going to love. AfterShoot, I can't thank you enough for giving me back my time to focus on this podcast. Oh yeah, back to the podcast. This is crazy because my son just yelled at me. Dad, what are you talking about retiring? All you do is work. You even started a whole other company as a hobby. And I guess, I mean, I love to swim and I love to do yard work. but But I started another company as a hobby. So that's how I decompress. I'm in the wedding business, but I'm also in the death business, which is bizarre, I know. But that's been a very interesting journey of understanding a whole other business and creating a website and SEO. And they go hand in hand. Yeah, I mean, I look at the site. It's really good. What is it called again? It's called farewellit.com.
00:46:13
Speaker
ah fraillan dot com And then you pretty much before they pass, like they have a questionnaire and of everything. It's a site where you can download forms and templates. It's not genius, but download forms and templates to plan your own life celebration. So what food do you want? Music, games, people, etc, etc. so just Yeah, well, we'll link it up. I mean, all our parents are getting old. So I think it's, it's a good conversation starter. For sure. That would have been my hobby. Am I making any money at it? No, at this point. But it's it's been a great, it's been a great hobby. It's been a great hobby. Oh, I love that. Okay, last question. um I guess you've done so much and you're already like in this great place. But like, where do you see yourself in like the next like five years? Like what's like your big vision?
00:47:05
Speaker
Um, in five years, I'm hoping to still be in the wedding business and somewhat as far as a consultant business culture, working from then on, if I'm lucky enough to still still have me. Um, and, but really spending more time with my grandkids and my little side hustle, actually paying enough to pay health insurance. That would be a great, that would be a great, that'd be a great thing. So, hey, life's life goes like that, man. So five years we'll be here before we know it. Oh, I love that. And where can everyone find you? And you have a freebie for everyone, which is very, very, very generous. So um they can email me and put it at the end at tchalednik.com. You can follow me on Instagram. I'm looking to grow that. um ah Tom underscore chalednik. Also follow call the wedding pro. Like there's so much great information there. Advertise or don't advertise. There's so many tips and tricks in there.
00:48:03
Speaker
um that will that that will help you. um And shoot me an email. Yeah, and you are offering a one-hour strategy session. Is that still up for grabs? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So anybody shoot me an email, and we're really going to dig in. I'm going to hold you accountable, right? I want to, together, we're going to figure out the math of your business, what's your lead to percentage of leads to consultations, consultations to bookings, leads to bookings. We're going to dig into your follow-ups, dig into your who your ideal client is, dig into your pricing, what's working, what's not working. And I'll spend all the time
00:48:38
Speaker
I, you want me to spend with you as long as you are serious and are doing the work. So hop on it everyone. Thank you so much, Tom. This is a very powerful conversation. I really appreciate you. Thank you for having me. I look forward to more conversations.
00:48:58
Speaker
Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine. See you next time, wedding pros.