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Episode Five: Reflecting back and projecting forward w/ Scott & Ben
171 Plays2 years ago
In our first episode for 2023, Kate & Tony welcome Casuals Rep Scott and Branch Prez Ben back to the pod. We chat about how we all feel bargaining went in 2022, and what we are hoping to achieve in 2023.
Please take a minute to check your details are correct at www.nteu.au and to register for the All-Members meeting on Tuesday, Feb 7 here - https://nteu.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJYof-2hqTMuHdAWd9__kvjg5NKGd4junpff
If you have questions about the process you'd like answered, drop us an email at myunionwroteaneba@gmail.com
You can stay up to date with everything happening with bargaining and at the branch by following us on social media:
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NTEUMonashBranch
Twitter - https://mobile.twitter.com/nteumonash
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Acknowledgment of Traditional Custodians
00:00:18
Speaker
G'day, everyone, and welcome to My Union Road and EBA. This is a podcast to chronicle the progress towards a new enterprise bargaining agreement at Monash University and is brought to you by members of the Monash branch of the NTEU. We're here to take the old agreement and hashtag change it. And unlike our namesake, my dad wrote a porno, do everything we can to avoid being fucked in the process. Those involved with the podcast would like to acknowledge that it is being recorded on the unsaid lands of the Kulin nations,
00:00:47
Speaker
on whose lands we live, teach, and work. We would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional custodians and elders past and present, and to the continuation of the cultural, spiritual, and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.
Pay Disputes and Financial Struggles at Monash University
00:01:09
Speaker
I hope you are having a wonderful start to the year. I'm Adam Fernandes, one of the NTU National Councillors of the Monash Branch. It has been 214 days since our last agreement expired, and 97 days since we first requested to discuss a pay rise offer.
00:01:26
Speaker
CPI is now at 7.8% and rising, meaning our pay is not keeping up with our expenses. Have you reached the point where you are looking for a second job in order to pay your bills? Call us now and let us know who is hiring.
00:01:42
Speaker
Meanwhile, our CEO, I mean Vice Chancellor, has made $703,418 since our agreement ended in June. It must be nice to not worry about whether you can afford to feed your family this year. That's it from me today. I am Adam Fernandez wishing you all a Happy New Year, and for those of you who celebrate the Lunar New Year, Sinyan Quela.
00:02:06
Speaker
Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the podcast for the new year. We're joined today in the first episode by Ben, the branch president, and Scott, the casuals rep in the bargaining team, just to have a bit of a reflect back on the achievements that we've had last year and the progress that we made in the bargaining and then to sort of look forward to the year to come and what we're hoping to get out
Challenges Faced by Casual vs Permanent Staff
00:02:27
Speaker
of it. Hey, Tony, and welcome back, everyone. I just wanted to start off by asking Scott and Ben, how was your break?
00:02:34
Speaker
Um, yeah, my break was, uh, unemployed. Um, so I've had a lot of time to kind of think about, uh, bargaining and, you know, the university and my academic career. Um, and I was thinking about how, when we raised the issue with the university on abiding by its own protocols to pay a casual staff member, they reassured us that it wasn't a personal thing that I was like not being paid for it. And.
00:03:03
Speaker
Reflecting on that, I understand what they mean, but it seems like what they mean is that they do and regularly do the same to any casual, right? It's an impersonal move. That's just what it means to be a casual, and it's not personal to them, but I spent Christmas watching my savings go down, not getting any leave, not being paid to do the work I'm putting into bargaining.
00:03:27
Speaker
Casuals just aren't paid to do this kind of thing. So that's what I've been reflecting on. As I said to Sophie, it's de-commodified labor, which people think is great, but it's not necessarily great for the bank balance. And Scott, do you know if you're teaching again this semester and by extension from that, when the university might agree to start paying you again for the work that you've been doing all the way through? Yeah, actually I just got my contract yesterday and
00:03:52
Speaker
Ironically, I can't actually sign it because I can't get onto the university IT systems. So I'm going to have to work that out, which is always a fun experience. But I'm glad to say that I will be teaching at Monash next semester. And so I'm really looking forward to that. If only I could do it ongoing. And Ben, how about you?
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. Hey, Tony. Hey, Kate. Yes. I mean, as an ongoing staff member, I had the benefit of a paid holiday leave, you know, which I was obviously pretty grateful for. You know, it's so depressing to hear the way the university treats its insecure and casual workforce.
00:04:33
Speaker
The way that Scott's been treated is appalling. It's really disgusting. It just sort of shows the callousness of the university. Yeah, well, it's not personal, is it? Because they don't care. They just really, honestly, don't care. It's the sort of thing you say when you've bumped into someone's car on the street or something. It's like, oh, it's not personal. You're just in the way. You're sorry, mate.
00:04:57
Speaker
So yeah, I did get a little bit of a breakaway. I got up to Queensland where I hung out with my family up there and had a bit of time in the sun. It was pretty relaxing actually. Yeah, I think it's just like really worth reflecting on the fact that
00:05:12
Speaker
this paid holiday leave that I was able to enjoy that was fought for by unionists over generations, you know, so it's because really of people organizing in their workplace that we're able to enjoy things like holidays.
Bargaining Process Challenges and Clause Reforms
00:05:28
Speaker
So yeah, I was, you know, obviously pretty grateful for that. And yeah, now we're back into enterprise bargaining and we had a meeting yesterday.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think Ben's absolutely right. They just don't really care about individual workers. They care about us in the aggregate. And there's something really striking about the way they treat casuals in that respect. But I'm curious how have your breaks been, Tony and Kate?
00:05:52
Speaker
I was working for Monash over the break. I have a marking contract that carries through the year for a unit that runs year round. So they have to push through a special contract for that so they can continue to pay me because they need me to mark the work that gets handed in. I'm also one of the casuals that has a second job to sort of help get them through these periods where
00:06:14
Speaker
There's no teaching going on. So my break consisted of just Christmas Day because my other job is in retail. But it is what it is. You've got to pay the rent somehow. OK. Yeah, mine's exactly the same working in retail to try and cover that three month break and also just trying to balance how to, you know, pay rent.
00:06:35
Speaker
pay for groceries while also doing a PhD and needing to put so much time into that as well. So yeah, much in the same boat as both Scott and Tony there. What were some of the key challenges that you guys faced as the bargaining team last year?
00:06:50
Speaker
Tony, there was quite a lot of challenges even just getting bargaining started as we've covered in some of the previous podcasts. The university took a lot of time getting back to us on our first contact with them to try and start bargaining.
00:07:05
Speaker
You know, they just let that one go through to the keeper. I think it was five weeks for them to even reply to my letter to the chief operating officer requesting formally to begin enterprise bargaining last year. And then of course, once we started actually bargaining in earnest, we found out that there are some things that they just didn't want to talk about. So they haven't wanted to talk about pay or wages at any point of negotiation so far. So that's obviously pretty frustrating from our point of view.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'd agree with what Ben said, like just getting firm commitments on responding to our clauses and giving us clauses or just responses on major issues that we've been raising the whole time. They've known that we want to discuss and they're also in their log of claims, things like job insecurity. Yeah, definitely super frustrating that they're not willing to talk about some of the things in their key log of claims either. So I feel your frustration Ben and Scott on those ones.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, I think like, you know, you can say, oh, well, we're not ready to discuss this particular issue at this particular meeting, but you can't get more basic than pay rises, right? Like that is pretty much the nub of what any enterprise negotiation is going to be about. We're in a cost of living crisis at the moment. I'm sure everyone's aware of what it's like at the moment out there in the rental market or if you're trying to buy groceries at the shops, right? So these are pressing issues for our members and for Monash staff.
00:08:32
Speaker
And they just don't want to talk about it. I think the starkness of that, particularly the pay issue, when it was late last week that the vice-chancellors pay since the beginning of bargaining pushed up past two thirds of a million dollars, that becomes pretty clear why she doesn't need to worry about that. So what about some of the goals that were kicked by the bargaining team last year? Like what does everybody look back on and think, yeah, this was something that we actually had success with and we did well?
00:09:01
Speaker
Maybe I'll start. I think I was really happy with where we got to with drafting some of our clauses. So we presented some really major reforms basically to improve the university. Things like casual conversion, like for job security and professional staff workloads was a really big claim that we pushed through
00:09:24
Speaker
And it was a lot of work, like everyone was kind of wrapping up the semester and, you know, dealing with issues and dealing with management. We're running disputes at the same time. So just getting those things kind of sorted was, I think, a really big achievement for us. Yeah, it was really impressive to see how
00:09:45
Speaker
much work the bargaining team was putting in on those clauses. They're really detailed. There's so much more detail than what management is putting on the table. So congratulations to the bargaining team for actually managing to accomplish that for sure.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think what we're trying to do is present a reform agenda for a better university. And so, yeah, there has been a lot of thought that's gone into it, not just from the bargaining team, but from a lot of members at our university because, you know, it's all of our university and everyone has a stake in this place as a public institution. And I think the majority of our members, you know, they're here because they want to be because they believe in education and they believe in
00:10:26
Speaker
what that represents in our society. So people actually want a university that is a secure workplace, a place that actually cares about its students, a place where we're actually going out there every day to do the best teaching and research that we possibly can. And sometimes it feels like you're fighting with the university management and HR just to actually do your job.
00:10:50
Speaker
I was really pleased of the reform agenda that we put forward. I think it will make for a better university if we can get it adopted. And so really that sort of sets the scene for what we're trying to do now, which is to fight for that reform agenda. And if you've listened to past episodes, you know, one of the goals of the union in negotiations is to really get things moving along quite quickly. Ideally, management would want the same thing. But is that really happening in your opinion as part of the bargaining team?
00:11:19
Speaker
So in my opinion, what management is doing is just trying to run the clock out. They would like to delay negotiations really as long as possible because every fortnight that they don't sign on the dotted line is really
00:11:33
Speaker
an advantage for the university's bottom line. And yeah, more broadly, Kate, I think you're right. They're pretty happy with the status quo. If you look at the sort of changes that they've put forward, they're very minor kind of quibbles around the edges of certain clauses. And they're really basically about making it easier for the university to fire people
00:11:52
Speaker
or to do what it wants. You know, they're mainly about stripping away the rights of workers in our workplace. They're not really about anything to do with teaching or research. And I think that's very telling actually. And so have you gotten much in terms of responses from management about the things that we've been putting forward that all this work and effort on our part has gone into? We've got a lot of kicking the can down the road and a number of no's.
00:12:23
Speaker
So a lot of negativity and not much negotiation potentially, not much kind of bargaining with an aim to agreement. It feels like we're really putting reasonable clauses on the table and they're not really budging on those. It's such a shame to hear that management really is not putting forward anything substantive or making any substantive amendments or
00:12:51
Speaker
proposed changes to what the union's putting forward. If that sort of trend of delaying and delaying continues, what are we as members of the union able to do to kind of push the issue and help the bargaining team that are with management in the room every week?
00:13:07
Speaker
Well, I would say that the next step really for us as a workforce is to take some action.
Considering Industrial Action and Union Efforts
00:13:15
Speaker
So we had a meeting with all of our members. We had a pretty large meeting just before the end of last year where we sort of talked through what's been going on and we explained
00:13:25
Speaker
you know, why things weren't really moving very quickly. And the members at that meeting passed a motion to investigate applying for a protected action ballot, so some kind of industrial action. The university didn't put forward a concrete pay offer or some kind of proposal around job security by the end of January.
00:13:45
Speaker
Now, it's pretty obvious that that's not going to happen because here we are on invasion day recording this and we've got neither of those things and we're not expecting anything next week. So it's likely that we are going to go and talk to members about whether they're interested in applying now for a ballot, a vote on industrial action. Sorry, I was just going to add, I think one of the other things that we
00:14:09
Speaker
maybe kicked off last year and I think would be really great to continue and it is a way that members can get involved is things like stalls. So communicating with non-members in particular, signing people up, holding mass meetings, coming along to mass meetings. We also, just to kind of plug our continuous consultations campaign, we held a rally and I think those kind of actions will probably be a big part of our organizing and activism next year as well.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it can sometimes seem scary to talk to your colleagues about the union. It sort of maybe seems like it's pushy, all that kind of stuff. But from my experience, it's actually pretty easy. Most people really want to change something about their workplace. They're frustrated at workloads, or they're frustrated at being on a casual contract.
00:14:58
Speaker
You know, engaging with your colleagues who aren't members around those sorts of issues and just saying, you know, hey, if you join the union, this is what they're fighting for. Those sorts of conversations are really, really useful to the union because the more people we have as members, the more effective will be at actually winning better conditions. The more representation we'll have, the more management will listen to us, basically.
00:15:23
Speaker
So I think that's one thing, if you're listening to the podcast and you want to do something to help out those people in the bargaining room, talking to your colleagues and asking them to join the union is a really, really big thing.
00:15:36
Speaker
I was going to add that I think it's you're right, Kate, that it is like such a great time to get involved. And that's in part because a lot of the issues, well, at least some of the issues that I hear and we hear as casuals relate to the enterprise agreement and the fact that, you know,
00:15:54
Speaker
there are holes in it or there are ways that management exploits particular phrasings and this is our time to fix that and so getting involved at the root of the cause is really important and that's what we're trying to do with bargaining.
00:16:13
Speaker
And I think maybe one of the things that is going to come back to Black Monash in the arts with this sort of approach they have of just delaying everything is that the longer that this gets drawn out, the more pissed off people are likely to get and the more pissed off they get.
00:16:28
Speaker
you know, that's when they can become involved, that gives them that push to become a bit more than what they had been or to, you know, talk to their friends and talk to their colleagues and start to actually raise their voices a little bit because, you know, the union doesn't necessarily give a shit about one of us yelling out into the ether, but if there's a stack of us doing it and we're doing it at the same time, then that's when they have to start paying attention, especially if we're outside the chance of rebuilding, for example.
00:16:57
Speaker
I'd also just like to add as well, you don't need to be an expert in industrial relations, enterprise bargaining, any of those sorts of things to have a chat to your colleagues. For example, Tony and I knew very little about enterprise negotiations and all that sort of stuff before we started this podcast, but we learned a few things and decided that it would be good for
00:17:22
Speaker
us to share our knowledge with other members so they weren't in the same position as us. So really all it takes to get started is like wanting to
00:17:31
Speaker
get involved. That's really the first step. And also coming to the members meetings when they happen so that you can keep up with what's going on and that you can keep hearing from the people that are in the room. And the same with actually reading the emails that get sent out after every bargaining meeting so that you know what's going on and you can actually see what is happening in the room and what we're trying to do and the pushback that we're getting.
00:17:56
Speaker
So kind of in a similar vein, what's one thing you want people to be aware of or to be on the lookout for in terms of bargaining this year? I think we've got a lot of rewriting to do. So we've got a lot of clauses still in the process of redrafting. But more importantly, I think is organizing work. I think that's going to be a real priority for our branch this year.
00:18:20
Speaker
So that means things like signing up to members and speaking to colleagues, as you've been saying, Kate, about what we're fighting for. I think, or I can guarantee, we'll be setting up stalls. There'll be regular stalls. So come along and chat to us there and maybe even volunteer to participate in a stall yourself, campaigning and organizing. Those are the things we need to help us get over the line this year.
00:18:44
Speaker
And there's a lot of energy in the union movement as a whole, I think. It really feels like we've got the momentum. As Ben said, there's a crisis of the cost of living. Inflation is just absolutely high. People with rents are just really struggling. And I also get the sense that management knows that this is an issue, and they'll get more and more scared as time goes on. They know that it's a different round of bargaining, and we know
00:19:12
Speaker
that too. And I think we can capitalise on that. I mean, I totally agree. Like, I think basically, like, now's the time, really, like, we really need to sort of put our best foot forward as a collective, as a group of staff and colleagues because, you know, this is an opportunity to actually win some gains and some progress. So it's a super important opportunity. Just speaking kind of broadly, the
00:19:42
Speaker
we know and a lot of my colleagues and people I speak to in the university know that the university is not on the right track and we need to fix things and so I think we're trying to turn them around like we're trying to write the course and to avoid like the university getting worse and worse for students and for teachers and researchers and they just seem to be kind of wanting to
00:20:08
Speaker
do nothing basically. And that's really frustrating. So I think a good old poke in the butt would be great. It's kind of important to want a bigger picture than just Monash University, right? Like this place is now at the kind of intersection of big pharma and hospitals and, you know, big science. So Monash University is like an important institution in the post-industrial economy.
00:20:32
Speaker
So we're fighting, I think, for more than just better wages and conditions in our individual workplaces. We're actually hopefully trying to reorganise the political economy of Australia in a more progressive direction. That's certainly my hope in my long-term dreams. I think we all share that as well, just because
00:20:52
Speaker
You know, particularly for me, Scott and Tony, we're all on casual contracts and, you know, we're fighting for wins here at Monash, but we're hoping, you know, we might not work at Monash in the future. So we're hoping that those wins transfer across universities. And if we see Monash win or if we see another university win, it kind of helps universities as a whole. So I think that's a really good point, Ben.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think like with any muscle, using it a little bit, it starts to feel a bit stronger and you feel a bit braver and you feel a bit better. So it can feel really scary to put your hand up in a meeting or to take that first step and talk to a colleague about the union. But once you give it a try, you might find that actually that wasn't so bad, right? That was okay. I remember the first time I ever spoke up in a staff meeting on behalf of my colleagues,
00:21:43
Speaker
I was actually pooing my pants, basically. I was really, really worried. I wasn't going to get hauled into the head of school's office and be yelled at. But it went OK. A bunch of my colleagues came up to me afterwards, and they said, thanks so much for speaking up. I wasn't brave enough to speak up, so I'm really glad that you said something in the meeting, Ben. And that's all it takes sometimes.
00:22:13
Speaker
that first sort of step. And then you're in such a better position from then on to take the next step. So even just to take that first little step, wear your badge in the staff room, talk to a colleague while you're making a cup of tea in the tea room, put up a poster in the elevator, whatever it is, you might find that you enjoy it and you might want to do it again. Or emailing your fellow tutors, that's another good one as well.
00:22:44
Speaker
So just a couple of final things, as we start to head towards industrial action, one of the most important things that you, the members can do, apart from the things we've already spoken about, being part of the union, talking to your workmates and your colleagues and your friends about joining the union, is making sure that your details are up to date, especially your phone and your email address.
Call to Action: Member Involvement and Upcoming Events
00:23:03
Speaker
When we do get to the point of voting to take these industrial actions that we were talking about, this is how you'll be contacted and this is how you'll be able to participate.
00:23:13
Speaker
So you can do this by logging on to the member portal at nteu.au. We'll throw the link for that into the show notes so that you can just have a click and make sure that those details are up to date.
00:23:26
Speaker
You may also notice some cool new colourful bargaining posters popping up around campus about different issues around workloads and job security and work-life balance and restructures. We've got plenty of these at the branch office that you can come and pick up or you can email Monash at ntaou.org.au for a PDF of the posters that you can print out yourself and stick them up where you think they best need to be seen.
00:23:49
Speaker
Many hands make light work and the more people we have putting posters up, the bigger our presence on campus can be felt and the harder it will be for people in HR and people in the upper echelons of the university pretend like we don't exist.
00:24:05
Speaker
And just to plug our all members meeting on the 7th of February, which you should have got a link to in the bargaining updates. But if you didn't as well, email the union. Also in the coming weeks, we're going to do a couple of episodes on industrial action and the process towards industrial action. So if you have any questions about that, please give us an email at myunionrodeaneba at gmail.com and we'll get someone to answer your questions on the podcast.
00:24:34
Speaker
So thank you so much for Scott and Ben for coming here and your continued work on the bargaining team. Thanks, Tony. Thanks, Kate. Yeah, thanks, Tony and Kate. Keep up your good work with the podcast and let's get some wins this year. It's going to be fun. Let's do it. All right. Thanks, everybody. All right, folks, that's it for this episode. Thanks to Kate, Danny, Adam, Bernard and Pod Daddy, Sofio, for all the work they've put into this and we'll catch you next time.
00:25:30
Speaker
I have turned the song of this beautiful end