Transcript
Danny Price: Everyone, welcome. We're going to get started with our episode. This is episode 53. of... typical talk discussions. Just a reminder for you guys. where you know these all these Podcasts are.
Danny Price: You know, right now we're recapping the sermons from Mountain View Fellowship, so... Love if you guys could get a chance to go listen to that sermon by Shane. We're in the middle of a series on Revelation. And this is Revelation chapter 2. So this is the... the letter to the church in Ephesus.
Danny Price: Not the book of Ephesus, but in Revelation. This is kind of like the the letter that John is writing to Ephesus, the church. um Anyways, so Shane. um
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Tell me, is there anything that didn't really make it into the sermon or anything that you wanted to? Before I get into the questions that I had, anything you wanted to just recap or... Maybe re -mention, I don't know if there's anything you... said and you're like oh why did i say it like that
Shane: There's always something I'd say. Why did I say it like that?
Danny Price: Well, yeah, I know, but this is your chance.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: This is your chance to correct it.
Shane: ah You've just never asked me that way, so now I'm like, oh, shoot, what did I say? um Yeah. So I, you know, I don't know how much you want to get into it, but I did actually do, I, I went in down a rabbit hole on the whole. um tolerance thing.
Shane: I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole in my study on on AI. And I don't know if you noticed, but I can't remember what service I did.
Danny Price: Oh.
Shane: but I said it, but I kind of at least started to touch on it. But.
Danny Price: Yep. I was in second. i don't
Shane: Okay, I think it was third service that I i started.
Danny Price: I don't know if it was... i don't know Okay.
Shane: touch on it and um In doing so. um Shoot Danny, I'm just real quick and ask you am I coming through okay on the recording my I...
Danny Price: it sounds fine on if sounds It sounds fine to me.
Shane: Okay, as long as you can tell that it's recording, fine. I'm just not seeing...
Danny Price: It says it's recording. It says it's recording and it sounds good.
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: So yeah, we're good.
Shane: Okay. Sorry about that. Sorry about the interruption. Anyway. um I uh... you know and And the aspect of how our nation, especially our culture, has become so tolerant.
Shane: E. AI is built. you know, to. make us always feel good about ourselves and you know to to just No matter what we choose, no matter what we do, it what it feeds that.
Danny Price: Mmm. Hmm.
Shane: And so so I kind of went down the rabbit hole.
Danny Price: What a great question.
Shane: like
Danny Price: What a great insight.
Shane: Yeah. And I even said that in third servers. I was like, no, it's not. That's not, you know, you're just playing me. you know, so like I, I read a statistic and I don't know how true the statistic is. I didn't dig it. I didn't have enough time to dig into it. So, but it said something like 35%. of people under um 21 Have.
Shane: Had. like, will have answered a survey that they've had a um some sort of romantic relationship with AI.
Danny Price: What?
Shane: Meaning...
Danny Price: Okay, I'm like i'm looking looking this up.
Shane: Yippee. Yeah, look it up. see See if there's any truth to that. um or might And and like I read a bunch of different statistics, so that one might be... B, I might be mixing it up.
Danny Price: Yeah, no You're right. um Study 28. one six percent of adults. Have a... had it claimed.
Danny Price: to have had one romantic or intimate relationship with artificial intelligence.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: ah And they view it as. It's not like a... necessarily like for example like a like it's not all all romantic but it says that yeah an intimate relationship where they felt like the ai knew them better than anyone else
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: Interesting.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Wow, that's terrifying.
Shane: so
Danny Price: Holy cow.
Shane: Yeah. and So when I look at that and I just go, we're becoming a culture that. We're saying that something knew us better than anyone else when really that, like you said, it's no way it really can because knowing someone is knowing them at their worst as well.
Shane: And it's disagreeing with them and it's learning to, to.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: To have... to work through conflict together and and all of that stuff. And, you know, and, but we're becoming a culture that kind of. if If that statistic continues to grow, more and more people are going to be like, well, why would I be in a relationship with people that just cause conflict in my life?
Shane: I'll just have my close relationships be with people who don't.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: So like I said, this is so off topic of the sermon, but I started going down that rabbit hole and I i kind of was going to hit on it a little bit more.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: And then I was like, yeah, I don't have the time for it.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I'm already, I'm already. getting in trouble for going over anyway. So I didn't have time to get into it, but that was definitely a little bit of where some of where my study took me.
Danny Price: No.
Shane: And then if we have time.
Danny Price: And I wonder...
Shane: What's that?
Danny Price: Well, jossa I wonder with with that... Like you said, like if they're going to change the models of AI, because if they're going to notice the the issues it's going to cause in society, because... Yeah, like unless you tell it. like for example, chat GPT or clot or whatever, unless you tell it, please don't.
Danny Price: kid glove. you know nice treat me they just tell to shoot me straight which i had to do to to mine if i ever asked questions because everything is like
Shane: Mm -mm.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: what a great question. Great insight. And I'm like, okay, whatever. And I saw this meme the other day and it was this guy and it was totally like, it was satire. It's like, this didn't happen, but it's like the concept, like, this is so accurate where he sent.
Danny Price: Chat GPT, a picture of his engine and his car completely pulled out. And it was like. you know it's like he had been having a conversation with chat dpt and it's like are you sure that i'm supposed to pull out my entire engine to swap out my uh spark plug and chat dpt was like that's so correct you're right to push back on that you absolutely don't need to you know i was wrong and it's just like it's just like that kind of thing like chat dpt can be wrong very often it is it it always goes oh you're so right to push back great job you're like
Shane: ah
Shane: Yep.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I was like yeah that's
Shane: Yeah, it'll correct itself almost every time if you push back at all. um And we'll even end it sometimes corrects itself in a wrong. It goes in another wrong route, but it, yeah.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: It never fights with you. um Yeah, so anyway, it's... ah Yeah, it's ah it's a slippery slope. And you got just got to be careful with it.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: So.
Danny Price: Anyways.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So cool.
Shane: So anyway, that, and then if we got time at the end, we but one I did study more into the Nicolosians and what that was, and we didn't have time to cover that. And we might not even have time today in the podcast, but.
Danny Price: All right Yeah. We'll see.
Shane: But... yeah so those were kind of the two things i didn't get into that my study took me into
Danny Price: Yeah. we're trying to keep this short and brief and it never is. So if this is the first time you guys are joining us, thanks for.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: Tune in in. Right now, the format, just so you guys are aware, is we're going to go through a few questions that I have assembled. Um, some of them actually, my wife, you know, has helped me assemble most of the time, you know, as we we were a little bit more running full, so full steam last year, I was getting a lot of, um, listener questions, but just because we're just launching back, this is our third episode back from ah from a pretty long break.
Danny Price: We haven't built up a whole lot of questions yet. Kind of our listenership is just slowly. slowly back rising. No problem there. I got great questions.
Shane: yeah Yeah, I like this week.
Danny Price: Maybe not. Maybe not. I'm just i'm just kidding.
Shane: You got some really good questions. you Actually, you do.
Danny Price: We'll see.
Shane: You have some really good questions.
Danny Price: Okay, good. um does It really does help me in service to be able to write the questions down when I can get to listen to the sermon. in person versus if i have to listen to online because i couldn't make it to church it It's really hard for me to concentrate.
Danny Price: on on like writing a question if I'm listening to the podcast or not the podcast, but the sermon recap, you know.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: because we I don't know if you guys know this.
Shane: on the app
Danny Price: You guys all should know this listening. There is a podcast called MVF Sermons, and you can actually go. like listen to the sermons that's what i'm talking about when i reference that so
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Anyways, so we're going to go through the questions now. And if. As I'm reading these questions, if you're like, oh, that's an interesting question, I would have worded that differently. or I have a question on that. surprise you can answer or ask questions that we'll answer in the next podcast so just a heads up you can either send those to me or Shane or just send it to admin at mvfchurch .com.
Danny Price: and we'll get those answered. So anyways. anyways um First question, you mentioned losing lamp stands. is it possible for a church to exist and in quotes, not have a light?
Danny Price: What would that look like?
Shane: Yeah, I mean, I think it is um it is possible for a church to exist and not. be you know shining the light um I don't know if I would say there are very many like that.
Shane: And I think they're that sometimes they're they're kind of dead and they just don't know it yet. um
Danny Price: Hmm. Okay.
Shane: But. um You know... boop Sorry about that. Uh,
Danny Price: No, you're good
Shane: yeah and And there'd be people that would disagree with me on this, right? I don't know for sure if I i could say I have a whole theology on this. um But... You know, churches that get so focused that it's it's just about a relation.
Shane: I mean, ah about religion. And there is no relationship.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
Shane: um Churches that. their doctrine. is completely... non -biblical.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Um, you know they I mean, I believe there are... churches. in the in the sense of the word of you know buildings with people meeting in them um that exists that...
Shane: that are so far off doctrinally, that are so far off of God's word. That um if they're not only not only are they.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Lamp stands, they are pulling people to the darkness.
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: Um. And so, yeah, I think it is possible for a church to still be. officially called a church, but... If.
Shane: You know not shining the light and in some ways honestly pulling people to darkness
Danny Price: Hmm. So... If... I mean, you kind of talked about this. if a quote unquote church is quote, I mean, I don't even know if you, if you would could say this about a church.
Shane: Sorry.
Danny Price: Cause again, we're not John, like. writing like letters to churches, and we can't necessarily stand in that and make that judgment. But... For the. arguments like let's say you're saying a church is losing its lampstand Is that, and I think you kind of touched on this in the sermon. That's not like them. It's not saying you all you have all lost your salvation. It's kind of just saying.
Danny Price: And just tell me if I'm wrong. you're kind of losing the authority. and like jesus is withdrawing his presence and it's It's like the church is no longer as a beacon of light for.
Shane: Yes.
Danny Price: the world. Okay.
Shane: Yeah, yeah, I would say it's as the as a whole that church is no longer a beginning of life. There might even be people within the church who are are still saved. um you know, who who have salvation, but...
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: They're. as a whole, the church has lost its its light.
Danny Price: Got it.
Shane: um So yeah.
Danny Price: which is still a terrifying thing that you know you said about your church. but
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It's not as if he it's he's like damning them all to hell, for example, or something along those lines.
Shane: Yeah, it's not him damning them to hell. it's it's just you know I'll just give an example. I served at a church, of my very first church I served in. Um, Guy hired the pastor hired me to be a children's Pastor.
Shane: Because the school the church backed up to an elementary school. And the church literally had not one child coming on Sundays. So there was not one child coming on Sundays.
Shane: the average The church probably, the average Sunday had about. 20 people. in the service. Um, average age, probably... 70, maybe 65.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: Not one. person. that went to that came to the church on Sunday. lived within five miles of the building.
Danny Price: Wow.
Shane: They they had ah it had slowly been dying over a 40 year period, and it just had a little bit of money in the bank to be able to kind of pay a pastor to preach.
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: um He wasn't even the full time guy there.
Danny Price: But it wasn't a church.
Shane: um
Danny Price: It wasn't.
Shane: Yeah, it wasn't a church.
Danny Price: Like that's.
Shane: It just was.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: people meeting and, and, you know, he was doing his best to preach the gospel and try to get people to mode, but. And nothing, nothing was happening. And, and it just, nobody would, there was, so Lily was shining no light, you know, he, and he was trying to turn it around by hiring me to kind of get me, get, get us back in the community.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: But there's that's a whole story.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: I mean, that turned into a big mess. So.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Peace. So, yeah.
Danny Price: I want to bring up, this is a total side topic, but if me and Hannah were talking about, for those of you listening, Hannah's my wife. We were just talking about this and she was really encouraged. And I thought this was a cool little just tangent.
Danny Price: to talk about this is that why a church is not just preaching. That's a lot of what the church is. A lot of the church is equipping and teaching and you know blah, blah, blah.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's not all the church is. The church is a lot of community. a lot of you know It's communion. It's sharing meals together. it's the hands and feet of Jesus. It's working in the community. And Hannah was just saying at the women's retreat, she was really encouraged because one of the ladies.
Danny Price: sharing just had a... amazing story of how you know she like had no friends and people were really blessing her and there was a certain situation where she was moving and had nothing to furnish her apartment.
Danny Price: And Tanya was actually a big part of this, which is.
Shane: Hmm. Yeah.
Danny Price: By the way, this is Shane's wife.
Shane: Yeah, I know the story really well.
Danny Price: And she literally. said, you know what? I'll just make a registry for you. this Tanya and some other ladies made a registry for this lady. um who is elderly or not elderly, but just older and didn't have a huge network. and it just totally blessed her and she was able to furnish her apartment and
Shane: Yeah, I would say be careful with the word elderly.
Danny Price: Like this lady just...
Shane: I know her pretty well, and she's i think I think she's younger than me, so be careful with that.
Danny Price: I don't know her. Hannah didn't say. Oh. So super, so super elderly, like Shane. i'm just kidding um i don't know who this is so if you're listening you might already know and anyways a really sweet story and just super she was super blessed and just thinking of like wow just this is
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: like God's community at work, just blessing on blessing someone. And the coolest thing about this that Hannah said is like, This all happened and not probably. maybe, you know, 10 % of people on Sunday know about the situation or less.
Shane: Hmm. Yeah.
Danny Price: Like, it's not like something that's like taught from the pulpit. It's like, Hey, look at this cool thing. Like this stuff is just happening. And that's one story. And there's probably another. you know a hundred that i have no idea about i'm just highlighting the one that hannah told me about but meanwhile there's all this stuff happening which i think is really cool
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: that it's the church's. an active body of believers and community and there's obviously a leadership structure and and you know, the church is like an organization but it's cool like how you see that working in the community so Just wanted to throw that in there.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It was neat.
Shane: room. Yep, and you and you are right. It is just one story. I mean, there's story after story after story like that. I find that at least once a month, I hear a story about people who are ministering and serving and doing things that...
Shane: They're just doing it and reaching our community and it's not even a program of our church or anything Good job.
Danny Price: Yeah. And that's the coolest part. It's not like you're paying someone to do that. That's just people who are like, oh, I see I need it.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Let's go meet that need. so Anyways.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Well, cool. Yeah, that was just on the lamp stand. This next one is a little bit more. a little bit difficult It's more like church politic kind of. you know We'll go through it. um How do you reject?
Danny Price: or criticize certain aspects of a church health of a church healthily. healthfully, that's a fut's af fun word, if there really is an issue. um without being someone who is overly critical. and then kind of in that same like train of thought How would you leave a church? for example, if you're drawn to maybe like the reverence or the worship of another church, for example.
Danny Price: um and believe biblically that that'd be a better place for you to be and to worship Jesus. I want to just talk about that because I think you mentioned like... You got to be really careful just rejecting and criticizing every single element of a church.
Danny Price: And I just thought to myself, like, well, what if there is something that is wrong or maybe unhealthy that you should. say something about is there a process to do that and then or and where is the line of like preference for example i just prefer
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: more expository teaching, kind of like what we talked about last week. or I prefer more topical teaching. does do Do preferences weigh into a church? and How would you go about doing that in a biblical way?
Danny Price: If you were going to maybe transition to a different church or stay at the church that you're at because you're like, no, you know what?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's a preference, but it doesn't matter enough.
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: for me to leave.
Shane: Yeah, so I would say, I mean, there's there's a lot to this, right? But I would i would say...
Danny Price: I know yeah.
Shane: you know let's Let's start with be discerning. when choosing a church.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: right so if you're Moving to a new area. Like. You know, really take your time, discern, listen to a lot of the sermons, go through their body. i like I would not go to a church, knowing what I know now in being in ministry, I would not go to a church.
Shane: Did I? couldn't have they if like If they wouldn't let me look at the bylaws, I'd want to look at all the doctrinal statements.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: I'd want to i'd want to really understand. what the church believes, who who they are doctrinally, um because...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: you know It can be easy to church choose a church based on, I like the preferences, but you know um you might be at a church for six months to a year before you get into some of the doctrinal issues that you might have a huge issue with.
Shane: Um, But if you if you ask for it up front and you read it up front. you know, or go to their classes that they offer, all that, you know, then now you're prepared.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: At least, you know, the church you're going to. So start there, be discerning. but When you choose a church, don't just, I liked.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: two sermons from the pastor and I, you know, I love the worship leader and now this is my church, you know, like. If you're a mature Christian, um use some discernment.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: there. um But then once you've chosen a church, I do believe we need to be really careful to not. you know, to make sure it's not based on preferences when we.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: um criticize um So.
Danny Price: How would you go about, like, let's say it's a valid criticism.
Shane: Yep.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: like walk me through Like, walk me through that.
Shane: So then how would I deal with it?
Danny Price: Yeah, how would you deal with that?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And what would be considered a valid... I mean, maybe we go there to what's a valid criticism.
Shane: um Okay, well, valid criticism would be if I felt like they were... straying from God's word. They weren't really teaching. the bible um you know um
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: if they i
Shane: You know, had a maybe situation where. Um... um I'm trying to think. um ah Well, maybe they had. people at a certain level and we kind of talked about this in our spiritual leadership class last week where You know someone who you know is living a like a sinful life.
Shane: But they're...
Danny Price: but Like an elder or a shepherd.
Shane: and some level of leadership.
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: Yeah, you know, um that would be, to me, a very valid thing.
Danny Price: Okay.
Shane: So say let's just say that, right? Let's just take... take the there's someone living a simple life in there in leadership and it's an issue i think your first step is you you go to the elders or in our case the shepherds um you take it directly
Danny Price: True. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Two. Them. And... And you talk about it. If you know the person and you and you can have a... a relational conversation with the person.
Shane: I sure I would start there, but if you don't, it's, it's.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
Shane: I don't, you know, I don't think it's a problem for you to go directly to the the elders. um You know, and like, I think it's, yeah, it's Galatians 6 .1 says, Brothers, if anyone is caught in the transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. So, you know, we we need to do this with gentleness. We need to love and mercy. but you know um We, we, we handle it and, and, you know, maybe something is explained in a way that.
Shane: You. You can go, oh, okay, I get that. That makes sense to me. and you can move on from there. um But if not, then I think you, you know, you Then you got to make a choice based on you know.
Shane: prayer and seeking the Spirit, and and if it's not going to be dealt with, I don't think there's anything wrong with at that point then saying, okay, well, I'm not going to be a part of this church. um And I also don't think there's anything wrong with if someone asks you,
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Tell him saying the real reason. You know, um I think you got to be careful.
Danny Price: Yeah. Sure.
Shane: You know, there again, it should be done with gentleness and grace, you know. um But I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest as long as it's done with gentleness and grace.
Shane: um But if it. But a lot of times you'd be surprised there' there there's more to the... to to what we... Think or see. um
Danny Price: Oh, yeah, definitely.
Shane: when we when we deal with it. um But yeah, either but the issues that are biblical... Let's put it this way. i've never had someone left I've never had someone leave our church over a biblical reason.
Shane: and And I'm not saying there aren't any.
Danny Price: Interesting.
Shane: i I'm not saying we've been ever 100 % biblical as a church, that we've never had you know issues, right?
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: um but But the people who have left. that The reasons I've always heard are prefer preferential.
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: So.
Danny Price: And so, yeah. And so then in that case. i guess and it let's like transition to the next that next part like let's say for example um I prefer. only expository teaching and i'm one of those people who's you know you know what i can't I can't do topical teaching.
Danny Price: If you start teaching topical, I need i need i need to leave.
Shane: Mm hmm.
Danny Price: And that's kind of like a hard line for me. Um, How do you go like. that being a That's a preference. Do you think I think there's like a there's like a two part of this question, I guess. Do you think a should they that person?
Danny Price: just just suck it up and go you know what that's a preference but it's not a a That should not be a primary issue. That's something that you can be okay with because it doesn't say in the bible but as long as you're preaching the word and you if you take it a topical direction or verse by verse you know either way
Shane: Mm hmm.
Danny Price: um So you know you can look at it that way. for that person to suck it up? Or is that a preferential reason where that person might be more? um it might be better for them to leave and to go on to a different church. What's your take on that? And I know, you know,
Danny Price: this might be ruffling feathers. Hopefully if you're listening, this is interesting to you guys, but I'm just, this is kind of just, you know, I'm laying it all out there. Like, what do you think?
Shane: Yeah, i so I would say as much as possible, we should suck it up. Um, for for for preferential things.
Danny Price: Okay.
Shane: um One, I would say, OK, are we talking about a church that now is changing its philosophy and how it did it? Because when you chose it.
Danny Price: Fair.
Shane: And you, and you did the research, if you did the research and you, you know, that's, that'd be a question I asked.
Danny Price: Fair.
Shane: Like someone could come to our church. Like we were doing, we were going through the gospel of um Luke, right?
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
Shane: We did a whole year. So they could come and if they... they don't ask the questions then.
Danny Price: they wouldn't know.
Shane: You know. Yeah, they wouldn't know because then all of a sudden I hit summer and we're doing a topical. So.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: um You know, so I think those are questions mature believers should ask. um But if you I will say this, though. Churches do sometimes change philosophies. And they're not changing their biblical foundation and their structure, but they will change the philosophies.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah
Shane: And if that happens, I... I definitely. You know, like, let's just say expository preaching or let's, oh, you know, okay, here's one I grew up with. um Hymns.
Shane: Versus, um back back then it was, well, yeah, Drunk Mutant Instruments.
Danny Price: drums in church.
Shane: or Or even doing praise songs, you know. um i would I would definitely call that preferential. However, I also get it to...
Shane: it's It's very much, for some people, ah a huge part of what what it means to be in church. you know so I don't think I'd have a problem if people left with grace and mercy and love and said, hey, this is just a really important thing for us.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: We totally get where you're going with it. We totally get why you're doing what you're doing.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: but
Danny Price: Sure.
Shane: in love. We, you know, we still, we want to break bread with you still. We, we, we have fellowship with you, but yeah we're we're gonna probably go over here and do this and now because here's the deal all churches if get that, look, if we make shifts like this.
Danny Price: Yeah, okay.
Shane: There are going to be people who just aren't going with us and, and they know that. And that's, and if they don't know that, well then.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: They're... They're just bad leaders. So, you know, it's just part of what what you expect.
Danny Price: yeah Sure. Sure.
Shane: So I think it can be done well. And if. if a church kind of shifts on you like that, but just to make sure you do it well. You know, I would caution, I think, especially.
Shane: Um. i One of the biggest mistakes parents make or adults make is they make these shifts sometimes only based on their preference.
Shane: and maybe maybe it's the husband, right? And it's like, we've it's got to be expository. and um' ah you know but But his wife has fellowship. his He's got a son in 10th grade who's super involved in the youth ministry.
Shane: um You know, the kids love going to church, but he's going to go.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: He's going to this expository preaching church with the whole church has seven kids in it. And, you know. Uh, Yeah. ah You can really rock your families.
Shane: foundation of faith in doing that.
Danny Price: Yeah. Totally.
Shane: So you got to be really careful. And maybe it's a time to say, Hey, I'm going to suck it up for six more years. and and do this for my kids.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And where I'm going to be calm having conversations with my wife so that.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: kind of preparing her that, hey, i I want us to make this shift when our kids get out of the house or something like that but
Danny Price: Interesting. No, that's a good that's ah that's a good thought.
Shane: So we do need to be careful that way too.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's a good thought um We don't have time, but at some point, I think we've talked about this a little bit in the past, but it would be. cool to talk about just the marks of like the true church and the marks of a good church Um,
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: you know obviously there's a lot and we've gone and like hopefully you're you guys are catching the drift of like what we're really getting at, which is a lot of it is just. are they is it a biblical based church like is it are they teaching the word and is it based off what the bible says but There's still a lot of little nitty gritty details that are hard to.
Danny Price: get through and we're not going to do that now we don't have the time But that was helpful. I like that. um I think the hard thing is, and we'll get into this into in this next question is just. I'm a skeptic and and I'm a critical person. And I think.
Danny Price: that spirit and I definitely have been guilty of this. It's just hard sometimes to not look at optimizing. and look at, oh, well, why did they do it this way? we should this should This should be done this way. And it's almost hard to...
Danny Price: Have a healthy amount of that because once you give into that a little bit it's hard for that not to take over your entire Just... personality because and everything is never good enough you're never going to say that was great i really love the way that that event went, or I love the way that we do.
Danny Price: this it's so hard when you start focusing on the critical things to start making everything critical and it just it spreads and when you share that with other people it opens the door for them to start sharing their stuff. And then all of a sudden it's like a whole downward spiral of you're sharing. your stuff you don't like about the church. And then I get it for my stuff. And then it's just, you know,
Danny Price: And they were all just sharing stuff that's like, it's like. Or that could have just you could have just not said anything and gone a different direction with that conversation. but you know. So, that being said... That's just going to kind of lead us into this next question.
Danny Price: How do we change the more consumer culture of church? How do we get people to have the attitude of, and this is like a. kind of like a little so ah like a phrase hopefully this makes sense what i'm saying here here's what we should do as opposed to saying like to you for example you know what you guys should do you guys should do this When I read Acts and I study church history and I'm looking through this stuff, it just seems like there's so much buy -in with the church in terms of like the community and what people are doing. like Everyone's on the same but like team and mission. And they're very unified. like
Danny Price: And I know we're not like a socialist, you know, we're not a socialist situation, but the idea of like having like No one having having any need and everyone sharing everything together. You kind of get this idea like, man, these these people are just taking care of each other and they're doing the work of ministry and they're helping out the sick and the widows and the orphans. and they're all they're all on board and then you look at the church nowadays and you're like, it's. a lot of people And I'm guilty of this. This is not me pointing the finger, but just saying.
Danny Price: you know, a lot of people saying I want to be. poured into, and I want to be entertained or fed. So feed me. Come on, let's go do this.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So how do we change that?
Shane: um Well, you... Start by changing American culture. That'd be. um You know, it's interesting because, right, we're we're doing a study on the seven letters, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And. Each of the churches in these seven -letter strokes with different things based on where they're at. And we're going to talk about that.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Like these things had to do a little bit with the culture they're in.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: Right. And what they were dealing with.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah.
Shane: Um, we The American church, is a there's a culture of the American church because we are in America, just like there was a culture of the Laodicean church because they were in Laodicea.
Shane: church culture of the... Church of Ephesus because they were in Ephesus.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: um So they they deal with certain things, certain sins, certain transgressions and struggles because of where they're at. And. Derp. is a lot that we have to deal with because we are.
Shane: ministering to Americans. And Americans are... Like I just brought it up on Sunday, right? We, we think everything should cater to us. um We think.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: you know shoot When I was a kid... If you were going to buy some chips for a party. You can get barbecue, sour cream and onion, or regular.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: ah You know, now you go to Chip, go buy a but bag of chips. There's 42 different flavors. and And then you can get into like little, you know, ah boutique.
Danny Price: Oh yeah.
Shane: brands, you know, that are, you know, even more and, and we get every.
Danny Price: Cruelty free chips. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. So we get everything exactly the way we want it. That's our culture. so
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Are we going to struggle with it? Yes. I don't think that. any Any American church that is reaching Christian, I mean, reaching non -Christians. is going to struggle with that. Now, if... if you Say, hey, we're just going to so focus on discipleship and we might only reach one person a year or we might not reach anyone.
Shane: Um, you You're going to have less of that you because you can now train. you can focus more time training each individual person and and really training a culture into people.
Danny Price: Mhm.
Shane: um and And I'm not i'm not even...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: um speaking negatively about that. I'm not trying to say that's a bad thing. I think a church has to choose.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Is that going to be important? is Are we going to focus that way enough that... that, yeah, it just means we're we're probably not going to be reaching people. um And we're just going to hope that, you know, our people were training people enough that.
Shane: Duh. cause Because, right, it's a hard balance to go up. also go out and reach people and do that because what happened to the church in Um acts right they yeah, they've broke bread together, they had everything in common, but did they go out like they were supposed to?
Shane: Did they go to...
Danny Price: ah
Shane: Samaria and all the ends of the earth? No, they did not. God had to bring persecution to them um to get them to spread out to become the dispersion.
Danny Price: Mmm.
Shane: um
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: And so they did instead what they got comfortable and they just got like, Oh, it's this we're, we're ministering to each other and we're just doing our thing. We're taking care of you. And they even weren't doing that very well because that's, that's why they had to raise up the deacons.
Shane: Right. Because only the certain.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: people were being taken care of, others were not. So so it's really easy for us to to kind of... utopian the first century church and kind of make it like, oh, everything was just so good and so perfect, but they weren't.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: reaching people until God brought persecution on them. Um. umm they They weren't ministering to everyone. e at equally after a period of time yeah because remember yeah it says that in Acts chapter 2
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: But. Four chapters later, you know, so maybe a month later, maybe four months, maybe a year. I don't know how long that is. But four chapters later.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: We're seeing that some people aren't being taken care of. so All that to say that, yes, we live in a consumer -minded culture. The American church, I believe, is always in a struggle. And then we as a church have to call every church.
Shane: has to choose philosophically. Are we going to be more focused on reaching people and know that we're going to constantly struggle with getting them to really get the buy -in? Or are we going to focus really strong on buy -in? and know that we're going to struggle to actually reach anybody.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: Um, And I would say at a church like ours, right? I mean, we... I would say we have about... Eight. 800 to a thousand adults who call mvf their church Right?
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: they They're not that many every Sunday, but that's about 800 or 1 ,000 that call in and be at their church. I would say we have about 200.
Danny Price: that have buy -in
Shane: That live. that have that buy -in. I would say we have about 200, maybe even more than have that buy -in.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Eh. For my philosophy and what I believe God has called me to. That balance is okay. I'm, ah you know, like.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: like Would I rather see the other? Absolutely. But ah do I believe there's any perfect church doing it? that way no i don't
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. and That's where I'm like. this isn't just i mean i'm thinking this also from like a camp perspective um again just I keep dropping these kind of like things that.
Danny Price: Maybe you know as listeners, I work at Big Canyon, which is a Christian camp. and I'm the operations guy up there. So I. I'm running a team in. similar it's ministry it's not a church anyways that's just the background i see this with up at camp it's really hard to get people to make that transition from i work there or in that in this case i attend here versus like i work here and I'm owning it. And you know for like someone at Mountain View, like ah this is my church. This is my community. This is my like this is my body. This is my fellowship.
Danny Price: Um, I don't know. Yeah, I don't i don't have an answer here. I just know that that's something that I'm working really hard to get. people to see at you know in my job The one thing I'll say that I've noticed.
Danny Price: And I don't know how this translates to church. So maybe you can correct me if, you know, and or just like maybe. guide this a little bit, this analogy, but I've noticed that when people who work at camp.
Danny Price: Um, have This is going to sound interesting, but when they have embarrassment for a bad experience of a guest, that's when I know that they have buy -in. So for example, this is what I'm saying. Let's say.
Danny Price: people come into big canyon and they go into the main event barn that we have and the chairs are all a mess If an employee kind of has this feeling when those when ah when those people come in, like, oh, it's fine. Like it's, you know, someone will take care of that.
Danny Price: they don't really have a lot of buy -in, but if they go in and they're like, I'm kind of embarrassed. Like I wish that. I wish that that was a better experience for you. I'm embarrassed for your experience. And on your behalf, like I kind of, I feel like.
Danny Price: not not guilty but just i just feel embarrassed like that should that should have been better I know that that person at that point has buy -in because they've taken ownership in it and they know that it reflects on them. I don't know if there's a necessarily the same. situation with a church because the church isn't a business and you know blah blah blah but i think there is a level of like You want...
Danny Price: to show Christ to people. And you don't want them to have. a misrepresentation of christ and obviously like it's not all on you to do that but i think at some level like for example a newcomer comes into church and they're looking for
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: you know, They're looking for someone. They're like, they're they're reaching out to someone and no one reaches out to them. If you don't feel like, man, I should really go say hi to that person because man, I know what it's like to be. at a church for the first time. And I want them to feel the love and feel like, and and feel God's and feel like God's, you know, hands and feet here. So I'm going to go over and say hi to them. Like, if you feel that, I think that's a level of buy -in that you're like.
Danny Price: I really care that that person. gets to know jesus and obviously there's a less you know, brand loyalty at a church because it's like the's the capital C church. I'm not saying like it should all be about growing the brand of Mountain View.
Danny Price: But at some level, you want people to experience God's love at your church. so
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I don't know. What do you think about that? Is that a little bit of, is that far off or what do you think?
Shane: No, i think I think that's a great way of saying it. You know, I mean, it... one One thing I'll look at is like um every once in a while someone will spill coffee or something in church, right? and
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: ah And it's... Kind of. cool sometimes when you just see like these random people that
Danny Price: Ha!
Shane: you know, they're, they're not the ones that spilt the coffee, but man, they like, they know where to go, get good paper towels, go and, you know, and get on it and, and take responsibility for helping somebody.
Shane: And, you know, um, that kind of thing, or, you know, like greeters, like.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: sometimes greeters will leave too soon they'll leave their spot too soon you know whatever Or they're distracted. distracted
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: And I'll watch sometimes just there's just random people that they kind of just know or they're they are a greeter, but they're not.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: one that's um scheduled you know and they'll just go grab some bulletins and stand in the spot you know because they they care it matters to them um you know i think we've all
Danny Price: Yeah. Sure.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: They want people to feel welcomed. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah. And then we've all seen those videos as reels of like, it's like. And my church said, bring people to church. make We'll make them feel welcome. And then it shows like their friend that coming to church and there's like it's crickets or or there's people up on stage doing weird stuff, you know, and they're like, oh, no.
Danny Price: Yep, yep.
Shane: And, you know, so like. Like, I know. People that kind of have this like, okay, I, I, I feel comfortable. brand I want to bring my friends here because I know it's a place that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: ah they, they're going to feel comfortable. They're going to feel welcome. They're going to be, but you know, so yeah, I would definitely say that that's a great way of seeing ownership.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: When you see people.
Danny Price: It's not a perfect one for one, unfortunately.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: like
Shane: Now. But when you see people taking that like. That ownership of a level of like, hey, it's it's. This is my church. It's not, and that I always, I get on people for that, right? People will, I call. people that have been coming to our church for like three or four years, and they actually are bought in even sometimes, and they'll still say things like,
Shane: hey, when are you guys going to, or or are are you guys, going you know, doing this?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: or Or they'll refer to it as my church.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Like, you know, there'll be like, you know, your church, Shane. And I'm like, dude, you, you. You -
Danny Price: Are.
Shane: been a part of the church for six years this is our church it's not mine you know so Anyway, and I know people don't, you know, they don't, they just kind of.
Danny Price: Yeah, our church.
Shane: Don't think about it.
Danny Price: Gotcha. Okay, well cool. well good Well, good. That kind of ends like the... More of the church. Well, I guess we have one more question that's kind of like that. But that, for the most part, that kind of ends the church. the church topics.
Danny Price: um
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: But yeah, no, that was good. um Next question. So you hear in scripture so much about suffering well and how to suffer and like not even. you know like paul doesn't even says he doesn't say if you suffer else he says when you suffer so i mean there's this idea like suffering is going to happen
Shane: Mm -hmm.
Danny Price: um How do you prepare for a season of suffering? That may come. and im and And this is where this is coming from in my mind. It's hard for me to. And I put this in in my question. It's hard to, quote unquote, stay sharp when there's nothing you're grinding against to be sharpened.
Danny Price: And I don't know if that makes any sense, but that analogy, but like how. how do you prepare for the battle if it's a time of peace? And I guess, yeah, you could say you could just train for it, but how do you train for suffering?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Do you fast? Like, does that, I don't know if that that that's translating over to you, but like what I'm trying to communicate there, but what?
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: how do you prepare for suffering
Shane: Um, Yeah, I mean, you kind of started hitting on where I was going to go, right? I mean... um the way Someone prepares for a. a grueling event whether it be war or a boxing match or you know something is they They go and they train their bodies for it, right?
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: And they... they they get muscle memory to. to be prepared for things you know um and obviously that doesn't mean You know, we're not called to be praying that God bring us suffering so that we can, you know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: be prepared for the real event or what you know that kind of thing but um you know So there's the basic things of you know we should. Put God's word in our heart. We should be, you know, reading God's word.
Shane: Praying over God's word, memorizing God's word. We should be praying. We should. um we should be building community and fellowship. You know, that's one thing like David. I, ah you you know, we we both know he he just has this passion to see men be in community.
Danny Price: Yep.
Shane: Um... And I think it's because he knows like, hey, if you're not. when When your family goes and gets in trouble or when you've got when you're going through those tough things.
Shane: You're not going to. You're not going to all of a sudden have it.
Danny Price: You got to lean on. Yeah.
Shane: You need people you can be leaning on. And, um and you know, so. Um, those those are things you should be happy. You should be working towards even when times are good. Now.
Shane: That said, I still agree with you. like i'm even I'm like the worst offender on this. I hate it. that Like when things are good, I'm i'm not. I don't pray as...
Shane: fervently and as much. um When things are good, i you know i get I have my habits of reading the scripture, but But I'm not. searching it. See ya. like my own piece if you if does that make sense like like
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: You know, I'm, i meant you know, I'm. always getting more familiar with it with through reading it. but But there's been times in life where I'm like searching scriptures and I'm finding passages that I'm like, oh, I need this so badly, you know, because of things I'm going through.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: So I wish I was better at that. um and i would love to hear from the person the people who are really good at that um
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: But. um You know as far as other ways to stay sharp. I do think. The big thing I would say. is Look for ways to sacrifice.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: the Don't.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I think as Christians in America, we... We look for ways to be comfortable. And I would say. look for ways to sacrifice. the The strongest Christians I know. who endure things well are the ones that...
Shane: put themselves in sacrificial situations. um The ones that... Go and serve people on their. random Saturdays. when they know they'd rather go do something else or they'd rather just you know it'd be easier
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: to go do something else they um They give sacrificially. you know um they Um, What? They give time sacrificially. They serve. um you know, at the church in ways that... kind of they kind of put them out you know because quite frankly let's A lot of people serve at a level that's like, yeah, no, I.
Shane: they almost kind of look at it as um payback. You know, some people serve as like almost like, well, you know, the church does this for me and God's been good. so You know, I'm going to.
Shane: Show up to greet or whatever twice a month and
Danny Price: Sure. But it's not a sacrifice, really.
Shane: Yeah, but they're not like saying, man, I'm going to sacrifice.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I'm going to put in. time and and do things that aren't easy and when i don't feel like going and showing up i'm not going to call and say hey i can't make it i i'm i'm gonna do it you know um so putting ourselves in time to that
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: That we kind of. are ready for sacrifice because we know life is a sacrifice.
Danny Price: Yeah. No I love that. I don't have a whole lot to add to that. I would i would totally agree with... And I was trying to look at a hint into that, like. i guess yeah you can fast and you can do things you can only make yourself as uncomfortable as you know realistic, like you're not going to force yourself into a crisis or into a suffering stage, you know, you don't
Shane: Yeah, you can. If you do, you probably have some mental health issues.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's a little... What is the word? ma Masochistic or whatever. Like you're just looking for put punishment.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I think there is an element too of. Like you said. allowing your, like... you know, allowing yourself to get into those positions of.
Shane: Mm hmm.
Danny Price: of not I don't know about suffering, but for example... It's going to be uncomfortable if I share. the gospel with this coworker at work, because then I might get made fun of.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: I'm just going to do it anyway because bible the Bible says, like, you know, don't hide, you know.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Hydrolyte under a bushel. like I'm just going to let it shine. And I'm just going to tell that person about Jesus. And maybe, you know, it doesn't lead into anything. Maybe it does. And that might. It might unlock a little bit of... You know, people making fun of me.
Danny Price: but so be it whatever i think that i think is a good attitude to have of
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: being willing at least to have suffering in your life, even though it's not going to maybe maybe come via the government or via. you know some other religious organization trying to hunt you down and kill you whatever um
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Anyways.
Shane: You know what? I'm going to i use this opportunity to brag on someone real quick.
Danny Price: Okay, good.
Shane: Um,
Danny Price: Do it.
Shane: Uh, Keith Hash. has been coming to the church for years, and he was one of the guys who got up with the testimony board during Vision Sunday.
Danny Price: Oh yeah, that was cool.
Shane: And. um I mean, he's like someone who I can literally see. Like a... like a visual difference in. over the last four years.
Shane: and um And a lot of it came from one.
Danny Price: That's cool
Shane: He just, he. like He really just turned his life over to Christ in a big way. and But in that. He has. continually put himself in situations that aren't comfortable.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: And like I said, he's not he can't create crisis in his life. He doesn't need to. He's got enough struggles in his life. you know but he's still he's just putting himself in situations that aren't comfortable for him um you know he he's he's going to honduras now now he's totally comfortable in honduras and loves it um But his first trip, you know, he put himself in an uncomfortable situation.
Shane: um he He serves with the youth. I mean, he's like the last guy in the world, I would have thought.
Danny Price: specific
Shane: would go serve with i think he's serving with the middle schoolers if like like it So, yeah.
Danny Price: That's so cool. That's, ugh. God bless him.
Shane: and but
Danny Price: That's so cool. That's really cool. I love that
Shane: but But he went and did it, and he and he's and he's just doing it. any and and and now And, of course, once again, now what is he doing? He's comfortable there. He's one of the most comfortable people in the church around the middle schoolers. but you know um But he just he keeps looking for these situations. And um like he like ive I told him a few months back, I was like, dude, you're you're blessing me because you're reminding me.
Shane: Over. You know what? What's basically the early years of my faith even looked like honestly and uh so anyway
Danny Price: Yeah. Totally. That's cool.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Go Keith. I love that.
Shane: Yeah, go Keith.
Danny Price: Um. I don't know if we'll have time for the last two. We'll see. This last one, we'll try to we'll try to get this one at least. um You talked about this with like tolerance and everything. This is a kind of a doozy of a question. How can you be intolerant to sin while loving a person who is living in sin? or just a sinner.
Danny Price: Um, How does that work? How do you practically go about? not tolerating sin.
Shane: Um,
Shane: You know, if you've ever been a parent, I mean, you're you know, once you If you've ever been a parent of a teenager, chances are you've you've had to go through this.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: Um, you know I've watched every one of my kids. do things that... They knew. I... in no way supported. or allowed or was tolerant of.
Shane: and And even would have to... because it's my role as their parent to give them the consequences now outside of that That's not our role.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: But I would give them the consequences. And. Yet. always made sure they knew. I love them.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And... um Even if they don't feel it, you know, and I remember you know, shoot, at least two of my girls have at many times, not many times, but had times where they would yell how much they hated me, you know, whatever.
Shane: And, and I would just say, you know, back, you know, well, I love you and I don't think you do hate me, but you know, I get, you feel that way, but I love you no matter what.
Danny Price: Sure. Sure.
Shane: And, um, So same you know now translate that into... just dealing with other adults and obviously we are not the ones that should be giving the consequences jesus gives the consequences but
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Um, You know. we, we can love people and let them know how much we love them and care about them, but didn't also say, but Hey, I'm not gonna. umm you know i don't I'm not going to support that. Now, I don't think we have to go around telling everyone in the world what we don't support. either you know um I think that we start with that we love them, and then...
Shane: You know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: if If there's a relationship there to tell them where we're where we're at with what they are doing is. is Fine, but... um You know, i'm not I'm not that person who thinks that...
Shane: um you know we got to hold ah a board up and and say everything we're against and everything and i'm not even i'm not saying i'm against like i know there's some great work that is done by people who you know will
Shane: you know, go on college campuses and, you know, uh, start the conversations about abortion and, um, homosexuality and, and all those things through the science. I. um I'm all for them. I think they that they have a there's a place for that. I don't think that's the calling of everybody, but I also don't think it's the calling of everybody that we...
Shane: don't ever say anything So there is a balance with most people, you know, I think.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Probably most people fall too far on the like. never saying a word about it. And I think, you know, within relationship, we should be saying something.
Danny Price: Got it. Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. To that, I would also add ah Let's see here. How do I word this? When you... you have to be I think you have to be careful in relationships.
Danny Price: Because if you, for example, start a relationship with a person. knowing Knowing that they have like a very serious sin. um In this example, I'm just going to go towards... the person that is not a believer. I think if you're a believer, Or if you're not a believer, I think it's a little bit clearer because it's like.
Danny Price: They're not. They don't have the Holy Spirit. They don't, they're not, they don't have salvation.
Shane: Yeah. Yep.
Danny Price: It's a lot harder just to point the finger at them and go like, obviously there's a lot messed up with them because they're living in sin because they're not saved.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So that's different.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I'm talking to this, this example, this is about a person who's a believer who is living in this sinful lifestyle, whatever, or whatever the situation is, has this egregious sin. Let's say. It's a husband, and he has anger with his wife, and he screams at his wife often, and he's not loving his wife well, and he has this sin. If you have this philosophy that I'm going to like. do this like stealth tactic sneak in kind of thing where I'm not going to say anything for like years. And then I'm going to wait for the right time.
Danny Price: When we're sitting around the fire. And maybe we've... you know had some time to talk about other deep things. And I'm like, hey, by the way, I just thought I'd bring up. um You kind of yell at your wife a lot. This is a total just, this is not, this is hypothetical. This has not happened to me. I'm just throwing this out there. My point is.
Danny Price: Sometimes. You probably should have said something a lot earlier on.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And been a little bit more confrontational than trying to wait because at that point he's, you know, I feel like the response would be you waited for so long to say anything and you knew this whole time. Why did. Like, why have you not said something sooner? and have you been okay with it this whole time and now you're just not okay with it? Like, have you been accepting of me and now you're not accepting? I feel like.
Danny Price: a little bit of um not like you should go around every single person that has an issue, you should say something. But I think you should be a little bit bolder, like you said, bolder sooner and say something a little sooner. to people. Not tolerating things and say you know what I'm not gonna tolerate that I know you love your wife better than that man.
Danny Price: You need it you really need to look at. the way Christ loves the church and see how that's laying up with the way you're loving your wife. I think you say that sooner.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I i don't think you wait until. you know, three years go by of you watching this happen and just kind of being a byproduct of it and going, yeah, it's fine. It's no big deal. Or not byproduct, a bystander. of it and just going it's fine whatever and then all of a sudden you know you decide after a long time to have you you've been completed this, this stealth mission of three years.
Danny Price: Now you're going to say something. I don't know if that's the right response. I'm not saying you instantly go out the second you meet someone and do it, but there's gotta be a middle ground between that and waiting way too long.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah, because then they just feel like you pulled the rug out from under them.
Danny Price: Yeah, you're like. What the heck?
Shane: Yeah. Yeah. So I would agree with that. And I think you get to a point in relationships where, and you know, you start small, maybe you don't start with the biggest thing. you know, right away, but you.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And and I think. early on Even to just start with like, Hey. Are you open to some feedback? You know. Ask them. Maybe they're not. Maybe they don't want any feedback. You know, and then you kind of know, okay, well, I mean, I had a friend like that. I had a friend that.
Shane: Quite frankly, he wasn't he wasn't really open to feedback. and and And so the friendship can only go so far. You know, because he and because he called himself a believer, but only wanted.
Danny Price: Yeah. Hmm.
Shane: Only wanted so much. input on his life as far as sin.
Danny Price: Yep. That's fair.
Shane: And. you know and so it was like all right well hey you know what we'll hang out every now and then but you know where i stand on some of this stuff and and we're obviously not going to be very close because i can't
Danny Price: what can What can you do?
Shane: You know, I can't be a part of that So.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. And I love. I've just been falling in love again with reading the gospels. Like it's just so it's so fun to to read the gospels from like, you know, fresh eyes every time.
Danny Price: just because like you're just different things stand out. I just love the way Jesus interacts with sinners. and people that are just totally walking and even people that like the disciples, like he, Jesus somehow finds this way.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I mean, obviously it's God perfect. It's amazing, but I know I laugh at that, but it's really funny just to me. realizing that sometimes but it's like he's able to co not coexist but he's able to be with sinners
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And. Not compromise even a shred on morals or... perfection. and still love them completely with like where they're at. I'm like,
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I... Oh my gosh, like I - Like that's, it's insane. Cause you're like the way he like. All these different people, he says, go and leave your life of sin. Sin no more. He tells them what they should be doing. But at the same time, he looks at people and he loves them completely. You're like, oh my goodness, that's that's insane. because He's not compromising. He's not tolerating. He's not. bystanding and saying, oh, that's fine. Just send away. it's It's no big deal. But at the same time, he's completely.
Danny Price: Um, You know, he's completely. I don't know he's loving i don't know it's it's it's very indescribable he's loving them completely while not tolerating them completely at the same time it's very like it's it's a paradox so
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Tell me when you figure that out. i'll
Shane: Yeah, okay, I'll do that.
Danny Price: I'll try your, auto yeah. Um. You have time for another question. I have one more left in it.
Shane: Yeah, I got time for one more.
Danny Price: Okay. um This one was... one that was more in my heart just because of my testimony and i don't know i've kind of shared this a little bit it's way back on episode one i think i had to re -upload it so if you wanted to go back and listen to that but I... grew up in. a Christian household and a Christian family. and you know, I have that classic where, you know, it wasn't my, it was my, my parents' faith, but it was at my faith and it took me a long time, but eventually I came around and.
Danny Price: you know now i would say fully it's my faith and it probably hit me when i was around 19 or 20 when that when that took place, but I still have that crock pot testimony of. you know, God's been doing a long work in me and it's been a long It's been a long work and I don't have that honeymoon phase.
Danny Price: Of like. the The second that I gave my life to Christ and I turned my life to him and I put my faith in him, I just had so much fire for him.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And I was doing all these works and I was i was witnessing. And i i I don't have that because I was a kid and I had this crockpot slow testimony. So how do you in quotes, and I put this in quotes, because you know,
Danny Price: based off of you know the verse in Revelation 2. um 2 4 it says in revelation 2 4 yet i hold this against you you have forsaken the love you had at first How do I get back to the love I had at first? And again, I'm not reading like myself into this text, but I think it it is appropriate to think about that.
Danny Price: is it Is this applicable at all for me to read into this? Like, how do I get back to my first love if my first love was not like a, I never had that honeymoon phase. I never had that. oh my gosh, I'm just so on fire for the Lord right now.
Danny Price: I've had moments in my life that are more like that, but my my first love, my original experience with Christianity has was not like that. It's been a slow process. I don't know if I did a good job explaining that at all.
Shane: Yeah, that No, you did, actually, and that's a really... that's a really Um... I don't know, insightful and interesting way to think about it. um Because... I think a lot of.
Shane: A lot of gospel preaching. um is definitely not aimed at the person like you. And yet every... time yeah know Every time the gospel is preached, there's usually...
Shane: A proportion of that. congregation that is in your shoes
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: So so it probably, you know, kind of almost reinforces in a negative way for people like, oh, well, maybe I didn't have the right experience or how do I, do you know, so.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Anyway, it just makes me think.
Danny Price: Which i'm not struggling I'm not struggling with that. I'm more just like, how do I get back to the basics if I never, or the not the basics, how do I get to back to the first?
Shane: Yeah, I know you're not. Yeah.
Danny Price: The first situation that my honeymoon when I never had the honeymoon. so to speak.
Shane: Yeah. Yeah, no, I know. it just It just kind of makes me think about it. so um
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: can i can i I'm going to ask you a question, though. like um Do you remember When your faith became your own, like, do you do remember that period?
Danny Price: Yeah, it was a it was a period of years. It wasn't at like a month. um when i was When I moved out of the house, essentially, so I moved out. And I was kind of on my way out by the time I was like 18, 19 anyways. um But when I was hit about 20, 19 or 20 years old, I kind of moved out and started working for camp. And I did Uncharted, which is, for those of you who don't know.
Danny Price: discipleship school that mike smith who's a pastor of centerpoint he ran back when he was at Mountain View Fellowship. It was a nine -month gap year thing. And it was kind of during that, between that first year and second year of camp and that discipleship school. and just some certain things that happened in my life where I started having to really...
Danny Price: wrestle with whether or not I was going to be a Christian because Prior to that, I was a Christian homeschooled kid, you know, just like a straight A, you know. you know, very do it by the book kind of person. you know didn't do any drugs, didn't sleep around, didn't do any of that stuff.
Danny Price: And. The only reason at that time I was really going to church is because I was running sound for Mountain Life between the period when I was like 16 to 19 or so. or 14 to 19, I was kind of gotten to sound ministry at mountain life. And that was kind of what kept me going to church. Cause I enjoyed doing that. And I felt kind of some kind of fulfillment in that, but I really was not like.
Danny Price: man, I'm just walking with the Lord and in love with the Lord and desiring his word and desiring to like know things for myself and share share him it was kind of i was kind of in this dead spot and it was like right in that moment of like between 19 and 20 21 where i was like man, am I going to do this for real? And I had a lot of crises of personality and crises of faith. between those years, but it wasn't like a single, like it wasn't like a month. It was like a two to three year period.
Danny Price: I don't know if that answers or that helps like kind of clarify that a little bit.
Shane: Yeah, I know it does. um Okay. Well, I was just kind of curious because I was like... um Thinking like if you could. Think like. How it. You know how it like made you um just if it made you any kind of like big change and like, oh, i my life is...
Shane: is different you know if you if you can remember that
Danny Price: I can look at trends. Like, for sure. my life is different in the way that I love, love, love scripture. I just love, like, I love reading the Bible and it's like, I can see God in it and I just. it's very, it's very cool for me to do that now where it's like, I really do love reading the Bible and it's not like a, like a fake Christian ease thing.
Danny Price: I say, I just love God's word.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I just love God's word because I just feel so. loved by you know i'm saying truly i just i really love reading the bible And I really do. I mean... This sounds weird, but just like, for example, like worship.
Danny Price: for early on for me was it kind of boring and didn't mean a lot and being able to like really feel like i'm worshiping god like that's been that like in those years that really made a big deal as being able to worship um finding a place in my, like this was probably the biggest thing.
Danny Price: for me at least, and this is what my biggest takeaway from Uncharted was, is like, I realized I can have a place in the church and I can have a place in God's like. in the church. actively Like I can, I'm feeling a puzzle piece. I can be.
Danny Price: part of the body. And to me, that was like the most explosive, like mind blowing thing for me. Cause you know, you grew up as a kid and it's like, yeah, the adults do the cool stuff. The adults do this. And then you kind of realize when you become an adult or you're in that.
Danny Price: transition phase of like I could I can I can. participate I can contribute and to me that would just blew my mind so like I would say those those three things and a couple other things obviously like you know.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: the grace of God and salvation and just the power of that and just feeling like such a wretched sinner and going, man, I don't deserve this at all, but somehow. that's that's in there too. But I think those three things of being able to worship truly and feel like.
Danny Price: really, really worshipful and not feel bored in worship, feeling like I really enjoy reading the Bible and feeling like I have a place. And God's like. in God's church, I think those three things were the biggest realizations over those three years.
Danny Price: So I mean, maybe those things would be getting back to it, I guess.
Shane: Okay.
Danny Price: I don't know.
Shane: Okay. Yeah. And I guess that's what I'm kind of looking for is like, is there something that you're like, man, I it just. gave me that excitement of that. And I, you know, an excitement, right?
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: I mean, I don't know. and ah Our faith in Christ shouldn't just be based around excitement. um But.
Danny Price: Passion or.
Shane: Enjoy. yeah and Yeah, and just even the purity of it, you know, and that's the other thing I would say is, you know, okay, if you gave your life to Christ as a kid, to think about how does a kid... Love Jesus.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: A kid loves Jesus and it just a real...
Danny Price: Interesting.
Shane: basic, pure way. yeah But I know kids who very much, I mean, I'm hoping every one of my grandchildren. right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Our
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: are going to be kids that just had a very basic pure level. Know Jesus loves them and they love him. And. Do they know exactly what that means?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: No. Do they have good theology about who Jesus is?
Danny Price: ah
Shane: No. Do they get him confused with, you know? mythical creatures yeah you know sometimes they're they're just way off on so but But.
Shane: You know, I... They...
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: they There is just just this innocent love. And so I guess that's what I would encourage people to look for. um and And how do we get to that?
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: I mean, it is it's ah it's a... difficult thing to to really know the best way to do that. um
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: you know, um I guess. Uh... Well, dang it, I kind of got off track. What you were talking about was something i was I was thinking, and I can't.
Danny Price: First love.
Shane: Can't remember what it was. Yeah, I don't remember where I was.
Danny Price: For, um... Honeymoon phase.
Shane: it
Danny Price: Yeah, I'm trying to.
Shane: i didn't want to interrupt you because you were you were obviously uh kind of on uh
Danny Price: Now you're good.
Shane: a role with it. So, but. but Yeah, just that getting back to the... The purity of of it, I think, is is the key. And that is going to look different. for every...
Shane: Single person. um You know, I think. There are some people like, like I would say for you and. but Especially for maybe David. I think, I think you two though, like.
Shane: Your place that you guys maybe struggle to get distracted more than I do is maybe in. your theology. um For me... Mine might be in my doing.
Shane: any more.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: you know although i think all three of us kind of struggle with the doing as well you know like Like, and it and it's not.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And ah both those things are great. They're really good to to do and to know, and they enhance our faith.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: Right? But they can't. The... They shouldn't become what our faith is about.
Danny Price: Right.
Shane: And and that's, I think, just getting back to what it what is it that kind of somehow it goes from enhancing our faith. to becoming the core of our faith. And that's where we we just have to be careful.
Shane: Everybody has their place. For some people, it's... the for some people it's worship you know and and and what's interesting with that is even they I think they get confused because they're like, well, I love worship.
Shane: And so they kind of feel like I do have this love. I do.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: But sometimes they're like, and yeah but you also just kind of love feeling that way. You know, so you got to be careful with that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: And there's so many just ways we kind of get off um and we're all built a little bit differently. And I think that's the main thing. that he's talking about is.
Shane: Get back to.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Shane: And there that's why I made the analogy of your spouse. you know because
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: I... And it is interesting, right? Because... Paul says that... The church is the wife.
Danny Price: The break. Yeah.
Shane: Right.
Danny Price: The bread of Christ. Yeah.
Shane: And he and he is the. the the um groom so You know I just see this all the time in marriages. People that...
Shane: they They kind of... forget that, oh yeah, I'm doing all this because I love this person.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: and and you know And then that's how you watch marriages fall apart. And.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: and And oftentimes it's so sad because they're they're doing it. They're doing the right things. They just. took their eye off the ball.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: and And I think sometimes we do the same thing in our faith.
Danny Price: Interesting.
Shane: We're we're doing the right things. We just... We just take our eye off.
Danny Price: You're taking the eye off the ball.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: but the stuff that matters.
Shane: So. Yeah. So.
Danny Price: Interesting. No, I like that. And again, yeah, that that was a personal question, I guess. So it was a little bit more of that personal flavor. but yeah just to anyone who's wondering that like that's something that i yeah i'm I'm wondering, and that's something that maybe like you're wondering too, of like, how do you get back to that first love if you didn't?
Danny Price: quite have that moment of like realization. um And I think you answered it well. And it kind of brought me to my own conclusion a little bit of like, oh, yeah, but there were things in that phase where it did become my own.
Danny Price: where I was like, huh, you know what? That's interesting. like i Really re enjoyed this and this. and That's it. Yeah. It's an interesting thought just thinking about that.
Shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And hopefully, you know, if you're.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: similar A lot of people have very different testimonies, but if you have a similar testimony, hopefully that's a little bit helpful to you. um a little easier i think to look at that if you had a little bit more of like a abrupt testimony and you know and you were into cocaine and all that stuff and all of a sudden you know Whatever.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Anyways. Um. I, we can talk.
Shane: We were really into homeschooling. So, you know, that homeschooling thing.
Danny Price: The homeschooling life is crazy.
Shane: you know Maybe.
Danny Price: It's a crazy life out there. Um.
Shane: to
Danny Price: It's so funny nowadays like this is total side thing so homeschooling is so popular now like everybody homeschools When I started homeschooling back in like.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: whatever, 1999 or whatever it was like. It was not as like, it was like only. The Fringe. Mennonites homeschooled like it was
Shane: Yes. Yes. oh you you were You were among the OG weirdo kids at homeschool.
Danny Price: Oh. And then nowadays.
Shane: No, man, I was a pastor. And it's like if you had a homeschool kid in the youth group, you're like, oh, man, this kid's going to be such a dork.
Danny Price: No, it's true. and ah and And nowadays they have all these like co -ops and things and like we'll socialize.
Shane: Oh yeah.
Danny Price: I'm like, I had no co -op.
Shane: It's so mainstream now.
Danny Price: Oh.
Shane: Now it's like the cool thing.
Danny Price: Oh, it really is. No, it's it's ah it's still anyways, that's a whole.
Shane: And even so many kids are like, I want to be homeschooled.
Danny Price: All right.
Danny Price: i have so many gripes about all this stuff because i was a kid who was homeschooled i also had celiac so like gluten -free before gluten -free was cool and like all
Shane: Yeah, you...
Danny Price: I had.
Shane: You're a trendsetter, Danny.
Danny Price: i were i It's also not true, but... Yeah.
Shane: ah Hey, I wish this was a visual podcast though, because I would love to put.
Danny Price: Uh...
Shane: that picture of you up that I still keep. That. Hannah showed me. of I think you were like eighth grade or something. the
Danny Price: Oh gosh.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I had like a. I wore sweatpants that were pulled up too high that I tucked my shirt into and white socks until.
Shane: Yep.
Shane: and the way you cut your hair all of it it was awesome
Danny Price: Oh, yeah, it was. it was Yeah.
Shane: No one would have known you grew up to be the the the cool looking guy you are now.
Danny Price: Yeah. No one would have... No. And still not that, but yeah, I appreciate that.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: Um. Anything else to add before we before we close? feel Like...
Shane: I... No. Church of Smyrna this coming week.
Danny Price: Smyrna.
Shane: and
Danny Price: Smyrna. Smyrna.
Shane: Smyrna, Smyrna. I don't know that dude. That's, you know, it's so weird. I, I. I had no idea there are two towns, at least two towns in the United States named Smyrna.
Danny Price: Why would you name your town after Smyrna?
Shane: There's a Smyrna. Smyrna, Georgia. And, um, I think Georgia that, yeah, but Bob and Marina are in Atlanta, right?
Danny Price: Uh, yeah.
Shane: Yeah. So Atlanta, Georgia. so So they have a Smyrna right by them. And then there's a Smyrna, Tennessee that my sister -in -law lives in.
Danny Price: What in the world?
Shane: And I'm like. I'm like, dude, why why would you name your... telling that like if if you read the passage it's like they're under constant persecution
Danny Price: I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you and you will suffer persecution for 10 days.
Shane: ah
Danny Price: Yeah, that's... I want to name my town after that.
Shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's the one right there.
Shane: so I have no idea.
Danny Price: Oh, geez.
Shane: that So I learned something.
Danny Price: Oh, geez, that's... that's interesting yeah i didn't know that either So we're cool. um Well, thanks for listening, guys. If you made it to the end, we're an hour, eight minutes in. So appreciate your patience listening to us.
Shane: Another brief one.
Danny Price: just and Yeah, another brief one. Um, As always, you know we'd love it if you pass this around to different people, if you found anything in this interesting or insightful, especially if people would you know benefit from hearing from this, pass it on to different people. um And yeah, we will.
Shane: Hey, real quick, also on top of the passing it on and top of giving us questions, I would also say, man, we would love your feedback. like
Danny Price: Oh yeah.
Shane: if you like if If there's stuff that you're like. but Hey, you guys need to do this because when you, you know, when you go off in this direction, it's that you know, like give us feedback. We want to make it where people want to listen to it.
Shane: so
Danny Price: shorter longer less questions more questions no questions topics to discuss more guests
Shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Shane: Yeah, any kind of feedback at all.
Danny Price: Whatever. Yeah.
Shane: And we have fun doing this, but.
Danny Price: Now we're...
Shane: You know, more than four listeners it would be great.
Danny Price: Yeah, I know. it's
Shane: I'm just kidding. I have no idea.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Shane: we I think we have more than that.
Danny Price: Love that.
Shane: but
Danny Price: Like two more. All right.
Shane: yeah
Danny Price: Anyways. All right, guys. Appreciate it. We will see you guys next week. Same time. Hope you guys see you on Sunday. All right, bye.
Shane: All right Bye.
