Transcript
Danny Price: Welcome, everyone. This is episode 56 of Table Talk Discussion Podcast. I'm here with Shane. For those who don't know me, I did it in the introduction, but I'm Danny Price. By the way, Shane, I think I need to come up with a new introduction. I need think it needs to be like the old voicemails. that They used to do where it's like I say like three words and then you say the other three words And I say three words and you say three words Do you know what I'm talking about?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Like the old voicemails families would use to leave?
shane: For everyone in the family.
Danny Price: Like, hi, you've reached the... blank residence and we are so glad to
shane: but
Danny Price: Um. Anyways. Um. So yeah, episode 5056. this is Was this the last one on Revelation, or do we you still have more to come?
shane: Oh, no, we still have ah three more. Yeah, four.
Danny Price: ah Why did I think it was only four? sermons.
shane: There's seven.
Danny Price: Oh, no way.
shane: There's seven
Danny Price: Never mind.
shane: So actually we have four more.
Danny Price: I was wrong
shane: We have four more.
Danny Price: and we have We have a lot.
shane: Yahweh.
Danny Price: Yeah, so we have four more. Sermons of Revelation.
shane: Basically, it it takes us to our Christmas series.
Danny Price: Gotcha. In Christmas, we're going to talk about the end of Revelation. I'm just kidding.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Um. written Revelation 2. um Talking about the church in... per per Pergamum? Pergamon? forgetting them.
shane: Yeah, Pergamum.
Danny Price: there's different ways There's different ways to say it because I was looking into this. the the the town. is called something different than it was in the bible or they are like it eventually was called something different than it was in the bible in the name is really similar hold on For a moment.
Danny Price: want I wanna make sure I'm gonna say this right.
Danny Price: Pergamon is now what it's called or was or was in present day it's totally different but for a while it was called pergamum and now then it was called pergamon and then now it's bird Bergama. Turkey. So.
shane: Your gamma. gama
Danny Price: Anyways. Bergama.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: um i'm but I'm sure I'm virtually not. If you're Turkish, are you? I don't even know what the language... Turkish people speak, but if you're...
shane: I'll trust you.
Danny Price: VR Turkish, I'm sorry. i'm We're butchering that. Anyways. um So we're in Revelation 2. It was a good sermon. I really liked the sermon. so It was... It was fun to listen to.
Danny Price: Anything before we dive in that you wanted just to... kind of backtrack on and talk about before we kind of dive into my questions.
shane: Not too much that we're not going to already get into. um you know As I said, as i said you know even when we started this, one thing one of the reasons it's hard to preach Revelation is there is so much...
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: you know, language that is metaphorical and um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: you know, sets of pictures. so So there are different interpretations. So I definitely kind of. it for There were two different areas where I kind of... only gave a little bit of the options of interpretations because we just don't have time for everything so we if we have time in the questions that we can get into some of that
Danny Price: Yeah. Okay. Um, Yeah, that is it is hard. I feel like... there's a bunch of things in like if you look at commentaries or even like a like your index or like. In the Study Bible, you'll have all the verses like cross -referencing. There's just so much from the Old Testament and certain things in a lot of it.
Danny Price: when it with it being apocalyptic literature it's just it's all of it everything he says is a callback like balaam this and that and the other double -edged sword you know like it's just like oh my gosh like it's just
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: You could spend a long time just trying to like. You could spend an entire sermon just trying to go back and forth between all the references that this section of scripture. is going back like is is referencing back to you could just spend the whole sermon just being like this one is talking about this and this one's talking about like it's a lot
shane: Yeah.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: So anyways. um First... little um question that i had and i was just curious about this as I was listening to you, because it just, it sparked something in me because I've heard this before from other people. I'm like, I don't even know if that's true.
Danny Price: um Does all worship to false gods go to Satan? And the reason we're talking about that is because, you know, you you brought up all the false gods. you know in this this city in pergamum because it says this is where satan's throne is and you kind of tie that into this is potentially where zeus had a throne and some other you know, um greek gods and even you know the worship to the roman emperor but I think it was Trajan was at the time. This was Emperor Trajan. Anyways.
Danny Price: Um. What do you think? Is there a biblical reason to think any of this, that all worship the false gods, whether that be... to money or whether that be to like an actual like. you know. personified deity that people have made up. Is like is it all going just going to Satan, or what do you think?
shane: um I would say yes. in a some in a direct way.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: Some in a non -direct way.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: And let me just give, ah I'm going to read a few scriptures. to back that up. Later on in Revelation chapter nine, it says the rest of mankind versus this is verse 20 says the rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, nor give up the worshiping.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: of demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, and which cannot see or heal or walk.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: so you know here's a place where it's basically saying like hey they were if they were worshiping anything else it was demons it might have been idols but those idols are represented They, you know, buy buy demons. But then.
shane: You know, if you go to Exodus. Three of the... top of the Ten Commandments. Um... God says you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness or anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.
shane: You shall not bow down to them or serve them for I am the Lord your God.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: I, Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children. to the third, fourth generation, to those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to those who love me and keep my commandments. so You know, here God is saying, like, look.
shane: there There are no other gods before me. So there's really, I'm the only God. um So everything else is is a false God.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And then in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, Paul says,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um He says, ah no, I imply that what pagan sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord. and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the cup. of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
shane: Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy?
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: Are we stronger than he? so You know. It seems to be... that the Bible connects and kind of clearly says that, yeah, We, um...
shane: They are. um you know that everything that we worship above God is demons. now You know there's a struggle because Sometimes we worship things, right?
shane: um I mean, I talk about how sometimes we worship our family.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: We put our family above God.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: we put our Well, our family is not, they're not demons.
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: It's not Satan.
Danny Price: Sure. Yeah.
shane: But Satan loves. to
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: distract us. um So you know people are not... I would say there's a small percentage of people that are intentionally. worshiping demonic and satanic.
shane: God.
Danny Price: Got it.
shane: um And then... um The rest, for the rest, it's people who are taking their eyes off of God. whether you know, and they're putting it to other things. um Very little that I would say...
shane: do people think of as they're seeking to stand in direct opposition to God? almost anything that people worship. um You know, but Satan loves to counterfeit God and he loves to add to God um and make people worship these different things.
shane: So so I would say, like in our culture.
Danny Price: See you.
shane: um you know. New Age, right? New Age. I don't know anyone in New Age that, in their mind, they're worshipping... As a... a a demon,
shane: They think they're worshipping most of them, to what I know.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: They think they're worshipping these... these These gods or the earth, they're worshiping these things that just kind of bring out the best in them and best in people. but
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: They. they don't see that it's it's taking away from the worship of god and that you know and that demons are behind it you know i so i do believe demons are behind all those things
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Okay. Ugh. Sorry, how'd he yawn?
shane: and I didn't mean to bore you with my answer.
Danny Price: no that was a good answer i'm tired um
shane: Oh, my God.
Danny Price: I have a question then. Oh, this is, this is a can of worms, but but I just want to get into the, sorry, springing this on you.
shane: See you.
Danny Price: I'm trying to figure out how to format this so it makes sense. This is just kind of a thought that's coming to me, but hopefully this makes sense to those of you guys listening. let Let's say... That I am.
Danny Price: I think I'm worshiping God. But I have a couple things wrong about my theology. For example. I go to church at Mountain View Fellowship and not because of what's taught at Mountain View Fellowship, but personally, I just have this idea in my head.
Danny Price: that God is not a trinity, that God is...
shane: Mm -hmm.
Danny Price: three distinct unique beings and persons and it's separate like there's god the father and he And he might be united with purpose to God the Son. And. to God, the Holy spirit, but they're totally so unique and separate. And it's just not what the Bible teaches. And they're very, you know, they're different and they're one is not the other. and And they're completely...
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I guess, monergistic. You get the idea. I'm just trying to like really hammer that home so people aren't confused.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And I go to church at Mountain View and I worship what I think is that God. And it's the wrong interpretation of God. Is that worship going to God or is that worship going to? Satan or... to nothing i guess and is it useless because i guess what i'm trying to get at is is there where is the line of like what are we allowed to be a little bit wrong about or a little bit confused about and the worship is still going to god is it just a heart issue because then if that's just a heart issue Could you make the argument that the Hindu or someone else is?
Danny Price: trying to worship god too and they're just doing about it in different ways so god's really going to accept the worship of all god good Does that make sense?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: is that Is that kind of a weird?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Sorry.
shane: Oh.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: I guess for me, the answer would come down to, like you said, like, okay, so you talked about, I worship Jesus. I don't believe Jesus is part of the triune. He's a person of the triune God. you know So let's focus there.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
shane: I would say, no, that is not worship to Satan.
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: That is just... not having strong a good theology. and i think a lot of christians don't have good theology and a lot of christians are
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: Or I think that so then we're into the posture of are you seeking to grow in your theology? do you Are you seeking to submit those things to Christ, or are you saying, no, this is what I believe, and I'm not going to change that?
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: I don't care what the Bible says. I don't care what people point out to me. well now you know. You know you and we could get behind cuz right I mean All throughout the Bible, we know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood blood and that there are...
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: There are spiritual realms at work all the time. So, you know, and we can argue and get into. you know Well, is that... Is Satan blinding you is or is that just your own sin nature?
shane: You know, all that.
Danny Price: Mm -hmm.
shane: And I can't, you know. I don't know if we want to open that whole game.
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: But.
Danny Price: no No, that's fine.
shane: oh
Danny Price: i Yeah, just stick with this right here, I guess.
shane: a Yeah, but I think there's a different. Difference in bad theology. And. Oh. like adding things to God. Like I know christian there are Christians who try to, or people who identify as Christians, I don't know.
shane: that's up for God to sort out, who try to mix in New Age teaching.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: There are people who identify as Christians who try. to um You know worship certain things in culture, like like not just like, you know, we all like set family.
shane: I sometimes put my family first.
Danny Price: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
shane: But. but there's a difference between that and like no i don't care what the bible says You know, this is what I'm gonna do.
Danny Price: Got it.
shane: I don't care what God wants, you know?
Danny Price: Got it.
shane: so That, I would say, is... is worshiping a false god and that i think there's
Danny Price: Right.
shane: there's evil forces behind that. But I think there's just an end to that theology.
Danny Price: So if I just say... Okay, so if I just say like... And I guess the line would be. or i don't even know i still don't i'm trying to figure out the line i guess but like if i were to say i god is an energy there is no like father god like you know, father, God, mother, God, whatever.
shane: Hmm. Mm hmm.
Danny Price: It's God is one. God is all. God is us. God, we are a God. Everything is God. Like, you know, that whole like.
shane: Mm -hmm.
Danny Price: whatever. That's a very new AG too. That person is totally but off. off
shane: it
Danny Price: Even though they're... intent, it may may be quote unquote pure, even though none of our intents are really pure, but like they might be thinking they're worshiping God. They're not. worshipping something false. I guess that's my that's my question is.
Danny Price: So you're saying a theological... issue maybe like the Trinity or something that's a little bit confusing is okay. But if you're doing, if you're going that far and saying, God is this, like, you're just so, you're just so far going against scripture that it's.
Danny Price: you're completely wrong, and worship but that worship is not going to God.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: because then I guess my question would next would be like, what about the kid that is. the child that is going to church and they just have a very confused relationship with the trinity or the confused relationship of who exactly are are we praying to when we pray to god are we praying to jesus or the god or the holy spirit and they're just confused That is going to God.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's not something that's like, yeah. Okay.
shane: Yeah, and there again, because it's it's I do believe that they're... Yeah. you You can only know certain amounts at different ages. And yeah, and the intent, see there, and there again, the intent. Of.
shane: i You know, okay, when missionaries go into these... Crazy cultures, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: the They often have spent years... Like having having to fix. a lot of the things that people believe. that that that Like when we were in Uganda, there's a lot of Christians who still struggle with the belief in witchcraft.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: um Because that's what their culture. is taught they grew from it you know they're ingrained with it from the time they're little children so so
Danny Price: Hmm. The witch doctor of the village, yeah.
shane: but But are they... But do they have the right intent? Is their heart seeking to be submissive to God and say, okay, when... The Holy Spirit convicts me of this. I'm i'm open. I'm trying to. you know open that up to him and and let him change me.
Danny Price: Got it. Interesting. um well Cool. Sorry, that was a side thing. i was Not trying to...
shane: Go.
Danny Price: derale I was just like, oh, that's interesting. Um, So... to the to the sermon you talked about balaam and that's kind of a whole thing of balaam and his heresy. Um,
Danny Price: And I'm going to quote it from Revelation just so I'm not. So here we go. Nevertheless, this is verse 14 of chapter 2 of Revelation. Nevertheless, I have... A few things against you. There are some of you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate the food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual sexual immorality.
Danny Price: um so my question is You know, Balaam's mentioned also, not just here in Revelation, but he's also mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude. And that's that that's apart from his original story, which is in Numbers.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um And there's different things that that that in those verses in... Jude and 2 Peter that it talks about with his heresy, so to speak. Does that shed any light on what we have here in Revelation? I don't know if you took the time to look at that.
Danny Price: I got got...
shane: Oh, the second Peter passage.
Danny Price: I got the call. Well, I got the questions to you late, so I didn't know if you had time to... to see that I can pull it up really quick.
shane: Yeah, I looked at him. They do shed a little light. i mean the The key is. you know What's weird is if you read the numbers... Um. If you read the account in numbers, It actually doesn't say that Balaam did that.
shane: It just it says he didn't do the curse. And then all of a sudden it just goes to that the people were turning towards. these other things
Danny Price: i'm gonna google that does it say it later i feel like i remember reading that at one point
shane: But then... But then in chapter 31 of Numbers, Moses refers back to it.
Danny Price: Oh. That's right. Okay, that's what I'm remembering.
shane: And says it. So it's kind of a weird, like, if you just go back and read that part of numbers, you're like.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: okay, well, why is it this guy's fault, you know? um But. Um, But we know, from ba we can tell just from the whole account of Balaam, that even though he had this gift of prophecy, he was definitely not someone who was...
Danny Price: Interesting.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: really seeking to be submissive to God on all accounts.
Danny Price: No.
shane: I mean he got to a place where he knew he had to be.
Danny Price: No.
shane: But. um You know, that wasn't his mindset. so So then when Moses... mentions him in chapter 31. It... it kind of plays it makes sense when you're reading the account that, okay, well, that was the new tactic. them.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: um And, you know, and then second Peter just refers to it as well. Um, But... you know Basically, Balak wanted Balaam to put a curse on Israelites. He wouldn't do that. And so instead, he counseled the people into...
shane: ah into just kind of corruption and compromise. um And you can read about that in chapter 25.
Danny Price: Mhm.
shane: And then, you know, I think it's just that idea. If you can't take God's people down, you corrupt them. You know, yeah if if you can't make people God's people just turn away completely.
Danny Price: Got it.
shane: You. you make them useless.
Danny Price: Yeah. Um, I... forgot about this i mean i remembered it from like childhood but the whole story of the talking donkey and balaam do you remember did you yeah which but for the audience just really quick It's a funny story.
shane: The doggy.
Danny Price: Just sidetracked. So he, three times. Bailick. it tries to get Balaam. to curse the Israelites. and Balaam agrees each time. But then each time...
Danny Price: he like he's like he can't and what he goes he just goes out to proclaim this curse and all of a sudden it's just like blessing that comes out of his mouth and he ends up blessing israel three times and balak's furious because he's like you told me and i paid you to curse. Anyways, this so he's on this journey. Balaam is at. the before one of these times to go curse.
Danny Price: And he's on this journey and he. is On his donkey, and he's... riding along this donkey and invisible to him but very visible to the donkey is this angel that's it says the angel of the lord which then there's that whole argument is that really god or jesus that's
shane: and
Danny Price: They're in like a... what do you call it? A Christophany that's like actually there. But anyways, it just says in the Bible, angel of the Lord is standing there with a sword in his hand, like drawn.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And the donkey keeps going off the side of the path because he doesn't want to run into the angel and get his head chopped off. End. um balaam is furious because his donkey is just you know not obeying which i get it you know you want your donkey to do something that's not doing it And.
Danny Price: it's just to me it's so funny because this is one of those times the bible where like how would you like that's not on my bingo card that this is in the bible but the Over and over, Balaam's just furious as Duncan's just beating it, you know, to trying to beat it to death, essentially.
Danny Price: And the donkey looks back and talk and it says the like the Lord opened up its mouth and it talks to him. And it's like, have I ever been a bad donkey to you? Like he literally like it literally says that essentially in like modern English speak.
shane: fifty okay
Danny Price: Like, have I ever been a bad donkey to you? Like, have you ever known me to not obey? But I'm trying to like I'm trying to save you, dude. And then the Lord opens his eyes and he sees this. angel of the lord with the sword and the angel of the lord says like if you would have come here i would have spread the donkey but it would have killed you where you stand And so again, just.
Danny Price: that is it's crazy that stuff like that's in the bible but like you have a talking donkey who is trying to be like dude lay off me i'm trying to i'm trying to save you
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: which is awesome
shane: Well, and
Danny Price: Um,
shane: Another interesting thing about that stuff is like, you know, there's people that kind of try to say, oh, you know, those those are metaphors. Those aren't really things that probably happen, you know, but.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: then Then you got to look and kind of go, okay, but if it's mentioned... Three different times in the New Testament.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: Like. And it's used as an actual theology. then
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: you know, you You definitely got to believe that. that Jesus did not think this was a metaphor. You know, and if Jesus doesn't think it's a metaphor. then You either got to throw Jesus out.
shane: you know or you
Danny Price: He's referencing the story. Yeah.
shane: Yeah, or you should say hey, you know if Jesus If Jesus believed it, I can believe it bla can believe it too. you know.
Danny Price: Yeah. No, that's that's a great point. that's That's really good. Yeah, it's very easy for people to throw the baby out with the bathwater with the Old Testament. And I'm not i'm not necessarily guilty of this, but it's...
Danny Price: the the tendency is there of like oh that it's old testament doesn't doesn't doesn't apply to us it's like very wrong Very wrong way to look at it. The Bible. um Anyways. So just back to the question, I guess.
Danny Price: The heresy is still the same of basically financial gain. and then by the means of kind of going around what's right. is kind of Balaam's sin. up
shane: Mm -hmm.
Danny Price: So, that being the case... um I googled, you know, the the heresy of Balaam and kind of got into that and on got questions .org, which by the way. If you wanted to get into that, gotquestions .org is a good... ah It's a good website. um and you know a lot of these common questions that you might have asked about a random verse whatever there's an answer to them. I'm not saying they're 100 % right every time. It's definitely not like an infallible source, but it is helpful. Um,
Danny Price: at least to kind of point you in the right direction but Reading through that... It just kind of, you know. summed up that the heresies of balan but amongst that it kind of had to go it had kind of had the idea of liberties taken to their extreme.
Danny Price: in terms of you know sexual immorality and all these things of you know, and financial gain and living amongst the culture in two kind of too close to the way where you're actually being impacted by the culture and you kind of see that here in Revelation 2 with Pergamum.
Danny Price: Um,
shane: Mm hmm.
Danny Price: And it. Also mentions the nickel. like nicolations not i want to say nickelodeons it's just so wrong um then the nicolations They had the same thing. It's like they were getting a little too assimilated into the modern culture and trying to mix pagan practices with Christian principles and things. and So, so they it just gets, it gets me, this is a, sorry, this is a big lead up. It just kind of gave me to this question.
Danny Price: What do you think about? Christian liberties. um Do we take advantage of things that are freedoms in our life that maybe we should be avoiding because they're a little too close? to the current culture. What do you think about that?
shane: I mean, yes, we I think everybody has a tendency to line up one. a little bit to one side or the other. What I mean by that is, you know, um There are some people who can lean. A little bit.
shane: more towards legalism. And then there's some that lean a little bit more towards living immorally.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: um like giving themselves too much freedom, you know, so.
Danny Price: Got it.
shane: I think a lot of that is just kind of based on who what our makeup is, you know, and honestly, if you're someone who leans towards. immoral living, you probably need to be adding, not not worrying about your liberties as much. and seek you know Always constantly seeking to...
shane: be submissive and you know and not
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know ah you know, so that you don't. you don't push it, you know? um And if you have a tendency to be a judgmental person and and be that guy who just always toes the line and and gets mad at everybody who doesn't do everything exactly right.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: and you know and you you you might want to look at and kind of Look at the where God is. is calling you to free yourself up from legalism. you know so
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I think it can go one way or the other. um But I think you know we we have to seek to define our lives. um through the counsel of Scripture, the Holy Spirit, and godly people. you know and use those three things um You know, and
Danny Price: Yeah. Hmm.
shane: If... I... Yeah, the Liberty thing, it's just, it's a really tough one. um because
Danny Price: ah Yeah, I know.
shane: You don't want to be.
Danny Price: I'm sorry.
shane: What's that?
Danny Price: I said, I'm sorry. I know this is a tough question. i'm
shane: Yeah, no, um because.
Danny Price: I'm poking.
shane: Because, well, it's just that you don't want... Two. Use liberty ah as an as a reason and a... ah a justification. for living immorally.
shane: you know um
Danny Price: Right, right. License to sin. Yeah.
shane: Yeah. um Hang on, I wrote a note and I'm actually having a hard time re writinging it reading it. Let me just read this real quick because I think it's a good point.
Danny Price: No, you're good.
shane: Oh, and i that's right. I was just saying. And I think this is you know an area we... Because you talked about where our culture is, you know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And I think we're danger we're in danger in our culture. of especially with within evangelical Christian.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Christianity. um Of. becoming a people that... Wait. um leans towards liberally to the side of immorality. because we're becoming that we're we're buying into as I talked about on Sunday that Idea that well if you love me you accept everything about me and you won't challenge me You won't.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: You know, you won't try to change me. um You know, I mean, you hear. these you know people that you know, try to are you you know if you watch any like of the old charlie kirk videos or these newer groups that do the turning point.
shane: people that they get on campuses and have these, right you hear all the time, these college students will say stuff like, well,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: you know jesus loves everyone he loves everyone where they are blah blah and you know they're just they're totally buying into this you know culture and they're they're people who are saying they want to accept
Danny Price: hard. Yeah.
shane: They want to say it they love Jesus.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: but they're not. accepting the fact that Jesus calls them out of their sin.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So.
Danny Price: but but that that is hard and that's the hard thing too about this with the christian liberties is You know, and this this this is a common theme in the New Testament. Um, Paul goes... a you know, around with this about.
Danny Price: um what is lawful is not always useful. And I want to say it's, I can't, I'm going to mess it up.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I'm not going to say where it is. it's It's in the new Testament. Please Google that phrase. I can't remember the specific reference, but he also talks about, you know, the. weaker brother and the stronger brother when it comes to different things there's there's this element of there are these things that are in the gray that are really difficult to discern.
Danny Price: And, you know. you know Christianity There is. you know culture aside and whatever you know the bible is our ultimate authority and so if the bible is saying not to do something it's like it's pretty clear not to do that. And so I'm not talking about those things. I'm talking about the things like that are very...
Danny Price: in the gray and there are a lot of these things that are it's difficult to discern is this something that we should be you know. doing or partaking in. And I think alcohol is one of those things for a lot of people, you know, because the Bible is so clear about not drunkenness.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And you know i'm ah I'm just using this as an easy example. uh But alcohol is really... a very easy. ah You know. It's very easy to get. addicted to and you can see people who like just give into alcoholism and you're like oh my gosh like what a terrible thing and you know bible's so clear about drunkenness but then you see it doesn't necessarily nowhere does the ball does the bible excuse me outline outlaw i'm stumbling my words nowhere does the bible outlaw drinking in general.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And. It's very interesting that a lot of people, you know. to prevent themselves from you know they'll go into that like shane said that legalism They'll set up those extra guardrails and those they'll go a little further than the Bible says in terms of their own life. And they often want other people to do that as well.
Danny Price: to make sure that they never have you know you can't get drunk if you never drink anything you know obviously so It's a very easy you know setup. Like I'm just going to be a teetotaler. I'm not going to drink at all. And I think that's fine for some people, especially if you know that you struggle with that.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But then that's where the Christian liberties comes in. It's just like, oh my gosh, it's so hard. Where is the line? Because, you know, you can make really good arguments about, hey, you know what? There's really not a lot. of There's not enough benefits to drinking. There's enough danger where just nobody should. And you can make some arguments for that. But then. Are you going to be the one to enforce that to all believers? into take everyone's liberties in that way away from them.
Danny Price: And some churches, you know, we'll try to do that or some. you know, leaders but So that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I hope people are making sure they're. I'm not talking about clear. Sin versus, you know. righteousness i'm I'm talking about things where it's like it's there's a line and It's not.
Danny Price: It's not all you know ultimately. clear in scripture. of where you where you should land on that line and there's things that have nuance which is where a lot of these... you know questions And I think there's some other things. um you know, the the media that you consume.
Danny Price: whether or not you celebrate certain holidays, whether or not you... you know, how you vote, all these things.
shane: Yeah, I mean...
Danny Price: There's a lot of nuance to this.
shane: hall Halloween's coming up right now, right? And this is a big one.
Danny Price: Yeah, and Halloween's a perfect example of this, yeah.
shane: This is a big one for Christians. I totally understand. There are a lot of Christians who are like, I don't want to participate in that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: it has You know, I mean, there are Satanists that love that day and Mawa and, you know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: ah But then there are others. who kind of have the have the mindset of, well, first of all, the origins you know you can actually trace back to you know all of olive and the celtic um,
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: missionaries and there's a bunch of stuff with that so you could talk about well it had a christian origin and then the idea that well when christians remove themselves completely from something
Danny Price: Uh huh.
shane: It. It. can It just turns it more over to evil, you know.
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: yeah So there's two ways, and i but I totally respect both ways. But if you're going to do the, well. If you're going to do the, well, we have liberty to participate. then I do do think you got to watch like well what are you participating in are you rate are you renting like satanic movies on Halloween night and think oh it's just all fun because it's it's Halloween and you know are you
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: you know, letting your kids dress like. evil demons and, you know, and...
Danny Price: Yeah. Hmm.
shane: that that kind of stuff, you know, or are you promoting it as a, you know, letting them dress up as fun things that. You know, shoot, all of our kids play dress up anyway. So it's just like a day that it's kind of like, hey, you get to.
shane: Go out and be dress up. dressed outside, you know, so.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um Hey, incidentally, real quick.
Danny Price: Not that...
shane: Your verse is, that in case anyone's interested, it's 1 Corinthians 10 .23.
Danny Price: ah Go ahead.
shane: All things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial.
Danny Price: Thank you.
Danny Price: Yeah. uh beneficial yeah i think i think my version might have said useful sorry i'm misquoting um
shane: Yeah, useful, beneficial, helpful. They're all three used in different versions.
Danny Price: Yeah. Got it. Well, cool. Yeah, and again, but that's where, so that, yeah, just to. to Shane's point about the Halloween and stuff, things that are not. i mean you might think it might be clear and again the problem is is that everyone who I talked to when it, you know. if you have a really strong stance on these things they're like well it's obviously clear based off of how I read the scripture.
Danny Price: and this is where we have to use you know it's it's hard when you know with these things that we're wrestling with with the interpretation of what does that verse mean when it says you know xyz
shane: okay
Danny Price: um When it talks about drunkenness, when it talks about... um whatever being salt and light you know and are you you know don't lose your saltiness you know redeem these things at the same time you know is it wrong to be participatory and things that some people might.
Danny Price: Um, struggle with, which is very difficult. So i'm I don't have an answer here.
shane: The end.
Danny Price: I'm just more just... letting you guys know this is a struggle that, you know, this is... This is something that everyone's thinking about, especially you know especially people who are... trying to live godly lives and trying to be righteous you know this is not there's not a cut and dry answer with all this stuff. So.
Danny Price: Um. Next question that I had. Talking about heresies. um
shane: okay
Danny Price: If there were, if there was the heresy of Heber or whatever, what are some of the the heresies that Mountain View Fellowship might be up against right now? And I know you're, I'm not reading. Mountain View Fellowship into the text of Revelation.
Danny Price: I'm just... In theory, this is more of a for fun question.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: What would you say we're up against in terms of what we're facing?
shane: Yeah. Well... And honestly, there's nothing wrong with reading it in a little bit. You know, I mean, that's kind of the point, right? Is we want to apply these things.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Um, Yeah, I think there's a few things. One, we are in an interesting area as a church in that because I mean what there's 20 I think it's like 27, 29 ,000 people live that live in Hebrew now.
Danny Price: Uh huh.
shane: and There's only, I think. Four other, three other. um evangelical churches. in the in the whole area.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
shane: um So. As a result of that, we have a lot of people in our kind congregation come from all sorts of different backgrounds.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um from fundamental backgrounds, Pentecostal, LDS. um more evangelical. um So we... we seek to accept everyone as long as we align on primary doctrine but the temptation Is it can be easy.
shane: To start not challenging anything
Danny Price: Huh.
shane: um To.
Danny Price: All are welcome.
shane: You know.
Danny Price: everything is All ideas are welcome.
shane: Yeah, the kind of idea that, well, you know, is that time is that a real core doctrine?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, so so I've just noticed that over the years. we We always have to kind of balance those things.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um And then. that You know, and then obviously, I mean, we live in a culture that that says that we need to accept. every version of Jesus that um
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: I'm sorry. Actually, we're we live we're living in a culture that says we need to accept a. very specific version of Jesus that is not what the Bible teaches.
Danny Price: bright Right, right
shane: Um, And and. and people who want to be included. They want us to include. that the the LDS label as christians
Danny Price: and Yeah.
shane: um And this is a sensitive issue. It's a super sensitive issue you to a point that I don't even.
Danny Price: Oh. Super sensitive.
shane: talk about it like this. From the pulpit, because I just, you know. um It's hard to have time to explain myself the way I'm hoping I can. so um But what we always want to get across is that we love our Mormon friends and family and neighbors.
shane: But the Mormon teaching does not line up. Um. with the Jesus of the Bible. and so the mormon teaching does not worship the jesus of the bible now notice this i very specifically said the mormon teaching I'm not.
Danny Price: Yeah. Oh.
shane: including all the Mormons in that.
Danny Price: this is This is so tough, yeah.
shane: because Yeah, I'm not personally convinced. that there are not Mormons who are Christians.
Danny Price: In spite of, yeah.
shane: I actually do. I do think that there are mormon there are people who would call themselves Mormon still that go to the Mormon church who... who are christians They are seeking to know the true Jesus the best they can.
shane: but they're in a culture that is constantly putting blockades in front of them. and And. distorting the truth.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And they're in a culture that doesn't give them the freedom to ask questions. but So.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know. um So, you know, if you happen to be one of our LDS friends and neighbors here, know that we love you very much, but we also are very clear. We try to be very clear that.
shane: That. We would call that. um the the teaching of the Mormon Church. uh heresy um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And that's, like I said, that's a really sensitive thing.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I know there are some people that this would very much upset to hear it, but I just. you know, if we're gonna ask the question and we can't. i don't think we can beat around it you know we've got to be up front with it um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And and here's what here's what I would say when it comes to the Mormon mormon people. You know, because I have, you know, people ask me, especially people who move here.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: They're always like, whoa. well, you know, Mormons aren't Christians, right? They're, they're for, you know, they, they kind of come at it like kind of attacking of Mormon people. And I'm always like, Hey, you know, let's first of all let's calm down a little bit because that doesn't ever help anything but second I always ask like, hey, And you were talking about like even like little kids when they're praying and they they have their theology mixed up or whatever. but
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: I would say. When you gave your life to Christ, Did you have everything right? about Jesus, like did you know everything about Jesus? Exactly true. And the answer to anyone with common sense is no.
shane: right And in fact, the answer to anyone with common sense is still, I'm still discovering things.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: I am still learning and growing closer to him.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Um, so So I always say, be careful what you say about Mormon, the general Mormon person. But...
Danny Price: Persons, yeah
shane: Okay. But when it comes to the Mormon teaching, what the official doctrines of the church are,
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And what's so funny about that is literally until about 40 years ago, they made it very clear. that they were different.
Danny Price: sooner, I'd say the last 20, 20, 15 years, 15 years ago even.
shane: that they i made it very clear that they...
Danny Price: It was very clear.
shane: Yeah, so
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So they they made a dramatic shift and they're shifting to try to. try to, you know, be the same but i think that's why we even more so have to be careful And not.
shane: be afraid to to Be clear about that. you know And the way I've had this conversation with a couple of my Mormon friends is well when they get kind of ah bugged about...
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Well, we worship Jesus and you worship. I always say.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: you know um So I'll just ask you, you you answer my questions. you know And you've probably heard me say this, but... I'll say, hey, if you were, you know, down in Salt Lake and you met someone. And you told them you're from Heber. And they said.
shane: they said oh you're from hebrew do you know shane And. You said, oh, yeah, I know Shane.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And then that person said, oh, man, his three sons are awesome.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I love his three sons. And you'd be like. I think he only has one son Okay. Well, yeah, but you know, I, he's one of those tried and true born, born and raised Hebrew rights. He, his whole family generationally there. And you're like, ah, I think Shane.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: moved here. Yeah, you know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um You know, at some point you'd say. Hey, we're using the same name. But we're not talking about the same person.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And. I think that's what we have to be careful with.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: There. so So I would say.
Danny Price: No, that's good. that's good
shane: Yeah, so I would say if we're going to talk about heresies, I would say it's just the the carefulness of. Like. not being willing to draw lines. um would just... All sorts of crazy ideas because we have people from so many different backgrounds. But then also, obviously, as the.
shane: you know, we we have to draw some lines with the prevailing. um culture here in in Hebrews. So those would be my two. I don't know if you have any that I'm not thinking about.
Danny Price: Um... I mean, this is the only thing I would think of would be just the heresy of kind of like what he was talking about. Like, again, like the financial gain and like the. Um, consumerism is something that we're always facing.
shane: Mmm.
Danny Price: That's an American thing. I wouldn't say that's Hebrew specific.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: and i didn't necessarily need it to be Hebrew specific, more just, yeah, like. It's easy to fall into the love of money. And again, not just... earning money. It's not the quote is from the Bible is not.
Danny Price: Money is the root of all evil. It's the love of money is the root of all evil. So just a reminder.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: um you know, That's something I think, and it's, we just live in an affluent area.
shane: Yeah, that's... that
Danny Price: It's hard.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: It's we're fighting against. you know consumerism and greed and materialism.
shane: Now, I would say anyone who says they don't have any struggle with. greed or materialism.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: probably is not very self -aware.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: if they're especially if they live in somewhat affluent area
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But in in the United States in general, I mean... it's It's pretty tough.
Danny Price: It's pretty rampant, yeah. But no, I would agree with that with the, you know, with the, with the Latter -day Saint, you know, the Mormon thing. um it's Guys, I know I've talked about this. We're we're working on this. We've been wanting to interview people and talk about this, people that are out of the church, people that are maybe even still a little bit in the church.
Danny Price: and Talk about the differences. I... Me and Shane both have zero interest in a moring a Mormon bashing podcast because it that's just not our heart, neither of us. But there are some clear distinctives. and I bet you even some people have listened, listening to this, who.
Danny Price: or even maybe still in the church or just out of the church, if you heard what Shane just said, you might still disagree with him and be like, no, we still believe in the same Jesus. and We can talk about it. um that's something that we're trying to work we're working on but There is some clear. differences. And. you know, we we can We can hammer through those, but I just want to be clear that, you know, we're not.
Danny Price: out to get the Mormons. That's not the mission of Mountain View at all.
shane: Absolutely not.
Danny Price: Um, And there's...
shane: If anything, we just want want to just love them, as you know.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: neighbors. So, I mean, and you know, the hard part about that is. Shoot. We have a lot of former LDS people in our church that... I mean, they would be super offended if we tried to say We're worshiping.
shane: the same Jesus.
Danny Price: yeah because then why leave
shane: Is there like... Whoa, no, I was deceived. I felt like, you know, all sorts of stuff was taught me wrong. I finally found. the the true jesus so um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So we've got to be thinking about that too.
Danny Price: Nope, 100%. So. but Yeah, yeah i know I agree with that completely. um just for time's sake, just to keep things moving. So I thought this was fun. just the whole white stone thing that you talked that you mentioned it a little bit and then i did some research too because i was curious about that because i was like that's To me, that that kind of stuff is really interesting.
Danny Price: And I found this article. Um, And I did send it, but I just wanted, this wasn't, this was also of a question and more just like a point of interest. So.
shane: Yeah. Yeah, I read the article, but man you why don't you explain it?
Danny Price: yeah Yeah, yeah. So. Back in this time, this again, and Shane mentioned this, there is all these theories. This is one of the theories of why this got mentioned, why the White Stone got mentioned. So, you know, Greeks and Romans were dealing with you know ancient times.
Danny Price: um early, the early centuries. And so anyways, Kings were known to have these this custom where you'd have this white stone. And. it would be broken in half and you would write your name on one side and the other person would write their name on the other side.
Danny Price: Usually this is like some kind of flat stone that people could inscribe upon. And the idea was, is that at any point in time. And again, this was not something that was just done willy nilly. This was like a serious thing. If you would.
Danny Price: you know Go to a friend or someone that you trusted or a king with another king or whoever. You'd have this white stone, write your name, name, and name, break it in half, and then... If that stone, that half was ever produced.
Danny Price: it would almost be like calling in a debt or calling in a favor. And essentially just saying. Remember this relationship. There is a... This is a token of your commitment of friendship and allegiance to me, so to speak.
Danny Price: And. this author of this article, and I can link this article below. essentially is just kind of drawing this connective like This white stone that you have. This is, this is.
Danny Price: You have access to Jesus. as and he calls you friend and you have this inheritance with him. Just again, just kind of. kind of tying in this idea of This is not a far away God. This is a God who has made himself, you know, because of the cross has made himself near.
Danny Price: um and it's so when it says i will also give that person a white stone with a new name on it written only known by the only one who receives it the new name you could try to like you know there's been all this, you know, like Shane had said, there's been all this speculation, but the idea of it is.
Danny Price: There's a new name written on this stone. And this might be your name. This might be Jesus's name. The author of this doesn't really get into that. He just more goes over. the cultural concept was you give a white stone to someone that you're giving access to you as a friend, which I thought was cool. I don't know if you want to comment on any of that, Shane, or, you know, and I know you studied this more than I did. in terms of the other options but i just thought this that was a cool little like oh Like God has made himself near.
Danny Price: And we have access to to to Jesus because of that. So.
shane: Yeah, no, I actually thought that was... um a very valid Um... reasoning i mean uh and with interpretation. but i just like said when i kind of like when i jokingly said like hey everyone agrees that nobody
Danny Price: and Nobody agrees.
shane: agrees. um So I just, kind I personally just. I picked the one I felt like went best with. where I was going with the sermon and, you know, and tried to make it clear, like, hey, I'm not saying this is the only way, but it's definitely one of the ones that is strongly considered.
Danny Price: They're all valid. Yeah.
shane: um but um Yeah, I don't know. It's just so... the that's This is why, because what you what you just said. like There's all sorts of evidence behind it.
shane: And. And yet there's all sorts of evidence behind my.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: The one I presented.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And this is why. So this is just kind of a more of a warning for as you study Revelation in general.
Danny Price: Mm -hmm.
shane: I always say you got to be careful studying and reading. an author on revelation who only presents one view as kind of the right view because this isn't even really important stuff like this is just kind of like It's a cool picture of, it's so in one way or another, we're showing that Jesus is saying,
Danny Price: white stone.
shane: I'm going to welcome you. I'm i'm pardoning you. i'm you know what ah it's It's that relationship.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: He's building a relationship with that.
Danny Price: There's a relationship, yeah.
shane: Yeah, that and that's all it is. You know, all the all the interpretations. pointed to that.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
shane: But as you get deeper into Revelation, you get some people that point, they they make some very specific claims about stuff that, first of all, um some of them that...
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: have already been proven like way you were way off dude um
Danny Price: Yeah, right.
shane: And, you know, so. So, yeah, I just, and it's just so easy to get caught up in it. So, but yeah, no, that's a really good one.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: It's a beautiful, beautiful picture.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: that
Danny Price: It's sweet, and I'm not trying to embellish that.
shane: So.
Danny Price: that's what you know I'll put the link, and and like that's just what the author said.
shane: Nope.
Danny Price: and you know it could be wrong. It could be, it could be what Jesus meant by that. It could not have been. And, you know, obviously Jesus is outside of our culture so that he might've been talking about some other white stone.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: people would have understood. better back then I don't know Um. last oh actually before i get into this this is a total side thing i just had it pulled up um in my separate notes that i had If you get a chance, if you're listening to this, go Google the Pergamum Theater because just visually, it's pretty stunning.
shane: Oh.
Danny Price: Did you see this, Shane?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It's literally the this.
shane: Yeah, I've actually been there.
Danny Price: Have you really? Okay, that's cool.
shane: Yeah, because you know i I mentioned in the first sermon, I've traveled to all seven of these churches. Unfortunately...
Danny Price: That's crazy.
shane: unfortunately That. This was 23 years ago, I think. um And the photos I have are just so bad. And, you know, resolution.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: So I haven't. showing i was like all excited thinking oh i'm gonna show some of my photos and i'm like they're so lame i'd rather just show if i was gonna do that but no i've been to so pergamum and ephesus of the seven
Danny Price: And it's all pixelated.
Danny Price: Haha. Um.
shane: they're the most like there's just a lot of remains there there're that's pretty awesome
Danny Price: Okay.
Danny Price: Yeah, well, Google the Pergamum Theater. because just the the images are just...
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: i'm like You know what? I'm not going to link it because you can just Google it. You're going to see everything I'm seeing in front of me. There's not like a special website that has access to the pictures. um but it's like the steepest theater it could hold like 10 000 people just just think about like how many people that is in like ancient times and how big that would have had to be and like the feat to create that i'm like we're talking like coliseum kind of levels of like holy cow so
shane: Yeah.
shane: Cool. And then also think about um
Danny Price: Anyways, I thought that was cool.
shane: The um... the acoustics of that. because
Danny Price: Yeah. Hmm.
shane: They had to be you know, it was a different. You know, they didn't have any amplification. so
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: They could fit all those people. And and you like I said, if you look at it, it's just so steep. You fit all those people. And even supposedly, even the people at the back.
Danny Price: You can still hear.
shane: could hear. at at that.
Danny Price: That's so cool
shane: Right. So.
Danny Price: That's really cool. And that goes into just... they had to be really strategic without amplified sound back then about how to communicate so I don't know.
shane: Yeah, to get that many people.
Danny Price: That was not a question. Just. Yeah. You got to. yeah you gotta go look at that if you haven't so um Last question, just to end this. um you know Just to bring this to practical practicality.
Danny Price: ah How should we as adults guard against these heresies that we're reading about with Balaam and all this stuff? How do we how do we guard against sexual immorality and consumerism and financial greed and gain?
Danny Price: And. just immorality and you know adopting to the you know the culture around us. Um, versus you know challenging and and um you know redeeming the culture around us what what's our What's our path forward? How should we, how should we guard against this as adults? And I say as adults, just because, you know, as kids.
Danny Price: I'm not saying that kids can't do this too or youth can't do this, but I think as adults, like there's ah there's an onus on us. with our kids and with the people that we're raising and the responsibility that we've been given. Not that kids can't do this as well. I just wanted to. hear it more towards the adult listener.
shane: Yeah. well um I mean, the main thing is check your heart, check your heart, check your heart. i I think it's pretty.
shane: For a lot of us, if we're at all so really if we're really seeking to walk with Christ, and and it's not just something... a label we use and you know we're not you know we're If you're the person who's only going to church.
shane: Once a month you don't open your Bible and you You just use the label Christian.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Well. Good chance checking your heart won't do you good. so fuck good If you're listening to this, um my guess is you're you're someone who's trying to grow.
Danny Price: yeah Yeah, sure. Right.
shane: And so I would constantly say, you know, check just You know, check your heart with behaviors and ask yourself, am I just justifying myself? Am I am I giving myself excuses for how I act and what I do? And, you know, I would say, I mean, I have a couple of times a day where I can think of.
shane: something I say to someone or something I do that I feel like, man, I need to just go clarify that or or you know go ask forgiveness or you know or um you know, something I do that I just like, um I got to repent to God on that.
shane: Like I can't, know you know, necessarily there's not someone involved that I can.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um, go to, but yeah. So, you know, and ask yourself, am I looking for ways to justify my behaviors or, am or am I seeking? ways to submit them.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: So do I want to justify my behaviors or submit my behaviors? You know, I think that's huge.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And then I don't know who did this study.
Danny Price: Uh huh.
shane: um But. um It was some... or a biblical organization that pointed out people that are... that read the Bible.
shane: like only one time a week. the Bible has almost no impact on their life. And if you read the Bible like two times a week. it still has almost little to no impact on your life.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: But people that read the Bible three or more times a week. will They report the Bible having a God's word having a dramatic impact on how they live their life.
shane: And I believe it's because now I have something to check my heart against.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: um you know, and So, you know, for me, it's like, get
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Get into God's word. You know, I mean.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: If someone's reading the Bible. On a day -to -day basis, I honestly think 80 % of what we're talking about is kind of mute. um You know, because it it kind of, they're going to.
Danny Price: Mm.
shane: The Bible's going to guide you. God's Word guides you. If you read the Bible with the right intention and you... you believe
Danny Price: Crazy.
shane: What's that?
Danny Price: So that's crazy, right?
shane: Yeah. And you believe it's God's word, then. It's going to change your heart, you know, and I know that I know in my life, I mean, there's times I get out of God's word.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I mean. you know, there's seasons where I'll go, man, I haven't really been in God's word. And that's coming from, I still admit it at least to preach, you know? So, but you know, I've had, I'll have seasons where I'm like, i I haven't been doing my Bible quiet time in three, four weeks or, and I can just tell a big.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: difference in my life when I start to. You know, only be reading the Bible once or twice a week or, you know, go a week and a half, two weeks without reading it.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: All right.
shane: You know, so um i'm I'm not saying this is someone who gets it right all the time. Someone who's perfect in it all the time. I struggle with there are some people who put me to shame in being in the word, you know, and.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um But. Be in the word. You know, and then the other thing I would say.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: that we just have to be careful of. but you know Like I said, we're becoming this culture that just wants to believe what we want. And I'll just use another analogy if if and I'm going to talk a little bit about this in this week's sermon, I think, but.
shane: You know, if you ask me. to write down like... 20 things that are most important to me in my life. Right. And you say, hey, I really want to know you better.
Danny Price: Mm hmm.
shane: So can you just write down 20 things that are most important to me, you and your life? I'd love to just know those things. And then. You get those 20 things and then you try to spend time convincing me that those actually are not the things that are important to me.
shane: that, or you tell other people those, those things are not important to me at some point.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I'm... I'm gonna start questioning whether or not you actually want to know me.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And I feel like there's a lot of people that do that with God's word. God wrote down. You know, like like sexual morality, we're going to be digging big into sexual morality this week because we're talking. um Is it theory of the church anyway?
shane: But it's the Jezebel spirit, which is basically the sexually immoral spirit.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Hiya, Tira. Yeah.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Worth it. Yeah, Thyatira, yeah.
shane: game. Yeah, so... you know and And it's that idea that, I mean, God's very clear of what he... says is okay and what's not okay and what and we become a culture that wants to justify everything we do sexually and say
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: that, well, God doesn't really care about that, or that was...
Danny Price: it's all It's all good, yeah.
shane: i mean um So, you know, if you want to guard against that stuff, quit justifying the things you want to do.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Yep. Yeah, no, I agree. Now that was well said that was that was really well said Um, yeah again just practically i was just like i want to draw that home a little bit for the listeners of just okay thought this is cool Cool, cool church history stuff, you know.
Danny Price: sucks to be the church in Pergamum or whatever, but no, like that's. Let's actually bring that home. um So that was good. Anything else before we end that you wanted to... Oh, really quick, back up. um you did mention that study i did look it up just in case anyone's wondering chain's not just spouting statistics like we know he does sometimes. I'm just kidding. um Lifeway Research did that study. um about how often a typical week they came up with the three, but then there's this other organization, the Center center for Bible Engagement.
Danny Price: Um, and this is on our, our daily bread ministries.
shane: That's one.
Danny Price: They say the, it's called the power of four is there. And that's like the. coined that phrase, the power of four. is like an organization that they have.
shane: Okay, it was four then.
Danny Price: Um, but no lifeway said three and and center for Bible engagement said four, but yeah, it lists all these statistics. I mean, it says, and again, Okay, you you guys, we're reading the Bible because of obedience and we go we love the Lord.
Danny Price: Not for these things. These are byproducts. So as I read this list, I'm not trying to say.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Do you want to be less anxious? read your you know i I'm not leading from that, but you get the idea. So loneliness drops by 30%, anxiety by 50%, anger by 32%, relational bitterness by 43%, feelings of spiritual stagnation by 60%.
Danny Price: Pornography viewing decreases by 60. Alcohol consumption dis decrease or alcoholism. They kind of make the little, there's a little asterisk there. By 57%, premarital sex but by... by 70%. Faith sharing increases by 230%. Discipleship commitment and increases by 200. And scripture memorization increases by 407%.
Danny Price: Crazy.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So again, we're not reading it for those things, but the byproduct of a sanctified life. and scripture having its mark on your i mean that It's kind of hard to argue with those numbers. so
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: You guys can look that up if you want.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: The power of four is what they...
shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: kind of have coined that so Anyways.
shane: And hey. Incidentally, I don't ever just spew numbers without knowing something.
Danny Price: ah
shane: I just can't remember.
Danny Price: There's a number back there somewhere.
shane: all I bring them up because I'm like, dang, I remember I researched that. like Eight years ago.
Danny Price: ah Have you seen the movie Limitless?
shane: I'm not his leader.
Danny Price: have uh the guy that it's i think who who plays that um But he takes a drug and like yeah unlocks all of his brain. You know what I'm talking about?
shane: Oh, isn't that... um I can't remember his name.
Danny Price: It's Bradley Cooper.
shane: Yeah, Bradley Cooper. Yeah
Danny Price: I just Googled it, but. it's like that would be such a great ability. is like All the things you've ever read or seen, like why couldn't you just recall that to memory like right at the time that you need it? Because that would be be a superpower.
shane: I'm convinced Bob Kortopassi has it.
Danny Price: that
shane: gift.
Danny Price: Oh, yeah. No, he definitely is someone that has that like photographic -like...
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: 15 years ago, I read in that obscure journal.
shane: Yeah. He blows my mind sometimes.
Danny Price: Ugh. It's crazy. Anyways, um that's that's it for me. Anything else you want to add at the end?
shane: Um, No, that's it. Looking forward to this week. um ah It's good. This one's going to be. Yeah.
Danny Price: The doozy.
shane: A little little rough talking about. the sexual immorality. culture.
Danny Price: Do you brief parents on that and go, hey, we're going to talk about weird stuff?
shane: So.
Danny Price: you know, this sermon or.
shane: um You know, that's we've talked about that, and so we should do that this week.
Danny Price: Oh. Okay, I'm glad I said that. guy i did I don't know. Cause you know, there's some junior hires that fit in and you're like, surprise.
shane: Yeah, no, we have talked about like it's a good idea to. beforehand. Um, So we in the announcements, i I actually, now that you say that, i will we will add it to the announcements and that way parents can.
Danny Price: No. Oh, man. of
shane: Keep the kids up.
Danny Price: Right on. Well, awesome.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Well, great episode. We'll see you guys again next week. um as i was totally wrong i for some reason thought it was four episodes in revelation but we're doing seven so we Got a couple more to go, so. We'll see you guys next week. Thank you.
shane: All right, see ya.
Danny Price: Bye.
