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Wise-Hearted Ones: Shedding the False Dichotomy with Marlita Hill
224 Plays10 months ago
Wise-Hearted Ones: Shedding the False Dichotomy with Marlita Hill
As Christian artists, it’s easy to see our artistic practices as separate from our personal faith. How can we begin to integrate our mediums with our ministry? Are these parts of ourselves so separate after all?
Joining Lisa this week is Marlita Hill, a choreographer, multi-published author, and 20+ year educator who serves an international audience in the intersection of faith, art, and entrepreneurship. Marlita is the founder of the Kingdom Artist Institute (KAI), a discipleship program for Christian artists building art careers in the marketplace.
In this conversation, Lisa and Marlita dive deeper into what it means to be wise-hearted, how to wait on God’s timing, and why it doesn’t really matter whether you bloom late or bloom early.
Connect with Marlita via the KAI mailing list and on Instagram at @iammarlitahill. Also, check out her blog and podcast, The Kingdom Art Life.
Website: https://marlitahill.com
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Purpose
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, welcome to Be Make Do, a Soul Makers podcast, where we talk about what it takes to pursue your calling with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom. I'm your host, Lisa Smith, and I'm here with my producer, Danny BH. Hello, everyone.
00:00:28
Speaker
We're gonna continue our conversation about the wise-hearted ones in Exodus and the story of the tabernacle creation as the prototype of the artist's call. In our last episode, we got into the spiritual gifts that God poured out on these wise-hearted ones in their ordination and how they are the same gifts we need to ask for and develop. Those are wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and craftsmanship.
00:00:57
Speaker
If you haven't heard that episode, I invite you to go back and take a listen.
Profile of Marlita Hill: A Wise-Hearted Soul Maker
00:01:02
Speaker
Today, we're going to be talking with Marlita Hill, choreographer, multi-published author, educator, speaker, and founder of the Kingdom Artist Institute. Marlita is an incredible dancer and choreographer, but she is also a living example of a wise-hearted one.
00:01:20
Speaker
She is a soul maker. So there's my example. And I'm really I'm really looking forward to hearing her perspective on the artist call. I'm looking forward to talking to her. She's a really effective teacher and a coach and just a truly grounded person who's a strong model for what it looks like to fully live into who you were created to be, make what you were created to make and do what you were created to do. So let's talk to Marlita. Let's do it.
00:01:57
Speaker
Well, hey, Marlita, thank you for joining me today on the Be Make Do podcast. Hello. It's great to see you. Thank you for having me. It's great to see you as well.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, I have been looking forward to sitting down and talking with you because we have so much in common, I think, around our callings as artists and also having a heart for encouraging other artists to really live into this call that we've been given.
00:02:28
Speaker
I've kind of been a little bit obsessed with what that calling is and what that all looks like and means. So it's funny, I met you because so many people I talked to said, oh my gosh, you have to meet Marlita. Like I would meet somebody and they would say, oh, you've got to talk to Marlita. Oh, you've got to talk to Marlita. So I listened to your podcast and then I called you and I was like, I got to talk to you, Marlita.
00:02:54
Speaker
And I was like, it's so cool to meet you too, because Patrice, love Patrice, Patrice and Lori, they were singing your praises as well. So I was like, yes, please. It's always nice to meet fellow co-laborers.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's what's so cool is it's almost like the more you reach out and connect the more, which can be intimidating, but it actually is really encouraging to kind of have that meeting of the minds and feel, oh, I'm not alone. I'm alone either. And we've had some great conversations together since then.
00:03:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's why I wanted to have you come and have a conversation with you during this season where we're exploring the wise-hearted ones in Exodus 30, the story of the creation of the tabernacle.
Exploring Biblical Artisan Leaders
00:03:44
Speaker
And I've read a couple, not a lot, but our artists and a couple of theologians, I've read pieces about bezelel. Yes.
00:03:52
Speaker
and Oholiab, who were the leaders of the artists. But part of what we're exploring is that, I mean, there were hundreds of artists who were involved in that project. And the Bible calls them wise-hearted. Like that's how the skillful artisan is literally transcribed, is wise-hearted. So that idea of like,
00:04:22
Speaker
meeting, you know, that you're really, really good. Like you have this deep sense of knowledge. It's a skill beyond just like you're good at it and you've really committed yourself on a number of levels to it. But also this deeper, I think it's definitely implied in the text, this deeper commitment
00:04:43
Speaker
and connection of your heart to God's heart. And so they were responding to a call from God that was calling forth all they had to offer, and they brought all that they had to offer. And I think that that is kind of the water's
00:05:01
Speaker
that you and I swim in when we think about artists and think about encouraging artists as understanding that it is a calling and what does that calling look like, specifically to artists who are working in the professional industries, not just in a church or worship setting, but just as an artist. So
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, so that's kind of the setting for this conversation, but I really want to start by talking about you. I'd love for you to share with our audience about your call. You're a dancer, and a coach, and a teacher, and you're a fabulous teacher on your podcast. I love your teaching. Thank you. So anyway, yeah, tell us a little bit about how you kind of found yourself into your
00:05:54
Speaker
call as a dancer first and how all that kind of came to be.
Marlita's Journey to Dance: A Divine Calling
00:06:00
Speaker
Art was never on my mind.
00:06:05
Speaker
God brought art to me. So I, okay, there was this program at my church called BOSS, Building on Spiritual Substance, and they would teach youth entrepreneurial principles based on the Bible. And it was a beautiful couple, Alan Hattie Hollingsworth, who ran that, and they had a resort up in the Idlewild Mountains in Southern California, and it was a retreat center.
00:06:31
Speaker
for Christians and so every holiday and certain days they would have these carnivals and I would go with my trainer and his wife to these carnivals and one day there was this dance ministry there called the Hush Company. Now my family took us to all kinds of cultural things, theater, dance concerts, all kinds of things and that's how I knew I wasn't interested.
00:06:57
Speaker
I enjoyed being with my family, and it was cool. But it wasn't like I never saw it. I don't remember ever seeing it and going, oh my gosh, that's something I want to do. I was a bookworm. I actually wanted to be a psychologist. But 15 years old, there was one weekend at Al Hattie's, and this dance ministry called the Hush Company was about to minister. And I had never heard
00:07:26
Speaker
God speak to me before that. I grew up in a church where I knew God spoke to people, but I thought he spoke to adults, so I wasn't expecting him to speak to me. And I heard this voice say, go watch.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know it was a who. And I thought, I don't want to. And it said it again with just a little more pressing, like go watch.
00:07:57
Speaker
And it said it a third time and each time this voice came, there was this further little pressing. So finally I relented and I went over and I don't know what it was that made me respond to this voice or what, but I finally went, I guess I figured it wasn't gonna leave me alone. So I went and I sat down and I had a little bit of an attitude.
00:08:20
Speaker
I sat down and they started ministering and dance and it was like an elephant sat on my chest. I was transfixed. Tears were streaming down my eyes. I couldn't move. I didn't know what in the world was going on with me. I had seen dance before and I never experienced anything like that.
00:08:43
Speaker
And one of the program mentors, she saw God dealing with me. And so after they finished ministering, she asked me if I wanted to meet them. And I was like, yes. So I went upstairs to pray with them. And then I was at rehearsal on Tuesday.
00:09:00
Speaker
And that is how I started dance. Um, so I danced with the hush company for eight years. Um, and that's where I discovered that I had a gift for dancing and particularly for teaching and choreography. Um, so I started with them at 15. Um, and then I danced with them into my, you know, a very early twenties.
00:09:25
Speaker
And when I was college age, the Lord told me to go to school for dance. And so I did, and that launched a nine year journey of me trying to get into school. It took me nine years to get into a dance school. I finally got into a bachelor's dance program at 27 and graduated at 30. So that is the beginning of my dance life.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's a really incredible story because you are a fantastic dancer. Thank you. I've seen your work and your interpretive capacity and it's just, it's really beautiful and moving and you can, you can really tell that there's so much
00:10:11
Speaker
behind all of that. And it is interesting your story that you go from, yeah, I was exposed to the arts and that's how I knew I wasn't interested, that it wasn't for me. Yeah, it was cool. It was beautiful, but it didn't pull me like that. Yeah. To like being so moved by it that, you know, a couple days later you're in the company and now you're a dancer for the rest of your life. It changed my entire life.
00:10:38
Speaker
and in a dance ministry situation. But then there's this transitional period into kind of feeling called to, okay, go get professional training. But for, I mean, it took you, you said nine years to get into a program? Nine years to get into a program, yeah. So what made you not give up? Like what made you, I mean, that's a strong thing. I tried, many times.
00:11:04
Speaker
Many times I tried, because I was like, Lord, I don't, they, did you tell them that you told me to go to school?
00:11:17
Speaker
Um, no, I tried. I tried to stop and go to, um, my church had started, uh, like a seminary. I tried to go to seminary. I tried to stop, you know, I write about it in my book, defying discord where I say, you know, my family was very creative in their, um, disappointment in my choices. Cause you know, an artistic dream is cute at 21, 22, 23. I'm hitting 24, 25.
00:11:46
Speaker
My friends are getting masters, married, having second, sometimes third children, and I'm floating around with this dream that God told me. And I'm broke all the time, obviously, because I would work these
00:12:02
Speaker
you know, flexible jobs that would give me a chance to go and do an audition or that gave me flexibility to do what I needed to do. I was a writer. I've always been a writer. I was a great speaker because of speech. So my family felt like I was wasting my gifts, but I was like, it has to be dance. It has to be dance. I can't explain it. And I remember
00:12:28
Speaker
One of my family members, I can't remember who it was, but we had gotten into a particularly hurtful conversation. And I was like, I'm not going to let them see me cry. But I went around the corner and just bawled my eyes out. Because I was like, Lord, all I'm trying to do is follow what you said. And he ministered to me. And I'll never forget it. And he said, I'm talking to you about your life.
00:12:58
Speaker
I don't talk to them about your life. So they can't see what you see, right? To them, it looks like you're going off a cliff, you're wasting your life, whatever, right? To them, because they can't see what you see. It's not that they're against you. They don't understand what I've given you. And I was like, oh, okay. And that helped a lot. And he surrounded me with people
00:13:28
Speaker
who did see what God gave me and did speak life into me. And so if it wasn't for those people, when my family didn't have the capacity, it would have been very difficult. But those things in combination, I mean, I still tried to quit several times. It was nine years, oh my gosh, how many notes can you take? Yeah. And you're going from
00:13:58
Speaker
I mean, I think it's also interesting this going from you discover dance within a dance ministry context and having not had any dance training or experience before that. And then you're like, okay, I'm going to go pro and I'm going to do what it takes to go pro. And that's not easy for anybody. And I was older. So yeah. So you've got this. I mean, I do think why,
00:14:26
Speaker
What do you think that's about? Because I think this is tied into your ministry as well, to going into that professional environment as opposed to, like, what was it that was?
00:14:38
Speaker
about your call that was calling you out of that dance ministry arena into a slightly different arena? Yeah, context, yeah. It was totally the Lord. It was totally the Lord putting it on my heart because I wouldn't have pursued it otherwise. I honestly thought dance ministry was my thing for life.
00:15:02
Speaker
Um, one of the things I say is without God, I don't have an art life. This was his idea from the jump and the whole time, all I've been doing is following him. I wasn't thinking about this before he said anything. And it's interesting because, um, in talking to artists so far, I only have like two entry points and, um,
00:15:27
Speaker
of artists. And so some artists' stories that I hear, so far I can only think of two kind of orientations, but some artists, they know their artists when they're young. It's very clear to them when they're young and they grow up knowing that that's a path for them. And their journey
00:15:52
Speaker
in our kind of work is like, Lord, is this okay for me to do it the way I see it? Their journey is navigating through family and social circles and perceptions of what they're trying to do. That's their journey. Then there are other people like me who I didn't know
00:16:14
Speaker
I didn't know this was going to be my path. This path came to me and my journey was constantly like, Lord, show me who this artist is that you say I am. You said I was an artist. So who is this person, right? And so, yeah, I went into that context because he,
00:16:41
Speaker
He led me there. He was the one who said, go to school. He was the one who said, now start talking to these people. And it brings to my mind where, you know, the Bible talks about the Lord enlarging our tents.
00:16:56
Speaker
And that is how I've seen him over my life, enlarge my tent, enlarge the scope of the territory that he's given me to address and experience and be able to play in and grow in. It started with dance ministry. Then he brought my work out into the professional context. So working with dancers in community settings, academic, you know,
00:17:23
Speaker
commercial, those kinds of settings. And then he had me talking not just to dancers, but to artists in general. Right. Then he started adding other stuff. So that's just the trajectory of my life, which I'm sure you can attest to and yours as well, where you start in one place.
Faith and Art: Seamless Integration
00:17:41
Speaker
But if you continue following the Lord, you see him continue like, did you think he would be doing podcasts and writing? No, I did not. None of us. Yeah.
00:17:49
Speaker
But that is the beauty of following the Lord, is that He exposes gifts within you that you didn't know you had.
00:17:58
Speaker
right? And lead you into journeys that you didn't know you had the capacity to go into. So that, that's how my life goes. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're the, my, my trajectory is probably like the exact opposite. Although I did also meet a theater company when I was 15 that was a drama ministry. So I, I have that in common, but yeah, I was that like eight year old.
00:18:21
Speaker
want to be an actor. And then somehow ended up in seminary. So it's kind of like the opposite kind of past each other. But I think that that's, you know, I wish that I, I had your podcast, I mean, we're close to the same age, but when I was in my 20s, that's the same thing that I wish. Yeah. And I think there's something about your journey to that's so powerful for people probably come in from both of those perspectives you talked about, because
00:18:49
Speaker
Going back to the wise-hearted ones, I think that's a prototype for what artists are called to. I don't believe that there is arts ministry and then there's the arts. I think there are the arts, period. God designed it for a reason. We can do other things with it, but this is what it was designed for.
00:19:14
Speaker
I think you have so much security in because it comes from who you are as a person rooted in Christ first. Yes. And then the artist pieces like you talk about in your podcast, that's how you
00:19:32
Speaker
express who you are. That's how you move through the world. That's what you do. And so it kind of, you have that freedom to allow the fullness of who you are to permeate your work in whatever context you are. And then you've got this total freedom. And I think that's the core of that call that God has given to artists, that it actually is
00:19:57
Speaker
kind of a priestly or a prophetic role that requires a lot of submission of ourselves to totally try to surrender ourselves to God's will to then be able to go crazy with our expression and how that shows up. And when I was reading your text last night at the bottom, I forgot what chapter it is, but you have a list.
00:20:23
Speaker
of the attributes that these artists have. And it wasn't just the creative gift. It was all of these other... Yeah, the spiritual gifts for artists. It was the spiritual gifts as well. And so the reason I am so secure
00:20:38
Speaker
in who I am and who God has made me as an artist is because I spent time with him finding out who I was as an artist. And there are aspects that I'm still learning, obviously, but that
00:20:55
Speaker
was a lot of time spent in his presence. Now, some of that was weeping, like, God, they don't, they won't let me in. I think that's common. Yes. And he had to minister to me his vision for me, but others of that haven't been in the weeping. It's been in the communion. And I remember years ago,
00:21:20
Speaker
Our bishop taught us about calling and I'll never forget it. And he taught us, he said, when God calls you, he wants you to do the same thing your mother wants when she calls you.
00:21:34
Speaker
And he said, what does your mother want? And we were like, to come see what she wants. And he said, yes. So I understood when I felt the Lord pulling on me, that was not my time to go do something. That was my time to go and see what he wanted. And when I found out what he wanted, right, as I learned that, and then I went out and did, from what I understood, that was why
00:22:05
Speaker
I had the experience and the assurance that I did and have. Yeah. And that's one of those gifts is wisdom. And I think what you're talking about, that is the seat of wisdom. I was just talking about this with somebody else, being able to ask
00:22:26
Speaker
good questions. One of my favorite prayers with God is just, what question should I be asking God? What question do you want me to ask? To just be able to have the patience to sit and listen. I think as artists, we're all probably very familiar with that feeling of
00:22:48
Speaker
inspiration or I've got an idea or I feel like God is calling me to something and let's go. I've got all the energy but I don't know what to do with it and then I just hit block after block after block and it's frustrating and instead of doing what you're saying, you get that burst of energy, you get that idea.
00:23:06
Speaker
and say, okay, I gotta go and sit and listen. God's calling. My mom's calling. And don't do me wrong. I have become a professional at bumping my body up against doors that wouldn't open. But gracefully and with lots of beauty, I'm sure. I have definitely, because you're right. And I think afterwards,
00:23:35
Speaker
you know, once, once I understood what the Lord wanted me to do, because there's the understanding what he wants you to do. And then there's moving in his timing. And for me, the timing was difficult to wait. And there came a point where I had to say, now, Lord, when you tell me something, can you please also immediately tell me, is that for now or for later? Otherwise, as soon as you tell me, I'm going to go try to do it.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah. Right. So I have learned, you know, over time and spending time with him and understanding how he moves and communicates with me. And, you know, I've learned to cooperate more with his pacing. But before I was.
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah, God's timing is very different. Yeah, I mean, your story, you know, you're talking about the nine years and immediately then I think, you know, the biblical stories of call are all very similar. There's a call and then there's a long period of time. There's a long time. Over and over and over. I realized that like, oh my. Yeah. And in one of my podcast episodes, I say time is an inevitable part of following God. It just is.
00:24:53
Speaker
Because there's so much more preparation and learning to lean on him in order and like you talk in your one of the episodes your podcast.
00:25:11
Speaker
being able to use the gifts that you've already given, like with Moses, and Moses is like, I can't go talk to Pharaoh. Who am I? I don't know. I don't think I have what it takes. And God says, well, what have you got in your hand? You've got that staff. And your whole story about pointing towards what you already have,
00:25:37
Speaker
Yes. But it's like, OK, now God's going to show you how to use that in a new way. And it's really interesting because I was thinking about that. And I remember thinking about a garden and how you have all of these flowers and trees that bloom at different times. You have the daisies and the roses that bloom young. And I think of people who
00:26:06
Speaker
I'm 45 now. And I was like, man, I missed the 20 under 20, 30 under 30 and 40. Maybe I'll get to the 50 over 50. I like that. Let's do that. I've missed them all. But it was interesting because my friend goes, Marlita, you're an oak. And I was like, Oh, so it takes me a long time to blossom.
00:26:34
Speaker
but my roots are strong and they last for generations, right? And it's interesting because whether we quote unquote bloom late or bloom early, there are parts of that path for us to navigate because people who have peaked and bloomed early, they have to deal with now what's the rest of my life about, right?
00:26:58
Speaker
And us Oak people have to deal with, Oh my God, is it ever going to happen? Is it too late? You know, we got to tap into that Caleb spirit. You know what I mean? Um, of, you know, no matter how old I am, I'm going to be as strong when I finally get into it as the day God told, you know, showed it to me. So each of us have our kind of quote unquote cross to bear, whether we peak early and have to figure out the rest of our life or it takes our lifetime.
00:27:27
Speaker
to finally grow into the fullness of what God gave us. Yeah. That's such good wisdom too, because you're right. Those are things that can get people really stuck and really down, especially on that. Well, for both, but to understand, okay, that's just my journey, but there's a lot there that God's going to do with that. Yes.
00:27:54
Speaker
Well, I, one of the things that you and I have talked about, um, is this idea of integrating your art and faith. And, um, and I love the way I actually, I was, I was reading some of my stuff and I realized, oh yeah, I do actually get there at a certain point. But I'm starting with that question, uh, because that was one of my questions. Like, how do I integrate?
00:28:19
Speaker
myself, my artistic self, which feels very at home over here in this theater world and these people get me, this part of me over here. But then there's also my Christian church life and I identify with this community even though they don't necessarily get certain parts of myself, but I feel like I got to keep these pieces separate. Who am I? How do I integrate all of this?
00:28:45
Speaker
But then you kind of talk about that. Like the answer to that is basically wake up. You're already integrated. You are already integrated. There is nothing to integrate. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. So this was something that was really interesting because because of the way I came into art. I don't know art without my faith. And honestly. I don't really know faith without my art.
00:29:14
Speaker
They came up in me together. I was in church, but I'm talking about my personal faith walk, right? Starting at 15 doesn't exist without both of those elements working hand in hand. It was in the context of my art walk.
00:29:32
Speaker
that God matured my faith and it was my faith that anchored and directed my art and helped me understand the deeper things of God, right? So that's all I knew was these two together. So I'm like, what are you talking about? Separate, separate where? That was my experience. And actually I remember
00:29:54
Speaker
when I first started building the Kingdom Artists Initiative, which is now the Kingdom Artists Institute, but when I first started building CHI, I thought that disqualified me because I was like, I don't struggle with that, Lord. But he encouraged me like, no, no, no, you're in the pool telling them, come in, the water's good over here. Like, come, come, it's good, it feels good over here.
00:30:17
Speaker
So anyway, about this integration, yes, it always used to bother me and I didn't understand why for a long time. Every time I would hear integrating faith and art, it would grate me.
00:30:31
Speaker
And finally I came to realize, you know, I understood when Christ redeemed you and I, us, he redeemed us totally and completely. So there is nothing about us if we are Christ and in Christ, then there is nothing about us that that redemption doesn't cover, not one single thing. So there is nothing separate.
00:30:56
Speaker
What I've come to realize is we need to stop separating our practice. So you and I are not separate, but we are separating our practice.
00:31:09
Speaker
And that's what we need to allow to come together. And so my work started out of the Lord showing me and me seeing and talking to artists, what are the things that we think? What are the things that have been said to us that lead us to believe that the only way our faith or art can survive is by separating them in our practice.
00:31:35
Speaker
right it was encouraging artists you can you can stop that work put your arms down and just let it go just let them live with one another because god gave them to you to nourish one another and grow together and experience that fullness that wholeness.
00:31:52
Speaker
And as kind of an image or metaphor, he gave me H2O. H2O, no matter what environment it's in, is H2O. If it's in a hot environment, it manifests itself one way. Esteem, if it's in a cold environment, it manifests itself as ice. If it's in a tepid environment, it manifests itself as water.
00:32:22
Speaker
the characterization it takes on might change depending on the environment it's in, in a way that's germane to that environment. But at its core, it is what it is, and that doesn't change. And so just because at a dance studio, the part of me that manifests and takes primary expression is my artist self.
00:32:51
Speaker
The artist part of myself. That doesn't mean I have to change who I am. I'm not two different selves in two different bodies living two different experiences. No, I'm one body, one experience, many parts.
00:33:09
Speaker
Yeah. And those parts take on expression freely, interchangeably, sometimes at the same time, depending on where I am. So, you know, when I first started CHI, the, you know, that charge was to encourage artists, you don't have to fight against these two. Let them live together. That's God wanting you to experience that wholeness. But recently I've been, I have felt to pivot to more of
00:33:38
Speaker
Okay, now that we know that, how do we live it? What's it look like to actually let those parts work together in our practice?
00:33:54
Speaker
something that I'm wrestling to articulate, but it's becoming very clear. It's like, I think part of what's so confusing is that oftentimes, both in our society and certainly in most Christian settings, art is like, it's nice. It's an enjoyable thing, but it's not essential for a lot of people don't feel about it that way. And I think artists,
00:34:21
Speaker
we feel like it's essential for our being to do, but are hesitant sometimes to understand the, understand the super, superpowers that keeps coming up in different, the superpowers that we have, like the leadership capacity, not to lead in the traditional way, but through ideas and imagination and sparking things like this is actual,
00:34:49
Speaker
leadership like we've had a little bit of conversations about how when I went to seminary I started realizing that my acting training actually equipped me to do
00:34:59
Speaker
ministry in ways that other people didn't have because I learned body movement, what? Improvisation, how does that... But there are skills and ways that we train our brains and even our process, the iterative process of being able to... You try something, you put it out,
00:35:20
Speaker
I receive it, I give you something back. You give me something back. We try it, we learn, and then we try something new. These are just different ways of approaching and leading. And I think that this is something that
00:35:35
Speaker
I feel like God is calling forth artists in this time to lead through ideas and creativity to spark imagination. And the more we can encourage each other to be comfortable in that, the better. But kind of tying it back again to the wise-hearted ones.
00:35:57
Speaker
to see this as a call, like it's a call. Like if you were called to be a missionary or a pastor or a whatever,
00:36:10
Speaker
You know, this instance of the wise-hearted ones of Bezalel being called in Exodus, that is the very first time in the Bible that it says that the Spirit of God was poured out, like the Holy Spirit came on them. That was the first time that's ever happened in the Bible on a person, was on an artist.
00:36:33
Speaker
Like this is an ordination. I'm just, I'm kind of blown away by the possibilities for what would it look like for more artists to be in that space where you are of like, I just am who God created me to be. And I have that freedom to just share.
00:36:58
Speaker
My mind is going so many different ways. I had to really practice discipline not to jump in on you because I was like, yeah, because. Go for it. Okay, one of the things that I remember I wanted to say was, you know,
00:37:15
Speaker
This idea of this is why, first of all, this is why your exploration of the wise hearted ones. And again, I go back to that list because of course I have felt feelings of futility as an artist.
00:37:32
Speaker
as well. Why do I care so much about my dancer getting their arm up on count four? No, I need you to look to the right, not to the left. When we're creating art, we can get caught up
00:37:48
Speaker
in very, very, you know, minute details. And sometimes that can seem silly when we look up and it feels like at times our world is crashing and falling apart before our very eyes. But that's why it's important for us to fully be that wise hearted one, that full list
00:38:12
Speaker
not just the creative gift, but I need you to also come with the internal spiritual things that I'm giving you. Because one of the things that the Lord showed me early on when I was developing Kai is any art life can be a vessel for the Lord, can expand the kingdom when
00:38:40
Speaker
you do certain things, right?
Incorporating Faith in Art with the PPP Framework
00:38:44
Speaker
When you do certain things. And one of the things he gave me this PPP framework, right? There's the person, which is who you are. So that's my spiritual maturity and who I am as an artist coming into my artistic practice.
00:39:01
Speaker
coming into, right, making art and being a citizen in the world, that kind of thing, who I am. Then there's my process, which is how I go about doing things, how I make the art, how I make business decisions, how I deal with my cast, right, how I take space in the world. And then there's also the product, the actual art that I make.
00:39:25
Speaker
And if we are walking with the Lord in each of those areas, something that he's been dealing with me recently is if you follow me, then I will be seen in your choices and I will be experienced in your life and choices. And so part of part of kind of that ministry and the contribution that we make is, um,
00:39:53
Speaker
is when people see us and experience us following the Lord, when they live in our choices, there's just something different about hanging out with you. I don't really know what it is, but I just feel, I don't know, I feel at peace when I'm with you. They don't know what it is. They just know it's different. And then there are times when our art
00:40:21
Speaker
not at times. It should be regular when our art, no matter what it is, is infused with his DNA and presence. And the first time I ever experienced that when I was an undergrad in Baltimore, I would take the Chinatown bus, that's what it was called, the Chinatown bus up to New York and volunteer for the tap festivals because I was a poor student and I couldn't afford to go.
00:40:48
Speaker
But I could pay that $35 and I had a friend who lived in Hoboken so I would go and I would volunteer so I could take classes. And I was dating this guy at the time and he broke up with me when I moved and I was so heartbroken and on the plane I heard this song Leaf Dream by John Boswell, the solo piano song. And I
00:41:13
Speaker
I just started seeing tap. I had never composed a tap piece before. So I went back to Baltimore and I would be in the studio.
00:41:23
Speaker
you know, 10, one o'clock in the morning creating this piece. And it was my time with the Lord, you know, heal my little heartbreak and, you know, just creating with him. And that was one of the first experiences I had creating art with him outside of dance ministry, right? Right. And so anyway, I go and I perform this tap piece.
00:41:50
Speaker
And afterwards, this woman, she comes up to me and she just like, she latches onto me and she weeps. And she held me for a long time and she just, she just cried and she goes, thank you. She just kept saying, thank you. I had never experienced anything like that before, just with art. And that's when I knew.
00:42:14
Speaker
The preparation that I do behind closed doors with me and God in my artistic process is creating a space for them to experience him when I put it out into the world. They don't know what it is, but I know who it is, right? And that opens up that door for questions.
00:42:34
Speaker
I'm just so grateful to know you. I'm so grateful that we connected and just to know that you're out there and you give so much encouragement and just really solid wisdom to so many artists and I'm just so grateful for you and thank you for taking time to talk today. Thank you for having me.
00:43:10
Speaker
Spending time with Marlita is always so encouraging. I think what I really enjoy talking to her about is how she's so grounded in who she is. She's just such an example of that once you are fully grounded in who you are and who you are in God and you got that
00:43:31
Speaker
It's like she just doesn't even think about the rest. She just is who she is and then that just pops out in whatever she does. And I guess I'm just on this quest right now for kind of trying to define what a Christian in the arts is or even what that phrase should be.
00:43:57
Speaker
for me what caught on about everything you're talking about and what it is to be a soul maker. I think sharing the story, telling the story, and we got the story. She told us right up that she heard this loud voice three different times, telling her to go watch this thing. And I think a lot of
00:44:15
Speaker
Um, us Christians have been in those moments before where we actually did, we have heard voices, um, and not in a funny way, but we heard that voice and it's always something simplistic. It's not like do this, do this, do this. It says, you know, come closer, go watch this. Listen, why aren't you doing this? Why should you do that type of thing?
00:44:37
Speaker
And for her to be vulnerable on this podcast and say that and say this is how it all started and giving us the spiritual part of it, which opened up the door to the creative artistic part of her that she was about to live out her entire life up until this very moment and so on.
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah, I thought of you too, cause she talks about how through her art that she has developed spiritually. And that was a conversation that we've had a little bit that that's kind of intriguing to you. And it is to me too, of like the ways that being involved in art making actually draw us closer to God.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, I always feel like there's a lot more noise and good interruptions besides the music that you're making and writing on a spiritual level. You're hearing, I'm hearing things, I'll hear things that I've never heard before in a spiritual
00:45:41
Speaker
I wouldn't say awaking at this point, but in the early stages, yeah. And now when I hear that, it's confirmation. And that I'm still able to communicate with God through the arts and music. Stop crying. It's just so beautiful.
00:46:03
Speaker
Well, we will put all of Marlita's info in the show notes so everybody can check out your books, her podcast, her courses, her coaching, everything that she has to offer. And in our next episode, we're gonna talk about the three other gifts God gives Bezalel and the wise-hearted ones to support them in their work. A community of support, a framework and structure in which to live and work, and the ability to teach and lead others through their art.
00:46:30
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed the show. Thanks for listening. See you soon. Thanks for listening to Be Make Do, a Soul Makers podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcast. Want to join the Soul Makers movement? Sign up for our newsletter at soulmakers.org. All links and resources for this episode can be found in our show notes.