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E182: The “Restricted” Stalker
5.5k Plays3 years ago
Imagine someone is texting you intimate details concerning what you are doing while alone in your home. Imagine they call you only to play back conversations your family is having inside your home and that those calls soon escalate to violent threats. Now imagine that those calls are traced to the cell phone of a family member.
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Transcript
Nostalgia for Futuristic Dreams
00:00:00
Speaker
When I was little, I used to love the TV show The Jetsons. The talking robot that cleaned and cooked and gave you advice, the flying cars, the little pods they floated in to get to school, all of that amazed me. I wanted so bad to be a part of that futuristic world. But what's crazy to think about is that world, the world of The Jetsons, was set in 2062.
00:00:22
Speaker
So maybe I will see flying cars and jetpacks. According to the Smithsonian Magazine writer Matt Novak, quote, though it was just a cartoon with all of its slight gags and parodies you'd expect, it was based on very real expectations for the future. As author Danny Graydon notes in the Jetsons, the official cartoon guide, the artist drew inspiration from futuristic books of the time, including the 1962 book, 1975, The Changes to Come by Arnold B. Barack.
00:00:52
Speaker
designer also drew heavily from the George aesthetic of Southern California where the studio was located. A style that perhaps best represents post-war consumer culture promises of freedom and modernity. The years leading up to the Jetsons premiere in September 1962 were a mix of techno, utopism, and Cold War fears. The launch of Sputnik by the Soviets in 1957
00:01:15
Speaker
created great anxiety in American public that already had been whipped up into a frenzy about the communist threat. In February 1962, John Glenn became the first American to orbit the earth, but less than a year earlier, the Bay of Pigs fiasco raised tensions between the superpowers to a dangerous level. Americans seemed equally optimistic and terrified for the future." End quote.
00:01:36
Speaker
And for me, that combination of optimism and fear still rings true.
Technology's Pervasive Influence
00:01:41
Speaker
In a world filled with technology, I often find myself wondering what is next. In a world where artificial intelligence can write our collegiate papers without us contributing one ounce of research, or write our lesson plans without us picking up a single resource,
00:01:55
Speaker
Is it so far-fetched to think of a day when technology plays a greater role in our lives than even we do? What's fascinating to me is how quickly we became a society that relies heavily on technology. When I go to the store now, if they don't accept Apple Pay or take a debit card, they're not getting my business. Not because I'm stuck up about that kind of thing, but because I never carry cash.
00:02:17
Speaker
And I think most of us are like that. If I were to get lost somewhere with no cell phone service, I would drive aimlessly until I either ran out of gas or my service picked back up again. Why? Because I was never taught to read a map. And why would I have been? By the time I started driving, GPS systems were a regular staple of most cars.
00:02:36
Speaker
If we think hard enough, I bet we can remember the first cell phone we got that had the full keyboard for sending text messages. I literally felt like I was on top of the world when sending a simple message became tapping on a keyboard rather than hitting numbers over and over and over again. Now we can speak into our phones.
00:02:54
Speaker
and that's half the message for us. The grip technology has on us is terrifying if you slow down enough to really think about it. In recent years, the purpose of cell phones has shifted from a verbal communication tool to a multimedia tool. Most aren't even referred to as cell phones now, but rather mobile devices because they're meant to be for more than just phone calls. We can check our emails,
00:03:15
Speaker
update our social media, take pictures, film things happening around us. They're integrated into our everyday lives and sometimes it feels that because of these devices, we have no real way of escaping. And for some families, they really didn't have a way of escaping the threatening messages they were receiving from a cell phone.
The Stalker: A Modern Horror Story
00:03:34
Speaker
This is the story of the restricted stalker.
00:04:11
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:04:20
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. So, Ms. Allen, first of all,
00:04:51
Speaker
Paulin season is among us here in Kentucky. Oh man. I'm a little stuffy. Allison's a little coffee. Yeah, cup of coffee drop in. You're ready to go? Yeah, you're welcome. You get the best of us today. Yeah. But it has been a minute since we had like a creepy kind of story. Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:05:17
Speaker
beyond like the normal ones we do. And so as I'm waiting for some interviews to fall into place, I thought we could cover a case this week that I found both entertaining and both creepy. So kind of think almost like the watcher, if you will. Oh, man. We're in for a roller coaster of a ride when I think about the watcher.
00:05:43
Speaker
That's so creepy. Well, I do think the watcher is more creepy than this one, but they're a little bit similar in certain ways. Okay. Okay. So as the intro hinted to today, we're going to be talking about what could happen if your everyday cell phone or mobile device, whatever you want to call it, became a tool that someone used to spy on you.
00:06:07
Speaker
You know, I know people, I'm not one, though I can understand why people get this way, who have those little covers for the camera on their computers, you know, so you could slide it over so people can't see you. It does creep me out to think that somebody could be watching or hearing or
00:06:29
Speaker
you know, just know what I'm doing because without my knowledge. Yeah. And a guy that my brother went to high school with, he has almost kind of, um, gone over the edge with that kind of stuff. Like you can't even bring your phone into his house. Like you have to leave it turned off outside on the porch. So I'm pretty sure there is a way to take that seriously, even when they're turned off.
00:06:59
Speaker
We did a test and- You did a test. Yeah, well, Rodney saw something on TikTok. It didn't work when the phone was turned off, but the phone could be completely out of range. And you can say, Siri, hey Siri, where's my phone? Looking for your iPhone 11. It's nearby, getting your iPhone 11 now. Yeah. And so it's pinging it.
00:07:30
Speaker
So you can just say, where's my phone? And it will let you know where it is. So you don't even have to have an Apple Watch.
00:07:41
Speaker
to do it. That's not normally how I do it. Can you tell how often I lose my phone? I have to ping it all the time. I told Anthony, I'm like, that feature alone was worth the price of an Apple watch to be able to ping my phone. But now we got new phones. Yeah, we got new phones and I haven't paired my Apple watch back to this one. So now I don't even need it. Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
00:08:02
Speaker
But we will talk later on in the case about how phones, even when they're off, really aren't off unless the battery is out, which is kind of weird. So that guy is not so far off the edge. That's true.
00:08:20
Speaker
That's true. He's just hanging on barely. But I'm sure some of us are thinking that there's no way like this could really be true. People can, you know, hack your phone this badly or whatever. But the events we're going to talk about today happened to not one, not two, but three different families. So it wasn't just isolated to one household. So I'll let you all be the judge of if this is a stalker that was real or a stalker that was a hoax.
00:08:50
Speaker
Okay. Alison, I remember when I first started texting people, like I was a freshman in college, so 2009-ish at the time, and I still had the Motorola RAZR, you know? Oh yeah, the fan, yeah. So to send, you know, just a simple two-word text meant hitting the buttons a bazillion times to get the letter that you needed to become a bet. For the young people who are listening,
00:09:19
Speaker
A, B, and C were all on the same number. So if you wanted like to type the word can, you'd have to hit the number three times to get the C and then pause a second and then hit it one time to get the A and then go to the number that had like MNO on it and like, yeah. Yeah, it was a whole ordeal. It was. You had really powerful thumb muscles though. Yeah, you did. But I remember
00:09:48
Speaker
It was such a huge deal when later on that year I got a phone that you could slide up and it had a full keyboard. Oh, I remember those. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like the most tech savvy person in the world. And I can remember being in class and like before the professor would start sliding up my phone and sending a text message. And I was like, yeah, I can do this.
00:10:11
Speaker
And I remember spending hours of my life giving a personalized ringtone to the majority of people that I would contact. I don't know if I could do that on my iPhone, but I miss that. You could get your favorite songs. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Now my phone just stays on silent. Mine does too, actually. My watch will vibrate slightly, so I know. Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
But today's case, while not a traditional CNC case, still scares me because what if the things that happened in this case are true? And what if something we carry around every single day pretty much all the time could turn on us?
The Stalker's Specific Threats
00:10:53
Speaker
So those are questions to be thinking about. Those are like the fears from iRobot.
00:10:59
Speaker
So this story starts in February of 2007, when some young teens started receiving bizarre messages from 16-year-old Courtney's phone. Wait, so Courtney's not sending them? They're just coming from her phone, potentially. Potentially. Okay. So according to reports, many of Courtney's friends, and Courtney is Courtney Pykendall, so that was one of the
00:11:26
Speaker
Families, okay, that's potentially stopped. Okay, so Courtney's friends began getting texts from her one night in February And so then she starts getting texts in return from all of her friends and they're like, why are you telling sending us the word gay? And Courtney's like
00:11:45
Speaker
I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't send those messages. And she says, still claims to this day that she did not text that word to a single person from her phone that night or any other night for that matter. So they're getting this text message from her phone number, but she's saying, yeah, I didn't send that.
00:12:06
Speaker
So I guess our number could be hacked somehow or something like that. Right. And at first these messages started out as something the family just kind of chalked up to interference in the network or maybe a problem with their cell phone provider. But what came next really can't be played off as a network issue. OK.
00:12:29
Speaker
So before long, these network issues started manifesting from Courtney's phone to her friends and family. And they were relentless, relentless, threatening texts and phone calls. Oh, and phone calls. Yeah. From an unknown caller. So although eventually we're able to trace them back to Courtney's phone, they show up as restricted when the phone calls come through. So it's not even registering.
00:12:59
Speaker
her number. So at first it does look like it's coming from her phone, which is why they're like, Oh, that's weird. And they're asking her why she texted it. But then the phone calls and the texts are coming from, it says restricted, but they're somehow able later on to trace it to Courtney's phone. And again, she's, I'm sure like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Exactly. Hmm.
00:13:25
Speaker
So while sending the slur of gay is horrible enough, the restricted person who just became known as restricted began sending increasingly dangerous and scary texts and they started spreading to other families in the area.
00:13:46
Speaker
So these messages were coming in around the clock. Restricted would say things like he was going to kill them, rape them, kill their pets, attack their school. And the threads when left on voicemail were in a raspy voice.
00:14:03
Speaker
Oh, not just somebody's normal voice, but something kind of scary and menacing. And this raspy voice on the Kuykendall's voicemail would leave threats that he was going to slit their throats, kill their pets, kill their grandparents. Their grandparents would be found dead.
00:14:25
Speaker
One message that was left on voicemail said, quote, there will be a shooting at Curtis and Whittier tomorrow. So don't send your kids. They will be dead. So dead. I know where you are. I know where you live. I'm going to kill Ike and Plumpy, which were the pads, I assume. Wow.
00:14:49
Speaker
So yeah, I would be creeping out. I'd be terrified. I'd be moving.
00:14:58
Speaker
Well, I definitely, okay, can I give a side note story? Yeah. So when I was in college, I got a phone call to my dorm room. Of course you did. You had so many creepy things happen to you. I know, but it was my freshman year and this phone call came in and it was a wrong number and it was some guy and he was like,
00:15:26
Speaker
hey, can I speak with and then said a name? That's not my name. And I said, I'm so sorry, you've got the wrong number, you know. And then he goes, well, you sound really nice. And I was like, thank you. You know, and I was like, OK, you know, I'll let you go. And so I hung up. Well, this same guy continued to then call my dorm room.
00:15:54
Speaker
Oh, over and over and would like, you know, he would ask for me and, you know, we talk all the time how you give information without really realizing that you're giving information. So, you know, if he would call and because I think that first day he when he said, you know,
00:16:12
Speaker
Well, you sound really nice. And he was like, I don't have the wrong number. What, what was your name? And I said, like, Alison or something, you know, I didn't get my full name, but I said my first name. Well, then when he called back, he would say to my roommate, he would be like, is Alison there? And she would say, oh, she's in class. So then he starts to know my schedule.
00:16:34
Speaker
because he's calling. And so I actually went to the campus police because he was calling all the time. And our dorm phones, it would do like a one ring if it were somebody on campus and then a two ring if it's somebody off of campus. And of course, this was off campus. And so I went to them and I was like, this guy, he won't stop calling my room.
00:17:01
Speaker
And they were like, is it on campus or off campus? And I said, he's off campus. And they were like, well, we have no way of tracing it. And so like he said, he was in California, but I have no idea. I mean, he could have been right outside my room. So yeah, it's creepy to think that, yeah, and to get messages and you,
00:17:28
Speaker
It put you on edge, but these messages, oh my gosh, I was terrified just by somebody saying, well, you sound nice. And then they kept calling. I can't imagine getting messages, you know, like this. And I think you're right. I think we do reveal a lot about ourselves without really meaning to, you know, like the picture or the stickers on your car with the mommy and the daddy stick figures and the kids, or it will say like,
00:17:53
Speaker
proud parent of a oral student at XYZ elementary school. And I read something where like, even if it says, you know, something like, um, my, now it doesn't matter anymore for me because Rodney is retired, but you know, if I had a sticker that said, you know, my husband is my hero and then has a firefighter sticker, well then,
00:18:19
Speaker
If he's still on duty, somebody knows that I'm home alone, you know.
00:18:26
Speaker
for 24 hours at a time. Or if your husband's like a truck driver and you have that on there, they're going to know you're alone for extended periods of time. Yeah. Just some food for thought, people. Exactly. But do you remember, so obviously these messages are creepy. So we're getting creepy texts, we're getting these strange voicemails saying that they're going to shoot up a school, they're going to kill your pets. But do you remember in the Watcher episode when the Watcher commented on the daughter painting and said that she was like a lovely artist
00:18:55
Speaker
Yes, because he saw her on the side porch and was commenting, so you know he was watching her.
00:19:02
Speaker
Well, soon restricted started doing things very similar to that. This person started making very specific and very personal comments.
Can The Stalker Be Stopped?
00:19:10
Speaker
So what were once those idle threats quickly changed because these messages started containing very specific information about the victim's life. So comments about what they were wearing or even things they were doing around the house.
00:19:26
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So very invasive because, you know, your house is your safe place. That's scary. And one article written by Kelsey Christian McConnell that was published in 2020 to the lineup. It said that one of those instances, one of the second family's mom was in her kitchen and she was cutting up limes for like a dish that she was making. And she got
00:19:55
Speaker
this phone call from restricted and all it said was quote, I prefer lemons. Yeah. I would have never thought that that sentence could strike terror and yet I would be terrified. Oh yeah. I mean, at this point, had I been one of those families, I would have lost my mind. We'd be packing up our things. We would be moving because I just couldn't, I could not know.
00:20:25
Speaker
My heart oh my gosh, it's like pounding right now just thinking about it I know and sometimes these things like the watcher thing or the poltergeist one that we did them to do poltergeist I think these can almost be more terrifying than talking about being kidnapped or you know, it's just a different level I guess of fear a different side of fear. Mm-hmm
00:20:50
Speaker
Despite the fact that many thought this was a hoax put on by one of the families, when police started investigating, they really couldn't find any solid proof of that. And like I mentioned, there were three families that were being tortured by restricted and they all went to the police fairly quickly. So that was, one family was the Price family and Darcy Price was interviewed by Fox News and
00:21:15
Speaker
That person stated that they went to the police right away after the phone hijacking began. Quote, they kind of push us aside, I think a little bit, she said. So far, I think they can't figure it out. So we had to come to the media for help to try to solve this. It's been traumatizing and terrorizing for all of us. For our family, our extended family, my children, it's unbelievable. End quote. Wow.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, as an adult, I would be scared. I can't imagine being, you know, a young teen or something like that. And how scary it would be. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, you can because you live that you're. I mean, that's true. But at least. Well, I don't. I could have been being watched. I don't know. But at least I didn't know about it if I were. That's true. That's true. You are. What are they saying? Great Gatsby. Pretty little fool or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00:22:09
Speaker
As you can imagine, the families tried everything to stop restrictive from contacting them and spying on them, but they really were very unsuccessful. They would do things like turn off their phones, which would also be my first reaction. I'm just going to turn it off unless I need it. But here's the thing. I mean, now you don't know when he's watching you. You know what I mean? Like at least if it's turned on, if he comment, you know, I don't know. I don't know.
00:22:39
Speaker
I don't know what I would do. But even when they did turn their phones off, they would randomly turn themselves back on. Yeah. One day their ringtone would be, you know, the tune that they picked out. The next day it would be something totally different. They would change it back. And then a few hours later, it would be that random tone again. Yeah.
00:23:03
Speaker
Okay. I'd be like, either somebody evil is out there or my phone is possessed, but knowing that it's happening to multiple people tells me it's not just my phone. And probably one of the most terrifying instances in my opinion was when the Kuykendall family discovered that restricted had somehow hacked the microphones on their mobile devices and had started recording private conversations. Oh.
00:23:32
Speaker
So Tim, who is Courtney's dad, remember Courtney is the one that her friends are like, why are you sending us these word messages?
00:23:38
Speaker
were called one such incident to Fox News when he was being interviewed. And he told them that his cell phone provided a portal through which the hacker had gained access to intimate details of his life. So recording family member conversations, snapping pictures of what they were wearing. And this restricted would send them all of this. And he said in this interview,
00:24:03
Speaker
quote, we've had times where I was having a conversation in my home and I got a voicemail and the conversations replayed, received a phone call or even checked my voicemail from a message. And while I push okay, I'll listen to it. I'm hearing a conversation going on in the living room between my daughter and my wife. Yeah. Oh, like I imagine that is scary. You could be,
00:24:31
Speaker
talking to your little sleuthound. I'd be like, is somebody, is this a frogging incident where somebody's living in my home, in the walls, in the attic? I don't know it. Yeah. Oh, that's so scary. Like you could be talking to your little sleuthound and Rodney get a phone call and hear what you're saying in the living room and he's sending in the dining room. Oh, that is so scary. That's so scary. Yeah. I think, I don't know what I would do.
00:24:57
Speaker
One of these conversations that was replaying via voicemail was a conversation between the Kuykendall family and law enforcement. So they get this voicemail from restricted that is replaying this conversation that they had with an added sinister message saying, quote, I can't wait till you die. Oh my gosh, you'll all be dead, even the officers, end quote.
00:25:26
Speaker
So you're, oh my goodness. I didn't even think about that. So they know, like if they say, Hey, don't go to the police, they know if you're going to the police or calling the police and then they're recording it and sending it back to you and then threatening you for doing, Oh my goodness. You don't feel they know anything. You've always got your phone. Yeah.
00:25:45
Speaker
And everyone was now desperate to stop being contacted by restricted. So when turning their phones off didn't help, the families tried changing their numbers. Cause again, they're like, you know what? Maybe our phone number has been hacked. Oh yeah. So it is weird. Cause how would they know? How would he have figured out? I guess it's, is it all going, I don't know enough about technology. I know technology like programs, but I don't know.
00:26:13
Speaker
technology networking? Like, is it because those phones are all somehow linked to one, say, account through whatever your service provider is, or an IP address that's going through? Sort of. And we talk about it like later in the episode, but there's ways that people can clone telephones. So I could clone your phone to mine and operate your phone from mine as if it's my telephone.
00:26:43
Speaker
And then if somebody's in your phone as like mom, well then they know that person's phone. Interesting. So they'll be able to message, yeah. So just put coded names in your phone for every single person in your life. Well, they do say that. They say, you know, not to say my husband or the love of my wife as your contact for your husband. Cause then if somebody did get your phone, they would know, or you know, mom or dad.
00:27:13
Speaker
But who would put? Yeah, I'm gonna list our mom by their first name. That's weird. Sorry if you all do that. That's just weird. I know I can't imagine.
00:27:24
Speaker
So they changed their numbers, they still get contacted from restricted. They even went as far as buying new phones, thinking maybe it had something to do with the individual mobile devices that they had. Still restricted contacted them. They switched service providers twice and still received communication from restricted. Okay, now that's something I would have thought would have changed it maybe, switching the service provider. So, okay.
00:27:50
Speaker
And cell phone companies were really dumbfounded and honestly very skeptical. ABC News interviewed Matt Sullivan, who was a spokesman for Sprint. And he said, quote, we're unaware of any technology that would allow the activity that's being reported here. We're partnering with law enforcement to investigate. We're not exactly sure what's being done to these phones, end quote. So you've got experts here.
00:28:15
Speaker
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00:32:50
Speaker
Okay, Alison. So things at this point are kind of looking bad for Courtney. Well, especially after the sprint guy is like, yeah, we've never heard of anything like this before.
Experts' Insight on Hacking and Spoofing
00:33:03
Speaker
Police have been able to trace some of the threatening messages back to her phone, which seemed to be able to send messages and make calls even when she supposedly had it powered off. So right now,
00:33:18
Speaker
you're saying police are skeptical and they're thinking, is Courtney just saying it's powered off, but she's doing this, but did she have a history of, you know, causing trouble or anything like that? That, I mean, not that even a history would, you know, indicate that she would do something like this, but, cause I feel like if you're an upstanding person who's never been in trouble, I would hope that they would believe you.
00:33:50
Speaker
Well, her parents, even now, like her mom will say that she wasn't involved. At this point, I do think that they were still like, this is not our Courtney, this could not be Courtney. And I didn't read much about this family's history. But they're like, you know what, if the police are suspecting it could potentially be her, we're just gonna take her phone.
00:34:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah. There you go. Yeah. That's a great solution because if she is doing it and they take her phone, it should completely stop. But it didn't. So then if I were Courtney, I'd be like, who's telling the truth? Apologize to me. That's right. That's right.
00:34:40
Speaker
Strangely, the other two families that were being targeted by restricted had close ties to Courtney's family. According to line up, Darcy Price, who we heard that snippet of their interview with Fox News, was receiving calls and texts and she was like the oldest of the Kuykendall daughters. Okay, so Courtney's sister.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yes. Okay. And then their neighbor, Andrea McKay, also received creepy correspondence from restricted. So it's people that are close to the Kuykendall family. So does that make them think once they realize, you know, they try to take Courtney's phone and the phone calls happen still, do they think it's like a local or somebody who knows the families?
00:35:33
Speaker
A lot of people think that, one, a lot of people think if it is Courtney that, you know, this is a teen who can get in the media spotlight, right? And so she's doing this to get all this media attention. But then you'd think you'd, if you're going to get media attention, what's it matter if nobody knows? Well, I guess they wouldn't know your name because you're being targeted by it. But I just, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't believe it.
00:36:03
Speaker
And they even say, some people will say that it's a combination of all the families working together to create this elaborate hoax again for just like media attention. But that seems a little, I would be more apt to believe it's one person doing it for media attention versus an entire group of people. Yeah. Now,
00:36:24
Speaker
Do I think that there are people, this is going to sound totally off the wall. And I don't, I mean, it's funny, but I don't necessarily mean it to be funny. Do I think that there are people who don't really have court cases who say they have court cases just so they can travel to California and go on Judge Judy? Yes, I do. I don't know if someone's brain in terms of like getting media attention would go to something like this. Yeah.
00:36:54
Speaker
Well, I mean, even with like the watcher, though, and with the poltergast, the empty dew poltergast. I mean, some of the theories were they're doing it for the attention. I know. That's the go-to, I think, when we can't explain something is to force the explanation that it must be them and they're doing it for some reason that we just don't understand.
00:37:21
Speaker
You know, as we talked about most of the harassment and threats centered around Courtney and like we just said, I think it's kind of easy to point the finger at Courtney because she's a teenager when all this is taking place and we can explain or rationalize why it could be her, you know, she wants attention. Maybe one of the people she's messaging is a bully to her and she's, you know, trying to get back to them or at them. But one thing we can explain and one thing we can't rationalize is how
00:37:50
Speaker
like we talked about, even when her parents compensated her phone, did restricted continue to contact its victims. Yeah, please tell me how that happened. Right. The following is an excerpt directly from an article written by Kelsey Christine McDonald called, this is a long title, restricted a cell phone stalkers relentless reign of terror that was published in January of 2022.
00:38:12
Speaker
So she says, quote, while cell phone companies and local law enforcement couldn't seem to understand how a criminal could pull something like this off, surveillance experts said that this kind of terror was all too possible. In fact, it's almost an easy task for the right kind of hacker in this age of rapidly advancing technology.
00:38:30
Speaker
Electronic surveillance expert James Atkinson confirmed to news outlets at that time cell phones could be operated remotely they could take pictures and pinpoint locations and according to Atkinson most cops couldn't even begin to comprehend how other security experts weighed in saying that spoofing a phone is a totally viable method of stalking FBI agent
00:38:52
Speaker
Brad Garrett said that this enables a person to mask or change the number they're making calls from. A more proficient hacker can even clone a phone which gives them the power to do everything the actual owner of the phone can do on their device. However, it requires a far more sophisticated technology to actually listen in on a phone call.
00:39:14
Speaker
Again, it's possible, but is it possible for a teenager? I mean, this Atkinson dude was trained by the National Security Agency and like testified in Congress about leaked classified Coast Guard information. So I think that type of, yeah. Acting happens and how it happens. But I think that's far more sophisticated
00:39:40
Speaker
than hacking a phone and are we saying then if they're the same sophistication, you know, it takes the same know how to hack a phone and to hack the United States Coast Guard, which I wish I don't think. Right. I don't either. Yeah. But if it is so we're saying then that a teenager can
00:40:05
Speaker
No, as much as it's like an experienced hacker, which I mean, we do have kids that are, you know, hacking into websites now. Yes. I do actually think there are a lot of kids who are very, very good at manipulating technology and hacking and finding ways around certain restrictions and things like that.
00:40:30
Speaker
um but I think it's you know based on what this guy says even then you know you have hackers and so for the sprint guide to basically be like we have no idea how this is even possible well yeah you do buddy because there have been hackers since computers you know were first around and so I do agree with this Atkinson guy and I feel like you know if if there are hackers and this is a capability that they can
00:41:00
Speaker
basically spoof my phone and pretend like I'm me and, you know, have every capability as if they are holding my phone in their hand, then I kind of feel like we need to start hiring hacker experts on police departments and for phone companies. So if something like that does happen, then they do know how to trace it or investigate it. And, you know, this was
00:41:29
Speaker
want to say the early life, but cell phone technology in 2007 was not the same as cell phone technology now. True, true. So maybe the hacking process then was easier, but I almost feel like it would have been harder because on the phones we have now so much of our personal life is on that phone, your social media could be hacked.
00:41:50
Speaker
Your email can be hacked. Your Apple Pay can be hacked. You know, like all this different stuff. And you just didn't have that on, you know, a Nokia flip phone. Right. Yeah.
00:42:05
Speaker
Allison, people started suggesting to the families that they needed to change their passcode as often. That's what one of their cell phone providers told them. So they did that, but still restricted was able to hack their phones. The Kuykendall family got so scared that they actually installed security cameras as I too would have because I already have them and I'm not being stalked. So like if I was being stalked, I would totally have them. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
But shortly after the final camera went up, they received voicemail saying, I know the security code. Oh my goodness. Like this just creepy to me. And with each security measure they put into place and each time they switched cell phone providers, they were greeted with a new and disturbing message from restricted.
00:42:54
Speaker
The phone calls, the messages, the strange phone behavior continued every night for a solid four months before it suddenly just stopped. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And even that's scary because then you're kind of like on edge. Yeah. If nobody's ever caught, then you're like, are they going to come back one day? Why did they show up at my door? Right.
00:43:23
Speaker
So I guess we're left to figure out what we really think happened. And there's a couple of possibilities. I don't even really know that they would be theories with this one, but there's a couple of different possibilities. Okay. So obviously some people jump to the hoax, specifically mini blame Courtney.
00:43:43
Speaker
And the evidence can be pretty condemning. The messages were coming from her phone and despite the fact that she claimed she had nothing to do with the messages and the phone calls and that she would never scare the people she loves, many believe it was her. But she said in an interview quote, why would I do that to people I care about? Why would I harass my own family? End quote.
00:44:07
Speaker
And her parents were adamant that she was not involved, which is a thing. I think it's true. Like if I'm going to harass somebody, it's not going to be my mom and my dad, right? It's going to be somebody I don't like. Yeah. I, my gut is not telling me that she was involved. Now, obviously my gut could be wrong, but I, I just don't, I don't believe that, especially with knowing that her parents took her phone. Hmm.
00:44:35
Speaker
And it could happen. Yeah. And there are some things with this theory that just don't really sit well to me. You know, I think we get hung up on the fact that Courtney is a teenager and that she would do this for the attention. But again, where's, is she capable of
00:44:52
Speaker
this advanced hacking that requires JavaScripts and all these other things. You know, could she turn on phones when they're off, change ringtones? And most strangely to me, how does one text themself and leave voicemails to themselves from their own phone? Right. And I don't even know if you can do that. Like I'm not that. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
That all seems a little impossible in my opinion for someone so young, but on the other hand, like we've talked about, we have kids that are like hacking into national databases. So what do I know?
Skepticism and Theories on the Stalker's Identity
00:45:29
Speaker
In 2007, an opinion piece, so the same year that this happened, was posted regarding restricted harassment of the Kuykendall family claiming that what many of us may be thinking that this entire thing was a hoax. So author Mike Elgin took several claims that were made by the family and explained how he believed them all to be false. So he made or took like six claims and explains them away. Okay, I'm curious.
00:45:58
Speaker
Yeah, we're gonna talk about them briefly. His article was a little long, so I condensed some of these down. But one was the unauthorized listening through the phone's microphone. As security experts have
00:46:12
Speaker
talked about and we've talked about it in this episode, it's possible to eavesdrop on conversations through a cell phone's microphone, even when the phone appears to be off. And we know that this is called like the spoofing or the he says roving bug. And so they're saying, Oh, well, we have our phones off so it can't be us, but it's still possible even when your phone is off. I guess if you know how.
00:46:39
Speaker
Right, that's the whole thing is you know how exactly and we're hinging it being on a hoax assuming that they are being a hoax assuming they know how The second thing he pointed out was the unauthorized watching through the phone's camera And he says this one is quote unquote clearly bogus Although technically possible the phone
00:47:03
Speaker
problem or the camera problem, I guess, is that if you picked up your phone right now and turned on your camera, you're not going to be, especially phones in the early 2000s that didn't have cameras that could go both ways. I remember we would have to turn our phone around to take a selfie. And then you didn't know what it was going to look like until after you took it.
00:47:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So he's saying in that time, if you opened up your camera on your phone, it's not going to be instinctively pointed at you. It's going to be looking out at the room. So how is someone
00:47:38
Speaker
taking pictures of like, you know, someone sitting in a chair as if it's through their camera lens. Unless they're just watching it all the time and you know, they're just snapping opportunistically when it happens. I mean, I don't know. That is interesting though. Cause I hadn't really thought about that, you know, cause phones now I can turn on my camera app and it can be looking right at me. But at that point, I mean,
00:48:09
Speaker
I don't even know when the first iPhone came out. So I don't even know if that was a possibility then. Right. The third thing he talks about is the remote turning on of a phone that is off. And this just tells you how old this article is. So he said, quote, some phones, including Blackberries, Nokia's and others will be turned on by said alarm. Many phones are never really off unless the battery is removed. End quote. Oh.
00:48:38
Speaker
So I guess at the time that would have been more feasible than it is now. So he says these are known as Trojans or applications that enable a remote hacker to turn on a cell phone that is currently off. So again, I just think that sounds sophisticated for a teenager, but you know, whatever. Yes. While you were doing that, I looked it up and the first front facing camera was 2010.
00:49:06
Speaker
on an iPhone, iPhone 4. Oh, see? So yeah, we didn't have that. So that's interesting. The fourth thing he talks about is the ringtones being changed. He says, quote, this can theoretically be theoretically done.
00:49:21
Speaker
by a downloadable Java hack. But again, it's unlikely without physical access to the phone. So he's saying, they lied about this ringtone change, because it's pretty much impossible. And again, I mean, I can see where this person's coming from, because we're taking their word for that, like word police there. Right. Right. And they called one minute and it was, you know, drop it low. And then the next minute it was some other 2007 hit. Mm hmm. I don't know. Hmm.
00:49:52
Speaker
The fifth thing he says is that this is a total hoax because they claim these problems continue with new phones and even more specifically new accounts. And you said that, like you thought. Yeah, I would have thought. Which of the routers would stop. Mm hmm. I would have.
00:50:10
Speaker
So he's saying if a hacker were able to take over the phone after they switched accounts, it might explain some of the events that took place like the changing ringtones, but it can't explain away all of it. And the last thing that he talks about is that most of the calls and text messages trace back to Courtney's phone. And he says there's a couple of possibilities here. So the first is that Courtney is obviously in on the hoax. The second
00:50:37
Speaker
if someone is stealing or using her phone. So I mean, if she had friends over all the time or something like that, that could be a possibility.
00:50:46
Speaker
The third thing that he says could explain this going back to Courtney's phone is that her phone was cloned or the fourth that it was spoofed. So someone is calling from another phone, but making it appear to be coming from Courtney's phone. And apparently this spoofing is easy, but it doesn't explain some of the other attacks, like gaining access to the cell phone's microphones and that kind of thing. Well, I will say,
00:51:15
Speaker
Before you started giving the reasons why this tech guy says it has to be a hoax, I was completely convinced that it was real, that someone, but I wonder if part of me is coming from the mentality of today, when those things could more easily be real, because he does bring up some good points, and especially, you know, saying certain things here,
00:51:44
Speaker
Even if the phone were infected with some sort of Trojan virus, it wouldn't be able to do this. Even if somebody gained remote access or cloned the phone, it wouldn't be able to do these other things. I get why there is suspicion. And now I'm torn. I still don't know if I want to believe that it's Courtney, but somebody, I guess, could be.
00:52:14
Speaker
using her phone to do this. But I don't know why it would be at all hours. That's true. And then just randomly stop unless they had their phone and we're over it, you know. Right. Another possibility that I think could be a real prospect in solving this is that it could be a potential neighbor that's doing the stalking.
00:52:41
Speaker
I don't know the type of neighborhood that they lived in, but I mean, it wouldn't take much for someone to look through your window and comment on what you're wearing or what you're cooking. Maybe they're creeping in your kitchen window and seeing you slicing those limes instead of the lemons.
00:52:58
Speaker
And I know if you all are like me and you grew up on Disney channel movies, we also get a clue and how Lindsay Lohan and her friends use amateur spy equipment that they bought at a spy shop to look through windows and record conversations. So if they can do it, like who's to say another kid couldn't do that? I'm sure in 2007, there was technology that would allow you to listen to conversations that were, you know,
00:53:26
Speaker
a couple hundred feet away if we're assuming it's a neighbor. Oh, yeah, I guarantee you that there were ways in 2007, you know, maybe they're not. Maybe they're making the family think that they've gained access to a cell phone or the camera.
00:53:40
Speaker
but they've set up a recording device somehow in the living room or a nanny cam, you know, or something like that. And so they're getting these pictures. And because someone is sending voicemails and texts, they're like, they're getting pictures from my phone too. Or because they're sending voicemails and texts and, you know,
00:54:04
Speaker
somebody has recorded a conversation through a hidden recorder, they're like, they're listening on my phone. When maybe, maybe they were misled to think that all of the things were coming from their phone when they weren't. I think that's a good point because then I think that could have been a jealous friend that, you know, potentially placed these items in their home. Not necessarily even of Courtney's. It could be of her parents, a jealous friend of her parents.
00:54:33
Speaker
or maybe a neighbor and maybe, you know, they, it's on the outside of the house, but they can still pick up all these conversations. I just think that there's a real possibility that this theory could work out. And I mean, we've talked about cases where people do crazy things for attention, like pretending to, or not pretending, but you know, stalking your neighbor. Remember that one case that we did where the lady,
00:55:01
Speaker
the people were receiving those letters and then the neighbors started sending him to herself. Yeah, it was the Bill Comey's case. He was receiving letters and then after his death, yeah, other people in the neighborhood and it was the mom's friend. Yeah. Who was sending them. Yeah. I think people just sometimes kind of snap and do crazy things for attention. So maybe this is something similar. Maybe.
00:55:29
Speaker
Some people say that another possibility is that Courtney's phone. This goes kind of back to the hacking, I guess, but essentially Courtney could have got a virus from visiting a social media platform, MySpace, or something similar while on her phone. Because, you know, Anthony had a blackberry in high school and I thought he was so cool. I already thought he was so cool, but that made me more cooler because, you know, he could get on,
00:55:56
Speaker
social media on his phone, which was, you know, amazing. So are they saying, people are saying, you know, did Courtney do that? She got on my space. And each time the family switched phones or providers and got a new phone, Courtney would get back onto my space. And so the virus would reappear and somebody is tapping in on her phone through this virus. And at first I was like, well, this doesn't really make sense because
00:56:24
Speaker
then how did this restricted person call their family landline? Because some of the voicemails were left on their house phone. But when I was driving today with Anthony, he was like, well, I had my mom and dad's house phone saved in my cell phone in high school. And so I was like, oh, duh. So maybe they just got the number from her contacts.
00:56:49
Speaker
I don't know. What do you think Allison? So I don't think it's a hoax. I do think it's legitimately someone. I do think the MySpace theory is interesting. But I think I'm going to go with the fact that there was someone who hacked into Courtney's phone who was using it to terrorize these people and again could have gotten their numbers from Courtney's phone because
00:57:19
Speaker
Everybody's going to be listed in it, especially the relatives, you know, and with their names. And if it's somebody who knows Courtney, like you were saying, somebody jealous of her, of the parents, of whomever, then they know the relationship. They know where these people probably live. And I'm going to say that some of the things that the
00:57:38
Speaker
tech guy said were impossibilities in terms of hacking the phone could just be other things that whoever was doing this had set up or done to invade their home, like I said, a nanny cam or a recording device. And because they're so focused on getting these phone calls and texts, they think it's all coming from the phone.
00:58:05
Speaker
when maybe it isn't and that could, you know, maybe explain some of the things that the tech guy was like, well, you wouldn't be able to do this, like take pictures. Well, you might if they have some sort of camera device somehow set up in the in the home. So. I'm going to say real. That's what I think, too. I think they had a real stalker.
00:58:28
Speaker
No matter which side of the debate you fall on, one thing we can all agree on is that the technology used to either stalk a family or try to trick the media was advanced for the everyday mobile device user. Much like the Jetsons, this person could be considered ahead of their time. Regardless of if this was a hoax or a stalker, several people lived in fear for a long time as a result of someone's actions. The police did everything in their power to catch the perpetrator, but this case,
00:58:59
Speaker
I don't know that they ever will. The family had installed extra security cameras, changed their phone numbers and done so many other things. But each time this stalker or this hoax found them, maybe one day we'll know the truth about who was behind all of this and who the restricted stalker really was.
00:59:17
Speaker
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Community Engagement and Awareness
00:59:25
Speaker
As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
00:59:46
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:00:13
Speaker
We have Mad Love going out to Cindy who left us an Instagram comment saying, quote, hello, I am a true crime addict and I've been listening to your podcast. I came here to match the faces to the voices. I don't normally listen to her watch anything regarding cold cases because it makes me anxious and I need closure. But your podcast is different and I really enjoy it. I listened during my commute to Boston
01:00:42
Speaker
while I'm drinking my coffee. I like the format and how you do the theories at the end. Thank you for great content," end quote. Well, thank you, Cindy. That looks so good. I know, super sweet. It's just sweet comment. Thank you, Cindy. We also have our love going out to MatF216, potentially, that's how we've agreed to say it, who lives in Canada. Your favorite place. I love Canada.
01:01:10
Speaker
And this review said quote I love your podcast and I'm so glad I found you Thank you for bringing attention to these cases My heart goes out to all the victims families and loved ones in quote and honestly, we're right there with you And that's why we do this every week. Yes, absolutely and speaking of our listeners and love for
01:01:34
Speaker
all of you who obviously who are in the US but also outside of the US shout out to Japan because we are currently number 37 on the true crime charts in Japan. Yeah.
01:01:52
Speaker
So thank you. I'll just say thank you to the whole country. I kind of want to move to Japan now. Thank you, Japan. Yeah. So yeah, we are right there with you, Matt F 216. That is exactly why we do what we do. And we're so glad that we have listeners, not just here in the US, but all over the world to help share these stories, because that is what can get answers.
01:02:19
Speaker
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01:02:34
Speaker
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Speaker
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