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FC2O Episode 6 - Paul Chek (Part 2)
51 Plays5 years ago
If you heard Part 1 you’ll already know about Paul's extraordinary career and unparalleled successes in the rehabilitation and performance conditioning fields.
In this episode we continue the journey through Paul’s career touching on some of his highlights and challenges he's faced.
Like any great healer, though, Paul has only allowed the challenges to grow him stronger and to push him deeper into helping as many people as he can to realise their potential through optimal health and performance.
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Transcript
Beyond Scientific Materialism
00:00:00
Speaker
The reason I gave that explanation is because if you don't really understand what the universe is, if you don't understand what a human being is, what spirit is, what soul is, what mind is, what individual mind versus collective mind versus morphogenic fields versus world mind versus cosmic mind, then you're gonna try to figure out dousing based on a scientific materialist perspective and you're gonna hit a dead end.
00:00:29
Speaker
But people that hit that dead end just haven't become mature enough to look deeper and realize that the scientific materialist approach isn't very effective, which is why with all the technology we have today and all the doctors and all the therapists and all the health food stores and all the gyms and all the trainers and all the massage therapists were the sickest people we've ever been in history.
00:01:20
Speaker
Hello
Paul Chek's Career and Methodologies
00:01:21
Speaker
and welcome to FC2.0 with me, Matt Waughton, and with my guest today, Paul Chek, in part two of our interview. So if you heard part one of this interview, you will already know about Paul's extraordinary career and unparalleled successes in the rehabilitation and performance conditioning fields. You'll also have a feel for the deeply holistic nature of Paul's work, which is both what attracted me to study with him and is why he gets results where others have failed.
00:01:46
Speaker
In this episode, we continue the journey through Paul's career, touching on some of his highlights, the trainings he's been through, the people he's worked with, and the educational materials he's produced. Some of these materials, as you'll hear, have blown away even the most elite in the rehabilitation community, and despite this, Paul has hit challenge after challenge throughout his career, questioning his authority and his qualifications.
00:02:07
Speaker
Like any great healer though, Paul has only allowed the challenges to grow him stronger and to push him deeper into helping as many people as he can to realise their potential through optimal health and performance. Enjoy the show. Here we go.
00:02:26
Speaker
Okay, so welcome to part two of the interview with Paul Chek on FC2.0 with me, Matt Walden. So Paul, we dive quite deep into the early stages of your career and even your life in the previous episodes, and we kind of set the stage for this second part.
00:02:46
Speaker
So we had reached essentially we've gone decade by decade and we were just in the 2000s and we've talked about a few of the things that you sort of worked through and developed and put out in the early thousands as it were, or the noughties as they say, as I see it. And so what I wanted to do was to
00:03:08
Speaker
Before we move on too much further, one question I didn't ask you about was who had you actually worked with? I know you mentioned you worked with Chicago Bulls and that you'd had some interactions with Led Hamilton and Gabriel Aris, but what were some of the other teams and experiences that you had in terms of your clinical work in your earlier part of your career? You mentioned obviously US Army Boxing Team, but beyond the Army, what were the kind of clients you were working with?
00:03:36
Speaker
Oh boy, there's been so many I have to really dust my brain off. The first professional basketball team to hire me was the Denver Nuggets. They had a player that was very high paid that had chronic recurring hamstring injuries that nobody could figure out. And it turned out that their team massage therapist was one of my students and they
00:04:05
Speaker
told the management that they might want to consider having me evaluate this guy. So they flew me in. And I evaluated him and did some treatment on him because he had had recurring hamstring injuries for three years and he had a lot of scar tissue and nobody there knew how to break that scar tissue up. And the scar tissue was positioned such that it was actually aggravating and attached to the sciatic nerve. Right.
00:04:31
Speaker
So he had adhesion to the sciatic nerve distribution. So doing things like a straight leg raise test would cause neurological symptoms within the distribution of the sciatic and peroneal distribution. He had complete core dysfunction and basically he had problems through the entire totem pole. But I wrote him a corrective program and I taught the therapist how to do it and he got better quite quickly. So that was good.
00:05:01
Speaker
Let's see. And then we've talked about the Chicago Bulls. One of the therapists from the Oakland Raiders bought all my videos at the time, which I think was scientific core conditioning, scientific back training.
00:05:16
Speaker
And he implemented the strategies from taking workshops with me and then studying the courses with the Raiders and wrote me a letter and said thank you because of the changes that that had made. And I had answered questions for him as a consultant. I had many of the San Diego Chargers as patients.
00:05:41
Speaker
probably six or eight of them over the span of several years, because I worked in a clinic that was linked to their medical system. So often when those guys got surgery, they would end up in our clinic for physical therapy, but several of them found me for rehab because they had had multiple surgeries. One guy had five surgeries on the same knee. And when I started evaluating him,
00:06:09
Speaker
He said, is this normal what you're doing right now? I said, you mean evaluating you? I said, yes. How else would you know what to work on? And he said, you're the first person that's ever done an evaluation on me. And he'd had been through therapy five times and had five surgeries on the same knee for the same problem. And so long story made short, I rehabbed him quite quickly and
00:06:34
Speaker
He was both happy and pissed off because he'd spent five years getting treated ineffectively and many surgeries that he didn't need Yeah, um and his knee problems were the the result of core dysfunction and and eating tons of inflammatory foods and things like that I worked with the olympic kayak and canoe team the 1988 olympic kayak and canoe team. I think I forgot to mention that Yeah, yeah and two of the guys that
Working with Elite Teams
00:07:02
Speaker
I was uh
00:07:03
Speaker
doing personal therapy for and conditioning. Both got gold medals in the Olympics in flat water kayaking. I was a therapist for the women's
00:07:14
Speaker
kayak and canoe team as well. I was a therapist and consultant for the Brazilian Olympic team and they trained at San Diego State and I helped them heal a number of cases of Achilles tendon pathology plantar fasciitis and various other structural challenges that was affecting their top athletes. I worked for the
00:07:41
Speaker
US Olympic figure skating development team, which was girls between eight and 16 that had been selected to be Olympic athletes by being top competitors in competitions, figure skating competitions all over the world. So the Olympic committee had put this team together and hired a very skilled coach who had turned out to have been studying my articles and following my work.
00:08:07
Speaker
And they brought me in and I did a complete totem pole assessment on all the girls on the team, which I believe was something like 12 or 16. And totally taught them how to correct their motor pattern dysfunctions. And there was a lot of structural dysfunction in these girls and dietary issues. And see in 95, did we talk about my work with the Canberra Raiders?
00:08:35
Speaker
No, no, they mentioned them. Yeah, so in 95 the Raiders hired me in Australia. Two of their strength coaches had attended two three-day presentations that I gave in Sydney. I believe it was in Canberra actually. I used to lecture at the Australian Institute of Sport. Right, right.
00:08:59
Speaker
who also took up my work quite heavily. So they have access to all sorts of great athletes and a couple of the physios in there studied my courses quite extensively and consulted with me from time to time. And so I got a call one day from the Canberra Raiders and it turned out that their entire first string was out with injuries. They had nine guys
00:09:28
Speaker
that their medical staff didn't know what to do with and they were all their top players. So they contacted me and asked me if I would be willing to fly down and figure out what was going on with these guys and design rehabilitation and conditioning programs.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so kind of a funny story, I think you've heard me tell it before, but it's a funny one. So I flew all the way there and I met their coach, Mel Meninga, who is just one of the most amazing human beings I've ever worked with on a professional sports team. He's really the epitome of what a coach and manager should be for athletes. But they're sponsored by a casino, so their whole training facility is connected to and basically inside a casino complex.
00:10:16
Speaker
And while I was in the waiting room, I noticed that they had great, big, huge poster size photos of each of the teams for all the years they'd been in existence. And so my intuition was I should look at this year's team and see what I can see just by looking at them. And as soon as I looked at the picture, I identified nine people with noticeable and clearly distinguishable Atlas subluxation. And I wrote their numbers down in my notebook. Yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
their jersey numbers. So I sat down with Melvin English, shook his hand and started talking. And I said, you know, I don't have a clue who these people are that you want me to see, nor what's wrong with them other than the fact that they're injured. I said, but I'm curious, I'd like to read a list of jersey numbers off. And I'm curious how many of those guys are on my list that I'm here to see today.
00:11:13
Speaker
So I read each of the numbers off from their jerseys and he looked at me with a state of shock and said,
00:11:20
Speaker
Why did you choose those particular numbers? So I took them out and showed them how I did it. And he looked at me and said, that's exactly who you're here to see. Brilliant. When you consider there's like 42 guys on the team, that was pretty wild for them. So needless to say, I had some pretty intense credibility walking in the door. And he told the medical staff and they were freaked out. Fantastic. So I worked with them for about a week.
00:11:49
Speaker
Actually, one of the highest paid rugby player in the world at the time, Ricky Stewart, was basically being put into medical retirement right then and there. He had a spondylolisthesis at L5 and an L5 S1 disc bulge that was like seven or eight millimeter bulge pressing on the sciatic nerve.
00:12:11
Speaker
So they didn't know what the hell to do with them because everything they tried made him hurt. Yeah. And he had lost a lot of muscle mass and this is a pretty damn strong guy. And so I had to design a very complex rehab program because as you know, a disc injury requires mechanical movements that irritate a spondylolisthesis. So if you treat the disc injury, you irritate the spondylolisthesis. If you treat the spondylolisthesis, you're likely to make the disc injury worse. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:40
Speaker
I used Harry Farney's axial extension approach. Dr. Harry Farney, MD, a famous orthopedic surgeon from Vancouver, British Columbia that had studied native cultures all over the world to look at what their posture and biomechanics were and what was normal and looked at issues like sleeping postures and sexual correlation to spine injuries.
00:13:08
Speaker
in his research, and I actually met him in person and talked to him shortly before he died. Fortunately for me, I really wanted to meet this guy because I found his books mind blowing. And so I got to actually go meet him in person and have a chat with him. It was really one of the few people that I met in my career that really I had a lot of reverence for because as a medical doctor, he was a very, very open-minded, intelligent genius with the interest in everything to do with the human body, not just the skeletal system.
00:13:37
Speaker
And so I applied Harry Farney's axial extension principle, which is really the Tai Chi principle, lengthening the spine to neutralize the pressures on the disc and stabilize the vertebra structurally. And within eight weeks, Ricky Stewart was doing deadlifts and squats.
00:14:01
Speaker
for full workouts with his body weight with no pain and was back playing and managed to play two or three more years after that. So that was quite a success story. I also consulted for the All Blacks.
00:14:20
Speaker
And Greg Muller, one of our CP4s, who's, as you know, a very skilled strength coach, worked for the All Blacks for many years. And so I was brought in to help with challenge situations, complex issues.
00:14:34
Speaker
One of the athletes in particular was another one with a chronic hamstring injury again for three years. Again, no one could figure it out. But I tracked that one down to a psychological issue. He had a tremendous fear of responsibility because he was now being voted for as captain and it was a high goal scorer. But whenever the team didn't do well, people attacked him in the press. Right.
00:15:02
Speaker
What long story made short using the analysis I teach you guys, it became very clear that he had developed a fear of the responsibility of being a leader on the team because when things didn't go well, he got tremendous social pressure and even pressure from inside the team and his family and all sorts of stuff.
00:15:23
Speaker
So his root chakra was very, very overstimulated and even he would stand with his toes clenching the ground, which is a telltale sign that someone feels psychologically blown away. So we worked on that and got to some of the key issues there, resolved that.
00:15:42
Speaker
I was a consultant to the Auckland Blues, which is another professional rugby organization, again, through Greg Muller and worked for their team to help them. They had a whole bunch of injuries on the team when I got there and I, long story made short, I tracked it right down to the design of the exercise program. It was extremely intense and aggressive and way, way, way too heavy and just doing very dangerous things.
00:16:09
Speaker
weren't a good idea. And now Greg wasn't the strength coach at that time. Somebody else was, but, um, so I, I addressed that. I also worked for the, uh, uh, Newsy Canterbury Crusaders in New Zealand who had a bunch of injuries and I consulted them and taught them my system for assessing the core and correcting it, uh, consulted to their medical staff and they won the championship the next year. Um,
00:16:37
Speaker
Let's see, I consulted for the United States Air Force Academy. They had chronic shoulder injuries amongst their athletes and on the football team. So I identified why that was happening, taught them how to fix that up. I consulted for the Air Force Academy swim team and worked with them.
00:17:01
Speaker
Quite an amazing array of sports. Yes, I've worked with a lot of ballerinas. I've worked with Cirque du Soleil athletes.
00:17:11
Speaker
I've worked with many, uh, X top X game competitors over the years, many of the top, uh, motocross racers and stunt athletes and cyclists. And, um, I, I did some consulting for Sean white when, uh, when he was a young man. Um, yeah, you know, honestly, Matt, my, my.
00:17:34
Speaker
The 90s and from around 2000 to 2010, I was publishing, as you know, a lot of articles all over the world, lecturing all over the world, and I was getting these exact kind of requests
00:17:51
Speaker
from many Olympic committees. I've worked with the Danish Olympic committees, Strengthen Conditioning Unit, Karsten. Karsten's last name is, I'm forgetting it right now, but a long, long list. The Swedish national hockey team strength coaches have done consulting and training with me.
00:18:16
Speaker
I've worked for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I've worked for the Toronto Raptors on a couple of occasions. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I'd have to sit and really think about it. It was like I was just flying city to city, country to country, team to team. You know, I rehabilitated the top most valuable volleyball player in the world, Natalia Mamedova, through her trainer Boris Simarina from Serbia. Yeah, of course.
Medical Dousing and Holistic Healing
00:18:46
Speaker
So, yeah, you know, really, like, honestly, I've worked with so many elite athletes and teams and organizations that they all just sort of stream together, including
00:18:58
Speaker
major militaries and all sorts of things. Well, I was going to say, you know, because the one of the things which I don't think we've mentioned on this podcast, but you've certainly had various discussions on other podcasts on Living 4D with Paul Chek is that, you know, the Chek system has been certainly embraced by several elite forces, fighting forces, hasn't it? You've had people from, is it the Navy SEALs have been on the program and
00:19:27
Speaker
various other elite fighting forces as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we've had several Navy SEALs come through the program. And, you know, as you heard on the previous podcast, you're mentioning Greg Muller, and another man, Dean, I can't remember his last name, they were sent by the New Zealand military specifically to study my program to go back and completely rehabilitate
00:19:52
Speaker
how New Zealand soldiers were trained because of the high rate of injuries they were having. Yeah. So the basis of what New Zealand is doing with their soldiers has been very influenced by my teachings. Yeah. I've worked with other military organizations. I've had many people come through, as you saw, you know, Dean. I'm brain farting. It's with Deb Walker.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, Dale Walker took the influence of my training into the military there and you'd heard all about how he's using that training physiotherapists and soldiers now. I've had top secret, I had a top secret Black Ops organization contact me around 2005 looking for my advice on how to train, you know,
00:20:46
Speaker
basically like Delta Force Navy SEAL type soldiers that were being hired by private organizations in the Middle East. So there's been a fair bit of it.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah, because one of the things I wanted to link that into is that, you know, of course, in your training, you know, what you've taught me and taught many students over the years is the importance of a kind of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual approach to dealing with individuals. And as a part of that, one of the tools that you teach is medical dousing.
00:21:22
Speaker
And, you know, obviously, having come from a science based background with a couple of science based degrees, when you hear someone talking about dousing, I'm quite open minded. And I remember thinking, okay, well, you know, Paul doesn't, Paul's not, nobody's fallen. And so he's obviously looked into this. So I listened to what you got to say and, you know, give it a go. And
00:21:43
Speaker
I remember you explaining that this is a tool that has great antiquity, but also is used by special forces in some instances, used by oil companies, used by obviously the police and by CIA and so on. Can you expand a little bit on how you've applied dowsing medically with your clients?
00:22:09
Speaker
Yes, I'd love to start by telling you how I gained the confidence in the methodology first. When I was 18, I worked on an exploration and water well drilling crew for a living.
00:22:26
Speaker
Most of our work was either exploration for people like Gulf Oil looking for coal, but the grand majority of it was drilling water wells for people. And a lot of our water wells were deep because I was on Vancouver Island, it's very rocky and mountainous. And so sometimes we were drilling 1500 feet or more for water. And at that time it was $25 a foot.
00:22:51
Speaker
to drill. So it was normal for a well to cost anywhere from 10 to $25,000. And a lot of people really had put every penny they had to get water after building a house or they were going to build a house. And it's a wild card, how much is it going to cost? So the way you decide where to drill is you douse.
00:23:14
Speaker
So typically on in this there's a number of ways to do it but the dowser on our crew was a guy named Al. He used brazing rods so he would take a brass brazing rod bend it into the shape of an L so he had a handle and then he would point the rods forward so it looked like you know two metal rods perpendicular to the earth horizontal. Yeah.
00:23:37
Speaker
And I would watch him do this, and he would walk all over the property, and all of a sudden these rods would close. And then he would keep walking, and when he had crossed the underground stream, the rods would open up again. So what he showed me is that because of the electromagnetic energy produced by running water in the Earth, it actually creates an electromagnetic field, and the rods pick that up.
00:24:03
Speaker
So once you enter the field created by the flowing water underground, the rods react to it almost like you stuck a magnet between them strong enough to pull them together. And I used to watch it and I would just, you know, I was only young and but I had a strong mechanical background and I understood the basics of these principles. But I always thought it was like kind of magic. Like I don't know how he does that. I understood the electromagnetism, but I didn't know how he was doing it and how it was happening through his body.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah so what happened was we got to this guy's property and we drilled a hole where alla doused it but we got to the end of our depth and we actually got to the end of his money he only had ten thousand dollars and that was it he was out of money we drilled right past that we even drilled an extra hundred feet looking for water because we felt felt sorry for the guy
00:24:56
Speaker
So then we decided as a team to work for free for the guy. So we, Al said, you know what, maybe Mark should try. So he let Mark the head driller try. He doused what he thought was the right spot. We drilled another hole and then we drilled, you know, another $10,000 hole and got nothing. So they all looked at me and said, Paul, why don't you get him at a try? You're the only one that hasn't tried. So I,
00:25:21
Speaker
just emptied myself because remember I'd been trained in meditation and I just relaxed and I just trusted and I started walking around the property and I walked it was you know a couple acres and sure enough I found a real strong
00:25:34
Speaker
Closure on the rods and then I've marked where they opened again and I went four directions And so we we kind of triangulated we drilled and we got the guy a real nice well And everybody was blown away that I found the water And from that day on I was I was made the the the dowser for the drill team, right? And I never missed a well for the entire year that I worked with them from that time on Fantastic. Fantastic. So when it came when I
00:26:01
Speaker
Yes, so when it came into to how to apply I had studied books on medical dowsing I have several of them in my library, you know, probably 25 of them or more and so I already realized what dowsing was and I realized it was real and I realized I'd been able to help people with it and accurately find water where other people couldn't find water and so I just applied the same willingness openness and technique and
00:26:29
Speaker
to medical dousing and I've been able to help countless people where other people could not figure out what was wrong, where lab tests said this was wrong or that was wrong, but they didn't realize they were actually seeing the symptoms of something much deeper. And that gave me the confidence to continue it as a practice and I do to this day and I've been doing this for a very long time. I probably started medical dousing, I would imagine around, oh,
00:26:58
Speaker
to around the year 2000, if not before. Yeah. Just because I was drawn to it.
00:27:06
Speaker
And so obviously, as you know, I teach it in HLC3 and I've seen some of the students just on their first try be very, very good at dowsing. Yeah. I remember you probably want me to explain how it works. Well, that would be that would be amazing. One thing, one story I was going to tell briefly was that I somehow got into talking about this on an osteopathic forum. And, you know, as you can imagine, there's some osteopaths that very open to this kind of thing and others that, you know, more again of that sort of, let's say,
00:27:36
Speaker
standard scientific approach which who are very skeptical and I remember Leon Chato jumped into the discussion he said look you know I don't know the science behind it but I can tell you that here on Cyprus which is where he lived
00:27:52
Speaker
if you want a well dug or drill, then you have to get the local dowser in and he'll come and find the spot for you and he'll drill down. So that was his experience as well. And being the authority that he was, it kind of helped me with my cause. But one of the things I've heard you say, which I love, and I always explain to the students if I'm talking about this,
00:28:15
Speaker
is that you said that faith begins when knowledge ends and yes you know you gave the example you wouldn't douse the range of motion in someone's shoulder for example because you can measure that with a goniometer but yes where you don't know that's where the dousing comes in so i just thought i'd throw that in there in case it wasn't at the forefront of your mind well yeah and i'd forgotten about that but it's very true and
00:28:43
Speaker
So to explain dowsing, it's not just an A squared plus B squared. There's some depth to it. And you have to really understand and appreciate a couple of things. One, you've got to appreciate what mind is. Two, you've got to appreciate subtle energy fields and realize that the physical body that the scientific materialists worship is really the condensation of the consciousness or the flow of energy and information
00:29:13
Speaker
from the universe into each living being and each thing period. I mean, all there really is at the basis of all creation is two things, energy and information. So if you say, well, where does it all come from? It comes from the zero point field or the absolute. It comes from that which cannot be known or measured in our philosophy. It's the zero force or zero itself.
00:29:38
Speaker
which
Integration of Shamanic Practices
00:29:39
Speaker
used to be called potentia in philosophical teachings because they all realized something was coming out of nothing. In alchemy it was called the dragon and the emergence of consciousness as something was called the prima matria, the first matter. So when you look at the very basis of consciousness or the absolute, that which is witnessing all, is the two qualities, the empty and the full.
00:30:08
Speaker
And when those two qualities meet, they're constantly becoming each other, which is what produces the flow of energy and information or what is really called spirit. Then you have the container in which each form is expressed from an atom on up. Steiner said anything with an inside and an outside, including an atom, has a soul.
00:30:32
Speaker
So there is the receptive end. So the spirit of energy and information flows into form, and the form itself is unique because it's different than every other form. There's no two snowflakes alike. All of us look different. Every rock is different.
00:30:51
Speaker
So the receptive end of that is the soul. Now, the movement of the flow of energy and information into any form, any form that is something other than empty space, actually produces a frequency and produces a modulation of the energy and information. For example, you get up and go to the toilet, well, your whole body's moving and your entire form is flowing, but you're flowing with
00:31:19
Speaker
energy and information because there's something you want to do. Go to the toilet, get some food, drive to the local store. So really, mind is the sum totality of the interchange between that which is empty and that which is full, the vacuum and the plenum. So all things that exist are really expressions of mind. Mind means vibration. So the sum total of vibration is mind itself.
00:31:47
Speaker
And the condensation of the consciousness of the flow of energy and information is what's represented in form as matter, including human bodies. So when you're dousing, one, you have to realize that your mind is only yours.
00:32:04
Speaker
to the degree that your programming contains information that's unique to your own experience. So Matthew has his own life experiences, Paul has his own life experiences, but in reality Matthew is like a neuron in an ocean which is the brain of the universe and all of Matthew's experiences are being uploaded in real time into the fields of information such as
00:32:29
Speaker
your own personal conscious, your personal unconscious, the collective unconscious, and then you have morphogenic fields and information fields that hold the information that create the formation and record the experience. The soul is what's having the experience and spirit is what's giving the energy and information that produces the experience, but the soul is actually what's
00:32:55
Speaker
interfacing with the global or the cosmic mind. So why that's important to understand is because when I'm dousing, like if I'm dousing Matthew Walden, say I'm dousing your health appraisal questionnaire and I got 29 systems and for a bail it's less but you know you've got all sorts of scores on there and I then connect to the soul of Matthew Walden. I say dear soul please connect me to the soul of Matthew Walden
00:33:25
Speaker
And I'm usually I'll touch your handwriting where you've signed a document, like one of my documents, because that picks up your unique signature. No one's handwriting is the same as anybody else. That's just like your fingerprints, isn't I don't have to do that. But sometimes I do that because I want a stronger connection. And so when my soul has connected to your soul, I just my soul gives me a big surge of energy, which is a yes, we are connected.
00:33:51
Speaker
So now I begin speaking with your soul, and I've been practicing this for a long time. So basically I'll say, dear soul of Matthew Walden, I'm here to support you in your healing, your growth, and living your dreams. Would you be willing to guide me to determining what Matthew's health appraisal questionnaire scores are at this moment so I have accurate readings and can effectively assess him?
00:34:19
Speaker
And I'll get a yes in most instances. It's too much to go into as to what happens when you get a no and why. So then I just go to each section. So I might go to the adrenal column or the thyroid column. And there's a graph there. And I say, tell me when my finger is on the right score for Matthew as he is right now. And I just do each column. Now, I can ask any question I want to. Is Matthew happy? Whatever.
00:34:47
Speaker
But as I teach, you never want to use dowsing in an invasive way because that produces very negative karma and that's really classified as black magic. So if you use this technique to manipulate people or to gather information that you have not gotten permission from their soul or from them directly, then you're practicing the dark arts. And so I heavily encourage my students to never do that.
00:35:17
Speaker
The point is that's how you do it. And the reason I gave that explanation is because if you don't really understand what the universe is, if you don't understand what a human being is, what spirit is, what soul is, what mind is, what individual mind versus
00:35:34
Speaker
collective mind versus morphogenic fields versus world mind versus cosmic mind, then you're going to try to figure out dousing based on a scientific materialist perspective and you're going to hit a dead end. But people that hit that dead end
00:35:53
Speaker
just haven't become mature enough to look deeper and realize that the scientific materialist approach isn't very effective, which is why with all the technology we have today and all the doctors and all the therapists and all the health food stores and all the gyms and all the trainers and all the massage therapists, we're the sickest people we've ever been in history.
00:36:11
Speaker
Yeah. And so what do people do? They have to hire guys like me and you that work outside that very narrow paradigm. And so that's how I would kind of classify dowsing. Sure, sure. Okay, brilliant. So we're still in the early 2000s. And you know, one of the things I remember you telling me at one time was I seem to recall when you offered an honorary PhD by by someone by a group that you've spoken to. Was it was it in Germany or? No. What was that? No.
00:36:41
Speaker
No, it wasn't an honorary PhD. I found out about a university called the Union Institute or Union University that would allow you to do a master's or a PhD without having a bachelor's degree. And so
00:37:01
Speaker
They basically were a university for working people that would reward you credit for actual on-the-job training and anything you could demonstrate where you actually had gotten real training. So I had to get like 10 letters from highly acclaimed people that could verify my knowledge and skill. And I got letters from presidents of universities and orthopedic surgeons and heads of hospitals and all sorts of stuff.
00:37:30
Speaker
I wrote up almost probably a 500 page document and I challenged for five master's degrees in five different areas. And I had the documentation from people that would not give that kind of letter if I hadn't really achieved it.
00:37:51
Speaker
Then they take that challenge before a panel of 10 PhDs, and they have to get a unanimous vote to get you in if you don't have a previous college degree. Well, I got seven out of 10 in the vote, and three of them said I didn't have enough general education to do a master's or a PhD, but that if I would get an associate's degree, they would let me go ahead and challenge on all five levels.
00:38:21
Speaker
Right, right, well. But I just had no desire to go get an associate's degree. It was just a waste of time. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yes, okay. So as you're moving through those early 2000s, you started to develop an interest in shamanism and develop your whole PPS program, which came first. Were you already involved with shamanism and exploring that before you developed the PPS?
00:38:52
Speaker
Well, I had studied native cultures quite a lot. My mother's a sculptor and she had a lot of information. And we were led to believe until we did our 23andMe that our father was Cherokee Indian. So we'd always believed we were Cherokee Indian. I was told I was a 25% Cherokee Indian.
00:39:13
Speaker
Once we got the 23andMe test, my sister did a lot of investigation, which is still going on. We found out that actually was a story that was made up in the family, but it wasn't true. But the result of that was we all, all of us in the family studied a lot of Indian stuff and Cherokee Indian history.
00:39:34
Speaker
And living on Vancouver Island and my parents having a woolen business, we work with the Haida Indians, we're our main customers. So I got to meet and talk to a lot of the Haida's and that was very interesting to me. And so what happened is once I started working with and training with a medicine care in the use of psychedelic medicines,
00:40:02
Speaker
I wanted to really understand the shamanic history of it. And I'd also studied a lot of Terence McKenna's teachings and one of his two-day workshops on the theory, practice, science, history, and philosophy of using psychedelic medicines. And so I did an extensive study of shamanism, but to get my license so I could work with the medicines legally, I went to the Native American Council
00:40:32
Speaker
and uh, did, and, and got through, you know, did the requirements for, through their training to
The PPS Program and Archetypal Challenges
00:40:39
Speaker
become a medicine man spirit guide, which in the process I was studying Marceal Eliade's work, uh, Joseph Campbell's work. Um, and I probably have, you know, 150 books on shamanism in my library. So I really studied a lot. Uh, I began meeting shaman and talking to them and,
00:41:00
Speaker
studying what worked well, what type of people responded well with shamanic approaches, what didn't, and then correlating what I saw. And having had many people come to me that had already seen shaman and not gotten fully rehabilitated or cleared the problem effectively, I was able to see a pattern of what the shaman were doing and what they were missing.
00:41:24
Speaker
So through that process, I developed my own system that I call modern shamanism. And I also studied the work of Arnie Mendel, who's a union analyst, very advanced knowledge in math, very advanced knowledge in science.
00:41:39
Speaker
He was President Obama's personal physician. He developed a system that he calls process psychology. And he's also a shaman, and his books are very, very deep. And so I got a nice expanded view of what I would call modern shamanism from studying Mindel's work.
00:42:01
Speaker
And what I found is that really a lot of what I teach through the Czech Institute, particularly the holistic lifestyle coaching program is very congruent with the teachings of shaman and medicine men worldwide, especially the medicine men. Yeah. Yeah. So I basically did a lot of study and my soul took me into a year of, as you know, being a vegetarian.
00:42:24
Speaker
And in that time, I was having a lot of very deep, profound openings and would get up every morning at 3.30 and go into meditation and do Egyptian sun gazing and work with rattles and drums and various smoke mixes and ceremonial practices and native chants and songs.
00:42:47
Speaker
And so I spent a year immersed in this being guided by my soul and had a lot of very profound experiences and was able to help a lot of people using what I was being taught. And Dr. Oliver and I offered sound or energy healings and sound healings for quite some number of years in HLC2 and we had very profound things happen and got letters from people from all over the world.
00:43:12
Speaker
that had wild healings and transformations. So I ultimately used all that study and all that investigation to put together my own system. So what I do privately is different than what I teach through the Czech Institute because I couldn't really teach that unless I've developed an entire training program on the integration of shamanic practices and methodology with the Czech system. But what I can teach is in the system.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And what I can teach as part of our curriculum. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. And so did the so you did the PPS, which is personal professional spiritual mastery program. That was 2006. Wasn't it that came out? Yes. And I just you just reminded me if I can share something. When I was a kid, you know, I began having mystical experiences and a lot of out of body experiences.
00:44:09
Speaker
which I later learned is called remote viewing. And so in, as you know, cause you were there, what was it 2002? We went to the field conference together. Yeah. So they had a one day course, as you know, cause you were there in it with me by the director of the CIA's remote viewing program. There was 750 people in the audience with us for that course. And as you know, I won the contest at the end of the course. Uh, so
00:44:39
Speaker
My point in sharing that is, you see, I had sort of had a shamanic initiation. I had a very, very brutal childhood that pushed me very deep into myself. I'd also had a bad head injury where I was in a concussion for two days. And I had some very profound spiritual experiences along with these out of body experiences. And so my point is,
00:45:07
Speaker
In 2002, you sat with me and watched me demonstrate what would be classic shamanic ability. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So my point is my studies of this began in my childhood through real experiences. And then I looked into the history of it all to try to see what was happening inside of me and in which traditions
00:45:33
Speaker
were these types of things common or embraced or known of. And I found out that these skills are used by medicine men and shaman worldwide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that's where you studied a lot of Joseph Campbell's work as well and his, you know, sort of hero's journey and so on. Yeah, but so with the PPS program, would you say that that was sort of part of the sort of shamanic unfolding of your work or was that almost prior to you
00:46:03
Speaker
introducing more shamanic principles? No, that was what I was really deep in my immersion and doing, you know, I went to Master Fang Han 2002. So I'd done years of Tai Chi by then, and meditation and Egyptian sun gazing and various other practices. But
00:46:29
Speaker
I forgot. What were you asking me about? Well, oh, the PPS program. Yeah. So really what PPS was is I kept seeing a pattern over and over again, because by now I'd had a lot of clinical experiences. You can imagine, you remember, I started doing this when I was 24 years old, full time. So by this time, I'm in, you know, what my, I'm 37, 38, maybe.
00:46:57
Speaker
So I'd actually come to notice that I when I looked into the stories behind people's challenges and their injuries from the best athletes in the world to the most rich executives at one point, I had six billionaires flying jets to see me for help at the same time. And I've also had people second mortgage houses and sell cars to come see me. So I've worked with and I've worked with I own a physical therapy clinic. So I work with all sorts of
00:47:26
Speaker
field workers and migrant workers and, you know, what we would call blue collar workers. So I've worked the field from the very rich and famous to the people barely making enough to survive. And it dawned on me that the same pattern sort of almost like archetypal patterns kept reoccurring. And so I began
00:47:50
Speaker
looking through all my case histories and saying, OK, I want to look and see what are the most common themes that are behind people's physical, emotional, mental and spiritual challenges in life. And I identified that there was 12 key things that kept popping up over and over again.
00:48:08
Speaker
So I built a lesson in the PPS Success Mastery Program to address each of those 12, what I called roadblocks to success. So each of the 12 lessons deals with one of the common themes that comes up either in an individual or any individual could have any number of those 12 at once. But I found that at the root of everybody's challenges was the circle of 12 spokes
00:48:37
Speaker
of, shall we say, archetypal challenges or experiences. And so I wanted, the PPS program was designed to give people the awareness, the tools, the assessment tools and a process so they could bring into consciousness what is largely unconscious in most people and then begin to work with reprogramming themselves
00:49:02
Speaker
and learning more about how their bodies, their minds and their emotions and life works. So that's what drove the PPS program. Right. Because one of the key focuses at the beginning of the program is to identify your legacy or your big dream, as it were, for your life. And I think
00:49:25
Speaker
you know, it strikes me that that obviously then informed the one, two, three, four approach, which you developed a little bit later in the in the 2000s, as it were. Because that's the number one, isn't it? Of the one, two, three, four. So my understanding is that
00:49:40
Speaker
because I did my level four training with you in 2005. And I think it was the level four training that you did either after that or perhaps two after that, where you presented the one, two, three, four, I think as kind of the key, one of the key focuses of the training. And then you expand it into the whole check system. Is that right? Yeah, pretty much.
00:50:04
Speaker
You know, it's because it's we're talking, you know, my career is now 35 years long. Sometimes it's hard for me to remember exact starting times. Yeah. But you know, what happened to me was that I kept having instructors and really sharp students that were like level three and level four, check practitioners. And some of them had done it back in those days was the early days of NLC training, which is you probably know, was pretty intensive and comprehensive.
00:50:34
Speaker
So what happened is people that I really respected would come to me and say, Paul, you know, I'm overwhelmed because you've taught me how to do so much assessment that I end up with a sea of data. But oftentimes people have so many problems and they're so complicated and I got so much data, I don't know where to begin.
00:50:56
Speaker
how do I put all this data to work and know what to start with? Because Czech professionals all over the world quickly started getting reputations for the guided person to go to when you have a complex case, right? So I heard this several times, like by the time I'd heard this five times, it was kind of like, you know, the universe was saying, it's time for you to synthesize
00:51:25
Speaker
a system to help your students and people in general organize how do you go about methodically breaking a case down and deciding what is the most important thing to do first and what areas you got to make sure you look in so you don't think you know what's going on but realize you really don't. And so I went into meditation, talked to my soul and meditated on this and it probably took me about three months of meditation
00:51:55
Speaker
But one day my soul said get your notebook and go for a walk and finally it all kind of the intuitive Download came long story made short as I was walking my soul Said things like well, what's the most important thing you got to look into? Before you can help anybody heal
00:52:11
Speaker
Because if you don't look into it, they don't have any reason to heal. And my first reaction was, well, what they love enough to heal for. And my soul said right that day. So long story short, I went for this five mile hike in the trails out in the hills behind my house. And by the time I got back, my soul had given me the one, two, three, four model and showed me that the four doctor model looked at the key philosophical
00:52:42
Speaker
what I call living philosophical areas that you have to be conscious of or you will leave a gaping hole in your life, your health, your vitality.
00:52:53
Speaker
So, Dr. Happy, obviously, what is happy making for you and what are your values that you're going to live by? Dr. Movement, how are you going to move to be healthy, vital, and accomplish your dream? Dr. Quiet, how much rest do you need? What type and when? And Dr. Diet, how should you be eating for your optimal individual needs? So, the one, two, three, four was one, what do you love enough? Two,
00:53:20
Speaker
the two forces that create everything, the female and the male, the empty and the full, the yin and the yang, the moist and the cool and the hot and the fiery, receptive, expressive,
00:53:32
Speaker
So the whole assessment is really identifying where is somebody underutilized or under moving or over resting or to yin relative to yang. So if someone's adrenal fatigue, they're excess yang, they're burned out. If they're hypothyroid, they're excess yin. So basically using this very simple structure to identify imbalances in homeostatic regulation,
00:54:02
Speaker
I then was able to classify each of the key systems in their body such as adrenal, limbic, digestive, eliminative, whatever, hormonal,
00:54:14
Speaker
And then we had to make choices. So the three choices, the optimal, the suboptimal or do nothing, which anybody that goes into my teachings can figure out what that means. And then we have the for doctor model. So now that we know what their dream is and why they're here and what they're willing to do, we know where they're out of balance. We know that we have to help the client establish healthy for doctor values.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. So we look at how they are coming in the door and then we say, okay, here's the values you've been living consciously or unconsciously. Here's what it's produced for you. That's why you're here. Now let's explore what you're willing to do to create happiness for yourself. Let's look at what I feel is the right amount of movement for you and how we can design a program that will be something you can actually do and are willing to do. Let's
Holistic Health Models
00:55:00
Speaker
teach you how to eat right for your individual needs.
00:55:03
Speaker
and the importance of organic food and let's look carefully at your rest strategy statically and dynamically. In other words, sleeping versus active and passive rest principles for when they're exercising or working. And I found that if you address those things in that order and you prioritize the four doctor action items to the ones that had the most common denominator connections. In other words, if sleep turns out to be
00:55:32
Speaker
a deficiency that can also throw off your metabolism that can lead to all sorts of binge eating so it can have a dietary function it can leave you too tired and making excuses about why you don't want to exercise a movement function it can make you too tired to dream because you go into survival mode so all you think about is how shitty your life is and how tired you are all the time yeah so basically what i'm saying is that you can't really effectively design any kind of rehabilitation
00:56:01
Speaker
or life plan if you leave any one of those four doctors untended because they each interact with each other to such a strong degree that you can think you're doing one thing right but not realizing that the rate of disability that's affecting that system because they're not sleeping, for example, is far higher than your mobilizations, your therapy, your supplements, or your Tony Robbins
00:56:26
Speaker
motivational speaking is going to ever deal with. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And so the Four Doctors that you've obviously just expanded on there, that was also, oh, it is a book, isn't it? Yeah. And there was a story behind the book because didn't you get approached by, was it Dan Millman? Yes. One of the publishers working with Dan Millman, this is, you know, back quite a long time ago when the internet was still kind of coming alive and
00:56:53
Speaker
and publishing e-books was just starting to boom. And this company reached out to me and said, we published Dan Millman's works and we surveyed authors all over the world to try to find somebody that can add some kind of holistic content about exercise, diet, and lifestyle that would be supportive of Dan Millman's spiritual teachings. And we've chosen you. Would you be interested in writing this book?
00:57:22
Speaker
a book for us. Do you think it's something you can do? I said, absolutely, because it just turned out that I had now been utilizing my Ford doctor model for about a year, tested it and knew it was bang on. And they said, oh, but there's only one caveat. We need the book in two weeks because they had another offer that had backed out. And so that's why they had to go looking for somebody else.
00:57:47
Speaker
And I, well, it just happened. I was flying to Australia like two days later to teach HLC, uh, two and three, I think back to back. So I actually wrote the four doctors, multimedia ebook at night after teaching and got it to them on the deadline. And so then they, they, uh, use that. And then we also sold it. It was as well, because that was part of the deal. And then.
00:58:16
Speaker
Penny did a small print run of them for a special event where I was a keynote speaker. But, you know, I've incorporated the key principles of the four doctors multimedia ebook into the second edition of How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy. So now you begin the book.
00:58:34
Speaker
by understanding what the four doctors are and establishing your four doctor values as step one to using the how to eat, move and be healthy system. Excellent. Excellent. And so that was in the sort of latter half of the 2000s, I believe. I think it was 2006 2007, something like that.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah, around 2006, I think. We didn't cover, though, the writing of How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy, did we? No. Actually, we did mention it, but we didn't talk a lot about the actual writing of it. So go on.
00:59:09
Speaker
I think that's an important step. Sort of what happened was by about, it took me three years to write How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy due to the fact that I had a full clinical practice. And my initial four chapters were over 100 pages each. And so my editor and assistant Cara Burke, who is a genius of a woman, graduated 4.0 from UCSD with a degree in biology and was a gymnast.
00:59:38
Speaker
and a great athlete, one of the most incredible athletes I ever met in my life. She worked as my assistant for seven years. And between her and Penny, they kept telling me, Paul, this is way too technical for the public. And I'm like, oh, frustrated because I'm like, I can't write simpler than that. I don't want to tell lies to people. And I'd never written, you know, a public document like that before.
00:59:58
Speaker
only technical stuff as you know and so I kept having to refine and refine and refine and narrow it down narrow it down so that's what took so long and originally I had 24 chapters planned for the book and I had to cut that down because it turned out that was enough for two books.
01:00:14
Speaker
And so, but what happened was sort of the same situation as I described before where the instructors and students were complaining that they couldn't figure out how to use all the information, except what was happening is I would be sitting in clinic.
01:00:30
Speaker
And I kept having to teach people how to read their poops over and over again and what normal digestion is and what a food intolerance is and how to stretch this and how to exercise that and what core dysfunction was. And it dawned on me one day, why do I keep waiting for people to come learn this stuff? Yeah.
01:00:51
Speaker
and wait until they're injured when everybody needs to know this. This should be taught in elementary school so we know how to take care of ourselves. This should be part of our education system.
01:01:02
Speaker
And so I had so much empathy for people and just walking, you know, as you know, with a guy with my skill walking around in a shopping mall, I just see, you know, dead people walking everywhere. I want to run up and hug everybody and say, look, let me show you how to get rid of all this body fat and get rid of that limp of ears. And so it, you know, from a spiritual perspective, it became very heavy in my heart. I felt
01:01:24
Speaker
a moral responsibility to write that book so what i did is i took all my handouts that i'd accumulated over years and had artists create for me from my sketches and i strung them together so how to eat move and be healthy is really all my patient handouts put into a book form with the instructions that i basically have to tell everybody if i work with yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah okay okay
01:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, I remember that being a big old project because every time I spoke to you, it was like, you know, just when I get this done, then I can begin to work on my next project. And and that was the same kind of theme for a number of months, if not years. And then it came out and it's been a great success as well, hasn't it? Do you know how many copies you sold now or you're not sure? We're around 180,000. Yeah, for self published book. That's pretty impressive.
01:02:16
Speaker
Yeah, you know, considering 90% of all books published go out of print after their first run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good. I wanted to dip into the story. I think it was around 2008, you sent a copy of Eat, Move and Be Healthy, How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy to Andre Bleaming, and or Scientific Back Training, something like that. Do you recall that story? Which kind of led into... Oh, I remember...
01:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, I sent, I had met Andrei Vliming before along the way somewhere at a course or a conference. I can't remember. I think he knew who I was at the time, but I had told him about the book along the way, but I said, I'd love to send you a copy, see what you think. And I also sent him a scientific core conditioning. Back then it was VHS tape, I think.
01:03:12
Speaker
I sent him scientific back training. I sent him program design. I think I might have even sent him advanced program design. And him and I also had a connection because we had both done training with Vladimir Yanda and Carol Levitt. So we had that connection there.
01:03:34
Speaker
But anyhow, I sent him how to eat and be healthy and he wrote me a beautiful letter saying it was just a mind-blowing book and he said that if he wasn't stuck in a tenured professorship, he would actually be very interested in coming and studying with me personally because he found what I had put together was so important.
01:03:53
Speaker
He just had nothing but positive comments about what I was sharing in my resources, my courses and my book. Yeah, fantastic. And off the back of that, was that what got you invited to become one of the panel for the World Congress on Low Back Pain? Well, I think that was you, wasn't it?
01:04:11
Speaker
No, no, I was presenting, but I think the thing was that from what I recall, he was so impressed with your work that he invited you straight into the panel, of which there are only about eight people in the world that are invited onto that panel for the World Congress and Low Back Pain, which is being held in LA in 2010. And I'm going to get a keynote at that conference, or Congress, I should say.
01:04:41
Speaker
And then from what I recall, there was some kind of backlash where they said, some members of the panel or the organizing committee said, well, hang on, Paul can't speak on his own because he's not a qualified, he doesn't have a degree or whatever. And so you could only present if you had a doctor or a medical doctor or someone with a PhD standing alongside you, something. Oh, right. Yeah, they tried to pair me up with some doctor from Australia.
01:05:09
Speaker
I had a couple of email exchanges with him and he was very condescending. I was just some go boy and he was basically going to take over the whole presentation and I was just going to sit there and be a bump on a log. I said to Andre, look, I've been dealing with that attitude my whole career from doctors and therapists of all types.
01:05:33
Speaker
And I said, you know, if you think I'm going to sit up there and be somebody else's shoe fly, you're crazy. I said, so I'm not interested. Yeah, yeah. It was a real shame that it all panned out that way because it looked very promising at the time. It's a very interesting kind of reflection, kind of similar to what you were saying about your chapter in the chiropractic approach to head pain and how they wanted. Yeah, yeah.
01:06:00
Speaker
So yeah, i've had so much of this go on in my career matt it's
01:06:05
Speaker
There's been times where I really, I just felt like crying. I was so frustrated. It's so sad when you produce so much objective results. I mean, long is the list of elite athletes and organizations that can clearly say what I teach and what I do worked really well. I mean, I brought three of the greatest athletes in the world out of medical retirement to go on and have amazing careers.
01:06:32
Speaker
From richard dunwoody to danny way to gary roberts to ricky stewart and and several others of the robbie madison one of the most famous motorcycle stuntmen in the world was completely shut down and see a very bad accident and subluxed.
01:06:51
Speaker
one of his ribs right into the aorta of his heart and nobody would touch him and the doctors told him he could never ride his motorcycle. They didn't even want him to jump or move quickly because they didn't know if that rib had punctured the aorta and he would bleed to death immediately.
01:07:04
Speaker
And so he was depressed and came to me going like, you know, what do I do? So I evaluated him very carefully. And in about eight minutes, I put his rib back in place. And he's been setting
Psyche, Physiology, and Alchemy
01:07:17
Speaker
world records and things for several years since. So, I mean, when you're
01:07:24
Speaker
when you're me knowing the truth and having spent my whole life studying with the best doctors and therapists and devoting my life fully to honest research, clinical observation, empirical research, development practice, inventing technologies. And then you've got people acting like they know their shit and you're just a nobody. I have no, you know,
01:07:50
Speaker
I'm an ex boxer kickboxer paratrooper guy that can look the devil in the eyes and so when I get false When I get these fake experts trying to breathe their shit on to me, I don't do well with that behavior at all And I'm not one to to stand there and just take it either as you know so I've had some very interesting and intense discussions with some of these
01:08:19
Speaker
blow up dolls yeah yeah yeah well one of the reasons i was pushing you a little bit earlier on the pps program is that i remember off the back of that program having a chat with your assistant at the time vidya who i forget what a qualification she had but she had some kind of psychology background and um i remember her saying to me that there was there was um
01:08:40
Speaker
know, the PPS program was fantastic, but there was no real exploration of Jungian psychology in it. And, and that was probably when I had that conversation with her was maybe 2006 2007. And, and then
01:08:57
Speaker
What I noticed was that you did your normal thing and dived into Jungian psychologists just like you had with Ken Wilber's work and with Steiner's work and with Osho's work and suddenly you're in there in the Jungian world and emerging from that in the 2010s or the teens, let's say,
01:09:16
Speaker
the check for quadrant model has has arisen, I believe from that and the process alchemy. So do you want to tell us a bit about your explorations into Jungian psychology and how that led on to new developments in in your work? Yeah, I had actually known of Jung and had been studying Jung, but Jung so deep.
01:09:40
Speaker
that to really go from an intellectual understanding which is hard to get because it's very deep materials like studying Rudolf Steiner for example. And I've studied Steiner for years and it took me probably three years of studying Steiner before I really started to truly understand what he was saying.
01:09:59
Speaker
because there's a whole other language and Jung developed the entire field of depth psychology. He really brought alchemy kind of out of the dark ages into the world and created really psychological alchemy, which was there all along, but nobody had deciphered it. And so, yeah, Vijay has got a master's in psychology and she's a family and marriage counselor.
01:10:23
Speaker
So I always enjoyed having her as my assistant because I could get a good evaluation with her knowledge base as to what I was teaching and what I found to be real and true. But it took me several years of studying Jung. And as you know, I have his entire collected works and probably over 200 books written by either him or his famous analysts around the world. But once I reached the point where I had enough experience working with my clients and applying these techniques,
01:10:52
Speaker
to have confidence in them and looking at them in my own life and doing lots. And I've got many books on healing exercises and techniques by Jungian analysts, from sand play to mandala work, to journaling, to many, many techniques. And as you know, I do all these things. And so once I got to the point where I could then
01:11:20
Speaker
understand it with enough depth and have evidence that the way I had packaged it was palatable to the people I was working with, be they the patients or the students. Then I reached the confidence where I could say, okay, now I can put this into something that I can teach because I know for sure it works and it works on me, it works on my clients and it works for my students that apply it.
01:11:46
Speaker
And so with the check for quadrant coaching system, I'd also, while I was studying Jung and Jung's extensive writings on alchemy, I also tracked down many of the resources that he used in his paper trail, studied them, and studied a number of alchemists, and even studied Steiner's work on alchemy, because there's a lot of it in Steiner's biodynamic farming system.
01:12:15
Speaker
And so what I did was I took the four doctor model and the outer ring of the diagram of the four doctor model in my alchemy system deals largely with the physical systems or physiology and the inner system, what I call sun face, is the union approach to figuring out why the physiology is behaving like it is.
01:12:41
Speaker
If you think of the psyche as a rainbow bridge and at the crown chakra violet, that would be high energy, high vibration, source information or spirit flowing into us. And then as you go down towards red, the root chakra, you're now getting matter. So the old saying is matter is spirit moving slowly enough that you can interact with it. So what I basically identified was that
01:13:10
Speaker
The inner systems which largely deal with the seventh, the sixth, and the fifth chakra integrate, and the inner systems are your psyche, your personal conscious, your unconscious, the collective unconscious, the four functions of consciousness, which are thinking, feeling, sensation, and intuition. What is your dream? What is your myth? And then Ken Wilber's Four Quadrants. So that basically tells us
01:13:37
Speaker
how to look for the creative forces behind how the physiology is responding because if you just think of the body like a living mirror, the body is mirroring the psyche. So when you're unhappy about something,
01:13:54
Speaker
which is intangible. It might be you're unhappy about the religious studies that you're doing because they don't pan out to be very true in your life or they're confusing. Then your body shows a person who's in a posture and with gestures and with the biological changes that go with being unhappy. Yeah. So
01:14:14
Speaker
basically, you know, through all my years of researching and testing and working with the material, I found that you have to look at a person from the top down to belief system down. And you also have to look at a person from the bottom up because their biochemistry can be just as disruptive to their thoughts, feelings and emotions as the thoughts, feelings and emotions can to the body and the biochemistry. And so with posture, right?
01:14:39
Speaker
And we know that for example with Botox, when they do Botox on women's faces and paralyze the muscles that they use to smile, their entire brain changes and they often end up in severe states of depression because they can't smile. So you see if you alter the physiology and the function or the static and dynamic postural systems,
01:15:01
Speaker
It also sends the message to the psyche that that's real in other words i can't smile so i'm unhappy in the psyche respond in kind so it's sort of like you know assign these twin situation where.
01:15:16
Speaker
neither head can move or neither body can move without the other cuz they're joined in the middle so to speak yeah yeah so the four quadrant system is really the four quadrant coaching system is looking at what information do you have to gather shall we say from the each of the chakra systems in the psychological themes what archetypes do you need to look at
01:15:35
Speaker
Where do they have shadow issues what techniques to use to unveil the shadow where do they have a family relationship challenges developmental challenges genetic influences social influences religious influences. Where do they have problems from the world stage lower right hand quadrant such as environmental toxicity living in crowded spaces.
01:16:02
Speaker
you know, ergonomic challenges, not being in condition to do what their job demands them. Yeah. And then I took all my research and work with the science of, of overcoming addiction. And I've developed a whole course on that called the one, two, three, four for overcoming addiction, obesity and disease. So I'd research that a lot in my work with piles and piles of addicts. I mean, almost everybody I work with is some kind of an addict. I mean, addiction is really common. Yeah. And so,
01:16:31
Speaker
When I took all that material, what I really did with the Czech four-quadrant coaching system is said, here's how we look at the psyche. What is the psyche? So I go through the anatomy of the psyche. I go through addiction and what causes it and strategies for behavioral change using well-known models and even some kind of things that I developed.
01:16:54
Speaker
And then I took my check life process alchemy system and said, here's how you break a case down using the principles of alchemy, which are just mind-blowingly effective and beautiful. It's like, alchemy is like one of the best kept secrets in the world to this very day. And it cracks me up because, you know, you don't have to have any religious affiliation whatsoever, but it takes you to the same through the same
01:17:20
Speaker
healing and psychic growth process or has as much power to produce enlightenment as sitting in mountains and meditating for 20 years with yogis and you know going and working with tai chi masters and everything else all of it is in there and it's
01:17:36
Speaker
Of course, it was, and Jung decoded it because they had to hide all this stuff because alchemists were regularly crucified, burned at the stake, burned in vats of hot oil for being blasphemers. So they coded everything. And Jung is the one that broke the code. Him and Marie-Louise von Franz, who turns out to be a language expert in a lot of these ancient languages that the alchemists were writing original documents in.
01:18:04
Speaker
So I put this system together.
01:18:07
Speaker
And to me, it's still one of the best kept secrets that I've developed, but it's the thing I'm probably the most proud of because, you know, like I've, for example, I shared it with Ben Greenfield. I put him into the system and it blew his mind when I showed him in like 10 minutes what was really going on. I've shared it with Kyle Kingsbury and his wife. You know, anybody that I use it on that's smart enough or has the ability to follow me as I'm explaining what's happening,
01:18:37
Speaker
It's like watching magic happen right in front of you because it works with the core principles that the physiology and the psyche work on. And once you know how they interact with each other, it's kind of like a computer. You can put the data in it. If you put seven plus seven in the computer, you're going to get 14. Well, because it's working with the elements, earth, water, fire, air, and ether,
01:19:02
Speaker
And then it's working with psychic development or spiritual development, which is the philosophers called the philosopher's stone. So the sum total of your spiritual growth or the wisdom within you is what's called the stone. So people that have little stones have lots of problems.
01:19:21
Speaker
Someone with a big philosopher stone may still have problems but they have a lot of skills for dealing with them so they're not so afraid or disabled but they just know it's another day on planet earth and here's how you deal with it. So it's been fun and magical and I put a lot of work and research into it and development and
01:19:42
Speaker
Yeah, so was there a story with regards to Steiner and Jung and how the synthesis of their concepts came about in the Czech life process alchemy model? Yeah, I left it out because I thought it might be a little too out there for some people, but as I said,
01:20:04
Speaker
To you on break if they're still listening to the interview, then I probably haven't scared them away yet. That's it Yeah, but what was happening? Yeah, I of course, you know, I study physiology quite extensively and and I developed
01:20:19
Speaker
sort of a model. And you've probably seen my blackboard where I have all the elements right next to my desk here, earth, water, fire, aerospace, and all the systems all connecting. And that's part of where I was doing this kind of groundwork and meditating on it. That's why it's there, because I meditate on it even to this day. It's like you never get done tapping the mysteries of the body. If you think you've got them all, then you're already screwed in your own head.
01:20:48
Speaker
And of course I had all the Jungian psychology and I'd studied Edward Edinger's Anatomy of the Psyche, which is a very deep, deep book, you know, and I spent a lot of time really going through that and really digesting it heavily. And so, interestingly enough, one day I was
01:21:10
Speaker
I was looking at some kind of a catalog for books and audios and they had a shamanic section in it and I'm flipping through it and they had an audio of Alex Gray leading a shamanic journey and the function of the journey was to meet your spirit guides.
01:21:33
Speaker
And because I love Alex Gray, I've read several of his books. And as you know, I've got lots of his art books and he's kind of a hero of mine.
01:21:40
Speaker
I thought, well, I'm going to give that a try. It'd be cool to do a shamanic journey with Alex Gray. You know, I know he's really into the medicines and shamanic cultures and all that. So I got it and I put it in my sauna and where I meditate and I followed him on this, um, this, uh, spirit guide retrieval process. So it was like an hour, maybe hour, 10, hour, and 20 minutes.
01:22:07
Speaker
process and you know, he's got a professional shaman drummer in there and and so Long story made short you you get to this place in this journey where your your guides come forth one at a time and each one of them brings you a gift and In the meditation you get up to four guides Some people only have one some people have four some people have more, you know 12 14 15 But the medic that the technique he used only only led us to four
01:22:38
Speaker
And so I'm deep in this meditation and it's very powerful and I'm, you know, and I practice these things so they're natural for me, but, um, the first guide to show up and I immediately recognized cause you're in this big round room with multiple doors. Um, and the first door to open and the man walks through it was Rudolph Steiner. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, it's Rudolph Steiner. You know, when I was just so excited and,
01:23:05
Speaker
and hugged him and told him how much I love him and appreciate his work and all that stuff. And so he hands me a scroll and he says, this is your gift. And I open, he said, go ahead and open it and I open it. And he's got my four doctor system mapped out showing how each of the doctors connect
01:23:32
Speaker
And he showed me where to position each of the key control systems, such as rhythm, pressure and flow, temperature, energy accumulation, energy, chemistry, hydration organisms.
01:23:45
Speaker
And so here it was, and it was this beautiful, beautiful, how do you describe it? Like an old fashioned parchment paper, like you get a university certificate, university degree on, you know, that really fancy paper that's kind of embossed. And I looked at that and I'm like, wow, that's so beautiful. I'm like, thank you. You just completed a big part of my project.
01:24:11
Speaker
And so he had it all there. It was like he'd been looking through my mind the whole time and knew exactly what I was up to, right? Which included his work too. So I was like, just that alone. I'm like, oh man, this is the best meditation in my life right now. And so he said goodbye and he said, I said, well, I'm excited to use this. He says, yes, you'll know what to do with it, but there's more coming.
01:24:38
Speaker
And so I waited and he said goodbye and the next person that walked through the door was Carl Jung. And I'm like, oh my God, Carl Jung, this is crazy shit, man. And so I'm like practically licking this guy, loving him and telling him how grateful I am for all the teachings he's passed on to me. And he says, I have a gift for you. And he hands me a scroll, just like Steiner. It is similar, but slightly different texture and paper, very much like his Red Book.
01:25:08
Speaker
And he goes, go ahead and open it. And in the center was a diagram, which is now sun face. And it showed me exactly what elements of the psyche and all the subtle elements and the psychic elements needed to go inside the outer ring that Steiner had gave me. And he smiled and he said, if you merge these two maps that we've just given you, you will have completed your work.
01:25:38
Speaker
So I'm like, I'm completely blown away. So the first thing I do, I get a big piece of paper and I take these two maps, which are in my psyche and I read them and I draw them out and there it all came together. And so when I begin testing it clinically and working with it, it's just been kind of like I still, I still am like a kid, you know, because when you have experiences like that, it shows you that the world is far more magical and wonderful.
01:26:08
Speaker
and that the people that we think are dead or not dead, they're right there and they're sensitive to every one of us. There's an old saying, you cannot even say somebody's name who's in the afterlife without them knowing it because they know the vibration of their name and all the people connected to them. So I've had many, many of these types of experiences, as you know, but when you get something that practical and that real and that perfected,
01:26:36
Speaker
And that's so intimate with what you're processing in your own life at the time. If that doesn't break down the wall of scientific materialism, then you're your your your your your own biggest problem. Yeah, exactly. Well, I think, you know, one of the one of the sort of names for those kinds of downloads, I know that was obviously a meditation, but you know, I've had several experiences of moments of what's called Kensho, where just something drops into your head and you're like, yeah, solution to
01:27:06
Speaker
to the challenge you've been kind of trying to process for a period. And one of the times that happened to me was when I developed my model of the primal dialectics, so the four yin-yang symbols, which we talked about in our most recent paper, the Ghost of the Machine response paper.
01:27:26
Speaker
And one of my most exciting moments in terms of this kind of work was when I was out teaching the level four with you in 2017. And I was looking at your check alchemy model, check life process alchemy model. And I realized that my model fits exactly over the top of your model and fits perfectly with everything that's on the page. And yet they've developed
01:27:52
Speaker
completely independently. And, you know, it was just, it was just moments where you think, ah, it's like, this there's some kind of, I don't know, it feels to me like there's some kind of truth behind that, you know, when those kinds of things happen. Because it's, it's resonant. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that was exciting. It's resonant. I mean, when you when you sent that to me,
01:28:16
Speaker
And I laid it on top of my own model. I just cracked up laughing. I'm like, Oh God, look at that. I said, you know, and you know, I've always had a deep love and respect for you as a human being. And you and I've had just a great lifetime together sharing and exploring and learning and growing and
01:28:37
Speaker
And so the first words out of my mouth, when I laid your map on top of mine, I did it on my computer and made yours semi-transparent so I could see. And I'm like, holy shit, man, this is like shoe in a foot in five finger shoe or hand in glove.
01:28:53
Speaker
And I said, I just said the words, great minds think alike. Yeah, excellent, excellent, good stuff. Well, talking of that, I think, you know, one of the last things that I wanted to go into on on this podcast was, of course, our papers that we wrote just recently, which I just just alluded to. So we wrote some papers called Ghost and Machine.
01:29:11
Speaker
is Musculoskeletal Medicine Lacking Soul. We've covered those in a lot of detail on webinars which are available freely through the Czech Institute's website, www.chekinstitute.com. We'll put a link to that in the show notes.
01:29:27
Speaker
Obviously, you know, we put those out last year, last March, last April time. And within that, we talked about the four quadrant model that you've just alluded to and the four doctors and the four, the one, two, three, four, plus the four questions that a shaman will often ask of their
01:29:49
Speaker
patient or their clients. Do you want to touch on those briefly? Do you want to? Which the question that the shaman asks? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, typically in shamanism, if you study shamanism worldwide, and you know, I'm not talking kind of like weekend warrior shaman, I'm talking about people that were raised in the shamanic tradition and initiated in a shamanic tradition.
01:30:16
Speaker
You'll find there's a common denominator and there's four or five key questions that shaman have found to be at the root of pretty much everything that ails people. One is, when did you stop singing?
01:30:30
Speaker
So typically, having worked with these questions for years, I can tell you they're very accurate. So the time in your life when you stop singing, most kids naturally sing. My little boy, Mona, sings a lot. His energy just burst out of him, and he walks around the house. He'll sit and play and sing to himself. And so there's a child in his natural state of psychic health and connection to all that is.
01:30:59
Speaker
So when you ask that question, when did you stop singing? If a person really pays attention, they'll almost always find that that's when their mind actually begin to trap them. That's when they became more concerned about what other people think of them than about authentically expressing themselves. You know, to put it into perspective, if you had a sick bird as a client and you said to that bird, when did you stop singing?
01:31:27
Speaker
you would find that whatever made the bird stop singing is at the root of what's brought that bird to you today, even if it was 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Because singing for us is natural, which is why there's a saying, happy people may not sing, but singing always makes you happy. So the next question is, when did you stop dancing?
01:31:53
Speaker
and once again when people stop singing they usually stop dancing for the same reasons and when we stop dancing we stop letting spirit move through our physical being and we lose our sense of harmony and connection to nature and to the universe and to the
01:32:09
Speaker
the flow of the cosmic mind or the flow of the tribal mind or the flow of nature. Everything
Shamanic Tools and Personal Growth
01:32:16
Speaker
in creation is dancing, even things that you think aren't dancing like rocks. If you use clairvoyance, which I can do, you look inside of a rock, you see a ball of energy buzzing like
01:32:29
Speaker
Billions of airplane propellers spinning together and lots of colors and vibration Happening. Yeah. Yeah, so We look to see when a person stopped dancing and why the next is when did you stop enjoying stories and a lot of people? Make themselves so busy and get so serious that they stop really enjoying stories that don't have any meaning other than either entertainment or
01:32:57
Speaker
some sort of allegory, a message like Lion King or even Batman and the Joker or any Superman, they all have allegorical teachings to them. So when a person stops enjoying stories, it usually is an indication that they're now trapped in their own ego structure
01:33:19
Speaker
and the world becomes extremely narrow and limited and they fall into the trap of believing their thoughts instead of questioning to see if they're really true. Next is, when did you stop enjoying being alone with yourself? And typically what you'll find is right around the person stopped enjoying being alone with themselves is when they reached a level of accumulation of guilt and shame
01:33:48
Speaker
and self-judgment that they no longer could authentically love themselves and therefore they fall into a large myriad of addictive tendencies to medicate the pain of not wanting to be with themselves because they believe that there's something bad about themselves or
01:34:14
Speaker
that they've made mistakes that can't be reconciled and therefore they're going to burn in hell so they have to go into all sorts of games with God. But and the next one is when did you lose your sense of the magic mystery and awe for life? Yeah.
01:34:33
Speaker
And when you track down when a person really lost their sense of the magic of life and the mystery of life and the awe of life, you find that if you ask these five questions, you'll find a convergence that usually narrows it down to within a three to five year window where all these things started breaking down. And basically, that means you've lost connection with the truth of yourself. You've lost the connection to your higher self, your soul. You've lost connection to your heart.
01:35:03
Speaker
you've lost connection to your voice, you've lost connection to your child curiosity and you believe that your degree is all you need and you stop learning and you ignore other people that have a lot more knowledge than you just because you think they have to be wrong or something like that. You lose your sense of the beauty of the stars and the mystery of life and birth and death and transformations
01:35:30
Speaker
all the things that make life incredible. Think of how many people today are bored with their life. Well, God, just go stand in the mirror and look into your own eyes and say, how in the hell did that happen? Yeah, for sure. Look at the stars at night.
01:35:48
Speaker
Those questions really do two things.
Ancient Wisdom vs. Modern Science
01:35:53
Speaker
They give you a very reliable model to assess the etiology of what ails people, which the medical system is very unlikely to ever find. Two, they show you that what most of the people with kind of traditional Western academic training and scientific materialist thinking
01:36:14
Speaker
think about shaman and energy workers and dowsers and healers is a product of the fact that they themselves have challenges with each of those issues brought up or multiple of them. And they're no longer connected to the fact that the shamanic traditions have produced a tremendous wealth of very, very valuable and reliable and practical
01:36:44
Speaker
information for healing and personal and spiritual growth and development and that they forget that all religions emerged out of shamanism and we spent millions of years out there before the industrial revolution, before modern science came along and we managed to evolve through much more challenging times and
01:37:12
Speaker
do the things that we had to do to perpetuate ourselves as a species and still cultivate wisdom growth and learn how to navigate each other and
01:37:29
Speaker
When you realize that those technologies got us through an environment that is much tougher than the one we're in and the technologies that so many left brain dominant scientific material is worship or the very technologies that are extremely ineffective and have led us to the highest rates of disease and suicide.
01:37:47
Speaker
in every category that we have now today, if you really are paying attention and your mind's not closed, which is why I often quote Mark Twain, who says, don't let your schooling get in the way of your education. And you realize that we certainly don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We really at this time need people like Alberto Veloto and Deepak Chopra and people that Bruce Lipton,
01:38:16
Speaker
Greg Braden, Teresa Bullard, and many others that are masterfully integrating the ancient and the modern scientific teachings into something that's a much more powerful
01:38:30
Speaker
and well-needed whole, and that's really what I've devoted my life to as well. Yeah, yeah, perfect, perfect. And so, you know, just to finish off, the Ghost in the Machine papers obviously illustrate not only those teaching points from the Shamans, but they also, I think what we did quite effectively was to show the importance of the subjective side to life as well as the objective side.
01:39:00
Speaker
how it's important to identify simplicity within the complexity of the presenting findings that the client comes in with, someone who's got persistent pain or complex health challenges, or they've been medically retired, all of these examples of clients that you've worked with throughout your career. And quite frequently, the solutions there have a consistent degree of simplicity to them.
01:39:29
Speaker
And so I just wanted to finish off by getting your own take on where you've found order amongst the chaos. Well, I guess we've really discussed it all. But maybe I'll round off with my own thoughts and then see if it spurs anything for you. Because one of the things that we've obviously been up against,
01:39:54
Speaker
you've been up against, especially in your career, is critiques and criticisms for your lack of training and your lack of degrees and lack of published papers and all this kind of stuff, which is the standard narrative of the academic approach. But it strikes me that
01:40:13
Speaker
what is perhaps most challenging to the people that make those accusations towards you is that you have come up with such simple models that are so effective that it's very difficult for them to believe that they can be as effective as they have been. So essentially you are and your models are the simplicity within the complexity that's out there or the order within the chaos. What do you say to that?
01:40:43
Speaker
I would say that's true. I think that when you really look at simplicity, it contains complexity within itself. I mean, at the very basis of the universe, even from a scientific perspective, is zero. I mean, you can't get simpler than that. But if you look at it from another way, let's just say that God's information technology is such as that God can zip the entire of creation
01:41:13
Speaker
the universe or the multiverse down to zero. So when you look for it, there's nothing there. But when you know how to open that zero, everything conceivable that will ever has been or ever will be is included in that simplicity. So
01:41:34
Speaker
I'm going to have to close out because I have another interview in two minutes. But I've really enjoyed sharing with you. It's funny because, you know, you know, going through all this with you, I've forgotten about so many of the things that I've explored and done. So it's been quite a kind of like a tour de France of my life. So thank you for your passion, Matt, and for everything you share with the world and for inspiring me to be a better teacher and to
01:42:03
Speaker
share with you in the world and thanks for all that you've added to the Institute and to my life and for sharing what you're sharing with people. I really love and appreciate you for all of that. Thank you, Paul. And that gratitude is fired right back at you, of course. And I'm going to finish it right there so you get at least a minute or so before your next interview. But thanks so much. And I know we'll speak again down the line. So looking forward to that. All right. I look forward to sharing this. Perfect.
01:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, great. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye.
01:42:37
Speaker
Thank you for listening to FC2O. If you enjoyed that and found it useful, please do feel free to share it with your friends, colleagues, and loved ones. If you'd like to learn more about Paul Cheks and the Chek Institute's offerings, you can head over to chekinstitute.com or to paulcheksblog.com. So that's chek, C-H-E-K, institute.com or paulcheksblog.com. If you're interested in making change in your life, then Paul's personal, professional, and spiritual success mastery program, which we discussed in this podcast, is available at ppsuccess.com.
01:43:08
Speaker
Paul and the Czech Institute are generously offering FCTOO listeners access to Paul's Movement as Medicine video series. In this video series, Paul teaches you how to use movement to recover much more quickly from injury and illness, to direct nutrition and energy to specific locations in your body, to meditate, reduce stress, balance your hormone levels, and much more.
01:43:28
Speaker
To access this, just go to checkinstitute.com forward slash m4mother a4alpha m4mother forward slash and that will give you free access.
01:43:39
Speaker
So thank you for joining us again today. In order to be notified of upcoming episodes, then you can subscribe on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify. But stay tuned for next week when we'll be interviewing Elite Forces physiotherapist, university lecturer and CrossFit specialist, Dale Walker. Thanks for listening. See you soon.