Speaker
in terms of podcast worlds, you know particularly when you're comparing yourself to the likes of Paul Cech and Mark Sisson and others that have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of listeners, um then you know it feels like you're not doing so well. But also at that point in time, since 2019, it's a bit like the Wild West. I remember Gavin Jennings, the head of the Czech Institute, the the the CEO of Czech Institute, kind of said to me, podcast is just like the Wild West at the moment because it's a completely new industry. No one really knows how to play it. um But at that point in time, you really needed about 5,000 to 10,000 listeners to attract sponsorship. um And I'd never really started the podcast in order to make money from it. I'd done it really for fun, and because I think it was kind of six months after Paul had released his podcast, um and a bunch of people said, oh, Matt, you should do one. And I thought, yeah, that'd be fun. And I looked into it, and it wasn't too expensive to put it on. And I thought, OK, yeah, I'll give it a go. and um And so I did, and it was fun, as anticipated.