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Episode 140: Breakfast with the Color Pie
138 Plays3 years ago
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome back to another episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast! And we are back with our 7th Episode Using The Color Pie to discuss one of our top 3 Topics (Food). With each episode we find ourselves refining our Color Pie Theory for Food/Cooking and today's episode will continue that "refinement". Today we take on the American Breakfast... This stemmed from a discussion of excess and Hobbes's belief that every food would basically include Black. Let us know what you think. Also Hobbes would like to apologize for the audio. Something was causing interference with his mic (which appears to be fixed) but this had already been recorded. We hope it does not detract too much...
We also are proud to have partnered with Grinding Coffee Co a black, LGBT+ affiliated and owned, coffee business that is aimed at providing coffee to gamers. You can read more about their mission here. You can use our partner code for discounted coffee!
On another new note we continue our partnership with The Fireside Alliance. From their main page: "An independent media network and a progressive community of progressive communities". Please check them out!
Again we would like to state that Black Lives Matter (with a link to where you can offer support both monetary and not).
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As promised, we plan to keep these Mental Health Links available moving forward too. For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255)
- Veteran's can Press 1 at anytime to be taken to the Veteran's Line
- Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741-741
- International suicide hotlines: A comprehensive resource list for people outside the US.
- IMAlive: Click Chat Now to access a live online network of volunteers through instant messaging.
- TrevorLifeline, TrevorChat, and TrevorText (LGBTQ+ crisis support): 1-866-488-7386, or text “Trevor” to 1-202-304-1200
- Trans Lifeline (US): (877) 565-8860
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You can find the hosts on Twitter: Hobbes Q. at @HobbesQ, and Alex Newman at @Mel_Chronicler. Send questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to @GoblinLorePod on Twitter or GoblinLorePodcast@gmail.com.
Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle).
Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast, and a part of their growing Vorth
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Theme
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome to another episode of the Goblin Lore podcast. Today, we are here to talk to you about one of Goblin's three favorite things, and that is food. The other two being explosions and rocks. I believe we've covered this in the past. At some point, we might actually have to do an episode. And rocks that explode, and probably food that explodes, and we have not covered that.
Goblin Cuisine and Imposter Cakes
00:00:51
Speaker
We have definitely not covered exploding foods.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yes, there's definitely some overlaps like where they get extra bonuses for hitting more than one, but it's like three things that are their favorite things on their own.
00:01:04
Speaker
add in other elements and it just, you know, makes it a bonus. We're talking food tonight, which is great because my brain already went like left field. But have you ever seen like I watched a lot of cooking shows like this happened a while ago. It was a phenomenon on TV for a while where like imposter cakes or food that looks like other food that really messes with your mind.
00:01:25
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, so like, you know, like imposter foods would be like, it looks like a steak, but when you cut into it, it's a cake. And for a while, it was that joke of like, you don't know what food is, because there were so many videos going around and people cutting into things that like look straight up like a real object, or like a person or an animal, and then it's a cake inside.
00:01:47
Speaker
But I feel like this is how goblins would cook like, right? Like the hybrid between rocks and food, you know, maybe actually is I mean, that like, it's just that they make their food to also look like items so other people don't steal them. There may be some goblin, maybe the blue goblins, I suspect a lot of the more mono red goblins don't have the patience for that.
00:02:11
Speaker
No, I think I think we're talking the artificers or the yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're doing it. So speaking of goblins, why don't we introduce ourselves?
Hosts Introduction and Podcast Energy
00:02:25
Speaker
I'm Alex, but you've been found on Twitter, sometimes but not really right now at Mel underscore chronicler. The pronouns are he him.
00:02:35
Speaker
Hobs? Hobskew. I can be found on Twitter at hobskew and my pronouns are he him. Thanks, Hobs. That was probably the greatest intro to an episode of this cast we've ever had. Appreciate the real goblin energy that you're bringing to it tonight.
00:02:55
Speaker
Like I said, we're talking about food, which longtime listeners will know means we're talking about the color pie of food. If you're not a longtime listener, welcome. We're weird. And this is a great example of, of it. We have fun. Yeah. Or if you found us last the last couple of weeks when we were talking about representation on Kamagawa, and also mind control stories and difficulties with them.
00:03:16
Speaker
Well,
The Color Pie of Food Series
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:17
Speaker
now we're going to talk food. We're talking about more serious things. Still joking and having a good time, which is kind of what we want to do. Definitely. Definitely more giving gravity to the topic. Yeah, exactly. Tonight, no gravity. No, no serious. Well, I mean, we are talking serious. We are seriously talking about food tonight.
00:03:37
Speaker
So we've done this a lot. This is definitely our longest running series, despite the fact that I'm sure our goblin profiles was our first series and intended to be our biggest pillar or flag stone. There's words there. I'm losing the right one, so I'm using the half right ones.
00:03:59
Speaker
Or just keep using enough of them. Do you either find the right one or you find enough wrong ones? Yeah, English is great. We have lots of words that mean similar things. So we can just kind of keep riffing on that. Anyway, so the food, the color pie of food is a topic that was brought by, you know, I should have these things prepared. I don't, one of our patrons whose name is escaping me.
00:04:26
Speaker
Thank you very much. Yup. Way back. And I think I want to say it was like episode like 40 or something like it was early in the cast because God, we've had a lot of episodes or now.
00:04:39
Speaker
Anyway, this is episode 140. Wow. So it was about 100 episodes ago. I don't think it was exactly, but it was it was thereabouts. And he asked us to do talk with the codpipe sauces. And so we had a lot of fun.
Acknowledgments and Support
00:04:56
Speaker
Oh, here we go. I just found it. It was episode 53.
00:04:59
Speaker
It was a lot of fun. We enjoyed it. I kind of accidentally built like a structure for this because that was the only way I had any ability to like prepare for that episode. And then we realized this was a thing that we could continue to apply to other types of food and continue to develop because we're definitely still working on it. And I will warn you, we will definitely talk about food tonight. But I think unlike, like to be honest, like our more recent episodes of this,
00:05:26
Speaker
There will be fewer particular foods we're talking about, and it'll probably be more philosophy talk. But that's fun. That's part of what we have fun about with this. Yeah, as I say, for people that are new, if you want to go back and listen, this is actually, as Alex said, it's our longest-running kind of, well, besides the profiles of goblins, is our longest-running kind of consistent topic we've done to the point where
00:05:49
Speaker
refined the color pie and talked about everything from the differences between color pie of the ingredients to color pie of the preparation. On the last time we did this for Thanksgiving, we talked about hybrid mana and how that functions game-wise
00:06:07
Speaker
And it's not just the fact that it's two colors, but what hybrid means versus, you know, red, black. We like to, we've done a lot with this topic and it's always fun for us to look at different ways to think of these magic concepts. And this is also just personally one of Alex and I's favorites because we both like to eat a lot.
00:06:27
Speaker
And we like to cook, and that's the thing we've talked about too. And actually, if my very quick napkin math slash control F in our goblin lower planner document is correct, the goblin profiles we definitely started earlier, but we have done more color pie of food episodes.
00:06:46
Speaker
Um, it helps that it's a thing we've done consistently and it wasn't something that we forgot to do for a year and a half. But I digress as we are wanting to do this. There is a lot more food.
Breakfast Foods and the Color Pie
00:07:00
Speaker
So before we get really far into this actual topic, I want to make sure that we are thanking some people. So let's start out first by thanking the Grinding Coffee Company, since we are on a food topic and coffee is definitely a food group for me.
00:07:16
Speaker
We want to throw a shout out to them. So they support us, help us with our giveaways, help us with just spreading the word. They're very supportive of mental health. They're just supportive of gamers in general. So they're a minority owned LGBT ran coffee company that really specializes in branding towards gamers and supporting gamers with codes. If you go over to our Goblin Lore podcast, you can click on our link and you can get a discount on your coffee.
00:07:43
Speaker
And we love them, so. Yeah, definitely. And the other show we want to give this is one that it's a thing we did a while ago or joined a bit ago, but we talked about it a bunch of that and haven't talked about it much recently. But there's an organization called the Fireside Alliance, which is described on their website as an independent media network and a progressive community of progressive communities. And we actually joined this community
00:08:09
Speaker
Um, um, about a year, not a year ago, it would have been months ago, but like the middle of middle-ish of last year. And it's a, it's a podcast. So it's okay. But it's a bunch of podcasters and other content creators, just all kind of had their own communities like we do with the goblin war community and our discord of things. But they're just looking to build a space for these communities to kind of come together. And that's.
00:08:39
Speaker
So there's a website that kind of talks about things. There's a Discord that's, you know, pretty joined that's part of this community as well. If that sounds like something you're interested in, I'll say there's some good content in there just along a lot of different sort of avenues.
00:08:54
Speaker
So it lets you kind of, you know, it broadens out beyond magic for us to have kind of some wider connections to the geek community. And also, you know, they're, they're on board for some ideas that we're pitching for May for Mental Health Awareness Month, of kind of trying to just help push out to some of their fandoms, some of that mental health and mental health awareness that the cast is all about. So yes, we've been really excited that they they jumped at like the opportunity. So
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm really looking forward to working with some of them and like directly doing things, but even like have them put out to talk to the topics and things, even if there isn't a direct collaboration, they're all, that's a thing that is important to them as well, like it is to us.
Color Pie Breakdown in Foods
00:09:39
Speaker
which is another reason why I really like this community and I'm glad and honored to be a part of it. We actually approached them and asked if we could join and they were gracious enough to let us join the community. So really appreciate that and want to shout that out.
00:09:53
Speaker
Well, then to get onto the main topic of the show, unfortunately, this is an audio-only format, so you can't enjoy the fact that I, to get in the mood for this, wore my breakfast pajama pants that have pictures of toast, bacon, eggs, and coffee on them. And they're great. They're festive because they fit the topic of the show.
00:10:14
Speaker
which is breakfast foods. I am so excited of the clarification because I thought these were like, when I wear certain pants to breakfast, because I know how much I'm going to eat. No, then I know that I won't feel bad. There's an element of that. But these are legitimately breakfast
00:10:34
Speaker
pajama pants and they are my very favorite pajama pants and uh today when my apartment was a little cooler than it has been recently it's like i should put some pajama pants on to be warmer and then i saw these and it's like i'm gonna dress for the occasion because i knew what we were recording tonight very happy um the uh serendipity that worked out there but
00:10:56
Speaker
I have no idea how I was planning to transition from that into the actual topic. So what I'm going to do is call it out, point at it, and then walk away from it.
Chicken and Waffles: A Savory-Sweet Blend
00:11:06
Speaker
We're talking breakfast. We're talking breakfast. We're talking breakfast. And we're talking breakfast foods. And we're talking breakfast foods. And one thing we want to make sure, and this is a thing that
00:11:17
Speaker
We talk about a little bit in the past, but as we're going with the color pie of food, I want to be very specific to talk about where we're coming from. So culturally, Hobbs and I are both Americans. We're both white Americans. We're both in Minnesota right now. I've grown up here and lived here my whole life. Hobbs is a transplant.
00:11:38
Speaker
from California. So there's a little bit of difference there. But for the most part, we come from a very similar cultural culinary, the background in that regard to you, you do have some different I mean, individual differences as there generally will be, but from a broad strokes, that's what we're talking about. That's where we're coming from. So when we talk about breakfast, I don't I don't put mayo on everything or put jello in and then call it a salad.
00:12:03
Speaker
I tend not to. Well, actually, I don't do either of those. I prefer miracle whip over mayo. And I don't even use that very much. Wow, we just well, our numbers just dropped way off listeners. But there's there's some Midwestern stuff there. I understand those references to salads and things that I've seen at potlucks, and like church potlucks and stuff a lot.
00:12:26
Speaker
In any event, we're talking about breakfast food. We're not talking about weird potluck salads, some of which are good and some of which I avoid. We're talking about breakfast foods. We want to have the caveat that we're again talking about sort of American breakfast because everyone kind of has their own version of what this is. And like you said, we're going to talk about some specific foods for sure, but we're going to talk about some philosophy first because if you are not familiar with American breakfast stuff,
00:12:54
Speaker
Well, at basically all times, excess is a common feature to American culinary
Messy Foods and Red in the Color Pie
00:13:01
Speaker
designs, I suppose. But breakfast in particular, there's some very serious excess sort of things, which leans itself very heavily towards black. And I'll get into some specifics here in a second. So why don't we actually talk about the color pie in a general sense? So I'll go through
00:13:24
Speaker
in Wooburg order, in Wooburg, which it's like, you're going to sum up very, very, we can get into some more details, we go and it becomes relevant, but just to keep the framework. Let us know where we're at, Alex, because you do a better job of tracking where our pie is evolved to. So, so white is
00:13:48
Speaker
This is one we're still kind of working to nail down some specifics, but in general terms, white are generally going to be your more common things, your more accessible things, like ketchup. When we talked about sauces, ketchup was in American culture again.
00:14:05
Speaker
Very white you get ketchup Everywhere it's it's and it's it's kind of also very white if you want to talk about white Americans as well But like in that context in that cultural context ketchup is something that's for the masses It's a generally a consistent thing. There are different brands that have different ketchups, but they're there the difference between them is much smaller than the difference between various kinds of I don't know mustards and other things and
00:14:34
Speaker
So it's a it's a relatively accessible actually ketchup is very accessible thing we're talking about I think we talked about like fast food at one point McDonald's is a very talked about like consistency and like you know what you're gonna get kind of like idea like you know we've talked a lot about like everything that we usually talk about with white could have other versions but we're kind of talking about maybe the base that you know what you're gonna get a lot of times
00:15:00
Speaker
some comfort foods, even like a grilled cheese sandwich, just like typical, maybe just bread, butter, cheese, like it's just kind of that simplicity
Breakfast Platters and Color Representation
00:15:10
Speaker
might have those white elements to it. We've talked about it. There's some community element. Yep. Yes. And that's I want to I also want to make this caveat, which I think I make every time and if I don't, I that's too bad. Like I would like to make this. I there's nothing wrong with white. This can be good.
00:15:28
Speaker
There is good things. It's just like I'm not even talking down about like McDonald's. Is it the best quality food? No, but that's not what it's about. It's a consistent thing. It's an easy thing. It's an accessible thing. And if those are what you want, that's, it's good at those. If you want something that's better, if you want something that's different, you know, then you go somewhere else and that's fine too. We don't want to,
00:15:54
Speaker
We don't want to make any judgments about food and things here. We're not trying to make qualitative this is good or bad judgments. We're just trying to say kind of where does this fit in the color pie. Use that color pie philosophy to sort of examine how we eat, what we eat and things like that. So saying white is the stuff that's more for the masses and accessible.
00:16:18
Speaker
is just this is kind of where it fits. So then to not get drug too long sitting in one place, blue tends to be more technical.
00:16:29
Speaker
Blue is like, sauces in particular are things where it's like, these are much more technical Worcestershire sauce. How close was I even in saying that? Worcestershire. Worcestershire. Worcestershire. This would be like, yeah, you don't, it's not that you don't have like the chestire. Like if, like if you see the city in Massachusetts, it's Worcester, Massachusetts. It's a similar idea. It looks like Warchester.
00:16:57
Speaker
So when we did our color pie of sauces, you, you taught me that that was created by chemists. And it's like, that feels like quintessential blue, that like if chemists make this probably blue, um, generally there's, these are going to be things where you are trying to not necessarily hide, but you are manufacturing what you're doing. So it, it doesn't resemble the natural ingredients that you use to get there.
00:17:25
Speaker
Then there's, I think there's more experimentation how that may fit in other things. Yeah. Blue, we also talked about like blue could be kind of the, like, um, the technique. So we've talked about like, um, like, uh, like, uh, gastronomy techniques that you might use. Um, like that's a very loose school of cooking, but of cooking, but it's also done in a way to kind of like enhance flavors in a very scientific manner.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yes, it's very blue culinary school as opposed to specifically cooking. I'm using that as sort of a catch all term. And that's that's a whole other thing. But yeah, but like, you know, if we talk about like, when we get to green, we'll talk a little bit more about like the natural ingredient, blue techniques would be about well, how do you use the science to bring that about with maybe other flavors or other techniques. So, you know, I was watching the show last night, and they were using baking powder, and a liquid to do a quicker way to tenderize meat.
00:18:24
Speaker
to like it breaks apart the proteins enough that you can get the other flavors into the meat if you don't have as much time. So you are using things like baking powder or other flavors or ingredients marinades to actually change the chemistry of the main
Chicken Fried Steak: Indulgence and Black
00:18:37
Speaker
ingredient. So you're actually using the ingredients to do that.
00:18:41
Speaker
There was a cooking show I was watching or this restaurant. They were using some of the gastronomy things and just some other techniques. And I want to say it was a sous vide or something. It's like a water bath sort of thing. Sous vide. Water bath, keep it at constant temperature.
00:18:58
Speaker
Well, and the way they cooked it, the texture of it felt like it was raw chicken when it was fully cooked and fully safe and there's no, you know, issues of the salmonella, but like it created a very different texture to what you would get from traditional cooking methods. And it's like that is kind of a
00:19:18
Speaker
at least there's some blue in that pursuit to say, I want to do this in a different way that we haven't been able to do it before. Use technology and science to do something different with the food.
00:19:33
Speaker
Then black. Black is the easiest to sum up. Black is flavor at all costs. We're talking about that a lot when we get to the actual foods here for American breakfast food. But flavor at all costs tends to be
00:19:48
Speaker
you know gravy is my my favorite go to because you're going to take like not even the drippings from this piece of meat are going to escape you're putting that right back into this sauce that's going to be rich and it's going to be thick and it's going to be delicious and yet kind of don't care what the consequences of it are.
00:20:07
Speaker
And we have a lot of that, so we'll get some details of that later. Green, we've kind of talked about already. Green kind of pairs well with blue as the opposite. In green, you're cooking with fewer ingredients. You're trying to
00:20:24
Speaker
capital out, you know, you're trying to really show off the natural characteristics of one or two ingredients or whatever you're doing to this piece of meat, it's to show off that piece of meat, it's not to add in and layer other things on it, but it's to show what that piece of meat is, and what that the flavor of that is and what it can do. Yep.
00:20:45
Speaker
And then, uh, so red, we've talked about red is kind of being eat a couple of different things. You know, red is going to be like your heat for the heat sake. So you're not necessarily doing it for flavor. You're doing it to punch somebody in the face. You're just going to kick the heat up. It's kind of experiential in some ways. You're looking to experience something that may or may not have to do with the normal food thing. I think anything where you set the food on fire, there's some element of red.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yes, I would say that that is very, very true. And we've also talked about red as being kind of the the the passion or the love that can come for something, but it is like that intensity that is behind it. So like we've talked about like the different areas of how color pie works. And I will say to you, we talked about this idea of like just throwing together whatever you have in the house.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yes, and I think that's kind of a red element too, is there's from sort of a meta level of there's a spontaneity to red where it's kind of like, I'm hungry, I'm gonna eat whatever I have and prepare it with whatever I happen to have. And there's a little bit of red in that.
Biscuits and Gravy: Black Category
00:21:52
Speaker
Have I told you, I may have told you this story, I told someone about it this week, so I was just thinking about it, about the time when I've learned how to make grilled cheese with oil instead of butter. No.
00:22:03
Speaker
Okay, no. So this was a time when I wanted to make a grilled cheese sandwich and I didn't have any butter. And so I'm thinking about it and going applying the knowledge that I have, I know that you put the butter on there so that at least in part so the bread doesn't burn. So it's a way to like heat the sandwich and cook it without burning the bread. And it's like, well, oil can do that too. I know oil does that for your frying things, you can use butter or oil, they both will serve that purpose for like a stir fry or whatever it is you're putting on a pan.
00:22:33
Speaker
So I experimented. My first sandwich that I tried, I think I cooked three sandwiches that day to get it figured out. The first one was awful because I put too much oil on the pan and it soaked into the bread and it was soggy and oily. It was not good. And I tried cooking it longer to cook it off and that only let it soak in more. It was awful.
00:22:58
Speaker
The second one was better, but then eventually I learned, my technique was I found, I have a smaller pan that, not like a super small egg pan, but it's just a little bit bigger than that. And I've found if I just barely covered the oil, put just enough oil in there so it almost didn't cover at all. So it just barely didn't cover at all. I put the bread down, immediately flip it, just like one second flip it.
00:23:27
Speaker
so that a little bit of oil would catch the bread but it wouldn't sit and soak it all in on one side and that divided it up perfectly so that both sides would toast and like not even toast like that at that point the sandwich comes out almost deep fried because there's literal oil on the outside of it that you're cooking
00:23:46
Speaker
Um, it was good. It was weird. So as you were telling the story, yeah, it may be like this, like this came out of that necessity of what you had around, right? Like you really wanted this, you got it in your mindset, which still feels very red. Like, and you decide you wanted it and you had to deal with what you did. I'm now thinking about just like all these discussions I've seen people have about how did people discover that certain foods are edible?
00:24:12
Speaker
Like which mushrooms you eat versus you don't. And it feels like there might be an element of red or like, or like food that people are like very weird to go together, right? Like one of these is going to be a breakfast food, actually. Chicken and waffles. Let's just get started right there. Chicken and waffles. Who decided that those two things were going to pair together? I mean, there may be a historical reason. And that's where we talked about with white. Sometimes the community maybe there is. But I'm picturing somebody that just had chickens and waffles around.
Breakfast Porridges and Texture Challenges
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There's also like the the thing where it could be just both happen to be available. And you put them together like that's how potato chips were invented. But I am now thinking that's like there's tons of things that I've always heard people discuss about like how did people discover that you could do this or that you could eat this or that it was safe? Like, you know, I think there's there's certain fish that have to be cooked just right or like they can make you violently ill.
00:25:10
Speaker
And we're like, yeah, you know what? I'm hungry. I need something more. I don't have any bacon.
00:25:14
Speaker
You know, there's, there's the whole, like, Ludefisk thing. Are you familiar with with that? I mean, familiar being rough relative. Okay, so Ludefisk for for people who are like, not in basically Minnesota or the Midwest, or Scandinavia, and you would see and Scandinavia, but from this, I may be wrong, but from from what I've heard, and this was from kind of a food history course thing I took,
00:25:42
Speaker
It's Scandinavian in origin, but it was a scarcity food that culturally was brought over by immigrants here, and it still exists. But now that there isn't food scarcity, it isn't really that big over there. It was this particular food from, and I may be wrong on that, but from what I learned in this course that I, I think it was a great course that I took, was talking about lutefisk specifically as an example of this phenomena where
00:26:11
Speaker
there wasn't enough food, there was a famine or something exactly, but there was not enough food. And so people learn that there's this really, really bony fish. And if you soak it in lye, in lye, in lye, I'm looking this up right now, yeah, that it will break down the bones into like a more gelatinous thing that you can actually eat. But you first have to like, put it in running water,
00:26:39
Speaker
for I don't even know how long, like a day or two or something. Five to six days. There you go. To wash the lie out because otherwise you kill yourself from consuming lie. And then you can eat this fish that from what I understand that I've never actually had it is not a pleasant dining experience by and large.
00:27:01
Speaker
So somebody figured out we have these fish that we can't eat because they're so bony. We can't even get the meat on them. It's like, let's just soak them in, I guess alkaline. So technically not an acid. It's the opposite of an acid, but it's like what amounts to an acid for if you tried to like, if you spilled it on yourself, it would burn your, your flesh. The name literally means lie fish.
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah. And it's, but now people eat that still, at least here. And maybe they do in Scandinavia as well. But like, that's where it came from. Because that was a thing that someone had to figure out how to do. And some people culturally still carry that. You know, like, I always wonder, like, did they just drop it in some maybe? I don't know. I
00:27:54
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, that's right. Okay. That's right. So anyway, chicken and waffles, Hobbs, you want to kick it off with that? Though we haven't
Closing Remarks and Contact Information
00:28:02
Speaker
done green, we got to get through this. Oh, yeah, that's right. We got one color left. I got out of order and talked about green a little bit. But if you had more that you wanted to say there.
00:28:10
Speaker
No, that's good. Natural ingredients, they tend to have fewer things. I think there tends to be about centralizing that ingredient. Or we said like things that they do have are meant to still enhance but not scientifically but just kind of pair well with the main one to bring it out.
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, like you may be it's it's some herbs and seasoning things on a steak as opposed to I think a more black technique would be the butter basting where you the butter. Butterbasting to enjoy some black cheese crumble on top. Yeah, something like that. Now I'm hungry. So I think we know I know where my interest on the food color pie lies.
00:28:49
Speaker
so breakfast foods so we we talked about this kind of um i mentioned chicken and waffles so chicken and waffles is kind of combining waffles one of my favorite just all-time breakfast foods with fried chicken um which is not typically a breakfast food for me yeah
00:29:10
Speaker
I do have a lot more to add to that one. I think it's a perfect example of that sort of combination you wouldn't necessarily think goes together on the face of it. I'm not a huge fried chicken person, but from what I gather, this is a really good dish. It's really popular that lots of people like, and that's great. Like most American things though,
00:29:36
Speaker
problem, like most of these things we're going to talk about, there's definitely an element of black to it. It's fried chicken, right? It's fried chicken on top. And a lot of these, if I'm not mistaken, you're generally throwing syrup on top of it too. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, generally it is. You know, like I said, there's a lot of debate about where this came from. That's why this is kind of a cool I love looking at kind of the origin of food, because I think they're, you know, they kind of talked about it maybe as even coming up with like,
00:30:04
Speaker
Dutch settlers versus, uh, you know, places first serving it, maybe a Harlem restaurant. And I know that there's some kind of, uh, elements to, to their, uh, South kind of saying that they have kind of the claim to it, but like it, it is still just like, I don't know how it came about, but like it literally is fried chicken and waffles together. Yep. Yep. So yeah, that's, that's.
00:30:36
Speaker
That's the thing. Yeah. Like I said, I think this is really. I suppose there probably is an element, particularly in some committees of white, because there's definitely a community element to it now. It's a community.
00:30:55
Speaker
Well, there's a lot for this with Deep Roots kind of within the Black community. For kind of the chicken kind of with like the waffles thing is known in more of a southern kind of thing. It is seen as like actually having Harlem. You know, those are where it got more popularized and where I think we're seeing more of a resurgence for it is in maybe some of those kind of elements.
00:31:18
Speaker
But the food part of it itself, the actual like eating of it to me, feels very like, like black and red, like I'm getting a nice big, like I said, two things that I would not necessarily have paired together. They're together now. And that's the thing. We're marrying different flavors here. We're measuring much more of a savory and a sweet. And I think that my re has kind of like that, that red element to it for me.
00:31:44
Speaker
So this is just occurring to me right now as we're talking about fried chicken is potentially a new element is part of red. And I want to run this by you. What do you think of like the messiness of the food you eat? So as a fairly short aside, despite the fact that I'm red in a lot of things, this is one element where
00:32:05
Speaker
I don't really like to get my hands messy. And so there's food like by and large fried chicken is a thing I don't eat a lot because some of it you kind of have to get in and dig into it and food you do that like I kind of have a minus grade in my head. There's a spectrum of how messy
00:32:23
Speaker
And hard it is to eat like crab legs, for example, is a more difficult food to eat compared to how much I actually enjoy it. And fried chicken ends up on the wrong side of that sort of spectrum for me sometimes. That's an interesting divide because I think of that when it comes to something like wings, I don't know wings that much. And it's I think the flavors are things I would probably enjoy. I just don't want to spend that much effort for getting a little bit of chicken meat.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, and maybe this is a thing to think about and revisit later, but my first impulse is to say that red is the color that probably doesn't mind getting messy as much. Maybe red-green or something that doesn't mind getting messy to get at their food as kind of that same experience thing, where red doesn't mind that as part of the experience.
00:33:12
Speaker
like that I could see that like that that to me makes sense like you know lobster bakes with a bib on because because butter is flying everywhere like yeah I can only see that it's kind of part of the doing it yes and that's like the eating it is not just about that
00:33:29
Speaker
And that actually could also be – as we talk about kind of building to white, there could be some place of experience there with white that I think there's a little bit more to do with tradition or – I almost think of it as like if we're talking about like a religious service, how there's like certain performance elements to it.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yes, it's part of the part of the ceremony to it. And that I think that could fit white, I think that could also fit green, particularly, I think the divide there may be if it's more of a community thing, like you talk about the lobster bake, or not lobster bake.
00:34:04
Speaker
You just said it. Oh, no, I did say lobster bacon. It was lobster bacon. Yeah, that's like a fish fry but but or like a but like a I was thinking like you go out and eat lobster with a group of people. Yeah. And I'm thinking maybe a like, what's called a fish fry in Minnesota where you get together and or or you put the whole pig in like, where it's like buried as part of a serum. It's part of like, an event.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yes. And I think if there's a ritual, like eating crab legs, the process of that is more of an individual thing that may be more red, that may be more green. But if there's a community element to we're getting together, we're doing this thing, food is a part of what we're doing. That feels a lot more white.
00:34:51
Speaker
I think we're getting white to a little bit more part of the pie as we're going. We've gotten through one food so far. One entire food. I'm going to cross that one off because I had that on my list too. Sweet. Do we want to do the weird sideways one right now? Now let's talk about a little more general because I've teased it several times. I want to talk a little bit about
00:35:13
Speaker
Part of what I'm talking about when I say a lot of American food is excessive Ed Black. There is a portion, there's a corner of American breakfast food that has an absurd, ridiculous, ludicrous amount of sugar in it.
00:35:29
Speaker
We're talking most of our breakfast cereals, which are supposed to be for kids and just get them all wired as hell on, you know, Froot Loops or whatever. And that's honestly not even one of the worst ones with some of the things we have going on now. We're talking about like pastries where breakfast is just like a bunch of donuts and that's like nothing but carbs and sugar.
00:35:48
Speaker
Um, even into the pancakes, waffles, French toast, and especially what you can do at like, I mean, to just call out one place that I both love and am afraid of. I hop just what the hell they do with a stack of pancakes. Sometimes the, the syrups and creams and whipped creams and flavors that go onto those things and chocolate chips.
00:36:11
Speaker
is absurd. And so a lot of that like there, there, there may be some other colors depending on what it is and painting in other directions, but there's a core of the black excess color or flavor at all costs. This makes me think of like when I was in college, we had on the weekends in the food hall, there was actually just like the setup, make your own waffles.
00:36:33
Speaker
Like a machine set up that you could just pour batter into pre made batter, ready to go. You poured it in, flipped it over, you got yourself a basic huge waffle. And then there was just toppings. And those toppings were fruit. But like, if they were fruit, they were like sweet fruits. They were yeah, like in syrup.
00:36:52
Speaker
If it's not fresh fruit, some places will do that. Not in the college dorm, no. Not in the college dorm. Because part of it is, and there's a little bit of necessity or maybe white in some of this too, is like fresh strawberries don't last very long.
00:37:08
Speaker
jarred strawberries packed in syrup will last a while so you can buy those in bulk and save them keep using them for a good period of time for all of the hungry students but like you said there's gonna be like
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, fruit in in syrup, there's gonna be chocolate chips, there might be M&Ms, there might be some granola, there might be some food options. But like, the amount of options is this like plethora of like just choices to be made that let you then also just go to excess. Yes.
00:37:41
Speaker
Is that plethora of options itself a form of excess? I want to say yes, but that might require exploration later. This might be revealing more about me and myself. When I go to one of these places like that, it means that I want some of everything that looks good. And I could have a pancake with just one of those things, but when I have them all together... This is why I have a hard time going to Cold Stone.
00:38:10
Speaker
Right, which is an ice cream place that lets you do a similar thing where it's like I want this ice cream with these, you know, includes and what's funny is like you mentioned that but my first thought was the the quote unquote healthy option that we sometimes have in America of frozen yogurt bars that pop up, except
00:38:27
Speaker
You then have to pay by weight. And let me tell you, yes, it always weighs more than I'm planning on it weighing. Because I mix like a bunch of like frozen yogurt in and then I go over and put toppings. Yeah, and then you're like, and I gotta get some Oreos and some gummy bears, some whipped cream, it's a fruit. So I don't feel guilty. Yeah. And some raspberries on top to make people think I make good choices.
00:38:51
Speaker
What I really think of like that excess piece that yes like you said sugars like we eat a lot more donuts or you know people talk about like the difference and maybe getting a scone in America versus even getting a scone somewhere like Britain isn't like we make them sickly sweet to the point that it's like yeah, yeah, and I mean I
00:39:11
Speaker
Yeah. And that is more or less the case for some of these. Your pancakes, your waffles, your French toast don't necessarily have to be that and aren't always, but they are very much vehicles for that excess sometimes where it's like, all right, I'm going to put some syrup on this. That's not bad. Or like one time, a long time ago when I used to make pancakes a lot, or no waffles, because actually I busted up my waffle iron this weekend. I'm not sure if I told you.
00:39:35
Speaker
It's been fifteen years since i use the thing and i made a mess but it was glorious. Well exactly i mean and also we're talking. Red chef here but to go back to fairly good choices like years ago i found i was playing around with extracts so i made.
00:39:55
Speaker
waffles and I found a good mix and I have no idea what that was so I have to rediscover it now where I use pineapple, coconut and orange extract and then coconut, orange and banana extracts and then instead of syrup I do whipped cream which if you don't go ridiculous isn't too bad and then crushed pineapple.
00:40:17
Speaker
And that's my pina colada waffle, which by the way, I did mention included orange because my version of a pina colada was always from Orange Julius. So that's a whole other thing going back.
00:40:29
Speaker
just what I me as a kid and what we did. But so like, that was really good. And actually not terrible in the way that we're talking about here. So that gets away from some of that and French however, you brought up something interesting in that discussion, which is extracts.
00:40:48
Speaker
Yes, so extracts. We have not really had a chance to talk about them. I mean, they haven't really come up with anything else that we've been talking about baking. They come up more because they're often used to give you burst of flavor without using a ton of a natural ingredient.
00:41:03
Speaker
So they're like the most blue thing ever. I mean, they talk on so many cooking shows that like, you need to be very careful if you're using extracts, because a little goes a very long way. And the idea is because you don't really want to be adding a ton of like, say, liquid to something to be able to get your citrus flavor in, you know, this is why you also use like the zest of an orange. But the other way to do it is to use an extract, which is a highly concentrated, like chemical version of it, you know,
00:41:30
Speaker
If you if people don't know this vanilla extract, if you want to know how to do you know how to make vanilla extract, Alex? I don't. This is literally what you could do if you want to make it yourself. You need a clear bottle of alcohol. So some sort of a clear alcohol, not a ton of flavor in them like a vodka. You can also use things like you don't like ever clear or mean like you but you need like a grain alcohol that is a clear liquid and you soak a vanilla bean in it.
00:42:00
Speaker
for like a month in like a dark place. Um, but that's literally what extract is. It is pulling that flavor in a way that then you're, you're pairing it with something that is more neutral, but is not like it is a scientific process of like breaking down all of that flavor into the vanilla and then giving you kind of a thing that you can use to mimic the flavor of the vanilla, but make it go a lot further.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's kind of what artificial sweeteners are. That's, this is a whole thing that the God Lord, this is this is rabbit ball. But like, the artificial sweeteners in like diet pop are like, many of them are hundreds or thousands of times sweeter than sugar. And that's why their diet because you include so much less of them than actual sugar.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, so like it just made me think is we're talking about extract with use for baking because a lot of our bake things are baked goods. It's like this is you don't want too much, you know, you want to get that flavor in, but you don't want to be adding like liquid to a baked good because it's much more of a science necessarily to it. And so that's extract is a clear way to see how blue can be brought into these.
00:43:09
Speaker
Yeah. That's a side tangent for breakfast. Just the first time it's ever come up. That's good. It's a good tangent. I'm glad I decided to tangent myself and then we could tangent off of that tangent and then come back.
00:43:20
Speaker
At some point. We have more breakfast foods to discuss? I do have more breakfast foods to discuss. So one other general thing is there are some particular dishes. Chicken and waffles is one. I have a couple others that we'll talk about. But a lot of American breakfast stuff kind of boils down to the same handful of things. And you get like platters of these foods, or maybe you'll do like an omelet or things. It's generally your grains, like bread or muffins or pancakes.
00:43:49
Speaker
And then like hash browns.
00:43:53
Speaker
and then some breakfast protein and eggs. And it's weird, like all of our breakfast protein, I've been thinking about this recently, is basically all pig, bacon and ham. I don't know why we just looked at a pig and said, that's breakfast. And then a cow was like, you aren't. And that's apparently what Americans did. But not pork, I suppose. So it's like some portion of you are breakfast, like a lot of you, but not all of you are breakfast.
00:44:21
Speaker
and then looked at the next animal. So it was like, all of y'all get in line for lunch and dinner. Yeah, I guess. But that's a really good point. I was thinking through platters was my next thing, which actually even translates to the full English breakfast. So that is where there's some kind of similarities between American. But I feel like America takes it to, once again, either a more extreme level or just we add a lot of sugar and stuff to it.
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah, you get your you get your grand slams. We're talking there is very specifically Dennis cuz God But a full English breakfast where people don't know is like tomatoes eggs mushrooms ham
00:45:04
Speaker
sausage and often like baked beans or a form of beans and then like then honestly it then What I would consider the full it would be you would get some sort of blood pudding
00:45:18
Speaker
So that's where we get into the weirder kind of things. But the idea is like, it's a it's some of everything. Yeah, that kind of just like, but like you said, like a lot of American places, if you go to the breakfast menu, it is some form of these where you get to personalize them, but they all kind of have similar elements.
00:45:37
Speaker
Yes, that's a very common thing. That's also kind of a common diner thing. Diners will tend to have a lot of the pancakes and waffles and sausage and bacon and eggs and hash browns. And that's sort of kind of the cornerstone of that food group in the diner thing. So I'm curious with these platters, where do you put them?
00:45:59
Speaker
Um, there's definitely culturally, there's a lot of white because it's very common touchstones in our culture. Like there is just about anywhere in the country you go to a place that's going to serve breakfast, you can get like bacon and eggs. That's just going to be a thing. Um, honestly.
00:46:21
Speaker
There's a lot of greed in that too, because most of those, at least those portions of it, the protein is just the protein. I guess sausage is its own thing, but like bacon, ham, eggs, even hash browns, that's a chopped up potato that you fry. There's not a ton of processing to it.
00:46:39
Speaker
Yep. I would say it all kind of depends on what you do with it. Like just because of who we are, our portions tend to be more excessive. So you might get kind of an abs in there from portion size, but from the actual cooking of the particular items, it's maybe more white, white, more green, depending on the specifics. Yeah, I can see this. So I had another one that is very much something that I like.
00:47:06
Speaker
I actually am almost willing to go out on the limit and give this a mono color for the black because I think it is the most indulgent thing ever. Yeah. So chicken fried steak. So people don't know this is a steak that has been breaded and fried chicken fried steak.
00:47:28
Speaker
with eggs, and oftentimes you get them at like a diner, they're going to come with pancakes too. Oh, and it comes with a country gravy. Well, that was the last thing I was going to element. You know, we've talked about gravy as like Mark's third example. This is a fried steak. So yes, yes. It's not an authority of steak. It's fried.
00:47:47
Speaker
and then you pour gravy on top of it like a nice white just like lard is my guess usually some flour water just like it's all it is it is flavor it really is flavor too and i will tell you oh god 20 year old hobs would eat like an entire
00:48:08
Speaker
this in one setting. But like, that to me, I don't even know where else I would put that. Yeah, that's that's very black here. And I don't think you could do anything else with it. There's, there's nothing green about it. There's nothing even really blue about it. Even though you're doing a lot of work to these ingredients. You're not like, trying to bring out something new. You're not trying to experiment and do other you know, present them in different ways. Just like, no, more fat, more for flavor.
00:48:35
Speaker
Right. And it's not like a red, but it's an experience necessarily, or even an intensity. It's not even an intense flavor, right? To any other color is simply culturally, there's some element of white, but even that I think is comfort.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah, there's some comfort. But I think that's even less because it's, it's, that's a much less common thing these days. I think it still exists in America and people are generally familiar with it. But I think it's a lot less common. Yeah, then it used to be. Now, I was excited about this one, because that's like, that's a good one, man. If I can eat food with just zero consequences, and that's the whole point. It is that
00:49:16
Speaker
And the eggs too, just because you gotta dip the bread or the breaded meat into the eggs. See, I'm not a big fan of yolks, so my eggs are always over hard. And now I need a new co-host. Does anyone want to join me? I was just going to say, I was literally just about to say things you learn about your co-host on a Monday night.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, and to be perfectly honest at this point, I don't actually get eggs all that often. I'll get eggs here and there, but... I think it would be better to just move on to any other food you have listed. So to piggyback onto that into something that has some passing similarities, I want to talk about biscuits and gravy.
00:50:04
Speaker
This is the one that I warned you about months ago when we prepared this episode. This is what kicked off the idea. Yeah, it was. This is one of my favorite things. And so this is Southern-style, American-style biscuits, which is not what some people hear when I say the word biscuit.
00:50:25
Speaker
because they have different definitions of that in their particular culture. I know that's a thing in Britain, I don't know if Greater Europe or the UK, that's a thing. Biscuits are closer to
00:50:39
Speaker
Cookies are sweeter baked things that we have here. Biscuit doesn't include our cookies, yeah. Yeah. Southern American style biscuit are buttery and they're rich. It's not a sweet thing though. Sometimes you'll serve it with honey or jam or something that is sweet on it, but on its own, it's not sweet.
00:51:02
Speaker
But it's it's flaky and butter lots and lots of butter like that's an important part of making a biscuit is putting lots of butter And then a sausage gravy this is
00:51:14
Speaker
at least the traditional version of this. So it's like a country gravy, but then you put sausage in it. And then you're adding more fat in it that way. This is something that I got, actually, I gotta make this again. My sister's recipe was really, really basic. It's sausage. You fry that sausage until it greases all out of it, and then you put in flour and milk. And when it thickens, you add a lot of black pepper, more than you want.
00:51:44
Speaker
Well, more. And then just you add more and then you add some more than that. Because at least I do. I love black pepper. That's part of why I like the biscuits and gravy. And it's, in that way, it's a fairly simple thing. It's just a couple of flavors. You get the biscuit and what, no, biscuits aren't terribly simple to make. And I'll be honest, I've never made my own. I just get some canned ones that I can make that are easier to make for me. But that gravy is just lots of sausage, lots of black pepper.
00:52:13
Speaker
And, you know, with the milk and the flour, there's a little bit of creaminess in there, but it's a love biscuits and gravy. It's probably my favorite breakfast thing. Once again, this is when you hit this is when you pitched the idea to me. This is where the initial discussion even came up of
00:52:30
Speaker
are we gonna be talking about everything as mono black? And this is actually where we first tangented into even thinking about hybrid, which we were visiting in Thanksgiving, or we talked a lot more about in the Thanksgiving episode if people wanna go back. But I was saying that it kind of was getting to the point where either everything was going to be black X or we had to kind of think of other ways to be looking at this, which it's like it happens with certain mechanics or certain elements of magic. I mean, I think that that is something that happens where you kind of try to think about, well,
00:53:00
Speaker
Oh, I mean, we did talk about this last time. You know, secondary and tertiary colors for a mechanic like haste, right? Talking about the color pie as less like the color identity of a particular card or like a legend who is three colors, thinking of it more of like a mechanic, like you said, like haste, that is in, you know, primary in this color, secondary in this color, tertiary in this color.
00:53:27
Speaker
And that's, that is. And these, these foods that we're talking about are the, I think the reasons this has been the first category where I most clearly have had a harder time. Like it, and trust me, there are tons of other breakfast foods that we're not discussing today that granola and yogurt, right? You know, like there's things that people do eat, but we're trying to think of like what we think of for like breakfast foods. And we're talking about like, we're talking kind of decadence.
00:53:54
Speaker
You know, I was going to switch us because I know we're getting close. I don't know how many more you have, but just one. Cool. Because I'm going to take us in the like the direction of just like where I need to know your opinions because I cannot comment on these without feeling revolted in my soul. Oh, okay. Which is any form of oatmeal.
00:54:19
Speaker
Cream of wheat, the consistencies of those warm cereals. Yes. I cannot comment on that because I literally cannot get through the texture of them. That's fair. I have a hard time with cream of wheat in particular. I will eat oatmeal occasionally.
00:54:42
Speaker
I think there is some green element that's a little more of a natural thing, some of it. Depends on what it is. I guess I don't know what the hell cream of wheat is. That might be more blue, but I don't know. I'm not actually sure how that's made. I know oatmeal itself is a little more natural. It's oats, basically, boiled until they're kind of mushy. Yes. Sort of. Yeah, I mean, they are.
00:55:07
Speaker
Yeah, they're not recognizable. When I get oatmeal, I make it super sugary. Yeah, like I will legitimately add milk, brown sugar.
00:55:27
Speaker
raisins and syrup to my oatmeal until it's just like a sugary soup like substance and that's much more of black use of that particular those particular ingredients.
00:55:43
Speaker
I don't know. I think we're just trying to make them palatable. That's just how I do it. I mean, they're like bull. I mean, that's the thing. They are a natural ingredient, but they're... That is some of it. The natural taste of it, I'm not a big fan of. So it's like, I gotta add stuff to it. This is the whole category. I guess I honed in on those, but these are all ideas of porridges. Yep.
00:56:03
Speaker
Because grits is the other one that I think, but grits, I think of as having a much more cultural aspect component to it. So I was trying to think like poor grits is is used a little bit more widely than this grits is definitely a is a food that is eaten for breakfast, but it is also it has other context to it as well.
00:56:25
Speaker
Or maybe it's just, I think some of the meals that I know of like, like you do like shrimp and grits and stuff like that. Or is that true? No, that is the dinner entree would be shipping. Yeah. It is used, you know, for breakfast, like it is definitely offered for breakfast. Sometimes it is part of a breakfast thing. And I guess that is
00:56:46
Speaker
probably the closest analog for it is, is the porridges. It is porridges. I mean, they're not like grits is like a cornmeal based one. Oatmeal is kind of an oat or wheat one cream of wheat. Same thing, except it's a consistency. You know, it's, but to me, it's like, God, I just, these, these, they have bland textures on their own. And I, and the texture is, is, I don't quite say slimy, but it's kind of slimy.
00:57:14
Speaker
It can't be. Texture is not good. I know plenty of people that love these textures. And this is why I like textures is a really interesting element of food we have not talked a ton about. Yeah. But a lot of my food aversions or things that I don't like when it comes to food tend to fall into this texture category. And this is just off the cuff and maybe we change this opinion. But I'm not sure texture breaks down into color as well.
00:57:42
Speaker
But we can kind of think about that because try to think of what it does. It might not. Texture is colorless. Yeah. We got there, right? Like, yeah, that is very it's a very good point. So does it make oatmeal colorless? We're just going to call it colorless and walk away. I mean, it's kind of like looking at a bowl of oatmeal feels pretty colorless to me. It's about the same color as the old borders, I guess.
00:58:15
Speaker
And that's our show for today. You can find the host on Twitter. HotzQ can be found at HotzQ, and Alex Newman can be found at Mel.com. Send any questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to at goblinmoorpod on Twitter, or email us at goblinmoorpodcast at email.com. If you want to support your friendly neighborhood gobsmores, the cast can be found at patreon.com.
00:58:40
Speaker
Opening and closing music by Vindergotten, who can be found on Twitter at Vindergotten, or online at vindergotten.bandcamp.com. Logo art by Steven Raffaele, who can be found on Twitter at Steve Raffaele. Babylon Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast as part of their growing Vorthos content, as well as magic content of all kinds. Check them out on Twitter at hipstersmtg, or online at hipstersofthecoast.com.
00:59:10
Speaker
Thank you all for listening, and remember, goblins, like snowflakes, are only dangerous in numbers.