Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Transitioning into Winter
155 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Grant and Fara talk about transitioning into winter. They reflect on some of the physical and mental changes that might happen during the winter season, and how we can better react to these changes: seeking help, understanding and listening to our bodies, and more.
We hope you enjoy.
Recommended
Transcript
Understanding Procrastination
00:00:00
Speaker
One of the biggest reasons for procrastination, in my understanding, we tend to procrastinate when we have strong negative emotions that we can't identify and regulate. So procrastination happens when there's too much anxiety. So, hey, I'm just going to watch TV now instead.
Introduction to Doorknob Comments
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello, I'm Dr. Farah White.
00:00:20
Speaker
And I'm Dr. Grant Brenner. We're psychiatrists and therapists in private practice in New York. We started this podcast in 2019 to draw attention to a phenomenon called the door knob comment. Door knob comments are important things we all say from time to time just as we're leaving the office, sometimes literally hand on the door knob.
00:00:39
Speaker
Doorknob comments happen not only during therapy, but also in everyday life. The point is that sometimes we aren't sure how to express the deeply meaningful things we're feeling, thinking and experiencing.
Challenges in Expressing Emotions
00:00:50
Speaker
Maybe we're afraid to bring certain things out into the open or are on the fence about wanting to discuss them. Sometimes we know we've got something we're unsure about sharing and are keeping it to ourselves. And sometimes we surprise ourselves by what comes out.
Time Management and Habit Formation
00:01:06
Speaker
Hi.
00:01:07
Speaker
I'm Farrah White, thanks for tuning in to Dornop Comments today, here with my co-host, Grant Brenner. So I'm excited to be back here and recording with you, Grant. I know that we wanted to
00:01:24
Speaker
sort of discuss something that was topical and of the moment. And so what I really want to talk about is how people manage their time. And the reason I'm interested in doing that is because I think that right now is a moment that people are getting into routine and habits. And I wonder if there's something that we can offer in terms of, I don't know, bringing that
Complexity of Procrastination
00:01:54
Speaker
to bear. You know, my advice to people who are having difficulty implementing a plan is to just do it. Well, just do it, you know, like don't dither. Of course, I'm joking because procrastination is it means so many different things.
00:02:14
Speaker
It's like the word lazy. It means so many different things, but it doesn't really help us get, get cooking. I think those labels actually, sometimes they help if they lead to kind of actionable steps.
Winter's Biological Rhythms vs Cultural Demands
00:02:26
Speaker
But do you think this time of year, you know, is relevant in terms of getting stuff done? Cause I also feel like as the winter approaches and it depends on who you are, but there is a certain biological rhythm. If you live in the, you know, the Northern hemisphere, I don't want to be hemisphere centric.
00:02:44
Speaker
As the winter approaches, there's a certain natural tendency to want to kind of hole up and not do anything, right? I've spent the winter, you know, storing food. I've been doing a lot of canning.
00:02:55
Speaker
I know that there's a lot of scarcity, right? We're probably going to isolate from people because of the increased risk of disease and contagion during the winter. Ideally, I would just sleep for the next several months and I'll wake up in the spring. So I'm going to be eating a lot of ice cream and calorie dense food so I can hibernate. So dry humor aside, I do think there's a way where the natural tendency might be to kind of shut down a little bit during the winter.
00:03:25
Speaker
and conserve energy, but our culture is very, we tend to be very productivity driven, especially in large urban centers, right? Right. Conversations always start out with, what do you do? And then, oh, I'm so busy. And so we may be kind of fighting our own natures in some ways. And I wonder if that's part of why it comes up now. Aside from like the summer is over and sort of back to work or back to school, but I also think the winter is a time of kind of slowing down
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah. And we're in between now the equinox and the solstice. So the days will be getting shorter and shorter until until then until the solstice.
Exploring Light Therapy for SAD
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I think with the shorter day and fewer hours of sunlight, there are some changes that happen in our bodies and our minds. Right. And maybe just touching on a few of those. The one that comes to mind really and that did when you were joking around is the idea of
00:04:21
Speaker
a sort of seasonally effective mood. Yeah, seasonal affective disorder is like the diagnostic manual term, right? Mm-hmm. Do meds help with that? Or light therapy, how do you usually treat, how do you diagnose that?
00:04:35
Speaker
Lightbox therapy is actually really useful. I have seen some great results with that. Do you have an example? Like, how would someone use light therapy? How do you prescribe it typically? There are light boxes. I mean, I guess we could. Well, I don't know if we want to. I feel like people should ask their mental health professionals. But what I do is there are a few different light boxes that I recommend.
00:05:02
Speaker
And you can get them on Amazon or wherever you should definitely check with your doctor as to like which particular brand. But it's important to recognize that they have to they have to supply an appropriate dose of the right kinds of light. And there's some research on which kinds of light are better.
00:05:20
Speaker
Sometimes it's more broad spectrum, some research on blue and green wavelengths. But it generally has to be a fairly intense light, something around 10,000 lux. And usually that is administered in the morning for at least 20 or 30 minutes in order to kind of trick the brain into thinking that it's not winter, basically.
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah. And that, you know. Don't do it at home. You should work with a professional if that's a factor. Right. Although it's hard to imagine, right? There are tons of people who seek out different types of light therapy. Hard to imagine other than like going and getting burnt to a crisp, but it would be damaging. But who knows? I know
00:06:07
Speaker
You mean like formal light therapy devices. They can have some side effects. They can sometimes cause headaches, eye strain. There's some, I think, largely theoretical concern, but important to be working with someone that they can push someone into a hyperactive state. And this is different from kind of getting outside and going into nature. Those things are really helpful in their own right. Right, which is also really important.
00:06:32
Speaker
But light therapy is a kind of a medicalized therapeutic. You have to have a certain intensity of light for a certain duration of time. Right. But generally, I really like it. It depends sort of on how much light someone is getting in their day
Seasonal Impact on Mental Health
00:06:50
Speaker
-to-day. There are people in New York who live in rooms with no windows and who go work in an office.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah, we have to be careful. Do you have some? You're chuckling because my current office doesn't have windows. But I go outside often. I'm right on the park. Yes, you do. And I don't think I'm prone to seasonal depression because of circadian rhythms I tend to get down in the winter because it's the anniversary of a significant death, which just makes me so much fun to hang out with.
00:07:23
Speaker
So, okay, so getting back sort of to the topic is kind of like, okay, so there may be lots of different reasons and the holidays are coming and people have family things that get kicked up. There's innumerable podcasts and blogs about how to deal with your family dysfunction during the holidays. I also think one more thing in addition to, you know, just in terms of treatment is that sometimes, um,
00:07:52
Speaker
it can be a time to change the dosages of medications. And that type of thing is also more fluid than a lot of people think or imagine. So if people are on an SSRI, I always recommend sort of checking in with their psychiatrist or whoever's prescribing.
00:08:13
Speaker
It's good to catch it ahead of time, right? Right. Because once it gets started, it's harder to stop. So now is a good time to have that conversation. And you can ask yourself, yeah, do I have a seasonal change? Do I tend to feel worse? And some people feel worse right away. I definitely have people who are early on, September. And then you're kind of like, well, how much of that is a psychological emotional? Because summer is ending, and how much of it is a change in the seasons?
00:08:40
Speaker
And then some people, it really hits them later in the winter. So it is really good to kind of look back and think about what happens each year. And behavioral changes help as well, right? It's not all meds and light boxes. It is getting out and staying active and managing your sleep-wake schedule and all those active things. But again, an interesting point. So you have a lot of things you want to do, right? You had a lot of goals, right? Now we're coming into summer, you being someone who's listening.
00:09:08
Speaker
And yeah, I'm not sure I'm going to stick the landing dock. What should I do? What's your advice? Well, I think first is to make sure that the goals that we've set for ourselves and the schedule that we're hoping to maintain is realistic. Let's say academics are always a challenge and we have someone who's a sophomore in college. They've struggled through freshman year.
00:09:36
Speaker
but ultimately managed to pass everything. And they, you know, are able to manage three courses and like maybe some sort of an elective. And then they decide, okay, I'm going to take five courses and two of them are pre-med. Well, what does that mean? The two of them are pre-med? Meaning they come with labs or they come with a ton of work
Strategies to Combat Procrastination
00:09:56
Speaker
or. So this won't work. They might be harder. Yeah. And there might be some pressure as well. Cause you're like,
00:10:03
Speaker
No pressure, but your whole future depends on these grades. No pressure though. And by the way, you got to take the MCATs, the medical college admission tests, so you'd better start thinking about that as well. Well, I was not really thinking about that. No, there's pressure though. I think that's important. One of the biggest reasons for procrastination in my understanding, and there's a little bit of like brain science to back it up, is that we tend to procrastinate when we have strong negative emotions that we can't
00:10:32
Speaker
identify and regulate. So procrastination happens when there's too much anxiety. So hey, I'm just going to just watch TV now instead. So in order to sort of buckle down and push through and do what we need to do, it does require moment by moment management of negative feelings, especially to get over the hump and get started.
00:10:54
Speaker
often when people get started, they're like, oh, that wasn't so bad. And then you start getting the reward that you're doing actually what you're supposed to do. But that avoidant moment where the emotions are too strong and negative and people turn to a coping strategy that actually distracts them from doing the work, that's sort of like a key factor in procrastination. And if people are ready for that, when you know you're going to sit down and write your notes or start studying, it's good to have a plan for when that happens.
00:11:24
Speaker
That's kind of one of my key tips. Yeah. Well, I'll share my plan and then you can tell us yours. But what I usually do is if there's something that I'm really not looking forward to, I will sort of sandwich it in between two things that aren't really that bad, that help me feel productive and build a little bit of confidence. So that might be doing a task that
00:11:48
Speaker
is kind of low effort and then I am already sitting there. I already have my computer open and I'm able to do the thing that's a little bit harder and then maybe as soon as that's done, go back to something that's easier and be done for the night. So I try not to open my computer, sit down with it,
00:12:12
Speaker
get up and go do something else and come back because I feel like that only prolongs the torture. What is the torture for you? The torture is something that I don't want to do, that I know I have to do. And sometimes it could be responding to an email or sometimes it could be something that I have to write or reading something that I have to read that I'm not really looking forward to. What's the negative emotion with things like that usually?
00:12:43
Speaker
Well, I think part of it is just personality driven. I'm a little bit oppositional and I don't like to do things that I don't want to do. But do you think that's like hardwired or is that sort of a learned behavior? So if I'm oppositional, then when I try to sit down, I'm just thinking out loud.
00:13:05
Speaker
and I'm gonna force myself to do something that I don't wanna do. And maybe I think I shouldn't have to do, maybe I'm a little entitled even, or maybe I wish someone else would do it for me, or maybe I'm resentful, because I do so much for everyone else, that there's a way where it's almost self-defeating.
Self-dialogue and Procrastination
00:13:21
Speaker
So one of my tips is, well, you have to know yourself, but what does that really mean? It means that at those moments, you actually have,
00:13:30
Speaker
a good dialogue with yourself, and you kind of cut a deal with yourself. A lot of people will use sort of tricks to study, like they'll get an M&M whenever they finish a section or something. Those things can help. But I'm talking more like, okay, so the part of me that kind of wants to play along with what you're supposed to do, and the part of me that is like, you know, take this job and shove it, that's a Dolly Parton reference for those of you who remember the 80s, nine to five, you know, you have to come to terms with your own conflict.
00:14:00
Speaker
And in order to come to terms with conflict, it has to be conscious, right? Unconscious, unconscious conflict drives a lot of procrastination as well. Or, you know, sometimes there's productive procrastination, like I've got to write that report, but I'm going to clean all the bathrooms in the house. And then it kind of discharges that tension to be productive. But that little part of you is left kind of going, yeah, but you didn't do what you were supposed to do. So you're still, you're still bad.
00:14:28
Speaker
Right, and so why is it, right, that we would avoid doing some things but not others? It's good to be bad. And what? It's good to be bad. Well, I think a lot of it is, you're right, having a sort of dialogue with yourself and also trying to understand if the sort of anticipatory anxiety or dread that we feel
00:14:55
Speaker
Like, what is that really about? So let's say I need to renew my CDS of New Jersey. What's CDS? So in New Jersey, it's a controlled substance like sort of registry that's separate from the DEA and separate from the licensure. And it's just like this very annoying thing that comes in an official looking, you know, those notices.
00:15:22
Speaker
The kind of like fold out one where you have to like, you have to fold it and tear it in. I hate those so much. What do you find annoying about it? What's your earliest memory of getting one of those?
00:15:34
Speaker
When did this start? It's never good. It's always like a parking ticket or jury duty. It's always something that I have to do. It's from an authority figure where you're reminded that in some ways, if you want to participate in our society, then you cede a level of control. Correct.
00:15:54
Speaker
Correct. And maybe I have, you know, some, uh, hangups about that. Maybe it's the part of my job that I don't enjoy. And I just want to see patients and do my thing and, um, keeping track of not just the CDS, but, uh, you know, uh, my malpractice of my licensure in multiple. It's endless. We live in a very bureaucratic society, right? Right. And so true everywhere.
00:16:21
Speaker
It's not true everywhere. I think it's actually a good thing for most doctors. I think it's important to have some sort of bureaucracy and some sort of regulation and know that people aren't like out there being total maniacs. But so in that sense, that's sort of how... Total maniacs? Yeah. That there are these checks and balances in place and that you can't practice.
00:16:49
Speaker
if you can't do these basic things, right? Yeah, I tend to agree, yeah. I like your language was very colorful. Total maniacs, a little scary, right? So what are you implying? I think a lot of people feel the way you feel.
00:17:09
Speaker
letter in the mail. Sometimes what I've seen is now sales come ons are designed to look like those official letters. They send them in the same kind of like glued up, you know, fold and tear like official document. And it looks like an official document where it's like those loan offers that look like a check, you know? Yeah. And the psychology is really fascinating. I don't think they should be allowed to do that.
00:17:32
Speaker
So, so how do you do all that stuff? So, you know, there's this context, you like set yourself up to succeed, right? And then you change your habits little by little, because these things get really, um, they become muscle memory to just like throw the mail in a pile and then forget, forget about
Role of Authority in Task Completion
00:17:50
Speaker
it. Like literally, like then you just totally forget about it. Like it doesn't exist. And then you get another one and you're like, Oh wait, that was the CDS deadline.
00:17:59
Speaker
but they know, so they're not like, sorry, you can't practice medicine anymore. They're like, you must log in by today and then you do it. Correct, but I'd rather have as little interaction as necessary and just do it on my own.
00:18:17
Speaker
Necessity kind of overcomes the resistance. Right. Like when you approach a deadline, like a lot of people by putting things off, they create the motivation because they now have this external deadline and then they have to kind of surrender. So any kind of oppositionalism
00:18:35
Speaker
right, comes to a head as the deadline approaches, but the person's will is kind of outsourced. And then I think what I found is people don't like that. They end up feeling worse about themselves. If you are able to mobilize yourself and do things proactively, it requires sort of collaborating with maybe the undesired authority figure, but you can also identify with the authority and then you end up, you know, getting stuff done.
00:19:01
Speaker
Right. But that also could relate to kind of like you said, personality, but also maturity. But people might feel like that they're giving up in a way to giving up some autonomy.
00:19:12
Speaker
Right. And there's one additional thing that we haven't been, you know, mentioned, which is people who have a lot of trouble managing time, or people who routinely need some sort of external pressure to complete tasks like that, that could be a hallmark, right, of some other sort of like executive function disorder, like ADHD,
00:19:38
Speaker
The differential diagnosis of difficulty completing tasks is fairly large. And a lot of times we get quick answers that aren't accurate. So, you know, people who are depressed can have trouble with motivation and planning. People with anxiety can be more avoidant or have trouble making decisions and thinking through things. People with attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder can have difficulty deploying intentional resources.
00:20:05
Speaker
Right. They might not be able to stay on task, right? They might find themselves jumping. Sustained attention is problematic. Yeah. Sustained versus focal attention. There's also other disorders of executive function that are not ADHD that require more careful assessment, usually neuropsychological testing. What else is on that list? Drug and alcohol use, sleep deprivation. Oh, big one. Had a supervisor who was an expert in this.
00:20:36
Speaker
really actually shaped my practice, but unbelievably in that everybody evaluates for it. Well, you know, what I find clinically is, especially with the influence of social media where people may get information, which is like sort of too facile. It's too easy. Like, oh, I saw that video. I have ADHD. Like that's kind of the thing. Now there's ADHD medication shortages.
00:21:00
Speaker
Medications don't, you know, they can help with ADHD, but a lot of times the habits also need to be changed. And then there's another side of that ADHD, which is kind of like, well, maybe it's just a variation and that's a good thing because I'm more creative and I can handle this stuff, but I do need to send in that paperwork.
00:21:17
Speaker
So, yeah, I think you're right. The evaluation is important because particularly some of the medications for ADHD kind of will alleviate a lot of different symptoms. So, if you get a clinical diagnosis of ADHD, it may be accurate, but it may be worth a deeper dive. And there may be overlapping things, right? We're also mentioning substance and alcohol misuse can impair attention, sleep disorders.
00:21:42
Speaker
You know, if you have obstructive sleep apnea and you can't focus, you know, that can be also medically really consequential. It can cause heart disease and stuff. It's like, well, here's a stimulant and that will treat some of the symptoms of fatigue, but it will put off getting proper evaluation and treatment. Right. Right. Which is why I think we're just touching on a lot of things. But I know how, you know, just in terms of
Mental Health and Daily Activities
00:22:09
Speaker
other stuff, like what I was joking about before was the idea of trauma affecting cognitive function. Grief. Grief. And making it not just harder to do the little things, but hard to do, I guess, the more basic, they call them ADLs, right? Activities of daily living. Right.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, like self-care is really important. You have to, ideally it's helpful to tend to your basic needs and that will put anyone in the best position to follow through on plans they have and also make realistic plans in the first place.
00:22:51
Speaker
Right. Right. But I guess we should probably just put it out there and say that if people find themselves struggling to get up, to brush their teeth, to shower, that's actually a really normal thing that we see all the time as psychiatrists. Normal versus like a symptom of major depressive disorder. It's a very common thing that we see.
00:23:13
Speaker
and a very normal reaction to depressed mood, unprocessed trauma, anxiety, all of these things can actually manifest in those ways. And I think it's something that people
00:23:28
Speaker
I don't know, they don't talk about it that much, right? What do you mean? Meaning, okay, when we see someone, we don't do a physical exam, right? We do something that's called, and that's something in our notes called a mental, you know, you want to talk about it, like exactly what we look at as psychiatrists.
00:23:47
Speaker
A mental status exam? Right. Yeah, no, I mean, we don't typically do like a full physical, but I do want everyone who I'm working with, who I'm treating, to have a primary care who's reliable and have good annual exam and labs.
Challenges of Virtual Consultations
00:24:02
Speaker
But we do visually examine people. That's one of the reasons why meeting in person can be helpful because, you know, you can tell a lot in person without doing a formal physical exam.
00:24:13
Speaker
Part of the physical exam is, you know, to be medical, you know, visual inspection. I remember when I trained in medical school, like, you know, the old sort of battle, you know, battle hardened docs, you know, she might say, well, you know, watch the patient walk down the hall. I learned more watching the patient walk down the hall to my office than I do from talking to them, because you can tell a lot. But I do ask patients about hygiene and sleep habits.
00:24:40
Speaker
you know, routinely. And if you don't ask, a lot of times people won't bring it up. And if you don't meet with people in person, it's much easier for people to mask problems over virtual visits. Exactly. I'm sure we've all seen a funny cartoon or two about that. Yeah. That part of your apartment that's clean is just that little box behind you.
00:25:00
Speaker
But that's something that I will try to look at, right? I will try and this is not in a critical or judgmental way. But if I see someone who looks like they haven't washed their hair in three or four days, that's a sign to me that, you know, maybe they're not doing so well.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah, and that would be maybe harder to pick up over video. Don't you have like a little Dr. White bot drone that you send to all your patients kind of like there's something called remote patient monitoring, you know, and so companies like you can have a blood pressure cuff at home and it will connect to the Wi-Fi and it will push the data for blood pressure to your doctor's, you know, office.
00:25:40
Speaker
In our case, actually some of the stimulant medications and some of the antidepressants can cause blood pressure elevations. Some of medications for PTSD or anxiety may lower blood pressure. And so it's really important to monitor blood pressure, but I think a lot of times people go to a psychiatrist and they're like, well, what do you mean you need to check my blood pressure? Like just give me an antidepressant, you know, just give me a stimulant. And it's like, well, I don't want to inadvertently hurt you, right?
00:26:05
Speaker
It's our first, the prime directive in medicine is premium non-nocery first, do no harm. But don't you have like a drone that you can check, see what's going on? No, is that just a paranoid fantasy? Maybe one day, you know, you could probably do that with like an electric toothbrush. You could see how many times people turn it on, but I guess, you know,
00:26:24
Speaker
There's plenty of things like that, internet of things. And joking aside, there are a lot of applications in other branches of medicine. We don't tend to use them as much in psychiatry, but you know, I think that could be a different podcast episode is like the kind of pros and cons of that type of surveillance, right? People might feel uncomfortable with surveillance, but you know, we do have a tendency to hide things or not to know that they're important. Oh, I didn't know it was important to tell you whether or not I was bathing.
00:26:52
Speaker
Plus it's embarrassing, right? If you call something, when's the last time you showered? You kind of smell a little funky. How do you bring that up tactfully? That's why I'm saying that I actually want to talk about it because I don't think it's that embarrassing. But people often find that embarrassing if you say to someone, hey, you smell bad.
00:27:13
Speaker
Right. But as someone who's in charge of their mental health, it's not like saying like, oh, you smell bad. Like, don't sit next to me. It's saying like, oh, you don't feel well enough to take care of your body right now. And what does that mean about
00:27:31
Speaker
all the other things in your life that are less important or, I mean, what a lot of moms do is they, you know, the baby has a bath every night and the baby has like a routine and the moms are like, wait, what? I haven't eaten. I haven't showered. I haven't brushed my teeth. But it's like, I think it's important to ask about the question is how do you bring it up exactly so it doesn't feel stigmatizing or embarrassing. That's why I'm saying it right here.
00:27:54
Speaker
Plus it's like, I think if you're a mom, then you're like, I want someone to pick me up and just bathe me and nurture me. When do I get nurtured? Because mom's on average bear greater responsibility for childcare, though of course there's variations. And that can also make it hard to plan things. Like I have all these other things I wanna do, but I've gotta pick the kids up and I've gotta make sure there's food.
00:28:22
Speaker
Gee, I hope my partner is going to back me up, but a lot of times people don't get that kind of... That's what I was going to say at the beginning. A lot of these plans that we have, they really require a community. Totally. And even if you have a goal like a fitness goal, it helps a great deal to have an accountability partner, an online group or a gym buddy. A lot of people use a trainer. Therapy can help with that as well, in terms of having regular meetings where you review what your goals are.
00:28:49
Speaker
even if it's not, you know, explicit, it can be explicit. But even just seeing someone and kind of talking about it keeps it in your mind in a different way than if you kind of, it's just you, people. Somehow people don't feel like they are obligated to treat themselves well. A lot of people will feel more obligated to take care of others than their own needs, right? Right. This is sort of a type of morality, perhaps. But that's where I think
00:29:19
Speaker
a therapist, a psychiatrist, a good friend, where other people can come in.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, but to your point about like falling through on plans, there can be an element of morality because we can be quite critical of ourselves and others for not falling through. And if it's kind of not the person's fault, right, you don't want to blame people, you want to be able to help them, sort of like with the hygiene, like I don't want to shame you. Yeah, like I personally don't think anybody would choose to go, I just hate the word
00:29:54
Speaker
lazy and I know we're wrapping up, but maybe this is a separate conversation, but I don't think anyone would choose, actively choose that. I think they end up like that because it just is too hard. Would choose what? Would choose to have poor hygiene.
00:30:11
Speaker
But a lot of people label themselves as lazy. And those types of labeling will also get in the way because it kind of keeps you from actually understanding what's happening. It's like fast food. It's kind of easy. Like, I'm lazy. I didn't do it. But it's like, no, but really, let's take a look. What does that mean? Yeah, totally. So anyway. There is a song by David Byrne in Express 2. Do you know that song, Lazy? Oh, I'm wicked and I'm lazy. Oh, don't you want to save me?
00:30:40
Speaker
It's a good song. It was popular for a minute. But the idea of being wicked and lazy is definitely brings to light the judgmental quality. Yeah, and I don't really buy into that, right? Maybe it's because of...
00:30:56
Speaker
my background or education, but I think that we as a society need to just sort of like move past that idea. Yep. No tears are falling from my eyes. I'm keeping all the pain inside.
00:31:12
Speaker
Okay, but do you want to thank people for listening? I know we have to wrap up. I want people to listen to that song because the lyrics are so sort of elucidating. Maybe we can link to it. We should do a lyrics one, yeah. Yeah, if you liked this conversation, please, I guess, give us a rating and a review. We would really appreciate and love that.
00:31:35
Speaker
That would be fantastic. And after listening to this podcast, you probably won't be able to accomplish all of your goals because it does require some sort of concerted effort. But we hope that some of the things have been helpful that we've talked about today. Yeah, good. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Remember, the Doorknob Comments podcast is not medical advice. If you may be in need of professional assistance, please seek consultation without delay.