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Spring Romance
87 Plays9 months ago
Tune in to the latest episode of the Doorknob Comments podcast, where hosts Fara and Grant take a candid dive into the intricate world of love and dating, perfectly timed for the approaching Valentine's Day. From dissecting the dynamics of romantic relationships to scrutinizing the impact of social media on our perceptions of love, they leave no stone unturned. Drawing parallels from the relationships of celebrities like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce, they shed light on the societal pressures to find "the one."
But amidst the age-old topics, they bring a refreshing perspective, discussing the fascinating psychological concept of "doorknob comments" and advocating for personal growth and self-acceptance. With insights from therapists, they provide practical advice that listeners can implement in their own lives.
Join Fara and Grant as they navigate through the complexities of love and relationships, offering a blend of wisdom, humor, and relatability that is sure to resonate with audiences.
Key Takeaways
- Societal norms often create unrealistic relationship expectations.
- Establishing personal boundaries is essential in the face of external pressures.
- Social media tends to portray idealized relationships, distorting individual expectations.
- Understanding empirical findings on relationships can provide valuable insights.
- Celebrity relationship narratives may inadvertently influence personal relationship views.
- Effective communication, trust, respect, and mutual growth are cornerstones of healthy relationships.
- The phenomenon of "doorknob comments" highlights the challenge of expressing deep emotions and the stigma attached to singlehood.
In This Episode:
- [00:00:00] Understanding our needs
- [00:01:11] Romance and dating
- [00:02:21] Occupational hazards of therapy
- [00:04:07] Impact of social media on relationships
- [00:20:37] Core features of romantic relationships
- [00:22:46] Responsive Dating
- [00:24:02] Love Bombing and Authenticity
- [00:27:36] Pacing and Mutual Needs
- [00:35:10] Communication and Relationship Dynamics
- [00:37:18] Openness and Growth
Resources and Links
Doorknob Comments
Dr. Fara White
Dr. Grant Brenner
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Origin
00:00:00
Speaker
Understanding okay one what are our needs and to how best do we get them. Yeah we should be able to cover that the next twenty to thirty minutes.
Understanding Doorknob Comments
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello i'm dr fair white and i'm dr grant brenner.
00:00:18
Speaker
We're psychiatrists and therapists in private practice in New York. We started this podcast in 2019 to draw attention to a phenomenon called the doorknob comment. Doorknob comments are important things we all say from time to time just as we're leaving the office, sometimes literally hand on the doorknob.
00:00:35
Speaker
Doorknob comments happen not only during therapy, but also in everyday life. The point is that sometimes we aren't sure how to express the deeply meaningful things we're feeling, thinking, and experiencing.
Valentine's Day and Themes of Love
00:00:46
Speaker
Maybe we're afraid to bring certain things out into the open or are on the fence about wanting to discuss them. Sometimes we know we've got something we're unsure about sharing and are keeping it to ourselves. And sometimes we surprise ourselves by what comes out.
00:01:02
Speaker
Hi, thanks for tuning in today to doorknob comments. I'm Farrah White here with my co-host Grant Brenner. Hi Grant. Hey, hi Farrah.
Spring, Dating Dynamics, and Cultural References
00:01:11
Speaker
I know this won't come out until later, but we are recording on Valentine's day. So we have sort of romance and dating and love sort of on the mind today. So I thought we could talk about that.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah. And if my memory serves me, we also were talking about how spring is coming up. And that's a time where, you know, the flowers bloom and people start kind of coming out of the winter cocoon. Not the dating doesn't stop, but the weather gets warmer. People start showing themselves off. They start to think about getting in shape sometimes. All kinds of stuff. I'm sure some of our listeners are familiar with what happens in springtime.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. But what was the quote that you liked? I think it was a quote you liked. Oh, yeah, that Robin Williams said, spring is nature's way of saying, let's party. Yeah, I hadn't I hadn't heard that quote. I mean, I have bad allergies, but I do like to look at the flowers.
00:02:14
Speaker
I kind of want to do a Robin Williams impression. I don't quite have it right now. I'll think about it though. Okay. But the other things that are going on, I guess kind of in the world, in the news, just relationship wise, got me thinking about how we think about relationships.
00:02:36
Speaker
as therapists and some of the sort of occupational hazards of doing this work and I thought we could talk about it because it may be helpful for people to make use of it as let's say they are trying to get out there.
Social Media's Impact on Relationships
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah. Getting ready. Like Valentine's day is sort of like a Superbowl Sunday recently, which I know we're going to talk about in a minute. You're going to fill me in on the, uh, the events of the day since I'm not a big, a big Superbowl fan. And I, so I understand there's some romantic drama at the Superbowl with Taylor Swift. And what, what is her football player boyfriend's name? Travis Kelsey. Travis Kelsey. Yeah. And there was, you know, a whole, I think probably millions of people.
00:03:20
Speaker
thinking about her whereabouts. So we'll get to that. We'll get to that in due time. I saw the meme of him yelling at that coach, which was immediately co-opted by, I think, lots of different professions. But I saw therapists were using that quote to make funny therapist things. Like, you need to pay more attention to your unconscious life.
00:03:44
Speaker
You know, something like that. So we'll talk about that. But you know, Valentine's Day kind of kicks off this season of romance. It is fun for a lot of people and it bugs a lot of people out. And so I think by the time this comes out, hopefully the weather has been actually pretty nice anyway.
Societal Views on Relationships
00:04:02
Speaker
Thank you, climate change. But by the time it comes out, people will be starting to think about spring. And I hope we can talk about romance. And as is often the case, share some of the recent research on romance that I tend to look at on my blog.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I but I do think it's actually important to talk about a little bit like how therapists think about this and what we see because there's a little bit of I think pressure or pull from patients to one, let us know how bad it is out there.
00:04:40
Speaker
how bad it is like in the dating world. Yeah, in the dating world on the apps and you know, the apps sound like a nightmare. Right. But, but also it's a numbers game, numbers game for sure. But also I think a pull for us to like advise on it, which was the whole point I thought.
00:05:03
Speaker
That's the whole point of coming here. That's why- We want to help, but this is, of course, is not medical advice, but we may have something to add. What I thought of also is that there's a lot of stigma as well. If you're not partnered or if you're not, at least according to some idealized notion, which is often amplified on social media, if you're not in the picture perfect relationship, gee, maybe there's something wrong.
00:05:28
Speaker
At the same time, there's a very strong counter reaction that like singlehood is like a good thing. And like marrying yourself is an example of that. People who are like, they stake their claim, like I am going to be single and I'm going to live that full life.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah, but I think in the spirit of what we try to do, which is to help people be their healthiest, happiest selves, that can mean either one of those things, right? Depending on what stage of life, what other goals, what else is happening, when to prioritize and deprioritize certain things is an important part of building a well-balanced life, I think.
00:06:13
Speaker
a well-balanced life, and also recognizing that as much as we might like kind of a simple answer, okay, I'm going to find the one, okay, that doesn't work. I'm going to be single and happy. Well, that works for some people, but it takes work. A lot of times, there's a growth and learning process, and that's a little bit tougher, especially if we have unrealistic expectations, again, that may be driven by social media.
00:06:42
Speaker
Also, in terms of the sort of the life well-lived, what it takes to flourish. Flourishing is one of those concepts. And relationships are part of flourishing, but not the be all, end all, not the only factor.
Therapeutic Advice on Relationships
00:06:54
Speaker
Right. And I think that one thing that's really negative about social media is that it
00:07:01
Speaker
Of course, people can show the highlights and how they're happy, whatever, whether they're partnered or single. But it also, I think, gives this idea that, oh, well, if you're single and you're your own best friend, you're never lonely. And if you're partnered, you're never lonely or sad. But those feelings, right, as you and I know, can follow people regardless of their relationship status. Right.
00:07:31
Speaker
Well, that's the kind of like how relationship isn't gonna fix a lot of problems, but it is an important need and there is an epidemic of loneliness.
00:07:39
Speaker
for sure, but how do we decide to help people strengthen, one, a romantic relationship over a healthy friendship or, you know, do we want to put our energy into connecting with colleagues that we see every day, right? So maybe just understanding, okay, one, what are our needs and two, how best do we get them met?
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah, we should be able to cover that in the next 20 or 30 minutes. It's important because I think it, I think the fixation becomes on finding a person. Yeah.
00:08:29
Speaker
And that is one of the things, it's really hard. I know I talk to you about how sometimes I feel like a bit callous around these things, because I'm like, all right, we spend a lot of your sessions talking about the guy, right? But it's not really about the guy.
00:08:50
Speaker
Well, I think you talked also about something like, and I can relate to this as a therapist, right? We are, to a certain extent, obligated to maintain some objectivity or impartiality, moral relative, not relativity, notwithstanding. There's a clinical approach, so we hear people talk about their lives, and it's our role, it's our responsibility to maintain enough distance. That's why therapists aren't just friends.
00:09:18
Speaker
And so we really want to foster reflectiveness and thoughtfulness in kind of working things out. But to your earlier point, the idea that finding the right person will fix me is problematic.
Exploring Dysfunctional Relationships and Defense Mechanisms
00:09:32
Speaker
And I know you know that I've co-authored a number of books on this very subject.
00:09:36
Speaker
The first one is called irrelationship, how we use dysfunctional relationships to hide from intimacy. And the idea there is that there may be some early adversity or trauma where as a child we needed to try really hard to keep our caregivers in their best possible functional state.
00:09:53
Speaker
They were depressed or had alcohol use disorder or something like that. So the kid's job was to kind of shore up their caregiver. And then we are left with less of a capacity to pay attention to our own needs. We tend to put aside our own needs to take care of others.
00:10:12
Speaker
And then that leaves us with a feeling of avoid or a chronic feeling of loneliness because our parents were maybe never there for us in the way we needed them to be present and then later on in life people go searching for the other person to fill this void.
00:10:28
Speaker
And there's some work to do personally to find what you referred to as balance, because the flip side doesn't always work either, just completely being self-sufficient and trying not to need anyone else. It is learning a give and take. Right. And that would be a different kind of reaction, what analytic theory would call like a reaction formation, maybe, would you say?
00:10:50
Speaker
If you want to explain what that defense is, feel free to describe what a reaction it is. If you're opening the door. No, no, no. I don't want to open the door and completely get bogged down in it, but I just think that people can either repeat the thoughts and feelings and patterns of their childhood or sometimes
00:11:15
Speaker
Um, we react very strongly against a feeling. So then we sort of become counter dependent or, and a reaction formation can look a lot of different ways, but it's basically feeling one thing and doing another. Yeah. There, there are two things maybe of interest and I'm, I'm, I'm channeling one of my supervisors from, from residency. He, he, he sounded like Reagan to me. He was, he was an older gentleman and he, he would say, well,
00:11:45
Speaker
A fella named Sigmund
Celebrity Relationships and Public Interest
00:11:47
Speaker
Freud once said, and then his wisdom would follow, reaction formation number one is something we're not conscious of. And number two, we do the opposite of the thing that we're trying to avoid, but we don't know it. So someone who feels scared of dependency, as you said, will try to be completely self-sufficient, but they're not like, oh, I know that I'm trying to be self-sufficient because I've been burned.
00:12:11
Speaker
they're like the right thing to do is to be self-sufficient and maybe they get into stoicism or something.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, but I think it's important to say, so those are like two opposite ends of the spectrum, and then there are all of these things in between, right? And it's not a matter of anything being right or wrong, but just trying, our job is to help people bring this into their awareness and let it inform some of their dating decisions. Yeah, so we'll get to that. So what happened at the Super Bowl?
00:12:46
Speaker
Nothing. I just was feeling like, okay, everyone who's watching, right, has watching this relationship unfold or feeling some sort of an investment. So sorry, you kind of dumb it down for me. This is Taylor Swift. Yes. She has a huge fan base. She did the halftime show, right? No.
00:13:10
Speaker
She didn't, not this year at least. No, she was just there to cheer on her boyfriend. So what I was saying is like you and I watch relationships unfold in session every day. And now I feel like America was very invested in watching this relationship and really hoping it works out. And I know that we are very frequently rooting for our patients and that we have a certain feeling like, Oh, I don't like this guy. He's not right.
00:13:39
Speaker
Okay, slow down, slow down. So all I know is that I don't know what happened, number one. Number two, there was a meme circulating of him yelling at a coach. Not related, not related. Number three though, I saw people joking on X on Twitter that now Taylor Swift is going to have second thoughts about dating him because of his temper. And then other people were saying something like,
00:14:05
Speaker
Gee, football players get head injuries. Maybe that's part of why he's having trouble. I don't know if he is having trouble, but that was the ill, not very reflected comment. Did something happen? You're just saying that people are like,
00:14:23
Speaker
watching their romance. Yes. And that there's a lot of scrutiny. There are a lot of feelings one way or the other. And I guess I can identify with that. Because as a therapist and as seeing people's relationships unfold every day,
00:14:42
Speaker
It brings up a lot in us, right? Okay. So I'm disappointed though. I thought something happened. Something will happen. I'm sure there's going to be drama. But no, she flew from Tokyo to Las Vegas, watched her boyfriend win a Super Bowl. I think it was pretty good. But I guess the reason that I was bringing it up is because
00:15:06
Speaker
i feel that you know it's it's really that we look at celebrity relationships and there is an interest in it but i am like seriously too maybe there is a tablet quality there's something called para social relationships like you feel like we have a connection that we don't have.
00:15:26
Speaker
Right. Well, I think that a lot of Swifties feel very connected, but I guess the reason that I was bringing it up is because
00:15:38
Speaker
I think we could, you know, our perspective on relationships unfolding, right? And of course, we know more intimate details than whatever is seen on the camera, but that it evokes something, right? In us as therapists, but we also have to maintain a distance, right? Because one, we're not in control of it.
00:16:03
Speaker
We have to be aware of our role and unless someone's like, why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? No, I'm just trying to track. So you're still sort of talking about what is it like to be a therapist.
00:16:18
Speaker
I'm talking about what is it like to watch these relationships from the outside? Well, our patients' relationships, but watching any relationship from the outside, what can we take from it that would be helpful as we go out and have our own relationships, right?
Core Components of Romantic Relationships
00:16:38
Speaker
Not you and I.
00:16:39
Speaker
It can be, it can be very misleading. So, you know, if, if we know someone well, whether you're a therapist or another form of confidant, then you kind of might know more of the details. If we watch Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, Taylor and Travis, is there like a mashup of their names? That's cute. Like gradually. I don't know. I mean, there might be. Okay.
00:17:03
Speaker
I'm sure there is one, but you would probably have to refer to TikTok to find it. All right, let me go check. But we don't really know what's going on. Like, they're in the fishbowl, they're in the spotlight. That's got to be tough. That's got to be tough for a relationship. I feel like, you know, how sports commentators comment on sports, like, we can comment on, that's got to be a tough one, you know. Tell her, I wonder how she felt when Travis was yelling at that coach. Was she embarrassed or on his side? I don't know. What do you think? What do you think, Farah? I don't know.
00:17:32
Speaker
Let's use our imaginations when Taylor Swift saw Travis shouting at that coach. What do you imagine was going through her mind? I have no idea. I have no idea. I think I would imagine that they're both
00:17:47
Speaker
high intensity people. And I don't want to get bogged down in that. I really want to talk about like, okay, so when we see these things from the outside, what does it tell us about how our own relationships can progress? Well, yeah, but I think part of that is kind of, it's almost like, you know, what a Rorschach test is, I know you do, but like, you know, like an ink blot and you project on it, that looks like my mom, that looks like my dad, that looks like my mom and my dad. Do you know the joke about that?
00:18:18
Speaker
Tell me the joke about that please. So I think a guy goes into a shrink's office and he's looking at all of these pictures, you know, the Rorschach inkblots and he thinks it's like people having sex. And then the other one is people having sex. And the doctor's like, well, you know, you're a little preoccupied and this is a problem. And then the guy says, well, you're the one showing me all the dirty pictures.
00:18:44
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So what is the moral of that joke? So it's that we see what our unconscious tells us to see, right? So we can become aware of our own biases too, and then maybe course correct.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, maybe, for sure. But I do, I think the, I mean, I don't know, do people still do that test? Well, people administer the Rorschach tests as psychologists are trained to do it. Yeah, sometimes it's part of psychological testing. I have therapist friends on Twitter who tweet about the Rorschach. Oh, really? Okay, cool. You know why they're showing pictures of me on stage in front of a crowd of people though.
00:19:30
Speaker
See? Very funny. You're telling us. Hey, hold on. I need a minute. The insights are coming too quickly today. I was really interested in, you know, I had read a paper, these researchers, they surveyed a whole bunch of people to find out, because to your point, like there's a lot of
00:19:52
Speaker
theories of how romance works and what leads to satisfaction. This was an interesting study because they wanted to talk to people and see if the theories match the reality. And so these researchers surveyed like 500 people and they gave them all these different
00:20:12
Speaker
you know tests rating scales and then they went through all of their answers and they distilled them down into the common themes that just came up over and over and over again across all these different people who are in relationships to find out what the core
00:20:28
Speaker
the core drivers of romantic relationships were. And of course, there's going to be sort of some variation from person to person and all that cultural differences. But what they found is that there were three big things that seem to be, at least as a starting point, general features of romantic relationship. And this is the order that they found them in. So 96.8% of participants
00:20:56
Speaker
reported positive responsiveness to needs was a core feature of romantic relationships. 71.5% said authentic connection was a key component of romantic relationship. And then sort of interestingly, 34.5%, though this was the only the third significant factor, about
00:21:23
Speaker
30%, a third of them said a sense of stability was a core part of it. And this research was cross-sectional, meaning that it was just a moment in time. They didn't look at any of how these factors might interact over time. But I was speculating that they may go in that order in a way. So the first thing as a foundation is positive responsiveness to needs. You need that as the building block of
00:21:50
Speaker
almost any relationship, but certainly romantic relationship and then authentic connection has to be sustained, which was reported by a lot of people and then a sense of stability.
00:22:01
Speaker
maybe isn't necessary for everyone, but there has to be enough of a sense of stability. And I would think that that kind of builds over time. So in this study, they looked at people from different age groups. I wonder if you looked at younger people or people earlier in relationships, if they would say a sense of stability was less important to them than for older people or who have been in relationships longer, where a sense of stability may become more important.
Challenges in Genuine Connections
00:22:27
Speaker
And that would be like for future studies, like the next research they do.
00:22:31
Speaker
and try to get a more granular view over time. What do you think about that? Positive responsiveness to needs, authentic connection, and a sense of stability. Does that relate to Taylor and Travis? I don't know how it relates to them. How long have they been together? I don't know. We don't need to talk about that anymore.
00:22:51
Speaker
I'm sorry that I brought it up now, but I think that positive responsiveness to needs, right? Like, if people, let's say, dated with an eye to that,
00:23:06
Speaker
rather than what comes up so often. And of course, no one's going to go on a date with someone that they're not attracted to or don't feel like they have anything in common with. But I think this is where the apps really get it wrong, is that there's not exactly a way to predict how responsive someone is going to be to another person's needs.
00:23:33
Speaker
from the house. Right. How considerate they are. And so I think we have to have some sort of a just foundation before we get wrapped up in attraction and excitement about someone, which is like, is this person able to give me what I want? There's a problem in the sense that early on people behave differently.
00:23:59
Speaker
dopamine system is activated more, the oxytocin system is activated more with bonding. And those hormone neuroendocrine factors, they tend to phase out over six to nine, 12 months. And so there's that honeymoon period. There's also like much more knowledge that there are people who are
00:24:24
Speaker
quote, unquote, narcissists who may engage in love bombing. So they're like ultra responsive to needs and people who are vulnerable, you know, may miss warning signs or they may see green flags where there's red flags. I think that's where the authenticity kind of comes in over a longer span of time, whether
00:24:46
Speaker
whether it pans out as being true. And one of the issues is if people do have trauma issues, they can form a trauma bond. That's sort of the buzzword right now. And it looks like the greatest relationship in the world and the one they've been waiting for, and it's going to sort of fix all their problems.
Relationship Dynamics and Personal Agency
00:25:08
Speaker
And so how do you tell the difference between sort of like a genuine responsiveness to needs and by the way, that should be mutual, right? It's like two way street and something which is not real.
00:25:26
Speaker
Well, I think love bombing looks different in the sense that it comes from the desire of the love bomber to provide a certain experience and it's something that's dreamt up out of their fantasy, right? Yeah, to their need for admiration or to dominate.
00:25:48
Speaker
But how does the audience in our irrelationship book, and there's one for couples called Relationship Sanity, we can talk about some of the tools if you want. But in that book, one person is the performer. In this case, the love bomber is the performer, and the audience is receiving this performance and not recognizing that it's inauthentic in some way.
00:26:09
Speaker
They feel like it's really about them being adored and therefore valued, maybe in the way they always wish they had been. And then inevitably what happens later on is they start to realize that it's not working for them and hopefully it's not dangerous, but sometimes can be. So do you have any thoughts? Have you worked with people? Anything you've noticed on?
00:26:32
Speaker
had a move wisely during that initial exciting phase. Because that's what's going to happen in the spring, right? Everyone's going to be like, oh my god, she's amazing. I've never met anyone like her. Right, right. There's 8 billion people on the planet. Well, I think that the one piece of advice in terms of
00:26:57
Speaker
the pace at which things progress doesn't necessarily need to be
00:27:04
Speaker
like one date a week or three dates a week or whatever, but really it has to be, I think, mutual, right? So if one person is ready to move things forward very, very quickly and wants to lock this in and the other person kind of feels pulled along, that to me would be the first sign that the needs are
00:27:34
Speaker
are not aligning. So like if I feel like my own sense of agency is diminished or if I'm moving forward kind of over my own objections or if I notice that I'm ignoring that inner voice that says you should take your time.
00:27:51
Speaker
Right, exactly. Because you don't feel confident that if you say no or, you know, mention that actually you have a card game that night and you're not, you know, I think people really want to
00:28:10
Speaker
be available to things like love and be open to things like that. But if we're afraid to speak up because we think it's just going to destroy the whole thing and that's what happens I think when there have been very few interactions and it's really early on in the relationship.
Communication and Attachment Styles
00:28:29
Speaker
It feels like
00:28:31
Speaker
even a double text, right? Which is, you know, to me, a pretty benign thing, but people think something like that can blow, blow it up, turn someone off. That's a double text. When you text someone and then you text them again. Like too needy. Yeah, I guess it's too needy, but it's like, also demanding or
00:28:55
Speaker
I guess, but I also think if someone is that skittish that they're put off by that, then it's better to, you know. Right. Take a step back at least. I mean, you hear this all the time. It's like, I don't know. Maybe they meant this, but maybe I'm just blowing it out of proportion. Maybe it's okay. Like people I think don't know how to interpret that asynchronous texting behavior. I think it's a bad idea to be texting about anything serious personally. I know that's
00:29:25
Speaker
easier said than done a lot of the times. But don't do that. Like actually, you know, talk to the person. For me, a lot of what you say makes sense. I think my advice is kind of like get to know the person before you form a permanent attachment to them.
00:29:41
Speaker
And if they're not able to get to know you and let you get to know them in the ripeness of time, then don't make a commitment if you don't know the person well enough. Obviously, we get to know each other and we grow together. If we form a good, stable relationship, that's a different story. But during the courtship phase,
00:30:05
Speaker
Right? Get to know the person. Know who you're forming the contract with. Get to know the person, right? And that also takes knowing yourself to be able to ask the right questions. I think people are generally very scared to ask deeper questions. Of the other person.
00:30:26
Speaker
of the other person because they think it's going to come off as, you know, too intense or aggressive. And I actually I guess I could really, but I know sometimes people are afraid of that. Oh, yeah. But there's also a movement to play hardball where you ask the hard questions up front. And if the other person isn't isn't isn't OK with that, then you got your answer and we're not wasting time. But why is it called playing hardball?
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's a baseball thing, not football. Yeah, it's just a baseball thing. But it's also, I think has like a bit of a negative connotation versus softball. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't think many people want to see themselves as like, Oh, I give people a hard time, like, Oh, if you want to date me, then you have to like, show up in this way. I think it's more, I just think, you know, we assign all of these terms, and some of them
00:31:25
Speaker
Can you tell us a lot about how people feel? Yeah, it's not a good position to come from. Playing hardball maybe is not a good position to come from, you know, like who hurt you is a common joke. The extreme would be like being a doormat. Yeah. And you're saying, well, like if you say, hey, I can't make it Friday and the person gets mad and says like, you don't care about me, like, you know, that's like probably not a good sign.
00:31:56
Speaker
Something's going on there. And then if you try to explore it with them and they won't, then it's kind of like, good luck. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully we're not already attached to that person because I think that the attachment system, right? And some people can get attached very easily. I know, I think for everyone having a sense of how their attachment system works is important. I'll say that.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah, you have to know your own operating system, whether you're secure or insecure, kind of what your vulnerabilities are. The thing is you can't learn those things sometimes without actually, you know, going through difficulties in the real world, though things like self-help books and therapy can help you kind of learn the lay of the land as well.
00:32:42
Speaker
But sometimes experience is the best teacher. Right. Experience. But I also think that sometimes people don't reflect on that experience. They think, well, why does this always happen to me? Or I'm the common denominator here rather than. That's weird. I actually agree with you. Yeah.
00:33:02
Speaker
I think that's right. I think sometimes people don't make use of the information they do have because we're not in the habit of being as reflective as maybe would serve us. Or they make use of it in this demoralized way, which is... Or it's cookie cutter. What's the demoralized way? I'm defective in some way because look at all these things that are happening around me rather than
00:33:27
Speaker
seeing themselves as powerful and able to, you know, create a different dynamic or create repeat the same dynamic. So I think that's like the job of a good therapist is to, to show people in a non shaming way, oh, you actually have more control over this than you think.
Effective Communication Techniques
00:33:47
Speaker
Yeah. You know, shame is a normal emotion and that might be another topic for another time. I think our culture is kind of very anti-shame and I'm totally on board with that. It's not good to shame people, but if people feel a sense of shame, I think to your point about self-reflection, it is important to.
00:34:03
Speaker
interrogate the feeling of shame and also understand that shame is important for social learning. But I think if you, for example, if you know that your sense of self is on the negative side, if you're insecure, if you're vulnerable in certain ways, then it's important to keep that in mind, especially when meeting new romantic partners where the stakes can be very high. And as you said, where people can form almost instantaneous
00:34:32
Speaker
very strong bonds, often based in childhood adversity. That's the trauma bond concept. I think it's very important to be able to have mutual conversations that are mutually respectful. I agree. I agree. And to be able to share with people, I don't think saying, hey, I really value good communication and what does good communication look like to you? Because that's
00:35:00
Speaker
I think one of the main building blocks of a relationship and I do see where things like that's just something that has gotten so complicated. Communication. Yeah. I feel like it's easier than people make it out to be. I feel like part of it is all the noise in
00:35:18
Speaker
in on social media in in our in in our books, you know, and there's there's something called nonviolent communication. People can look that up. What I'm familiar with is a technique we we develop for use with couples called the 40 20 40. And so when you need to have a conversation, that's important.
00:35:37
Speaker
then literally, okay, first we say use a timer and each person gets three minutes to speak. Could be five minutes, could be three minutes, but each person gets exactly the same amount of time. And the concept of the 40-20-40 is that I get 40% of the airtime, you get 40% of the airtime,
00:35:56
Speaker
And the relationship gets that 20% give or take in the middle. So the relationship is almost thought of as like a child of the two people, and they have to tend to the relationship. And so the 40-20-40 sets that external framework that we're going to give room in the middle for that. And the idea is unlike which is often the case in communication, people are listening in order to make their case when it's their turn to speak, to defend themselves or attack.
00:36:25
Speaker
We want people to be compassionate to oneself and other and listen to understand and speak from the heart rather than basically litigating it. So, so many communications in romantic relationships become sort of who's right. Or in our last podcast with Ed Shapiro, he said when he listens and he's an organizational consultant, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, he said rather than listening to think about how he's right, when he listens, he's trained himself to think how is the other person right?
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. It's really hard because if, you know, if I'm defending my ego, then the last thing I want to think is how am I wrong or how is the other person right? But the attitude is what can I learn? How can we learn together? How can we grow together rather than having relationship be like, um, like a competitive sport, like two teams, like vying for who skits to score.
Balancing Openness and Self-Protection
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, I know. I think it's a good idea to be able to see things from multiple perspectives, if only as like a growth exercise. You know, we may see it, see how the other person is right and say, well, that doesn't work for us, right? But then we've still grown in some way.
00:37:38
Speaker
I think that's true. You know, the other thing is what is the other person's motive, right? Like the other person may be saying they're interested in a committed or serious relationship, but maybe they're looking for something else and sort of, how do you know?
00:37:52
Speaker
And how are you open enough so that you can enjoy dating? And I'm thinking about, I'm summarizing as we're wrapping up, how can people feel safe enough to be open and be able to possibly get into relationships, even if they've been kind of burned before, without being so self-protective that it ends up just cutting off possibilities? Right.
00:38:16
Speaker
Well, that's a very good question.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:38:19
Speaker
I think we can hopefully come back to that and, you know, expound upon it in future episodes. But I know we sort of have to wrap for today. Any pearls of wisdom though? I don't know. I mean, what would... Into spring? Let's party? Yeah, let's party, I guess, is...
00:38:37
Speaker
is the doorknob comment of the day. And what does that really mean for people is the question. Very good. Thank you for listening. And we would love if you could rate and review us and you can follow us on Instagram. Anything else?
00:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, we're on Instagram at doorknob comment or comments. And please definitely leave a review, reach out to us. It would be great to hear from you and share it if you think it's helpful. And actually, if you didn't think it was helpful, also still share it. Just click that arrow to share it. Good chatting.
00:39:16
Speaker
Remember, the Doorknob Comments podcast is not medical advice. If you may be in need of professional assistance, please seek consultation without delay.