Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Benefit of a Structured Change Management Approach with Anna Lundmark
160 Plays1 year ago
Anna Lundmark is the Director and Principal Consultant at StellaNord Consulting. She is a Certified Site Contamination Specialist under the CEnvP scheme, with 20 years’ experience in contaminated land.
Prior to starting her own business, she was the Manager for Science and Innovation at Hunter Water, Regional Program Manager for Contaminated Land at Hunter JO, and Principal Environmental Consultant at AECOM.
In this episode, Anna discusses the benefit she's seen first hand in adopting a structured approach to change management, through her training in the PROSCI Change Management course.
Anna also shares the Contaminated Land resources on the Hunter Joint Organisation website which are available for free to any council at www.hunterjo.com.au/projects/regional-contaminated-land-program
Thanks so much for listening!
Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast, and stay tuned for the next episode of Contamination Station: Safer Environment Together.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Contamination Station, safer environment together, a New South Wales EPA funded podcast. In these episodes, you'll hear from those working to implement contaminated land policies and procedures at the local level. By sharing our stories, frustrations, wins and losses, our aim is for this podcast to become a repository of information that will support those currently working to combat contaminated land and for those yet to come.
00:00:31
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this episode of Contamination Station, an EPA-funded podcast proudly launched as an initiative of the CRCB program. I'm your host, Chanel Gleason Willy, and today our guest is Anna Lummak, Director and Principal Consultant of Selenord Consulting. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and the guest as individuals, and do not necessarily reflect those of the New South Wales EPA or any other organisation.
Anna Lummak's Background
00:01:00
Speaker
In this episode, we're going to be talking to Anna, the director and principal of Stellanord Consulting, about lots of things to do with contamination. Stellanord is a consultancy focused on environmental services, in particular in the areas of contaminated sites, emerging contaminants, climate change, sustainability and resilience. Anna is a certified site contamination specialist under the CNVP scheme with 20 years of contaminated land experience.
00:01:28
Speaker
Anna spends the majority of her time at the moment working on the Contaminated Land Regional Capacity Building Program funded by the New South Wales EPA for councils across the Hunter Region, Central Tablelands and Northern Rivers in New South Wales. Hi Anna, it is lovely to have you with us today. Ah thanks for having me Shannon. And thank you so much for your time. That's alright.
00:01:49
Speaker
So prior to your current role with the CRCB, you were the manager for science and innovation, Hunter Water, where your team was responsible for the development and coordination of the R&D and innovation strategies and programs, and for the provision of scientific expertise in the areas of water, wastewater, recycled water, and biosolids.
00:02:10
Speaker
You've also worked as the regional program manager for contaminated land at Hunter Joint Organization of Councils to provide training and in-house support and to prepare a model contaminated land policy and procedures. And before that, you were a principal environmental scientist with ACOM where you undertook contaminated land assessments and assisted in contaminated land audits. Now that is a huge history Anna.
Career Highlights and Change Management
00:02:35
Speaker
Can you tell me a bit about yourself and some of the highlights you've enjoyed in your career across these different areas? Yeah, sure. That's a really nice summary. I think you pretty much told my life story then, but I feel really fortunate to have worked across a range of industries.
00:02:51
Speaker
It's helped me a lot and I feel especially fortunate that I started with that technical environment at ACOM, just learning the ins and outs of the contaminated land process, picking the brains of some of the gurus in the industry. And then I guess after I don't know, nerding out on science and legislation behind all of this for a good couple of decades.
00:03:14
Speaker
Now I've started to focus more and more on the people side of change that we're trying to make through programs such as the CRCB program. And that's brought me onto a change management path. So how do we bring people along on the journey and how do we make those changes stick?
00:03:32
Speaker
And I think in particular, after my roles with ACOM, I worked with programs that aimed for change across a whole region, like the CSABIC program, or across an organization like Hump to Water. And I think anyone working on tasks like those kind of instinctively start to apply some of those change management principles. And that's certainly what I did at that time.
00:03:58
Speaker
And then one day i was introduced to a structured change management methodology and approach and that was when i was with hunter water and it was just. Such a relief for my i guess scientific mind to find that structured approach based on research.
00:04:13
Speaker
That's telling me how I can best support people when transitioning from that I guess current state to the vision of the future state that we want. Because I guess to make the change successful as a whole each of the individuals involved have to adopt the change and each stakeholder has a specific role in making that happen.
00:04:36
Speaker
I think as a technical contaminated land exporter project manager, it can be really easy to miss the complexities in that people's side of change. So a typical example would be that we would prepare a technical document, like a guideline maybe.
00:04:51
Speaker
And then we will provide a bit of training as a way to embed it. So with the change management approach, you sort of see, take a step back and really see that big picture of it and make sure that you're aiming for a bit more success through that structured approach. So I guess I've clearly become quite passionate about this. So as a trait for myself, when I started my business about two years ago, I used my first paycheck to sign up for the ProSight change management course to become a certified change practitioner.
00:05:21
Speaker
So I'm sure there are a lot of great change management methodologies out there, but if you're interested, you could look up the ProSci one to see what it's all about. So it's P-R-O-S-C-I. It's like two words put together, professional and science, which obviously is another reason it speaks to me as a scientist.
00:05:40
Speaker
The change management, I think it's a fairly new field, isn't it? I certainly haven't heard very much about it. I think you is actually where I've heard the majority about structured change management. So hopefully this isn't putting too much on the spot, but what are the the cornerstones to a structured change management approach?
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah. So it's, I mean, as with everything, it's got lots of templates. So I think in a sense, it's not rocket science, but it's just putting all the templates together so that you can do things in a logical sequence of things. So for example, when you're looking at implementing your methodologies, say that it might be training package, awareness, engagement, all those things that you sort of instinctively would do, it's looking at ways where you sequence them in the right way. So you bring the people along because
00:06:28
Speaker
It's got research behind what sequencing you need to do. One of the things that's really important in change management is mapping all the stakeholders that are involved and their individual roles in it so that you can see that you have the right people at the right places giving the right messaging. And you could see one thing, for example, that's come through time and time again in the research that's done behind this is that active and visible executive sponsorship
00:06:57
Speaker
is identified as the greatest overall contributor to change success. And when you think about that, it actually has a lot of implications because it's not just about having an engaged sponsor, executive sponsor, but it's also about having an executive sponsor that is in the right place. So for example, they need to be able to make the right decision and get the right decisions through the right channels to make sure that you get, I guess, the easy way to embed the change.
00:07:26
Speaker
Thank you for that. That's something that I'll definitely go and have a look at. It sounds really interesting and so topical for what we've just been through with the CRCB program. We spent so many years trying to create this change on a region-wide scale, which was interesting. And we had so many successes and failures along the way. So definitely something which probably would have been of benefit to all of the CRCB offices.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, and I think instinctively would do a lot of it anyway. It's just an easier and more structured approach to it.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I guess I relate it to when I had my first child, we got the Save Our Sleep book as I think a lot of parents do. And it's the same concept in that, yes, you'd probably do similar things anyway, but the book gave you a routine to fall back on. And it was written there in black and white so that when you're highly sleep deprived, you can go to the book and go, oh, what am I supposed to be doing now? Or am I supposed to be letting, you know, putting the baby down now or letting him cry for a bit longer or not? And it just provided
00:08:28
Speaker
certainty. And maybe it's, again, maybe it's to do with my scientific brain as well that that really helped me. Yeah, for sure. When you can put it into like, spreadsheets and tables and templates, it's so much, but another big thing about it is you're supported by research. So yes.
00:08:44
Speaker
When you're trying to make a change and you are estimating how long it would take and what resources you need, you can actually be backed up by research just rather than sounding like you are asking for too much or just being another one of those resource discussions kind of thing. Yeah, it's confidence. It provides that confidence as well to really say, no, this is how long it's going to take. This is what you actually need to do.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah.
Challenges in Local Government
00:09:08
Speaker
So coming back to I guess CLM or contaminated land management, what do you think are the biggest obstacles for local government when dealing with taking on that role of managing contaminated lands at the local level?
00:09:22
Speaker
So through the CFCB programme, we work with the regional councils specifically, and those councils are usually extremely resource and time poor. I think after working with councils, I certainly feel very privileged to spend my days focusing on one topic, not being so scattered across a big range of things.
00:09:42
Speaker
So I think it is a very daunting task. So I have so many different roles in contaminated land. I mean, there are councils as, I guess, the regulator through the land use planning process, there's council as a land owner or manager, and there's council as a compliant officers, and there's so many complex regulatory frameworks that apply and they often overlap. I mean, we work with the POE, the CLM Act and the APNA Act, which are all having associated regulations and guidance.
00:10:11
Speaker
And then we bring in the technical complexities of a contaminated land investigation and report. And this is for someone who has contaminated land as a minute part of their role. And that is so much to get across when you do consider that it is just one small part of their role. And not only to get across, but also to stay abreast of the changes that are happening, the nuance of the industry. It is an industry that I find
00:10:40
Speaker
There's a lot of nuance that goes into how we do the assessments and what sort of discussions are going on at that point in time and how we're interpreting different things from the legislation does change. So that would be difficult. Given your extensive experience across so many different facets of contaminated land management, what would you like to see done to overcome some of the obstacles that council faces?
00:11:06
Speaker
Well, I guess the resources and capacity building is highlighted over and over again as areas of needs for councils. And I think that models like the CRCB programmes are great as supporting councils. We provide that ongoing capacity building. We prepare resources to avoid duplication in effort. We promote networking and knowledge sharing and consistency where it's appropriate, because sometimes the NGAs, of course, will vary and need to have slightly different approaches.
00:11:36
Speaker
Another thing we do is raise awareness around other avenues like using auditors or certified consultants where appropriate and link councils up with experts across the various areas. So we're kind of proofing it a bit for the future by creating those networks as well.
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess in a way, because the CRCB program is run for a discrete amount of time, we're also not a burden to counsel, not saying employees are necessarily burdens, but we are there for a relatively short period of time to provide those boosts of
00:12:08
Speaker
I guess, capacity building and information and try and get them to go a leap forward rather than just baby steps at a time. And then there might be a break and then we'll come back to do it again with new stuff because there is quite a bit of stuff turnover in councils as we know. Yeah. And I think regional councils do experience quite a bit of it at the moment. Definitely. So what were some of the wins that you saw during your time in this CRCB role?
00:12:36
Speaker
I think the engagement we have in our network of council, like the discussion is always brilliant in our meetings and I feel like over time it really has evolved and now we're sometimes tackling some of those really hard questions. There's a momentum now that has developed through this program and
00:12:52
Speaker
I would really like to see that keep into the future for all of our councils. I guess the knowledge sharing and raising the hard question that we need to work on as a state rather than each individual council. So, I mean, as you know, Chanel, the CSCB group and the New South Wales EPA are working on a future model like the post CSCB program as we know it. So to be continued.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. What have you learned about the planning process through CLM projects at the local government level?
Complexity and Perception in Planning
00:13:24
Speaker
I don't know about you. I'm assuming they're the same as me, but you probably, as ID, got thrown right into the planning process and got to learn a lot, looking at it from the council's perspective. Neither of us have ever actually worked for council before. That's right. For me, there was a lot to learn.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yep, steep learning curve for me too, so I'm not a planner, like you say, as a background. I guess it's been great. Councils are very lovely and helpful and share their knowledge. I guess I learn every day, and probably for you too, it's about picking up the legislation and read through it and then see how it's actually practiced within the councils, how it's implemented practically.
00:14:08
Speaker
One of the big learnings is that contaminated land is one of so many things considered in the planning process. And it's often seen as a barrier to development. So that's the cultural thing, I think, within some councils that contaminated land is just one of those blocks, I guess. So I think it's important for us how we frame it, that it's a way to protect our community from inappropriate land use and that it really could cause a risk of harm to human health and the environment if not done right.
00:14:35
Speaker
So I guess with more information upfront in that planning process, we will ultimately save time and effort later and sort of I guess showing that getting it wrong can be very riskful and very painful.
00:14:48
Speaker
I guess the expense always comes into it. I think that's where a lot of people often balk is when you start talking about contaminated land at any level, whether it is just minorly contaminated right up to significantly. It's the cost factor that people really balk at because it's such an unknown when you first start down that track. Yeah, certainly. Do you have any great case studies that you're able to share with us about your time with the CRCB?
00:15:17
Speaker
Maybe not case studies as much. I think one thing that in my experience, I don't know if it's the same traditional, but one of the hardest parts to work with has been the contaminated land registers or contaminated land information systems.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I think when we have those discussions with councils, you come to a few blocks that are usually around, definitely around resourcing, but even with resourcing to set up a system in the first place. Do you notify landowners when their land have been included on a contaminated land register, even if it's potentially contaminating?
00:15:53
Speaker
or contaminated based on the language history, for example. So I think those more sort of communication and I guess the people side of those registers are really difficult to get across the line. Is that your experience as well? Yeah, so my experience was definitely there was a lot of uncertainty from all different levels in Councillors to what were their actual requirements now that we have this register.
00:16:21
Speaker
What are they required to do what are they not required to do and definitely in terms of notification but then at the same time it was okay but if we do notify then. What's training or information we then going to follow that up with because that could be scary for a lot of land owners to suddenly get told about this if they had no idea.
00:16:41
Speaker
So there was definitely a lot of uncertainty and we did source legal advice as you did on that for councils, which gave them a lot more confidence to go forward with this process. And another aspect that we really struggled with, and we're still struggling with now actually,
00:17:00
Speaker
is the shared agreement with the resourcing for maintaining the register. We have five different councils and one of our councils is a lot bigger than the others. Where we are struggling at the moment is that the other councils do not have the resources to set up and then maintain this register.
00:17:20
Speaker
And something that we would really like to get in place is a shared services agreement so that the smaller councils pay a small fee to the larger council to actually maintain it, update it, and then put it up into spatial services with any updates on a regular basis so that it's a live platform that's actually going to be useful for people to use into the future.
00:17:45
Speaker
And unfortunately, we haven't quite got there with that as yet. That is still a hurdle for us to get over before, hopefully before the end of June. Yeah.
Future of CRCB Program and Collaboration
00:17:54
Speaker
Well, that sounds like a great model. And I think that's exactly where we are so well placed with this program is to look at resource models and look at models that go outside of each individual council on their own. So yeah, it would be great to see where that goes in the future.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, I'm hoping that it gets there because we have a great platform using not just a registered, but GIS mapping as well and some really great people in our councils who are across the GIS component of it and then tying it into the planning systems in council. So fingers crossed that we can get it there. But hopefully another iteration of CRCB will definitely allow that to happen. For sure.
00:18:38
Speaker
So this is, I guess, a question. Looking back at your time with CRCB, because Hunter JO has been a part of the program for a lot longer than a lot of the other councils. Has it now been, oh, is it eight years? I think Hunter JO joined in 2015 maybe. So about eight years now. And is there anything that you would have done differently in your time?
00:19:05
Speaker
So I've been working on the programme in a few different time periods. I think that it's not really anything I would have done differently because it started out, I guess, as individual officers working on their regions, learning about their issues.
00:19:24
Speaker
helping council set up those resources and supporting tools. And I think now in this later version that we're a part of national, it's much more about the collaboration between the region and we have done a lot more together, which makes sense because you couldn't have done that at the start when you don't know the issues from each of the regions. So I think it's evolved into
00:19:48
Speaker
something different and it probably will continue to do so into the future. But I think it's been appropriate for what it was at the time. Yeah. And I guess I always have found that the collaboration aspect of this
00:20:03
Speaker
Took me a while to get my head around because I guess of how everybody's working for JOs or with JOs, but sort of separate at the same time. And then we're all trying to work under our funding models in with each other in all the different regions. So whilst it is a little bit complex to get your head around at first, and I think that's probably why it took a little bit of time for our collaboration to really kick off. Once we got there and once we got to know each other really well,
00:20:30
Speaker
A couple of our program managers, including Peter Brennan, were great advocates for getting us all together face-to-face so that we could actually work on that collaboration aspect. I found that we progressed so much faster and we produced so much more in terms of resources and cross-pollination of ideas. That is where I see huge value in this program.
00:20:53
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think what you said about bringing us together and collaborating a lot more in the last couple of years. And another thing there is going back to that change management or saying that the executive sponsorship or the sponsorship is very important. And I think that we're now seeing the ideas that we have in the program.
00:21:14
Speaker
come to life because we have strong sponsorships through the EPA where they can actually make things happen and provide the basis for us to move forward with this. Definitely, our current EPA manager, she is phenomenal with her advocacy for us. That's definitely helped the program a lot.
00:21:35
Speaker
So there's been a lot of great learnings and wins from this program, which are somewhat intangible. But I know you also have an amazing bank of tangible resources. Would you like to tell us a bit more about that?
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, I guess a highlight for me have been the Hunter-JO resources. So you can Google Hunter-JO contaminated land and you will get to that website where we have resources available for free for any council, not just the Hunter region. And I guess our flagship is our resource package for council's role as regulator through the land use planning process, where we have this model policy that councils can adapt and adopt.
00:22:14
Speaker
with a range of supporting guides that cover each of the areas of the model policy. So I guess the model policy provides the why and the what and the guide then provides the how. And I guess the uptake of our resources have been really great both within the region and outside of the region. So that's been really wonderful to see.
00:22:34
Speaker
Definitely. I've really, really enjoyed having those resources, some of which were taken from Hunter J and others developed collaboratively with the CRCB program. That's right. Yeah. They've been like gold for, for our councils. I guess one of the things to highlight that's topical at the moment is that we are updating the register of contaminated land consent conditions. So those will be reissued, I guess, on the website in the next week or so.
00:23:04
Speaker
topical because at the moment councils are uploading all their consent conditions to their planning portal, which is I guess happening before the end of this month. So for anyone to use if they want to, you can go to HunterJL website for those.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, for some great resources and help with being able to tailor their consent conditions. Yeah, that's right. Thank you very much for being my guest today, Anna. It's been an absolute pleasure. So that wraps up this episode of Contamination Station. Thank you for listening.
00:23:37
Speaker
You've been listening to Contamination Station, Safer Environment Together, an EPA funded podcast hosted by Chanel Gleason Wiley. We hope you've enjoyed our chat and been inspired to continue working towards a safer environment together. We would love for you to stick around for the next episode. So keep those headphones on, grab another cuppa and settle in for more insightful stories.