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#211 Ram-ifications of a Carrow Road swan song
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So close yet so far for Norwich City! The OTB panel (bar Steve) are joined by the Pink Un's Connor Southwell to dissect and digest things other than press room pies.
Ryan Livermore, Zoe Morgan and Dan Brigham, along with Connor, talk a squad that may be ready made for a play-off push next year, a wonderful, unified reaction to a *checks notes* 9th place finish that would rival most promotion celebrations, and Kenny's place in our all-time City XI's.
Plus, Dan puts a Gunn to Connor's head to find out his end of season accolades, condemnations, most unusual moments but most of all, his distaste of Blyth services.
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Transcript
Introduction to OTB Norwich City Podcast
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome to OTB a Norwich City podcast, the NCFC show hopefully doing you proud right until the end. I'm Ryan Livermore and tonight we at OTB talk the bittersweet feeling of a Carrow Road campaign coming to a close as last week's double header was a case of so close yet so far for Norwich City.
00:00:35
Speaker
Regardless, the feel good factor is indicative of a turnaround few would have seen coming.
Season Finale Preview and Guest Segment
00:00:40
Speaker
We also look ahead to the season finale in Humberside next weekend and put one of our guests under scrutiny in a new version of Gun to the Head.
00:00:50
Speaker
NCFC Numbers, a.k.a. Steve Sanders, has been ruled out of tonight's show with his agent touting a move to the scrimmage. So once again, joining us on an emergency loan is the one man we would allow to have mini shin pads and low socks. It's Connor Southwell.
Connor Southwell's Emergency Loan and Player Stats
00:01:06
Speaker
Connor Southwell. That was a reference to a few months ago when you told us about your crippling allergies.
00:01:10
Speaker
Thank you very much for reminding me that and for having me on. i appreciate it. um I'm in for Steve, so i recognize there might be some statage. So I've got a a whole Norwich City book full of them next to me, just in case that's needed at any point. It's not an ad, but it's a very good book. the connect onion so So compiled by Roger Smith. So there you go. there's There's all the plugs done at the relevant stages, just in case we need at any point to delve into it throughout the evening.
00:01:35
Speaker
How up to date is the book though? Because if I ask you for stats on Saturday, you're just going to whack out ones from like 1973 or something. Well, I can, I can, so at the moment I've just whacked the book open. I can tell you the youngest debutant, which you all know is Chris Renton.
00:01:48
Speaker
I can tell you the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven Norwich players who scored own goals on debut. So all of them useful stats I'm armed and and ready to tell you about. while While we've got you, who are the seven players? I'm very curious
Notable Own Goals in Norwich City's History
00:02:02
Speaker
now. I will read it for you. Stan Ramsey in 1932. Oh, yes, Danny R. It's classic Stan. Then there was a long wait, actually, until 1975. And David Jones, then Tony Spearing. It was two in 1984. So Tony Spearing and Steve Bruce, both in 1832.
00:02:17
Speaker
Dean Ashton, Carlos Quellar, and Jonathan Tompkinson is apparently the most recent in 2022. So there you go Wow. Dean Ashton, his first goal for the club was an own goal. Amazing. they so, yeah?
00:02:32
Speaker
I love that. Who needs Steve? Steve? You need Steve when we've got Connor reading a book. Fantastic.
00:02:40
Speaker
Our next panellist is our resident birthday boy this week. So what better way to celebrate than with an inevitably meaningless fixture being deconstructed by us tonight? It's Dan Brigham. Hello, Dan. Happy birthday. hey Ryan. Thanks very much. Look what I've got just next to me.
00:02:59
Speaker
Oh. I've also got a nerdy Norris City book, Canary Citizens Centenary Edition, so that must be now 24 years old. And if you would care to open to a random page and just explain what you've seen.
00:03:13
Speaker
Random page. I've got a who's who. um And there's eight players on this page, I think. And I recognize one name from it, which is John Dehan, player, manager, legend.
00:03:28
Speaker
Nice. Nice. Now, ah hopefully our final panellist will be able to follow this with a book handy. ah But I'm going to intro her. Obviously, her is amazing. I'm going to intro her anyway. She wouldn't have been able to celebrate on Saturday, even if her nine-point prediction came true due to the devastating news about a certain Tony Gary Springer. It's Zoe Morgan. Zoe, I know you're caught up about Tony Gary, but what book have you found?
00:03:55
Speaker
Well, hello, Ryan. Hello, everyone. ah I wanted to join in. I've got Glorious Canaries, Past and Present, 1902 to 1994. So very in date um by Mike Davidge.
00:04:08
Speaker
let me Let me have a little... i think it says a lot that neither Zoe or I have to hand the book that we wrote together, the official history of the World City Football Club. Because it's not available anymore, Dan. That's why. It's not in circulation in the club shop. It's in circulation in this house, though. uh i've opened the i've opened the book we've got john gherkin uh first person on the page left half from 1922 to 23 born in county durham died in sunderland no g-u-r-k-i-n oh um i feel like you've just made names up now
00:04:49
Speaker
you I bet he was ah often getting Norwich City into a pickle, wasn't he? an angry ah It's funny because it's spelt wrong. This this entry ends with, them a lot of this book has got sort of, always ends with a bleak sentence about ah the person that it's writing about if they're they're no longer with us.
00:05:09
Speaker
This one ends with, a grandson in Leicester helped with the tracing of John's true birth. Like it's a like it's an, ne what's that program called on, about family trees? so Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are? Yes, it's like that. um But for more city players.
00:05:25
Speaker
Well, when we deconstruct the last week, hopefully you'll be able to tell us about traced births of the current squad as well. So I'll be coming to you for that, Zoe. I'm sure I know. Alrighty then, let's kick off with this week's hot topic.
00:05:46
Speaker
Something.
End of Top Six Hopes for Norwich City
00:05:50
Speaker
After weeks of teasing and playground flirting, Norwich City's top six dreams are finally mathematically over. Not that you would have been able to tell after the final whistle on Saturday, with a post-match reception to rival those with more tangible success gone by.
00:06:05
Speaker
A respectable four points against Derby and Swansea may not have been enough for the table, but it was more than enough for a club that has undergone a transformation for the ages.
00:06:17
Speaker
Zoe, I'll come to you first, please. If I'd have told you at 5pm on the 8th of November that Norwich's playoff chances would have ended at full time on their final home game, which is also their penultimate game of the season, what horrible names would you have called me?
00:06:32
Speaker
Well, obviously, I'd have been more likely to believe you than anybody else, ah because I'm that kind of gal. But ah ah yes, at that point... things did feel desperate. um I was just reflecting the other day about remembering some of the things that have happened over the season. And i remember Antti Cernat going off in tears when he and injured himself. And that was just a really like,
00:07:00
Speaker
sort of encapsulate some of the horrors that were going on during that time. um Just things kept going wrong and being bad. And it did feel like there would be no way out of it. And, um you know, having played Leicester in November when their fans were like, well, we are pretty bad. And we were like, well, you're not this bad. um And then the um and the run that we've been on, and especially in comparison to Leicester,
00:07:30
Speaker
it's It's unreal. And yeah, it's it's disappointing that our 0.07 chance of making it into the playoffs um sort of ended with us not getting a win on Saturday. But um you have to then detach yourself from that feeling and then think about what they have done.
00:07:49
Speaker
to get into this position in the first place. All of the numbers, and I'm sure Steve, and sure Connor now, he's a data expert, would agree. um All of the numbers pointed to us going down from that position.
00:08:03
Speaker
The fact that A, we haven't, and B, We have just kept going as well. I think it is super impressive. You've seen like a club like Sheffield United, who also had a really bad start to the season, not quite as bad as us, went on a really good run to get themselves out of it and then have sort of done nothing for a a few months. The fact that this team has pushed and pushed and pushed...
00:08:28
Speaker
Despite all the injuries, despite where they were, despite it all looking like, well, what do you do once you've you've kind of guaranteed safety? I think it was really summed up. um I was watching the Sky coverage on um last week on Tuesday night for the Derby game. the commentator on that game was absolutely blown away by how much Norwich were up for it. Like they, he he couldn't believe it, especially the first 15 minutes. He's like, well, basically, why are they trying so hard? um And that's what they've done. That's ah that's what they keep doing.
00:09:02
Speaker
You know, they've they've kept fighting. Yes, they've had bad halves of football. Yes, they've, you know, ah occasionally sort of slipped, but... they're In every game, really, that you know there's been very few games where you've thought they' at no point were they in that.
00:09:23
Speaker
It agrees. It agrees with me, obviously. ah So yeah, the fact that they've kept fighting, I think is so impressive. um And yeah, we, you know, we had the disappointment against Ipswich, but overall, really, you can only think about what's happened this season and think about it with a smile on your face because it's just so impressive.
Is Norwich City's Squad Playoff Ready?
00:09:44
Speaker
Well, the relentless nature of the turnaround has been immense, Connor, and there's been a lot of talk over recent weeks about where this squad is at. But fundamentally, including the Birmingham game, since Philippe Clement has been in charge of Norwich City... those fixtures alone mean they would have been in fourth place, two points off of the top spot. And even if results go against them on Sunday, the worst they can finish is eight points off of the playoffs. And so you then have a backlog of 15 games there where this side under him arguably would have picked up way more points than what they had at the start. So the question I'm going to pose to you is, is there an argument to be made that this squad as it is, is playoff ready?
00:10:27
Speaker
not Not quite for me. I think i think in some areas, definitely. i think there's ah there's a spine to that team that that is pretty encouraging. I think Vadim Kovacevic, I know there was a lot of question marks in the in the first half of the season, but I think the second one, he's he's been reliable. he's he's he's um I know there was one moment on Saturday where it felt like he kind of regressed back to where he was, but i think by and large, he's he's shown a lot more concentration. I think Centre-back-wise, Cordoba's really come on for for me and McConville and macconville land or Darling. I think Darling's been very good in the last three or four weeks quite quietly as well. I think that as ah as a centre-back group is with one addition is is probably there. Kellen Fisher right back, I think you would say. McLean and Mattson as a two, I think you would say. I'm probably looking at forward areas more more than anything in terms of strengthening. But but you're right. And I think... um
00:11:14
Speaker
i I know how these things work for kind of manager of the season. It's always kind of the guys who are at the top of the league and winning titles or, you know, called Frank Lampard because that's that's an easy one to go and push in their direction. But I'm really surprised that Philippe Clement wasn't at at least in that conversation for the for the job that he's done. Likewise, Tonda Rhett-Kartt, I think those are the two coaches who have made real impact walking into the ah club. And as well, I think conceptually what people externally don't realise is the fact that he's done this with a group of players that, as you say, youngest in the in the championship, but also hasn't had a left back for a lot of it. It's had one fit striker for a lot of it.
00:11:51
Speaker
It's been so, know, one winger basically in Ali Ahmed for the last few months. It's been so impressive how much he's been able to squeeze and eke out of this team and how much this this team and these group of players have eke and squeezed out of themselves because there's a lot of doubt about them. Some of them have been written off. I remember a lot of conversations in November, I'm sure not on this podcast, but definitely on others that I listened to, you know, it was talk about you just get a firefighter in and you're just playing a low block and you just defend and you just try and grind out results to stay up.
00:12:19
Speaker
And actually what he's done is is proven that they didn't really need that at all. They needed a coach that was capable and could kind of rebuild them step by step. And you look at what they've done away from home and how much they've improved defensively and actually how every facet and most individuals have improved since you've walked in the door. I think it is indicative of a team that yeah, is is showing something that is a bit more sustainable leading into to next season. So yeah, I'm with you. I don't think there's there's major surgery required, but I think it's is's probably now, and and this is the analogy I've used a lot at our end, so I'll impart it on you. i think so much of what Philippe Clement has done so far has been about raising the floor, raising standards, raising performances. And now this summer for me is about trying to push the ceiling, trying to add quality and and depth and real competition to the squad to make sure that next season in what feels like when you look at, you know the Premier League table and some of the teams that may well be down there, it feels certainly at this stage, like it may well be a tougher championship to to compete in.
00:13:16
Speaker
Absolutely. That's just made me think of raising the floor of Makama being so much taller and bigger than
Impact of Expanding Playoff Spots
00:13:21
Speaker
everyone else. that His head's already like sticking through the chimney at the top of the roof, that he's already breaking through while everyone else is slightly below him. Yeah. Well, speaking of raising those those kind of standards, Dad, and maintaining the level of performance, is there a risk, or I don't know if risk is the right word, but next season we know it's the top eight Norwich will be fighting for rather than top six.
00:13:44
Speaker
is Is that something that could play into Norwich's hands, or should they set their sights way higher than that, given what we've seen so far, Ed Clermont? I guess having eight opportunities to get promoted plays into everyone's hands in in that division, I suppose. So it does make life a little easier.
00:14:03
Speaker
um At this stage, I'm not sure we should really be talking about automatic promotion as as excellent as we've been. i mean, you mentioned there that we're fourth under Clemence from the table we' and we're joint top if you exclude that Birmingham City game. when he'd barely had any chance to, you know, work with the players as well. But I kind of think I'm with...
00:14:25
Speaker
I think it may ah where I am at with the squad is that under Manning, it massively underperformed and under Clement, it's overperforming, maybe not massively. i think this squad is probably a team that should maybe be where we are right now, as in, you know, a few points off the playoffs, had a bit of a run at it, but should have been sustained right from the start of the season, you know, more ups and downs rather than down, massive down and then a nice long up. Yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
But having said that, if you look at Coventry, you know, they have built a really good squad without any major stars in there, I'd say, but full of excellent players and depth in really important areas, especially central midfield and at number nine and wide areas.
00:15:12
Speaker
um So they've shown that they took a squad from last season when Lampard took over and sort of not necessarily rescued them, but pulled them up the league in a similar fashion to Clermont's done. And with a couple of sort of smart additions in the summer, turned what was already a good squad, like a really good squad into squad that has won the championship now and got promoted.
00:15:36
Speaker
So it doesn't take much in the summer. to turn what is, I think, probably right now ah an eighth, ninth position squad into one that properly motors. But then you've also got to factor in more luck with injuries as well. As Conor said there, we've barely had left back.
00:15:51
Speaker
Our wide areas have been probably decimated by injury throughout this to the extent where if Cianat is back and Diallo is back, It's kind of hard to know where we really need to strengthen. I mean, it seems everyone agrees that we do need more wide players in, but that also means there'll be a lot of depth there if players do come back from injury as well.
00:16:11
Speaker
um And the major advantage we have is it seems like we have one of the very best managers in the Championship and probably very lucky to have a manager of his calibre. think a lot of us certainly...
00:16:24
Speaker
ah not Maybe not the majority, but a lot of people thought we were lucky to get him to start with. Some were a bit sniffy because of not winning the SBL with Rangers and being sacked there, but but you know that can happen. um But when the I think he had talks with Ajax and sort of other you know big clubs around ah Europe as well.
Norwich City's Next Season Prospects
00:16:43
Speaker
I think we're very lucky to have a manager of his calibre and he can fine-tune what could be ah top six, top seven, top eight squad into one that might be able to sustain a promotion challenge. but I do think there needs to be sort of some very smart additions in the summer that aren't just there for depth, but come in for first team starts as well.
00:17:04
Speaker
Zoe, is there a risk, though, of this momentum being fully stopped? Because it it will inevitably halt in the summer, then the the players will come back after the World Cup break and and and the like. But is there a risk of wholesale changes kind of rendering any progress they've made so far moot? Or is that is that and something we shouldn't we be concerned with?
00:17:27
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, to follow on from Dan's point, I think um the the changes that we make have got to be smart. like i think and And I think volume of change is part of the smartness, I suppose. I think they...
00:17:44
Speaker
it would be good if we didn't have to sign loads of players because we sort of done that for a couple of years and it's, you know, we've just about learned to love most of the new ones and it took us a while because they were so bad to begin with. So think that familiarity is good for the link between the supporters and the team, like too much change can be unsettling. And, um and I think that goes through the team as well. um I think you're right.
00:18:11
Speaker
it's it's It feels sad that we have to finish the season now because of everything that's happened. It doesn't feel like we've had a fair crack at it. And there is always that fear that it's been too good now, so it's never going to carry on But I don't know like there you know, something about the way Clement is, it feels like he's not someone...
00:18:32
Speaker
that he's prepared to let that happen. And I think, you know, that's the really positive thing. He clearly, or at least the way he talks, he's incredibly ambitious.
00:18:43
Speaker
He wants to do things with this squad and he wants to carry on what they've started. So, yeah, I think I don't think they want to make too many changes. I think they need to bring in some quality in the right areas. But, yeah, I don't think they should go. i don't think they should go mad because this this group has proven.
00:19:06
Speaker
even in the face of adversity when it came to league position, to previous performances and to injury crisis, that they can, you know, they can perform and they can beat some of the best teams in this division. So, you know, we don't, we don't need to go mad.
00:19:22
Speaker
ah Let's talk about the last week, Connor. i in ah In another universe, Kenny McLean's flick header goes in at the death and Norwich go into Saturday with ah with a decent chance of making the top six still. But given given where Norwich were at the start of the campaign, is there just cause to feel a little bit disappointed that Norwich didn't win on Saturday and they aren't still in that race? Or oh is that a bit too entitled to perhaps think that?
00:19:50
Speaker
no not No, not at all. Not for me. i I think there is naturally going to be disappointment and I think there should be because think irrespective of context or situation, you you want this football club to be in around the the top six or or top eight next season of of the championship and and giving itself an opportunity. And that's where many people feel it.
00:20:07
Speaker
It should be, um but that doesn't mean that's where it deserves to be. And I'll sort of recite I can't take credit for it. But every time I ah speak to Chris Gorham about this, one of the best parts of my match days, I get to go down and speak to players. And, you know, you can have 10 minutes with Chris Gorham and kind of pick his brains, which is a good place to be. And every time we kind of entered that discussion about, oh, well, could they, couldn't they?
00:20:29
Speaker
his his answer was always, well, you can't have nine points in November and then expect to get in the top six. And I think that's that's probably right. So it's, in a weird way, it's probably ah a compliment to how well they have done. But naturally, I think it's the fan in all of us to be disappointed that, you know, as as as Zoe said, that it's ending now. And um for the the presser, we saw Pete die and he kind of said the same. It's It's a shame there aren't two, three more weeks to go. because the and and i think the reality is if Norwich would have got in the top six, I think they'd have been a real force. I think they could have been really competitive in those playoffs because of the momentum they have, but equally some of the performances that they've shown against the teams that are that are in there at
Playoffs Disappointment and Turnaround
00:21:06
Speaker
the moment. So, yeah, that's that's the frustration. But I got the sense it lasted for a very limited period of time on Saturday. I think that at the full-time whistle, so you could kind of see it in the players. And actually, i think that's why that huddle from Clement was so important on the final whistle to get... the the players together but I think it also gave some breathing time and thinking time to the fans and I think you you do go back naturally to Leicester game in November where you know I was setting up to do my video post-game and all you could hear was the noise of protest over the South Stand and the City Stand and
00:21:38
Speaker
You have to remember that that was where they came from. So, yeah, I think i think you can feel disappointed and and probably people should feel disappointed. I know Philippe Clement felt disappointed. I know the group of players felt disappointed, but I think both things can be true. I think you can have that, but you can also feel really proud and pleased of where they've come from because what they've done over the last few months is not normal. You look at all the teams at the bottom of the championship who have changed managers, some higher.
00:22:02
Speaker
And they haven't had the impact and they haven't gone the way that they would like. i think it's quite rare, actually, for teams to get better within seasons. It's not something that we see readily. Often you get a managerial change, there might be a bump. Sometimes there isn't.
00:22:14
Speaker
But actually, typically teams regress to the mean. That hasn't really happened with with with with Clement and this squad. So... Yeah, I think you can you can flip it both ways, can't you? um I mean, people always you know say, and I've heard this argument a lot of, how where you wouldn't want to go up this season because you'd want ah next season to build again and to go again and and then to to get up. And that would be a better time to do it. But actually, I think we've seen in football, there is no perfect time to do it. You have to take it when it's when it's there and when you have an opportunity to do it. And who knows, maybe that that could have been this season if if the if the planets were aligned. But
00:22:46
Speaker
And Clement said this himself, I think, to be where they were in November and, yeah, to try and and and be or maybe even be as close to the playoffs they are, to take it to the final minute of the final home game is ah is pretty extraordinary in itself. So, yeah, I'm sure that and and it does feel like when the dust has settled and when the dust settled at Carrow Road, there was that feeling amongst the crowd, which I'm really pleased at, actually, because I think most fans could have, you know,
00:23:09
Speaker
Felt disappointed, gone off on a huff and left the stadium and it could have been a pretty sombre lap of appreciation, but it wasn't. There was energy in it um and and that was that was really pleasing. And hopefully the optimism and enthusiasm that people have at the moment, bottle that and go again next year and try and make sure they're in a position to be competitive in in this very, very difficult, relentless division.
00:23:31
Speaker
Dan, where does the post-game on Saturday rank in terms of, I guess, end of season so far this century? Because for me, it was it was by far the best reception the group of players has ever gotten without a tangible piece of success to show for it. What are your thoughts on on that? and And does it prove that, I guess, the connection with the club is bigger than any form of tangible success?
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, if you're in that Swansea away end on Saturday, and you're looking at the sort of scenes in front of the Barclay, you'd be forgiven for sort of checking your phone looking at the table and just to double check that Norwich haven't broken into the top six and seeing them ninth.
00:24:11
Speaker
a And yet, you know, sort of celebrating like we had achieved something. um And we have and it isn't tangible, but ah wait In my time supporting Norris City, you know, 30, 40 years, I don't recall a time where we've ever survived a a relegation dogfight. And this is, i think this is the first time where we've been properly threatened by relegation and survived it. That Hewton...
00:24:38
Speaker
First season where we're sort of in a dogfight for about two weeks maybe and got out of it um by beating West Brom. don't think that really counts. So, and sports and the joy in sport sometimes is going from those lows to those highs. That's what sustains it. Even if you support one of really big, big clubs, you know, if you don't win the title for a season...
00:25:00
Speaker
that's a low for them and next season, the you know, the joy of winning a title. And it's the same for us.
Celebrating Survival and Community Spirit
00:25:06
Speaker
um And it's the sort of the sense of sort of community and collective and joy and hope from where we were in that, as we've all referenced now, that Leicester game in November, so transformative.
00:25:20
Speaker
that some sort you know you don't always have success doesn't have to be winning something. Success is moving from where you were to ah to a better position. I thought it was lovely. I mean, it it was it did feel like a pitch invasion because there were thousands enormous amounts of people on the pitch.
00:25:37
Speaker
Disappointed not to not to see um Jacob Wright's very fun-looking dad from from last season's end of season parade as well, who looks the most Mancunian man you' you'll ever see. um But it looked like Pete Dye was stepping in for him though, which was very sweet as they walked around. i you if you only If you only celebrate when you've won something or you know really tangible successes, and that's a pretty sad place to be, I think. I think it's absolutely fine to celebrate the fact that we went from the brink of yeah know what could have been disaster going into League One um to now, sort of five months later, sort of really looking forward to next season.
00:26:19
Speaker
and I think as well the... it wasn't just the performances, although that was the main part of it back then. But, you know, we we had several podcasts where we, you know, we were getting very angry with the people in charge of the football club. And it, there was a real sense of disconnect and a real sense that we were losing something. And I think that that is part of it all as well, because I think when you feel like things are slipping away like that, it's sometimes it's,
00:26:52
Speaker
you sort of need that feeling to understand what it means to you, I suppose, like, and and how important it is to you. And I think that having felt that so keenly and not that long ago, so it's still, you know, relatively fresh emotion to feeling like,
00:27:08
Speaker
we understand the club again and that we have a club that, that, you know, is is doing the right sort of things and, and making us proud because they, you know, they really have. um I think that's, that's part of it as well. Like the, the sort of reminder of how much it means. I think sometimes, you know, a few seasons in the championship, sometimes you can get a bit like, Oh, you know, it's the same thing again and again.
00:27:32
Speaker
um but yeah, these reminders, yeah. of the importance of it, I think are really, ah really key. So I think that's, that's part of the feeling as well. You feel it around the place as well. Like I've been very fortunate in my capacity to be at every single home game this season and the stark contrast from August to September, October, so on so forth to yesterday where I did the, I was very fortunate to work the women's fixture yesterday. And so of the staff members rolled over from the Swansea game there. And we were all so gutted to be going home at the end of the day and compare that to a year ago where there was a kind of
00:28:11
Speaker
passive, what happens next kind of feeling. Now was I was going to say in Captain Canary, I'll cut that. but i was I was friends with Captain Canary yesterday and I took a moment pitch side to kind of look around and take it all in and think how lucky we are that when things do click, this is ah if you're into your your sport and your football, obviously that's the only caveat, but it it is the center of a community and that attachment you have for your local football team is like nothing any other fan across the country will it will experience in in in my opinion.
00:28:46
Speaker
and Can I just add to that without wanting to bang on? the I think it's a celebration of the fact that we've sort of produced really kind of fun football as well.
00:28:57
Speaker
And a point to what Connor made earlier about a lot of people wanting a manager to come in and firefight. I've seen a lot of, quite a lot of people say we've we've bottled the real pressure games like losing to Ipswich, not winning on Saturday, you know, with a chance for top six. But I think the way we've played has made people forget that up until we beat Leicester at their place, we were like, every game was a pressure game.
00:29:24
Speaker
we we I think we were still in the top bottom three at the turn of the year. And until that Leicester game, which is what end of February, hadn't really pulled away to the to the extent where actually we're probably going to survive now. So And so many relegation six-pointers that we won. Huge amount of pressure going into those games to win. But we performed like...
00:29:45
Speaker
And this is, you know, testament to the players and the manager performed like there was no pressure on them. They played good football, attacking football, while being, you know, defensively very sound as well, created lots lots of chances.
00:29:56
Speaker
And I think maybe that's been lost in a little bit as well. We have performed under pressure and performed really, really well. And a lot of the sort of joy ah on Saturday, those full-time scenes, is because we're celebrating a team that played...
00:30:09
Speaker
Really nice. Like you compare the compared to how it was when we actually got into the top six under Wagner, the last game of the season before the playoff game. um And the feeling was much better, like visibly much better after this. And we haven't made the playoffs this time. So, you know, that's not success compared to making the playoffs, is it?
00:30:30
Speaker
I think people just hate joy, don't they? That's the the long and short of it. I think they they hate someone else's joy. And I think what I would say maybe to people, Norwich people getting maybe frustrated or wound up with that would be, well, it's not made for them. It's not a club that's made for those people who who don't understand it and um you know don't interpret it in in the same way. it's It's a football club for the people here. And I i think...
00:30:53
Speaker
and maybe there is it an element a cliche to it, I think Kenny McLean said it post-game as well, and he knows better than anybody. when you When you have this football club, I think, pointing in one direction, i think it is a really powerful place because of the nature of the geography of it. I genuinely think when the football team is doing well, you can feel that in the city and you can feel that that vibrancy,
00:31:12
Speaker
across the the place. I mean, I've got a six-year-old lad who's beginning to show kind of signs in of interest in football. Didn't really have any interest before the turn of the year and Norwich started winning a lot. So, there's there's lots of stuff like that and individual stories, I think, that help along the way. And also, you know, I saw a lot of those kids of similar age, you know, that Philippe Clement was was leading in in those fistballs. What a moment for those guys, be it relatives of of players, young fans themselves. That's a moment that they're now they're never going to forget. So,
00:31:41
Speaker
I don't know, people should just stop being miserable, I think, and just try and enjoy football. Because, yeah, as as as Dan said and and Zoe as well, I think it's it's a game that you know doesn't provoke joy that often. I think, by and large, most seasons are frustrating or disappointing because only one team can win the league. and Only three get promoted. So the vast majority of the league don't. um And so I think when when those moments do happen, you've got to embrace them and enjoy it And for those young players, think about how they'll feel heading off to summer now because, yeah,
00:32:10
Speaker
Certainly, I was stood there watching the scenes going, blimey, imagine what this place would be like if this team could win a promotion, they could get in the in the top eight next season. It's going to be a really, really vibrant, positive place to be, which is how Carroll Road should be, I think.
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would take ninth place and the atmosphere around Saturday over sixth place and severe detachment any day
Kenny McLean: Player of the Season
00:32:32
Speaker
of the week. ah Zoe, Kenny McLean, player of the season. Palomats in second. Kellen Fisher third. Oskar Schvartal, young player of the season too.
00:32:43
Speaker
I mean, Kenny winning it, there's there's no surprise there. He was clearly so livid that he won it because he tried to knock the trophy off the podium. He's fuming. But I mean, you can't say fairer than that, right? I think Kenny kenny is has been the absolute stalwart this season and it's richly deserved, right?
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, it couldn't have been anyone else. um I'd be really interested to know what, I don't know if they've released it, but what percentage of the votes he's got, because ah I imagine it was quite a landslide, I would say. um Would like to know also if he did his apology hand when he did throw the trophy on the floor. um But he, yeah, he's been, it's been a lovely year for Kenny, really, in terms of, especially recently with um sort of celebrating him and, um you know, getting to experience, I think how people feel about him. Like, I think that, I think that's been really great. And i think he is ah just, he is just so important to us. And I think he really does,
00:33:45
Speaker
sort of reflect what the manager wants on the field. he You know, he spends, I've said it before, he spends a lot of time pointing um and he seemed, you know, he's living every moment of it. um And you saw it on Saturday, you know, he was just so desperate for us to win.
00:34:00
Speaker
you know, he was the one trying to take it by the scruff of the neck, charging forwards, doing what he could. I would have loved it if that route that sort of bursting run he'd done from the centre circle through to the penalty area. I'd have loved it if that had gone in, because that would have been brilliant. But, you know, it's just this whole season has been a reminder of how great he's been for us and how much he cares about the club, um which is just, yeah. And again, sort of harking back to what I've already said about fans wanting to feel that connection and to feel like what's happening on the pitch or behind the scenes reflects how they feel about the club as well. I think Kenny,
00:34:42
Speaker
Kenny is such a good example of that. um and and that's why And that's why fans love him and respect him so much because you can tell it means something, can tell he understands it. um And yeah, I really hope he has ah as a good World Cup and enjoys himself because I think he deserves it. And I'm so glad it touch wood, he's not yet injured um and and still fit to play.
00:35:07
Speaker
Just going to pose a quick question for each of you. The same question. ah If you're putting together your all-time Norwich City XI, is Kenny McLean now first choice in central midfield? I'll start with you, Conor.
00:35:24
Speaker
Well, I think there's different ways to answer that, isn't there? If I'm going my lifetime, because obviously i never saw the likes of Ian Crook, Martin Peters, et cetera, that other people would put in there, um then I think he probably would be, yeah, on that basis. I think it's hard to...
00:35:39
Speaker
to argue and it feels like i mean zoe said it there it's been a fabulous year for me in terms of personal accolades but it also feels like the that kind of he's got the most acceptance and love i think that it always feels like there's been this kind of ongoing battle over whether he's actually any good or not and my view is always that he's been pretty good and he's pretty good and it feels like this is the year maybe that kind of everyone's been converted to to that view maybe i'm wrong in that but i think yeah all of those reasons probably means he's pushed himself into into legendary status now i think so Yeah, i think I think in terms of lifetime, which is how going to narrow down that question you've asked, i think he' he'd be in there for me. yeah
00:36:13
Speaker
Dan, you celebrated your 90th birthday yesterday. in your in your lifetime, ah Kenny McLean, all-time centre-manfielder? um I am not old enough to remember Martin Peters or Martin O'Neill.
00:36:30
Speaker
um I am old enough to remember Ian Crook and Jeremy Goss and, you know, old enough to remember Johnny Housen and Damien Francis. he'd He'd certainly be in the squad.
00:36:41
Speaker
Not sure he'd definitely be starting in my lifetime, but he'd be in the squad and probably starting in important games, I think. But I mean, unbelievable servant. Two player of the season wins in three seasons, shows how much affection is ah reserved for him.
00:37:00
Speaker
I thought he robbed Sarah two years ago. But this this season was has been consistently, um ah well ah probably our only consistent player, actually. Even Fisher went out to play left-back under Manning.
00:37:14
Speaker
Looks like a boy trying to play men's football during that time. um Whereas I thought k Kenny was the only one who was near to his levels under Manning and has probably stepped it up under Clermont's probably playing the finest football of his career at the moment. And you never know at that age, whether his legs, you know, might go, but if they don't, then he's probably the first name on the team sheet again next season as well.
00:37:41
Speaker
And very happily so. Zoe? Well, i'm I'm old enough to remember Alex Tetty and I'm old enough to remember Gabby Sarah as well. So it's ah it's a tough it's tough competition. um I think I'd be the same as Dan. I think he'd be in my squad, but I'm not sure he'd be in my starting 11. But...
00:38:02
Speaker
That's not to take it away from him. um Again, going back to my favourite person, the commentator from the Derby match on Sky the other night, made a really funny statement because he said, ah Kenny McLean's been pulling the strings for Norwich for four and a half years, which is a very specific length of time that to not be accurate. because He's obviously been here for eight and a half. a week like we get well about eight So ah my question is, did the commentator think that he's only been good enough to pull the strings for Norwich for the last four and a half years? Or did he indeed think he's only been at the club for four and a half years? I'm not sure. I wonder if that coincides with with Emmy Buendia leaving and they were like, I'm not going to push it too far. But for the last four and a half years, he's been all right, basically. yeah For what it's worth, I would put him in.
00:38:53
Speaker
I put him in now. And we'll discuss where he ranks in all time players this century. But later on in the pod, pardon, by later on, I mean in a few months time. So it's been a big change for Norwich City this season and for us at OTB too. There may not be a gun at the club anymore and we may have neglected this feature this season, but it's time we brought it
Return of 'Gun to the Head' Segment
00:39:16
Speaker
back. It's our new version of Gun to the Head.
00:39:31
Speaker
like a camp Blade Runner, isn't it? I'd forgotten how that ended. I was half imagining that light heavy metal man going, come to the herd. That's a different feature. It sounds like someone's dropped a lighter or something on the kitchen floor, doesn't it? Which can be dangerous as well.
00:39:50
Speaker
Our guest this week, Connor Southwell, has had a few questions there written for him by Mr. Dan Brigham. Dan, I'll hand over to you to point your gun at Connor's head.
00:40:01
Speaker
but Thank you, Ryan. Let's be honest, we ah we're only calling this gun to the head so we could use that jingle again. yeah There aren't really many and or questions in this, but just a bit of fun because obviously last ah next Saturday is last game of the season.
00:40:14
Speaker
And as we've got Connor here, we thought we'd do ah a mini end of season set of questions for him. Some of the questions may be a little more serious than others. Connor, can I start by asking you...
00:40:29
Speaker
Your most fun player man or manager interview of the season, please. this Yeah, this is quite an easy one. I think Motore post-Oxford. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Which I didn't even really realise what he'd said until after I'd i listened to it back and he had said what he'd said. And apparently it's quite a common sort of Australian turn of phrase. So, yeah, for those who missed it, he kind of said that if he'd have missed the third goal, I think he said, i i would have killed myself.
00:40:58
Speaker
which wasn't the turn of phrase that I was expecting or anticipating. But that was that was quite humorous. and And to be fair, I think Mo, I've only spoken to Mo twice, but I think both times he's shown a pretty good sense of humor. So i would I'd say Mo Torre for that one, but particularly post-Oxford when he scored his hat-trick.
00:41:17
Speaker
I don't think we can get on a moral high ground about that when we are doing a feature literally called Gun to the Head right now as well. And the most awkward player or manager into interview this season.
00:41:28
Speaker
Yeah, probably not one that I did. I'd say it was it was the last Liam Manning one. I'd just probably file under uncomfortable. It always is, I think. But it was the only real moment up to that point. He'd been pretty, I mean, you see it towards certainly the end of man managers' tenures. They get a little bit snappy and bitey, unless they're David Wagner. And in which case they get a bit snappier and bitey as they start doing well. but That's a different story.
00:41:52
Speaker
And his yeah his his last game against Leicester, I think it was Paddy asked him a question about his future and he kind of snapped back, think asking for a bit of respect, which was sort of the first time that we'd seen it, yeah, sort of spill over a little bit with him, I think. And that that was the moment you sort of thought that it was then. And I was quite sad about it. I know a lot of people have their view on on Liam. i always I can only take people as I find them. might I found him to be really pleasant and good to deal with. um I recognise his interviews weren't the most... um thrilling and actually having spoken to him in pre-season he knew that as well and I think some of that was was deliberate on his part but yeah I'd say that that was probably the the most awkward one of the of the season I would say Well played picking someone else for that
00:42:38
Speaker
Connor doesn't do awkward. i'm trying to i haven't had too many awkward interactions with players this year, I don't think. Because a lot of well First, it's actually a really good group of people, which is quite rare. But also, they were that bad. It would have been hard for them, I think, to snap back at any sort of question that that we asked them at that time about how bad they were. So I think most of them took it. I certainly can't remember anyone complaining about it, really.
00:43:04
Speaker
But um um my memory's not the best, so that it's possible they do. We're going to lean into ah your life on the road with the Pinken
Travel Insights and Fun Anecdotes
00:43:13
Speaker
lads now. And the big one, best and worst service station of the season.
00:43:19
Speaker
Well, worst has to be Blythe, quite comfortably. think every time I see that on a sign late on a Saturday night, part of my soul dies, to be honest. Because it's so far from home still? It's still a long mission. Yeah, and it's sort of typically, it's kind of your Northwest crawlers that you stop there. And yeah, like you've still got, I don't know, three hours left. And just the selection isn't very good. think you've basically got a, I'm allowed to say brands on here now, I don't know, so it's fine. We can get them to sponsor us. Basically, I think it's an M&S, you've got a Burger King, you've got a WH Smith,
00:43:58
Speaker
And then basically around the back, you've got a load of tables that I don't think have been cleaned for about 20 years. So it's not the most pleasant place to ah to be. And so that's worse.
00:44:09
Speaker
Best, I think I would say Norton Canes, which is good. i don't know if you stopped there, but it's quite highbrow. Where is Norton Canes? I think from memory, it's off the M6 toll road, think. So it's quite new. That's quite good. Rugby services is quite good. and That's quite modern these days. So yeah, probably those two, I would say for for best service station.
00:44:33
Speaker
Oh, interesting. i was just trying to bring up Grant Holt's top five service stations from his autobiography and and neither Neither of those are mentioned. He put T-Bay in at number one. Yeah, well, do you know, I was speaking to my Radio Norfolk colleagues about this post-Bristol City because they were saying, is that is that also that's also known as like Gloucester services, isn't it? No, they're different. tbays in T-Bay's in Cumbria, but Gloucester obviously is in Gloucester. But they are owned, I think, by the same people, yeah. Of course. So they were kind of telling me how amazing it was. Foster services is incredible. We didn't stop there. So that's obviously one for us to check out next season. I think when we go to Ashton Gate again, probably on a random Tuesday night in the middle of October. And does Cambridge services remind you of coming back to Norwich like it does for Grant Holt?
00:45:20
Speaker
It does, but then often it's it's like, I deem that, which probably speaks volumes of where Norfolk is, that's almost a bit too close to stop at. There's not really any point. once you Once you get to Cambridge, you might as well keep going, I think. So we try and stop before that, usually, I would say. So, yeah, don't stop there often. But, yeah, when we do, actually, it's usually on the way out rather than the the way back in. okay and That really is the decision of a man who doesn't like flavour. Is that, well, I'll wait another hour until I eat. LAUGHTER Another on the road question. best press box stroke press seats. Wi-Fi of the season.
00:45:57
Speaker
Wi-Fi this season that's that's interesting uh Southampton was good you tend to find the better ones are the ones who have just been or have been recently in the Premier League um they tend to be the the better ones you have a hard wire that works you have a bit of space I always view it because I'm quite tall so anywhere with leg room is a little bit of a bonus um from from my perspective so yeah I've I think I'd say this season Southampton is having compared to what it was a couple of seasons ago compared to what it is now has significantly improved. So Southampton the best. Did you ask me for the worst or not? I didn't, but you feel like it feels like you want to tell us the worst.
00:46:41
Speaker
and Oxford, probably. Just as an overall experience, that's not a not a huge sadness to say goodbye to them, really. That's a shame, isn't it? You'd think a place like Oxford, which is the city of you know tech giants, might be able to in install some decent Wi-Fi. But you've only got three stands, you're probably not that worried about the Wi-Fi, are you? On the same theme, Connor, most convenient plug socket collection in the media room of the season?
00:47:07
Speaker
Ooh. Charlton had a lot of plugs. Oh, there So their press room was quite interesting because it was almost underground. It was like a classroom during the week, I presume, for their foundation stuff. So you had all this, like, it was clearly they designed it trying to be, like, hip and trying to be young because there was loads of, like, writing that was graffiti style on the wall and stuff and and whatnot. And there was, ah yeah, just a huge amount of plug sockets. So, yeah, Charlton for that one, I would say. Good on them. Travelodges, take note as well. On to a spicy one now.
00:47:43
Speaker
Opposition fans you've most wanted to punch of the season.
00:47:48
Speaker
you know It's a bit of a character flaw. I don't really do anger. So um I tend to find them all quite funny, I would say. um So yeah, nowhere really comes to mind. that Most of the people are quite pleasant because they're not that fussed about Norwich, to be honest. um So I'll flip the question slightly and I'll say um when Norwich played Millwall, very, very bizarrely, ah the so the press box, which is usually empty there, you can usually have, it's quite a tight press box, not much leg room.
00:48:16
Speaker
So usually you can kind of spread out a bit and, you know, me and my colleagues put kind of seats between us, not because we don't like each other, but because there's ah room to spread out. And this year they decided to pack it full of fans, I think. So basically either side of me, I had kind of two Millwall fans that when they scored, matched up.
00:48:33
Speaker
So that was a bit, yeah, that was probably, yeah. When we won. yeah Well, they didn't when Norwich scored, but obviously they scored first. i mean, that's quite dangerous, isn't it? Norwich winning. I thought so. and And they actually came in with tickets. So i don't know if they'd sold tickets for the press box that day, which is quite a good idea, I think, in terms feeling the failure. But that's probably the closest I've come to um to anger this season at any fans. But actually, in ah in a lot of the grounds, you are a little bit self-contained. So usually the answer to this would be Rotherham, which when you went there, you literally sit next to their fans and they're um yeah they they don't tend to like many people. So, yeah.
00:49:08
Speaker
yeah i was When I was working at the club, I was at the den when we got beaten 4-0 in Russell Martin's last ever game for us. And I was on the end of the press box, a tiny little wall, and next to me was just a crowd of Millwall fans. And I've never been so relieved that Norris City had been hammered that day. Look at that leaning over to look at um look at the little TV screens and stuff like that you get.
00:49:32
Speaker
um And after every time they scored, wouldn't hear the end of it, but I think I'd rather it that way around, though. I quite like going to Millwall. I think they're generally, they're not that fussed about Norwich, are they? So, but yeah, I don't, I'll cross them at the same, at the same time. So, yeah. Worst opinion you heard from a Pinken colleague of the season?
00:49:51
Speaker
Paddy Dellett saying that Coventry is a nice place. thank you that's A lovely cathedral. not much yeah If you want a football one, then it will be any of us that thought Liam Manning was a good appointment. That's the obvious answer. they one of those None of us thought that, though. and To be fair, last time I went there, week um me and Sam, who obviously is is my former colleague, we got our car locked in a school. Usually there's a car park pretty close to the ground and we didn't get parking for whatever reason. And so we kind of looked and there are, as there are for fans, kind of car parks that you can pay to go in. And um we obviously, I wasn't aware there was a cutoff. So we came back slightly later. And when we got there, the gates were closed. And thankfully, i know someone who works in the commentary media team. So I ran them in a bit of a panic, like car's stuck, can't get home. What do i do?
00:50:41
Speaker
They then directed me to the council who then went, why are you in a school? And so I had to then go through that process. Yeah. ideal and in the end the man came out to let us out but i think we left coventry that night at about nine o'clock and it was a three o'clock kickoff so that gives you an individual was thinking paddy was probably staying in coventry to see family was he so yeah ah he was he definitely traveled separately and i can't remember why but i'm pretty sure he was in the same car park but got out of it are you are you insinuating that paddy's the one who locked you in That's a theory.
00:51:12
Speaker
I wouldn't knock it down. So, you know, who knows? We've already touched on your lack of interest in flavour. Self-confessed lack of interest. So can you tell us your most memorable flavour from a media room food of the season?
00:51:27
Speaker
Leicester's usually pretty good, I would say. um ah So it's a lot of pies in the championship. That's what you realise. And only when I sit back and reflect, I think, blimey, I've eaten a lot of pies this year, which is not good, really. There's the name of your autobiography. Yeah, it is. So anywhere that does something different is is is pretty good, but not something, you know, like ah you say, exotic that um wouldn't appeal to my taste buds. So, yeah. I'll just have the pastry. That's it. None of the filling. i've definitely I think it was Southampton where i had I had a pie and couscous.
00:52:04
Speaker
So that was quite an interesting combination. Oh, good. but yeah that was an interesting combo not I'd want to be in that car journey on the way home thankfully we stayed overnight so it was a long pass since then um ah yeah I think that one stands out otherwise it's just a lot of pastry and bits in pastry typically Norwich is quite good to be fair had a We still have an unwritten rule. We don't talk about this stuff. So you're you're getting out of me. We had a nice honey. So it was chicken in like a honey sauce that was that was honey mustard sauce. It was quite nice on Saturday. So yeah, that was good. Depth it up since my time then. I forgot the name of the lovely lady who works in the press room at Norwich. Does she still make her banana bread?
00:52:46
Speaker
Jane. I don't know if she makes it, but yeah, that's still there. Although they have changed the recipe in the last season or so. And the sign of the times, the the slices are definitely getting smaller than they once were.
00:52:59
Speaker
Maybe you're just getting bigger. That's also probably true. Yeah. Right. Let's talk about some football action now. Your favourite and lowest moments of the season.
00:53:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Favourite would be one of the away days. I think Wrexham stands out to me as a really, really good one. I think that was the first time we spoke about earlier that I really thought they'd get out of it and quite comfortably because of the way that they performed that day. I think they went behind, didn't they? or they No, no, no, they didn't. They were pegged back and then they went on to win the game. It was Jovan McCalma. That felt really big because... um Actually, for a previous answer, their fans were quite annoying. So maybe I'd, maybe I'd fit that, but that's because of where the press room is. You're at the front of a stand and literally like Carrow Road, they would be on a seat behind you. So that wasn't ideal. and I had some guy who decided to commentate through the whole game, which was not, not ideal really. But enough about Chris Gorham.
00:53:51
Speaker
so yeah probably that one is is my favorite I think low point yeah would would be that Leicester game wouldn't it and and probably less the football but more so again the scenes afterwards and the site as I was setting my tripod up for my verdict of the first team being front marched around the pitch with police officers that was pretty dark I think as a period of time when you had kind of the protests going on and um I remember being stood in the mix zone and you could hear kind of all of the the chanting and the and the protests and um whatnot. So, yeah, I think it's hard to look past that for darkest moment because i think at that point it really felt like um they were going and and and they were they were gone probably and doomed. And it would it would take a hell of a miracle to pull them out of it. And yeah, thank goodness they they have, I would say. at The moment you most wished you were in the stands of the season.
00:54:41
Speaker
Leicester away, I think. think i think that was ah that was a good away end that day. and And a really good result as well. And I think scenes afterwards, usually I would kind of reserve this for late winners, but unless I'm missing one, I don't really recall that many late winners. We've done sort of a winning from behind, haven't we? But we've not, that's the one thing maybe we've not ticked off. Obviously, Boston very nearly at Sheffield United. Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, that would have been the moment, wouldn't it?
00:55:09
Speaker
So yeah, Leicester away, I think, in terms of that away end, and that was the first time I'd heard the Paris Magoma chant and all of that sort of stuff. that was That was a pretty good day. So yeah, I'd say Leicester probably for that one. That Paris Magoma chant is in my head, i would say, about 76% of the time, all at a all times. It does not take much for it to suddenly be in my head. It's so addictive. I also like the Palomazzo one where half of the people don't know what the lines are, which is is great fun. I reckon that applies to on-the-ball city still, to with a lot of Carro Road. Yeah.
00:55:46
Speaker
Strangest or you know weirdest moment of the season then? And this could be on the pitch or off the pitch. On the pitch, Jakov Medici plays a striker. That was just not a very strange moment of the season. mean I can say it now. I wasn't that big a fan of it. i thought i thought it but If I was looking at from a Sheffield Wednesday perspective, I would have thought it was a little bit disrespectful in that in the circumstances. But I'm not, so who cares really? But it was yeah it was a bit of a it became a bit of a pantomime. and I actually didn't think Norwich played that well that night, so it could have gone very differently and been looked upon very differently. So, yeah that was That was strange, I would say, just in terms of how that um all unfolded.
00:56:22
Speaker
Off the pitch, it probably yeah it probably would be getting locked in a school at Coventry. I think that um that was that was very strange. and and now I've now got an encyclopedic knowledge of who you need to contact at Coventry Council if you're ever in the emergency situation and the releasing. so And the alphabet, I imagine. And the alphabet, yes. I think we've covered this, but but your player of the season, Connor.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, Kenny, I think for all of the reasons you guys stated earlier. And your signing of the season?
00:56:55
Speaker
That is a good question. I think you're hard-pressed look past Pella Mattson in terms of the impact that he has and the quality that he has. i think he is somebody that has the potential to be a Premier League footballer in terms of the way that he plays. Yeah.
00:57:10
Speaker
I still find still find it quite funny, actually, that they spent about three months haggling over half a million quid for him and ended up paying it anyway because of the circumstances. And i think in most cases, you would say that's pretty poor recruitment, but I think it's been pretty clear why they like where they and other teams like him. And yeah, I don't think that he will be probably at Norwich or a championship football for for very long. So I think in terms of even what they did pay for him, I think they will flip that pretty comprehensively, pretty quickly. um
00:57:41
Speaker
And probably if he was fit for longer, you'd say Jovan McCarma, wouldn't you? And actually, for all of the stick that Norwich's recruitment has got, I think what we've seen is they are pretty capable of finding a a half-decent striker, which bodes well ahead of this summer where they're going to be looking for another one. It does feel that whenever Napa spends three million or less, we we get a bargain. When he spends more than three million, we're we're in trouble. Sort of Norwich in general though, right? In terms of like history historically, he feels a bit like that.
00:58:06
Speaker
Your goal of the season, Conor, Yeah, I think so the obvious ones would be like a like a one from distance. I think i think my favourite one was probably Schwartaus at Millwall, and just in terms of the way that they counted. I think it was a lovely ball from Jack Stacey. And then Was it Schwartel running and Torre and then back to Schwartel? It was a brilliant goal, so ruthless and also for me a a big kind of plus and and insight into the way that Philippe Clement wants to play in terms of vertically, being very quick, moving the ball through the lines and also I'm a big fan of Oscar Schwartel so anything with with him at the end of it I think goes up in my estimations.
Connor's Favorite Moment: Away Day at Wrexham
00:58:47
Speaker
but that was particularly enjoyable. So yeah, that one at Millwall away and obviously for the context of the game was was really important for probably what was the the performance of the season for me.
00:58:56
Speaker
Penultimate question, everyone everyone will be relieved to hear. Where will we finish next season of the season? a
00:59:06
Speaker
fourth would take take that I think well Zoe wouldn't would she I'm doing that on the basis I think Tottenham are probably going to come down now so I think that might take first but yeah you've got Burnley who pretty experienced at this level and just tend to be boring and go up And then, you know, you possibly have got on Middlesbrough or Southampton, maybe even an Ipswich at this stage still in the league. So, yeah, after that, I think then hopefully Norwich.
00:59:37
Speaker
And finally, Connor Southwell's Norwich City Football Club Podcast of the Season. ah probably contractually obliged to say the pinking, aren't I? Can I say my other one? I don't know about your contract. Neither have I, so I probably am contractually obliged to say that. So, yeah, all the episodes that haven't got me in it.
00:59:57
Speaker
So that one. Just one, is it? I think so, yeah. and Paddy needs to give you some time off, Connor. Excellent. Well, thank you very much for those very full and fun answers, Connor. Yeah.
01:00:09
Speaker
Lovely stuff. Thank you, Connor. It's time for fancy dress, beach balls on the pitch and one last long drive. For the final time this season, Norwich City have a championship
Final Championship Fixture and Player Goodbyes
01:00:20
Speaker
fixture. A trip to Hull awaits this weekend. And no, we won't talk too much about what might have been.
01:00:27
Speaker
uh zoe it was announced in the week that there are going to be a few player departures not least your favorite tony gary springer our favorite tony gary springer i'm going to try and turn this into a question is this a chance on saturday for some formal goodbyes and perhaps minutes for those some of those players who are going anyway or is there no room for sentiment still well Well, we should just take a moment for friends of the pro friend of the podcast, Tony Gary Springett.
01:00:59
Speaker
We'll do our season wrap up next week. But yeah, the story of Tony Gary this season has been one of the most heartwarming things that has happened, whatever whatever is going to happen next. um And I thought it was really touching the way Clement talked about him as the glue of the dressing room and what a laugh he is and how much people really like him and respect him.
01:01:22
Speaker
I know there are lots of misery guts out there that think that there is no place in football for someone that's just filling a space for being good to have around. But you have seen like throughout history that managers like those sort of players. um You know, it's a long season. It's a hard season. Things don't always go your way. Having players who can keep spirits up, who can make people laugh are really important. You know, Paul Lambert used to take Matt Gill on basically every away trip and he was never in the squad. um And it is just seemed to be because he was a good a good guy that people liked to to be around. And, know, Yes, you know, I know he's not staying and hopefully he goes and, you know, he's been out for so long. He deserves to play football. I mean, what is the point of fighting so hard to come back if you're not going to play football? So I'm delighted that that he might go somewhere, that he gets to play. um it's ah And it's ah it's a shame that, you know, probably...
01:02:24
Speaker
We got quite good at a time at the wrong time for for him. um so So, yeah, it's ah it's a real shame, but it it's been lovely to see what's happened um this season. um But to be honest, to to actually answer your question, Ryan, um I'm not sure he will be bothered about some of that stuff. I mean, you certainly didn't see some of those players in the squad for our last home game of the season. You know, a lot of them were there. They got to go on the pitch, wave at people. but um
01:02:55
Speaker
i i i I can't see it personally. I can't see him bringing people into the squad that have not been in the squad unless he needs to. um i think he'll go out there, play his best team and hope that we win um because that seems to be what he does every week. So yeah, i can't I can't see it necessarily, but hopefully again, hopefully they travel and they get to go and say thank you to the fans at the end.
01:03:20
Speaker
it's It's a weird one for Hull, Dan, because they've only won twice at home since January, and one of those was against Sheffield Wednesday. ah When you put that into perspective and just how topsy-turvy the division is, does it kind of, in a weird way, make Norwich's rise all the more impressive? Because there was a point towards the end of of the last calendar year where Hull were very much in contention for the automatic promotion places. Now there's a good chance they're not even going finish top six.
01:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, i get I don't want to go all NCFC numbers in his absence, but Hull's underlying numbers have been bad all season. And it feels like they've finally regressed to where they should be over the last couple of months, which is you know a team with obviously an enormous amount of fighting spirit for all the issues they've had all season with transfer embargoes.
01:04:09
Speaker
And you know whatever the numbers say, that it is still mightily impressive and what that club has done this season, especially when you look at impact that kind of thing can have on Sheffield Wednesday or has had on Sheffield Wednesday as well.
01:04:22
Speaker
um For me, it feels like, again, a bit of regret that a team, don't want to sound patronising, but Hull and Derby County are not better than Filipe, Clement, Norwich City. They're both incredibly admirable. admirable Both managers have done brilliant jobs there.
01:04:41
Speaker
But, if you know, i think if you're looking as a neutral and looking at the squad, Norwich has ah have a better squad than both of those teams. So they've both massively underperformed ah sorry over-performed. um And it just makes me sort of regret the start of the season that ah we're kind of still looking up at those two those two teams above us. um But, you know, it's one last opportunity this season to just show how far this club has changed and turned in the previous five months up to this point as well.
01:05:14
Speaker
um i'm trying I'm trying to think who I'd rather see seal that last sixth spot. I don't know. i don't really see Wrexham, Harlow, Derby troubling any of the other teams in the playoffs. um I don't know. I'm not sure if anyone else has got an opinion on who they want to see grab that sixth spot, but it feels like very much um a fight that will quickly peter out much like us when we got beaten 4-0 by Leeds a couple of seasons ago in the playoffs.
01:05:43
Speaker
I don't have a preferred team, but I think Derby will get there in the end. i think because Wexham have got Borough at home and Borough are very much going for top two. And then you look at us going to Hull and Hull being very, very shaky. And I think Derby, especially with the way they won at QPR on Saturday, I think ah maybe not literally mathematically, but I think metaphorically it's Derby's to lose. i don't know what you guys think.
Speculation on Sixth Playoff Spot
01:06:09
Speaker
although ah if if Am I correct in saying Salampton Ipswich play there midweek? Yes. So if sal ah if Ipswich beats Salampton, that's second sealed, isn't it? So maybe Burrow will rest a bunch of players.
01:06:22
Speaker
Possibly, yeah. Very, very possibly. Zoe, what do you think? ah Yeah, I kind of agree that it's a bit miserable thinking about it, isn't it? Because Derby was so rubbish, especially in that first half against Norwich. You're like, God, what if it's them? hi It's so recent that we've we've been exposed to it, but it just feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yeah.
01:06:42
Speaker
I think if you, you know, gun to the head, as is the theme of this podcast, um I'd probably say I'd want Hull to get in, but then i don't want them to beat us. So it's a tricky situation. um Like the Wrexham story is a good one, but i I think it would be unbearable if they were in the playoffs. like I think it would be unfair on whoever they played. ah Maybe I have to go for Derby in that in that case. What do you think, Connor?
01:07:14
Speaker
I don't know if i care really. To be really honest, I quite like dragons. So yeah, why not? project um heart You see, know I love rams. So this is where i'm this is where I'm at at the moment. No one here likes tigers though, apparently. The Tigers are the best out of all of those three things, though, aren't they? Speaking of the Tigers, great segue.
01:07:36
Speaker
Conor, Hull have got a couple of ex-Norwich players in the squad in Kieran Dowell, Brandon Williams too, and Akin Femewo, of course, of Norwich Academy fame. That does contribute to them having the 19th oldest squad in the division. And as Dan mentioned earlier, that their underlying numbers are...
01:07:53
Speaker
quite poor but just how crucial is it when the chips are down like that that you have the kind of experience that they have in their squad to get you over the line because even though they have been relatively poor they are still within touching distance of the top six Yeah, i mean I mean, maybe one of my unpopular football opinions is I think probably everyone conflates experience and and over... Yeah, it's it's kind of spoken about too much. I don't think it's conducive a lot of the time to anything meaningful. Yeah. because actually having loads of experience can be not a great thing for for a club. And I think we so we saw that couple of years ago at Norwich in terms of the connection that people felt to that group that has had the best finish and probably the best season of of any of the teams since ah Norwich came down. But I think generally...
01:08:40
Speaker
it's important or as important probably in the right, you know, having the right amount of it, I think rather than having lots of it in the same way that, you know, it's important to have some really talented young players, but not to have a whole squad full of them because I think we've seen maybe the the ramifications of that. So I think it's more about balance for me and having experience. you could Teams can go and sign a load of 35 year olds, but they've still got to be able to contribute and and move and run and be very good players which is why i think kenny mclean is still so important at norwich city because he adds value off the pitch but he's also still probably their best midfielder um so yeah i think um equally with i've gone off bit of a tangent here now but equally with managers people say oh well you know they've got promotion before so that should you know that's that's what what would make them a good or bad appointment actually a lot of the time it's irrelevant i think it's about how good they are as ah as a player as an individual um
01:09:35
Speaker
So, yeah, I think actually you could maybe look at it and you highlighted their run earlier. How useful has that experience been in in what has been a really pivotal point of the season? hasn't really. So, for me, it's it's more about quality. they've They've got some really good quality. McBurney, for example, I think at this level, um I know he's a bit marmite, but scores goals. and and Their forward players generally are a reason why, as as as Dan said, they've been able to kind of defy a lot of those metrics this season, even though it kind of feels like they've they've caught up with them somewhat. So, yeah, and another a really good test for Norwich's squads and um hopefully one that, yeah, they can kind of finish strongly on the road because that's been a a real plus point of what they've what they've done under Philippe Clement this year.
Philippe Clement's Commitment to Ending Strongly
01:10:18
Speaker
It's been able to go to some really tough places and and get results. And if they're going to be a team, as we all hope, that are contending towards the top end of of the division, then it's going to be about...
01:10:26
Speaker
doing that next season, maybe even in some tougher places. So I think that will be the focus. And and obviously, the more you win, the the habit that that you create, the consistency that you create. And yeah, it was quite interesting to hear Philippe Clement post-match on Saturday speak about how a day off had been cancelled and he really wanted them to attack the the final day, even though there wasn't anything on the line. I think it's going to be a sold out away end. So Yeah, I think it's um it's kind of set up to be hopefully ah a pretty good occasion where Norwich go out and and have a bit of freedom to play some football, which could be quite fun if if done in the right way.
01:11:00
Speaker
Absolutely. What a man. What a man. No day after you. I'm going to say draw. Dan, what do you think?
01:11:10
Speaker
Norwich, I think Norwich's away form has been outstanding and a Norwich win to end the season, I think. Zoe? Zoe? 5-0. Connor?
01:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think Norwich edge it. Nice. Edge it by five. Edge it by five clear goals. Five Olly McBurney-owned goals. And that leads us on to, Kenny, other business. Just one thing from me. Norwich City Women's won 6-1 over Cambridge United at Cowra Road yesterday with goals from Izzy Moore, Natasha Snelling, Holly Kennard and Freya Simmons in front of a bumper 4,063 fans. that sets Norwich up nicely for their playoff final against Moneyfields FC at Burton Albion's Pirelli Stadium next Sunday. The winner goes up to the Southern Premier Division, which is a huge step for Norwich City women's in their meteoric rise up the women's football pyramid.
01:12:03
Speaker
Also, Grace Rigolar was announced as the women's player of the season. She's got 20 goals from centre-back. which is incredible. 13 clean sheets and 20 goals as well.
01:12:16
Speaker
The way you describe that did make it sound like she scored every goal from the centre-back position, which would be The hardest shot in English football. That would be amazing. That would be phenomenal.
01:12:28
Speaker
um A few other ah bits from us. Steve mentioned on the pod last week ah that we have our feature coming up next season where we're going to find out your guys' is top 25 Norwich City players of this century. The form is available now, question mark? Yes, it is. Yes, and it is on our Instagram. And almost works, so...
01:12:54
Speaker
but That's as good as it's going to get. It is in the bio of our Instagram page. So go check that out. And we will be going through your your votes as next season progresses as well. If you're not on Instagram, it is on Steve's or NCFC Numbers' is Twitter feed as well.
01:13:13
Speaker
Or you could go and listen back to the Scrimmage podcast, which Steve is currently on. So yeah, he'll be talking all about it. lovely stuff.
Amusing Moments from the Swansea Game
01:13:24
Speaker
Anything else for this section, guys?
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, just a couple of things from the Swansea game that amused me. Firstly, Jack Stacey's incredible retro dive where you see so such stylish dives from modern footballers and Stacey's little plonk to the ground, which really reminded me of Daniel Farker's impression of Janoulis' foul throw from a few seasons ago. was a real throwback to the 80s where um English footballers hadn't learnt to dive properly so that amused me and then just listening back to ah watching the highlights rather just the goals I really enjoyed when um the penalty was given our penalty was given for chris score the foul on Chris Gore and Adrian Kuto I think it was on CoCom saying he's punched his head off
01:14:11
Speaker
but Really did tickle me that one Oh, cutie. Anything else
Live Podcast Event Announcement
01:14:25
Speaker
Zoe, Connor? Anything you want to plug Connor while you're here?
01:14:28
Speaker
Oh, yes, there is, isn't there? Yeah, good. you Thanks for reminding me of because completely forgotten. Yes, we are we are, as in we, the Pinken, are doing a live podcast this Sunday at the Yard in Norwich. You can get your tickets if you go on any of our social media platforms or on our website, and you can find that. Or if you want to do it the old fashioned way, you can ah search NewsQuest store and you'll be able to find tickets for that there. They are £6 unless you're a subscriber, in which case you can get a discount, hopefully in certain places. And yeah, we want to see as many people there as possible. It'll be a good old chinwag about ah the bizarre season that has been and some of the anecdotes that I shared earlier. So if you've listened to them, skip past them and come on Sunday and hear them again, because that would be great. So yeah, that would that would be great. And hopefully a nice kind of conclusion to what has been a pretty mad campaign all told. So yeah, hopefully people buy their tickets and come and join us.
01:15:23
Speaker
I will go on one condition. You rank all the pies you've eaten this year from one to 24. Do that. Could do that. Yeah. Nice. Okay, good. Well, I'm there. That's all I needed. we We're easily persuadable. So yeah. Anything from you, Zoe?
Listener Gratitude and Final Thanks
01:15:41
Speaker
ah Nothing major other than to say thank you to everyone who has ah come over to the new feed with us. um It's obviously been a couple of weeks of transition over to this new feed, but lots of you have been downloading, including one person in Uzbekistan, which we're very excited about. um So yeah, we appreciate everyone that listens and hopefully you get some enjoyment out of it. Absolutely. Hear, hear. That's all for this week's OTB and Norwich City podcast. A huge thank you to Connor Southwell.
01:16:11
Speaker
Thank you very much. i was glad to listen to the last episode of, was it Dan's future? Sorry. after it and Yeah. And I was quite glad that i wasn't gonna have to come on and do a silly voice this time. So yeah, thanks for having me. but But thank you for your silly voices throughout the season. A pleasure. It's good to put my drama A level to good use. A huge thank you to Zoe Morgan.
01:16:34
Speaker
Thank you, Ryan. And Dan Brigham. Thanks, Ryan. If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating on your podcast player of choice and follow us on Instagram. We're on there now as at otb underscore pod underscore NCFC. Until the next one, never mind the danger.