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Episode 22: New Japan Pro Wrestling's Dominion & Garrett Watches CM Punk Matches For The First Time
60 Plays7 years ago
Join this week's hangout as the boys talk about Southern Underground Pro's most recent event & then gush all over NJPW's Dominion! Also, somehow Garrett has made it to this point in his wrestling fandom without having seen a single CM Punk match and we remedy that this week!
Please rate, review, subscribe and enter our contest to win a pair of tickets to All In in Chicago!
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Transcript
Introduction and Vin Diesel Jokes
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a Pro Wrestling Hangout. I'm your host, Garrett Callender, and with me, as always, a man who, like Vin Diesel, lives his life a quarter mile at a time. Derek Alpin. I'm pretty pissed off that this show has already started with you comparing me to Vin Diesel. Hey, he has a hit movie career, as of late, thanks to The Rock.
00:00:21
Speaker
and a beef with The Rock, which is something I can't relate to. Well, you know what? Because of his beef with The Rock, you're gonna get a movie that stars The Rock and Jason Statham on their own that takes place in the Fast and Furious universe, and that's gonna be more fun than anything you've ever seen in your life. So thanks, man. And you know what's awesome about that? I haven't seen a single Fast and the Furious movie, and that will be my first one, will be the spin-off with The Rock and the Transporter.
00:00:47
Speaker
Oh, and yeah, that's what it is. It's not I know. I know they're calling it like Hobbs and Shaw, but we're calling it Hobbs and Frank Martin. Amen. We got a great show on tap. We should hit our goddamn music.
All In Ticket Contest Announcement
00:01:34
Speaker
Oh boy, man. Where would you like to start, sir? Well, I'm going to go ahead and just start this off at the top. We have a contest going on for these all-in tickets. I don't know if you've heard. I don't know if you've heard. We have a pair of tickets to our sold out show, biggest indie show of all time. I don't know if you've heard it. What's that show, man? What is it called? It's called All In. Oh? Yeah. It's being put on by Cody Rhodes, or known as just Cody. Not allowed to have his last name.
00:02:03
Speaker
And who else is putting on that show? The Young Bucks. You may have heard of them. Pretty big right now. Yeah, kind of a big thing. Okay, and there, you've got what? Kenny Omega. You've got Okada. You've got Jay Lethal. You have... It's just fucking everybody in the Indies. Everybody in the Indies is the show. And where is that show? Where's it happening? Chicago, Illinois.
00:02:23
Speaker
that's by me hey who's gonna be be be at the star cast the convention before the show us us we're gonna be there hey I know you want these tickets I can see that you're listening why isn't I'm gonna go ahead and be straight with you guys we don't have a lot of entries in this contest
00:02:41
Speaker
I can see how many people are listening and how many people are not entering this contest. There should be a lot more entries than there are right now because I know that you want these tickets. Don't be lazy. Get on it. We know that you want to go to All In. So enter the contest. Tell them how to do it, Garrett. I'm gonna go ahead and tell you how to do that.
00:03:00
Speaker
You get on iTunes, hit that five star, write a review, say a couple nice sentences, say your favorite episode of the show. I don't really care. Put what you want, then you email me. You send me a screen cap of your review so that I know that it's yours to predeterminepodcastatgmail.com. Predeterminepodcastatgmail.com.
00:03:25
Speaker
It's that easy. There's no excuse for why you can't do it. And as it stands right now, if you enter, you have a pretty good chance of winning these tickets. And we want to see some more reviews. We want to see some more entries. And there's a possibility that we may have other ways for people to enter down the road, but you never know. We may change our minds on that depending upon how much participation there is.
00:03:45
Speaker
Cause here's the thing, I don't care if you go to All In, I appreciate that you're listening. Thank you so much for listening. I see y'all out there listening. Maybe you don't want to go to All In, you just want to listen to our voices. Godspeed, love you for that. God bless. Uh, just, yeah, enter the contest if you like. And then you can go to All In and you can see us there and see one of the best wrestling shows of all time. I have to imagine it's going to be one of the best wrestling shows of all time.
00:04:10
Speaker
I think it's going to be, and I think you do want to go. I think the majority of our audience who's listening would like to go to this show. So yeah, thanks for listening, everyone. But we know that you're listening. So if you got some time, go ahead and enter the contest. Is that us calling people out? Are we being dicks right now? I don't think we're being dicks. I think we're just telling people like, hey, you know what? If you've been thinking like, I probably won't win, your odds of winning are pretty good. And you know what? If you get a friend, get your friend to enter and have them give you the tickets.
00:04:39
Speaker
fucking do that. I don't care how you win them. It's not your ticket. It's not mine. Yeah, double up. Get a friend, have them enter too. Like get their friend to enter. I mean, I don't care. It's up to you. I'm going to be at the show. You can be at the show if you want to enter. Just whatever.
Southern Underground Pro Wrestling Event Review
00:04:55
Speaker
Let's talk about wrestling, my friend, because this has been speaking of being at shows. You have been at a show recently. I did. I went to Nashville's own Southern Underground Pro.
00:05:05
Speaker
Uh, have you ever been to this before? Of course you have. You've been a couple times. This show really does keep getting better and better. And I know this one, they had a few issues with people dropping out last minute, which just means that superstar Jeff Cobb got pushed to the main event. So, you know, that was fun. Got to see him fight their champ, which it's hard for me to watch Jeff Cobb lose, but he did lose in the main event. That's fine. It's fine. He can't win them all. Doesn't matter if you're in New Japan.
00:05:34
Speaker
You said the show's getting better. Is it still very indie by definition? I would say based from the first time I went to now, I feel like the match quality has gotten better. And what I say by that is, well, there's also some of these guys that, you know, we're seeing like six man matches. So I'm not really getting to see everything that somebody can do. But like this week I got to see, remember I told you about that small wrestler, Marco Stunt?
00:06:04
Speaker
I got to see him have a singles match.
00:06:06
Speaker
Isn't that the guy you said you had a conversation with? Well, I couldn't tell how old he was, and I thought it was offensive to ask, so I just asked him how long he'd been wrestling. It does sound pretty creepy to approach a guy. Was he in his tights? Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess he wears kind of pants like Chuck Taylor wears, you know, the tights, I guess, yeah. Right. I guess it's kind of weird to approach somebody wearing that stuff and go, hey, man, how old are you? Yeah, you can't walk up to somebody that looks like a child and be like, I'm interested.
00:06:36
Speaker
What are you doing after the show? But yeah, he goes by Mr. Fun Size, Marco Stunt. He had a fun match. Oh, also, so Kurt Stallion used to be their champ there. And as he was exiting the ring, because my favorite place to stand there is right where the wrestlers enter, like for their entrances. Sure. And as he was leaving, I said, get the hell out of here, Stallion.
00:07:05
Speaker
And he immediately stopped, turned around, and got right in my face. And I did the only thing that I could do, which was pretend to cry and apologize profusely. Were you really pretending, or were you just scared shitless? Well, after he turned around, I was laughing. Was it nervous laughter? Was I really scared? I mean, you be the judge. You can actually... All of their shows end up on... I believe it's Powerbomb.tv.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'll post something how you can see these, because they are really fun shows. I think, to me, being in a, like, regardless of how good what's happening in the ring is, the vibe of a room can completely change everything. And the matches were great, but I just, I love the vibe in this room. Just everybody's having a great time. I love that it's two o'clock on a Sunday. I just can't say enough nice things about Southern Underground Pro. And there is this wrestler named Ali Cat.
00:07:59
Speaker
They call her body cat. She's a lady cat. She paints whiskers on her face and I've only seen her do intergender matches at this point. She is quickly becoming one of my favorites. If we had a segment on this, who in wrestling would you like to hang out with? Like if we let that replace? She would make the list. Oh, she would make the list. She just seems like fun. I enjoy watching her. She got her ass kicked by, I guess, the person who trains her.
00:08:27
Speaker
Well, you've mentioned her before. Yeah, this was the first time I've seen her not fight another cat wrestler. She had been wrestling a guy named Slutty Cat. And this time around, she was wrestling a demonic clown from the group The Carnies. She left the cat division and entered the clown division. She entered the clown division, did not walk out successful on that one, but successful in stealing all of our hearts.
00:08:51
Speaker
She should have stayed on CAT Live. Jesus. Oh, somebody in the crowd did something brilliant. You know, it shows they'll throw the streamers. It wrestlers occasionally. Yeah. Somebody threw a ball of yarn at her. That's adorable.
00:09:07
Speaker
It was fucking cute. More yarn. Did she play with it? Did she play with the ball of yarn? She really should have, and maybe next time. And also, hey, Alley Cat, sell some shirts. Stand out there. I was prepared to give you money for a picture. Didn't see you around anywhere. Next time. Next time. We'll make sure to tag her when we post the links for this podcast up on her social media and let her know that we want some Alley Cat merch.
00:09:33
Speaker
But we, I did see that she does have a shirt. It says Ali Cat on the Sailor Moon font. And you know what? You would have sold me one right there. Didn't see you around though. Next time. He wants to meet you and get your shirt. And let's see, who'd I go with? I saw some listeners of the show there. Neil was there. Alex was there. Kevin was there. Talked to another gentleman, Steven, who has the Fight Talk podcast. Super nice guy. He actually entered our contest today.
00:10:00
Speaker
So you know what? If you want to be like Steven and be all in, sign up for that contest. If you need to hear how to do it, rewind about four minutes. And contact Steven. I'm sure he can give you a tutorial. Yeah. Shout out to Southern Underground Pro. Super fun show. Going to keep going to that. I love that. Oh my
Upcoming Events and Listener Meetup Plans
00:10:20
Speaker
God. Somebody said that there was a rumor that Nick Gage might be on the next one.
00:10:25
Speaker
Hopefully he listened to our podcast and then he identifies you in the crowd because that'll make for a great episode I Might not stand near the entrance for that one. I you may have you may have to podcast from the hospital I don't know. What if I I feel like I just have to just immediately form an alliance with him Do you feel confident that you can be like fuck yeah, Nick
00:10:47
Speaker
I don't know, I keep hearing from people, and everyone's favorite episode so far is the Deathmatch episode, so. Well, and they just announced, because SummerSlam Weekend, Joey Janela's having another big show, and this one is Joey Janela Lost in New York. Oh, yes. So, what do you think, Derek? Do I need to go back to another Joey Janela Presents show? I don't, here's the thing. I'm not going with you, so fuck yeah. Go get some more shit to talk about for us.
00:11:17
Speaker
I'm contemplating nothing is set in stone yet. I'm just debating what I'm gonna do this Friday. I'm contemplating going to see Freelance Wrestling. Fuck yes. At the Logan Square Auditorium. Now, that's not locked in. You are supposed to be coming up here this weekend. That's the plan, so. There's a big debut at Freelance this weekend.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, PCO. PCO. We've been on the PCO train. I am pushing PCO. I want PCO at fucking Bola this year. This guy has just impressed me so much. I need you to go see PCO and get a picture with that guy. It's such a weird story.
00:11:59
Speaker
But yeah, I'm leaving that door open, don't know what's gonna happen. I know that you, my friend, are supposed to be rolling into town late on Friday. You will not be staying with me, at least for a while. I get the apartment to myself this weekend. No pants for Derek. No pants for DH.
Discussion on New Japan's Dominion Event
00:12:17
Speaker
But yeah, what are we doing this weekend, man? Why don't you give him a little heads up? We're gonna be in Chicago this weekend. Well, you're always there, but we're gonna be going to NXT TakeOver and Money in the Bank.
00:12:30
Speaker
Big weekend of wrestling. And you were saying that, I didn't realize this, you said that on the NXT show this weekend, Adam Cole isn't defending that title? As of right now, I read the NXT spoilers, and we're recording this on a Wednesday, but NXT hasn't aired yet. As of right now, they have undisputed error defending the tag titles, but they do not have Adam Cole wrestling a match or defending the North American Championship. I have to imagine the bomb there though.
00:12:57
Speaker
He's gonna be there, but it'll probably be like on the outside, don't you think? Unless, I don't know, when you go to these shows, this has been the problem I've had at every NXT TakeOver I've attended. They have a start time on the ticket, but it's always wrong from what time it actually starts. So you're saying we should get there early? I would definitely look it up, because they always film the next week's TV before TakeOver.
00:13:22
Speaker
Well, I can tell you this, Saturday we're talking about doing a Wrestle Hangout meetup at Shoeless Joe's Ale House out in Rosemont. Probably do that Saturday afternoon. So if you guys wanna come get some drinks or some food with us, stay tuned with our social media. We'll probably give you an update on that in the next couple days. Yeah, follow us on Facebook, Twitter. We'll definitely be posting where we're gonna be hanging out. We're gonna have a meetup. I know there's a few people that have said they're gonna be there, so that'll be fun.
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah, fun to hang out and just chat wrestling like we do all day. Anyway, why not do it together? Yes in a group setting in a bar and get lost in the conversation and miss the show and no shit That is not going to happen because I have never seen a show in this building and I really really want to
00:14:10
Speaker
Well, I think we should really just kind of cut to the thing that everybody wants to talk about, everybody wants to hear. Some big stuff happened over the weekend in the world of pro wrestling, specifically New Japan pro wrestling. Something that I think, I get the impression that you watched live as it happened, and I watched later that day, New Japan had Dominion. And holy shit, everyone seems to be loving Dominion because it was a fucking awesome show.
00:14:39
Speaker
I mean, for me at least, I've actually watched the show twice now. Nerd alert. I watched all five hours, two times. Because that's how goddamn good this show was. To me, it's easily the best pay per view of the year to me.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think that's the question at this point. I don't know if I had made this clear to you. This was the first New Japan pay-per-view I had watched like start to finish period. Oh my god. Yeah, so I'm starting off on a high note. I've watched bits and pieces of different things. I've watched matches and it wasn't my first New Japan and I was familiar with a good chunk of the people. Actually, the first couple matches on the card, I really didn't know these guys.
00:15:22
Speaker
So I mean, I mean, there's a lot of things we need to talk about with this card and everything because so much happened. We could probably do just a couple episodes on this show. Oh, but we could do a fucking whole episode on the main event. Yeah. Like this show was I mean, if they were out to prove a point, which I also saw, they made an announcement that they have a new president and CEO.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah, the opening package kind of went over that, didn't it? Yeah, it's a guy from New York and he said that he's been watching New Japan for years. He loves the creative, has no intention to do anything different to the show other than he's there to help with marketing and make this as big as possible.
00:16:09
Speaker
So do you want to dive into the technical aspects of Dominion first? Or would you like to just go right into the matches and kind of our reactions to things? Oh, wherever you want to start, man. Kick it off. Well, first of all, like I said, this is my first New Japan pay-per-view. One of the things that was difficult to get into, I mean, the promo packages for each match and hyping the event were really, really good. I wish there had been some more subtitles because some of the stuff, you would get snippets of English.
00:16:37
Speaker
And I just kind of had to pick up on the general vibe of whatever angle was going on. But like that opening package of the new ownership, new president, that was huge. And it made it feel like an even bigger deal. It actually felt like it was like a new chapter that I was kind of jumping in on. And it certainly felt that way by the end of the show.
00:16:59
Speaker
I don't know everything was elevated and I think one of the things that I appreciate about a show like this is that the matches on the card kind of went in order of importance which I kind of miss and I wish that more you know wrestling promotions would do this more often where they
Impact of Western Wrestlers in New Japan
00:17:17
Speaker
don't feel the need to go up and down up and down with you know match importance it just gradually the matches get bigger and bigger and bigger until they swell into the main event and then there's you know the crescendo and the
00:17:27
Speaker
the whole shebang there at the end. And I can't imagine them doing anything that could have made this show bigger. All of the most important figures in pro wrestling outside of WWE had huge nights. Was that fair to say? Yeah, easily. And real quick, just what do you think about the pacing?
00:17:52
Speaker
I think it was good. I think there's not a whole lot of downtime in between matches. They wheel out the next thing and...
00:18:02
Speaker
It really is just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And like you said, I woke up at two in the morning to watch this and I watched it live from two in the morning until damn near seven a.m. Yeah. And by the time this was over, I had no idea that I'd been watching it for five hours. Like like you said, just the way they had pasted out, the way they had had the matches lined up, it was just
00:18:23
Speaker
match after match after match and even on the worst match of this night is still an amazing match like nothing there's there's no like down spots on this whole card well like I said I think the first couple matches I didn't know most of the people involved I will say this I learned a thing
00:18:42
Speaker
just recently, Juice Robinson. Number one, he's a local boy here, he's from Joliet, Illinois, didn't know that. Two, Juice Robinson, when he was in NXT, was known as CJ Parker. Broke Kevin Owens' nose. Broke Kevin Owens' nose and then Kevin Owens beat him in his debut match. So he learned a thing. And he got fired for breaking Kevin Owens' nose.
00:19:03
Speaker
Well, what do you know? He went over to New Japan and became great. Like when he was CJ Parker and NXT, he did very little for me. And I don't know what changed between there. I mean, well, he doesn't have the hippie gimmick anymore. So that's good. But he's a very, very good wrestler.
00:19:23
Speaker
yeah unlike you said there wasn't anything on the show that was bad so i mean like i like i think i think if you're a new japan uh regular i mean this was everything like i said just for me just not being familiar with you know the first couple matches like but everything from there i mean like i said it was a crescendo everything just kept building and nothing felt out of place and like i like i said a moment ago
00:19:50
Speaker
All of the big names outside of WWE basically went over. They gave you everything. I mean, they, they, they, I don't know. There was a point about halfway through the pay-per-view where I was like, oh, this is gonna be like, this is what the show's gonna be. And I had predicted the result of the main event and I was very happy with my prediction, so.
00:20:16
Speaker
Oh, isn't it weird, though, that New Japan, they have this big pay-per-view and now only, what, everything but two belts are on Westerners?
00:20:27
Speaker
Well, that's
Chris Jericho's Influence on New Japan
00:20:28
Speaker
one other thing I meant to bring up, but the thing is, I didn't know when the right time to do it was because we haven't talked about the matches and the results. But yeah, I mean, you end up, by the end of the show, you know, the young bucks walk out with the tag titles, Jericho walks out with the Intercontinental title, Kenny Omega walks out with the IWGP championship, and well, fuck, even if you want to go to Michael Elgin winning the Never Open Weight Championship. Which that dude got fucking jacked.
00:20:57
Speaker
How does everybody feel about it? Is that, he's still a controversial figure? Like is that like a thing that I can be like, oh, still fuck Big Mike Elgin? I think so. But it's a thing where he's only in Japan now. As far as I know, he's not even wrestling over here anywhere. Like he's just over there and clearly doing well. Was he banished?
00:21:18
Speaker
He was a little bit banished. I wasn't a fan of Big Mike prior to the allegations or the texts and everything. So losing him wasn't a big loss for me. It still feels weird though that the second biggest promotion in the world has a belt on him.
00:21:36
Speaker
So I guess since you brought this up about like Westerners walking out with all the belts, do you feel like this is them turning over a new leaf? I mean, not in a bad way, but like I said, a new chapter for New Japan where basically they just went with it and they said, here's the guys that everybody knows about and we're shoving those guys into the spotlight and
00:21:58
Speaker
I mean, that takes their company to a whole other level, too, and one night basically hand all the biggest stars outside WWE that kind of victory. Like, across the board. I mean, Jericho, fuck, I mean, even if you look outside of the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega, the Bullet Club,
00:22:16
Speaker
Cody and Hangman and Marty all had a win. I mean- Over some big fucking names, too. Yeah. Like,
Omega vs. Okada Match Analysis
00:22:24
Speaker
I mean, it was just a show where they literally, even with heels, they gave you everything you wanted to see. Is that fair to say? It is. And we're not using... I feel like as a wrestling fan, or maybe it's just if you're a WWE fan, it feels so foreign to get something that makes you happy out of a show.
00:22:44
Speaker
Well, not just getting something that makes you happy, and this is something we've discussed on other podcasts, but even when you get something that makes you happy, there's usually either something else on the show that kind of balances it, or there's a catch, and there were no catches on the show. There was no, yeah, but this happened. It was just like, boom, you wanted to see this, boom, you wanted to see this, and it just continued that way all the way to the main event, and then even after the main event.
00:23:11
Speaker
And so if you want to just jump into some of these matches and just talk about your favorite parts and results and I don't know man, this was great. Like I had an amazing time with the show.
00:23:23
Speaker
I mean, I'm going to jump to the middle of the car. I mean, we're going to jump all over, probably talking about this thing. But I think so the Young Bucks, this was their first time competing for the heavyweight tag team championship. And like you said, with these shows, they always have kind of an order of importance with the belts. So this was one of the first times we didn't have to watch the Young Bucks open the show with the junior heavyweight tag team.
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah, as somebody who's not like super big on New Japan, to me, it's bizarre that they even separate like the tag that like, you know what I mean? Like by having tag belts for heavyweights and light heavyweights. So yeah, I mean, obviously, and this is a big deal for them getting bumped up to like the full fledged tag team championship in New Japan with no catch.
00:24:13
Speaker
because I feel like the Young Bucks, I mean, they're obviously super over all over the world, but I feel like in Japan, they were never quite, they weren't quite as over as they are here. And I think by bumping them up to the heavyweight tag team division, especially putting them against Evil and Sonata, you know, just having them against the biggest, if not, you know, the second biggest faction in New Japan, or, I mean, well, there's several, there's Chaos, LIJ,
00:24:42
Speaker
Bullet Club, but you know getting them against people that you know the Japanese audience and just everyone loves right now Yeah, Lij are fucking awesome And I and their match with them was was amazing because it was just good old-fashioned pro wrestling storytelling where
00:25:00
Speaker
They built so much of the match around the young bucks not being able to hit the melter driver because of the back issues that Matt had and the leg injury. Like Nick goes to kick one of them and accidentally kicks the pole and then is working the rest of the match with a hurt foot? Yeah. Which disabled the foot and then you can't have a super kick party.
00:25:23
Speaker
Right. But I mean, like it was just, it was just classic storytelling and it works and it was a great freaking match. And man, and like you said, I do think LIJ is the second biggest faction over there. So I don't know, man, like it, it just, I mean, obviously we're jumping to the middle of the card, but as far, I mean, this is like a, I want to say like, uh, is this a, would you call this the crowning achievement of the young bucks so far in their careers winning these tag titles?
00:25:52
Speaker
I would say easily. I think these are the most prestigious tag titles they've held thus far. I mean, not that Ring of Honors don't mean anything. Like, you know, that's awesome. But this is the second biggest promotion in the world. Like, this is pretty much as big as it can get for them without being in WWE.
00:26:11
Speaker
For sure. And like when we were talking about, you know, the new president and everything and putting the belts on all these, all the Westerners, do you think that has part to do with them trying to expand and make this bigger?
00:26:24
Speaker
So yeah, this is something we definitely have to talk about. And if if we're going to address what you said earlier about them, the president not wanting to change anything, he's just there to make New Japan the best thing it can be. I think part of that, yeah, is putting the belt.
00:26:41
Speaker
or putting all the belts on guys that, you know, Westerners can identify, um, people that they know. But I also like, and this isn't the knock on New Japan, it's just the name of the game. I mean, you do have to watch their product at essentially two in the morning on a laptop. But I think a step in the right direction is at least getting their championships and getting the names out there that people know.
00:27:02
Speaker
Um, here. So, I mean, it did, I mean, whether it was there to, they're, you know, playing to the, you know, the North continent of North America or, or what it is, but to me it's affected. It was the right call. Like I don't have a criticism of that. And somebody who's a casual new Japan fan, this sucked me right in. Like if there was ever a time to go from, you know, casual new Japan observer to holy shit, like they're making a push, then, then this would be it.
00:27:29
Speaker
I can't imagine coming into the New Japan scene at a better time period.
00:27:34
Speaker
No, and this is I think this is a really good way because they put the belts on people that you know, like, you know, Westerners know like recognizable names. And I feel like putting the belts on them is going to get, you know, people are going to start watching to see the young books or start to watch to see Kenny Omega. And when you see Omega going against Okada or see Jericho going against Nido, you know, a lot of people are going to be getting introduced to these wrestlers for the first time. But but I think
00:28:02
Speaker
It's not enough just to say Westerners, I think we specifically have to talk about Jericho here for a minute in his match against Naito. A guy who is primarily associated with WWE,
Speculations on Golden Elite and Bullet Club
00:28:14
Speaker
and who has just in the last year experimented outside of WWE with New Japan, is now their Intercontinental Champion.
00:28:22
Speaker
Which, how do you think Vince McMahon feels about that? See, I don't know. Do you think Jericho gave him the heads up on this? I mean, if Vince didn't like it, he could offer Jericho a deal.
00:28:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like if he really, he can't complain and say, well, I don't want you doing stuff outside WWE, but I'm also not going to give you, you know, the opportunities that you want. I mean, Jericho doesn't want to be WWE 24 seven three 65 anyway, but he's doing Fozzy. He's doing, you know, his podcast. He's, I mean, right now where WWE, I mean, in my opinion, this, I mean, this is slipping right now.
00:29:03
Speaker
We're gonna try not to talk about how bad WWE is doing We're gonna be positive and talk about how great new Japan is but to me this is your point. This is Chris Jericho, you know He's doing the Gretzky thing. He's not going where the puck was he's going where the pucks going
00:29:18
Speaker
Is that what you think is going on with, do you think that's how Jericho views it? I mean, I think at this point in his career, he's just having fun and kind of doing what he wants. But I also think where he's choosing to go is keeping him incredibly relevant with hardcore wrestling fans.
00:29:36
Speaker
For sure. I think that's absolutely the case. But you know, he's at a point now. What's so cool about this is he doesn't need that belt. I mean, you know what I mean? Like he's just adding a whole other level of prestige to their intercontinental title.
00:29:51
Speaker
which already the Intercontinental title in New Japan is far more prestigious than say WWE is like they really build up the Intercontinental title as I mean, you know, it's a second heavyweight championship, essentially. Yeah. And well, top guys hold that belt. But I think one of the things we also have to talk about with the rest of this card, specifically with the Jericho match.
00:30:18
Speaker
All of the matches on this card felt different. There wasn't like a clone match. You know, there wasn't like a match like, you know, sometimes you'll see with WWE, they'll have two women's tag team matches on the same card. There's two different brands, or they'll have like, you know, two fatal four ways, you know, one from each brand. Every match on this show was different and unique and had a different pacing and a different style to it. So there was something different.
00:30:43
Speaker
you know throughout the show nothing nothing got boring i just and for guys that do big spots a lot you didn't see a lot of repeat spots people kind of figure out ways to do things that no one else is doing on that show so every match feels fresh correct that's i think that's what i was trying to say yeah but
00:31:06
Speaker
I mean, even the way that the Jericho Nido match started, it started like a rough, like it started like a brawl. It didn't start as a wrestling match. He comes out and beats the living piss out of Nido while Nido is still wearing his suit. Gets blood all over the suit. I mean, gives him the hardest fucking pile driver I've ever seen onto one of those Japanese tables.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, didn't we surprisingly didn't break just hearing everything apart beats the just the fuck out of him throws night Oh back in the ring red shoes does not hesitate to ring that Bell You know what's funny though when I when I saw him come out wearing the fedora I had a flashback to the festival of friendship just for a moment I Was hoping he would take it off and do a little spin with it and then of course we got a we got Jarrah crow and
00:31:57
Speaker
Yes, Jericho painted like the crow that guy Can literally make anything over I think he said I watched an interview last night where whoever he was talking to Jericho was drinking So he's drunk in the interview
Preview of G1 Climax Event
00:32:11
Speaker
and he's just like yeah, man He's like I don't think anyone's ever had a career like mine where I can just get anything over He's like I got a turtle over in a video. I didn't plant over
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, and this was, I mean, I, I think the only match like of the, of the big matches they were advertising that I kind of guessed incorrectly, I really didn't think the young bucks were going to win the tag titles, especially when they, you know, had, you know, planted the idea that they weren't able to do the super kick party or they couldn't hit the melter driver about halfway through that match. I was like, uh, they're giving them an excuse for why they can't beat LIJ.
00:32:47
Speaker
Uh, but no, they ended up coming out with those, uh, tag belts. And then, you know, I, I actually believed, I think you and I had talked about this. There was no way that we thought that they were going to have Jericho lose two matches in a row, but we were right. And it was awesome. And Jericho beats Naito and fuck, I guess we'll have to see.
00:33:04
Speaker
where we go from here this was actually something we talked about in the last episode of the podcast we couldn't get too far ahead of ourselves looking to g1 or to all-in because we had to get through dominion and boy oh boy a bunch of shit changed at dominion oh yeah everything changed and it's a thing where a lot changed and there's still big matches to go before all-in
00:33:26
Speaker
For sure. I don't know where some of this is going to go. I mean, does Naito have a rematch with Jericho or is Naito's next thing going after Kenny Omega and then you have Omega Naito for a heavyweight championship match at some point?
00:33:45
Speaker
That would make sense down the road. I mean, it'll be interesting to see who Jericho ends up dropping the Intercontinental title back to. You know, who's he going to lose it to and when? Is he going to have like a decent, like a decent length run or is it going to be a short thing? So, see, I was still thinking that he was going to show up at the cow palace, but I don't know. I'm hearing that his handshake deal with vents is that he wouldn't wrestle with New Japan on American soil.
00:34:13
Speaker
But I don't know, I listened to an interview and he said that at this point, he said he's getting paid more than he's ever been paid in his career for the fewest amount of matches. And- Probably feels nice,
Exploring CM Punk's Wrestling Career
00:34:25
Speaker
Lesnar. Yeah, I'm sure that feels great because he can still go be Rockstar Jericho and then come in and give just these fucking incredible matches that I feel like we love Jericho in WWE, but I feel like these are different matches than he was having over there.
00:34:41
Speaker
these are yeah he's he's exploring a whole other side of his wrestling personality in New Japan which is exciting to see because at this point he's been around so long you feel like you've seen everything but if there's one person in wrestling who's like the master of reinventing himself it's Jericho
00:34:55
Speaker
Cause the thing is, he could go back to WWE tomorrow and be doing the list stuff and we're gonna still love him. But when he goes to New Japan, his character is essentially a fucking psychopath. He seems a borderline racist too. Like he refers to the people in Japan as animals. He takes every opportunity he can to grab a camera and flip people off with it. I love that he pretends that he's miserable there.
00:35:23
Speaker
He is loving being a heel over in Japan for sure. For sure. For sure. Oh, and then so I mean, just to go back a match before the Jericho Nido, we had Osprey versus Takahashi for the junior heavyweight championship. And holy shit. Yeah, we don't really want to leave this one out of our discussion because holy shit, this you could argue this was
00:35:48
Speaker
You could argue this was match of the night, probably second best match of the night, but man, this was a lot of fucking fun and this was rough. It was so rough. It was actually, when I went back to rewatch the pay-per-view, that was the first match I rewatched.
00:36:04
Speaker
Oh, you started with that one? I actually start, I mean, I went back and watched the others, but after it was over, that was the first match that obviously, we'll get to Omega Okada, but that match just really stuck with me. Takahashi is just fucking crushing it right now on being just a charismatic, fun dude to watch. Yeah. And Will Ospreay, I mean, one of the kings of flippy shit. Like, you're gonna, there's few people that are better at flippy shit than Will Ospreay.
00:36:33
Speaker
I also think it was smart booking, and this is stuff that people, I don't know if they think about. If LIJ in the same night is losing the tag titles and the intercontinental title, then I'm glad that they're getting that one back.
00:36:48
Speaker
So the stable still has a belt to work with. They still have somebody, you know, that's relevant. You run the risk of booking a show exactly like Super Card of Honor this last year, where that crowd was so hot, they were so ready to see Bullet Club. A lot of them seen, I assume seen Bullet Club for the first time, you know, like getting to see Kenny for the first time, because that's a that's a rare person to actually get to see wrestle. And it was a whole night of all their favorite people losing.
00:37:18
Speaker
Right. And this was kind of the reverse of that. Yeah. And it still leaves a belt on L.I.J. Makes people happy there. I mean, people love Osprey as well. But I think right now Takahashi is just after that best of the super juniors. He's the fucking man. Sure. Yeah, for sure. Hey, man, what about we got to talk about it? Okada. Omega. Jesus. I mean,
00:37:48
Speaker
I loved that with the two out of three falls, each fall got the appropriate amount of time to build to it. And then what, they had two minutes to recover? Yeah, that I enjoy that they give them a water break.
00:38:00
Speaker
Because these guys, I mean, even though it did start out slow, kind of the New Japan style where it was a build, but once it got built, I mean, they were beating the shit out of each other for how long did this match go? I mean, was it an hour 15 or something like that? It was a long one. It was a kid's movie length. But it did not feel like that. I mean, everything was exciting.
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah, and Okada gets the first fall with a, what was that, a roll-up or a small package there? Yeah, it was just like a really quick roll-up and he got him. Yeah, which adds to the drama of, oh fuck, Okada's already up, one nothing. And I mean, even that crowd at this point, because, you know, Okada, how many days did they say he held the title at this point, like 700 and something?
00:38:50
Speaker
Yeah, may as well have been a billion years. I mean, 700 days in wrestling for real, like when you're getting to watch as much wrestling is, you know, put out. That's a long time to watch one dude be champ. And this and this match had been, you know, I mean, this is why like we had talked about this, which is that if Omega was going to win it, this was the time.
00:39:14
Speaker
I mean, Okada had had the title for a long time. There wasn't anybody else feasibly that he needed to beat to cement his reign and his legacy. And it was Omega's time. He's at the peak of his popularity right now.
00:39:30
Speaker
And they delivered. They delivered an hour plus fucking two out of three falls masterpiece. I mean, would you say at this point, their series of four matches is going to go down as the greatest series of wrestling matches to exist at this point?
00:39:47
Speaker
I don't know. That's hard to say. I mean, that's obviously subjective, but I mean, if you look at these four matches and just the build of this and how long the matches were, how exciting they were, just how over both guys were throughout the matches, it's just I don't even know what to compare these two.
00:40:07
Speaker
I mean, the hope the hope is is that these matches because I mean, there's in terms of popularity, it's hard for there's not as many eyes on the New Japan product. So it's hard to stack them up to some of the other rivalries throughout history. It's its own thing and it has to get measured on its own merit. But I do think that you could argue that that main event at Dominion is kind of the foundation that they're going to build if they are going to get bigger.
00:40:34
Speaker
Like, I mean, that that's a classic. That's going to be one of their classic rivalries that they as always referenced. And that's what things will always get compared to is the Okado mega series. Like that's going to be somebody's Austin Rock. I think I think in the new Japan world, it's absolutely that like and maybe nothing comes nearly as close to that. And I think people I think casual wrestling fans
00:41:01
Speaker
heard about Dominion. Even if you weren't following New Japan, I'm sure it came across your radar in this past week. And that's a big deal. Like I said, that could be the foundation for something new and big for them. Maybe they get a little bit bigger. Maybe they start doing more shows over here in the States. Maybe they change the times at which they do stuff. I feel like that would be unfair to the people that actually live there, though.
00:41:30
Speaker
It would be, but if they're hoping to expand, it's kind of inevitable. It's the only thing. They would never get big if they stayed at two o'clock in the morning all the time. Maybe move the show to the middle of the afternoon for them so that it's a little more reasonable for us, or maybe we're staying up a little later than normal to watch it or something.
00:41:53
Speaker
It's possible. They may work around. I mean, I get what you're saying. You totally don't want to turn your back on the purists and everything. But if they've already got the Japan market money and they're wanting to delve into getting a little bit more international, they're going to have to do something.
00:42:10
Speaker
Well, and it's like even at the end of the match, after Kenny won, he Kenny always cuts a promo and he speaks Japanese. So he cuts the promo in Japanese. And then after he's done, he says, but don't forget, we are a worldwide company. So I probably should say something in English. Right.
00:42:28
Speaker
I thought that and I took note of that. That was important. And so but yeah, it is important. Fucking Kenny Omega hits the one winged Angel, Penzo Kata. Huge fucking moment. It felt like a huge fucking moment. And what made it even better, man? Oh, my God. The young bucks came out. And they all hugged.
00:42:49
Speaker
with Ibushi.
00:43:04
Speaker
I mean, spot on storytelling. Because I was so worried that something bad was going to happen. So to actually get a pay-per-view that ends with not only a great match, but a feel good moment. Yeah, absolutely. With him doing a promo about how they're set, they're out to change the world. Which means they're okay.
00:43:27
Speaker
Well, I don't know if Bullet Club is fine. Well, we'll see how Bullet Club is doing. And I don't want to forget about that because one of the things that got lost in all this, I mean, obviously, again, if we're going to, you know, put a put a stamp on it.
00:43:42
Speaker
Great fucking show, great fucking main event, and then great finish to the show. Cody tries to come out for a moment to do something, ends up turning around and going back to the locker room, but then you find out on the newest being the Elite that apparently Cody was in the process of trying to apologize to Kenny Omega and make things better.
00:44:00
Speaker
and I believe wasn't he uh what they had playing while you see him in the process of writing like a love letter to Kenny isn't he um just speaking the song hurt yeah like it was it was pretty funny but I actually thought it was well done too like I
00:44:21
Speaker
That's a good bit of storytelling there, which I mean, it sets the idea that he was willing to make up and then he something something made him change his mind. So the note said to the true leader of the bullet club. But he crumpled it up, threw it on the ground. He couldn't do it, but he was contemplating it. So there's there's some there's some conflict there.
00:44:42
Speaker
So what do you think? Does this mean that Golden Elite is like going to be part of the Bullet Club? Or do you think this means that the Bucks and Kenny are out of it and now Cody is going to be the leader of like the heel Bullet Club with Marty and Hangman? Well, you had predicted this a while back and I think you're right. I think there's going to be the Golden Elite. That's a faction.
00:45:04
Speaker
And I think that is a faction of four fucking top guys. Well, see, here's the thing. As a guy who doesn't really give a shit about Ibushi too much other than his relationship to Kenny Omega. I mean, I don't know if it's as huge as the original Elite or the Bullet Club from like a year ago.
00:45:23
Speaker
But, I mean, this new, like, babyface incarnation of the Elite with Ibushi, I mean, like you said, it was a feel-good reunion. Like, it's a good group of guys right now to be the antithesis to what has become the evil Bullet Club led by Cody. And it'll be interesting to see, since the Golden Elite have four members, it'll be interesting to see if the Bullet Club inducts one more member. Could it be Flip? Could it be Flip? What if it's Jericho?
00:45:53
Speaker
Oh, well, actually that could be because right now their top two titles are held by dudes from Winnipeg.
00:46:03
Speaker
Right? Right. But fucking Dominion 2018, man. That was OK. So having watched this whole pay-per-view does as somebody who, you know, hadn't really watched a lot of New Japan, did this suck you in a little bit where you're interested to see where these stories are going? Are you going to continue with them or like maybe check out matches here and there or what are you thinking?
00:46:27
Speaker
I mean, I'm definitely gonna try to follow along a little bit more. My one concern is, and this isn't a knock on Dominion, I guess it's just...
00:46:36
Speaker
It's hard to imagine how they can top this pay-per-view because they gave you everything. If WWE were to book a pay-per-view where Lesnar retires and Roman Reigns gets beat and Finn Balor beats, if every dream scenario you could think of plays out, that would be the WWE's version of Dominion.
00:46:58
Speaker
So it'll be interesting to see where they go from here where they basically gave us everything that we wanted in one show. But the one thing I'll say about New Japan and I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt and the credit for this is that I have all the confidence in the world with how they book things and how they write.
00:47:15
Speaker
that they will, even if it doesn't top Dominion, that it will be worth tuning in for, future shows. Because it's a thing at least that regardless of what show you're tuning into, you're still seeing exciting end ring work. Yeah, I mean you're gonna see great matches. I mean that's, and I think that's...
00:47:33
Speaker
Again, don't want to sit here and talk about WWE. We could sit here and do the pros and cons of or the black and the white, the difference between the two companies, which is night and day. New Japan presents itself like it's like a shoot. Like it's an athletic competition. They're out here to have matches and see who's the best. And WWE is a show.
00:47:56
Speaker
There's more bits in the backstage area, which I mean it just depends on what you're into and I I don't think New Japan is necessarily competing directly with WWE I think they're just creating a whole new thing It is it's it really is just I mean we keep you know saying like different flavors of ice cream But it really is just a completely different show I mean the style of matches your WWE is more focused on storytelling and you know jokes and fun like fun and
00:48:25
Speaker
And this, like you said, this feels like you're watching shoot fights. Right. I mean, it's old pro wrestling is what it feels like, so.
00:48:35
Speaker
No, if the question is, am I going to keep an eye on New Japan going forward? Absolutely, because it's fucking, it's huge right now. And like, hey, they got me hooked, they got all the Westerners, and I'm a Westerner, so I'm obligated to pay attention now. Okay, I was talking to a couple people, and they said the thing that keeps them away from Ring of Honor in New Japan, they're like, the matches are fine, but visually the presentation isn't as pleasing as WWE.
00:49:05
Speaker
And I don't disagree. I completely disagree. But again, it's a taste thing. Okay, expand on that. What do you mean by what do you disagree with?
00:49:17
Speaker
I don't know if I've told this to you on the podcast before, or I don't know if I've told you this just when we've talked in person or on the phone. I just, there's something about, like I associate pro wrestling with sort of a grittier environment, even going back to like Rawls war, you know, on standard definition television back in the mid to late nineties where
00:49:37
Speaker
the quality was a little bit like it felt like the screen was a little smoky and they just kind of had black curtains and one titan tron and maybe a couple banners but the focus was mainly on the stuff in the ring and it just feels like with modern wwe everything's in hd everything's well lit everything's colorful everything there's led boards everywhere it's bright it's it's shiny
00:50:00
Speaker
And sometimes I think less is more. And I think in the case of pro wrestling, I think less is more really stands out. And I love how it feels. I mean, it's kind of the way you would see like like a boxing fight late at night on TV, the way the New Japan presents their their arena or their setup. And I appreciate it. Somebody else can probably sit there and tell me all the million different ways that the well lit, colorful HD version is better.
00:50:28
Speaker
visually, but I think for the purposes of pro wrestling, it's like a horror movie. I like it to be a little dirty, a little darker. Well, and I feel like New Japan looks more like a sporting event where WWE looks like a TV show.
00:50:44
Speaker
That's a great way of putting it. That is the difference. Yeah, and there is a big difference. Like you said, I think not having it in, I mean, not that it's not clear or anything. It's just, you know, it's shot on a different style of cameras. It's not super colorful. You kind of, the main show is the fighting. You're there to see these matches. That is the main story.
00:51:06
Speaker
They bring the house lights down on the crowd. The focus is on what's going on in the ring. And I just as somebody and I had said this before I watched Dominion and before I watched New Japan.
00:51:18
Speaker
I like the way they do things and I wish, I mean, I guess NXT does that a little bit, but no, I mean, I love how they present things. And so I get if you're conditioned to wanting everything in HD and everything to be the way WWE does it, that's your cup of tea. But as somebody who happens to have a podcast where I get to express my opinion and tell you, fuck you, I like the gritty style better.
00:51:44
Speaker
It's kind of like, you know, if you pick just like a shitty random comedy, like Dinner for Schmucks. Not a very good movie, but it was shot in HD. Then you've got a movie like Clerks that was shot in black and white looks like shit. Much funnier, you know? It doesn't have to be pretty to be great. So, I mean, and especially with us going to All In, yes, I'm gonna be paying attention and seeing where everything leads. It'll be interesting to see if
00:52:13
Speaker
Who's holding what belts come September? Well, and before September for all in, we have, well, we're going to have the whole G1 going on for, you know, a while, because it's a tournament. But one of those dates does land in the United States. It's going to be in San Francisco at the Cow Palace. And we received a tweet from somebody, but they already deleted it, couldn't find their name. I believe the tweet said something along the lines of, will you butt munches talk about the G1 card?
00:52:43
Speaker
And then in parentheses said, like, I am not a butt munch. I'm not mad about that. If you want to call us butt munch, that's fine. Thanks for listening. It's like, it's like, hey, I'm a little aggressive, but just so you know, I'm listening.
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah, call us butt munches, but leave us a five star review and enter our contest for all in tickets. Do that. So everybody wins. So they did start announcing matches for the G1 in San Francisco. Main event Kenny Omega going in as champ against Cody Rhodes. Heavyweight Championship match.
00:53:15
Speaker
So we're gonna get Kenny Cody too, and I assume get, you know, a very clean outcome rather than the kind of fuck finish we got. Fuckery of the last one. Then we have Jay White putting the US title up against Juice Robinson. Then let's see, we have Evil and Sonata having a rematch against the Young Bucks for the heavyweight tag team championship. And that makes sense.
00:53:40
Speaker
Then we have Chaos against LIJ, so they're going to have Okada and Osprey against Bushi and Naito. You're going to be getting a hell of a show at the Cow Palace, my friend. What's crazy is, so when you hear those four matches, does that sound exciting to you? Does that little bit of blood rushes to your penis when you hear that?
00:54:00
Speaker
Yes. The internet disagrees. Really? The internet, because wrestling fans are never happy, there is a lot of bitching about these matches and a lot of people saying, oh great, it's a house show.
00:54:14
Speaker
What's wrong? I thought house shows have great shit on them. Like I'm confused. So is that even an insult? I think people feel like they're getting, they're like, well, obviously Cody's not going to beat Kenny. And they, I think they think like we're just getting these rematches. Like I feel like they're worried that it's going to be like a WWE house show. And I could see that, but you know, what if they stick it up your ass and they have Cody beat Kenny?
00:54:38
Speaker
They could, and they could have some fuckery where the other Bullet Club members come out and this is where all this shit goes down. It's a civil war, man. How do we know they're not using this on, like on American soil to start a civil war? And keep in mind, this show is going to be broadcast live in the United States on American television. And do you know what that channel is doing the entire day leading up to this show? Yeah. They're having a new Japan marathon called Bullet Club is Fine hosted by Cody and the Bucks.
00:55:09
Speaker
So if they're not going to go out of their way to get this much attention and this many eyes on the product, they're not going to do something with it. Yeah, I think at the very least, like we don't even know what matches are going to be part of the tournament at this. And those matches are always great because it's an important tournament. This is a big show every year. It's a big series of matches. I think they're having this huge show, their biggest show they've done in the US at this point. I don't think they're going to treat this like a house show.
00:55:36
Speaker
You know, they're gonna try and treat this like a pretty big show and impress the American audience.
00:55:41
Speaker
Just give it some time. People will warm up to it, and we'll see how they book it. Yeah, I just- I don't think you have anything to worry about. Oh, I'm not worried at all. I just- Right now is an exciting time to be a wrestling fan. There's just so much cool shit happening, uh, just all over the board. And I- I couldn't be more fucking excited right now. It's- it's nice to come onto this show and be excited about a thing that's happening. It's not like, you know, having to review Backlash.
00:56:07
Speaker
and we're back to being positive again. And hey, fuck, we have a whole other subject here to talk about, and I think in honor of Kenny Omega and Okada's epically long match, I think we do a little overtime today. What do you say? Yeah, I don't mind if we go a little long on this one. I gave myself some homework. I missed the entire CM Punk era of wrestling. I kind of pieced out during that point. That would have been, what, like end of high school to the end of college?
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah, I first started hearing about Punk when I was in high school, I think in like 2004? That's when I first started hearing his name floated around, especially since he's from the area. Yeah, and you know, I had heard of him, obviously, just in passing, and when he was in WWE, heard his name a lot, but wasn't watching the show.
00:56:55
Speaker
So I kind of came back around the time of the pipe bomb or at least the pipe bomb got shared so much on social media that it kind of brought my eyes back to wrestling. But I think it was unavoidable. I think I think a lot of people would share that story with you. And the truth is.
00:57:11
Speaker
I mean it's not that Punk wasn't doing good stuff before the pipe bomb, it's just that like when he finally got the eyes on him, I mean he stepped up his game and he was at his best after that point. He did some great stuff with the Straight Edge Society before that. I wasn't even like a big fan, like I would go out of my way to say I really didn't give a shit about CM Punk and tell the pipe bomb.
00:57:35
Speaker
So I mean, I guess I'm a little bit of a bandwagoner in that sense. Although it's not like I'm a huge CM Punk fan. Followed his career. A lot of people asked this question. What made you decide that this was the topic you wanted to talk about this week? Like what inspired you? Was it his fight that he had this past weekend that he lost in UFC? Well, a big part of it is, you know, there's a lot of talk of he keeps saying he's done wrestling. He's not going to be at all in everything.
00:58:02
Speaker
But it leaves everybody questioning still, like, is he working us? Is he gonna show up day of and we're gonna see CM Punk? And it felt like I shouldn't be excited about that until I go back and kind of, you know, read the history books and kind of see from the beginning where this guy started up until where he ended up.
00:58:24
Speaker
so what was this like for you as having never watched a bunch of punk stuff kind of given the current climate especially like I said he just had a fight his name keeps getting brought up you know in relation to all in whether or not he'll be there who knows we've talked about him like lately money in the bank's coming up
00:58:44
Speaker
In Chicago, which is in the pay-per-view where he walked out with the WWE Championship, you watched that match. Yeah, you gave me a list of stuff. I pulled some stuff that like listener suggestions as well. And I mean, if we're just to get into the WWE stuff real quick, there was one match in particular that I was like, OK, this guy has every right to be pissed off in a lot of this. And the match that did that for me was his match against Daniel Bryan. What was that pay-per-view? It was like 2012 over the limit.
00:59:14
Speaker
Yeah. That pay-per-view's dead, right? That had to have been a short-lived name. I think they did it for a few years. If I recall, maybe, no, I think it was Extreme Rules. Over the limit, yeah, I think it only lasted a couple years, but yeah, over the limit against Daniel Bryan, I mean, if I told you Sam Punk, Daniel Bryan, tomorrow, you would be excited as piss about that. I mean, obviously, because Punk's coming back, but just two names that are associated with good wrestling matches.
00:59:44
Speaker
Of the WWE matches, I watched of his. So I'll just go ahead and list the ones that I plan on watching more because I want to absorb as much as possible. But I watched a couple very long matches of his, which cut out the time I had to watch more of the WWE stuff. But I watched him and Jericho. At which pay per view would that have been mania, right? Yeah, it was WrestleMania. I watched his mania match with taker 28.
01:00:09
Speaker
I watched his match against Daniel Bryan, and then I watched the John Cena match at Money in the Bank. I'd say that's a pretty good four to start with. Okay, and probably my favorite, because there were definitely a lot I liked in each match. I really liked the Daniel Bryan match. And he put on this amazing match, and it was second to last match of the card.
01:00:38
Speaker
And he put on this, the two of those guys put on this crazy fucking match. It ends up with Punk kind of stealing a win. And he's super over in that room. Daniel Bryan was super over. The next match they brought out after them was Brodus Clay. But the main event of that night,
01:00:57
Speaker
was John Cena versus John Laurinitis. And I can't imagine, they ended a show that had this fucking awesome match, the great actual pro wrestling match, and ended the show with a comedy match. Now was the Daniel Bryan match, that was for the WWE Championship, right? Correct, and it was one where, so, fuck, I'm trying to remember how it ended. Daniel Bryan had Punk and the Yes Lock,
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. And what the fuck happened? He thought Punk tapped. Oh no, Daniel Bryan's shoulders go down on the mat and he gets pinned. But then Punk taps, but after the match has been called.
01:01:42
Speaker
Right. So he walks out with the title and Daniel Bryan thought he won. So they both look strong. They both looked awesome in it. Punk walked out looking like a smug asshole. Great show. This is in the middle of his four hundred and thirty four day run with the title. So I mean, he's yeah. But I have to ask, what was OK? I missed all that stuff. What was going on with Laurenitis at the time? I know he's doing the people power thing. People hated him was the GM.
01:02:09
Speaker
All this had started after the pipe bomb where, you know, Punk had referenced John Lornitis in the promo and then they ended up bringing him on screen to be a character and to be like an authority figure and then, you know, he ended up having like a, you know, a feud with Punk. And I think that got moved over to he just as him being an abusive authority figure. And so he had naturally he had some run-ins with John Cena too, because he's the golden boy.
01:02:33
Speaker
And this was just a pay-per-view example of there was such a sentiment that when Punk was WWE champion for those 434 days, I can't remember if it was every pay-per-view, but it was most of the pay-per-views during the time where he was champion, they wouldn't let him be the main event. He was not the last match.
01:02:53
Speaker
And watching this match just made me kind of feel like, oh, this is never going to change. Some bullshit like this is always going to end the show. Did it feel way too eerily familiar to Samoa Joe versus Roman Reigns? Yes. Like the whole time, I'm just like, this seems like something if I had been following the product in 2012, that this would have pissed me off.
01:03:17
Speaker
However, that match had me laughing so hard the whole time because John Cena is beating the apps.
01:03:28
Speaker
There's a couple spots in that where he legit hurts John Lornitis. There's a moment where he's like slamming him on the table or something. It's getting kind of fucked up. He goes to roll him in the ring and throws him head first into the hardest part of the ring.
01:03:49
Speaker
You know what's funny though is Lornitis used to wrestle. I know he did, but not like this old man version of John Lornitis. It was like he was using him as a battering ram and trying to move the ring. And there was a look on John Cena's face like, oopsie daisy smashed him head first into the ring. Well, so it's this fucked up comedy match. This is main eventing.
01:04:15
Speaker
after this awesome pro wrestling match. And that's WWE in a nutshell. It really is. Like I watched Sia Puck and Daniel Bryan tear the house down and the show ends with a match of John Cena giving John Lornight his belly slaps. And some things never change. All right. I could talk about that match all night because that that actually might be my favorite match I've seen this year. Did you happen to we've talked about it a whole bunch so far. Did you did you rewatch the pipe bomb promo?
01:04:45
Speaker
Had watched it not long ago sure that's one that all pop like if I need a feel-good thing and just to see somebody like if you're ever Mad at your job, and you're just like I wish I could do this like I want That's that's what I watch where I'm just like fuck. I want to go in and just be like you're all assholes I think I think that's actually like a like that should be if there was like a pro wrestling like class Because that promo is a work
01:05:11
Speaker
Like, that's a guy taking and pressing all the right buttons, knowing exactly what people feel and what they want to hear, and doing it in a way that feels completely real to get everybody hooked. Well, and was that... Okay, I was going to ask you about this. To me, from all the matches I watched, obviously CM Punk is incredible on the microphone.
01:05:35
Speaker
And it seems like the run-in theme to his matches, the thing that makes him so exciting is that all the builds, everything that's happening feels like a worked shoot.
01:05:47
Speaker
for sure and because like even with the Jericho match like him like talking about punks like Deadbeat Dad and just talking about his family like that got pretty fucked up and that's that match I think that was the thing that made that an exciting match is that Jericho was being just such a dick
01:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would argue, and maybe people feel differently about this, but to me wrestling's at its best when you can kind of blend a little bit of real life with the story that you're telling and the fact that he's willing to go there and he knows that people get sucked in by that.
01:06:24
Speaker
Well, and they kind of replicated all of that with the Daniel Bryan stuff, like the Yes movement. That was like a much more positive version of the CM Punk stuff. It was like a much more, you know, it was like a more Disney version of that.
01:06:41
Speaker
But here's what's so interesting about that. We can't talk about CM Punk without talking about how he left. And him leaving from everything that's been reported is what caused them to finally commit to Daniel Bryan and the Yes movement for WrestleMania 30 that year.
01:06:58
Speaker
Which was, I mean the thing that really like 100% pulled me back into wrestling where I was a full time wrestling fan again. Yeah, I think for a lot of people too. But you know they were refusing, they just, they were dead set on Randy Orton against Batista.
01:07:14
Speaker
They were dead set on CM Punk vs. Triple H and I think Punk called them out on how stupid all this shit was that it wasn't what people wanted to see and he left and he quit and they fired him and Then they said fuck it. I guess we can't ignore the Daniel Bryan stuff and they went with it So and even in his podcast with Cabana he referenced the fact that if he hadn't left, you know certain people wouldn't have got what they deserved and I think he was referencing Bryan so is him or him and Daniel Bryan friends and
01:07:43
Speaker
I think they work together in the Indies, so I'm sure they're friendly. They're two that I don't really hear them talk about each other very often, and I didn't know if there was something there or if they just, you know, they're co-workers.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, I know that punk like would refer to him as dragon, you know, like like from American Dragon. Yeah. So I mean, I assume he has something more than just a working relationship with him, but I doubt they keep in touch now. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows? But we're going through the other matches, probably the biggest one being the CM Punk John Cena match at Money in the Bank.
01:08:21
Speaker
Yeah. And how do you feel like watching that start to finish? I think Meltzer gave that five stars. OK, so where I was at with it at the beginning of the match was different than at the end. For sure. The match won me over really, really hard. Because at first, as I was watching, I was kind of thinking. Is this a good match or is the crowd making this match?
01:08:45
Speaker
because very hot crowd in Chicago in front of CM Punk's hometown in a building that's just normally just loud as fuck, which is why I'm so excited to see Champa Gargano there, because I hope that building really blows the roof off for that match.
01:09:00
Speaker
Yeah. But by the end of the match, I was fully invested because I mean, I knew the outcome of that match. And there were still moments where I'm like, you might win. John Cena is going to do it. And this place is going to go for go fucking berserk. They're going to riot because it's still the WWE. And, you know, there's that long history of not winning in your hometown. Right. And I could have easily seen them being like, this is what you want. Fuck you.
01:09:30
Speaker
I think the thing that I wish for everyone, I remember watching that live, I think I watched it on a legal stream on my laptop or something, but I remember watching that live and I wish I could give everybody that experience because his contract was legitimately up.
01:09:46
Speaker
Like that, that was well known. Like he was out the door. And I think to watch that match live, not knowing how it's going to end, not knowing that he had resigned just, you know, minutes before going out, I, they made him look so good in that match, letting him hang and go toe to toe with John Cena on potentially his last night in his hometown where they're there. I mean, he's the baby face in that match.
01:10:13
Speaker
Um, it is a really fucking great match. And the way they, you know, I think at one point, doesn't Cena give him like an attitude adjustment off the top rope or something and he kicks out of it? Maybe, maybe I'm remembering. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of towards the end of that match. It just kind of, if I recall, I watched a shit ton of CM Punk. Uh, it's
01:10:36
Speaker
And when I say a shit ton, uh, sorry, not to get off of that match, but you recommended another one that went almost two fucking hours and I watched every second of it. I watched it beginning to end all hour and 45 minutes of that match. I am. What did you walk away thinking? Okay.
01:10:58
Speaker
So just to go IWA punk versus Chris Hero, they're in a barn in southern Indiana. Maybe there's maybe a hundred people in this place. I will say I was bored to fucking tears for like the first first while.
01:11:16
Speaker
Okay, the match it was almost like they were definitely trying to set some sort of record it was best two out of three falls with a 90-minute time limit and The I mean I was trying to time it it was somewhere around the 50-minute mark that they threw the first punch
01:11:34
Speaker
the first thing that was probably by design they probably made in their heads like we if we're gonna stretch this out this long we have to save that for later oh I understand that I knew why the whole match is just rest hold like I mean it just it felt like
01:11:48
Speaker
It would be different if I were watching Zack Sabre Jr. do holds for 40 minutes. Because he's gonna be twisting around doing some crazy shit I've never seen and they were doing a lot of really standard headlocks and things like a lot of it wasn't a very strenuous match for the first you know 40 to 50 minutes.
01:12:08
Speaker
which maybe I've never wrestled. Maybe that's way more strenuous than it looked. And I'm sure that it is. I don't want to catch help for that because like, don't get me wrong. A fucking hour and 45 minute match is a feat. But I will say that crowd was not having fun. That building was silent.
01:12:27
Speaker
and there were people yawning because there's not a lot of people in this room to begin with but let me tell you when that shit picked up at the end that shit picked up that crowd was on their feet it sounded like there were a thousand people in that room and i think the fact that they were able to just like i don't want to say they lost everyone but everyone wasn't crazy excited
01:12:51
Speaker
to be able to pull everyone back and be like, oh no, we're gonna fucking kill each other now. I mean, there was a point when Chris Hero had him on the top rope and the announcer called it a reverse power bomb, which was him jumping backwards off the top rope and giving Punk a power bomb, facing the turnbuckle. I had never seen that before. That blew my mind. Those guys were slapping the absolute shit out of each other. I was very impressed by the end.
01:13:21
Speaker
Do I think it would have been as good without that first part? No. I think if you watch this match and just skip to the last half hour, you have to really see all everything that came before it to truly appreciate how fucking crazy it got. So you're saying even though it kind of sucked, it took a long time to get into it, it's almost like a requirement to fully appreciate where they wound up at the end.
01:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's a lot at the end that you'd still be like, wow, that was nuts. But to know that they were just rolling around on the ground for nearly 50 minutes prior to that and just being in very regular choke holds and just things were like that where you're just like, this isn't going anywhere. And then when it starts going and for the match to time out.
01:14:07
Speaker
Wait, no, it ended where they penned each other. It was a double pen. The match ends with like two seconds left in the match, so then it just goes to sudden death. So now the 90-minute time limit's up. They go for another 10 minutes, 15, I don't know, somewhere in there. And it was just a crazy match that Chris Hero ends up winning. You get to watch young Chris Hero, which is fun, when he was built more like a basketball player.
01:14:33
Speaker
So today, I haven't finished this one yet, but another match that everyone had been telling me about was Samoa Joe versus CM Punk round two, or you know, their second match in Ring of Honor. That fucker goes almost two hours.
01:14:48
Speaker
I did not know about this. Yes. This match took place a year or two after that hero match. And let me tell you, I'm only like an hour fifteen into this thing so far. But those two, like they started doing the holds at the beginning and I'm like, oh, shit.
01:15:04
Speaker
here we go another one of these but then they immediately start hitting each other so it's a series of hard hits and holds and it's a good combination of the two and to know that they're going to do that for the two hours while continually building it bigger and bigger I'm all in on this one I've got like I said I've got another like 40 minutes left in it can't wait to see how that ends which got me thinking
Interest in Samoa Joe's Early Career
01:15:28
Speaker
I actually haven't seen a lot of young Samoa Joe matches and I'm wondering if he should be my next project is to go back and see his TNA stuff, check out more of his Ring of Honor stuff, just kind of see his whole career.
01:15:41
Speaker
I need to do that as well with Joe because I don't know enough of his early stuff. But I think this was a cool like I mean you give me homework assignments here here and there and punk wasn't the guy you knew too much about after watching some of his matches and getting kind of caught back up.
01:15:58
Speaker
Do you this is a weird question. Do you miss him? Do you wish that he was still around? Do you think? Eventually one day down the line He'll come back and do something like what are your like wrap up kind of how you feel about punk? Obviously people love the guy I really enjoyed the matches but a lot of it I feel like I would have enjoyed a lot more if I had been there during that time
01:16:22
Speaker
like really had to, because that's kind of like when you're watching Daniel Bryan deal with all the stuff he was dealing with, you're watching him on Raw every week getting shit on him. So you really, you're getting more of the story and you're feeling more of the frustration. Where I just sat down and watched like eight hours of Sam Punk wrestling. Great wrestler, but I feel like a lot of it, I hate saying this, part of me feels like maybe you had to be there.
01:16:50
Speaker
to really fully appreciate the story, but I do appreciate where he came from, where he got to, and just kind of seeing the stuff that would follow his matches made me understand his frustrations.
01:17:05
Speaker
You feel like he was underappreciated? For sure. And the main thing that like, I know he said that Undertaker match was great as well. And I know he said that he didn't give a shit about it. For a guy who didn't give a shit, he made it look like he gave a shit. And that says something about his ability.
01:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. And it doesn't look like he'll be wrestling or fighting anymore in UFC. So yeah, that part of his career. I mean, I guess he could go do Bellator. Yeah. And, you know, I know a lot of people are giving punk shit. You know, he tried a thing. Everybody should try a thing. If you got something you want to do, why not try it? He had the means to do it and got offered a lot of money. Not a lot of people have their first fight on fucking pay-per-view.
01:17:49
Speaker
That's a lot of pressure. Good on him and for trying. I'm not for sure. I'm not mad at punk. I don't know. I'll watch. I'll go back and keep watching some CM Punk matches and see if I watch a little more like what starts to change, because I definitely appreciate the quality of what he was doing. I appreciate his Mike skills. I think I just wasn't there for enough of it to fully. Get everything and to feel the frustration of how badly you want to see him win.
01:18:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. Some of it is you have to have been there to fully appreciate because it was time. I mean, it's week in, week out. Storylines building and he did well. He got me sucked back into wrestling for sure. The summer of punk.
Criticism of WWE and Praise for New Japan
01:18:34
Speaker
It really it really felt like it would have been like if Vince McMahon had stone cold Steve Austin, but didn't let him get over. Right.
01:18:44
Speaker
And that may be how he felt. I feel like they're at least watching it and seeing him talk and seeing the pipe bombs and seeing how the crowd was reacting. It really felt like you have the biggest guy in the world and you're not accepting that. And I think that's been a problem with them for years is that there's guys that they test, but they don't get fully behind. You know what I mean?
01:19:07
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I mean, we're still there. That happens, you know, nearly every every week. And I've kind of, you know, I haven't completely quit watching, but like I'll just more catch the highlights. And I'm never going to say I'm going to 100 percent quit watching WWE because it's I mean, it's always been there like it's been there my whole life. But it's this kind of shit that helps you to tune out for time periods when you feel like they're just not even listening to what people want.
01:19:35
Speaker
You see them, it feels like they're not trying with a lot of things, and then you watch New Japan have this amazing pay-per-view, and I feel like because of where WWE's at right now, and you know, there's always gonna be slumps. But New Japan is trying to grow at a really, really good time. I don't think they could have picked a better time to come in, and especially when, you know, I'm hearing rumors that, like, Reigns Lesnar is gonna happen again at SummerSlam, potentially.
01:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's a whole other topic, yeah. It kind of brings me down, so I'd rather watch the thing that currently makes me happy that I actually enjoy watching. I'll still check out the other stuff, and when cool shit happens, I'll always be checking back. And once it turns around, I'll come back full time watching it. For sure. Because they're not going anywhere. There's a lot of wrestling. And with this, I didn't watch this stuff so that I could watch eight hours of classic CM Punk matches.
01:20:31
Speaker
Yep. And I had a much better time doing that. So I think for a while I would rather do that than watch their current stuff. Totally. And I'm glad that you kind of got caught up with punk and kind of explored an area that you weren't familiar with. But. And is there I would I want to ask the listeners if there's somebody that you want us to delve into their career, watch a bunch of their classic matches and go over it just to see what we think of these 100 percent. And I want to I love doing it and I want to keep doing it.
01:21:02
Speaker
Give us the feedback at Wrestle Hangout on Facebook, at Wrestle Hangout on Twitter, at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram.
Listener Engagement and Personal Shoutouts
01:21:10
Speaker
Before we get out of here, I've got a couple other things I want to say. We've already gone over, but fuck it, we're going over. We have a listener of the podcast and a friend of the podcast, somebody who's supposed to be making a trip up here to Chicago this weekend with you.
01:21:26
Speaker
Our friend Dalton is having a rough time right now. Why don't you let everyone know what Dalton's kind of going through? Yeah, Dalton, he had a bit of a family emergency, sick relative. Unfortunately, he's not going to be making it out to the show with us. But, you know, positive vibes your way, buddy. You know, like I said, regardless of what happened, Kenny Omega has the heavyweight title. Just anytime you're feeling down, just think about the joy you had during that.
01:21:53
Speaker
And I think positive vibes, man, positive vibes. And we're thinking about you. Hope everything, you know, hope everything plays out a little bit better. Things get better for you and your family. So, yeah, predetermined podcast wants to give a shout out to Dalton and best wishes, man. Oh, wish you were here this weekend.
01:22:13
Speaker
Oh, I also need to give a shout out to a mutual friend of ours exchange text messages with this person today. I want to give a shout out to Bradley Bergstrand. Bradley Bergstrand is a regular listener of the podcast, despite not knowing that much about professional wrestling. He lets he put he I guess at work, he puts our podcast on just because he likes the sound of our voices. And I guess he got judged at work the other day because we were talking about something weird. And now his boss thinks that
01:22:41
Speaker
thinks different things about him than she previously did. What's funny is this is probably one of the tamer shows as of late. I feel like for a few weeks we were just really going off the rails with profanity and hypotheticals. For sure. This one was more just us gushing over really good wrestling, but that's because something awesome happened to talk about.
01:23:06
Speaker
Well, we're hoping that you like this episode. I think, you know, we've kind of retired. Say something nice is getting a little bit harder and harder to do. Maybe we should take suggestions from our listeners on a new segment that we could do during the show going forward.
Discussion on Intergender Matches
01:23:20
Speaker
What do you think? I'm fine with that. And at the beginning, I had mentioned who would I like to hang out with this week?
01:23:28
Speaker
It's not even necessarily like, this doesn't have anything to do with the wrestler's in-ring work. This just is like, when you look at that person, you're like, that's a person I would party with. That's somebody that I could sit on the couch and we'd watch Frasier for six hours, have a great time. Right now, I'm going alley cat. I'm saying, I think we'd be friends. She just looks like fun. I'm picking Jericho because he's not Tranquilo. He's fucking crazy, man.
01:23:55
Speaker
He proved it. Did you see these selling shirts that say that? You informed me of this. And I told you, I would happily buy one to support him, but I don't know if I can pull off wearing a shirt that says fucking walking around my neighborhood. Hey, I push the limits of casual Friday every day in my office. I have worn a bloodied Candace shirt. And you know what? I'm willing to wear that shirt to my job as well.
01:24:20
Speaker
Oh, we did have a listener ask us to, uh, to discuss something. Did you watch it? I did. And it made me really uncomfortable. Um, so I know that one of the buttons that you like to push in an inner gender match is that it's an inner gender match and it's uncomfortable, but this, this took it to a whole new fucking level for me.
01:24:44
Speaker
He told me, Neil, somebody that I went to Southern Underground Pro with, ran into him there, we were discussing intergender wrestling and certain things that make you uncomfortable, and he brought up an intergender wrestling match that had Asuka and Minoru Suzuki. Suzuki was on this card against Ishii, which those two motherfuckers scare me.
01:25:08
Speaker
Those are just two men who are frightening, who looks like they will just fucking kill you. And he showed me he has no bounds with what he was willing to do to Asuka in this match. Is that why she was famous coming over into North America?
01:25:25
Speaker
I don't think it was because of this match with Suzuki, but fuck did he beat the shit out of her. Like when I say beat the shit out of her, I mean, I feel like I was just shoot watching a woman get murdered.
01:25:39
Speaker
Did it make you question your interest in intergender wrestling? Oh, it definitely showed me there's right ways and wrong ways to do it. And I don't know that it's my job to say that this was wrong or I'm in any position to say that. But I watched him drag her around by her hair in a way that made me very uncomfortable. I watched him slap her in the face very hard, kick her in the head very hard. I'm sure all of this was planned and that she would, and obviously she can take it.
01:26:09
Speaker
But you got worked man, but at a certain point because it was I honest I feel bad because I don't remember the other two wrestlers they were with but it was a man and woman team on both sides and at one point Oscar's female opponent came in to try and help her and Suzuki threw his own partner out of the ring as she was trying to defend the other female wrestler and
01:26:34
Speaker
Yeah, not happening. This would never fly over here. It made me feel, let's say icky. Yeah, he felt a little dirty. I did not feel good watching it, and I feel like my mouth was open the whole match. Because what he had originally sent me was just this 60-second clip from the middle of the match. I believe it's around the 18-minute mark of this match, where it just goes off the rails.
01:27:01
Speaker
And I was like, well, I got to see what the build to that was. And there was a build. It was a normal matchup until that point. But it looks like Suzuki just snaps and goes off on her. It really felt like I was watching the bride get trained and kill Bill. I'm really glad that we're ending such a positive episode of the podcast on such a dark, disturbing note. It was fucking horrific. If you guys have a match you want me to watch, send it my way. Let us know on the social medias.
01:27:29
Speaker
God damn, like I said, I'll watch anything you send me. But that one was rough. That was that was not how I would like to see it or gender wrestling go.
Plans for Future Episodes
01:27:39
Speaker
Amen. I'm looking forward to seeing you this weekend. Oh, I cannot wait. This is going to be two two great days of pro wrestling. I hope to God you go to freelance wrestling on Friday and fill me in on what PCOs up to there.
01:27:52
Speaker
I will let you know if I'm going to go. I hope that I hope that I get this sorted out. If PCO wants five bucks for a photograph, you get your goddamn ass over there and throw him five dollars because I maybe have him chop you.
01:28:07
Speaker
No, thanks. Okay. Well, you know what? Next week, we will be back with more wrestling conversation. We're going to be hanging out further. That's what we do. It's a show where we hang out. This has been a long one. Sorry about that. But, you know, we didn't get to do a show just on Dominion, which absolutely deserved it. And Punk deserved his time as well. I think this was well worth the hour and a half.
01:28:32
Speaker
Yeah, I hope this was a good one. Thanks for listening and can't wait to do a next week show and fill you in on what we experienced over the weekend. Until next time, hit our music.