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Frances McKee
233 Plays4 years ago
Frances McKee is a Scottish singer / songwriter best known for her work with the band, The Vaselines.
Frances is also a Senior Iyengar Yoga Teacher and runs her own studio at The Yoga Extension, based in Glasgow.
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Transcript
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You
Podcast Introduction
00:00:02
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are listening to something rather than nothing. Creator and host Ken Volante. Editor and producer Peter Bauer.
00:00:17
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This is Ken Vellante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast.
Introduction of Guest Frances McKee
00:00:21
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And for this episode, have Frances McKee from Scotland. And Frances is somebody who I followed her music with the Basilians and other groups and also become particularly interested in finding out that her yoga practice and that she's been engaged with for many years.
Frances's Early Life and Artistic Beginnings
00:00:42
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Frances McKee, welcome to the podcast. Hi.
00:00:47
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I happy to have you. Start off the questions with, were you an artist when you were born? I'm a twin. So I don't know if that has anything to do with being an artist and also from a big family of five children. So I think we used to have a piano in our house and I was always tinkering on that piano.
00:01:15
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And I love to draw and sew and things. Obviously not when I was a baby, but even as quite a young person, my parents didn't pick up on these things. And one day I came home and the piano was gone. And I said to my parents, what happened to the piano? Oh, nobody used it. Just rubbish gathering
Impact of Family on Creativity
00:01:38
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dust. So I think I was actually, but I don't think I was given the opportunity.
00:01:45
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Especially when I was younger.
00:01:47
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Yeah, as I explored this question with guests, it's really risen to like a significant area of inquiry, like, you know, expectations, you know, I talked to artists where the expectations of their father or grandfather or painters before them, and they have those expectations versus others who are other cultivated, not cultivated start later. But it's I find it very fascinating of, you know, what happens when you're younger.
Defining Art and Creativity
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Sorry about the piano.
00:02:21
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My twin sister got invited to the recorder group at school, and she didn't want to do it. And I said, well, can I do it instead? And so I'll end the recorder at school.
00:02:36
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Yeah, wonderful. So another question is, talking about you as the beginning, as you know, where you're an artist, is just to keep it right within art to begin with and just like art and creativity. I wanted to ask you your opinion of what art is. So what is art?
Yoga's Influence on Creativity
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What is creativity in art? I think art can be anything you want it to be.
00:03:05
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And creativity is unique. So if you put those things together, then something unique can be art and created from anything. I wanted to talk about yoga and connection to creativity or that kind of expanse. I can speak for myself personally. I was introduced to yoga and it's changed how I physically inhabit the world.
00:03:35
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It's changed my ability to express. It's helped me control my emotions. And a lot of those things, it's been a great area to go in. And I've always been deeply fascinated with folks who are creative, like yourself, and because there tends to be some intense elements to the personality. So
00:03:58
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You've been, yoga isn't new for you. You've been practicing and you do it more primarily now, as I understand it. Can you talk about yoga in the connection to creativity and opening up in that
Frances's Transition to Yoga Teaching
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realm? Absolutely. So I think I started practicing yoga when I was about 23 and I was a school teacher at the time. And I remember the first class that I went to, I just thought, this is the best I have felt ever.
00:04:27
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And I started going to my teacher. I went with my sisters and one by one, they dropped away, but I kept going. And then I decided one day that I'd had enough of being a school teacher. And I remember turning up into my yoga teacher's class one Thursday at lunchtime. And she said, oh, what are you doing here? I said, I've left my job. And she said, welcome to our world.
00:04:54
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And it was brilliant because I had felt quite, oh no, what am I going to do? And I didn't think, I thought everyone had a sort of regular nine to five job and I felt quite bereft, but also really, I never wanted to teach your school children. I knew from the first day of college that I'd made a mistake, but that mistake continued for the four years of the education degree and then another seven years teaching.
00:05:25
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So it was a massive step just to say enough.
Creating Art through Yoga
00:05:29
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And then I trained as a yoga teacher and I've trained with the iAnger system. So we don't have like a set sequence. This is where the creativity comes from for me because in iAnger yoga, it's like learning an alphabet and then which are the poses individually.
00:05:52
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And then you can learn to write a song or poetry or a book, you know, by putting all these different sequences together. So quite often, and I've been teaching now for over 20 years, and it still excites me that I'm, you know, I'll have a week in a bit, but I want to, this is my forward bends week. How do I make it interesting for me as a teacher? How do I make it interesting for the people who are paying me to teach them? And how do I say what to
00:06:20
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if I want to teach a particular, maybe a more advanced pose, what are the building blocks that I need to get there, you know, so that people feel that they're effortlessly moving into something.
Overcoming Stage Fright with Yoga
00:06:31
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And for me, that is really creative. But on the other side of that, you know, yoga has given me something that I didn't think I would expect to get because when I was with the Vaseline's, when I was younger, I was really shy and I had terrible stage fright and things. So
00:06:49
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I, that's not completely gone, but it's certainly, I have an inner confidence that I think you get from yoga because you're, like you said, you're more content in your own skin, you feel relaxed in your own body and you just have this kind of, this is who I am.
Art from Suffering vs. Harmony
00:07:08
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And I think that's what's the gift of yoga, actually. It's not whether you can be
00:07:14
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you know, really flexible or anything like that. In fact, I was joking with my class yesterday because I said, you know, I always get phone calls from people saying, Oh, we can't I can't do yoga because I'm too, I'm too stiff. And I was saying yesterday, you know, with yoga, no one phones me up and says I want to be stable, because actually yoga should bring the stability, strength, a little bit flexibility, but it's the stability and it's just, you know, the fluctuations of the mind, but also the stability within
00:07:43
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your own self, it's really important. And that has helped me, the practice of yoga, because there was never much for practicing guitar, but the practice of yoga enabled, when I was young, before I had kids, I had a really quite strict practice regime. I would get up, I would practice yoga, and then I would practice guitar for a couple of hours. I've kind of, I still practice yoga. I don't practice guitar quite as often to my horror and shame,
00:08:13
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But, you know, so it gives you that discipline, doesn't it? And I think that, you know, I anger, BKSI anger, he saw a really strong link between music and yoga. He was brought over to the West by Yehudi Menuhin, the violinist. So, you know, I think the violinist said, I have learned to play my instrument not by practicing the violin, but by practicing yoga, which is incredible, isn't it?
00:08:41
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It's beautiful that that space is created. I want to delve into that dynamic in particular because there's a theme that's arisen in the podcast and it's like maybe just like this argument or historically about creativity and where it comes from. So I think the standard
00:09:01
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like Dostoevsky, Russian literature, the sufferer, the pain and the expression, almost the expression of all this stuff. And then I've been heavily influenced by maybe as you describe it, or yoga or contemplative practices where something moves out from a place of more harmony. And David
Nature vs. Nurture in Creativity
00:09:27
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Lynch, director, artist,
00:09:30
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really changed my or interrupted my thinking on the suffering because he said, you know, the place through transcendental meditation and you drop your net and you capture the fishes and the images that show up and you can get some big ones way down low as you do, you know, connect to this. These two ways of thinking about art are just so opposite. I wonder if you had any thoughts on
00:10:00
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that dynamic, like that artist struggle with of the suffering of the healing and expression. I think I did say to a friend once, if you're happy, you don't really write a good song. You know, so I think, you know, the best songs are, you know, they're not they're not happy songs, really. Right. They're about, you know, pain, suffering, whatever.
00:10:25
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So I think as in the human condition, we've all got that somewhere. There's always an aspect that's been either transformational from some sort of place of suffering. And I think it depends what you do with it. I think it'd be a very, very, I was going to say lucky person who never had any disruption in their life, or it could just simply be someone who's not connected. I don't know.
00:10:55
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I think you can wallow in that or you can make it a creative tool. But I don't think you need to have come from the depths to write a good book or whatever. But I think you have to go deep, whatever process you're going through.
Art in Times of Societal Upheaval
00:11:17
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It's the sort of nature or nurture kind of argument as well.
00:11:25
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you know, I think I'm glad my parents say weren't musical in the sense that they could play a really good musical instrument because I think the pressure that they would impose on, you know, you to do something like that would be too, too much. So I think, I think we are a product of our childhood, you know, we grew up, I grew up in the
00:11:50
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70s and it was harsh actually, it was a teenager in the 80s, it was not an easy time. However, and I was just saying this the other day, if it wasn't for unemployment benefit and social security, you know, a lot of artists that are my age now would never have started because you got help actually from the government to do nothing. I was a student but over the holidays I got paid
00:12:15
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I got my rent paid and things like that. I had a part-time job, but always had a part-time job and still studied, but still had a little bit of extra time for rehearsals and money to pay for rehearsals actually as well. I think now it's just not there. Yeah.
00:12:36
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Yeah. And I talk, you know, artists and in particular, you know, different fields, you know, talking about the pandemic and whether there are corresponds to it, whether there are can be translated through it. The role of art within it. Right. You know, I've talked a lot about those, those, those questions over time on that, on that point too. We talked about what, you know, what art is and like how it can come out, but what about,
00:13:04
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What is the role of art in your opinion? This come up a lot during social upheaval, things that have happened. But what do you believe the role of art is? Well, I think no one likes to hear a song that's preachy. I think that's the first thing. So but I think like, for example,
00:13:33
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music in any form of art writing has always pointed a finger at establishment. And that's not been allowed to happen at the moment because music is, well, drama, art, music, not so much art, I don't know, but well, yeah, in the sense that all the art galleries are closed. So art has been suppressed and stifled and I
00:14:01
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I wonder about that because, you know, musicians are really struggling at the moment, not just musicians, but people who work on the road, you know, will this ever come back? I really, really don't know. But I think, you know, it's very divided. You know, there are musicians that are sort of, you know, really glad that all these restrictions are taking place and point the finger at people who are breaking the rules, allegedly. And it's all become very, very divisive.
00:14:32
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And, you know, my feeling is there should be a time where musicians, artists, writers should be questioning. No one's asking any questions. Everyone's accepting. And for me, you know, that's not a revolution. And I think music and art and drama and writing and
Frances's Teaching Career and Educational Views
00:14:49
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all this, you know, the arts has been suppressed. And, you know, maybe something will come out of this, maybe a cultural revolution.
00:15:02
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not like China, but I do feel that there's a lot of censorship and suppression at the moment, and I feel quite uncomfortable with that. Yeah. I appreciate those comments on what the role of it is. I work in the labor movement here.
00:15:24
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You know, I have this kind of joke where like I get I love I love I love all types of news, but I'm a big metal fan, right? And I like the aggression that's in metal, you know, like I'm like a metal labor guy and there's a great folk tradition within labor, but it seems like sedentary to me and I know when I'm going into
00:15:46
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Like, you know, whether it's conflict or labor-based conflicts, like, let's get ripped off, let's go. And it's interesting as far as like different representations to be able to express. What I wanted to ask you, because I'm really interested in this, Francis, is about, you know, I represent teachers as well. And you're talking about your early part is like, you know, really 11 years as something you indicated that you knew wasn't quite right. And then,
00:16:15
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you know, not talking about a trajectory of a career, but the whole development of the Vaseline's and you learning guitar and playing. Starting with the teaching in the 11 years, for you,
00:16:36
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Do you want to try to, do you like want to try to get to the goal to be able to teach and never felt that it was right? Because that's such a long time. Like what was going on for you to kind of get where you needed to be from that point? I think it all goes back to when I was about 11, you know, I had quite a dysfunctional background and at 11 I said to myself, the only person that can look after you is you. So I,
00:17:04
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you know, worked hard at school and that was my exit, you know, to do it through, you know, a kind of degree. And I had, I'd really wanted actually to study drama, but that sort of working class sort of who do you think you are kind of thing was really strong. And, you know, so if I sit in, I was in a drama group from the age of 14, you know, it wasn't as if it was just like, oh, when I think I'm going to be
00:17:33
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drama person, you know, I had looked into it for seven years or whatever, but I just eventually just didn't have the confidence to even apply for it.
Disillusionment with Education
00:17:47
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So I got an interview for teacher training and I didn't want it so I was very relaxed at the interview and they said that they would let me know in a few months
00:18:00
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if I got in a place and they phoned me the next day and said that I had a place, which was the worst thing, because then I thought, oh, well, you know, I'm not going to apply for drama. I can, you know, I don't have to face that demon kind of thing. And I just wanted, I think also at the back of my mind was, well, I'll get a decent job with a decent wage when I become a teacher.
00:18:24
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Haha. But I wouldn't not, not necessarily if I followed what my heart, my heart was saying, you know, so I kind of just, and, you know, that was when I was with the band. So, you know, that came way before I was at college or anything. So when I left school, I was unemployed for a year. So I just felt, actually, I need to do something concrete. And I got, you know, so far with the course and it was fine and I could teach really well. But and it was not ever about
00:18:54
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The children did sort of the job, but it did feel a little bit like an institution. I felt like a prisoner or a prison warden because in teaching in some difficult places in Glasgow, it wasn't the kids fault. There was a lot of deprivation and what I had learned to teach at college was so far removed from the actual reality of what these children needed.
00:19:23
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And I found that, you know, that was the good part of it. I could go in every day and have a little bit of hope for these kids. But what I couldn't tolerate was the expectation of middle-class teachers wanting homework done from these children whose background was dysfunctional. And I understood that because, you know, to an extent that was what my family background was like.
00:19:50
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So it was middle class attitudes imposed on working class kids, you know, that had no economic structure in their family at all.
Empowerment through Yoga
00:20:01
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And it just got to me eventually. And for me to do the job that I really wanted to do, I would need to be, you know, in school way longer than I was paid for. So I just the system is corrupt. The whole idea of
00:20:16
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education. And, you know, I went on to home educate my own kids because I couldn't bear to put them through that system that had, you know, everyone boxed in by the age of seven. So it's a system that really sort of wore me down within anything.
00:20:36
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Yeah. And thank you for that. It's definitely a dynamic that I see a lot, you know, the K-12 system, given how much things have changed. And I see here with testing, I just had a conversation with an artist who's a teacher and we had a deep conversation about, you know, testing value, the language of children, the development of children, and she's deep down and saying,
00:21:04
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these kids have a lot and they have it very young. And we are, we're missing the primary link. We're missing the fundamental piece, like express yourself. And so exactly, exactly. And I think this everything, I mean, I, I watched these lovely kids come in at five years old. I mean, the,
00:21:28
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they just could soak up anything. And by the end of that first week, they were all bored out there. Not in my class, but, you know, that was it, you know, with my own children. I mean, they went on to secondary school, but I had two boys, first of all. And I just let them play with Lego and we were outside all the time. And that's what children need. They need freedom. They don't need to be boxed in, sitting at a desk.
00:21:55
Speaker
And now, of course, all these kids are labeled with ADHD and this, that and the other. And it's, you know, it's because we're trying to fit square pegs into round holes. And I think schools really need to change the way that they, you know, what they offer children. And I think actually quite a lot of times schools label children as stupid, not stupid, we can't say that anymore, but, you know, underachievers.
00:22:23
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And they're not, they're just not been given the right kind of education that they need. Yeah. I once heard this quote, uh, it was basically from a kid as a standard quote. It was my teacher told me I was smart. So I was, my teacher told me I was a good artist. So I was like the influence of the person who's right next to you. And we forget about that a lot. And this is self fulfilling prophecy, isn't it?
00:22:51
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I was told at school I couldn't sing. I wasn't allowed to be an angel at the nativity play. I was told, no, no, you can't sing. And that kind of stayed with me until I was in my drama group and we were auditioning for a musical. And the girl, the woman playing the piano, she was like, oh, you've got a really good voice. And I was like, really? But it took quite a lot of guts for me to audition because I had this embedded and I can't sing.
00:23:22
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It really sticks with you and I know my own development as far as whether it's drawing, painting, trying to represent something in the world or something inside me.
00:23:36
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got the negative or the weird stuff around the age that you mentioned 14 or 15. And it was 30 years later that I picked up the equipment again. So on that very point, you know, the creation of the realm or the ability and negatively spoken to this is what you were going to be. Exactly. You'll be nothing. You know, that said a lot. And I also think, you know, a lot of people get sick when they're older because it's because they've not tapped into their potential.
00:24:05
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they've not realized the possibilities. And I think this takes it back to yoga. Yoga opens up so many ideas of possibilities.
Music Career and Nirvana's Influence
00:24:16
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Like if you become confident within your body, and I don't mean you've got to be able to, I think, you know, we've really commercialized yoga to a point where it's actually putting people off. You know, everyone's sort of 20 and super bendy and that's not yoga. That is really not yoga.
00:24:35
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But it's transformational. So for me, you know, the most amazing thing is to see someone come in who, you know, needs just some help to see them transform into this, not cocky, horrible, but someone who, I mean, one of my students said, I finally like my body. And this is a 55 year old woman. I think that's an amazing thing to say, isn't it?
00:25:00
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That's the power of yoga. Oh, it's beautiful. You know, exactly. And when we're younger, you know, it's, oh, I'd hate to be 20 again. You know, because you're not, you're not, I hate saying this, but you don't know who you are. And as you get older, you let go of all those layers and layers. And yoga is really great at uncovering that. And then you can just be yourself, which,
00:25:29
Speaker
Some people might like, some people might not. I don't care anymore. I like me. That's the most important thing. That's the foundation. And everybody, we're talking with Frances McKee. And thank you so much, Frances, for joining.
00:25:50
Speaker
a few more questions. Actually, I wanted to mention one little anecdote. So I went to a Vaseline show. I saw that. Yeah, I got my I kept my electro I guess electronic records are permanent now. But I that's always a pretty favorite place to play is
00:26:09
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Always Doug for lounge so everybody listeners and but allow you Francis the Doug for lounge in Portland is my favorite music venue a very intimate, you know feels like you're in Twin Peaks. Oh It's brilliant
00:26:25
Speaker
of a small little roadhouse in Twin Peaks. And so that show was special to me. I never seen you play number one, number two, the sound, everything. Three, you make me laugh all the frigging time and I enjoy that. So thank you for that. And the final piece was, you know, I got the
00:26:48
Speaker
V for Vaseline's shirt at the end of the show and I'm buying it not at the end of the show is before the end had to leave a little bit before because I had a babysitter kid was kid was a little bit younger and so I wanted to get back and Of course the vendor says oh my gosh
00:27:06
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Francis is she's probably gonna stop by right after and I like oh I know she might but I gotta go so um I didn't get the chance to chat with you then but that was a fantastic show maybe about um five is that when duchess and juke were supporting us when who was was that when the duchess and juke were supporting us I'm not sure I don't remember that exactly um I can't remember we played there twice and once we played in this other place down
00:27:35
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It was a big call and it was awful. It was just awful. But that didn't have the same atmosphere or anything. Yeah, it's super, super intimate. I've seen some great shows there. About the music and your relationship to it. And we're talking about the
00:28:02
Speaker
the teaching and there's so much more we could talk about in expanding out what happens with kids and things like that. But then you start to move into music and then people know you through that and Nirvana covers your songs and then all that happens
Performing with Nirvana
00:28:21
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What did that mean to you? All of a sudden, all that happened. Nothing. Because at that point, the Vaseline split up just as I started to teach. I was involved in a whole different world. I wasn't involved with music at all, except I got really into electronic music and was going to rave.
00:28:51
Speaker
Guitar music meant nothing. Eugene phoned me up and said, look, there's this American band that wants us to support them in Edinburgh. And I was like, no confidence. Like, well, I said, I haven't got a guitar anymore. We had this like 20 minute rehearsal in my flat and then went off to Edinburgh. And, you know, Norman was there. It was like a circus of people there. And I was like, oh, shh.
00:29:19
Speaker
I don't know how to play anything. So I did the only thing I could do, which was to get absolutely totally drunk. I can't do this. Push me out there. Push me out there. Let's go. And you know, I had no idea that this band, especially Kurt, was so enamored by us, I had no clue. In fact, because all I had done for the past wee while was just trying to forget about the Vaseline's because it was just so embarrassing and
00:29:50
Speaker
you know, yeah. So, you know, Kurt was around, but he's quite shy. I was just sort of in fear of my life going on this stage without knowing what I was doing, thinking, what an idiot, you know, so all that sort of stuff that goes through your mind and not
00:30:08
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And just not being rehearsed, just not knowing what we
Adapting to Online Yoga during the Pandemic
00:30:11
Speaker
were going to do. But we were always like that. That's why we always got really drunk. We went on. It was a total shambles all the time. So people have asked me so many times about that night. And the only thing I can remember is at the end of the night, everyone was really drunk. That's when the inhibitions came down and everyone was chatting. And it was great.
00:30:38
Speaker
Don't ask me about the gig. Don't ask me about even watching it. Well, so Francis, I mean, it was rock and roll, right? At the end of the day, it's rock and roll. I wanted you, if you could just take a little bit more of an opportunity to talk about
00:30:58
Speaker
yoga practice and connection to to to the studio and just mention kind of like how do we I'm taking in the sense of like through the pandemic and how yoga happens and I know there's this kind of online and physicality I was just wondering if you can mention as far as your practice what's going now on for you in your creative endeavor
00:31:21
Speaker
Well, thank God I practice yoga. That's all I can say. And I used to joke with my students and say, you know, I could go to prison. It wouldn't bother me because if I had a space to practice yoga, you know, that's it. Yeah, because you could take your journey inward. So actually, I have my own studio. And I. Everyone in the building had gone, but but but my there's three units and the people upstairs have moved out. So
00:31:50
Speaker
I was going to the studio because we had to sort of be really adaptable and went straight into online. And I didn't have space at home to do that. So I would go into the studio on my own. It was quite creepy, actually. And so, you know, coming home at night, the streets were deserted, that kind of thing. I don't like teaching online. I don't think it's the way that yoga should be taught. But for that time,
00:32:19
Speaker
It was, you know, my students were seeing how grateful they were and I was doing it. But as a teacher, it's really exhausting. And, you know, it's the fact we all thought it was going to be quite short term. And here we are. You know, we only, Scotland's been quite strict. We only actually decided to move to bigger premises. So the upstairs where the people had moved out, I thought this time last year I took over that lease instead.
00:32:48
Speaker
I thought this would be great. This offered people a bit more ventilation, more space and all the rest of it. So I got the permission to sort of change it into a yoga studio last October. And it's only been four weeks ago that I could get students into the building. And actually, there are so many students not coming in. They're just prefer for various reasons to prefer to do online.
00:33:16
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So in order for us to pay the bills, we have to do this, what we call this blended approach, where we have people in the room, people online, and it's actually, it's quite exhausting. So I'm taking you another, I took some days off last week, I'm going on a little break tomorrow and just to recharge my batteries actually.
00:33:36
Speaker
Yeah, good. You know, it's one of the things I did notice as far as the extraction with the online stuff, you know, I think a lot of humans like whether as they were trying to perform on there. I mean, I talked to people doing online comedy, you know, like I've talked to people, you know, who are Sopranos, you know, doing tryouts like stuff. I mean, you have to do it that way, but you can't imagine
00:34:02
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exactly how you can instantiate the presence of a soprano or or the you know the yoga pose right as far as i don't i really don't think so and i think you know what's happened is that um which it's good and not good you know so the community that you have of your students is now getting superseded by the international community because you can just go on
00:34:29
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to anything and do anything with any teacher now and and don't get me wrong I've traveled far and wide to be taught yoga you know in 2019 I go to Puna in India every couple of years and when I was there in December 2019 supposed to be going this year again but I don't think that's going to happen but I've been to Colorado you know to be taught you know so you know I'm it's lovely to be taught you know with these international teachers but now what's happened is
00:35:00
Speaker
I think that, you know, I was joking with my students and it's like, you know, you're here online, but what are you actually getting from me? You could go, you're paying me, but you could go online to Adrian and pay with your soul. It's free. But, you know, I think it's all about illusion now, isn't it? So I think a student who came in yesterday to the studio, she said, oh, God, it's so different being in the studio.
00:35:30
Speaker
to being at home. It's so different and you can't, there's no words for it actually, but it's that connection, it's that human connection that's totally missing now. Having said that, my teacher's in London and she runs an online class, but she teaches in a very, very specific way and she watches everyone like a hawk and you get instructions and connections from her and
00:36:00
Speaker
That's more than I would get if she was teaching. I would go down to London every few months, but I'm getting that weekly class, which for me is a bliss actually, it really is.
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah, you bring up an interesting point about the, you know, the community and how it's created, right? Because you start to aggregate online, you'd be like, well, the yoga studio is down the street. And it kind of brings up questions of community, like in the sense of like, you know, what the group is yoga, the energy
Concerns about Yoga Commercialization
00:36:34
Speaker
We know that the energy in the room and all those things tend to tend to carry a lot I want to you didn't mention some of the aspects of yoga where it seems like more of a Corporate, you know that there's a little bit more of an infusion of trying to sell it as a product um, and I think within that started like when you mentioned I was thinking about some of the
00:36:59
Speaker
difficulties in describing what yoga is. I mean, if we're talking about energy, right, all of a sudden, you and I can talk about that, we can get into that. But you know, you bring up energy walking around the street, people are like, Oh, invisible energy, and you're sending me my energy, and we're doing this. It doesn't it doesn't it's tough to have to get a handle on. And since that what yoga is, do you think there's a better kind of like way to be able to connect around that?
00:37:28
Speaker
I don't know. I think it is a there's a certain vitality. I can tell people that practice yoga. You know, we we did it in some pop's 20th anniversary and I was watching Mudhoney. Oh, yeah. And I was watching Mark Arm and afterwards I said, do you practice yoga? And he said, oh, yeah, I do. You can just tell there's a there's a vitality there.
00:37:57
Speaker
And, you know, I, my practice comes first, you know, I teach yoga just to feed my yoga habit. I don't really, you know, I get quite surprised with people who teach but never have time to practice. I don't think you've got that the wrong way around. So I think, oh, you know, if someone meets me or whatever,
00:38:26
Speaker
then maybe some of my yoga enthusiasm, whether it's my vibration or the way I hold myself or or just my vitality makes them think, oh, I wonder what that is. And then maybe ask about it. You know, I don't know if I was walking or either, you know, my shoulders down and, you know. I mean, I always just say to people, if you love running or if you love hill walking, practice yoga, because that will help you run and hill walk for much longer.
Yoga, Astrology, and Reincarnation
00:38:56
Speaker
So it's almost like a bit of body insurance. And then you don't bother saying, and then you feel, you know, your vibrational change, you don't go there, you just go, you just have the energy to do the things that you really love. Yeah, that's quite the invitation. At the beginning of the pandemic, I
00:39:19
Speaker
I started walking deliberately each day, and I've averaged, I think, eight kilometers a day. So I basically doubled or tripled my walking, but I never really connected in the way that you said around the yoga to the walking and what that does. I know I was doing two somewhat connected, wonderful things to do just for myself in a pandemic or at any time.
00:39:45
Speaker
But I've received those benefits and effects. And it's just notice and be gentle with it as it's not sell it as the next product. You don't like the entities. Exactly. And it's not for everyone. That's the other thing, because I used to run beginners courses. And then I would say at the end, so if I've totally put yoga, you can always try Pilates now.
00:40:15
Speaker
But there are people who will just serially try things out and never commit to one thing. So I always have a kind of bet with myself when you say I have a group of 12 people who will continue and who will just disappear. And I often lose that bet hands down because some people that I just don't expect will keep going with it. And people that I think, wow, they've really got into this, just disappears into the ether.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the universe, right? I never take offense, though. Yes. Speaking of the universe, Frances, titular question of the show, why is there something rather than nothing? Well, that is a good question. I've always believed there's something.
00:41:10
Speaker
you know, whether it's, you know, what is it, Deepak Chopra calls it the unified field, or, you know, the universal matrix. I don't know, there is, I mean, I study astrology as well. So I, you know, it's, you can look at your chart and, you know, I've got a twin sister, so you can play out that chart in various ways. So, you know, as an astrologer, you're not predicting. But, you know,
00:41:40
Speaker
if you if you see how a chart unfolds with someone and you know there is a there is a something definitely but what is it hope is it sometimes I don't know is it positivity is it the fact that I've got those of you there and astrology Jupiter conjunct the Sun which is you know really expansive
00:42:02
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of people then say to me that I don't have any fear. I do actually, but I'm very courageous with it. You know, I take lots of risks, more probably now than when I was younger. But, yeah, there is something, definitely. And I was talking to my daughter that I do talk about reincarnation. I heard that word when I was five and then I knew exactly what it meant.
00:42:28
Speaker
But my daughter doesn't believe in reincarnation, so she says she's 16. And she said that in any way, that's a good point. Even if I had been reincarnated, I can't remember that past life anyway. So it's just here and now.
Lifestyle and Discipline through Yoga
00:42:44
Speaker
Whereas I don't think it is just here and now. I think we are a product of our ancestry, you know, or, you know, when it is that thing where you meet someone and you just know
00:42:58
Speaker
them, you know, you've met them in another light or whatever. So I am kind of, I disturb the rest of the band with my own very Newtonian in their thinking. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it
00:43:18
Speaker
And, um, no, I, I, I really appreciate, um, your comments there. And it's like, uh, the question itself, you know, it's just around like creativity and, and, and feeling and, and sensation. So, um, yeah. Um, well, that spark has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And I think like in creativity, um,
00:43:41
Speaker
You know, going back to that question, it was the one I like to kick around of like, you know, like when did the ideas come out or should they come out of chaos or is everybody different? Peace, chaos, or does it matter what you create? I mean, I think if you think of like music and rock music, it's always like, it feels like I'm getting it out. Like here it is right at you. Francis, I wanted to ask you to,
00:44:09
Speaker
Uh, let the listeners know as far as like, I don't know whether it's connecting to your yoga practice or things that you say about yoga or like, like how folks can connect to you or where to find like resources that you'd like to share. This is totally your space. Okay. Well, my website is the yoga extension.com. So there you'll find all the class schedules and obviously cause just about everything is on zoom.
00:44:37
Speaker
depending on the time difference, it might be a class that you want to do, that would be brilliant. That's got my contact email on there. And we have a Facebook page where we pop up, you know, different things about yoga photographs of us trying to persuade people to do yoga. You know, I hate to say, you know, it's a business as well, you know, so we need
00:45:04
Speaker
We need bums on mats really to make it viable. So it's a difficult way. I'm rubbish at marketing and what I've noticed is there are some people, there's some yoga teachers that are not great teachers, but they're very, very good at marketing and there are some very good teachers and you have to go and find them actually.
00:45:29
Speaker
But I mean, there's some amazing teachers out there. And if you fancy the eye anger system, then, you know, we're very meticulous about how we approach the subject. And, you know, as a beginner, it is building blocks and we have great fun. Every class is different. Every muscle is used because of that. And it's an intellectual pursuit as well. And I know that means you're using your intelligence, your body intelligence.
00:45:58
Speaker
It's interesting. It's not just moves. It's not just, but you can make it like that. You can just, you know, it's like, like I tell a story when I teach a class, you know, a story through the poses.
00:46:12
Speaker
It's, it's, it's really powerful because I can say for myself that at least as far as how I have developed as a human and I don't know if it's like sometimes feels like American male like I'm 48 now of a particular generation and it's just.
00:46:30
Speaker
What I found is I get so caught up in my head over time. My life has been integrating my body into my experience because it just, it has. And so yoga has helped me.
00:46:43
Speaker
Integrate those things and I've just become more like you said intelligent like I can Like never in my life like if something was really impacting me like that was really negative. I'm caught up in my head I wouldn't know how to express it. I didn't know what I was feeling I had trouble articulating now. It's not perfect but like right now I've gotten to the point where I'm like I
00:47:02
Speaker
You know what? I'm really upset at this moment. I can feel it and I think this is what I'm responding to Francis I never did that for like the first 46 year 45 years of my life and just like now where it's like I'm not perfect right now. This is how I'm feeling and here's what's going on and long journey for me This is absolutely crucial because it's mind and body but you know, I see people they're just walking heads and
00:47:30
Speaker
That's it. I disconnect from here downwards. And it's usually the super ones that are all about academic intelligence. And I will say to them that there are seven or probably more intelligences and having this ability to connect with your body is massive, actually. But it's making all the neuro passages and
00:47:58
Speaker
the nadis that are connecting the body. It's absolutely visceral. And I think some people can come to yoga and never forget that because they're walking ahead. So if you can just get some kind of line in, then you're doing something good. But for some people, it just never happens, unfortunately. And for some, you can see it's amazing to watch.
Inclusivity in Yoga Practice
00:48:23
Speaker
Yeah, you said you've physically seen it. I think the point that I mentioned for myself, particularly, I know at least culturally here, yoga is a feminine exercise. You know, it's very much. And men, I needed it. And the way I was brought up, I deeply needed it. And I think there's an aspect where... Well, you can help me answer my question because Andrew, my partner, he teaches as well.
00:48:53
Speaker
And he said he thinks he should teach a man-only class. What do you think about that? No, that's a great question. I think the main merit, because I think the answer is you shouldn't have to, but I think the real answer in practical terms is
00:49:16
Speaker
If men, it's troubling time to talk about men needed space, but let's say men need space in a yoga community. That's men that they can feel like, Oh, I'm going to do this weird thing, but I'm doing like a man type of thing. If that can get you, you know, there, I think, I think that's really, really powerful. Even though it sounds strange to talk about, I mean, like right now, I can't decide if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I do know a lot of men are scared.
00:49:44
Speaker
to come into class because it's too many women and I can I can understand that as well. Well what about well I'm sorry to interrupt but what about like if I'm this isn't this is my hang up but what if I'm like a man and now I'm gonna look super like clumsy like you know if like I want like say I'm a businessman but I've decided like I'm really like struggling I've tried this yoga thing a couple times and then I go there
00:50:10
Speaker
I'm going there and like when I first started doing yoga, I'm like, holy shit I have no balance at all like I have zero balance like I thought cuz in my head at 12 I could balance I thought I could balance years later so it's like that maybe even the sense of like
00:50:25
Speaker
I don't care what I look like in yoga, but I've been doing yoga for a long time. But I know when I first went in, I didn't want to look like nobody wants to look like an idiot or fall over or injure themselves. So I think there might be that kind of component too. I see more younger males.
00:50:41
Speaker
interested in yoga. But um, you know, I mean, if you look at every class that I go to, and it's each every one for the last three or four years in different locations is 90% male, it's just something to notice, or in other genders, too. I'm talking about traditional binary here. But men, I think men can use yoga. And yeah, I mean, thinking about how, you know, it's, yeah, I think it's just trying to find ways to help bridge that gap for people who
00:51:09
Speaker
maybe feel on the outside. And that's a world that I can't ever visit. And I think we try to be very inclusive. And, you know, we have Andrew, he teaches, you know, there's male teachers, there's female teachers, but, you know, we have an open door policy. It's, you know, any age. And this is the beauty of I anger yoga. Actually, you could start it and set at 70 and still feel the benefit and not feel stupid or clumsy or. Yeah.
00:51:39
Speaker
you know, whatever, because we take great care of people in the class, because we're teaching. We're teaching the poses. It's not anything to do with us as such. Our role is as a guide, really. And when we see people come on so well, it's really thrilling,
Experiences in Portland
00:52:02
Speaker
actually. I have a student who started in the lockdown. So he was doing it online, but of course,
00:52:09
Speaker
We teach a lot of classes. He was doing two classes a day. He was quite overweight. And honestly, he went to his chiropractor and his chiropractor was like, what have you been doing? I've never, you know, he'd lost half his body weight. Just the yoga was a catalyst, you know, looking at his diet and, you know, and then on it goes and he feels confident coming into the studio. He's come to me for private lessons and he's just really, then he started going to the gym.
00:52:38
Speaker
And he's got an injury. Right. And you're like, yeah, it's fine to go to the gym. I'm not a gym person, but, you know, whatever, whatever gives you that songs, the body's moving. But I said, get the, get your body intelligence into gear so that when you go to the gym, you can use what you've learned. Yeah.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and thank you for talking about your experience with this. I've been a student of it and not as well versed in maybe some of the doctrinal aspects, very practical about it. And it's a unique opportunity for me to talk to you about connections of Cree,
00:53:28
Speaker
creativity and connected to where things come from. Francis, I want to tell you that it's actually been a deep honor to be able to talk to you.
00:53:44
Speaker
You're like, for me, when I do these shows and I have guests, like I, a lot of times I'm kind of so interested in like your journey or where you are, what you've done or how you've done it. That it's, it's, it always feels like a great benefit and a gift to me. And I just want to extend to you that I've deeply enjoyed chatting with you and meeting you. And I didn't meet you at the Doug Fur. And I didn't meet you last night.
00:54:11
Speaker
Who knows? Who knows at the Doug Fur? Maybe I would have said something outlandish or spoiled something and you would have never done the podcast. I did sell things at the merch table afterwards. You didn't have to tell me. No, I could have said something strange because of being flustered. I really like Portland actually. It's a great city. It really is.
00:54:38
Speaker
Portland's been important to me, and I talked on the show, freedom, and I'm not trying to oversell anything. It's a complicated place, like every place is complicated, but the ability to express yourself, the ability to move about with a higher level of freedom than other areas, I say amen to you. I love that.
00:54:55
Speaker
wow i didn't know that actually that's brilliant that's true yeah there's a lot of space a lot of openness a lot of creativity and sometimes it's mock they're being too you know foofy and all that type of stuff but what i'm saying is there are people and they're dressed up and as far as gender acceptance it's not perfect it's a very but what i'm saying is there is an acceptance or an ability to perform or to be yourself in that way
00:55:25
Speaker
That's how we can look for us, isn't it? We have to accept, absolutely.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:55:30
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm glad you enjoyed your time, and thank you for the show at The Doug Fur. Thank you for coming out to the podcast. You can obviously see I'm very busy on a Saturday night.
00:55:43
Speaker
Come on, I've seen movies about Glasgow and Saturday nights. And there are intense movies. Thank you so much, Frances. It's been a pleasure to meet you. And enjoy your yoga journey, because it is an amazing thing. I wish everyone practiced yoga. Maybe the world would be a better place, actually. Yeah. Thank you, Frances. And whatever you do on your Saturday night in Glasgow,
00:56:13
Speaker
Make sure you enjoy it. Well, it's been a pleasure, so thank you. Thanks, Frances. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. This is something rather than nothing.