Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Player Support, Trust & Safety, and the Future of Community-Led Games | Schell Games
47 Plays4 days ago
In this episode of Player Driven, Greg Posner sits down with Laura Norwicke Hall, Senior Player Support Specialist at Schell Games, to unpack what modern player experience really looks like when games scale.
Laura shares her unconventional journey from managing communications at a zoo to building player support and trust & safety systems for games like Among Us 3D and I Expect You to Die. Along the way, she breaks down how studios should think about moderation, community feedback, AI, and player trust not as reactive systems, but as core product infrastructure.
This is a practical, behind-the-scenes conversation for anyone building or operating live games, platforms, or digital communities.
🔑 Key Topics & Takeaways
🧠 Transferable Skills & Career Growth
Laura explains why soft skills, empathy, and cross-team communication often matter more than industry-specific experience, and how a growth mindset enabled her transition into game development.
🎮 Player Support as Product Intelligence
Player support isn’t just about closing tickets. Laura walks through how player feedback becomes:
- Early bug detection
- LiveOps prioritization
- Internal advocacy for players
And why every report deserves due diligence until proven otherwise.
🔊 Voice Moderation, Trust & Safety at Scale
The conversation dives deep into:
- Why Schell Games implemented voice moderation post-launch
- How AI-powered tools reduced toxicity by over 60%
- Why bans alone weren’t enough and how muting changed player sentiment
- The challenge of moderating reclaimed language and contextual speech
🏠 Private Lobbies & Player Consent
Laura shares lessons learned from player backlash around moderation in private spaces and how Schell Games introduced opt-in unmoderated private lobbies with clear guardrails for safety and youth accounts.
🤖 AI as an Accelerator, Not a Crutch
Rather than chasing hype, Laura talks about using AI responsibly to:
- Learn faster
- Validate sources
- Improve response quality in player support
While still maintaining human judgment and nuance.
🔮 Looking Ahead: Community, AI, and 2026
The episode closes with a forward-looking discussion on:
- Where AI fits into player experience next
- How studios should think about trust, safety, and community long-term
- Why listening systems will matter more than moderation systems alone
🔗 Learn More
- Schell Games: https://www.schellgames.com
- Follow Player Driven for more conversations on the business of games, community, and player experience
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Laura Hall and Shell Games
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Player Driven, everyone. i am joined by Laura Hall today. She is a Senior Player Support Specialist at Shell Games. I am super excited. I remember when I first put my quest on playing I Expect You to Die and just being so immersed into it. And I've been so excited to talk to someone from Shell Games. So Laura, thank you so much for joining us today. You want to do a little bit of introduction about yourself and let people know about who you are?
00:00:23
Speaker
Sure, absolutely. And thanks for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. um So yes, my name is Laura Hall. I am Senior Player Support Specialist at Shell Games. It's a position that we didn't previously have.
00:00:35
Speaker
We started this position about four or five years ago. And previous previous to that, I was a producer at Shell for about four years. And so a little bit about Shell
Shell Games: IP Projects and Collaborations
00:00:45
Speaker
Games. We do some internal IP projects. So the I Expect You to Die series, we've created ah Until You Fall.
00:00:53
Speaker
And a number of titles right now, we just ah launched Project Free Fall, which is in earliest access on Steam. um And we've created Among Us three d previously Among Us VR. And so we've done all all kinds of internal IP as well as a fair amount of client work. And so we've worked with all kinds of really cool organizations from all over the place. And yeah, it's been a real pleasure to to create a wide variety of games and experiences. Yeah, you get to dabble in all these different technologies.
VR to 3D Transition for Among Us
00:01:25
Speaker
Is there one you as a player as well as some networks the industry that excites you the most? Is it the VR? Is it working with companies that are healthcare related? Is it anything or all the above?
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, i think I think in terms of the games that we've made at Shell, um the VR experiences are really cool. I think that it's an aspect of gaming that there's a lot of gamers out there.
00:01:46
Speaker
You might be a mobile gamer. You might have a console. VR gamers, I think, are a specific breed. And I think at Shell, we've gotten pretty darn good at making VR experiences. I think especially with experiences like Among Us three d we've been able to reach a ah different demographic of players that maybe have not previously experienced some of the Shell Games games. And because Among Us 3D is available both on Steam for non-VR players and on Steam, PlayStation, Meta, and Pico for VR players. We kind of get to integrate with Among Us fans. We get to have VR enthusiasts. And we've we've just seen like a a new segment of the market with that. So I think that's been a really special title for us, but it's really fun. Check check out all the Shell Games games.
00:02:33
Speaker
I got a question here, right? And Laura has mistakenly used the word Among Us VR. And I'm curious, was the plan to do a VR version exclusively and then realized, hey, there's players on the web that want to play this as well. So we're going to pivot and create the VR experience along with a 3D experience, allowing more people to play the game.
00:02:53
Speaker
Very similar to that, just in the opposite order. So we worked very closely with Innersloth to create what was originally Among Us VR. And Among Us VR was the VR version of Among Us. So what does that mean? You're playing in a 3D space, you're in a VR headset, and you're playing that that iconic gameplay, but you're doing it in VR.
00:03:14
Speaker
And then we got a lot of feedback from our player community that said, like, hey, I don't have a VR headset, but this looks so cool, and I love Among Us, and I really want to try this out. And so we thought, well, maybe, maybe we could take this experience and bring it to PC so that so the folks without a ah VR headset could still play this
Player Support: 'I Expect You to Die' vs. 'Among Us 3D'
00:03:34
Speaker
experience. And so in May 2025, we launched Among Us 3D. We rebranded Among Us VR um as Among Us 3D. So it's the same game, except now that it's also inclusive to non-VR players.
00:03:48
Speaker
So I am a big fan of I Expect You to Die. I played the first two and then I think my quest is on its way out. But it's not as much as a community game as Among Us. And I'm curious if when you look at your community and maybe you weren' aren't quite certain of the answers, like do the different players converse with you differently? Do you hear as much from I Expect You to Die players as you do from say Among Us or Project Freefall?
00:04:12
Speaker
So the first I Expect You to Die game that launched in 2016, that community is alive and well. We hear from them tremendously. And it's ah you're right, it's a very different audience than what we see from Among Us 3D. Among Us 3D right now, from the player first player support perspective, we definitely get the most correspondence about Among Us three d But we certainly still continue to hear from the I Expect You to Die crowd as well. the The content of the communications, it's very different. So Among Us 3D being a live online multiplayer game versus the I Expect You Die experiences where you're in the headset, it's not multiplayer, you're kind of on this journey.
00:04:55
Speaker
as a spy by yourself, um we get a lot of like design questions like, hey, I'm really having trouble beating this level. What am I doing wrong? And they're like, well, we don't want to spoil it for you. Here's some hints. Or like send us a video of your gameplay, and we see, oh, yeah, no, they missed that little shard of glass that you need to. So there's definitely a different kind of composition there versus the Among Us 3D crowd, who's saying like maybe they had an issue with another player.
00:05:21
Speaker
And so we want to make sure that from a moderation perspective, we're supporting those requests. Maybe they're having trouble getting online. So we want to help them work through a bug there. It's just a a very different composition of what players might be wondering about the game, especially for a game that's been out since 2016 when we're talking about I Expect You to Die. um a lot of those a lot of those inquiries that are coming in are like,
00:05:43
Speaker
Okay, i've I've looked at speedruns of this, I've watched other people playing this, or so something someone said in a forum somewhere like that this is available, could I get one of those too? Like those kinds of questions for a game that might be just a little, it's been around a little bit longer, it's got a little more reputation, and a lot of the questions have already been answered, and those answers are out there on the internet. So a lot of our players are savvy to find that. We're doing updates on on Among Us 3D all the time. so there are new questions, new content questions, new you know live live type of live ops questions that might come up as well.
From Zoo to Games: Laura's Career Journey
00:06:18
Speaker
What's one skill you learned from your Zoo days that ended up being more valuable in the game development world than you learned from inside the industry? Soft skills, people skills, absolutely people skills. So when I worked at the Zoo, I was there for for six years working with keepers, working with all kinds of people. um from office staff to like animal management and people who are making diets for the the animals like food prep. um You work with a very wide plethora of
00:06:49
Speaker
of professionals who care very deeply about their work. And whether you're talking to a veterinarian or someone who works at the front gates, those soft skills are universally applicable the same way they are whether you're talking to an engineer or you're talking to a designer or you're talking to an artist or a client.
00:07:07
Speaker
it It really just being able to work with people, being kind and affable and and empathetic. I think those are are some of the most important skills that I've honed over the years. Did you realize that coming in or did it like something click at some point? You had that answer seemingly ready to go. so I'm curious, it's like you picked up on this already.
00:07:25
Speaker
I mean, people have asked me that before. It's it's not a a common jump to work at a zoo and then a game studio. And prior to working at the zoo, I worked in broadcasting. So you might look at some of those different endeavors and and think, what is the commonality there? So a lot of project management management skills, a lot of growth mindset, just being open to whatever whatever comes your way, saying yes, and let's work together to figure this out.
Gamer Demographics and Diversity Misconceptions
00:07:50
Speaker
What's one misconception that studios still have about player support that you wish you can erase from the industry forever? I would say the demographics of a gamer. I don't know that the studios necessarily think that way. I think we understand that there can be a very diverse player base for any game. But I still think that there's a tendency to think, well, what do players of this game want? And while that might be true for a large swath of them, I think it's really important to not count out just how very diverse people who play your game can be.
00:08:26
Speaker
I think we i see the same thing on the marketing side as well. Everyone's like, oh, I'm gonna create this game and everyone's on TikTok. And like, well, you're creating an RPG and TikTok may not be the best place for you. might wanna think about a Reddit or a place where you can tell these stories. And I think that's a great point is that you can't just group everyone the same. You have to understand kind of what they are, how they play, what they do.
00:08:46
Speaker
When you're advocating for players inside the studio, what's a moment it feels like that you actually moved the needle internally?
Complexities of Moderating Reclaimed Language
00:08:55
Speaker
think one way that we've moved the needle quite a bit is reclaimed language. I think that that can be a very nuanced, very complicated topic. And i think when we started when we started moderating, we took the stance, which i I still don't think was unreasonable at the time, to say, like, racial slurs are racial slurs. Like, if something is a toxic piece of language, that's definitely something
00:09:23
Speaker
that we want out our game. And the difference between philosophically making that decision and on an everyday basis, going into the moderation software and hearing what people are saying in game and hearing some high five moments, some some really good moments where someone is using reclaimed language, trying to take back a position of power from a very complicated sociological aspect, and then seeing that person get banned um for using a ah word that that they are trying to take back.
00:09:55
Speaker
That's not something that we considered right out of the gate. And it's something that We don't want to disempower people who are trying to leverage that very nuanced um situation. So I think talking to people internally, changing our our perspective on the way that we were doing moderation, I think that was a ah big win and something that we've we've definitely continued to try to do.
00:10:22
Speaker
um keep an eye on and something that we've continued to try to evolve as we go. I'm not going to say that we got it completely right, but I think we're moving in the right direction. And I think we've been a lot more thoughtful about where to apply those bands and how to apply those bands.
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah. Voice moderation is messy, right? And I think, you know, you're going to miss the first few times. The idea is, can you show progress? Can you make those first few steps and can you learn from what's going on? Can you just take a step back and and explain what is, what do you mean by reclaimed language? and And what's it something that maybe the rest of the industry can start thinking about kind of learning from this mistake before before implementing?
00:11:00
Speaker
Absolutely. Reclaimed language is a word that we might use, we might consider to be a a slur or something that would otherwise be toxic language. But the context of how it's being used and most specifically the speaker, is is the person part of a marginalized group that has been called this word and now that marginalized group is saying, you don't get to call us this word, we're going to use this word because when I use it, I can take its power back and you can't hurt me with that anymore. That's really complicated when you're talking about something like voice chat and you don't know whether or not the person who's using this phrase in ah in a short snippet of audio is a member of that group.
00:11:41
Speaker
Are they using it satirically? Are they using it to hurt someone who may have said that earlier in the in the match. So it's very nuanced and it takes a lot of understanding to say, we're not going ban this because this person is not using it in a hostile way.
00:11:57
Speaker
There's so much more that goes into it than just a transcript or even just the inflection necessarily. You have to think about the reception, the inflection, what has happened previously, trying trying to identify all of these social factors that are happening within the game. could be It can be very nuanced and and very difficult to discern with accuracy. What is the last game you played?
00:12:16
Speaker
I
Laura's Early Gaming Experiences
00:12:17
Speaker
have an eight, a five, and a three-year-old at home. We love our Nintendo Switch. I'm trying to remember if it was Cosmic Invasion or if it I think it was Boomerang Fu. I think last night we played Boomerang Fu. I'm always the pineapple. My son's always the boba tea.
00:12:32
Speaker
So, yeah. We played, ah me and my seven-year-old, we were playing a lot of Cosmic Invasion this weekend. You guys got all four controllers going? We do, we do. And the three-year-old, she's on my team because we have two boys and a girl. And so we're always She-Hulk and we're She-Hulk and Phoenix. And so nice she tells me when to switch between the characters, which we lost a few last a few lives ah along the way. But I think she's still honing her skills. So, rewinding time, do you remember the first game that kind of made you fall in love with the craft of gaming?
00:13:05
Speaker
I played a lot of stuff. um I mean, when I was ah a young kid, we had the old Macintosh, like, black and white screen. I'm dating myself right now. Played a lot of Tetris, played a game called Shufflepuck Cafe. played Helicopter. Those were all fun and formative, I think, in my younger years. As a teenager, if you want to go like a deep cut on games, I played a game called Titanic Out of Time. And it was, I think it's been re-released on Steam. It's, it is magnificent. And it was like out at the same time as the movie. So it was like a teeny bopper. Fell in love with the movie, fell love with the game.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, not years and years. I had that game and it took me like eight years to beat it. And I realized like, oh, I can just Google the answers now. And it's just like, that was such a creepy game. And I still look at it from time to time because the music, the atmosphere is just like, what is going on here?
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. This is hopefully not a spoiler alert, but I remember the first time that I was electrocuted in the in the electric bath, I like screamed, jumped from the computer, ran across my house. like The power of gaming, it's incredible. So yeah, I appreciated that. And I mean, all the big titles too, like Crash Bandicoot. Mario, all that kind of stuff.
00:14:16
Speaker
I mean, it's fun. But then when you realize that it can have the same emotional resonance as other types of media, and then you're like, wow, this is really fun. Then you start connecting with other people. And I don't know if games can be so so wonderful in a way that I think is exclusive to gaming, that that you can bond with other people. You can have these shared experiences. Sure, you can get that, like, oh, we both saw this movie. Let's talk about it. But you are shaping that experience as a player, too.
00:14:44
Speaker
And that's tremendously powerful. Yeah. I mean, it's the beauty of community too, right? You kind of build these these experiences with people and you you can share about it and talk about it. I didn't realize anyone else ever knew about this Titanic game and here we are, right? It's awesome stuff.
00:14:59
Speaker
Hours of my life into that game. It's fabulous. too many the hours. Love it though. I remember the workout room. i always wondered who works out at these types of rooms. Yeah. 1912. Who's doing it? No. they just You just strap the girdle on and you keep going.
00:15:12
Speaker
One of the things I love talking about is the journey of how you get into gaming and your story is right up there towards the top.
Career Path: Skills from Zoo to Shell Games
00:15:18
Speaker
You started at a zoo and maybe you didn't start the zoo, but you came from the zoo and that is so cool. I feel like so many people I know would not want to leave a zoo, but I understand why. But explain to us, how does this even happen? What are you what are you doing at the zoo? Are you always interested in going to gaming? How did you make that leap?
00:15:38
Speaker
Sure, sure. Well, Greg, you and I were talking about some of our formative games that we played when we were kids. um i've been I've been a gamer since I was like you know on my old school black and white Macintosh ah computer growing up and um walking around with my my pocket Tetris keychain and that kind of thing. So always had an affinity for games. And my undergrad degree was in media arts. So I worked a little bit in broadcasting, ended up at the zoo after working through a few communication-based jobs as the...
00:16:08
Speaker
communications manager for the Pittsburgh Zoo. And it was a blast. As you might imagine, I'm a huge animal lover, so much fun. So i what does a communications manager at a zoo do? Well, I managed our commercial production and video production, our website.
00:16:24
Speaker
And at one point we talked about, we got a really cool grant to make an app and a location-based experience. So we talked to a bunch of different studios and we ended up working with a studio called Shell Games. And so for two and a half years, from the zoo's perspective, I project managed the creation of an app that showcased it was an app that you could be looking at the lions and then you could open your app and say, oh, I can identify that lion. but Like it had all of the names of the the animals in it, facts about how old are they, and then general information about like whatever animal you're talking about. There were also mini games throughout the park. So you could be at the primate
00:17:03
Speaker
um building and you could play a ah tick pick game where you pull hold the phone on your siblings back and try to pick their ticks and made all kinds of squishy gross noises. There were some take home at home games that you could play like when the app could say you're not at the zoo right now, like let's do zoo trivia, things like that. So I worked with a very talented team at at Shell to develop this app.
00:17:26
Speaker
And um as we closed on the production of the app, so much fun. i Still loved my position at the zoo, but Shell Games had an opportunity as a producer opening up.
00:17:37
Speaker
And I saw many universally applicable skills and transferable skills from my position at the zoo. to what this new position would require at Shell.
00:17:49
Speaker
So in the meantime, while I'd been working, I also got a master's degree in organizational leadership. And so a lot of those things where I was at the zoo and I'm rallying a group of keepers and administrators and people who i would work with to write newsletter articles and things like that. How do you work with people? How do you make sure that everything that's happening, whether you're developing an app or a commercial, it's happening on schedule, on budget, on time, and you're making sure that that work is continuing to happen. So and especially with working with the the shell team, I thought I could do this. I feel like I could do this. I haven't worked in um in game development per se, but I knew enough about that process. And my sister is a software engineer, so I knew a lot about development from her. And I thought, I'm going to take a leap here and and give it a try. and um
00:18:40
Speaker
And they decided to have me. And so yeah it's been a delightful journey. I look back on my days with the zoo fondly, but um I wouldn't trade it for the world to to not have jumped to shell. I absolutely love game development development and working in a studio and being a part of that process. And now advocating for players.
00:18:59
Speaker
So yeah yeah, starting as a producer and then moving into a role within our product team. It's just been an incredible learning journey, an incredible growth journey, and just a true delight.
00:19:11
Speaker
You have this growth mindset, right? You're able to see the skills that translated. And for example, product management, project management, right? Like you were doing this at the zoo and they translated to the producer role at Shell Games. Did you initially realize that these skills connected? Or once you were there, you realized, oh, this is the same thing I've been doing. This this is just a different name for it.
00:19:34
Speaker
um I think a little bit of little bit of column A, a little bit of column b I think when you're when you're doing a position, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is to say, that's not part of my job. i don't I don't need to learn about that. I think it's fascinating to just keep an open mind and and learn about the other bits and pieces to make the whole because no one is working in isolation. And so that teamwork aspect that was so important at the zoo, um there's a tremendous amount of collaboration that happens in software development and and and game development. So
00:20:07
Speaker
To see that leveraged and to be working with really smart people on on an incredibly creative and talented team, it was really it was really energizing to to be able to play an app and be like, oh my gosh, guys, we made this. This is really cool. um Just from having brainstorms and bringing in different subject matter experts from around the zoo and seeing those ideas transformed into something that was playable and entertaining and fun. It's one thing to to sit there and throw facts at somebody. And usually animal facts, like people do like that. But um to make it a game and to make it something that they can participate actively in, that was really cool. So so to be able to become a part of that journey and to to make games and to support players in those games, it's been it's been really fun to discover all of the different aspects of it and learn a lot along the way.
00:21:00
Speaker
Yeah, you know, coming back to what you were talking about at the zoo, you mentioned something that you can play the zoo app outside of the zoo, right? That means you're engaging with guests once they leave, and that's so important to stay in front of them. and And it's like you realize this aspect of community before you got into the gaming world, saying, hey, I need to keep engaging with these people. So now you work with community, you talk with people, and you're getting these feedbacks. And I'm curious, how was that transition to...
Engaging Zoo Visitors vs. Gaming Communities
00:21:29
Speaker
listening to animals and no and people at the zoo, but to listening to the community, understanding how do I stack rank this? How do I prioritize? How do I make Greg with the silliest requests, make sure he seems like he's hurting? How did you figure out how to work with the community?
00:21:43
Speaker
Sure, sure. Well, one cool thing about a lot of zoos, including the zoo that I worked with, is that it's a nonprofit. And so You wear a lot of hats and you, I found myself a lot of times, not only working with a various number of teams behind the scenes to produce a calendar or a website or a commercial, but also finding myself interfacing with the public. So what do you do when someone came to the zoo and you're like, wow, they have a really good point.
00:22:09
Speaker
I'm supposed to be on deadline to do this, but they wanted to stop and talk about their visit. Everyone is in visitor services when you work at a zoo. So I think taking that kind of a mentality and applying it to player support, which has like a very strong customer service streak to it as well. It's like, let's make sure that our players are supported, but it differs from customer support in that you're then taking all of that information and potentially working with um product managers to build a roadmap of of what might enter development in the future. Development teams who have their own previously scheduled work and you're like, hey, I've got these player logs and there's clearly something going on here. Can we work together? Can I steal some engineering time? And, you know, like, can can you maybe take a look at this? And then they do find a bug that we didn't previously QA. And I'd
00:22:55
Speaker
ah You know, I say that very lightly because our QA team is very talented and they find they find a lot of good stuff. But sometimes when things are out there in a lot in the wild and they're behaving differently because they're in a different, you know, people are playing on on machines in a different time zone or, you know, with a different format, they they can find new stuff. So we want to make sure that we have an ear to the ground to discover new issues. I think it's really important to never discount anything that someone is reporting because you say like,
00:23:23
Speaker
Well, yeah, we've we've never seen a report of this before, but like we should give every single report we get it's due diligence. You never want to write off anything because, um well, this seems silly or or this can't be happening, right? Like we you want to take every report seriously until you vet it otherwise. And I think that's been that's been a big learning for me of like,
00:23:46
Speaker
I'm trying to balance and this. This is where a lot of the skill set that I developed as a producer has been very applicable to player support. Like I want to respect her the the engineers time and I want to respect what we already have on a product road roadmap.
00:24:01
Speaker
But here's something that really came up and I have to as player support care about this because I'm the voice of the players internally at the studio. So let's make sure that they're heard. And i understand that not everything is going to necessarily have time to hit development. but Let's do our due diligence and make sure that we've at least considered that.
Tools and Processes in Player Support
00:24:20
Speaker
When you look at player support, has to differ from ah a VR game to 3D game, unless people are in the quest and trying to navigate text and keyboards within there.
00:24:31
Speaker
how do i don't know if you could talk to the tech stack of kind of some of the tools you use internally, but how do you make it easier and accessible for players to easily reach out, be a part of this community? Do you try and funnel them specifically to Discord or or how does that work?
00:24:45
Speaker
We try to cast a wide net. We have had many discussions internally about, like wow, is there a way, especially for VR players, to submit a ticket with us from within their headset? you know You're on a PC. it's It's more of a trivial ask to say, like hey, can you just type up real quick what happened? Or jump over to our our portal page to submit this bug. That's a lot trickier in VR.
00:25:09
Speaker
And so trying to create systems, like for example, um if players are having a problem with another player, they can hit the report button. That automatically on the backend generates a lot of information for our moderation team. So it gives a timestamp, who else was in the the the match? you know, a lot of times we'll have someone email us afterwards,
00:25:29
Speaker
there was a player that I didn't particularly care for, here's their display name. And like we go to look it up and 20 people have some variant of that display name. Well, first off, we can't act on a report unless there's evidence of a problem. Because unfortunately, sometimes reporting systems can be weaponized against other players. So we want to be cognizant of making sure we make time looking issue looking into a an issue from all perspectives. We don't want to assume that someone is absolutely right with what they're saying. We don't want absolutely say, are you sure that they've said this? We want to make sure that everything is evidence-based and we're doing a holistic job of looking at like everything that happened before doling out any kind of penalties to a player.
00:26:15
Speaker
But we also want to make sure that we are looking into any reports that we're getting of toxicity or hacking or cheating or anything like that. So um So we have some in-game things that that generate reports for our team to to take a look at.
00:26:29
Speaker
Also on the back end, we use for moderation purposes a tool called Toxmod that automatically processes all of the the voice chat that happens within the game and identifies toxicity as well. So we ran the numbers once and we figured out based on the number of players of just like average active users. We'd have to have over 300 moderators in the game listening to it live to do it without the help of this tool. And so it helps us to sift out what we believe to be our most toxic moments in the game and then issue either mutes or bans very quickly based on that evidence. So it's all evidence-based. We do use a lot of tools like that that that help us to get the job done while also making sure that it's done accurately and quickly.
00:27:16
Speaker
Thank you for bringing up Toxmod. That's something i know from Call of Duty. I've we've worked closely with the Modulate team over years, and I'm really curious about real world examples, right? I'm curious if the community had any backlash when they heard about the tools being launched, if you've seen a change for either positive or negative on the engagement between players because of it.
Reducing Toxicity in 'Among Us 3D'
00:27:39
Speaker
And i guess...
00:27:42
Speaker
I don't know how I say this without sounding weird, but was was it worth it? Did you see you see it move the needle in the right direction? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a very good question because we as we were approaching launch, we decided we really can't launch a game with voice chat without some type of moderation in it. And at the point at which we made the very firm decision, like we're going have moderation in this game. It was too late to already add it for launch. So when when Among Us 3D initially launched, it did not have moderation in it. So we were able to retrofit. We worked very hard to quickly retrofit a system in place that could hook into the game and work with Toxmod. So Toxmod does all of the listening, if you will, and the identifying of of any toxic moments, and it escalates any potentially problematic moments. to our proprietary moderation system, which we've called Airlock Admin. From there, our moderators can can review clips and identify where there might be potential toxicity. And for a long while, we we were only able to dole out bans. We have since heard
00:28:49
Speaker
that like from, especially from players like, hey, I'm banned and this is a really, we were doing anywhere from one to seven day bans. And if you kept defending um and violating the code of conduct, you might eventually get a permanent ban.
00:29:02
Speaker
We heard those players say like, this feels a little unfair. I paid for this game. I'd like to be playing it. So we reduced the ban length and then we were able to work in a system of muting as well, which is a lot less punitive than being banned. You can keep playing. You just don't have your microphone. You can hear other players.
00:29:18
Speaker
um And so now we're we're on this much more gentle system. um So all that to say, when we first launched, we had a number of months, which you could use a sample size to say, this is the amount of toxicity in the game. That was our biggest complaint with the game. There are other toxic players. I'm being harassed. I would love to play this game, but it's a little bit of a rough environment. And so we were able to, the game launched in November 2022, we moderation May 23. So may twenty three so about six months later or so, and we saw toxicity at a dramatic reduction in toxicity. um When we first started moderating, we were seeing at around 8% of players getting bans in the first couple weeks. That dropped to 2% after about a month of moderation. so And then it it did gradually kind of go back up. So it was generally between 2% and 5%.
00:30:11
Speaker
And so we believe that that meant that that moderation is working. There are results there. We're we're seeing less identifiable toxicity within the game. And then since then, we we launched within the last year, the muting system.
00:30:24
Speaker
And much more recently, we heard a lot of feedback from players who said, hey, i'm I'm making private lobbies and you're moderating me in my private lobbies. It's like me and my friends playing in a living room.
00:30:35
Speaker
This is not a space that I want you guys listening. We are we would be vulgar in my house. If if this is truly a private lobby, butt out with the moderation. And we thought, you know what, that that's fair.
00:30:48
Speaker
It's also a little tricky because people can share room codes who might not know each other. we want to make sure that we're still keeping an eye on this environment. So we launched the ability to have an unmoderated private lobby.
00:31:00
Speaker
And that's that's very recent. So we're still seeing the efficacy of that, but we have heard some very positive feedback from players. And there's a lot of guardrails on that system as well. So if you're playing with the youth account, you can't join an unmoderated lobby. If you are joining an unmoderated lobby, the room code is very obvious. It starts with an X to let you know.
00:31:20
Speaker
hey, this is not moderated. um You have to opt into unmoderated lobbies. And so we are very explicit that, hey, you're entering this zone where you still have some of the features of being able to report and mute and kick other other players. But we want you to be aware, like, we aren't here to to try and and make sure that everything is adhering to the code of conduct as we would in a moderated lobby.
00:31:44
Speaker
But we've gotten some really positive feedback from players who really want those private spaces. So we've that's just another example of the ways that we've been listening to the community and trying to make sure that those concerns are addressed.
00:31:57
Speaker
As a parent to a parent, you know, I've been doing a lot of research on Roblox recently and understanding they have new IDs. You got to scan your face in order to be able to do voice chat. Would you be okay with your kids, on they're still younger, but like joining lobbies like this when there's moderation communities?
00:32:15
Speaker
put in there? Do you have any hesitations? and now I'll say right now, like I would be okay with my, probably my older one, not my younger one yet. She's only five, but like joining something like this, I'm okay giving up a little bit of privacy to make sure that it's safe for my child.
00:32:34
Speaker
That's a really good question and you you already echoed my answer in your answer. So my kids are eight, five, and three. I think my eight year old is is entering into that space. And one of the nice things is with Among Us 3D, we have the option for parents, if you enter your birth date and it indicates that you are below the age of consent, you you are required to have a parent like okay all of that and as part of that verification process the parent can say all right you can play this game but you can't use voice chat or you know you can't do you have the ability to granularly decide what functionality your child has access to um for example display names are are disabled you just if i'm if i'm the pink bean it just is pink Like it it would not have my display name on it. So I think especially in light of that, we we try really hard to make sure that it's a safe space. And as a parent, I would feel my my eight year old has played the game. he
00:33:31
Speaker
We went to PAX. He had so much fun. We kept getting in the line. I'm like, buddy, we can see other games here. This is like a shell games game. We can play this at home. But he like loved playing it. And it was very exciting. One of his favorite YouTubers has played ah a fair amount of among us. So he's he's like bought in on the concept. I think so much of that, as is true with parenting, comes down to like, what child are you parenting? There are kids who at various ages,
00:33:58
Speaker
would be okay with certain things. And some kids need to be a lot older for that kind of thing. And that's where I think the responsibility to a certain degree does have to fall to the parent to to make, ultimately make that decision. My kid can play this game or like my five-year-old not ready for this. My three-year-old definitely not ready for this, but um like my eight-year-old where he is developmentally right now. Yeah. I would, I would feel comfortable putting him in that game.
00:34:23
Speaker
Looking here, we're recording this, it's ah for people watching, it is December 12th, although it's not coming out on December 12th. And I'm curious, we're coming to the end of the year. And and when you look back at the year, are there any wins that stand out in your head that you can say, this was a, this happened this year, this was great.
00:34:39
Speaker
Sure. I mean, I do think, so you mentioned it's December 12th. Like we just launched the unmoderated private lobbies at the beginning of December. So This is a very fresh concept for us. And I feel really good that we are able to come to come to a solution that hears some of the very valid concerns that that certain members of our community brought to us.
00:35:01
Speaker
I feel like the muting system, which happened earlier this year, a few months back, that is another big one where it it did feel too punitive. you know When we first we first launched the game and we started moderation in 2023, this was a brand new thing for us. So we we kind of took a hard line on things. And then we said, you know what, that was a little unfair. Let's let's modify our practices. Let's continuing continue to evolve theseam you know these guidelines. And I think where we are ending up is, and I want to, we're not ending up anywhere, really. It will continue to be an evolution and an iterative process. But I think when I look back, especially in the last year with those two big like auto mute and unmoderated private lobbies, I feel really good that we were able to take player feedback and do something about it. that ultimately, objectively, makes the game more welcoming to the entire breadth of our audience.
00:35:57
Speaker
that That gets me really excited about it. And just like through throughout the entire process, we've continued to um we've continued to modify our practices. So I think things we've done with Reclaimed Language, I think things that we've done with just supporting the nuance of of a variety of groups has been then big leaps, but most recently, those those new additions. Yeah, that's super cool. I think this is going technology that's going to be around for a while, especially since we're becoming more of ah a vocal community-based, right? We're talking in discords, we're talking in games, right? I think, you know, learning how to use these tools now and getting ahead of it, just so you can say, at least you've tried the training wheels,
Future Goals: Community Engagement and Player Support Tools
00:36:34
Speaker
you know how they work. It puts you on so far ahead of everyone else in this that that i think, more and more people are going to realize that, hey, we need to build a community first to grow whatever product it is. It doesn't need to be a game, but things grow quicker when you're in a community. and Then you have to go roll back and say, hey, how do we moderate this community? right And I think, again, you're experiencing these tools in ah in a vertical gaming, which has to implement it right away because we have a lot of tech city in gaming. it And I think it's super cool how you're testing these tools out, the learnings that you're getting, how you're hearing from the community and how you're kind of iterating it from there.
00:37:03
Speaker
same question but for 2026 are there any goals or big picture items are you like all right i want to try and do this or i want to try and solve this for 2026 i don't know if you fill out okrs just making sure that uh we continue continue to listen to our audience continue to modify our practices and continue to to do the things that have been working really well i i think just keeping an open mind to to answer your question very directly i don't have any concrete new features um to talk about just yet but I know that especially with the tool that we use, Toxmod, with Among Us 3D, I know that it's made by a company called Modulate. They do a great job of of continuing to evolve their product as well to um to better support the community and and making sure that we are identifying toxicity and toxicity only. In 2026, we're going to keep rolling with the punches. and And in all of our both player support efforts and moderation efforts, I think we'll just continue to
00:38:03
Speaker
to listen and see what's working and and improve what isn't. So Laura, I think the last question I have for you today is that you you've transitioned from a zoo to shell games where you were a producer and now you're handling community. And it isn't always clear on what that next step forward is for you. But if someone in your role is thinking about, hey, what would be that next logical step? Have you put thoughts into kind of where your interests lead you next?
00:38:33
Speaker
Well, I mean, right now in player support, I'm very happy. this This position has given me an opportunity to grow something from the ground up. So as I mentioned, yes, I was at the zoo and then I moved over to Shell and worked for ah for a number of years as a producer. And then we didn't have a player support department at that time. So when the opportunity came to build something from the ground up like this, I mean, we had the extent of our player support. We were trying really hard, but we had a number of titles of original IP. And when someone emailed about those titles, it went to sort of a hodgepodge distribution list of directors and producers, and maybe a couple of beeps were on the list in our QA department. And it was kind of like, someone going to get the door? Like, who who's going to answer this one? I'm not entirely sure. Like, this person's on this project now. This person's off. Like, who's going to get back to them?
00:39:23
Speaker
And so that can... that can lend itself to things falling through the cracks. So when I started in player support, it it was first like, a okay, let's come up with a pipeline to make sure that we can talk with our with our players. Let's make sure that when they bring something to our attention, it is both responded to and documented somewhere and then taken back to development teams so that we can we can properly discern if there is something here that needs needs some action.
00:39:53
Speaker
um And so that that was a big initiative. And so now we have that all streamlined. And then along came moderation, when we created Among Us 3D, and we started adding, like, how do we keep our our community safe as well, and making sure that we're supporting them in that regard. So I look forward to continuing to learn about everything from trust and safety to responsible ways to leverage AI so that maybe we can get back to people even faster or um with even better information, even more information.
00:40:25
Speaker
How can we maybe integrate some of these features within our games?
AI Tools for Learning and Technology Adaptation
00:40:29
Speaker
Can we have better player support options if you're in a VR headset and you're having an issue or a question? Can we get back to you much faster without you even having to take the headset off? um So exploring some of those places and just making sure that we are with every step we make, we're saying, how is this best serving the player?
00:40:50
Speaker
And also, how is this integrating with everything else we're doing at the studio to make sure that that can be a nice, seamless, like as easy as possible process? Player your experience all around. When you first play a game, I was told you have about nine seconds, at least with mobile games, to try and capture their attention, right? How do you provide that good experience? How do you make sure they're heard? How do you make sure that you're listening? There's so much to make sure that the player, you can be building the greatest game in the world, but if you're not listening to the feedback from the players, you're going to flop.
00:41:16
Speaker
And I appreciate that answer. i think it's fantastic that that you're recognizing this, seeing this, and and excited by it. I do have another question to add on to that. is that How do you... continue to learn? You know, I've noticed with myself that as I get older, I have my kids and I'm not scouring the web like I used to to try and find all these details. How do you find yourself absorbing information on how to continue to grow?
00:41:39
Speaker
Well, I think we are at a very interesting nexus in history with with so many new AI tools, not created equal, they're not all created equal. But for example, one item like like Notebook LM, if you get if you catch wind of something, whereas I think you and I are are probably of a similar generation, you used to find as many resources, I'm gonna go out and i'm go to try to learn about this and try to commit a lot of this to memory and think about ways that I can apply it. and And there was a huge learning curve for new skills. Now you can plug a concept into Notebook LM, help it
00:42:16
Speaker
It will help you find sources almost immediately. Do they look viable? OK, let me see what I can learn from this. And it's generating an interactive podcast. It's generating like so many new resources. It's making a video for me to watch. I'm i'm asking it to quiz me on on things. OK, now I've really, really committed some of this stuff into my own mind, and I can think about that in a much more dynamic way and and an incredibly blisteringly fast way. um sometimes head spinning way, but there's so much information available to us that I think ah it's it's so quickly available. I remember reading a book during grad school that talked about what the definition of creativity being the intersection of existing ideas and existence, like everything that we've explored before, just finding new intersections for those things. And I think AI is able to to help us do that really, really quickly when used responsibly. so
00:43:15
Speaker
I think part of part of these initiatives of like, well, what is next and how are we going to do that? um I think leveraging some of the tools available is going to yield incredible results with that answer. And I don't know what it is yet, but I'm excited to find out.
00:43:29
Speaker
I share your sentiment with Notebook LM. I think it's one of the greatest things out there. If I have to read a book, which I don't have time for, i could drop it into Notebook LM. And the podcast it creates is just so good. I'm just like, oh God, how is this creating podcasts so well? and like I could go to the gym, plug in, and just like listen to these two people who aren't real engaging in conversation.
00:43:54
Speaker
It is nuts. The one thing that does have me worried, the more I think about it, is like... I love Google Maps. My car hooks up to my Google Maps. And like and I've learned that like i just trust its directions and timing with traffic. And quite frankly, it's usually not right. it sometimes takes you a longer way. or And I'm just thinking like...
00:44:14
Speaker
do we just trust Google Maps at its face now? We don't even look at the direction saying, hey, I can get from point A to C, but I can really go faster if I go this way. And it's just like, I think we're losing some skills and replacing that with just the automation. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing either, right? There's certain things that are just like,
00:44:32
Speaker
They're low enough level where whatever I have to do. But I'm trying i'm starting to think that maybe for younger generations, they're going to start taking shortcuts at some of this stuff. and Again, maybe it won't be a problem, right? Maybe it's one of those things that, you know, back in the day, you had to walk to school. Now there's buses and cars. And maybe you just learn and iterate from there. But I think the technology is great as well as you with the learning, as long as you're making sure that it's giving you that right output, right? I think it's a great way to kind of absorb a lot of information at once in a quicker period.
00:45:02
Speaker
I couldn't agree more and i I share that same concern. And I think something that gives me hope is that, um so like my, my cursive is not nearly as good as my grandmother's cursive, but I can type much faster than she could. And so I think the world and the requirements of the world will continue to shift as well. And my hope is that that delta of like, oh no, we've lost this. Well, the covered wagon is, I don't drive a good covered wagon, but like I can figure out a manual. So it, you know, manual transmission. It's, I think the the transition to to new skills and hopefully things like quickly discerning what is a credible source as I'm trying to learn something. Or you know i've I've used Gemini for for some Python coding. I can't write i can write basic HTML. and And so being able to learn a little bit about that along the way, i think we're at an exciting time and there will be some refinement.
00:46:02
Speaker
But I do think that it will buoy everyone, hopefully. I mean, maybe that's too optimistic, but I do think that um in time, hopefully our kids' generation will, they'll be able to really soar much faster than than then we have.
00:46:18
Speaker
Laura Hall, I had so much fun with today's conversation. I'm sorry if I mentioned zoo too much, but it was super exciting. But I just love your whole story, on how you've learned, how you've grown, how you've implemented these tools, how you kind of witnessed everything happen. Before we do end today, you want to share where people can find you or Shell Games?
00:46:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, to stay up to date with all things Shell Games, our Discord is the place to be. ah you can You can chat with us and and find out all of the upcoming events. Everywhere on social media, Shell Games is all over the place there. If you reach out to player support, if you have any questions about anything you heard today, um I'd be happy to answer you that way as well. So you can do that through shellgames.com.
00:47:02
Speaker
And it has been an absolute delight for having this conversation. Thank you so much for having me, Greg. Of course, we'll have Laura's information as well as Shell Games at the PlayerDriven blog or website, whatever we're calling it these days. And we'll be talking about it for the whole bunch of days after that. So Laura, again, it's Friday. You're off today. Thank you so much for joining us. i hope you have a great rest of the the weekend or great weekend. And we'll talk again soon.
00:47:25
Speaker
Thanks. And the same to you and all the listeners.