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Building Media That Lasts 20 Years with Chris James, CEO of Steel Media
16 Plays1 hour ago
What does it actually take to build a media and events business that survives multiple platform shifts, economic cycles, and industry hype waves?
In this episode of Player Driven, Greg sits down with Chris James, CEO of Steel Media and the force behind Pocket Gamer and Pocket Gamer Connects, to break down two decades of hard-earned lessons at the intersection of games, media, business, and live events.
Chris shares how Steel Media evolved from traditional games journalism into a global conference platform, why focus beats scale early, and why in-person connections still matter in a Zoom-first world. This conversation is packed with practical insights for founders, operators, and anyone building a long-term business in games or tech.
Whether you are running a studio, launching a startup, or trying to scale a media brand, this episode cuts through hype and gets real about what actually works.
Key Topics Covered
• Building a focused media business instead of trying to do everything
• The hardest moments of running a company and knowing when to cut losses
• Why live events still drive trust and real business outcomes
• Hiring decisions that unlock the next stage of growth
• The long-term outlook for games despite short-term industry negativity
Key Takeaways with Timestamps
1) Focus beats ambition early
Trying to be everything to everyone kills momentum. Sustainable growth starts with doing one or two things exceptionally well.
⏱️ 00:00 – 02:45
2) Knowing when to shut things down matters
Sunk cost fallacy is real. Closing projects, even good ones, is often the most responsible leadership decision.
⏱️ 02:55 – 05:15
3) The games industry is bigger than the doom narrative
Despite layoffs and turbulence, gaming continues to grow as both a business and a creative medium.
⏱️ 06:30 – 08:40
4) In-person events still create trust faster than digital
Meetings, shared spaces, and real conversations remain critical for deal-making and long-term relationships.
⏱️ 11:00 – 15:30
5) Hiring should remove bottlenecks, not add comfort
Your first hires should unlock growth by covering gaps, not cloning your own skill set.
⏱️ 35:15 – 37:45
If you care about the business of games, the future of media, and how to build something that lasts longer than the current hype cycle, this episode is for you.
🎧 Listen now and join the Player Driven community for more conversations like this.
Recommended
Transcript
Player Driven's Vision for 2026
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Player Driven and Happy New Year. As we head into 2026, I'm setting the goals really high to continue to grow Player Driven, the community and the platform. 2025 was a year of building the foundation. We focused on frameworks, conversations, figuring out really what Player Driven is and what it can become. And this year we're now going to build on top of that.
00:00:20
Speaker
From best practices shared from some of the brightest minds in the industry to the tips and lessons coming directly from the community. A lot of the best insights already exist around us. The more we share them, the clearer the possibilities become.
00:00:33
Speaker
Our Discord has been growing and we'd love for you to come join us. It's a space where we swap tips, talk shop, and honestly just connect over the things we care about.
Introduction to Chris James & Steel Media
00:00:41
Speaker
I'm excited to see that community continue to grow throughout 2026 and you can find the link to it in the show notes or at playerdriven.io.
00:00:49
Speaker
Today's guest is Chris James, the CEO of Steel Media. Steel Media is behind Pocket Gamer and Pocket Gamer Connects, the events happening and conferences happening all around the world. This year marks 20 years of Pocket Gamers, and they're kicking things off with Pocket Gamers Connects London on January 19th and 20th.
Common Mistakes in Media Founding
00:01:07
Speaker
In this episode, k Chris and I break down what's working in the industry right now, why these important events still matter, and just get a ton of great insights that that we can use. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you start this new year off strong, and we'll talk again soon.
00:01:26
Speaker
So maybe you could tell us the biggest mistakes that you see a media founder making when trying to build up their business. Yeah, um biggest mistakes. I think trying to trying to do too much is
Challenges in Early Steel Media Days
00:01:39
Speaker
definitely the thing. I think people trying to say they're going to be everything to everybody. And the reality is you should do one or two things really well.
00:01:45
Speaker
How long did it take you to figure out what those one or two things you do really well are? Still working on that. um No. Yeah, I don't know. i imagine. Yeah, I think we realized when we started um trying to do this, we were coming out of... um News Time Media and we were doing magazines for future publishing and all the team and we yeah just wanted to do started doing web we didn't know hadn't done websites before it was this is a long time it's 20 years so not everybody was doing websites right in the same way at the time and and yeah we just thought we'd be able to loads of different ones and we'd try loads things out and the reality is tech is hard harder than you think always and the internet is a gaping maw that never never never hungers for content so
00:02:32
Speaker
So I think i think we decided... We kind of dropped a lot of things and focused in on on the Pocket Gaming Consumer White website when we started. And then, yeah, that that kind of... um That did quite well. And then we just saw we kind of built off that. We had a few other sites we we launched at the same time. One was about other mobile stuff. And we had like four or five different ideas. and we've still got a couple of secondary sites. But yeah, once once you see something getting traction and and you're comfortable with it and you and you can see where it can go, i think that's when you kind of try and, you know, I think that's pretty standard for most businesses if you You can try a few things initially, but really you want to focus on being really good at a thing where you think there's an opportunity. And then once part of that gets traction, you just kind of then push against that. Right.
00:03:20
Speaker
um I think it's that useful advice. I don't know. Yeah. You know, you
Understanding When to Cut Losses
00:03:24
Speaker
you've been doing this now 20 years. Congratulations. and i know savan ah Is there one moment that stands out as the hardest moment of running steel media?
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, any startup company, you go through times where you have to, um yeah, you have to kind of cut costs, right? And you have to let some people go and shell some stuff. and weve weve We've definitely done that, like, maybe twice over 20 years. not Not by everybody, but there was a time when we weren't getting, the senior staff weren't, you know, weren't getting paid for a little while and, you know,
00:03:56
Speaker
yeah we we we come to the conclusion that you know the we needed to really close down our burn rate, as the kids say nowadays. and um
Overhyped Trends in the Gaming Industry
00:04:04
Speaker
you know and And yeah, we had to let a few people go. We thought we were really good.
00:04:08
Speaker
I think that closing projects, for me personally, is the thing I absolutely hate. i like I like open doors. I like poss positive ah possibilities and and opportunities. And whenever you've closed something down, especially if you think you still think there was something in it, but you just can't find a way to make it viable, I think that's always difficult. But yeah, it's it'll be usually be related to letting people go, which we haven't had do for quite a while now. And that that's that's, you know, that's never great because you feel responsible for them. And, you know, and obviously if you hire them, you think they're pretty good. So you don't want them to go. But yeah, that's probably the hardest part. I was reading about this whole, it's not the best analogy, but I was reading about the sunk cost fallacy and how it's related to gambling. Sometimes when you're gambling and you're so far deep into it, you don't want to give up. Even if you know you have the losing hand, you're just going to ride it out till till you die. But the truth is, when you realize that you have a losing hand,
Cultural Insights and Humor
00:05:03
Speaker
and even if you've already committed to a certain amount of money to it, sometimes it's better to just cut your costs there. lost a and Whether it be a service or a product or a feature that you're building, if you realize it's not hitting the mark, right? Even if you invest money into it already. Well, it's like, yeah, exactly. it's like shares, right? If your if your shares ah have gone below the price you pay, then that's bad, but they can always go lower, right? So that you should always sell shares. I'm not, this is not financial advice, but but yeah, exactly. Second class file. You've got to try and think, and that's difficult about what's right for right now and what's, you know, and the and then the near future.
00:05:36
Speaker
And yeah, we we we were we're having to you have to do that. You have to sometimes just go, well, we really love this idea. We think it's cool. But we have to just you know shut it down. Maybe you can come back to in the future, but probably you don't. So that is tough. Yeah, yeah, that's tough.
00:05:50
Speaker
So one of the things you guys do at Steel Media is you have a football, soccer, as we call it here in the States, based platform as well. And when we were talking on our pre-call, we were talking about football, football, football. I was wondering if you can say something nice about American football. ah There's a lot of breaks in it. and i think i think i think i think you know i think it's verys it's very strategic. I kind of like it.
00:06:14
Speaker
I've been watching a thing called Chad Powers. Have you seen Chad Powers? I've not watched it, but I'm very familiar
The Growth and Resilience of Gaming
00:06:20
Speaker
with it's kind of great I'm sure has absolutely got nothing... Nothing like American Football at all. It's kind of a comedy thing. But but yeah, have to find that question. I have watch i used to to watch the Dolphins. i yeah Dan Marino, that was when I used to watch it. so i just don't you know I think it's i think it's it's a it's um yeah it's a tactical game. It's just a strategic game played out with with people. right so Can you ah tell me one trend you think going on in the industry right now that you think everyone's overhyping?
00:06:47
Speaker
AI, it's going to go nowhere. no that's not That's not true. That's absolutely not true. I think i think they they did overhype Web3. I definitely felt, and I didn't i don't hate Web3. That was overhyped, and I could feel it at the time it was overhyped.
00:07:00
Speaker
I think AI is different because you know it will is having an an effect right now, and you can see the way it can where it can go, and it will have more of an effect. Maybe. i don't know if they're underhyping. I think... um yeah What's the trend? That's good question. i don't know i yeah It's hard to look at be beyond anything other than AI for overhype, underhype, every hype. That seems to be the the one common thing that's coming up. I think one thing people are overhyping, and I don't know it's a trend, but it's ah it's a discussion point, is is the the the negativity about the industry and and in certain quarters and the and the fact that the the games industry is
00:07:36
Speaker
you know is is struggling and i i don't i know that individuals are struggling i know people are losing jobs and that's awful and you know a lot of people lost jobs um but the the and industry the games business and video games is is ah a growing art form it's a growing business the opportunities the overall value is growing and and i think you know we've gone through some rough waters um but i i i think that when people over talk down and that's not that's the
Career Journey and Steel Media's Growth
00:08:06
Speaker
opposite to hype i guess that that i don't like because i think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy right because then if you're constantly bit oh i'm not sure and i'm not going to this don't think i can invest in that and maybe we shouldn't do this which is you know there are good reasons for all those things but then that is infectious and then you know the publisher the developer or the investors will all get on in this and everyone's a bit oh well you know maybe it's a bit
00:08:27
Speaker
that kind of doom and gloom thing, which I think going back to not American football, but America, I think one thing America is always good at is is is optimism. And, you know, whether it's whether it's absolute bullshit or whether it's genuine upbeat approach, you know, and that whole fake it, you make it thing and just talking things up is something that the US is much better at typically. And I i think the rest of the the games industry needs to be, I think, a bit more like that at the moment, a bit more, bit positive. So, yeah, know that's helpful, but...
00:08:57
Speaker
Awesome. Well, welcome to Player Driven. Greg here. I am super excited about today's conversation. We are going to dive more into the world of conferences. And today we're talking to the CEO of Steel Media, Chris James. If you've ever been to a pocket game or event anywhere globally, they are put on by Steel Media. And I am super excited to dive into this. Chris has been running it for now 20 years. This is the 20th anniversary. Congratulations. And before we dive too deep into your full story, do you want to say hi and do a quick introduction of yourself?
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, 20 years man and boy. You get less for manslaughter, right? um So it's, yeah, 20 years, been running
The Value of In-Person Networking
00:09:35
Speaker
Steel Media, which was consumer media um and BB Media. and pocket So yeah, and before that, I was ah i was a journalist. um This is actually kind of the third...
00:09:45
Speaker
startup business involved in i was a journalist for future publishing i didn't start that um for many years did all the games magazines in the uk and some in the us like edge and pc gamer and then all that stuff um and then co-founded a contract publishing agency and then i um So I worked there working for other people. we I used to make Blockbuster Movies magazine. I used to, in the UK, Blockbuster, remember that? That's aging me, right? That's definitely aging me. I remember when Netflix was a was a a service which would send things in a little envelope your house, send DVDs. That's how old am. But um but yeah, yeah know've i've I've always loved a few things. love the football and i love the games industry. And so I've tried to build careers around that. And yeah, 20 years ago, I got...
00:10:28
Speaker
I left one company, sold out of that, and I got some friends together to to start this. And, nu yeah, it's it's gone pretty well. I mean, we're still here. You know, we're not i'm not I'm not Elon Musk, ah thank God. i'm not But I'm not a billionaire. I don't his money. But we're still here. And and I think that's...
00:10:45
Speaker
you know We must be doing something right. we we're we're' you know We're having up some of our biggest years ever.
Entrepreneurial Lessons and Skills
00:10:49
Speaker
We're giving a lot of people opportunities in the industry and and hopefully helping in terms of our company, but also hopefully helping the industry and supporting it as but as best as we can wherever we can. So, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's something about those in-person events, being able to shake hands, to have a drink, chat with people. It is the true difference maker. And I think... you know No matter what industry you go into, what time of day it is, you know we have Zooms, we have different ways we can connect with people, but there's still something about being in the room. you know We were watching the Game Awards last night and just watching people like be together, and it's such a difference maker. and you know You were a journalist that built up a...
00:11:28
Speaker
ah a media company that does conferences globally now. And that's so cool. And I'm curious, how do you know you're ready to take that first step? And the answer is going you know, you never know you're ready, but how do you find that motivation to push yourself to take that first step?
00:11:42
Speaker
Oh, I think with me, it's probably the same with a lot of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs is a very fancy word, but a lot business starters. Frustration. I think it was born, I'd been doing, the reason I kind of left Future go into this contract publishing age, you do these magazines for people like Sony Pictures and Blockbuster and various other people, PC World, Virgin. was because I was frustrated at a lack of progress within a particular company. I couldn't see where I was going to go. And I always wanted to do more. And then the reason I got back into doing this was because I was frustrated because I wanted to be doing consumer media and not working for companies, making things for companies for their own media. So I think frustration was a big driver.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, and nothing happens overnight either. You know, you you can make the decision overnight, but it took a while to persuade people to to to come in with me. so some people in jobs, they gave up. I was in a job which I gave up. as There was six of us when we founded it. Like six people is a lot to found a company with. That would be a thing. i'll be a tip. Six is maybe too many is a discussion. I love all of them, but um it became four quite quickly. Actually, it was within a year. We'd a couple of people had decided it wasn't for them.
00:13:03
Speaker
But yeah, I guess how did I decide? Yeah, i you know I was frustrated. I wanted to do more. I felt I could do more. And I wanted to have a go at it myself. And I thought, why not? And I think the why not and and not knowing the difficulties. I think because come from, we I came from and some magazines before to to websites.
00:13:22
Speaker
if If I had years working in websites, I'd be less blah. At the time, it was a much younger web site. economy but if i'd had more time doing that i'd probably been a bit more cautious because like i didn't know what i didn't know right and i think i think a lot of the time founders do that or they launch into a thing they know a bit about but they don't know everything and partly that's why because they don't know all the pitfalls that helps to begin with so yeah a bit frustration bit of naivety yeah and and i'm wanting to to make a mark i guess so yeah
00:13:54
Speaker
This might be a hard question to ask in hindsight, but what were the skills you possessed at the time? and what did you quickly have to teach yourself on how to do better? um Yeah, well, that's an interesting, that's a very good question, actually. I was, in
Importance of Continuous Education
00:14:07
Speaker
within the company, a lot of us were creatives.
00:14:11
Speaker
Everyone's creative. We're all creative, little special angels, right? Little stars. But no, we're all creators. We're writers or designers or sub-editors or whatever. And there wasn't really a salesperson, so I had to become a but salesperson, which...
00:14:23
Speaker
I quite enjoy now. I don't write much these days, but I, someone had to, we realized we actually had to have money coming in. So someone had to go out there and, and do the business development and do the sales stuff. And so that was a skill I had to have. I think I was a, it was, I was an okay journalist. I wasn't especially brilliant or bad. And, um you know, I think what my skill that I had, and I think, again, this is useful for entrepreneurs, is the, is kind of the ability to kind of see things a bit in the round and piece things to to kind of gather. That's kind of how you see opportunities often is that you see, well, this is already a big industry and that's a big industry and this thing's happening, but nothing, there's a big gap there. And, and just be able to see that, you know, i could do this project with that client and we could do this or, or I could, there't there's, there's, there's, see that gap. I think that's something that I've realized
00:15:12
Speaker
as I've gone on is is not as common. And the other thing I've realized isn't as that' common is the ability to think on the creative value side and on the sales side, because usually people are very business or they're very creative and they don't want to get involved with the dirty business or they don't want to get involved with all those creative idiots over there who want to make money. So being able to span those two, um I'm not saying i I'm exceptionally good either, but being able to span those two was was useful, I think.
00:15:37
Speaker
How do you... Which question do I want to ask? How do you continue to teach yourself and educate yourself on topics like this? As in topics like, you mean the industry or doing? I guess, you know, you talked about the sales side of things and having to educate yourself on sales, right? And realized that as we get older, it's harder to kind of continue that education.
00:15:55
Speaker
I think, yeah, I would say what happens when you get older and especially you've been doing the same company for a long time, especially if you're quite senior, when there's not a lot of other places to go, um you end up getting more and more narrow in in your focus. um And so you get you get kind of good at what you're doing, but only within the very fine confines of your thing. you know I might be a terrible sales or business development person or CEO, whatever, in another company. yeah But within what I do, I've got quite good at
Staying Innovative at Steel Media
00:16:23
Speaker
that. how I think you train yourself by doing it. What what I've tried to do, ah two things. One is
00:16:29
Speaker
It's just staying in touch with what's going on in the wide industry. Like I will always look at other people's events. I will look at, I'll go to events as much as I can. I will i will be constantly on LinkedIn. Like I'm i'm a LinkedIn junkie in the way that other people, maybe TikTok or whatever. I would just constantly scroll. I'll be doom scrolling. And that's not a healthy thing, but it it just means that stuff, you absorb stuff and it goes in. And that helps. i don't know if it's training, but it helps me,
00:16:55
Speaker
be aware of like stuff that's going on and and whether I should be concerned about it or there's an opportunity or whether it's, it's, it's, it's just knowing it. um That's one thing. I think the other thing is doing new stuff. And and that is, again, maybe that's the entrepreneur in me or or the creative in me or whatever, but like,
00:17:12
Speaker
You know, the fact that we did a consumer website, we all agreed. The fact that we did the B2B website, I was kind of driving that. The fact that we did, we did magazines for for mobile phone operators to convince them, to convince people how to download mobile games.
00:17:26
Speaker
That's how, we this is pre-iPhone and everything, where it was it was a pain in the ass to get games and products on your phone. um and so we worked with operators and and had we had an incredible deal where we were our scores were if you went to don't know vodafone or what's what's the big what's the big Verizon AT&T Verizon yeah i mean we it wasn't we were we're in Europe not in the US but yeah we went to Verizon if if you so went to Verizon and saw here's the games and here's pocket gamer scores next to it that was incredibly lucky for us it was it was a good deal but it was like
00:17:57
Speaker
we were suddenly became really important because like, obviously if you give something five stars, then it's more likely to be downloaded. So what was my point? I've lost my thoughts, but yeah, doing different things. So yeah, I'm always trying to do like every year and try and do a couple different things, whether that's,
00:18:12
Speaker
Try and branch out into a new area. Like this year, we're doing doing a Transmedia Summit and an Apps Business Summit alongside Pocket Gaming Connects in London. So those are kind of new angles or whether it's modifying the format and trying something different, like a new side of the fringe or whether it's going somewhere new. Like again, this year we're going to have, I'm sure we'll talk about, we've got 10 events going out, which the most we'll ever have, and we've got a couple of new locations.
00:18:36
Speaker
So um'm I'm particularly interested. We did Middle East last couple of years, a lot of experimentation in there. And now Asia, we're kind of up our Asian game at the moment as well. So you that keeps me fresh. I guess how I learn is by doing new stuff. yeah yeah I don't have any formal qualifications of anything. I'm not even, I wouldn't even get a journalist degree. i't um I'm sure there's other things. I didn't actually. make Maybe you're an American. i but Yeah, i'm an I'm an English, exactly. maybe mur I'm an i'm English literature graduate. That's all I had. And then I got a Is it wild to see how much the business has grown since you started it? You have a full website now. You have kind of gaming content on there along with the the conference well. like Is it kind of wild to you?
00:19:18
Speaker
That's an interesting point because I don't look it like that. Have you got kids? I do. i have two. right So you know how you don't Like day to day, you don't see how your kids grow as much as like when your like grandparents come or something, they go, oh, he's like four higher. It's a bit like that, isn't it? Like things just kind of, just or you don't see how how you age, like until suddenly you see a photo. Like, yeah, I don't really look but reflect on it that much. i i'm I'm proud of what we've achieved.
00:19:44
Speaker
What I really like is when people that I've never met before go oh, I'll go and meet them. They go, oh, yeah, okay. We go, okay, well, that's nice. I don't feel I should get that sort of response, but I appreciate it. um Yeah, and I like the halo. kind of proud of the halo we've built than the specific
Impact of Mobile Gaming
00:20:01
Speaker
things. I think that we've built the brand up to hopefully be trusted and and to to you know stand for something that's kind of championing the industry.
00:20:09
Speaker
i you know like Like anybody that's running an event, I'm also someone, or a business, I'm also someone that sees... more the threats and the problems as much as the opportunities right you just or what you've done you kind of you can't spend i do spend a bit of time reflecting but not much you kind of have to keep looking ahead because there's always a new thing i was a print journalist then print journalism to be honest that's not the business it was right and and no web web journalism is not the business it was either you know it's all now it's short form video it's podcasts it's social media you know it's it's you know at some point there'll be something else that comes along i'll be like
00:20:45
Speaker
the thought channel or something that you, but i mean, there's there's going to be something new that this is the one thing i always kind of slightly comforts me when I think, God, look at these YouTubers is go, well, at at some point they'll be going, God, look at these YouTubers, whatever this new thing is. Right. And because there will be something new and it's relentless, the progress.
00:21:01
Speaker
um So yes. So am I happy about what we've done? Yes, and um'm um you know it's it's great. we're still I'm just happy we're still going and we compare everybody and we're what kind of growing. how How far the industry's gone is amazing. like The mobile games industry especially, which is not everything we do, but it was where we we kind of formed, obviously, a Pocket Gamer. And that is incredible. From from from like things being so hard to make money at all, so hard to even get a game out and get people download it to have like you know if you have If you made a million...
00:21:34
Speaker
quid with the game um back in when we started that would be a huge huge success now people are passe about making a billion dollars you know and a one and and and yeah they spent a lot more to get there whatever but it's the the the fact that now three billion people are playing mobile phone games The industry is over $100 billion. dollars It's the biggest part of the games industry. That is always a thing when I kind of i look at. um I have this slide. I do my little intro for my conferences. I often do an intro. and and um what i when i do I don't do it every time, but when I do these kind of referential things, I might do it this year because it's 20 years, but looking back and talking a bit about the past, I go, can you imagine what $100 billion could you you know can we even imagine what a hundred billion dollars would look like back then? And then I show this picture, this slide of a Zimbabwe and $100 billion dollar note. And I go, OK.
00:22:26
Speaker
less impressive than you think, right? But, but you know, it was, some yeah. Anyway, so.
Industry Trends Shaping Events
00:22:31
Speaker
Have you I answers the question. I talk a lot. No, but I love, i mean, with what you're saying in mobile gaming, right? Because mobile gaming transformed the game transformed what the gaming industry is, right? It expanded what a game is. Did you see the different events that you host start to conform to different trends?
00:22:49
Speaker
You know, you're both hoping to educate the industry about new things, but also follow, right? Like, it's... it's It's a bit like being a YouTuber, right? Yeah, yeah you want to feel that you're breaking a new game, but equally, everyone's playing Fever Fortnite and Roblox, then that's what you're doing, because that's where the the the eyeballs are. So so yeah, you know as an event organized, by any sort of media type operation, because I do think events, it's just a different kind of media, really. That that that you you know You have to look at what people want to know about. you know They want to know about user and user acquisition. that The mobile UA and and the marketing and and the data side of that is so advanced. It was so insanely advanced. I kind of understand bits of it, but some of it, is always a new kind of... um
00:23:34
Speaker
sort of a tag word or code sorry a new slang was where it comes up i' i've got no idea what people are talking about it come and go you've got your your cbds and your tbo's i'm going right i don't know what those things are but yes that sounds great but there's always a new thing and and but it's so it there's a whole subset of the industry that's focused entirely on that on the on the the ua side of it and the the the monetization and and that rate of when you get a return and how you might market market cohorts and and And it's incredible how that that happened. Like people could, you could get to a point where you could go, i want to I want to promote this particular offer to, you know, 40-year-old women in Texas that have got to level five of Candy Crush. And my game's a bit like that.
00:24:17
Speaker
So I wouldn't hit them with this offer. And you could. Apple changed that made it a bit harder with some of the changes. But but that
Relevance of Pocket Gamer Events
00:24:25
Speaker
stuff was interesting. So we we covered a lot of that. You know, investment's always interesting.
00:24:29
Speaker
We're always interested by new technology and and the games industry, one of the its real successes and one of the reasons it will always continue to flourish, I think, is that it always tends to embrace new stuff. Like it's embracing AI.
00:24:44
Speaker
Most games series I know, i work with AI right now, but you know, When a new bit kit comes out, of the first things is, how can we get a game on it? you know like try People try for ages to get proper games. Apple Watch didn't quite come out in the end. But phones, it's like, oh, how can we get a game on it? you know how And I think it was to Steve Jobs' immense frustration that the actually the things that made the most money on his sir on his phones were not music, which he loved, but were games he didn't really understand. But games are already very good at co-opting that stuff, co-opting new technologies. And I think, so we'll always we'll always cover that, whether that's, you know, VR or the metaverse or Web3 or AI or or, you know, whatever the the next thing is. and
00:25:25
Speaker
So, yeah. So I think in answer, are we shaped? which We try and shape. We try and have a bit of forward-looking space. And then we try and, you know, we obviously follow what what the key trends are. And I think you have to do that. You have to...
00:25:39
Speaker
You know, people come, like I could say, People come to our shows ultimately because they want to do business. That's our first thing, right? Our whole thing is built around a meeting system. We have multiple fringe events where people can, different types people, investors and others, publishing developers, and media and developers, they can connect in different ways. And we have this central meeting system and hundreds of meet of meeting tables because that is bringing people together and having meetings. Then you've got the talks, which educate people and the expo where people can can sell. But that...
00:26:11
Speaker
you know that that is I guess it's it's it's getting business done, connecting to do business, and then learning new trends. And then i guess kind of you know having a bit fun as well. like We do try and hope that we also, it's a fun thing.
00:26:25
Speaker
I'm going to mix these next two questions together and make it a two-parter. So I want to know why Pocket Gamers still matters 20 years later. And I'm curious if there's a specific Pocket Gamers events that you're excited about going to every year. Is there like a specific one?
00:26:39
Speaker
Wow, why does Pocket Games still matter? Wow, God, do i why am i why am I still here? um like Well, I think because that the, you know... we met Why the event matters is because we are still trying to do what we've always done. We're trying to bring the entire games ecosystem together or a cross-section, not all of the people in the world, to to to to share information and and to and to connect with people they might not always meet as well, which I think that's a key part of what we try and do. We try and make, like I can say, it's not just about
00:27:12
Speaker
ua um It's not just about C-level people or just about publishers. It's it's everybody from from indie developers and and students, all the next generations, I see them all the way through to to the the super wealthy investors and and AAA CEOs. We we we want everyone to come in one place. So I think...
00:27:30
Speaker
As long as we can facilitate that, I think we're relevant because I think, and I think that people want to meet as well. So that makes us relevant. I think people want whatever technologies you have, people will always want to meet face to face to do business. Maybe, maybe there will be a point where we have our robots doing it for us or we have, we're in the metaverse and we're doing it then, but still there'll be
Excitement About Conference Locations
00:27:51
Speaker
some sort of contact. I think I i don't think that's, I think this, this will be one of the last dominoes to fall because I, I,
00:27:58
Speaker
You know, that there's a there's ah a trust and there's a, is that you know, we're social animals. And I think i think that face-to-face is going to take a while to to to be eroded. that I don't think it, and maybe it never will. So I think as long as we can continue to provide you know insight into what's happening now help people improve the games business now tell them about cool stuff that's coming down the track they might not have heard up and help them connect with other people then i i think we'll we're relevant i i think we're actually better now than we were when we started um i remember very clearly the first event i remember people coming up to me going this is really great and i was like going yeah it is but there's
00:28:37
Speaker
a hundred things I want to do better next year already, you know, but I think I don't, I still, there's still a hundred things I want to do better, but I think we do the fundamentals really well. And and I think we, you know, i think we're getting better and each, each, each iteration. I think we're kind of getting better, right? I guess, you know, so,
00:28:55
Speaker
So that's why I think it's relevant. And and you know our biggest event is the event coming up in January is Pocamac. It's London. We're expecting about 3,000 people this year. It's not as big as Gamescom, but it's the biggest one in the UK. And that's a lot of people. You're not going to meet 3,000 people in two days. You're not going meet... you know, it doesn't matter whether 3,000 or 40,000 there. But what brings out a lot of the top names, companies in the ecosystem into one place with, like I say, the next generation of talent. And with this year, people from the apps world, we've got people like kind of Duolingo coming in and Booking.com. And there's loads other people from apps. um and they people and And in the transmedia, we've got Netflix and,
00:29:33
Speaker
epic them about what they're doing and some film studios some musicians. and yeah we just we're We're bringing them together and creating that melting pot. I think London that I'm excited about because it's it's big and because it gets a vibe.
00:29:44
Speaker
There'll be a point where I'm walking around and it's just buzzing and like everyone's kind of hopefully happy and I just get that Zen moment like it's like, i'm yes, what kind of work here is done right and that that doesn't happen usually until just a couple of hours in when we're just everything's just going and flowing and no stress anymore. And um yeah, so that's exciting. I'm excited about that always always love the London that's my hometown. Barcelona is my second city, um love that as well. My my wife's from Barcelona, we spend a lot of time there as well. I was so proud of putting on, I put so much of myself into that last year and we launched it. um
00:30:21
Speaker
And we got about 1000 people, which is for a launch event is is is is very good. I would say that, right so but we we don't usually hit 1000 awards in the first time, that's not it's very under common. unless there's something else going alongside it. And and yeah, and and the vibe there was great. And I'm really looking forward to going back there.
00:30:39
Speaker
Helsinki also is is our sec is ah also our a longest running show. And we owe a lot of what we do, we owe to Finland. So I'm always very grateful for the people of
Dealing with Imposter Syndrome
00:30:48
Speaker
the Finns. You know, a lot of some of our model we took out of the what I saw at the Helsinki IGDAs, just the way that they were so open as a culture games culture, as a community. And that flat level of everyone just together in one place. You know, you'd see people like Ulker and Peter Westerbacher talking to students or the competitors and showing them their games. And always that was incredible. um
00:31:13
Speaker
So, yeah, excited about that. And also new ones. I mean, you know, we're doing ah a small thing in in in Malmo this year. It's a summit we're doing one in Bangkok, which I've been trying to get going in Southeast Asia for a while. So yeah, it was going back the Middle East. I like all of them, I guess. um you know I like all of my children equally. um But yeah.
00:31:31
Speaker
There's so much I want to talk about on what you said there. And I'll try and narrow it down to ah two two things that really stood out to me. One is ah you didn't use these words specifically, but do you ever get over this idea of imposter syndrome? You know you put on an event, you have a record number of people and you still think to yourself like, ah did I really hit the mark here? like Can you get over that hump?
00:31:51
Speaker
I, that's a good, uh, imposter syndrome is, I think everyone has imposter syndrome a lot of the time. Um, you know, and I think it's a healthy thing. Like I, I go on, so I tend to present a talk at the start of all of our shows one day, maybe i won't, but I have done. And I, that's the thing I do. It's part of my preparation for the event as well. And also gives me a chance to bone up on what think is interesting in the industry.
Team Collaboration and Success
00:32:16
Speaker
um and and And I also present our awards, which is much more work. So I try and be sort of funny in that as well, because you like I'm replacing what should be a painful comedian is me instead. But both those things, I find when i come on, I'm like really, I get a angsty before. and it's The day before or the evening before is all really stressy. um So I even, and I've been done it and I do similar things, you know, i that doesn't go away. And i think I think that's because you care about a thing. I don't think you ever...
00:32:46
Speaker
if you I think if you if you were just constantly like you know confident or thought you just nailed it, I think that's probably the sign that it's all going about to go tits up. Pardon my French, I don't why said that. It's all about to wrong. Because I think that whole pride before a fall and everything, I think, and maybe it's a British thing as well, but we tend to be a little bit more self-effacing maybe.
00:33:12
Speaker
Not as much as the Finns, but but but still. And and I think
00:33:18
Speaker
don't know about Imposter is an interesting one. I think having done it for 20 years, I kind of feel, well, yeah, you know, weve we must have something right. But it's also not
Strategy for Initial Startup Hires
00:33:26
Speaker
me, right? This is the thing that I do try and make.
00:33:29
Speaker
It's my money, ah my face on the money. You've seen the money, right? Have you seen the money before? I have not. Not that I'm remembering. You've not seen the money. So there we have to show you this. This is our currency for drinks at the events, at Pocket Game events. People keep these. people We've gone through a few different iterations and people have them. Nice. So if you want to get a drink at one of our parties, you need a voucher. They get given out of the door, but then you can, if you keep hold of them, you can come back to another one in the future and you know in-game dlc or in-game marketplace it's the only currency that's actually that's completely stayed it's it's one tokens one drink right so we've inflation proof um but yeah but even though like you're interviewing me we're talking about me it's this whole thing there's there's a lot of ah very talented people that work incredibly hard all time to do it from the design team with kind of like jess and paul and dave on the manager of the production he's the ceo at the moment and and
00:34:23
Speaker
Our kind of events team is, you know, Karis and Eleanor and Joe and and then, you know, Daisy and and Charlie and Jow and there's hundreds people. keep on going. But there's there's a whole team that's really ah sort of um making the magic happen and facilitating it.
00:34:41
Speaker
And, you know, I might drive it and try and try and make them do more. and try and go hey who needs who needs time off we can do another event but but i can't you know without that team if i was to stop this now and go and start a new business tomorrow like i could have a stab at it but and and it wouldn't be probably wouldn't be awful but i wouldn't be able to do what we do now because it's that's built that's a team that knows they've been doing that's built over over many years right and you know people come and go but the the structure and the people generally have been around for a long time
00:35:13
Speaker
I love that recognition of it. And this might be another one that you got to kind of tap into your memory bank here. But when you're a team of six or four, or however you want to look at it, and it's time for that first hire, do you look at a specific skill set? like for And just for transparency, right? i'm looking at myself. I'm like, I can really use a community manager right now. That would be something that was helpful to spread the message. Were you looking at this like, hey, what is that first hire that will really move the needle for us?
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah, God, going back to what I think was probably on the sales side, we hired in first. Because because when when you're doing... It obviously depends what business you're in, right? But in media, you you can get freelance writers. like There's a big pool of people.
00:35:51
Speaker
you know And they're not really high they're not hires because you're just going, you know, I might pay you a certain amount a month or I might pay you a certain amount for an article. But it's it's it's a very kind of... It's an agreement that can be stopped any time. So you're not really...
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, you want to look after those people, but you're not committing to them. and and They're not expecting you to commit to them, right? Whereas, yeah, when you employ someone, you've got to go into that thinking, well, I'm not going to sack them tomorrow. if it will get you know You've got to think about you definitely want them.
Managing Multiple Brands
00:36:17
Speaker
So I think probably probably it was because when we started, we weren't doing events. We were just doing um the media side. so I think it was probably getting more salespeople in. I think that we built up a sales team because was just me for a bit and I was doing all right. But, you know, we we we probably built up yeah We built up a sales team about, went quite rapidly within ah two years, to about five or six people.
00:36:38
Speaker
you know Some of them quite junior, but just people that were were were selling in. and and the what what you should decide is is something blocking you like your growth and growth so everyone's got to grow all the time it's exhausting but it's something blocking you going to where you want to get to like ah you say if it's community magic if you feel you're not really being able to social media stuff or promote stuff enough then yeah that's the thing you need um and and then it's thinking what what you know what's the return what can i can i you know what what could i achieve extra what could i
00:37:13
Speaker
you know, will will this will this, you know, support itself? I guess that's always the key because, you know, and that's where sales is an easier thing where people often hire in early on sales and business development because salespeople, you know, they bring in money so they cover their salaries. And if they don't, then there's an understanding that if you've not sold anything in three months or something, that you're probably not going to be in that job forever. So, um yeah, but I think i think you've got to look at what,
00:37:39
Speaker
what's going to allow you to go to the next stage and also what you can, you know, make sure you can, you know, support that for it for a period. I think that's well said. And, you know, it makes your mind kind of jog real quick. Like, what can I do? How can I do it? And one thing we talked about in our pre-call again, going back to the idea of football is you built multiple brands out at the same time. and,
00:38:01
Speaker
I'm not going to say they're unrelated, right? I can tell you my group of friends, we all talk football, we all talk video games, we all talk movies, but they are core different audiences, right? And how were you able to build multiple brands without kind of diluting yourself? Well, yeah, I mean, um initially these were two different companies. So, um and so for full disclosure, I founded, you know, Steel Media and I brought people together to make that happen.
00:38:25
Speaker
a fanics football scout was founded by a friend of mine and it ran as ah a thing that wasn't really a commercial thing for a while and then he he wanted to make a commercial thing or he wanted to get some investment order to do and he didn't quite know how to do it and he actually came to me to ask advice about somebody else who's going to invest in it wanting to invest in his thing and and whether it was a good deal and it was a terrible deal And I said, you whatever you do, you shouldn't do that. And this is, you know, it's many, many years ago. And and and so out of that, i ended up I ended up putting some money in and
Role of Passion in Business
00:38:57
Speaker
working. But that was only very part time. It was, you know, I was and I became the commercial guy because that was the thing I'm apparently good at now. You I became the commercial. The vision was I can't take the credit. for i can take credit for growing it, but it was started by someone else. So but it is difficult. Yeah. And those are at the moment, for the last
00:39:13
Speaker
I know, five or six years. those Like i was, a you know, running both those things together. But it goes back to the team again. i mean, it goes back to the teams. Both those companies have incredibly strong central teams. You know, that the i could talk about, you know, Sam and Neil and Ian and Tom and many more on on um on the Fansful Scout. And that they, you know, they they don't move. They just know what they're doing and they love what they're doing. That's the thing I was going to say, actually.
00:39:44
Speaker
It's important to kind of you don't have to love your job every day, but I do think it it matters that you care about what you do. And it certainly whether it matters or not. If you do really care about the thing you're in, you do.
00:39:58
Speaker
It certainly helps because when you start in and when you're a small company. Everybody has to do a bit of everything. if you're the founder or CEO or whatever, you know, or senior management, hours are going to read be pretty, you know, elastic, shall we say. You know, the the idea of a nine to five if you start the business is pretty unrealistic.
00:40:19
Speaker
um So having that passion, having people around you that that love it is a really, really helpful and and because it just helps you when it when things are tough people people aren't just there because the money and despair for the next money or that because they care about the thing um you know and and they they care about the community around it and they care about you know they want to make it the the best they can which um Yeah, no I've gone off an angle.
Challenges in the Gaming Industry
00:40:43
Speaker
no but I think you're so right, but I also, i would disagree with it in a little bit. Like, obviously working in video games for myself, right? I love video games. I was born and raised, loved them, right? And I kind of fell into this. And I speak to a lot of college grads that want to get into the gaming world. I'm just like, don't force yourself into the gaming world because you're probably going to take a lower salary than you necessarily need to. And it's not...
00:41:07
Speaker
always fun. i mean, people think working in games is really just fun and it's not. And sometimes it's good to get a better job and fund your gaming hobby or your hobbies rather than trying to force yourself into an industry where...
00:41:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a fair point. I mean, maybe I'm a bit over... ah like Not everybody in still media loves video games, to be fair. Like, our events... They should. I don't even know if our creative team is that.
00:41:33
Speaker
But they they care about what they're doing, I guess, is the point I make. So they care about the the business and what we're trying to build, which happens to be in games. But you're right. Absolutely nailed on. Yeah, like, video games...
00:41:44
Speaker
Like that's the other, the flip side is that the quickest thing to kill a thing you're passionate about is then to have to do it every day professionally and to realize that behind the scenes, you know, it's like working in Hollywood or something. You're going behind and go, well, yeah, there's nothing behind here. There's a load of equipment, boxes. It's all facade. know, there's a lot, there's a lot of, um,
00:42:04
Speaker
a lot of hard work that goes into making in games. I've never made a game. like you know i've I've been on Game Jam. That makes two of us. but But I know that I've got a lot of friends that do that, and and I know it's it's a really tough business. It's a really hard art form. It's one of those places where I don't think...
Indie vs Corporate Gaming
00:42:21
Speaker
faking it till you make it works. I think gamers can understand who made this game. Is it a corporation that's in it to make money or or was there an indie developer behind this that just loves this craft? And I think players ah video murder players are really good at sensing, hey, what is this game here for? Is it a game or is it here just to monetize the living crap out of me at the end of the day. And I think oh hopefully the player audience is becoming smarter on how to identify these things. yeah um And I think we're starting to see that more and more in in terms of the commercial realities. you You look at the AAA games that have
00:42:57
Speaker
not hit the marks they expected or flopped totally. And then you look at the games, you know, that have like Bellatra, like Clive Scurros just absolutely trounced the game awards. yeah yeah You know, the things that are, and there's, you know, multiple examples of those smaller companies. They're not like,
00:43:15
Speaker
you know The team behind that that game were not two guys in a basement. It was still add some investment or everything, but it wasn't a AAA corporate production. It it was born out of a a passion to to to to to do
Market Competition Challenges
00:43:28
Speaker
stuff. And and and yeah, I think...
00:43:31
Speaker
you know It's not that they can't get great games out of these big corporate machines. It's not even the people within those big corporate machines don't want to make great games. There are still people that want to make great games. but it's yeah There does seem to be a ah movement towards kind of smaller...
00:43:47
Speaker
games that a bit more feel a bit more kind of real a bit less manufactured maybe i don't know maybe it's a temporary thing um we all wait and see how gta gets on right that's going to be a big uh if that if that's going to be a big big uh god knows what that will do for the market but that would be uh but i imagine it won't i imagine it'd be pretty imp incredible i hope so expectation is big now right they they've kind of the problem with it being dragged down dragged out is now just it just builds how good this is going to be It's the problem, right? I mean, we've been waiting since the air and the Xbox 360 era for the next GTA, and it's just like, oh my god, it's how can it live up to the hype? that that it's
00:44:27
Speaker
yeah I don't know if it's possible, and it could be a great game, but how can it live up to this hype? Yeah. don You know, Rockstar makes magic. but I wouldn't get against them. It's got make a lot of money, right? And there's a lot of games. I mean, this is the this is mobile. Every game sector has this problem. Mobile is slightly different because they they tend to update. It tends to be the same game as being updated. It's a slightly different model of merging there.
00:44:50
Speaker
But the the number of games on Steam, brand new games come out that just get no attention at all. um ah so the The supply is vast. And I've got a load of things I've bought, so they've got money, but I've never played them.
00:45:02
Speaker
I've got my Steam, you know, and I got a Steam deck that I've barely opened. I like i think it's an incredible bit a kit, but then... you know I get on a plane, I'm usually going somewhere I have to prepare for or I'm reading or watching a movie or fall asleep. So like you know I'd like to think I'm playing games all that time, but I don't tend not to.
Personal Gaming Habits
00:45:19
Speaker
and um But there's ah there is a problem there with oversupply. We can't. There's only so much. And we're competing with TikTok competing with Netflix we're competing with everything else.
00:45:29
Speaker
It was great when we were in it COVID and people had very little little to do. and even the tv struggling to be able to produce new content games was having with loving it then games was just go yeah we can make it remotely we're all good it was the best of times it was the worst of times yeah yeah i don't not hoping for another pandemic by any means but uh yeah speaking of games what games are you playing these days Yeah, I knew he was going to ask that. So it's not very exciting answer, really. I've got stuff lined up to play because I haven't even played Clare Obscure. It's got a long title. I haven't even played that yet, but it is on my I've got to play it list.
00:46:10
Speaker
I tend to play mobile games, which a lot, because it fits in with my... like lifestyle, like you know in between meetings or on a taxi somewhere or you know at home even in front of the TV at home at night, I have take over the TV. So I'm i'm absolutely addicted still to Clash Royale. It's probably the the most played game I've i've got, um which is Supercell's game. It's probably about decade old now.
00:46:34
Speaker
um I've just got 10,000 trophy crowns, which is... Congratulations. Every time I get there, though, they kind of the rank... that The rank to be in the kind of the the the ranked players gets a bit higher. So um but um um um I'm happy with that.
Gaming Addiction and Monetization Strategies
00:46:49
Speaker
um Yeah, Polytopia is another game. I think that's an incredible strategy game. It's like a so simple it's a bit like, it's a simpler civilization type game. So I've played that a lot.
00:46:59
Speaker
i'm try and I'm trying to look now what I'm doing. With with my son, i played Fortnite for quite a while with my son when he was really into that. And And we played, used to i used to love football games. And I used to really, when I was at university, sensible soccer. And it remembers that incredible football game in my university years. It's a long time ago. It's like 20, over 20 years ago. and the The Amiga, again, will go above everyone's head. But I love that game. um There's a guy called John Hare who made this thing called sociable soccer, which he kind of made his own version of it. Again, he was guy that made sensible soccer. And more recently, he did pretty well. But EA Sports FC as it is now, I love it, but I find it frustrating that I'm not very good at it anymore. I remember being really good at football games, and now I'll go in and I'll be okay against the computer on an okay level, and then I'll go and play some real person, and I'll just get trounced by the same goal 14 times. know that feeling. There's been a couple of game controllers that have, shall we say, come away with a little bit of damage
00:48:01
Speaker
um just through frustration i did a i should have probably said i did a ah what is because my son's teenager and we were talking about doing a youtube channel he wants a huge channel i thought let's do a father and son thing or it won't go anywhere but we can just do it so we started doing these recordings i think we started on twitch because it was to because it was with um whatever xbox was compatible with at the time yeah and uh So basically, this just what I ended up with was as playing FIFA, and it basically being like talking a bit, and then this really angry old man shouting at children as it as he was getting... But that was it' just me shouting and like occasionally dropping the old death bomb. And it was like, this is not really probably going to... mean, maybe it makes it as great content.
00:48:43
Speaker
the The funniest thing is he clipped up some of it, and he and his friends were sort sharing it a around of me like cursing some kid who just beating me. It was like... so i got some uh i don't know that helps i think i i yeah i don't know i want to play some more games over over over christmas i've got i think the game pass is great allowed me to explore some stuff um i really love the things like the spider-man games i used to play you know i'm still really like gta i used like shooters and stuff like quake or or you know um pub g and more recently and but
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's probably more that and maybe some so even simple puzzles. I kind of got into got into things like um a Monopoly Go I had an an addiction to for a while. had to stop. I had to delete it. as just I was getting obsessed with it. i was putting some money into it. and i was just Really?
00:49:30
Speaker
And I found myself like, because it's a really clever loop. and they just I don't know. it's just There's something satisfying about I guess it's I don't want to say anything. but maybe Maybe it's similar to how when people go to casinos. I don't know.
00:49:41
Speaker
But I got to a point where i was like going oh I was going onto Facebook, chatting to people, friends I knew in the industry and random people to see if I could ah could trade with them a a token, a picture of a little dog to complete my collection of dog pictures. And I realised point that something has gone wrong in my life. Because it wasn't like that was the end of the game. but That was just like one level that you had to to get to get some more dice or some more, you know. And it was like, I've got to stop this. this is not This is not
Mobile Gaming Trends and Family Experiences
00:50:11
Speaker
right. um and it it But it was it was really well-made game. I still think it is, but i have to...
00:50:15
Speaker
have to stop doing that also football manager i'm not allowed to touch because that is a addiction for me it's a great great game but it's it's one of those games that you kind of start playing and then you wake up at sort of 10 a.m with your fingers stuck on the keyboard 30 years the future i could talk about other games i've played but recently yeah i think probably more mobile like yeah i always go back to bellartro i've been playing on mobile quite a bit as well that's um since it came out um you're a big fan of these dopamine games huh the ones that could uh milk you dry Yeah, yeah i do well, you know, i also there's a professional interest like because, you you know, ill I will try and play the whatever's top.
00:50:54
Speaker
You went through playing Pokemon Go and that was the big thing. And, and not you know, not religiously, but just to get to understand why, how it works and what the... Also, what does it look like inside the game now? What is the monetization thing? How is this? what's it just Just to stay in touch, you know, I can't play all...
00:51:11
Speaker
you know, 100,000 top games, but I can play a few of them and and get a gist of it. So, yeah. What about you? What are you playing? Right now, I am playing Fortnite once in a while. i was a big Simpsons fan growing up. That's the entire Simpsons thing. I'm so good. I saw the video because I kept intent to go into that and it's just gone now, isn't it? It's all, it's off. All gone, which is fine. You know, was, it had its time, had its place, which was perfect. I am i falling out of love with Fortnite. It's still fun to kind of pick it up. It's no stress and fine. But like my friends get stuck in them. Just like, we got to go do something new. We got to go do something new. And just... you know i love the free-to-play games but the problem is there's so many good games out there and people are stuck in free to play like i have marvel strike i'd try that a bit mobile strike marvel strike marvel uh i didn't know i did uh i did i thought the superhero version fortnite i mean i thought i had superheroes but no i didn't do strike for i did uh what's the latest marvel one that just came out is it rivals is that what meant i did rivals my son loved rivals that's what i meant rivals not strikes do Yeah, Rivals, we did a little bit
Steel Media's 20th Anniversary Plans
00:52:16
Speaker
of. Not too much. I'm not good at team-based like that. We've been playing... You don't want to play with teams. just what Well, I don't mean... I mean, like, 5v5. I love Battlefield right now. Battlefield's, like, my true true love right now, which is also team-based. But my son and I are playing ah the new the new Marvel game, the fighting, the beat-em-up one, Cosmic Invasion.
00:52:35
Speaker
So that's been fun, but I haven't played a mobile game in a while. I actually just did a bunch of podcasts on Second Life and Second Life. don't know if you remember Second Life. They just released a mobile app. What's the guy that started it? Linden Labs. Philip. Yeah, Philip Wolfe. Is it Wolfe? No.
00:52:54
Speaker
Philip Rosdale, I think. Rosdale, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wolf was the other guy from another thing. Philip Wolf was this guy. yeah yeah history was um Yeah, he was, he came, he spoke one of our San Francisco shows. He was an enigmatic guy. He's one of those guys who just like, yeah, he so had something about him. Yeah, he was,
00:53:09
Speaker
I want to play Ark Raider. It's really bad, but I just can't do it. That's definitely on my list for for for the Christmas break is is that, because that is that looks great. There's not enough time in the day.
00:53:20
Speaker
Everyone's very excited. I mean, this is why things like the Games Awards, i think, are really good. And and like people, they poke up stuff. you know i mean, I think awards ceremonies have their own problems. That's a whole other topic. but But you know they they they they go, oh, here's games you have to play, because they and it make you kind of you know try something different, hopefully.
00:53:38
Speaker
So kind of to wrap things up, what I'd really love to understand, first of all, again, 20 years of Pocket Gamers. Congratulations. What is your plan for the 20th anniversary? What's going on this year? What are you excited about?
00:53:53
Speaker
I'm going to drop the mic and burn the whole thing to the ground. It's going to be unexpected for people. People will be allowed to leave. I'm not going to burn them all in. That's good. Yeah, 20th anniversary. We're going to have a... Because we've already done 10 years of PGC, I think throughout the year, we're have a year of a few bits and pieces going on. But because London has so much to do, didn't want to add a whole load of extra stress of trying to shoo on in loads of 20th anniversary so i think throughout the year we're going try and do a few kind of anniversary things and get together and parties and stuff but we will do we're going make our official party at a birthday party we'll have like you know cakes and and and birthday cards and god knows what um but yeah i you know i don't think we're gonna there's a lot i want to do and think about retrospective but again it's finding time to to you know to do this stuff but yeah i think um
00:54:42
Speaker
What do we want to do? Do you say what we want to next? is that why What do you got going on this year? Kind of celebrate on what's exciting you about it. This year, really, as I say, it's 10 conferences. So 20 years, 10 conferences. If I could do 20 conferences, I would have done them. i would be that But my team was not. I had to had ah had a deal lined up to do another event. There was two potential new locations on top of what we're doing.
00:55:05
Speaker
where there was some partnership which would have made it easier to do. But I was vetoed by my team, which you have to listen to the the people that do the work because if they all leave, then you have to do something. So um but yeah, so yeah, newton new venues, like I say, more in Asia it went when We've got Bangkok, Shanghai and some in Korea. Maybe we'll do something in Vietnam. We're looking at a moment.
Future Plans and Global Growth
00:55:26
Speaker
We've got, um yeah, we're doing this thing in Helsinki, Barcelona and London in Europe and and and a smaller event in in Malmo alongside Nordic. And then we've got um where you San Francisco with the USA. we We might try and do something around MIGs as well. with kind of thinking about that because that's become quite big.
00:55:46
Speaker
My friend of ours is running that. um But then there's two events in in the Middle East. So don't know. This year, I'm just going to try and enjoy and take it in a bit more and and try and... I'm actually switching my role a little bit and I'm going try and become a little bit more...
00:56:05
Speaker
ah not and not not involved, but a bit more thinking, bigger picture again. um you know Because I think we've we've grown things quite well. That's why we're trying these things like the apps.
00:56:16
Speaker
The apps thing is quite interesting for me, because that's a side to to games. That's kind of interesting to see whether there's opportunities there that we can extend into that. Because a lot of the same things that work for mobile games work for mobile apps, but then apps is not one thing.
00:56:30
Speaker
cohesive thing it's not an industry it's it's lots of different industries you just have to use apps so we're kind of exploring that transmedia i'm very excited about i like a lot of journalists you know frustrated screenwriter or novelist or film writer or whatever so i kind of i like um i like getting involved in that um and and and our transmedia summit is quite cool and You know, looking away, we did an event in Helsinki last year, went really well with Transmedia. We're standing with them only actually with the Helsinki Film Lab, really group great people. and And I'm looking at... um
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking at trying to explore new new frontiers this year. and So I think i think we we might end up doing more than we've already got. We've got more slated than ever. um It's not impossible we'll end up doing even one or two more things. or Also, we're doing event in the Canary Islands end year. So it's a second Spanish event, working with the partners in the government out there, will be kind of our end of year kind of like winter sun thing, which I'm quite excited about. um Have you been to Tenerife or Gran Canaria? I haven't, but my parents have and they spoke highly of it. Lovely places. Food's incredible. People are lovely. And the weather is like, even in like end of the year, it's still much nicer than the UK.
Appreciation for the Gaming Community
00:57:44
Speaker
I don't know where where you where we go from here. Finally, where we go from here. Yeah. More in Asia. Trying to just stay ahead of the industry or up with the industry and and and try and help. yeah continue to help supporting it continue to help it grow and and and also to support you know people coming through like as i say a couple of times it's about the whole ecosystem it's not just about us making money and it's not just about small group we can monetize blah blah it's about bringing together everybody the next generation students the indie devs they can get inspired and they can make partnerships
00:58:17
Speaker
I love it. And I appreciate all that you do. One of my first conferences I remember was Pocket Gamers Seattle, and it was a really cool experience. And I appreciate everything you're doing for the industry. I think it's great to be able to help both people who are experienced to learn more about what's going on, as well as like you're mentioning students who need to understand how to how the industry works. So congrats on 20 years. Thank you so much for being a part of this and being a part of the industry itself. And and before we do end today, is there anything you want to share? the mic is yours.
00:58:46
Speaker
Oh yeah, Pocket Gaming Connects London. Tickets are available. It will be our biggest event ever. It's our 20th birthday. Come along, join it. It's going fantastic. So that's my main thing. ah That's my main shill and support. But it isn't a shill because I think it's generally brilliant. I'm really proud of that event. um So do come and join us or or join your our world tour throughout the year and and um take part in that. and you know And if you've got something interesting story to tell, if you've got a new product you're launching, if you've got if you want to just get in touch, like we you know we do sell things, but we we're also interested in hearing stories. We're always interested in in in speakers talking about new angles or know if there's ways we can work together, get in touch. We're very open and we want to help the industry. And if you've got doing some cool stuff in the industry, we want to help you, I guess. um Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:35
Speaker
Also, i think that's it, really. um Yeah, i'm i'm I'm looking forward to it. There's this inconvenient thing called Christmas between ah between us and and the show, which means we've got to get everything pretty much wrapped up by the end of next week. but some But it's going pretty well so far. We're we're ahead of last year and fingers crossed, touch wood, it's going to be a great show.
00:59:56
Speaker
We will have links to Pocket Gamers as well. Links specifically to Pocket Gamers London, to Steel Media, to Chris. I really appreciate you coming here, telling these stories about what you're building, how you built it. I think it's, again, super cool. And I appreciate everything you've done for the industry and are continuing to do. Thanks again for jumping on today.
01:00:13
Speaker
Thank you for having me. Really enjoyed it. Really appreciate it