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Episode 149: Crafting Copy with Soul
677 Plays3 years ago
Copywriter Olivia Carson joins me on the podcast today to discuss crafting copy with soul. While our conversation focuses primarily on website copy, Olivia also dropped some tips for other copywriting activities like writing Instagram captions. One quick announcement last week, we launched our spring line of website designs including two new full website designs and what might end up becoming our most popular add-on page, the family portrait guide. Just head on over to daveyandkrista.com
For show notes visit...https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-episode-149-crafting-copy/
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Transcript
Selling Insurance with Emotion
00:00:05
Speaker
They want to leave feeling change.
00:00:12
Speaker
So if I'm selling insurance, for example, I'm not going to talk about, you know, what happens if you get rear ended by someone who fell asleep at the wheel in traffic. I'm going to talk about how by buying this insurance, you are securing your legacy for generations to come. You know, you're promising future generations, wealth, health, happiness. That is tapping into something emotional and visceral.
Introduction to Brands at Book Show
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
Crafting Soulful Copy with Olivia Carson
00:00:50
Speaker
Copywriter Olivia Carson joins me on the podcast today to discuss crafting copy with soul. While our conversation focused mostly on website copy, Olivia also dropped some tips for other copywriting activities like writing Instagram captions.
DavyandChrista.com Website Launch
00:01:05
Speaker
One other quick announcement, last week we launched our spring line of website designs, including two new full website designs and what might end up becoming our most popular add-on page, the Family Portrait Guide.
00:01:19
Speaker
And for a few more days, you can save 25% on any website design in the shop.
Listener Feedback Encouragement
00:01:24
Speaker
Just head on over to DavyandChrista.com forward slash shop. Be sure to check out the show notes at DavyandChrista.com for the resources that we mentioned during the episode. And we want to hear from you. Let us know what kind of content you'd like to see on the brand set book podcast as we move forward. To leave your feedback, just send us a DM on Instagram at DavyandChrista. Now onto the episode.
Olivia's Journey to Copywriting
00:01:51
Speaker
All right, we're live with another episode of the Brancet Book Podcast. I am joined today by copywriter Olivia Carson to discuss one of the most popular subjects on the podcast, copywriting. Welcome. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me. I hope we can answer some questions and dispel some fears when it comes to putting pen to paper.
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And we were just talking about how, I mean, of course there are copywriting podcasts out there, but it's just something that we could talk about over and over and over again, because I think for many of us who are more visually oriented, words can just feel difficult. But I'd say that I like writing, but I still, there's certain aspects of copywriting that I think are still challenging for me, especially when you have to write about yourself. That's not my comfort zone, for instance.
00:02:41
Speaker
Right. And that would not be the first time I've heard that. I had somebody put it this way before, so I can't claim that I created this or came up with this idea by myself. But somebody said that writing for your own business is kind of like why surgeons don't operate on their own children. Like you're just blinded by love, you're way too close, and it's just better to let somebody else handle it.
00:03:07
Speaker
It's hard because you can't see the forest through the trees sometimes when it comes to your own business.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. I think even for designers, we've had designers come to us, typically not website designers or brand designers, but people who feel comfortable with design, just graphic designers who feel like they should be able to create their own website, but they're just like, I can't for whatever reason pull this together. Of course, there's some nuances to each niche of design as well, but I think something similar is at work where it's hard to do things for yourself sometimes.
The Role of Sales Copy
00:03:43
Speaker
But today we're talking about sales copy, which I feel like a skill that I think everybody should at least try to refine. Even if they're not going to be writing their own sales copy, I think it's just one of the most important things that you can learn in business. So I'm excited to dive into that. First though, as a new guest to the podcast, you have to tell us a little bit about yourself, how your business got started. How did you find yourself in this copywriting world?
00:04:08
Speaker
I have a background as a wedding and portrait photographer. Little did I know before I became a full-time copywriter, I had been kind of building this audience over the last 10 years shooting. And I work and live in Seattle, Washington. Great place to be.
00:04:25
Speaker
And we have an incredible community of photographers and creatives out here. And I was building my wedding photography business through college. I never went full-time with it. I never really wanted to.
00:04:42
Speaker
And I felt, you know, not to like doggone myself or anything, but I never felt like I had quite the stuff to be like one of the greats basically. And I was okay with that. So I really appreciated the time and space that I got to spend with, you know, my couples. I really loved all that I got to sort of pour into them. And, you know, I was going to college at the same time. I went to the University of Washington here in Seattle, studied marketing and communications because I've always been like the entrepreneur.
00:05:12
Speaker
entrepreneurial type. And in my senior year of my undergrad, I took a couple of fiction writing courses and electives kind of just to fill out the degree, sort of that senior spring. And turns out like all the writing majors at my college were like kick-ass people. And
00:05:34
Speaker
fell in love with the whole romanticism of being like a writer and got my first job out of college. I ended up at a newspaper and I was doing advertising sales at the newspaper, which was just a nightmare for a lot of reasons.
00:05:50
Speaker
But I was able to sort of like cowboy that position into not being a journalist, but being someone who would write paid editorial for advertisers. It's kind of like if you've ever seen an ad sort of
Creating Emotional Experiences in Copywriting
00:06:05
Speaker
in disguise on BuzzFeed, like here are five recipes that we created using Velveeta cheese sort of thing. Yeah, sure.
00:06:12
Speaker
It's a lot like that. So we call it native advertising, native to the newspaper. So it would look like an article for an advertiser. So I was writing a lot of those advertorial pieces.
00:06:26
Speaker
After that, I left that job, went to a credit union where I ended up writing my first marketing campaign that had over a million dollars in revenue at the credit union, selling auto loans, home loans, all sorts of that.
00:06:44
Speaker
not to sell myself short, but it was actually pretty easy to get up to a million dollars in revenue selling houses and stuff in the Seattle area. But anyway, eventually I had like a come to Jesus moment at that job because I was getting really, really, really into copywriting at the time. And my boss was basically like,
00:07:02
Speaker
Shape up or ship out. You are not paying attention enough at this job at the credit union, so you got to choose. Do you want to invest here or go off on your own? Please do it. So yeah, that was about a year ago, actually almost to the day. It was probably in February of 2021 that I went full-time as a writer.
00:07:21
Speaker
But all of that being said, there were little nuggets and bits of writing in my past. In my corporate career, I was always the one who my peers and co-workers would come to to say, can you make this sound pretty? Can you jish it up? I was always really happy to have that role, I guess, that made me feel good.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of those times when it's like when you're doing the right thing, it feels useful. Like it feels like it comes really organically and naturally. And with that hindsight, you can look back and see all the times that sort of the universe was sort of like knocking at the door. And for whatever reason, you would ignore it or whatever. But
00:08:06
Speaker
Long story short, now I work with lots of folks in the wedding industry. I work with just makers and creatives of all kinds. I will never stop working with this type of person because that's who I am.
00:08:22
Speaker
Ultimately, what I try to help a lot of creatives realize, especially when it comes to copywriting, is that there's this understanding with copywriting that in order to sell something, you have to do it very efficiently and concisely. And that's true to an extent. But I think a lot of the understanding is that you can't sort of wax poetic ever. You have to just
00:08:49
Speaker
Keep it short and sweet because no one has the attention span to read anything anymore. And what I have found is that your words should match the beauty of the work you share with the world. And that's kind of where I'm creating this.
00:09:05
Speaker
It feels weird to say movement. That sounds really self-important. But I really want to help a lot of creative people realize that. People want to partner in a line with a visionary nowadays. And that is what I set out to do.
00:09:19
Speaker
Awesome. So moving more from this corporate setting to working with mostly creatives, a lot of wedding industry businesses, have you found that a lot of the same principles carry over that you've learned in, for instance, selling insurance or car loans or whatever it was that you were doing previously?
00:09:37
Speaker
Short answer, yes. Sure. I think a lot of times this is something that I still find myself challenged by as a professional writer. It's like, can you think of anything less sexy than insurance? Like just in case, you know, just in case you die or whatever, your property gets destroyed. Like who wants to think about that?
00:09:56
Speaker
I find that the principle that carries over from any sort of conversion copywriting, compelling writing, is that people want an experience. They want a transformation. They want to leave feeling changed.
00:10:18
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So if I'm selling insurance, for example, I'm not going to talk about, you know, what happens if you get rear ended by someone who fell asleep at the wheel in traffic. I'm going to talk about how by buying this insurance, you are securing your legacy for generations to come. You know, you're promising future generations, wealth, health, happiness. That is tapping into something emotional and visceral.
00:10:47
Speaker
And the same goes for wedding photography as well. This is just, you know, I'm, I'm writing for a couple different wedding photographers this week. So it's fresh on my mind. And I know that's a big part of your audience as well, but like.
00:10:58
Speaker
wedding pictures, the actual pictures, it's a means to an end. But what they're actually getting by aligning with you and partnering with you is that element of legacy, that element of promise and honoring something that's generations in the making and all the rest.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah. So we used to, way back in the day, shoot as well. When I first started getting into business, I thought, okay, what people care about is how many images they get or the type of camera that I'm shooting on. We ended up shooting film, so people will actually ask out of curiosity what we were shooting on. What kind of camera is that?
00:11:40
Speaker
But no one actually cared what kind of camera we were shooting on. Most people, unless they had some sort of photography background, wanted to talk about the camera we were using to create the images. They wanted us to work with us because they saw the images and maybe the emotion that invoked or whatever. So yeah, I think that there is that general shift of figuring out what are more features versus what are the benefits of working with whoever it is that
Defining Sales Copy
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Speaker
you're hiring.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like they want the story to be told, you know, they want to remember how the day felt and how it looked. They want both, but it's so much more about remembering than it is here, the line items of deliverables that you receive like that's not sexy, you know? And I mean, I think sexy as a big, like a blanket sort of term here, just to mean like, what is actually going to help sell yourself?
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And maybe this is a good opportunity to sort of start talking about just sales copy in general and what it is that you're selling. So maybe you could sort of define for us to a certain extent what sales copy is and where it should be used. Talking about it in the context of maybe the wedding industry is just a good place to start because I think there is this idea that, oh, we don't need sales copy. If I run a venue, no, I don't need sales copy. So maybe you could speak to that a little bit.
00:13:05
Speaker
Venue in particular, yes, of course he needs sales copy. Everybody does. And I'll first start by defining copy in the first place because we're really throwing the word around. So I want to be safe and ensure that it's very clear. But it's essentially just like any writing
Brand Voice and Personality in Copywriting
00:13:20
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that you do for your business. Copywriting, interchanged with the term copy, just any writing that you do for your business.
00:13:28
Speaker
And sales copy kind of gets to be getting into that nebulous area a little bit where, you know, like brand and website copywriting is more expository, like you're explaining what it is that you do. But at the end of the day, it is writing that helps sell who you are and what your business shows up to do essentially. And there are definitely more sales driven copywriting pieces
00:13:56
Speaker
like, for example, a sales page. Say you are selling an online course or a mastermind. I'm thinking of a lot of education programs, things like that, where you really need to, in the copy, convey not only what you're getting, but what you can expect
00:14:19
Speaker
to really receive. That's the difference that we were just talking about between the actual deliverables versus the transformation that you will experience. All of that being said, I think all copy at the end of the day helps sell you as a service provider, as a business, as an individual who can bring value to somebody else.
00:14:42
Speaker
But there are other pieces of copywriting that are definitely more sales driven. But just as a whole, great copy can sell you no matter the context. So in terms of like wedding photographers, for example, there's so many different opportunities that we can use great copy to sell. So I mean, of course, I'm going to start with your website.
00:15:03
Speaker
And I think that your website offers a beautiful opportunity, beautiful opportunity to really sort of show your breaststrokes. And what I mean by that is to really like, what just came to mind for me is like, let your freak flag fly sort of thing. But what I mean by that is to show your voice. And if you think about it,
00:15:26
Speaker
as a wedding photographer, you're going to be following your couples around all day long. This is an opportunity to show your personality and do so unapologetically because it's getting into that idea of that attract and repel marketing. The last thing I want you to think of is my personality could repel people,
00:15:47
Speaker
But I mean, you really want to show your voice in all of its glory so that people can discern who they're going to be around on their wedding day all day. Who's going to be capturing them? What is the perspective through which you see the world? And when I write for wedding photographers, I really do put a lot of emphasis on that.
00:16:09
Speaker
you know, considering how much choice is available when it comes to wedding photographers just out in the world these days. The difference between all of us is our philosophy, is our approach, and how we see the world and how we kind of put that to words.
00:16:29
Speaker
You know, we can all, so many of us, like even in sort of the fine art luxury community, so many of us can say that we shoot on a Contax 645 and we shoot with Fujifilm. But now that's not differentiating us as much as it used to. So now we have to go one step beyond that.
00:16:49
Speaker
Why do you show up to do what you do? Why are you singular? What do you have that no one else can claim? What moved you to take on this work in the first place? There's a reason that you came here.
00:17:03
Speaker
You put a camera in your hands instead of something else. Why? Let's talk about that. And how do you see the world? What inspires you? What inspires you about the story that you're documenting? All of those things are what will differentiate you. And then once you define your brand voice, which is how you present in the written word, what are the words you actually say and vocabulary you use?
00:17:30
Speaker
the cadence of your speech that's kind of the frosting that sort of the icing on top of it all which you know there's the philosophy that is going to be really attractive on an emotional level on a transformation level and then the personality that you bring again is that icing on top like.
00:17:47
Speaker
Do I actually feel attracted to this person? Is this somebody that I want to invest in? Could this person be my friend? Could this person be a trusted colleague of mine, depending on the audience that you're trying to reach?
Copy Drives Website Design
00:18:03
Speaker
Website, of course, stands out for me in a really big way when it comes to sales copy for wedding photographers because everybody has one. But there are so many others that you should really invest time and energy into as well like writing newsletters for your email list, Instagram captions, and a big advocate for writing beautiful
00:18:23
Speaker
intentional Instagram captions. If you have products or programs that you offer, sales pages, that's where we get into more of that very sales driven copy. There are so many different things, but I think websites, getting your website aligned with personality, promise, and position is a really great way to tap into the power of copy as a wedding photographer.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, I really like those three things in particular that you were mentioning. It seems like just all good copies should move people in a given direction or move people to take a specific action, right? Like you suggested, certain pages like a sales page for a course is going to be more – maybe it's going to come off as more salesy in a way.
00:19:07
Speaker
But I think in other ways too, like a sales page versus like a services page, they're going to contain a lot of the same elements. And I think a lot of times, visual artists especially, people in the creative space think that their work is going to speak for itself or for lack of a better way to put it. And that's often not the case, right? I think that the words that we include on our website, I mean, I think especially when we're thinking about website design in particular, I was just talking to photographers about this recently where
00:19:35
Speaker
getting images together for a website project is easy. And a lot of times it is the aesthetics of a website that draws to a particular website. But I think if people pay a little bit more close attention to the websites that really, I don't know, they really love. Oftentimes, it's the words on the website as well. I mean, that's half of it, right? I mean, it's the images and copy that ultimately make that. I think that in the website design process in particular, a lot of times it's the copy that drives the design of the website. It's not actually the imagery that does that.
00:20:05
Speaker
Of course, it's oversimplified to a certain extent to say that copy totally drives the design, but it kind of does. So I just told a photographer that of all the website design projects we've done, anybody who's ever hired a copywriter has never regretted it. Yes, it's an investment, but they've never regretted it. So I definitely think that there's a certain value to copy that is sometimes overlooked by people in the creative industry at least.
00:20:32
Speaker
Yes, that's very welcome. That's very welcome news to hear that no one has ever regretted it. Yeah, they just I mean, it really does up level website for sure. I think you really nailed it with it's something that I hear a lot that our work visually speaks for itself. I want to say that's true. But at the same time, it's not because
00:20:55
Speaker
I mentioned before, there's so much choice available now, especially when it comes to wedding photographers that sometimes, unless your style is truly, truly very singular, that they can identify it that it is yours, you have something incredible.
00:21:12
Speaker
But I don't know how many of us just being totally honest like I mentioned before I never felt like as a photographer I was going to be like, I was never going to I don't know that I was ever going to reach that level. So I, I had to have that honesty with myself. And I wonder if, you know, some of us could use that copy to really drive home the fact that we are truly singular outside of our work.
00:21:35
Speaker
You know, it's like your imagery is what will draw people in and the aesthetics of it all are what will draw people in, but your words are what will get them to stay.
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah, you don't really see portfolio sites anymore, you know, like you used to, right? Like, I remember a lot of the, you know, big name photographers that I used to follow, they really just had, I mean, it was like a, it was a site with pretty much just images, you know, it was kind of they're all collaged together, right? And you don't see that as much anymore. And I think in part because there's a better way to do it, right? Like we, we can provide an online experience that
00:22:06
Speaker
is not necessarily the same as an in-person experience as if you walked into a store, but to a certain extent, there's a better way to do it online now. And I think that copy is something that really can move people. So yes, somebody might just see your work on Instagram or something like that, and that might be all they need to book you, whatever it is. I'm not saying that that never happens, but I do think copy is super powerful and shouldn't be overlooked.
00:22:31
Speaker
I do want to start getting towards people who they just don't even really know where to start. You know, maybe people like me who's like, I even feel pretty comfortable writing, but it's like, oh, when I have to write about myself or my business, that's harder. You know, one, because I don't want to be like, even like complimenting yourself, right? It's kind of a awkward.
00:22:50
Speaker
thing to do, but where should people even start? I think there's things that people, they're like, oh, I want this to be part of my brand, but they don't really know how to connect it back to their business. I think the example that Chris and I used to joke around about a lot was people who want Chick-fil-A to be part of their brand. It's like, I really like Chick-fil-A and it's like, well,
00:23:10
Speaker
Explain to me how that boosts your brand. Not saying that it can't, but explain to me how that does.
Client-Centric Writing
00:23:16
Speaker
Where should people get started and what should they be doing to make sure that it's actually connected to what it is that they do? Yeah. I love Chick-fil-A. I haven't had breakfast this morning.
00:23:28
Speaker
It's a lot earlier for you than it is for us. Yeah. We just got Chick-fil-A in the Northwest about five years ago, maybe less. So I want Chick-fil-A to be part of my brand too. Sure. Yeah. Dark times. But to answer the question, so as far as like where to start?
00:23:49
Speaker
I would say if you were attempting to do it yourself, well, first off, I'm always going to say like go to a copywriter first. But if you want to start yourself, I always find as a writer that it's much easier to have sort of a deliverable, like an actual piece that I'm sort of channeling myself in writing into.
00:24:12
Speaker
whether it be a website, a page of a website, a caption, whatever it might be. I want the writing that you do for yourself as you're getting your feet wet to feel like you are channeling it into something that you could someday use. Just having that sort of end destination in mind, I think, would be really helpful. And it would be hard for me to just be like, to just stare at like an empty document with a blinking cursor. I'd be like, so where do I start?
00:24:41
Speaker
So have sort of an end destination in mind. And because we're writing about ourselves, let's start with the obvious choice, I think, which would be like an about page on a website. So let's write for that. And starting there by having that deliverable, by having that piece that it will ultimately this writing will become,
00:25:02
Speaker
It will then help you make some choices so when I write in about page I know that it's ultimately going to be read by a client or potential client so that helps me now eliminate some things that maybe I would have written about if I were writing the first chapter in a novel maybe.
00:25:19
Speaker
and know instead that anything that's on my website has to connect back to my ideal client's experience and journey somehow. So now that gives me a great starting point. And any sort of website page that I'm going to write, I want to think about how it can connect to my ideal client before I even start to talk about myself.
00:25:42
Speaker
And I know that, again, the mention of ideal clients, it just comes up so often in marketing and your work, Davey, in mine. It's like, I'm sure people are sick of hearing it, but really, it all does come back to this. We want to move people. We want people to know that they will leave us feeling transformed. I can't say that enough.
00:26:07
Speaker
So if I'm writing an about page, even if it's about me, let's start with the client. So I want something that is going to agitate a pain point that my client is experiencing as it relates to my expertise. And because we're talking about sales copy with soul, sometimes it can feel a little soul less to write about people's pain.
00:26:33
Speaker
there's this movement that's been kind of building about trauma-informed entrepreneurship and marketing, which is essentially kind of shuffling up this idea of agitating pain points and instead shifting the perspective to not agitating pain points, but amplifying what somebody really wants instead. So let's take that perspective.
00:26:55
Speaker
If they're looking for a wedding photographer, I know that they really want, let me just pull something out of thin air, like they want wedding photographs that don't look like everybody else's. So I'm going to start with an opener that kind of says something along the lines of like, because you're here, I already know that you're after wedding photography that hits different or wedding photography that's built different. And then how am I going to develop out that dream a little bit more?
00:27:24
Speaker
And sometimes I think with copy, when we're trying to resonate with the reader, we think that we have to really sink into their minds in a way that is indirect.
00:27:38
Speaker
when really it can be as simple as just describing what we already know about the client, which is you're after wedding photography that's different. You want it to be beautiful enough that it's worthy of a permanent place on the feed as well as generations down the line when your grandkids are looking at that wedding album.
00:28:01
Speaker
something along those lines. And then just keep describing what the ideal client is really wanting. It can be that simple. And I think that research can really benefit you in this regard.
Personal Anecdotes in Copywriting
00:28:15
Speaker
Don't be afraid to go out and ask your ideal clients, what do you have to lose? Reach out to them and say,
00:28:23
Speaker
I would love to work with somebody like you someday. Can you tell me your thoughts on offer A, offer B, offer C, whatever it might be? Really, you don't have to speculate about what your ideal client wants if you just ask them. It can be that easy. And it's a really great way to confirm that you are on the right track as well, especially when we have to speculate a little bit about what they want.
00:28:48
Speaker
I think that's really helpful for those of us who we are maybe not our own ideal client. I can't state the importance of researching them enough. Like really ensure that because you're describing where they are now and where they want to go, you had better damn well know where they are now and where they want to go. So all of that being said, how can we pivot that to write now about ourselves?
00:29:16
Speaker
Really, we can talk about what we will do to make our ideal clients' dreams come true, and then pivoting it to say, like, now that is where I come in. Or it turns out that's my specialty. Now we have created that pivot point to talk about ourselves and do it in a way that feels organic.
00:29:37
Speaker
Now that we know we have our clients hooked, we've given them a reason to care. We're talking about them. As much as our clients want to know who we are, they also want to know what's in it for them. Even when we're writing in an about page and it feels like a page that should
00:29:54
Speaker
at its core be about us, we do need to link it to our client's experience, whether it's shared values or the fact that we are the ones who will make their dreams come true. There are many different ways that you can talk about yourself, but in a way that you're not wasting breath because your client doesn't care yet.
00:30:19
Speaker
And now that you've come to the point of talking about yourself, you can really feel free to talk about your experience, where you studied, but also that's where that Chick-fil-A moment might come in. When I'm not behind the camera, you can find me getting a spicy deluxe at Chick-fil-A with a sunjoy and a soft serve or something.
00:30:43
Speaker
I would say to address Chick-fil-A to kind of tie that one up. I don't see Chick-fil-A being like the pillar of a brand, but it can be like a fun detail about you to sort of mention just off the cuff to after you have really done all that legwork to
00:31:02
Speaker
Find common ground with your ideal client to show that you understand them to show that you've done the homework. The Chick-fil-A moment might be what tips them over the edge finally. Like, all right, I was looking for one more thing and the Chick-fil-A was it for me. That could be just one last fun detail to finally reel them in.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, Krista really sells herself short when it comes to copy, you know? I mean, being a designer, she usually wants little to do with actually writing copy. But for our templates, she has to, to a certain extent. But she really does, I think, a good job making subtle references to something like that, which wouldn't be the pillar of a brand, right? But it's sort of a tip of the hat so that people who know will know, right? You know, so one of our new templates I'm thinking about, we have a bunch of new templates shopping tomorrow, actually. And one of them
00:31:50
Speaker
has a couple Ted Lasso, like very subtle Ted Lasso references throughout it. And so it's one of those things where it's like you could probably, if you've never watched Ted Lasso before, you'd probably read through it and the copy would just make sense. But if you've seen Ted Lasso before, you'll be like, okay, I see what she did there. And I feel like she's really good at that. I think sometimes the problems come in where somebody tries to make something like that maybe a pillar of their brand. It takes this inordinate place in sort of their overall brand.
00:32:18
Speaker
It seemed like you were maybe alluding to some sort of formula for writing sales
Copy for High-End Clients
00:32:23
Speaker
copy. Is there a formula that people could follow in writing sales copy, especially if they're trying to reach maybe higher end clients?
00:32:32
Speaker
I find that the formula comes into play when it comes to things like website and sales page. It's easy to align with the formula there because we've now come to expect a certain type of pace and cadence to things like that. The formula helps with ensuring everything is communicated that we want to.
00:32:56
Speaker
and that it doesn't carry on too long because we know that people, they can stand reading long form copy. So just copy that's longer in length, but people are not going to tolerate boring copy.
00:33:11
Speaker
And so a formula like that on a website or a sales page, a lot of like those bigger sort of pieces of copy, yes, they definitely follow a formula. And loosely, that formula really looks like having a really just captivating headline at the open of any sort of webpage. Captivating headline, a sub headline that kind of expands on that further.
00:33:37
Speaker
and either drives forward the narrative that you were opening that headline with, or it expands further on, this is who I am. And then I would just build out into some body text, again, really describing the ideal client's current reality, taking that approach to agitate where they are now and how it might not be where they want to be,
00:34:04
Speaker
or on the same token agitating some of the things that we know they have identified that they don't want and i see that one coming into play a lot for wedding photographers because. A lot of times when clients come to wedding photographers they don't necessarily have like a pain point it's more of like i know now what i don't want.
00:34:25
Speaker
And you can kind of restate that for them. You know you don't want this. And by stating that, I'm kind of painting a picture of what it is that you do want instead. So just really, really client-centric copy.
00:34:40
Speaker
building out to sort of the reveal, which is you or your offer or whatever it is that you have to share. And then always providing direction calls to action for what they should do next. You could probably speak to this more than anyone, but online behavior, people really love to be told what to do. Don't leave them questioning because that's when people get confused and they bounce. So that's our very, very high level overview of a formula that I would take on a web page.
00:35:10
Speaker
But as far as a lot of other writing that we might do a bit more regularly than writing out like a full on webpage whether it's on newsletters or captions. I really like to take those opportunities to just kind of like free right taking on similar approaches where.
00:35:29
Speaker
I'm going to be saying to other people and their experience first before I would ever talk about myself. I think that just should be applied really broadly across all the writing that you do. You have to give people a reason to care. You have to give them the what is in it for me factor.
00:35:44
Speaker
So, speak to their experience first or a shared experience that you have. That's a really great opportunity to easily and organically pivot to talk about yourself. I find that the formula really comes into play with the bigger copywriting pieces, website, sales page, but then you have a little bit more freedom and room to play with some of the more regular bits of writing that you would do like newsletters or captions.
00:36:10
Speaker
I deal with high-end clients though. Let's talk about that one. Everybody wants to elevate and I find that this is something that I am still developing my thoughts and opinion on as a writer because this is what people come to me for. When they invest in my services, this is what they want to do. They want to elevate so that they can reach a higher-end client.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I'm kind of trying to distill like what I've learned. So just know that this is still developing for me and it's totally subject to change, like a lot of marketing things out there. But what I've learned is that design is huge when it comes to
00:36:53
Speaker
landing high-end clients. Design is huge. You will find that copy that attracts a higher-end client is a little bit more on the sparse side, so there isn't quite as much copy.
00:37:07
Speaker
because really powerful imagery comes into play with that too. It's this perfect balance of beautiful intuitive design that feels high-end, and you could probably speak to the aesthetic of a high-end design. I think it's a lot of minimalism and
00:37:27
Speaker
intuitive things, but also just really strong imagery and copy that is just so. I don't know how else to put it, but it's just understated enough. A couple of other more less nebulous things to attract a high-end client with your copy. Word choice is huge. So finding ways to say things that have been said a million bazillion times, finding new ways to say that,
00:37:54
Speaker
which means cracking open the thesaurus here and there. I think that the most common offenders are authentic, beautiful, and special. Those are words that I hear a lot and I'm like, we can do better. We can do better. Also, what I have found with attracting the high-end client
00:38:16
Speaker
is so just driving home that idea of transformation. Because what we know about high-end clientele is that for what a lot of us want, we want them to be in a position where money is no object, which means they have more to invest in us.
00:38:34
Speaker
And when money is no object, they could not care less about the actual bullet points, the deliverables of our offer. They want to know how they will be transformed as a result of working with us. They want to know what experience we're going to bring.
00:38:54
Speaker
And I have found that just a really great example, a really great brand out in the wild that I have come to again and again for what a high-end brand looks like for high-end clientele just in the wild is Amman Resorts. So they're a worldwide chain of hotels and resorts that
00:39:20
Speaker
are really driven home by the environment that they're in. So Amman Geary is the resort in Utah that is built into the Red Rock Canyon. There's another one in Wyoming as well, but just there are resorts all over the world. And
00:39:39
Speaker
The reason that I thought of them was because I just tried to think to myself like what brand out there to me is like the epitome of luxury. And for me, it was the Amman Resorts. And if you go to their website, I think it's just amman.com, you'll see a lot of this in action, just really powerful, stunning visuals.
00:39:59
Speaker
copy that is very light, but very intentional and powerful in the story building element. You never once catch them talking about things like the thread count on their sheets because people don't care. They do care. That's why they're spending $5,000 a night, but they know that that will be taken care of already.
00:40:23
Speaker
because simply by virtue of the fact that, you know, it's five grand a night, of course, but they want to know more instead about like how this will help them feel more connected with the earth and with themselves. And that's the story. That's the transformation story that is happening. That is really what is making people swipe, you know, multi five figures for a hotel stay, you
Sales as a Client Journey
00:40:48
Speaker
know,
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, a few things I think that you mentioned that I wanted to touch on a bit. One, I definitely think for the creative space, you know, the more high end, especially in the Wendy industry websites that I'm thinking of do have more of an editorial look. It's not these long sales pages, right? There is maybe a little bit more of a focus on the imagery.
00:41:08
Speaker
There's also probably a lot of things in play in the background too. I think when it comes to booking high-end clients, a good network I think comes into play, especially in the wedding industry for sure. But then in other industries you have, like in coaching for instance, you might find very few actual images and a very long, wordy sales page for something like that if you're like a coach and you're booking
00:41:32
Speaker
high ticket seats to a mastermind or whatnot, right? So a little bit industry specific but definitely like the creative industry, the websites I'm thinking of, some of the ones that we've done have more of this editorial feel to them. Before we end here as we're running out of time, I do want to ask how do you balance that tension between something that's like high converting and pulling on
00:41:55
Speaker
the strings that we need to pull in order to book a client or sell a product or whatever, but then also being engaging and fun, showing off your personality as well. Personally, I really rely on my intuition.
00:42:10
Speaker
But also, I think that's sometimes the fear, and I touched on this briefly before. The fear is I don't want to write just a ton because I know that people are unlikely to read it nowadays. And that's true, but I like to think that we should write to the point of like 100% clarity.
00:42:35
Speaker
regardless of how long that is and I mean of course there's boundaries there too like like don't let it be a novel right but like don't necessarily let that fear of too much copy hold you back because the people who have seen enough they will have made their choice
00:42:55
Speaker
And the people who need a little bit more information, a little bit more insight, they will keep reading. So that extra length that you might have been afraid of that you might have wanted to hold back on, now you might have somebody out there who's not getting what they need in order to make what they feel is an informed choice.
00:43:16
Speaker
So I always like to say, you know, people will stick around and read a long form copy if that's what they need in order to make the choice to convert or not, but they don't want to read boring copy. So I like to think that.
00:43:33
Speaker
you are just being of service when you can write more copy. And those who don't need it don't, and those who will, will just knowing how people approach making purchases online, basically. You have folks who know right away that you are for them, and then you have others who are a little bit more cautious.
00:43:53
Speaker
But also, I think that sometimes to kind of address your question in another way, sometimes especially creative types, I think can feel anxious about the idea of selling because my big philosophy is that you don't have to sell your soul in order to sell well.
00:44:11
Speaker
And you can absolutely do it by viewing it less as like a hard sell and instead viewing it as an invitation for somebody to come along on a journey. That's all about the perspective and the energy of which you approach something like writing for yourself. You know that day, you write it with the hope that people will join you on a journey.
00:44:37
Speaker
But if they don't, that's okay too. They're going to find the person who is best for them instead. And for me, it's all about approaching your writing with that perspective of not as a sale to be made, but as an invitation to be taken.
00:44:55
Speaker
I find that that really removes a lot of that pressure off of our own shoulders that is often self-imposed when it comes to selling. That's one of the biggest things that I can share. And I understand that perspective shifts like that take time, but just a couple of things that you can put into play immediately are just approaching your writing and any sort of selling that you have to do with just a listening ear.
00:45:20
Speaker
wanting to be of service rather than to open wallets necessarily. Just have that purity of intent and the people who are meant to find you, they absolutely will because they will sense that energy and what you've written. I really believe that.
00:45:35
Speaker
mindset shifts do take time. But I also encourage people to, you know, next time they're buying a product or service or they're investigating a product or service that they're thinking about purchasing, think about just that entire process. I'm thinking about the last time we bought a car, trying to explain to the car salesman like what it is that we need and it was kind of like this apathetic response of like, well, you know,
00:45:58
Speaker
this one could do it and you know maybe this one it's like well which one do you feel like is better you know if it's fits my knee and you know and that's not what I what I want right like we don't want when we're thinking through making a purchase certainly high ticket purchases we don't want somebody to be like well you know this is this could work and that could work and
00:46:16
Speaker
whatnot, we want somebody to sell to us. That helped me shift my mindset a little bit around selling. It is interesting how much of a mindset it really is, you know, like how much of a mindset or how much of an obstacle mindset can be for sure. But before we wrap up, where can people follow along? Where can people access the resources that you have
Contact Olivia and Resources Available
00:46:35
Speaker
available? I know you have a number of resources available at your website, which we will of course link to in the show notes. But where can people reach out if they want to work with you or learn more?
00:46:44
Speaker
Yeah, of course. So my website is oliviacarsonwrites.com. And on Instagram, I'm at oliviacarson. So you can kind of see how I write captions in a bit more of a free flowing organic sort of way. I also shared a copywriting tips there as well. But on my website, you can find resources under the resources tab, of course.
00:47:08
Speaker
I have a lot of different things available to you. Instagram captions, if you need some help sort of getting those together for your own content plan. I offer templates, copy and paste captions as well. If you just really need someone to do it for you for a day. Email subject line, swipe copy. I've got a lot of different things to help you.
00:47:28
Speaker
But you can also go to my website and find me for one-to-one work as well. So if you need a brand or a website writing done, if you need more launch copy done, I love to write sales pages, which we were talking about today. Lots of different things. And then I also have a membership as well called Word Smiths for Wellness, where we talk about a lot of those things like mindset shifting in that membership.
00:47:53
Speaker
Comes with a lot of things I do done for you Instagram captions we have guest experts come in and talk to us about how we can write for ourselves. With soul and we can do it that way by prioritizing our mental health and our headspace first it's very very fun and yeah I have a discount code as well for the membership it's brands that book.
00:48:19
Speaker
And the details of that coupon are in the show notes. Hopefully they will be. And same for one-to-one copywriting work as well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for joining us. Really appreciate it. I'd highly encourage you if you are investigating a, well, really any sort of project that involves words to go check out Olivia and her work. And like I said, all of that will be in the show notes. Thanks again, Olivia. Thank you so much.
00:48:50
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.