Transcript
Speaker: Made on Zencastr. Because Zencastr makes every stage of the podcast production and distribution processes so easy. Hello and welcome to Fit For My Age, the health and well-being podcast from Abyssaida.
Speaker: I'm your host, Michael Millward. Today I am learning about intimate relationships in our senior years from Dr. Larry Waldman, the author of Silver Sex, Insights into Senior Sexuality, which means that we are dealing with an adult theme, so please listen discreetly.
Speaker: Dr. Waldman is a licensed clinical forensic psychologist. Dr. Waldman is based in Phoenix, Arizona in the United States. If I ever get the opportunity to visit Phoenix in Arizona, I will make use of my membership of the Ultimate Travel Club to make all of my travel arrangements.
Speaker: That is because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club, I get to travel at trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and so many more travel related purchases.
Speaker: You will find a link with a built-in membership discount in the description, which will enable you to become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club and just like me, travel at trade prices.
Speaker: Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Fit For My Age that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading, and subscribing to. and probably want to share with your friends, family and work colleagues as well.
Speaker: Very importantly on Fit For My Age, we do not tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Now, hello Dr Waldman. Yes, hello. Glad to be here.
Speaker: I'm very pleased that you are here. Thank you very much. It's a very interesting subject that you've written about. What do we say? It's a subject that not many people really want to talk about, do they?
Speaker: As a matter of fact, you're you're right. Here in the States, at least, senior sex is frankly frowned upon. that's That's one of the comments I make in the book and talk about it.
Speaker: Yes. I mean, if you see a ah a couple and perhaps the gentleman appears a little older than than the female, Many people are just kind of shaking their head and thinking, well, this isn't right. And so on. I'm interested before we do that and finding out a little bit more about your career as a forensic clinical psychologist. What do you do as a forensic clinical psychologist? as As you said, I've, I worked in, in Phoenix, Arizona, and for the first 20 years of my practice, it was pretty traditional.
Speaker: And after a while, i realized that, oh, well, I'm paying my bills, but, um, That's pretty much um about it. So I ah felt I needed to do more and that, and that's when I pivoted, if you will, and did some reading and and consulting with other people and, and got into the legal consultation area or the forensic area.
Speaker: I started with family law, did quite a bit of work in that arena. And then moved on to personal injury work.
Speaker: And that was very rewarding. Helped a ah lot of people because a lot of people who had injuries of one sort or another were not getting completely compensated.
Speaker: And I made sure that those people did. Yes, well, their car got fixed or maybe their time off from work got repaid. and and things of that nature, but the the mental part.
Speaker: So you're making the assessments about the psychological impact of being involved in some sort of incident like a car accident actually had on the person who was making the claim for the insurance. Yes. and And then doing the treatment right and then writing a report that you know effectively lets the insurance company, if if one's involved, know that this person has been harmed. I mean, I had people who, let's say, had an auto accident and they couldn't drive after that yeah or couldn't drive at night or couldn't drive on the freeway. no All sorts of issues.
Speaker: Exactly. So that in in other arenas in the legal world as well. I became a a legal expert, if you will.
Speaker: Okay. Sounds great. Sounds really interesting. Now, of course, you're you're writing lots of books on this subject. Well, we're going to talk today about Silver Sex Insights into Senior Sexuality, but it's not your first book. What are the other books that you have written?
Speaker: I've written actually eight and started back in the late 80s with the first one. The books kind of follow my career. So the first one is entitled Who's Raising Whom?
Speaker: And in that, I teach parents to basically ah ah manage their children like a psychologist would. That book has been quite successful.
Speaker: the The second one, which kind of dovetails from that, is entitled Coping with Your Adolescent. I like to say if you haven't read the first book, you're certainly going to need the second one.
Speaker: We were all adolescents some point, weren't we? Exactly. The third one was my marriage book, if you will, entitled How Come I Love Him But Can't Live With Him?
Speaker: Marriage and How to Make Them Work and How to get Make Them Better and and so on. Things to do and not do. The fourth one was... some ah Too busy earning a living to make your fortune. That again was about yeah the pivot point that I was talking about. So I was writing, as I was investigating, you know making a change.
Speaker: I was writing about it as as well because I saw so many so many clients who were stuck in a job that they didn't like, but they were too afraid to know this problem go out go elsewhere.
Speaker: and And yes, it it was frightening, if you will. i mean I stopped taking insurance and things of that nature and ventured into other areas.
Speaker: Following that, I wrote and wrote a book um primarily for mental health providers entitled The the Graduate Course You Never Had.
Speaker: and this this was about how to develop, manage, and and effectively market a private practice. This book has been very interesting and successful as well because I've I've now branched out to not only speaking about this to mental health providers, but to attorneys, for instance, and basically other professional service providers.
Speaker: Later on, I did a book entitled Overcoming Your Negotiaphobia. i did this with a colleague of mine who was a business analyst.
Speaker: About negotiation techniques. Right. Negotiation techniques and how we live our life, if you think about it, from that perspective. I mean, we're negotiating with our spouse, our kids, of our boss, our co-workers, the car salesman, et cetera, et cetera. Everyone. The second last book, again, pertaining to the legal work that I was doing,
Speaker: is entitled to love your child more than you hate your ex. That talks about the family law work that I did, know, by that time, almost 20 years.
Speaker: I probably did 100 custody evaluations in in my time. And I did a fair amount of parenting coordinator as well. A lot of the books that you have written have been based around the work that you've been doing family law, for example.
Speaker: But the book, the the one most recent one, the Senior Sex Book, is that based around something that you've worked on as well in the legal sense? or what's the What was the catalyst for the book? Well, a couple of things. First off, I am a senior. In fact, I'll be 80 in my next birthday.
Speaker: But um I think I also am appropriate for what you're about. I am very fit. I work out regularly and have since I was a ah young teen.
Speaker: And I'm a certified trainer. and latin And in 24, I became a certified yoga instructor.
Speaker: And so I stay very fit. um Occasionally... And very simple as well with zac with the yoga. Occasionally, my body, you know, my my yeah my my almost 80-year-old body will let me down. And, you know, and i get a a typical thing that many seniors get. and And that, you know, puts me out for a little while. I had some back issues and things of that nature.
Speaker: Like many senior men, urological issues as well. But overall, yes, I'm amongst my peers and so on. I'm known as quite fit.
Speaker: In my practice, i I saw numerous couples, probably at least 500 or more in my time.
Speaker: and And many times, of course, they were um getting on in in age and so forth. Many times they were older than I was at the time.
Speaker: and um And bedroom issues were were were common, very common, as a matter of fact. Plus, ah know as I aged and so on, I saw personally what was going on and and with my friends as well.
Speaker: And as I say in the book, I have a friend a very close friend and we would meet on a regular basis, have lunch at at ah a favorite delicatessen that that we frequented.
Speaker: And he would, we would have these various discussions about what's going on in our lives and and and so on. He would say, you know, you need to write about this.
Speaker: Ultimately, I did. it's some research of course. and Well, one item in particular, I think that that really triggered it. And I mentioned it in the book, My wife and I like to read People magazine. It's ah it's a weekly magazine that comes out in the States and basically it lets you know what's going on with the celebrities, you know, whatever. yeah I kind of scan it. Anyhow, they have this section of, you know, what what's up.
Speaker: There was a segment about two celebrities. One a male was 62. And the female was 74.
Speaker: And they said that they had passed from natural causes. right Right. No heart disease, no liver disease, no diabetes or whatever.
Speaker: And I went, what? Wait a minute. That doesn't make any sense. And I wrote them and said, hold on. yeah Maybe you you wrote that because the people might have suicided, what possibly, there and and there was some embarrassment, although that's that's another topic too.
Speaker: But people who are 62 74 who have no chronic illnesses... Do not simply just keel over. to say it was you know natural causes, frankly, smacks of ageism.
Speaker: That was what triggered absolutely triggered it. And I started writing shortly after that. You said that you did some research into the book. What sort of areas were you covering in the research?
Speaker: What sort of things did you get involved in? Well, I took a look at what had been written on that topic previously. they're there And of course, i I cite them in my bibliography. there There had been some written and so forth. I don't think they got quite into the psychology as I do, but That plus, again, my my experience in in the in the therapy office, a half century and so forth, basically put it together.
Speaker: When it comes to sex in our senior years and and intimate relationships, is most of the the challenges that people face, is most of it psychological? Is it that we've grown up to believe that sex is something that only young people do? That there's an age where you're not supposed to do it anymore, you're not supposed to want it anymore, and we worry as much about what other people think about us we do about what our partner may think or we may think about ourselves? Is is that part of the issue? It is.
Speaker: It is. know the Again, I can only speak from the the U.S. s perspective. We don't honor our seniors. that that's it's I know it it sounds crass, but it's true.
Speaker: Unlike other cultures that really idolize their seniors and they take their seniors into their home and care for them and things that. and things of that nature. We don't do that here.
Speaker: what What we do is we make fun of them. We treat them as asexual beings. We don't like anything about elderly men or women having sex and so forth. That's kind of taboo. When we become elderly and feeble, we get shunted off into certain care facilities.
Speaker: that's so That's a large part of it. And many, unfortunately, seniors buy into it. i mean, it's it's all over the place. So they agree, well, I'm old and I'm not what I used to be. So why bother, you know, even thinking about, you know, sex and so forth. And why bother, you Being active. Why work out?
Speaker: What for? Who cares? Who's looking? i really get in into that in the book. And I really do believe it's happening. It's not so much that people don't want to, and it's not so much that they're not capable of. If they look after themselves and are physically active, there's no reason why they can't also be physically active in an intimate relationship.
Speaker: What we're saying is that a large part of the challenges that people face are their expectation or acceptance that they're not supposed to want it they're not supposed that's something that younger generations do not us and then all of the pressures get piled onto people like you were saying it's not really lots of people frown upon an older gentleman younger lady but also the other way around as well we have Celebrities who can almost get press coverage because they might be in their 70s, but their their partner is a lot younger than them, 20, 30 years younger than them. I'm thinking, Madonna, Cher.
Speaker: Somehow it's all right if you're a celebrity, but not if you're not. it's It's more all right if the elderly one is the female than the male.
Speaker: So we have we have that going on as well. Yes, that is a thing. You're absolutely right. the this the the psychology You've described the psychology right on.
Speaker: It's not to say, of course, that there aren't some... medical or or biological issues. Clearly, there are. I mean, let's not kid ourselves. yeah When you're a a teenager, you know, you're you're hot to trot, you know, and so forth, everything works and can work fine for whatever. ah This is going to be one of those those real adult moments because when you're a teenager, it's all, like you say, you're hot to trot. It's all a bit flash in the pan, very over and done with. And as you get older, what I'm thinking is that, yeah, you might not be able to perform in that same sort of way as you could in your teens, early 20s or 20s. But if you focus on the physical side of it in that sort of sense, then I'm thinking that that's probably
Speaker: not going to be a positive way forward for you. It's about intimacy and finding ways to express intimacy with someone that you are in an intimate relationship with.
Speaker: Absolutely. That's what's important. and And sometimes so the the medical issues might completely interfere you know, with traditional lovemaking. The rate of erectile dysfunction, you know, with with senior men, you know, in their 70s and so on, particularly if they smoke or drink or are overweight and so on, you know is probably 80-90%. women have issues as well that occur with age.
Speaker: there Vaginal walls are much thinner than than before. So they're not lubricated. It can be painful and so on. So there there are medical issues. Heart conditions, of course, can get in the way.
Speaker: So yes, you know biological factors do come into play. But just to emphasize what you were saying, that doesn't mean you still cannot be romantic with your partner.
Speaker: In the book, you're explaining the the issues, the challenges, the causes of those issues, which are not necessarily always with the individuals. There is a lot of societal pressure as well.
Speaker: And then you're also providing some ideas, I suppose, on different ways to Because as we age, our sexuality goes through different phases. And this is just another phase of our sexuality and our expression of love within an intimate relationship, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, it it it has, it does have to change.
Speaker: You can still be the intimate. I mean, if the male is having you know problems and getting or sustaining an erection, that doesn't mean that we're done.
Speaker: No, that that's that's not fair. Certainly not fair to your partner. So there there are things that we we can certainly do.
Speaker: can still hug and touch and and use our hands and and our know and our mouth and For that matter, a little hardware sometimes might might come in handy. Yes. Vibrator or something like that, that can help your partner perhaps reach a climax that that that now you know you can't help her achieve. Yes. Or him, for that matter, depending on what kind of couple we're talking about. Yeah. That's a real important point and one that I used to see, it frankly, in my office.
Speaker: I saw gentlemen in their 40s, 50s who do to various things, again, like smoking, drinking, obesity, things of of that nature, or diabetes that, again, know inhibited them to function you normally sexually.
Speaker: And therefore, they just shut the door. Okay, I'm done. Well, that's not fair to your part. Not fair to yourself either, is it, really? Not really. No, you're a good point. No, exactly. Yeah. It's just, I suppose, one thing is from the book is that learning that your sexuality changes in terms, or how you express your sexuality changes as you age, because everything changes as you age.
Speaker: But there's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. It is simply just, I suppose, learning for yourself, I think, what it is that you want and having the conversations with your partner to make sure that you're both looking for the same type of thing.
Speaker: Right. A lot of times men in particular are feeling shame about this. They don't seek any help. Yes.
Speaker: which Which is unfortunate. But the help is there, isn't it? The help is available. b Yes, there is. Yeah, there is. And it's been going on for a long, long time, going back thousands of years, that this is an issue that affects both men and women as they age.
Speaker: And I suppose what you used to do all night, it now it takes you all night to do, is not really a problem as long as you are understanding that as part of your aging process and maintaining your own interest and the interest of your partner as well. Let me also mention that some of the medications that you know you and your partner might be taking can also have a negative impact on on sexuality.
Speaker: Yeah, it is a complex subject, one that people are embarrassed about discussing, There's no reason to be really. It's more a case of like, get educated, find out some information, talk to your general practitioner, and make sure that you find a solution that works for you and your partner.
Speaker: Frankly, some physicians are even a little embarrassed to talk about some of this. And so if you are being frank and you're speaking to your physician and he or she is you know, kind of uncomfortable or says something like, and frankly, I've heard this pointed at myself one time, already 75, you know, as if to say 75, well, give it up. You should be done. And this was a physician who said this, believe it or not.
Speaker: Of course, not one that I see anymore, but, you know, that was clear that this was his, you know, his perspective, his bias. Which is exactly what we're talking about when we started, which was like all too often we fall into the trap of following the social perception, the the limitations that social expectations put on the way in which we all live our lives.
Speaker: It's not actually how we want to live. And it's about understanding what you and your partner want and making sure that that happens in the way that you both want it to happen.
Speaker: It's, I suspect, in lots of ways, it's a liberating experience. I get the feeling from the book and from what you're saying that understanding how your expression of your sexuality as you age is changing and understanding that can be quite liberating for people.
Speaker: Yes, it is. Obviously, it changes. And like you said, it takes longer, it's slower. It doesn't happen perhaps as often. Your appetite changes. if But all of that doesn't mean that that you you still can't have intimacy. You can talk to your doctor to get help. You can also talk to the doctor about what you know what are the side sexual side effects of the medicines that you're on, and might there be an alternative.
Speaker: You can also think about you know if you take your medicine, let's say in the morning, that maybe you want to schedule some intimacy earlier in the morning before you take that pill, ah which know is going to have its most powerful effect shortly after you've taken it.
Speaker: If you're having... having, let's say, struggling with arthritis and you're very stiff and so forth, maybe take a hot morning shower or bath and then have some intimacy when you're a little more mobile, if you will.
Speaker: There are, again, things that that can be done that can know enhance the intimacy in you know in a ah senior couple.
Speaker: And it's important. It really is. It is. It is. You know, Dr. Waldman, it has been very interesting. i really do appreciate your time and the insights that you've given us into sexuality as we age.
Speaker: Your book is Silver Sex, Insights into Senior Sexuality. But for today, thank you very much. do appreciate your time. Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker: It's been great. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and in this episode of Fitful My Age, I have been having a conversation with Dr. Larry Waldman, author of the book Silver Sex, inc Insights into Senior Sexuality.
Speaker: You can find out more information about both of us by using the links in the description. You'll also find links which will take you through to online shops where you can purchase silver sex.
Speaker: I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Fit for My Age as much as Dr. Waldman and I have enjoyed making it. Please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
Speaker: To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. You will probably also want to tell your friends, family and work colleagues about this episode of Fit for My Age as well.
Speaker: Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of Fit for My Age, thank you for listening and goodbye.
