Transcript
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Speaker: Hello and welcome to Fit for My Age, the health and wellbeing podcast from Abysida, on which we don't tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
Speaker: I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysida. Today i am learning about something which I think I should have learned about a long time ago, meditation and the breathing exercises that go with it, from Nora Cassie, who is quite a pro prolific author on the subject, and we're going to focus on one of her books called Introduction to Meditation, a Beginner's Guidebook, which is really where I am at at the moment, so looking forward to this myself now.
Speaker: Nora is based in Kent in the southeast of England, somewhere where I think I've been once or twice. But if I ever get the chance to go again, i will be sure to make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club,
Speaker: I get access to trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, all sorts of travel-related purchases. You'll find a link in the description with a built-in discount so that you can become a member of the Ultimate Travel Club as well and just like me, travel at trade prices.
Speaker: Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Fit for My Age that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to, and probably well worth telling your friends, family and work colleagues about as well.
Speaker: Hello Nora. Hey Michael, thank you so much for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm very grateful. Thank Like I said, meditation is something which I have often thought about, but I've never actually done the exploration to understand what it is or how to get involved with it. And so this is a voyage of discovery for me that I am very much looking forward to. And I suppose i should really start by asking you, how did you get involved in meditation?
Speaker: Yeah, that's a long story as well. And I can i can relate with you 100% because I was wondering, what is meditation? How do people get in meditation? Why do they do meditation? How do they find the time to actually do meditation? Because I always imagined there were, you know, mostly were monks that had a lot of time on their hands and they were of sitting there for hours. and that's But I knew there was something for me. There was definitely something for me in there. And um it took me 10 years to actually figure out why, because i don't think it's that easy. And I think there's a number of preconceived ideas and myths about what it is and how hard it is and how much time you need to invest on it. And um I couldn't understand it. My logical mind could not understand it. I come from, you know, corporate world and I was very busy, you know, doing lots of things and just didn't understand it. And that the fact that it was... you need to not have any thoughts because that's kind of what what I've been told. It's you need to not have any thoughts. It was, it really disturbed me. But um throughout the years, um and it took me 10, 11 years, and I was able to slowly
Speaker: understanding what it is and how to get there. And I made in my my mission, we can call it, to help people understand or help people get into this path in an easier way. So whatever I've learned, i could share with other people so it'll be easier for them and not take 10 years or not take that you know this logical mind because what it was in my way was my logical mind. It was all this, how do I get to not have any thought at all. And that for me, it was the the biggest hurdle to um overcome.
Speaker: Yeah. I think because Abbasida means to put into logical order. So I think I face the same sort of challenge. And I think Maybe a large part of my perception of meditation meditation is things that I've seen on the TV and comedy programs. And like you say, gurus and monks sitting on the top of a pole for hours on end um meditating without really understanding anything about what meditation actually is. So hopefully I won't take 10 years to understand it. but And hopefully anybody, nobody's going to waste, you know, 10 years of their life. Because hopefully it's goingnna there's going to be an easier explanation somewhere in the world.
Speaker: Yeah. So, but what is meditation? You've alluded to this idea that you have no thoughts at all, which is slightly scary. Yeah. But what is meditation? So the way I like to think about it is there's two, I'm yeah i'm going to talk about two ways. So for me personally meditation.
Speaker: um our mind and I'm going to talk a little bit more later about this because I think this is going to be very helpful for your listeners but our mind is an electrical kind of powerhouse so everything that we have is electrical frequency so you know the thoughts are just you know a frequency it's just ah an electrical signal that connects yeah so let's just think about that way and There's a law, one I'm not going to go there today, but there's a law that is all is mine because it all starts with a thought.
Speaker: We only have one thought at a time. I know we think we have lots of thoughts, but what happens is we jump from one to the next and that one is what makes us... flustered or worried is just the thoughts. So if we think about two things, is the thoughts are the the beginning of everything and then we only have one thought at a time. If we can control the one time, that one second that you have that thought, you're helping everything basically, all your creation, your life. um So that's one thing. The other way I thought about it and I put it in my book is
Speaker: meditation is like the edition of yourself so basically is and this is makes more sense in spanish but it's like me edito which means i'm editing myself which is i take whatever i'm thinking at the moment and i overwrite it whatever i want it to be at that moment yeah so it's like no thought to, then I'll put the thought I want. But I know this sounds super complicated. And and I think the the the way that we can make this so much simpler is to kind of tag along the fact that our minds are... um
Speaker: an electrical powerhouse where everything is electric and we have different frequencies with different velocity. So if we if we're going to take it out of the science world, but just thinking about one wave can be really slow. So it's very flat. So it's a slow wave or a very fast, fast wave is going to be very tall. and we call it like high frequency. So it's low frequency, slow waves, and high frequency, fast waves. So we have different waves, and that's in chapter two of my book, but we have different frequencies, and in those different frequencies, our brain does different things, yes? And so for example, if we are in beta, in beta waves, they call them,
Speaker: um There are in um in a frequency, there is is medium frequency, which is 12 to 32 Hertz. And that's when you're you know in overthinking, like firing emails, concentrating is what we're doing right now. Like it's like revving the engine and getting all the power.
Speaker: That's our brain works well and can do that very, very well. But we cannot be with a car in the top maximum speed at all times, right? Because it will collapse. And that's what happens to a lot of us when we are in work mode and in work environments, we're just revving the engine to the maximum. And um what happens is meditation and breath work particularly can control and have access to the rhythm in these electrical frequencies. That means that you can control whether you are in that state or in a different state. state Did that help? It was too scientific. its
Speaker: and No, no, no, no. I'm imagining that the brain is like a power station for electricity. And if I understand how the various different switches work, then I can focus the energy within the brain so that I'm able to get to a point where I can meditate.
Speaker: You, is, is, there's a subtle change there. You can get to a point where you can meditate, but you can also have control of where your brain is at, whether it's in an alpha state, which is more for, you know, you know high performances, flow, et cetera, with your breath as well. So it's both. So it's whether you can control it to be in meditation state, which is, I think what you just said, but also with your breath, because it's a form of meditation, you're using that to get your brain to be in one of those states. Because in work, you don't want to be all the time in just one way, because when you're doing brainstorming, you need to be in a completely different mode, for example.
Speaker: Right. Okay. i can The cogs in my brain are starting to move and i can I'm understanding. So the trick a trick may be the wrong word to use, but the our ability to meditate is dependent upon our ability to control the energy flow in our brain. Absolutely.
Speaker: Right. And I talked about switches, but there isn't a switch light in your brain like the one on the wall in your in your room. The switches come from how we breathe. The switch is in your breath, the main switch. So there are various tools. So I don't want um people to think there is the only one switch, but the way to control or that switch or the brake pedal one of them is the breath. So for example, slow breathing, very slow breathing, thickens you know parts of your brain, right? So if you start doing is slow breathing or controlled breathing, you know, in a more um specific way through your nose, like four breaths in four breaths holding, four breaths out, and for four breaths holding. It's called box reading. That, it's the center, what it does, it thickens that part, and that is the center for clear thinking, patience, self-control, And basically what you're doing by this regular deliberate breathing, what you're doing is just changing the architecture of this powerhouse, basically. You're kind of building new pathways and it's not that you are...
Speaker: um oh, I'm becoming more controlled or now I have more emotional regulation. No, it's your brain has a hardware that has been upgraded.
Speaker: Yes? So the breath has the capacity not only to um get your different frequencies or your waves in different states, but also to grow, to to change the patterns in your brain.
Speaker: And who would have known that? i know and i Precisely. But the breathing, your breath, is all about taking air into your body and releasing it in a more controlled way in this process. Because the fuel that your brain uses is the oxygen that is in your breath. Absolutely, So yes if you are having a more controlled breathing... or
Speaker: I get the feeling that controlled breathing is the wrong expression to use. Maybe more conscious breathing. you That's how you control the pace at which your brain operates.
Speaker: Absolutely. So let me give you examples here. So for example, when you, let's say that you are um walking, you know, you have long walks, you know, when people are like, um you know, i tend to do sailing, all those little really relaxing states that kind of um induce this flow and big state, those are called alpha waves. you can also trigger that state, that type of brain frequency with your breath. So if you do the one that I just mentioned just now, the four, it's called four box breathing, four, four, four, and four, which is four in, for hold, for out, and for hold again, which is a rhythmic breathing. This also mirrors, so what it does, the brain mirrors your heart rate as well. And what it does, it allows you to get into the state almost automatically. And you can, you know, you can...
Speaker: go into your next session, you can go into your next meeting, you can go into um souos switch tasks. So it's just almost like an automatic thing that we're not only using for keeping us alive, but also to induce certain um frequencies in our brain, serve as cap capacityities certain capacities in our brain.
Speaker: Right, so that tends to suggest that if you have a different approach to breathing, different pattern, different breathing pattern, you can change the way in which your brain is functioning.
Speaker: Yes, that's exactly it. I'm going to go the other way around here. So when we have shallow breathing, so, so you know, some people have these panic attacks or they have, they're going like that. yeah That also induces the other way.
Speaker: It makes you even more anxious. So as you just said, The breathing can induce a state and a way that your brain acts. So it increases, you know, neuroplasticity, increases brain matter, increases or or sets out different, you know, brain waves.
Speaker: The opposite also creates the opposite effect. It's not that it's just, oh, I'm just like shallow breathing. No, no, no. It actually goes against and it does not help. And it can create even more anxiety. Yeah.
Speaker: So. Yeah, it's like you got me thinking. You really have got me thinking. Yeah. The different ways in which we breathe impact the amount of oxygen that we take in, which impacts what we can do with that oxygen, which will then affect how our brain functions and also all of the various different parts of our body can function as well. But the breathing, when I say affects how our brain operates, it also will impact how we feel. Like when you say if you've got the sharp, short, sharp intake of breath, then that's more likely to make an anxiety attack type of a situation worse because your brain isn't getting the food that it needs in order to operate in a more calm way.
Speaker: But there's so something else in there. So it's not only the food or the oxygen that your brain definitely needs, but also there is... um When you inhale, or when the let me put it the other way, when you exhale longer, um this stimulates something that we have. It's called the vagus nerve, which is what links is the nerve that links the brain with you know the last the cut you know the whole you know with everything, yeah and the as well. So
Speaker: the fact that you are stimulating this in a in a long way, in a you know in a rhythmic but also long exhalation with way, that creates a safe to rest state. So you are out of fight or flight and immediately this resets the vagus nerve and it puts you into this state of, okay, I am safe. So, and we're not talking about, um you know, breathing like,
Speaker: like not like big, it's more about the rhythm rhythmic part of it. So it's not just the um theyre in the oxygen that you're picking up with your brain, but also about the rhythm and the long rhythm that stimulates the vagus nerve. but This is really important because we didn't know all these connections ah that the breath has with the nervous system, all these kind of tied up places when it's not only about the oxygen that we get in the brain, but also how it stimulates different parts in our body. Right.
Speaker: How many different types of breathing are there? many And that's why what I'd like to do, given the time we have, I think what I'd like to do is give your audience um just a couple so they can just use whenever um they feel that they need them. So for example, I've mentioned quite a bit already, this rhythmic box breathing, which is the four, four, four, four. So four fours basically. And now I want the audience to think about this one a
Speaker: If in any moment I need to kind of reset or I need to go into a rhythmic way that is going to affect my nervous system and my vagus nerve, I will resource to the box breathing.
Speaker: Now, if I want long exhalation, because um you still are going to do it with ah in a rhythmic way, but you may...
Speaker: want to go into a very safe and calm state with the vagus nerve again, I usually recommend this one before going to sleep or if you're having a moment of quiet, you know a lot of anxiety. So,
Speaker: And the reason is some people, you know, they're like, yeah, but, you know, I sleep, I just go to bed and that's it. Yes, but the way you go to sleep, because you need to get rid of all the toxic waste, that is so important. So for anybody that is needing to work the next day, they have to go to sleep in a deep rest state, which is the delta state. And long exhalations, like a four and eight. So I take the breath and then I hold it for one or two and then I I exhale it for like eight, that will do that for you.
Speaker: Yes. Right. So the, the bigger the breaths we take, the slow we take them, the slower we exhale, the more likely we are to feel more relaxed.
Speaker: And the the rhythm, the rhythm is important. Yes. Yeah. And the shorter the way in which we breathe, the more likelihood we are to feel stressed, to feel anxious, and to be focused on something that may not actually
Speaker: An anxiety attack means you've focused on just being anxious. But with the longer breaths, that's where we've become more relaxed. And the more relaxed we are, the more likely we are to be able to successfully meditate. Yes. And then let me just um share the whole thing about meditation. So meditation is, there's so many practices. There's, you know, I listed like, I think 30 in the book. So, and there are probably even more.
Speaker: One of the the other things that is important that the listener takes away is like, don't overcomplicate. And meditation is just a state where you're able to achieve that kind of ah one thought that you can accept. whether So it's not a space of not thought, it's a space where you can accept the thought and then let it go. and And breathing is just a tool within the meditation techniques to allow your brain to settle into into the state, or to help you achieve that state, or to just be the, you know, meditation tool that you're going to use. So meditation is just, you know, an array of many, many, many, many things that you can be doing. You can be walking, you can be breathing. There's, you know, at least, you know, 30, 40, 50 ways of breathing that are going to achieve different things. You can be humming, you can um be, you know, doing sports, you can be doing so so meditation, you can be washing dishes when you're meditating.
Speaker: but is So you don't have to be sitting cross-legged on the floor exactly with your forefinger and thumb touching. Exactly. And that's what I want everybody to you know to live with. is It's not about that one thing. It's about making sure that you are you are the one the controlling the mind and not the mind controlling you.
Speaker: Right. Okay. Because that was my impression. You've got to have a quiet space. You've got to you know, some people might light candles or or something, whatever. You want to a quiet space and then you can meditate.
Speaker: For those people who still do, like me, do the washing up, you mentioned you can meditate when you wash, when you're doing the washing up. How would you do that? We just focus on the task because by just focusing on the task, first of all, the rounds, this was in the past, by the way, and this is really anecdotal, but doing the washing of the dishes with the round movement generates oxytocin. Oxytocin is the happiness hormone. So you are really focusing on that movement. So you are having one thought, which is, I am washing, I'm just doing this. And and if you can just focus on what you're doing, which is doing the dishes, that is a form of meditation. It is. It's proven to have the right hormones.
Speaker: Right, which makes me think that when we're talking about the kitchen, I don't mind doing the washing up at all, or the drying up. It seems to save an awful lot of water and electricity in comparison to a dishwasher.
Speaker: But when you mention the things that you can do, which mean you could focus on doing something, and that leads to meditation, or i'm before you said this to me, I would have just thought it's a relaxed state, but It's things like preparing vegetables and doing the ironing. As long as you are in the moment, present in the moment with your thoughts. So whilst you're peeling the potatoes, you are thinking about peeling the potatoes, not about what you are going to do next or what you might do tomorrow.
Speaker: Meditation comes from focusing your thoughts so that there is one thought. and And that thought is in the present moment. In the present moment. So when we hear a lot of Gen Zers and woke people talking about being present, it's ah they're talking about being in a state where you're actually able to meditate. Yes, and absolutely, you crack the code. and And it's not about, you know, sitting cross-legged again. It's about you being able to have that one thought, which is today in the present moment. Because if you already are thinking about what you're going to do tomorrow, you're in the future timeline, you're already generating anxiety. If you're going into the past, you're probably, you know, generating regret or guilt or whatever. That's why you need to be in the present moment. And ideally, if a thought comes, you can let it go. So you're peeling the potatoes, you're focusing on the potatoes, the boss that yelled at you came comes in, you just let it go, that thought. And that mastery of the thought going and coming That's the mastery. It's not the sitting cross-legged. It's the actual being able to manage the thoughts. Right.
Speaker: That is, every day is a school day. But I'm smiling here with a big grin on my face because I've learned so much in the last almost half an hour and yeah there is so much more to learn i know there is so much more to learn but the awareness that you've given me now of the breathing and the activities around meditation and this idea that you are present one thought i i do leave this feeling
Speaker: somewhat, well more than somewhat, I feel empowered to try it. ah feel, I really do feel empowered to try it, you know. Thank you very much, Noor, it's fascinating and yeah, we must do this again sometime.
Speaker: Absolutely. And thank you. if you can be empowered and there's one other person in the world that can be empowered by this, you know, the job is done, you know, and it's just taking this breathing is more than keeping you alive, guys. Please, please, please. If you do the breathing exercises and you're present in the moment, your brain will upgrade.
Speaker: Sounds great. Sounds great. Thank you very much. Thank you and have a lovely day. I will. Rest of the day. I will. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida, and in this episode of Fit for My Age, I have been having a conversation with Nora Cassie, an expert in meditation and an author of, I think it's 12 books now on the topic, and the one that I about have been reading is Introduction to Meditation, a Beginner's Guide.
Speaker: You can find out more about both of us by using the links in the description.
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Speaker: Until the next episode of Fit for My Age, thank you for listening, and goodbye.
