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Goodbye Horses (and Halo?)
47 Plays22 minutes ago
Today we discuss some CONTROVERSY. It's piping hot tea! And also we talk at length about what we are playing. New book next week!
https://nogamesforgenocide.com
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Patreon Shoutout
00:00:00
Speaker
elbows, abdomens and ah abs and elbows, all abs and elbows. You know who else all abs and elbows? whats that Hey everybody, welcome back to Pixel It. My name is Kevin, with me as always is Phil on today's show. We got no book.
00:00:13
Speaker
um no No book at all. We're just gonna shoot the shit for a little bit and get into what are you playing. um So, you know, that that's cool. um And you know what else is cool is our Patreon, patreon.com slash Pixel It pod, where you too ah can give us money. We have three tiers, and at the top tier, $10 a month, you get your name shouted out in every episode.
00:00:38
Speaker
And to that end, want thank Ed are you hot and You Are Hiding, Jesus Loves You, Kyle Seaman, Ruthless Mudder, Middle of Things, Sigma South, Sanguine Flatulence, Chut Beaks Dummy Thick, and Friendly Friend. Thank you so much for being a friend.
Discussion on Gaming and Ethics
00:00:52
Speaker
um So, ah yeah, the the book, the book status. what is yeah What is the status of book? So, we originally were planning on reading a book,
00:01:06
Speaker
ah a Halo book. um We were were're on the Vance reader list and it was we were supposed to get it a while ago. ah yeah it's it's we We don't know what's going on for two separate reasons. For two separate reasons. right yeah There's two separate reasons why there's no book. Um, so reason number one, ah it was going to be sent to us and then it, it, it has been missing in action on the sending and also, ah sub point a on the outline of reasons is Phil reached out and haven't really gotten a response from them no after the initial back and forth. Um, so that's okay. Fine. So we didn't have an episode last week.
00:01:53
Speaker
yeah we We were like, all right, fine. we'll We'll just not do an episode last week because it's Thanksgiving. um And then ah this week we're like, oh, the bocus but book is still not here. um And so it's getting it was getting close. And i was like, all right, well, Wednesday night, we'll push the episode back a week a day this week.
00:02:14
Speaker
We'll record Wednesday night and we'll just shoot the shit. ah Cut to last night. I'm talking with a bunch of peers of ours, a bunch of video SCS peers. um And one of the things that comes up is ah this petition, ah no games for genocide.
00:02:31
Speaker
So as some folks of you, some folks of you, that's not a turn of phrase. Several yous of you people. several uses of you people um Two Utes. um The two what? ah No games. we We're just talking about vocal stims in the pre-show. ah Yeah. um No Games for Genocide, which is a very specific version of the Microsoft BDS boycott.
00:02:58
Speaker
ah It's just like, hey, gamers, ah parentheses derogatory. um How about you put your money where your mouth is and don't buy things from Microsoft? Don't buy games from Microsoft. Don't support Microsoft games.
00:03:14
Speaker
Don't give any money to ah their Game Pass Don't buy an Xbox. Don't buy their peripherals. And don't buy anything from the Microsoft Associated Studios, which is a lot.
00:03:30
Speaker
There's and this is a whole separate tangent related to this as to reason number one bajillion as to why industry consolidation is bad. Because when you say don't buy anything from Microsoft Studios, that's including... ah You know, your're your Bethesda's, your In Exiles, your Arcanes, your id, your machine games. ah It's a lot. it' It's a lot. There's a lot of studios involved in this. ah Double Fine. I love Double. Tim Schafer?
00:04:04
Speaker
One of my video games. They're Microsoft Studio. Can't do it. they They just released a game, too. I i would have liked to have checked checked it out. But I signed the petition. I'm going to be like, you know what? I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and I'm going to say no games for genocide until Microsoft is no longer complicit in the Gazan genocide that is being perpetrated by the IDF.
00:04:29
Speaker
Okay. um Israeli Defense Force. For for for ah for a clarity, they they they have several major contracts. ah Several big boy contracts. Just yeah beefy beefy boy contracts. They're entangled to hell with yeah with this. It's like IBM and Nazi Germany.
00:04:49
Speaker
ah If you want to parallel, you know, ah n IBM with the the tallying machines for the Holocaust. Right. You know, that kind of thing. ah machine was it tallying for the Holocaust or was it just like the the system the machines for organizing it I don't know it it was one or the other it doesn't they were it was involved it was involved um so taking a sip hmm There we go. up That's the good shit.
00:05:21
Speaker
So where does that leave us? I signed it. I sent it over to Phil. was like, hey, take a look at this. And Phil was like, ah, yeah, I'm signing it. I'm canceling my game pass. And we're like, great. And we patted ourselves on the back. And then I had a slow motion like...
00:05:37
Speaker
It was like the scene at the end of usual suspects spoilers when the detective realizes that he's been talking to Kaiser. So say ah the entire time um and he like drops his coffee cup and you know, he sees the ah like, oh, a barbershop quartet, ah you know, that kind of shit. We look at the board and he drops it all together, puts it all together.
00:06:04
Speaker
um And it it crashes to the ground. ah and I was like, oh, but what about the Halo book? ryan And I'm going to be honest with you folks. I haven't thought of Halo as a Microsoft video game.
00:06:24
Speaker
In a little bit because, a I didn't play Halo Infinite. Like, I don't know why. It just wasn't like the synapse that connected the the two thoughts.
00:06:36
Speaker
Sure. just They just didn't fire. And then I was like, it's it would be very... we just signed this pledge. It would be very much against the spirit of the pledge to be like, well, we're not buying any Microsoft games. But here's this book...
00:06:52
Speaker
halo this is this book about halo their their first their flagship video game franchise but yeah arguably their most important franchise like like of all time yeah uh i mean they're probably their money maker is probably call duty but you know with right right but at this point but you know halos kind of their halo it's halo um So there's no book tonight and we're not going to be doing Halo. And I talked about it. If you're in our discord, I already talked about it. You know, I pinged everyone is like, hey, by the way, this is what's happening. So if you're from you're in the discord and you were listening to us right now, this is no surprise. If you aren't in the discord, you know, hey, join the discord. And, you know, it's also a great website. Patreon dot com slash. But did I already know? you did that but you know what you know what also is a great website you could take a look at is a no games for genocide.com no games for genocide.com if you are a gamer you are a streamer if you're a journalist uh you can sign the pledge and uh do your best and to to
00:08:04
Speaker
let's not Let's not give Microsoft any way out. Microsoft's been doing a lot of weird bullshit with AI, too. lot of weird bullshit. And and you know and that's the thing. it's it's there's ah there's There's only so much we can do. and it's not even like And it's not even like Kevin and I both signed this thing and I canceled my Xbox Game Pass and we're not covering this book. And and and a lot of people will listen and go, ooh, you guys are really... And it's not like that. It's not like we're expecting that...
00:08:33
Speaker
Microsoft is going to feel that blow and and pixel. It isn't covering your fucking book, guys. How do you like them apples? ah But they, they it's, it's just a matter of sticking to your guns on this shit. And, and yeah, you know, having the courage of convictions.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah. What's the point of having values if you're not going to act when the values are ah being called into action?
00:09:02
Speaker
Right. Especially when it's something as as minor as this. Yeah. ah You know, it that was the thing. When Kevin mentioned it, I had the same moment. I was like, oh, fuck, he's right.
00:09:14
Speaker
and and and immediately my brain went, I don't think they mentioned books. They were just talking about games, though. They were just talking about, and I had to take that part of my brain and go, shut the fuck up. That doesn't, yeah we we cannot split these hairs. That is that is not going to impress anybody. yeah ah you know So, yeah. man i own i wrote no as ah yeah yeah and and i And I wrote one. Yeah, and I wrote the public relations team that we've been working with for these. and explain the situation. I haven't heard back from him, but then again, I haven't heard back from him a week ago when I asked where's the book.
00:09:48
Speaker
um So it's just as well. ah But I, you know, I explained the situation and said, you know, we'd love to cover your book, but we don't, we're not going to do it until this boycotts over or something has,
00:09:59
Speaker
shifted and, uh, and left it at that. And, uh, so we'll give you updates on how they react if at all. Uh, we might, uh, I was just thinking to make up to it to our, our favorite, uh, pixel it author, ah oh Kelly Gay. Yeah, Kelly Gay. i'm We might ah might say, hey, let's cover one of her original titles. That'd be fun. Just as ah as a fill-in at some point in the near future.
00:10:29
Speaker
um i think that was the hardest part. She's my yeah favorite Halo author. I know you love her too. And and it's a brand new Kelly Gay book. and that yeah ah That sucks, man. like that really i'm ki I'm getting pissed off about it right now.
00:10:45
Speaker
God damn it. she's She's so good. She's just such a good damn writer. She's a damn good writer. One of the probably, I would say... I would say at this point, the best we've covered, the best writer we' yeah we've covered, just just pound for pound, just been crushed it with every every book that she's she's put out there. So that's, true you know, it's a bummer, but we're standing by our our convictions and that stuff. the grand scheme of things, it's the right thing to do, and it and it doesn't, like...
00:11:19
Speaker
it's it's It's not a major hassle for us to do this, so why not do it? It's yeah the right thing to do. Hey, might burn a bridge with some some folks, but yeah i don't think i can we can really worry about that.
Gaming Preferences & Personal Experiences
00:11:34
Speaker
And that that's just it. if if if ah If the people responsible for... yeah i I was... All right. I was really proud when um they reached out and offered ah to start...
00:11:50
Speaker
putting us on their advanced reader list. Like, uh, it, it, it's, it's a small thing. You know, you get to read the book ahead of time and if you talk about it and that kind of thing. Um, but it, it made me feel like there's a, it, it gives a level of legitimacy, uh, to what we're doing here, what we've been doing here for years. And so it felt really good to have that opportunity. And, and, uh, so I hope that,
00:12:15
Speaker
this isn't a burning bridge, but at the same time, if it is, that's so not worth it. Like, yeah, it's not, it's not worth if I really want to, I'll pay for those books. If I really gave a shit, they're $14 or something like that. I'll, I'll, write I'll, I'll buy the book. If I, if I really gave that big of a damn, uh, uh,
00:12:34
Speaker
But, you know, so yeah, of course, there are going to be some mixed feelings with it. but i'm I've already given this too much for me talking a lot about like, this isn't a big deal. I sure have i sure have gone on a lot about much i hate it yeah yeah no i i get it i get it um so that's uh that's that no games for genocide i think that is uh that's a it's a good website it's a good website to go to and uh and sign up sign the pledge um if you dare whoo
00:13:12
Speaker
All right, let's let's ah go ahead and put the games in. Actually, no, there is no book, so there's no body. So I know guess I just have to say, ah Phil, what are you playing?
00:13:28
Speaker
Oh, well, Well, ah first and foremost, my two, I've been, the past few episodes, I think I've been playing my two little kind of comfort games, ah which would be slots and daggers and ball pit ah slots and daggers on my computer and, and, and ball pit on my switch ah when I'm sitting around the living room doing nothing. um And I, I recently beat both of them.
00:13:55
Speaker
um and and both fun games, satisfying. I think Ball Pit in particular. And if yeah honestly, if Slots and Daggers was on Switch, I'd get it for Switch 2. These are the good kinds of games for a portable, for a handheld game.
00:14:10
Speaker
I think the thing that bummed me out about either of them, ah because they're both perfectly... fun games. um The slots and daggers thing annoyed me because at a certain point I was playing, I was like, I have to beat this game, not just because I want to beat the game, but because, and I think I've mentioned this on the show, anyone who's played slots and daggers knows what I'm talking about. The interface, ah the the HUD, if you will, ah you is is like a
00:14:43
Speaker
third person kind of thing. Like you're playing game within the game. Um, when you're playing slots and daggers, you've clearly got this little tablet, uh, and you've got a, there's a drink and a cigarette, a knife and like stuff scattered around the tablet that you're playing the game on.
00:15:00
Speaker
So I was, thick I was like, there's, I wonder what that's about. I wonder if I'm going to get some kind of hint at the end as to what this is about. why that is. and And so at a certain point I was, I was really blowing through this game because I wanted to see if there was some sort of reveal at the end and there wasn't.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah. There wasn't. And maybe there's something to reveal was the credits, right? That's exactly what it was. First, before I go any further, it's a great game. It's a lot of fun. I think it costs four or five bucks. Uh, it's, it's super fun. So anything I'm going to say is not to suggest that you shouldn't play the game. You should. It's fun.
00:15:42
Speaker
Um, you know We've talked about this before where we're at a point in our lives where there are games that like to really get into them. You've got to go into the new game plus kind of thing. ah Like ah Silk Song. you know when you When you beat it, you've actually only beaten 2 and And, and how we've reached a point in our lives where we have less and less of time for that bullshit. So you get to point where you're like, I saw the credits. I'm done.
00:16:11
Speaker
I'm good. yeah That was, that was super fun. Thank you. And so I started to wonder if that was something that was happening with this. The only thing that could suggest to me that it isn't is, uh, I got all the achievements.
00:16:24
Speaker
Um, and that's a small thing, but I think it's enough for, to suggest to me that, um, that this is it. This is, this is, this is, this is what you get. And I, I, my next step is I'm going to be going into the discussion boards and, and looking online to see if anyone's done any investigation or any theories on this. Cause it was driving me bonkers. Uh, at a certain point, I just, I had to figure out, all right, cause it had kind of, um, I don't know why,
00:16:57
Speaker
ah But it it it it, oh gosh, fuck. What is the game that was so big like 10 years ago where you're shooting people, you've got the you've got the ah animal masks on and it's had the really morbid, strange storyline and
00:17:14
Speaker
Do know what I'm saying? What are you talking about? the The game that was really big about 10 years ago and it had like the strange morbid storyline. And it's like you going with animal masks and you're like shooting people. And um there were two of them.
00:17:28
Speaker
Well, it's funny. It's like there's a there's a game that I will be talking about shortly with people with animal masks on. But it's not the game that you're talking about. Hotline Miami.
00:17:39
Speaker
Hotline Miami. Hotline Miami. I don't know why, but there was something about the setup that made me think of Hotline Miami. Because there's like, I'm i'm goingnna i'm going to pull it up and just look at a screenshot of this so I can so i can fully fully ah wrap you up in this. um Wrap me up. Cut ah rattle me up. Now,
00:18:02
Speaker
It cuts you up. cut it's it's You've got a tablet ah and and like the slot machine in front of you. And around you, you're winning coins that come out of the tablet. You've got a lit cigarette ah surrounding a knife, some cards, a set of dice, which are also part of the game, this drink. And there's also lighting effects. There's this kind of dappled sunlight. There's shadows of branches overhead. You are clearly...
00:18:32
Speaker
it makes me think of being in some sort of like Miami slash Island kind of vibe. Sure. so It's weird. it And, and, ah but the game is this strange kind of like dystopian lo-fi slot machine, a fantasy game.
00:18:51
Speaker
ah But the, the atmosphere that surround literally surrounding the game while you're playing it ah has a totally other,
00:19:03
Speaker
uh, banana Republic. I don't know. Kind of vibe to it. And I don't know the clothing store. Uh, I, I have to figure out what this is about. If any of you are listening and and you, you have ideas or you've, you've got reach read about this or something, please let me know.
00:19:19
Speaker
Cause this is so weird. I really enjoyed the shit out of the game. And if it's just a thing that they included, cause that's fun. Fine. That's fine. Uh, But I've got i've got video essayist brain. I haven't made a video essay in in years and years, but that brain never really goes away. ah So I'm like picking it apart in my head and I'm coming up with zilch.
00:19:42
Speaker
Right. So it's driving me nuts. Okay. We'll just go bounce this ball back and forth, Kevin, instead of one of us taking up half the time. What but but do you want to talk about? What do you play?
00:19:54
Speaker
ah So first I want to talk about um is a game called Horses. ah Okay, yes. I want to hear about this. i Yeah, okay. i So for those of you who don't know, um Horses is a game by...
Controversial Games and Themes
00:20:10
Speaker
is it is and ah i'm trying to I'm making sure I have the ah the studio name correctly.
00:20:18
Speaker
ah It is... ah I want to say Santa Rangione.
00:20:25
Speaker
i should have I should have been a good host. Ha ha! and look and made sure I had this on my screen ah beforehand. so Developer Santa Ragione.
00:20:37
Speaker
ah ah Yeah, Santa Ragione. It's their Italian. It's an Italian developer. I think it's only a two person team. Yeah. And ah horses is a surrealistic horror game.
00:20:53
Speaker
um And it is been banned by Steam, Epic, and also Humble, Humble Bandit.
00:21:06
Speaker
No The only places you can buy it are or God. Good old games and itch. You naturally naturally. But yeah, ah ah good old games. ah Actually, a little backstory. all right.
00:21:25
Speaker
There is a full write-up on the Horses developer website about what happened, but I'll do my best to summarize it. They sent in the... I think it's your i think it's ah your cat.
00:21:40
Speaker
I think it's Jesse. Yes, he's... Making sounds. He's attacking some wrapping paper. I'm going to You keep going. I'm goingnna i'm going to ah I'm going to beat him real quick.
00:21:51
Speaker
Blanket on. you got a cozy little blanket there. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's chilly down here. I got to really down i got a cozy up. You know, it's it's really nice. i I quite like it. Basement that Phil records out of. So it's, you know, not not the toastiest location locale. No, no, especially not this time of year. Not this time of year. um so yeah they uh they wrote on their website that basically steam ah requested a build of the game because they were building out the page for the game uh on steam uh santa ragione uh ragione ragione uh i should even look it up how it said um
00:22:37
Speaker
They submitted the game and see an early build of the game. Steam played it and said, no, we're not going to host. We're not going to allow this game on Steam. It violates our content guidelines. That is all they said.
00:22:51
Speaker
That is all Steam said to them. And the developer was like, OK, well, we're not going to release for a few more years.
00:23:02
Speaker
And we think we might have an idea of the objectionable part. um They ended up changing that part regardless over the course of development.
00:23:14
Speaker
And their thought was there's a scene where there's a girl riding on the back of one of these horses. And it was the character was changed from a girl to an adult woman. um So they carry on development.
00:23:29
Speaker
Fast forward two years, they reach out to Steam again, and Steam's like, no, we're not reconsidering our ban of your game. ah And at that point, ah they, Santoragione posts a this FAQ saying, hey, Steam did this. This is probably going to shut us down.
00:23:51
Speaker
ah Because Steam is 80% of the PC gamer user base. ah Sure. Get their stuff from Steam. um And then what happens after that is that good old games is like, we're going to pick up the torch for these guys. They let people pre-purchase it and they put the game on their main page. Yeah.
00:24:20
Speaker
And said, hey, look look at these developers. They're being unfairly maligned and censored by Steam. ah Then shortly before the game drops, Epic decides to ban it as well, citing violations of their community guidelines.
00:24:37
Speaker
And then... After the game drops, it gets banned by Humble. So there was a window, I believe, when you could have bought it on Humble and then they take it they delist it. they They're like, no. um so And nobody's fully explained why it is. and nobody has fully explained why it why it is. Now, ah the two things I'll say is I've played half of the game.
00:25:04
Speaker
ah It's a three-hour game. I've put in about 90 minutes. It is both transgressive and subversive, and it deals in topics such as... ah
00:25:21
Speaker
it's there's There's rape. There is animal abuse. There is ah well regular human abuse. um The old fashioned kind of abuse. Classic. classic ah Abuse original flavor. Assaults of various and myriad ways.
00:25:41
Speaker
ah The game is also unnerving in the way it's presented. it is a mix of ah close up like these these real close up shots. It splices in FMV footage um that ah to great effects for for making the player a little bit skeeved out. Yeah.
00:26:05
Speaker
And ultimately the whole thing is, i don't know. I will, I don't want to say what the whole thing is about Cause I haven't finished it yet. I mean, there's, there's what people have said about it so far.
00:26:16
Speaker
Um, there's a bootlicker on blue sky. I'm not going to say who his name is, um, who was saying, Oh, it is like that valve was right to ban it because it has abuse, gory imagery, depictions of slavery, physical and psychological torture, domestic abuse, sexual assault, suicide. um Yeah.
00:26:38
Speaker
Okay. ah It's it. Sure. TV MA, you know, adults only whatever. You don't ban the game.
00:26:51
Speaker
ah Right. A because there are a number of games on Steam that have all of the above and more.
00:27:02
Speaker
And also are not are not making any commentary on the subject matter. Like, this is a game that's actually making commentary. It's not like... And i and and this is the other thing. I don't even want to get down into the the morality of whether, like... i i think you you might understand where I'm coming from. Even if the game was saying enthusiastically...
00:27:31
Speaker
Yeah, this shit's great. Right. I'm not sure I would even agree with the ban then. yeah so But the fact that it's also not saying that this stuff is great, it's it's not an endorsement of the things happening in the story, um i think make the case for the ban even weaker.
00:27:55
Speaker
Well, they they they that stupid edgelord shitshow hatred ah was hosted on Steam, no issue. And that is very distinctly about killing people for the enjoyment of killing people. It's very much, it is an edgelord school shooter style. Well, not school shooter, but you know what I mean? It's it's yeah it's that kind of a game. It has no commentary to offer. It has nothing to say. It's just literally trying to upset people. And they're kind of fine with that.
00:28:26
Speaker
So, right okay, that doesn't make any sense. Right. Yeah. um That's the thing is is I... um And one of my favorite games of the last few years is Fear and Hunger, right?
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. Very super transgressive, you know, super subversive has literally all the the these same things in it. um And yet it's it's it's totally fine on on ah Fear and Hunger. or It's totally fine on Steam. um There is a Fear and Hunger... i don't want to call it a Fear and Hunger clone. there is a game um There's a game that is like ah
00:29:17
Speaker
ah Fear and Hunger, but it's not. That is basically... I don't even know it's still listed on Steam, but for a while it was on Steam where it was like you had you could buy the game on Steam, but the game that you bought on Steam wasn't the real game. like You bought the game through Steam and that gave you access to ah a file elsewhere that you would then use to download the rest of the game, which had all of these things like...
00:29:50
Speaker
and it was more of like an enthusiastic endorsement of a lot of the things that we're talking about. Right, right. But it was on Steam and literally they were using ways to get around Steam's filters. And that game kept showing up on my suggested list because it's like, it's game like games you played, Fear and Hunger. we Like, OK, just because it's a fucked up RPG maker game doesn't make it the same level. You know what I mean? Right. um To bring it back to horses. So I played ah half half of it.
00:30:22
Speaker
And it's a first person game. And yeah the mechanics are very simple. You're just like walking around this horse farm and doing tasks. Now, it's not a horse farm.
00:30:37
Speaker
They are people. uh in you you figure out as you're going that the society that that you are in um people who are deviants uh are made to become animals and the horse farm is just it has a bunch of people on it who are ah in these horse masks right and they're they're forced and drugs to behave like horses uh if
00:31:08
Speaker
Now, I didn't like this book. I didn't like this one book as much, but I know you really liked it, Phil. It really reminds me of Tender is the Flesh. Yeah. Yeah. Where yeah humans are used as like kind of livestock, um so to speak.
00:31:28
Speaker
right So um that's kind of that's the basic basic elements of the game. And it's it's at the point that I'm at, you're starting to zoom out a little bit to, oh, there's some really fucked up stuff going on in the society that this game, the the world that is this game is set in.
00:31:50
Speaker
And now we're getting to the deep cut commentary of what this game is about. italics um right so ah yeah i recommend people at least watch a playthrough ah but if you're if you do if you have five extra dollars laying around but it's not a game that you would ever play ah maybe throw it to the developer for just as a as a show of solidarity to be like
00:32:24
Speaker
you know, I'm sorry you got fucked over by by steam. Um, I know it's funny is like steam was riding high with like really big, good press after the release of their, you know, the stuff that they're doing with the steam machine next year and all that stuff. And then this comes out and it's like, Oh, steam is monopolizes the, the PC gaming industry pretty much. Um,
00:32:48
Speaker
um so Well, I mean, the one good thing you could say for it is that, you know, it it's definitely got some Streisand effect. ah Definitely Streisand. I wouldn't probably wouldn't have heard of the game if this didn't happen.
00:33:01
Speaker
I only heard of it because of the controversy. Yeah. um It sounds like something I would enjoy. ah Yeah. But it's just another example of the portrayal of something is not an endorsement of it. ah It's something you deal with in horror and satire and just entertainment in general.
00:33:21
Speaker
Right. And it's a real shame. It sounds, it does. I was thinking also tenders to flesh. It's got equus elements, obviously. yeah um there's, I, I dig that kind of thing. I, yeah it could, it sounds like it would leave a real pit in my stomach and I do intend on yeah playing it at some point. Uh, uh, but that doesn't mean i don't, ah here's the thing. I don't love the portrayal of, of sexual assault in entertainment in particular. Sure. I'm, I'm, I'm not left.
00:33:54
Speaker
Uh, there's, there's one episode of, uh, of, um, ah The Sopranos in particular, that that has a a very upsetting ah scene of sexual assault that it bothers me. i I get intrusive thoughts every now and then about it. Yeah. ah yeah and And I hate that kind of shit. I also, now that I'm a father, especially, ah really find it Bush League to do the child endangerment thing, ah depending on how it's done.
00:34:24
Speaker
Uh, now, as you pointed out though, that's the thing though. I don't say it should be banned or removed. And I, and I don't even suggest that I shouldn't, uh, attempt to consume it. If, if I'm, if I'm intrigued or something like that, it's, it's,
00:34:42
Speaker
It's just more of the same nonsense we've been dealing with for fucking decades. Yeah. it's It's a shame. It's a shame. But but the the good thing about that is that it it may have given this thing more legs than it would have otherwise. So this might be a blessing in disguise for them. it's It's... ah What's the... I hear this phrase all the time. Comparison is the thief thief of joy. Sure.
00:35:11
Speaker
And there is it's a three hour horror, surreal horror game that is ah it makes you think like, oh, it's this year's mouthwashing.
00:35:22
Speaker
um I'm going to tell you. Yeah. Yeah. And it's another game that had a lot of, who um you know, forced cannibalism. um Yeah. Self cannibalism.
00:35:36
Speaker
um Jesus Christ. ah But mouthwashing also very ah very get a lot of fucked up imagery. Yeah. But i wouldn't I wouldn't compare the two ah so far. I mean, I'm halfway through Horses, whereas Horses is really, ah really fascinating in terms of like stylized gameplay and all that.
00:36:03
Speaker
ah To me, and maybe Horses will change my mind by the end. ah To me, mouthwashing is still better game ah just like the better It's tremendous.
00:36:14
Speaker
So if you're going into it thinking it's this year's mouthwashing, don't necessarily have that expectation. It is, but it is a three hour surreal horror game, which is, based which is what mouthwashing. Right, right. It's, it's one of those things that we, we have a tendency to go real hard the other way with something like this happens. This, I haven't played it. I haven't seen it. I, I, I barely know anything about it. Um,
00:36:43
Speaker
But this ban and ah the fucked up-edness of what's going on here with this indie studio does not mean that they've made a masterpiece. You know, it doesn't it doesn't mean that this game is above reproach and we don't need to treat it that way either. It just deserves its fair shot.
00:37:01
Speaker
ah and And that's what obviously it's it's yeah not, it wasn't getting. So that's, I mean, it intrigues me more. Yeah. yeah so gi if you can if you're intrigued by it give it the fair shot that it should have gotten in the first place ah Yeah, whatever. ah we'll We'll see how I feel about it the end. But my critical perception of it is ah irrelevant in the discussion of of the fact that they
Recent Games & Mechanics Exploration
00:37:35
Speaker
got hosed. Yeah.
00:37:37
Speaker
yeah So back to you, Phil. Oh, shit. i remember um i have played a lot i've been i've got my my i'm back on my demo bullshit back on demo bullshit back on the demo bullshit and uh i think the demo i'll talk about another one but i think the demo that really really uh got up in my head and i really enjoyed was a game called tabletop game shop simulator ah And it is it is a essential it's it's the same simulator game you've seen where you run a store or something like that. oh is is it's It's literally trading card game simulator with different assets, it looks like. But it's it's it's it's basically, yeah, but you're running like a Warhammer store. Yeah. And I don't know about, ah it but it does have certain unique elements to it um that make it stand out a little bit.
00:38:41
Speaker
But really, because i I play these simulator games. I want to like these games. I want one to be good. I want one to be good. And, and I haven't done it. and this one, I, I think just the cycle is very satisfying. It's very simple. It's straightforward, but it's still fun.
00:39:00
Speaker
Um, and yeah, you're basically opening a Warhammer store. And as your store increases in level, you can expand it. You can get new expansions for the game. You can get better tables to play the game at, um,
00:39:15
Speaker
it's It's the same cycle you've seen 100 times. It's just Warhammer. It's not Warhammer, but you know what i mean? ah it's It's a Warhammer-style game. And one of the things that I find pretty interesting about it is you can you buy your shit and you mark it up and sell it. um And this goes everything from...
00:39:38
Speaker
packs of the figures to rule books to dice to merchandise and novelizations and shit uh i got a real kick out of that when i was ah i was able to buy a box of books in this game world like fiction books to sell a long set i got a real kick out of that i loved that did you buy it you bought the horace heresy yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's that, well, that's what it is. It's, it's, yeah it's that it's, and it's wonderful. And I, and I, I got a kick out of that.
00:40:06
Speaker
Um, but you can, cause the, game the, the thing about this particular game is that it's random, uh, figures in boxes, uh, as opposed to just buying the figures you want for your army. So there's a randomization element to it and you can open up these boxes and Excuse me.
00:40:27
Speaker
Right. And you can collect the pieces and slowly accumulate the right pieces to put together figures ah for this thing. And then you can paint them. There's a mini game for painting them. ah So that you would be painting miniatures in a video game.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yes. While nearby your miniatures are. Look at me angrily. Look at angrily. Your death core of Krieg. Yeah. Now, here's the thing. What's interesting about that is there was a game that came out last year, I think, that I tried that I just couldn't get into called Model Builder.
00:41:06
Speaker
And it was this and it was it was a miniature slash model building painting simulator. And I saw it and I recognized how much fun it could be and how interesting and in depth you could make it.
00:41:21
Speaker
um But it really was, a that one really did make me think like, I actually should be painting ah some Tyranids right now. I could be actually doing this because it was very much imitating the whole thing. Right. whole experience Whereas this,
00:41:38
Speaker
you have ah you can you can get different levels of paint station. Like you start out with a shitty little paint station and you can slowly emulate like nicer stations. And the nicer of a station you get, um the easier the minigame is. And it's a minigame. that's It's a click on the certain part of the screen sure kind of mini game. So it doesn't take long.
00:42:00
Speaker
And the quality of it depends on how you do with this kind of unrelated mini game. And then you can put it on display and people can buy that. And for some reason, the the painting of a, of a used mini suddenly increases its value, which is not how it works in real life, yeah but this is a game and that's fun. Um, um,
00:42:22
Speaker
i I think I'm done with it. I think sure that's the problem. ah i The demo was super fun. I don't know if I'm going to buy it. Yeah. um but But it's probably the furthest I've ever gotten in one of these simulator games. Okay. In terms of actually enjoying it and finding it to be a unique experience.
00:42:47
Speaker
um So that's got a lot going for it right there. ah And real quick, I'm going to talk about the other demo I did ah for a game called Pluto.
00:42:59
Speaker
yeah This is an interesting one. this is scott It's like a dungeon crawler ah with a really strange um surreal horror kind of vibe to it.
00:43:11
Speaker
love Yeah, yeah. The conceit of the game is that you're a wizard, hold And you hold out your fingers, and each finger you assign different glyphs and runes and that sort of thing each turn.
00:43:28
Speaker
And you use your fingers in certain patterns and combine them with other runes, other fingers that have different glyphs, to cast...
00:43:40
Speaker
spells ah ah to to attack or defend yourself all that stuff and as you fight ah in the game you can have your fingers taken out of commission they can be chopped off oh ge that kind of yeah yeah and it's and that's the whole spiel and it's ah it's like I said it's a dungeon crawler it's got a really creepy yeah looking at the art style it's like yeah <unk> yeah it's an unnerving art style It is. It is. And ah and I found it. i And that was the thing. If it was just the art style, I probably could super get into this because i I fucking love what they've created here, the look of it and everything. Yeah. I think the gameplay, I think I'm too stupid for the gameplay. I...
00:44:28
Speaker
I don't think that's for me. My ADHD addled brain, it's a deck builder, but with fingers. You know what i mean? Like your fingers are yo deck are your land or your yeah whatever.
00:44:41
Speaker
And yeah learn new spells and stuff. And it's about finding the synergies and finding... Sure, sure. And there are a lot of games like that, that if I play them enough, I will pick it up and write and and be fine.
00:44:55
Speaker
This was not one of them for me. This was... ah it's yeah very good complex. Someone's going love the shit out of this game, but it wasn't me. Right.
00:45:07
Speaker
it's It's not you, and that's fine. No, you know and that's fine. It has to be. yeah So I do highly recommend anyone listening to try the demo out to see if it's something for you. And just to get a good look at the the at the creatures you're fighting. some It's, o it's it's yeah like you said, unsettling. It's very unsettling.
00:45:27
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. ah So what what else are you playing, Kevin? ah The other thing that I have been playing is ah Kingdom Come Deliverance 2.
00:45:38
Speaker
so okay. Yeah. So this is... i hate i pass i took a pass on it when it first came out. was like, oh, whatever.
00:45:49
Speaker
i'm not going to get into this this
First Impressions of New Releases
00:45:52
Speaker
bullshit. um And then, you know, it's nominated at game the for for Game of the Year at the Game Awards. Now, let me be clear. The Game Awards are dumb.
00:46:04
Speaker
I mean, it is... it is a lot of peers actually did a good video on the game awards recently about how it is like the least rigorous voting, ah that there is for like a game show. Like you there's, there's so many other game, uh, game awards, uh, that do a better job, like kind of nailing down the, the,
00:46:30
Speaker
the categories and the specifics and what qualifies and all that. And the game awards are like Jeff sending out postcards. There is a vote. right depending on the category uh so it's like all right well i'm i'm vaguely interested uh so i i get it fired up first two hours it's it's one of those games where it's like the opening segment and the tutorial is so long that it takes you out it takes you through the refund period um and so you're like i'm not feeling it and you come out and you're like fuck
00:47:11
Speaker
I'm already past the refund period. I'm like, all right, well, in for a penny, in for a pound. So I kept playing it. And ah let me be clear. Let me be clear. Let me let me Obama for a second. Let me be clear. um Is the first couple hours in the tutorial...
00:47:31
Speaker
garbage like hu just it not in terms of like gameplay it's just so fucking boring like it's like one of those it's like the characters and the stuff and the stuff you're doing it's just like I don't care i ended up i'm I'm like I'm 30 minutes into the game I'm like fast forwarding through cutscenes I'm like, it's just, it's just never a good sign. It's like writing for writing sake. You know, we have characters to and like, get, just let me play the game. and like, we're doing a stealth section. Like, I'm not going to do stealth, a stealth night from the fourteen hundred or whenever this fucking is set. I'm,
00:48:12
Speaker
I'm going to be, I'm going to probably do what I do for every game and put points into speech and try to talk my way through things. Absolutely. So anyway, you get through all that bullshit.
00:48:24
Speaker
You get into the actual game. Um, and, uh, and like, Oh, Oh, okay. If we had just skipped the first three hours, I would be really happy with the game. Like, if it had just, like, in media resed right into, like, you're at a point where you're you're locked up in ah the pillory and people are throwing tomatoes at you. Like, start the game here.
00:48:51
Speaker
Start the game right here and we'll get the backstory of why we're we're here with context. I didn't need the bullshit. Right. Leading up to this. Right.
00:49:04
Speaker
So um and I know there's there maybe there's somebody listening who's a fan him. They're like, no, you needed the context of the guy and like, Hey, I straw man you with a silly voice. Your opinion is valid.
00:49:17
Speaker
I'm going do about it, fucker. What are you going to do about it? um But yeah, the thing I thought was kind of interesting is, yeah, it's a role playing game. No, you don't get to customize your character. You are playing a specific dude. This guy has a name.
00:49:34
Speaker
He came from the first game. It's like, it's more like the Witcher in that it's an RPG, but you're not, you don't get to change Geralt. This is like, you're this guy. His name is Henry.
00:49:47
Speaker
He has a backstory that is this, you know, um but within the boundaries of the game, you can kind of play the role how you see fit. um And you can build out your character in different ways. You can have him be a swordsman, heavy weapons. Archer ah or like more like an academic type ah where most he's going to try to talk his way through things. And um that's something I actually started really appreciating about the game is that.
00:50:20
Speaker
Um, combat is because it's when medieval Renaissance, what the fuck ever, who cares? um you know, you're, you're fighting with long swords and armor and heater shields and all that.
00:50:34
Speaker
Uh, the combat is like, Oh, they you could just like fucking die pretty quickly. If you're not careful, it's, it really is.
00:50:46
Speaker
You shouldn't be fighting. the game you know it's like right you probably shouldn't you should try to avoid fighting uh if you see a couple people if you see a guy being stuck up on the road and there's more bandits if there's like three bandits to one guy and you come across this happening maybe just let the guy die yeah Maybe it's, it's don't get involved.
00:51:12
Speaker
This is, this is not your circus. Um, exactly. Um, so that's something I've kind of appreciated about the game. And he's like, Oh, that sucks for that guy.
00:51:24
Speaker
Um, you can't just murder hobo your way through it. Um, which is pretty fascinating. The, uh, it, so yeah, it's got the, um,
00:51:38
Speaker
you know, you're the points into like how people view you ah on a really granular granular level. um There's systems on systems on systems for like ah alchemy and ah and all this stuff, but there's no there's no magic. it's it's it is a It is not a fantasy game. it's not Yeah, it's medieval.
00:52:06
Speaker
it's medieval. It's, it's, it's an RPG set in the medieval times. Uh, and, but you're, you don't have a big old chicken drumstick and you're not in the crowd. You are, ah you are in medieval times and you're trying to basically find,
00:52:28
Speaker
Your liege lord or whoever the hell he is, ah who basically dumps you as his best friend after you two get pilloried, after you two ah get lose all of your other men to some bandits. And while you were naked, walking through the swamp to spy on some women bathing.
00:52:53
Speaker
That's the first three hours. Oh boy. Okay. And after all that, the liege lord guy is like, I'm a lord. I should be treated better than this. And you're like, dude, we have no proof of identity identification.
00:53:07
Speaker
The letter that we had with your seal is missing all that stuff. And he's like, ah, you're no longer my best friend. And he stomps off. Um, So you're the the so far the mission of the game is like find him ah and try to find a way into some royal wedding that's happening soon so you can complete the quest that you were there sent there to begin with, which is li literally just to give a like ah ah an alliance letter to another.
00:53:37
Speaker
to like a baron from a king. Like that's, right that's the reason you were there. It's like, it's the most, you're the mailman. Yeah. You're the mailman. And you go to the, of the castle where the guy is that you're supposed to give him the letter and they don't let you in because you don't have the letter and you don't have the seal and you're dressed like hobos. And and because, and cause, and you're all muddy. And it's, it's, I mean, it's kind of funny. i just They just really could have that made that whole first section like 30 minutes, like tighten it up.
00:54:11
Speaker
Right. So anyway, if they want you to know how clever they are with all this shit, it's, it's such a pain. right now I'm trying to find my dog, ah Mutt.
00:54:23
Speaker
He's gone missing. So, you know, I'll get there. i I've been, I've been on and off interested in, in, in this. ah So I'm glad to hear you're having ultimately ah a fairly positive experience. Yeah. I'm going have to give it a try at some point.
00:54:42
Speaker
it's worth it at some point i would wait till it gets it goes on sale you know sure sure but it's what's really funny is it's you know runs on it's the cry engine um and it's because the publisher is deep silver and i think they a lot of their games are are cry engines so because they're they publish like dead islands and metro exodus and stuff like that um But yeah, it's it ah it runs really well.
00:55:15
Speaker
like I didn't have to fuck around with it to make it run, ah which is another like point in its favor. like There's been a few games this year where it's just like the the I had to fuck around so much to get it to to work right. ah But this... I mean, the other thing is like it's been...
00:55:35
Speaker
it came out earlier in the year. It's been patched to hell already. So i don't know what it was like when it was first out. Um, but yeah, so kingdom come deliverance deuce, uh, is what I'm playing. You got, you got anything else on your list or, uh, only, only that I have picked up, uh, uh, uh, what is it called?
00:55:57
Speaker
Hold on. Close this fucking thing. Um, I picked up Look Outside again. no okay. Fantastic. I kind of... It's one of those... it's it's it At no point did I dislike Look Outside. And that's still the case as I'm playing it now. It's just... it I think i I didn't realize what I was getting into with the game in terms sure of...
00:56:20
Speaker
how big this thing would be and how much of a strategy would be required to think about how am I going to use my time and everything that. And, and I wasn't ready for it in that sense. ah So I, I got kind of frustrated at a certain point, not because I wasn't enjoying the game per se, but because I just didn't know if I was, I didn't know if I was getting anywhere. Yeah.
00:56:43
Speaker
Um, and, uh, and now I'm, I'm, I'm, I started over and I'm, I'm giving myself another go with it. Yeah. And, uh, it's a good fucking game. Like that's just, and Hey, version two is out. They, the developer added a bunch of shit to the game since I've last played it. I mean, I played it earlier in the year and like played it, beat it. And I should come back and play it again because I know like he's added more endings, just like yeah content.
00:57:14
Speaker
Content has been added. It's it's. And there's already so much ah tip content. crazy. Yeah. it's crazy Yeah.
00:57:25
Speaker
Yeah. It's an impressive game.
Phil's Return to 'Look Outside' & Podcast Conclusion
00:57:27
Speaker
It really is. those of you unaware, Look Outside is the basically the love child of Undertale and Fear and Hunger. ah Yeah.
00:57:36
Speaker
It's got the the grotesqueness of Fear and Hunger with the ah power of friendship of Undertale. Yeah. So...
00:57:47
Speaker
Ceaselessly creepy. Uh, uh, if, if, if you're, I'll tell you what I, the, the, the, the day I just finished, I'll tell you how you guys, how I finished the day. And if and if this sounds like the kind of game, if you're intrigued, then you have to pick this up. Uh, I, uh, rescued a horrifying rat baby.
00:58:10
Speaker
um, I, who follows me around everywhere. And ah then later that same day, I came upon a gaping toothy mouth in a wall ah that demanded that I feed it a baby.
00:58:29
Speaker
And there was no way for me to get out without listening to what it said at a certain point, because it was one of those, you know, constantly scrolling, endless tunnel kind of things. And when I first played this, I gave it the baby. Yeah. i felt like I felt like a fucking monster. Uh, but I, but I did it. And, uh, this time around, I was like, there's gotta be something else I can do. And, uh, and so instead I gave it my left arm.
00:58:58
Speaker
Uh, uh, it ate my left arm, uh, which means I can't use ranged weapons anymore. Uh, so I need to find a, a companion that'll, that'll be good for range weapons. If I want to fill that in, uh,
00:59:11
Speaker
And it's so weird and creepy and dingy and grotesque. the The atmosphere and the content, like just what's this world? You could just drown in this world.
00:59:23
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. I'm amazed at how much it still impresses me picking it up a second time. Yeah. it's It's really great. i yeah It unfolds in a way that's really neat because it just starts out with...
00:59:40
Speaker
Your character is wakes up from from a dream with the compulsion to look outside and you're interrupted by your neighbor who's like, you shouldn't do that.
00:59:54
Speaker
um Yeah. And she's she's just like looking at you through the a hole in the wall. Um, and so, and you're finding all the people, you find people in the hotel, not the hotel, the apartment building that you're living in. Like, yeah okay, these are the people that looked outside. These are the people, there's people that didn't look outside. There's people that glanced outside. You can tell that they're, you know, they're not, they're a little fucked up, um, but they're not totally. And it's like, it's not even necessarily looking outside. It's the light that,
01:00:26
Speaker
coming in from outside that can cause issues. Um, so, and you find out more and more about what is going on outside. Why can't you look outside? is it some love? in horrible little Yeah. You get these weird little hints at to what's going on and, and yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Do you ever make it down to the first floor?
01:00:50
Speaker
Okay. okay There's like a really in fun moment when you get to the lobby. um No, I haven't done that yet. ah But i i really want to I really want to finish this game before the end of the year.
01:01:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And there's like, you can, there's a bunch of different endings. if you're like there's there I didn't get a good ending. Yeah.
01:01:16
Speaker
I beat the game, but I only did like half of the steps required to actually get the right ending. um And then ah there's like there's an ending if you just wait out the clock.
01:01:31
Speaker
Yeah. There's an ending if you look outside. i got that. There's an ending if you look outside. um It's like, ah I forget what it is. It's like, looked outside. It's just the ending or something like that. It's just your guy's eyes being sucked out of his head.
01:01:47
Speaker
It's so fucked. It was the first thing I did when I played this game ah before. And it it's the best way to introduce you to what you're fucking doing. It's like, oh my God, this is a horrifying game. It really is. It's lovely.
01:02:02
Speaker
Horrifying. um But that'll do it tonight for our extended ah what do you play in jam sesh. I feel like this is feel like we've done one at least once a year. We've ended up doing one of these episodes. Yeah.
01:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. ah And we'll be back. ah We're going to be back next week with our next book, which is back to our originally scheduled book, which was, a I believe, Driver. Driver.
01:02:33
Speaker
Yeah. um And then also we'll have the year, the year game of the year episode ah fresh hot and ready Little Caesars hot and ready ah no remember it was it Little Caesars that made you sick yeah yeah but i'm i but i but I'm willing to forgive you've already forgiven them I haven't i haven't eat it and eaten it yet, but I know I'm willing to forgive. It's going to be, it's it's a problem. It's ah it's it's a pillar of the fast food ah diet, you know? so It's just so good and it's so cheap.
01:03:08
Speaker
And hot and ready. And it's hot and ready now. Now. You can go to Little C-C-R-A get a hot and ready pizza. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they really made a comeback. This is an aside. They really did. no I feel like there in there was a long time where it' was like, oh yeah, there's Pizza Hut, Domino's, and Little Caesars. And then Little Caesars kind of like fell off a bit.
01:03:31
Speaker
And you're like, yeah yeah, I guess there's Pizza Hut and Domino's. we're like, oh shit, Little Caesars come back. ah Yeah. but like I literally remember when it happened. I remember when they had the hot now and it's like a $5 pizza.
01:03:45
Speaker
And it's not that it's the best pizza you've ever had, but it's actually pretty good for what you're spending. It's ready and it's $5 and you're... Yeah! So can't get mad about that.
01:03:57
Speaker
Oh, God. ah Yeah. So anyway, thanks, ah everybody, for listening. Follow us on the social medias ah that we still have, which are Blue Sky and Instagram. Jump into our Discord. Go to our Patreon.
01:04:09
Speaker
ah du All that fun stuff. And get ready to get ready for your road test, people, because next week you're getting your driver's license.
01:04:21
Speaker
Woo-woo! Whoop-whoop.