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Episode 80: How Virginia Dare Dress Co. Began
161 Plays5 years ago
Today's guest is Rebekah Murray, founder of Virginia Dare Dress Co. I was really looking forward to this interview because I haven't interviewed a dress designer on the podcast before. And let me tell you, I was not disappointed.
While we generally spend some time hearing about our guests' entrepreneurial journey, we spend nearly the entire episode about how Virginia Dress Co. came to be. It was fascinating to hear Rebekah's story and about all the different pieces that need to come together in clothing design.
I should also mention that there is some construction going on at our neighbor's house, so I apologize if you hear a little of that in the background. But otherwise, I hope you enjoy Rebekah's story just as much as I did.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-rebekah-murray-episode-80/
Recommended
Transcript
Empowerment Through Fashion
00:00:05
Speaker
It's almost like you're not taking full advantage of your life if you're just being a girl. And I think there's so much strength in the strengths that men and women have. And I just saw a dress as a symbol as being up and being able to do anything but in a dress. So I decided to focus on dresses and then it was the Virginia Dare Dress Company.
Introduction to Virginia Dare Dress Co.
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:42
Speaker
Today's guest is Rebecca Murray, founder of Virginia Dare Dress Co. I was really looking forward to this interview because I haven't interviewed a dress designer on the podcast before. And let me tell you, I was not disappointed. While we generally spend some time hearing about our guest entrepreneurial journey, we spend nearly the entire episode listening to how Virginia Dare Dress Co. came to be. It was fascinating to hear Rebecca's story and about all the different pieces that have to come together in clothing design.
00:01:10
Speaker
I should also mention that there's some construction going on at our neighbor's house, so I apologize if you hear a little bit of that in the background. But otherwise, I think or I hope that you enjoy Rebecca's story just as much as I did.
00:01:23
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at daveyandchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And I want to hear from you. Let me know what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands of Book podcast as we move forward.
Seeking Audience Feedback
00:01:32
Speaker
To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davey and Christa Facebook page and send us a message or send us a message on Instagram at daveyandchrista. Now onto the episode.
Role and Responsibilities at Virginia Dare Dress Co.
00:01:48
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of the brands that book show. I'm here with a founder of the Virginia dare dress company, Rebecca Murray and Rebecca, I think you are the very first clothing dress maker. Yeah, I don't know what's the proper title here dress designer, dress designer. I'm not the one physically like myself hand sewing each garment, but I do everything from picking the fabric and the shape and you know, the fit all the way through. So designer, founder,
00:02:17
Speaker
that would be probably most appropriate. Yeah, awesome. I'm excited to dig in because I think with a business like yours, there's so many different facets to it that we don't typically talk about on the podcast, since we're talking mostly on the podcast about service-based businesses like photographers, planners, et cetera, so designers.
Photographic Background
00:02:37
Speaker
So I'm excited to dive into what all goes into building a clothing company or a dress company before we do that, though.
00:02:44
Speaker
We need to get to know you a little bit more so tell us where you start i know your background in photography and it's funny i feel like i have so many guests on here who have a background even if there what they're not doing now is photography their background is there you know that was our background was we started wedding photography business before we started dating krista and you so prevalent i wonder why that is.
00:03:05
Speaker
That's a really good point. I like to say either being a photographer or an accountant before launching any other company is going to be the biggest help to your business because
00:03:16
Speaker
either finance or imagery are going to be such a big cornerstone of building any kind of company. So I think it ends up being such a huge help to have that skill, to have the equipment. Typically, photographers know lots of other photographers, so then they have their help in getting started. But especially with anything that's going to be really visual or through social media, I think just having a strong image background
00:03:39
Speaker
plays a big role, but I've also heard that it also makes people have more aesthetic-driven businesses once they already have that background in crafting imagery and understanding beautiful things in composition. So maybe it's just a similar path that creatives are drawn to because it's a practical way to be creative and then it can, in both of our cases, easily tangent off into something else.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I definitely think that's true and so interesting.
Father's Influence and Photography
00:04:07
Speaker
We get inquiries from all sorts of businesses. Recently, we got one from a landscape company. We've done websites for home builders, interior designers, even though that's not too far off the beaten track as far as like the typical people that we work with. But I think they do. They look at a lot of these photography websites that we put together that are very image centric. And they're like, you know,
00:04:25
Speaker
the people in my industry you know the people that are typically designing landscapers websites look very different you know people who typically designing doctors websites look very different so it's always fun to work on a project for somebody like that but anyways enough about that talking about your background so photography business came first right or did it start even before that.
00:04:44
Speaker
I mean, I was just definitely one of those really creative people kind of all my life. I grew up loving to just be creative in any way. I just like to, even early on, I remember having this like distinct thought of like, in my life, I like to like make things pretty and like meet people. And that was kind of always like the two things that I was just like, this is what I know that I like and I want to always do. What kind of photography was definitely the first thing for me though. And that really came through my dad. He had been a photographer
00:05:13
Speaker
back like even in the 60s working in New York and he's a really good storyteller. So I just always grew up like with these kind of really glamorous sounding stories of what photography was like like back in that heyday and it just seemed like photography opened these like you know peeled back this curtain open this door into this different kind of world and the kind of work that you would get to do with it and I kind of wanted to become like a photojournalist or like be a war photographer or something that I would not have been good at but I just had this like this
00:05:42
Speaker
longing to get to work in a field where I could really create something and create it with people. So it was really through my dad. And then this all started back when I was in high school. So this was probably about 15 plus years ago. He got back into photography just as a side job, but it was like just when digital was like on the scene. I remember we went to a camera store and like saw the very first Canon Rebel. And it was like, that is what we were saving up for. It was like probably like two megapixels, but it was like
00:06:10
Speaker
this whole new thing and that got me really excited. So he decided to like reinvest and go with photography partly for his own work but partly he thought it was something we could do together and it could be maybe an open door for me since I did have a love for just creative work. I do remember specifically telling myself I would never be a wedding photographer because that just sounded like a terrible idea. I grew up kind of like a little bit more of a tomboy. I only had brothers and I was like
00:06:34
Speaker
brides being crazy and like this is just not gonna be a good fit so like anything but but you know famous last words so like all through high school I just started doing photo shoots for friends and then you know as it goes a friend of a friend and then
00:06:46
Speaker
a few friends asked me to shoot their wedding. And I was probably like 19, was just kind of like up for anything. And then around the same time, I also ended up getting a job working for a local wedding photographer. She still did a lot of like old school studio work. I needed someone to help her like in the transition from film to digital, which is so funny, because so many photographers are now switching from digital. But that's what we did.
00:07:11
Speaker
It's funny to see, but it was a really exciting time and I didn't think I would do photography for my work.
Mentorship in Wedding Photography
00:07:17
Speaker
I started going to college for graphic design and was just kind of like doing a little of everything at the time with photography and design because I thought design would be a lot more practical way to like not have to shoot weddings.
00:07:28
Speaker
make a living but then i ended up getting to do some weddings and i just really loved it and it wasn't anything like what i expected partly because just the people i worked with for friends who were like up for having fun and weren't the kind of people i kind of feared in my mind so that was i mean probably 14 years ago now and i started working
00:07:48
Speaker
for this wonderful woman who was a really just incredible mentor. It was kind of like an apprenticeship. I mean, I had no idea about really anything, but I had good equipment for my dad. I think it was like the D2X at the time. So like we got like really good gear and I was able to shoot with her for years, manage all the backend computer studio editing work, which really taught me a lot about editing and speed and just managing a business. And then also doing my own friend's weddings at the time and then being in school. And eventually it just seemed like, well, college is not
00:08:18
Speaker
like not needed so I didn't finish school I just focused on working I really love to work wasn't super enthused about being in school sure and that was really helpful because it gave me a really nice head start to like go full-time into a photography business I guess I was like 20 or so when it was like
00:08:35
Speaker
I'm just like bubbling up as like what digital could be like I remember when Lightroom came out and it was like oh I no longer have to edit each image by hand and I was like young and just like had so much energy which is just I feel so old saying that but like it was just an exciting time to kind of dive in and then I got to start doing some travel weddings which really opened like
00:08:55
Speaker
all the doors that I'd hoped for. I'm just getting to do some travel work for destination weddings or for meeting clients who live in other parts of the world even. That just was a really special experience because it just let me travel in a way that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. The more you travel and get to share photos of
00:09:14
Speaker
fun adventures, the more people are likely to hire you to do a similar thing. So that was kind of what the domino effect of like a really fun thing. And I got to shoot weddings around the world even, and then made good friendships with those people who I could then just go and visit for fun, which played a big role in work later on. So that was like, I don't know, through my mid twenties and was just really like all I focused on. I just threw myself into it and it was just like really special work that
00:09:43
Speaker
I'll always be so thankful to have gotten to do. Yeah, I mean, a few things. One, such a great position that you were in in terms of having some sort of mentor or, you know, I mean, especially at that age, just, and you know, when you're in your early 20s, it's just a different ballgame, right? Like, you don't just naturally don't have as much responsibility. And there's not, maybe there's not as much weight to the decision of like,
00:10:07
Speaker
you know, oh, should I go full time with this if you had waited maybe until three years after you graduated school and had already gotten maybe a more traditional nine to five, right? So I think you're right. It is just such a special time and then a time where you can just kind of go after things like that. We have a couple of friends who decided to forgo college and just start their businesses and it's been it ended up being a great decision that they've made, you know, and
00:10:29
Speaker
Krista and I, I mean, we're grateful for our college experience and our degrees and everything. But we graduated with a bunch of student debt, you know, Krista, I mean, however, she had a degree in design. So of course, she still uses that me on the other hand, don't use either of my two degrees, which were expensive. But anyways, I guess college or no college, that's a conversation for another day. And I think that also really has to depend on the kind of person too, because I don't believe that, you know, no experience in life
00:10:56
Speaker
necessarily like ever a wasted thing even if it doesn't directly relate. I mean the personal growth that we go through through anything and especially like higher education like there is so much discipline needed for that that people might not have the chance to really learn otherwise because in college you are forced to go through that where if you're more entrepreneurial you kind of choose how far to push yourself. So I think I'm a big proponent for like
00:11:23
Speaker
not everyone needing to go to college, but I also see a definite purpose for it for the people who should and just how that can really help and grow their lives and just like their capacity more than if they hadn't. So I think it's a really personal decision that should be like thought through, but there's not just like one black and white, like everyone should or everyone shouldn't.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm 100% agree with that, especially like the insight around no experience ever being wasted for sure. So I think all that's great. I'm curious about kind of the transition though into dress design. Where did that? You know, at what point? Yeah, I mean, so at what point did that become a direction? Oh, man, so by accident. I mean, it's so strange to look back and just try to connect the dots. So it really came about through this whole season. So I
00:12:16
Speaker
I mean, I was working a lot and there were some things with wedding photography. I'm sure as you and Krista can relate to that are really hard on your like personal life. You just, you miss a lot of, you know, your own friend's weddings. You work a lot of weekends. I would be very relational with my clients. So it meant like a lot of, you know, extra, you know, dinners or coffee dates or just kind of like really trying. I felt like with photography, it was so important to me to create something that was really unique to them, but I had to really know who they were to try to bring that out. So it just meant a lot of time.
00:12:44
Speaker
spent on an individual basis with each client to try to like understand what made them a little bit different to then bring that to their photos which i think is very noble and was very
00:12:56
Speaker
Just how i work but it's also very draining when you do that with so many clients year after year and then at the same time when i was traveling a lot was like i'm broke even one year especially in my personal i've been like dating someone really seriously we're planning to get married and then kind of just i hit like a wall and we ended up breaking up and i just like went through then
00:13:15
Speaker
really special season of like resetting I think I've been working
Transition from Photography
00:13:18
Speaker
for so long and the funny thing of photography though is it was always something I almost felt like I fell into by accident and I don't believe it was accidental but it wasn't something that I set out to do in fact it was the one thing I'd set out not to do very successfully but whenever I would like think about my work I would be very excited about it but if I ever thought like I'll be doing this in five years it was like oh I
00:13:41
Speaker
I don't know about that. Like it wasn't something I could like project long term and not like I'm a big like life planner. I mean, who knows what's coming in five years, but it wasn't like a kind of work that I could see myself like scaling. I didn't want to go the associate route. I got to teach some workshops. That was awesome. I got published a lot like that's cool. And I think I discovered even like the service versus product
00:14:03
Speaker
creative process is very different with a service. We market ourselves and then if we're chosen, we go and do the work. With a product, we create the work and then we market it. And I think I really struggled with that being out of order for me. I wanted more time to be creative and with a wedding, you show up and you have those nine, 12 hours to be creative and then it's over. And you have that one chance to put all of the development into it. And I really like to think and work through creative projects for longer.
00:14:33
Speaker
So that coupled with a really rough breakup, and I was like, I just need to get away from weddings. And then just like, I'm now like, I think I've been a full time wedding photographer for like seven years. So I was like, I am at the point where I either need to like, find a way to recommit to this and make it like work for me now, or find something almost like go back to the beginning of like, when I was trying to find out what I wanted to do, what would I found if it hadn't been an accidental
00:14:59
Speaker
job interview that turned into like becoming a photographer really by accident. My getting a job for that photographer who mentored me was like to fill in for one day because her shooter couldn't and then it was like I want a job. I was like okay sure like why not. So it was kind of through all this season I took some time the following year to do a good bit of traveling because I had these especially in the UK so England and Scotland I had past wedding clients who I could stay with and I just
00:15:26
Speaker
Travel has always been for me, like if I have the money, I just love to just get away. And since I did so many destination weddings shooting by myself, I was like kind of used to just like getting on a plane, like hopefully having people I can stay with when I go there, but just taking time by myself to just like go and wander just to like
00:15:44
Speaker
wander around, I'll go back to the same places and just like have time to like really reset. I work really hard and a lot like when I'm working. So when I'm not working, I just want to like do nothing. Like this season of life where I was traveling and then just trying to find something that like made me excited about work again. And this I really credit to my, really both my parents. My parents are both creatives and they're both very entrepreneurial. We just, they're always like starting businesses and just
00:16:14
Speaker
kind of always wanting just to give things a try. And they raised us with a sense of just find what you're interested in. My parents, they homeschooled us. I was homeschooled the whole way through, which was kind of not as done back then, I guess. And the whole time, her goal in our education was find what you're interested in for the love. Please find something you really care about, and we will help you chase that. So for a couple years after this season, I was still shooting weddings, which has just been
00:16:44
Speaker
It's an amazing job to get to try out other things on the side because people won't even know you're doing it. I started pursuing other things, like more of an art display route with anthropology, with helping with their art displays in the store. That had been something I'd always wanted to at least try. Then I started to pursue more fashion photography for editorials, for magazines. Then I started doing more and more travel to build a portfolio for more editorial work.
00:17:12
Speaker
And kind of this whole season was kind of like a coming back to life, kind of coming back to like what my dreams had been before, like kind of a rough couple of years.
Fashion as a New Chapter
00:17:21
Speaker
And along the way, just as like a really insignificant little aside, I kept feeling like I'm going to pack for like a trip that was like a really exciting trip, like for something that was like a step closer to a goal. And I felt like a really like tangible, kind of like a very profound time of my life of just rebuilding a lot of things that had been broken.
00:17:42
Speaker
I almost felt like I didn't have the right clothes for this new story my life was telling. And I know that sounds so ridiculous. There was a purpose in this new direction, and I wanted to fully belong to this new chapter of my life. And I think part of it is our identity is, in a way, expressed through what we wear.
00:18:02
Speaker
It was just like a silly little thought of like, I just need to get some dresses made because that will make these trips so much more like fun. And if I could just have something that like really is my personality and is like really easy to wear and I can just like look pretty, but just like kind of get on with my life. I'll just like find someone to make some dresses. And at this time I'm still like kind of struggling on the work front. Cause I had spent a couple of years trying out different jobs while still shooting weddings and just like hadn't found anything that stuck. It was still like,
00:18:31
Speaker
This is cool. Part of this is really cool. It's not quite it, what I can really commit to. And then one night my mom was like, well, what if you started a clothing company? And I was like, well, I could. I was like, well, I had just actually been thinking, funny you say that, I had just been thinking of getting some dresses made. And my dad was like, you know what? I was thinking of that too. And we had a moment pause. And in my mind, I somehow knew, I was like, the rest of my life depends on what I say next. And I was like, yeah, I could.
00:19:02
Speaker
And that night I googled, like, how do you start a fashion business? And I found a course and I watched it. And the next day I googled something else and I watched that. But that first night, like I had never had with photography. I really saw it like crystal clear. I saw like what I could build the business into.
00:19:20
Speaker
because it was very much inspired by like the life I was living of loving like to travel and just like this desire for like a more beautiful life, not just because life's easy, but more like because we need like a beautiful life because life can be really hard. And it was like clothing was like one thing I could hold on to that if I could help other people kind of have even a slight transition in how they go about their day and their life, like that would be such a
00:19:48
Speaker
a special way to help people. And it was more because I needed it, not because I loved fashion or knew anything about fashion. It wasn't from a fashion perspective. It was really more from what I wanted to do with my life. And I felt like not having the right clothing was almost holding me back. So I would never have seen it coming except that idea. But what really gets crazy, though,
Family Legacy in Fashion
00:20:15
Speaker
And how it got really serious was something we had kind of never really paid attention to is that my grandfather had been kind of a legendary fashion designer in New York City. And it had never been really a part of our life because he and my mom had a falling out when I was a kid, so he was never in my life. But a few months into this idea where I'm just starting to Google and read and research, we decide to go to New York for some fabric sourcing, and my mom decides she wants to reconnect with them.
00:20:45
Speaker
And that's when like, it gets crazy. So I mean, there's so many great interesting, I mean, special moments of that story. I mean, I think especially as I listened to it, just your parents role in that and their encouragement to it's not as if you came or I mean, not that you hadn't been thinking about it, but it was like your mom kind of drove this idea, which is cool all the time.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and your dad like jumping on board like yeah, this is you know, this idea I've been thinking about too. And so it's just I think it's just such a special thing. I mean, it's special enough. I think when we come up with ideas and our parents are like, Yeah, that's great. You should chase it. But there's a whole sort of unique aspect to your story about their involvement. So that's pretty incredible. I'd love to hear though a little bit more about how your reconnection with your grandfather kind of impacted the rest of that story. Sure. So
00:21:35
Speaker
I think what's also really important about my parents being so involved is just having those people who know you best, knowing what you can do, even if you don't really know it yourself. So with those first months, I knew I wanted to do it. I knew what it could look like. Maybe that's a photographer mentality. I know what it can look like visually as this idea. Practically, how do you get something made when you have... My only work experience has been photography up to this point.
00:22:04
Speaker
I don't really even sew. It was just not even a part of my life. So I didn't really have anything planned yet for the logistics of getting something made. So we went up to New York for a sourcing trip for my first time to go to the bigger fabric stores there. And I actually had some wedding clients who I would start to tell people about the idea here and there. And I told some wedding clients and they had an apartment in New York and they were going on a long honeymoon trip. So they offered
00:22:29
Speaker
me to get to stay at their place while they were away. So we go and we go to his store. I just been curious about him. So I had gone up in high school once and just stopped by his store and like introduce myself as his granddaughter. And I just didn't really want a relationship with him. But my mom like really wanted to try to like make things right. And I discredit her with a lot of courage in doing this. But at that time when we went on the trip, I had like no plan for
00:22:57
Speaker
how to get things made, like the practical manufacturing part of it, or even just like how to find someone to be like that mentor figure that is so important to have at the beginning. So we ended up going, it was this most movie like moment walking into his store and he looks up at us and sees my mom and he asks her, is there anything I can help you with? And she like stares at him and he just like looks down back at his work and realized he doesn't even recognize her. And we're just standing in his store. The weight of it was so intense and we ended up
00:23:27
Speaker
You know, introducing her, they sat down, they talked. It was like a really like heavy, like words so carefully chosen time. And then it kind of lifted and he's like, okay, well, let's get dinner.
00:23:40
Speaker
And also, like, Rebecca, what are you doing here? And I was like, well, I want to start a clothing company. And here he is surrounded by all of his work as a designer. He was a furrier. So he was an inventor. He had like nine patents for the way that he used materials. He had his own factory. It was like a whole city block in the garment district. He had his own company.
00:24:02
Speaker
We connected like in his he was still working but like in his late eighties or nineties so not working like what it was before but he had been in that industry his whole life. And here i come like you with my big dreams and zero plans and he's like maybe i can help you.
00:24:18
Speaker
And we end up, like that few day trip, going to all these different fabric stores, like I bought a bunch of stuff to start working on the first samples. He had offered to like help with the pattern making, which is like the architect, like blueprint part of it. I ended up not being a good fit, but he had this like ancient Rolodex, like covered in dust and like
00:24:37
Speaker
300 names in it and he opens it and he's like, okay, someone owes me a favor I'll make a phone call for you and he calls this guy who was a few blocks away He had a factory like says that he's sending his granddaughter over and she wants to make dresses That's amazing and so
Learning the Fashion Business
00:24:55
Speaker
what happened? I mean you head over there and this is this the guy that ends up helping you
00:24:59
Speaker
just like we raced down the streets with like our bags of fabric and what was just so important is at this time I don't know if I ever would have like figured out how to find these factories because like they don't have websites they don't want to be found they don't like working with new people but I had this connection so that was like my in so we went to this place we're standing in line and it's this you know crazy work room and everyone's at sewing machines and there's this
00:25:23
Speaker
One Korean guy like yelling or working with people We figure out that's the guy in charge and I see like what he's doing for other people as we're standing in line He's like taking their measurements and looking at sketches. So I'm like, oh I should have like a drawing so I see it online like I draw a dress and then he takes my measurements and just kind of He's so like matter-of-fact about it. He takes the fabric. He does this he does this and he's like, okay come back in two weeks and like then he's gonna start working on the pattern and I
00:25:48
Speaker
That began like that kind of more mentorship development training period for the next year and a half i would i live just outside dc in northern virginia so we're only about a four and a half five hour bus ride away from new york so
00:26:03
Speaker
I started just going up there all the time. I would go up for a fitting, go up for sourcing, go up to check on something, discovered there are things called fabric trade shows, and would just show up there and try to not ask too many bad questions or dumb questions. It just became this new season where
00:26:20
Speaker
the more i worked at it the more i knew i was going to start this company it was still like too much that i didn't know on the design on the manufacturing on the pricing on the business side of it but it was just like this is it was like my one season to like think and write and take lots of buses to new york and i would just,
00:26:39
Speaker
sit like it was such a fun feeling like that same love of like traveling by myself going somewhere new was like sitting on the bus and you know drawing pictures of dresses and figuring out what they were going to be called and trying to remember like you know what rayon was like there are all these like small technical things that were so hard to keep track of and then like the big things
Company Launch and Production
00:26:58
Speaker
of like how do you make money how do you what do you charge but then along the way
00:27:03
Speaker
And my mom would take a lot of these trips with me too because it was like this way in to building a relationship with my grandfather because his store was in the government district. So everything was like within these couple quarter blocks of, you know, the fabric stores, his place, the factory. And it just became this season of, you know, frequent trips up. So I was like telling friends, I'm going to start this company. And then like, as always, when you have a big idea, there's like, Ooh, but like,
00:27:30
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. So long season of not being ready and some really good friends would just like, you know, kind of lean into that and be like, when are you going to be ready? Like, when are you going to do it? When are you going to do it? And finally, probably about two years from when we first had the idea was like the beginning of the year. And I just knew it was like this year or never. Like if I don't really get something going, I need to just like cut it and go because it was, it was just time. Yeah.
00:28:00
Speaker
So.
00:28:01
Speaker
That year, on good advice from another bride who had worked in supply chain before, she really recommended finding someone who was closer by for the development part because it's so iterative. It would be easier to have something where I could go frequently. So I found someone in DC to work with. And so at the beginning of that year, I worked on a new collection and then decided I would launch the company with a Kickstarter later that year. And so I started, I bought a video camera and I started just filming little things of the day-to-day designing and work.
00:28:31
Speaker
And then later that September of that year, I launched a Kickstarter, which was how the company was first presented to the world.
00:28:40
Speaker
Amazing. So as far as like the kind of the mentoring that you got, was that from your grandfather or was that from the guy you connected you with? It was from both. The factory owner, he was Richie, he was helpful in just kind of telling me what I needed to learn. So he's like, you need to learn how to make patterns. You need to be able either to make your own or to understand enough for the design process. So he would, and then I made my first pattern and he sewed that and he was like showing it off to all the sewers there. He was so proud.
00:29:05
Speaker
So he was kind of helpful in like telling me what I needed to get better at, like more directing my education. And then my grandfather, his industry and his like way of doing business was so different from how, you know, it's done today through internet, you know, it's just such a different world. So he, but like his best like advice at the beginning was like, you know, if it doesn't work, it's not going to break you. But he was also kind of a gruff man. He,
00:29:34
Speaker
we kind of clashed on a lot so he wasn't like my feel-good mentor kind of helper but he would always want to know what I'm working on and if anything it really helped me to have like a lot of pushback for when I'm presenting an idea or talking about the aesthetics or the style or my vision to have someone be like well that's terrible
00:29:55
Speaker
And to be like, you can think that I don't and that's fine, but like not kind of letting that change your mind. So I think he really helped in me just, I guess, having more of a backbone. But then over the years, I mean, it was.
00:30:08
Speaker
actually just passed away last year so it was just a really sweet experience to get to be a part of his life especially at the end he got really sick and just getting to help with things and then for him to see it be a success and then just trying to keep reminding him that it's because of his participation. It was kind of a sad end to him because like the fur industry is just
00:30:32
Speaker
not what it was in the heyday and I think he just had some regrets of like not being even the success not lasting as long as it could have or should have and just trying to help kind of pass along like my success is an extension of his work and trying to honor him in that way because it's true I would not I mean I really can't take credit for anything especially because my
00:30:55
Speaker
family has been so influential in making everything possible. So it's been special to kind of share in any successes.
00:31:04
Speaker
having that help for learning. But good for you for I guess because there's a recognition that the way our parents or our grandparents did business is probably different than how we're doing business today, right? I mean, there's this whole online world that just wasn't present when your grandfather started his business. But at the same time, I think people are sometimes too quick to kind of write off like,
00:31:29
Speaker
okay, and just kind of say, oh, well, whatever worked for him wouldn't work for me. So good for you in reading between the lines and open yourself up to, you know, the advice that he was willing to give you, whether it was a little rough around the edges or a little gruff, or, you know, whatever it might be. It's funny, like I was on a sales call the other day for my other business till, and my dad was around while I was on the call. And I got off the call, I was like, ah, you know, that was a
00:31:54
Speaker
Well, I won't share with the word I use but I was like, the call did not go well. Not because of the client but because I just felt like I didn't lead the call well, right? And my dad turned to me and he just, you know, he gave me some advice and I was kind of like taken aback like, wow, I mean, that was really good. That was really good advice. My dad was in sales for, you know, his entire life and I shouldn't have been surprised that, you know, his advice was so insightful but I guess I just figured like, oh,
00:32:20
Speaker
you know, what I do is so different than what he did, but his principles applied. So again, just to say good on you for opening yourself up to that. You know, one of my questions was like, what were some of the biggest challenges in transitioning from wedding photography to clothing design? It feels like a silly question. And I feel like you covered it in just that story was just
00:32:39
Speaker
I mean, just such an interesting way that I'm going to forego that question. But I do want to know how you came up with the business name, Virginia Daredresco. So I'd love to hear a little bit about that. And then I'd also love just on a more practical note, you know, how did you even go about finding the manufacturer closer to you in DC?
Inspiration Behind the Company Name
00:32:58
Speaker
So starting with the name, so another part of the story actually, which is just still so crazy. So my mom kind of brought up this idea a few years ago to actually like start a clothing company. Something else we had also forgotten though, back when I was like in high school, maybe like 15 or 16, like wasn't really like into school, like most creatives, like we love to do what we want to do and hate to do everything else. I mean, that's just like a human nature thing.
00:33:23
Speaker
But they had a love of entrepreneurship and they just they knew that people should just like chase what they're excited about because they'll put more work into it back in high school like 10 years before they had also had the idea for as a school project for me to take a year off school and start a clothing company just to like
00:33:42
Speaker
think through the designing and create a catalog and write stories, not actually creating a tangible product, but to build a business as a project. And they have the idea to call it Virginia Dare. For those who don't know, Virginia Dare is the first English one born in the new country. Her parents were some of the early sellers that came over from England and settled. And as a symbol,
00:34:07
Speaker
There's just like an association with courage and bravery and adventure and they were just themes that seemed very aligned with like life values and then
00:34:22
Speaker
more personally when they brought it up again they still kind of had that they just always loved that name and we live in Virginia and just like the historical aspect of that but then for me also so much of how all this came to be was through frequent trips between like England and the US and even kind of like finding a lot of contentment and restoration and home
00:34:44
Speaker
here I went through a season where I was like really wanting to move to London and you know we kind of go through different seasons of where we just feel like we're not where we are meant to be and that's like a hard transition point to go through and to like to come through of but I felt such a belonging like exactly for where I was where I was living like who I was what I was working at and
00:35:06
Speaker
I really felt like a really special second chance at redoing things I hadn't done well before. And then I just knew that I had a passion for dresses because it was this idea of what you could do in a dress. You can climb, you can go for a hike. You can do anything in a dress, but still it could be feminine. And that's what I felt like was really missing at that time. It's not missing, but it's not as maybe prevalent. Just more of a feminine style that isn't too
00:35:36
Speaker
Dressed up or too prudish or like to something like I just like the idea of like we should all Make the most of our lives and our strengths and I love the idea of like women Being so able to do so much but like as women I think there's you know, there's so much that can be I don't know like it's almost like you're not
00:35:57
Speaker
taking full advantage of your life if you're just being a girl. And I think there's so much strength in the strengths that men and women have. And I just saw a dress as a symbol as being up and being able to do anything but in a dress. So I decided to focus on dresses, and then it was the Virginia Dare Dress Company.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, well I know Chris has one of your dresses and loves it and she will definitely be sharing more about that too as the podcast launches here.
Manufacturing Challenges
00:36:24
Speaker
As far as like moving your operation down from New York to DC, what did that look like? Because I knew you said kind of in the beginning that like these manufacturers don't necessarily want to be found and they probably don't want to be working with
00:36:35
Speaker
People who you know don't really know what they're doing I guess to speak by the time you move your operation I'm guessing that you know that was after what two years or so so you had a firm grasp on what you're doing by then but what so is it easier to find somebody to manufacture your dresses.
00:36:51
Speaker
I would say I had a firm ERG grasp, but not firm yet. I was still needing so much help. So that was still in the development side. And there's actually only one local main company that does this. And I found them through just a lot of Googling. I found another clothing company that was started locally and they referenced who they worked with. So I was able to find it. And the one locally, it's run by a
00:37:15
Speaker
a woman my age and she is like on instagram and she's wonderful to work with but that was just the development side i knew starting out that i had
00:37:25
Speaker
a good base to launch the company to from everyone I'd met through my wedding photography work. But having priced out what I was creating to do production in New York or in DC, I knew from the beginning that would price myself out of my market. So I worked with someone in DC for creating the fit and the styles and the patterns
00:37:46
Speaker
but not for the actual production. I then, after I launched the Kickstarter, I delved into the really crazy Wild West world of overseas manufacturing in Central America. And that's where I did the actual manufacturing once I had, so I did a Kickstarter trying to raise $60,000. I raised the 45,000, which was incredible, but it didn't hit the goal. So I had to do it again. A Kickstarter is like a,
00:38:16
Speaker
needs like a therapy session of its own. But I just knew that for me to like make it a success, it had to be sustainable for like price point wise, but not compromising on quality for like the materials themselves. Because that's the actual fabric used is usually the most expensive part of a garment. And I knew that if I wanted to use higher quality fabrics, I couldn't afford like really expensive manufacturing also and try to keep things under a certain like
00:38:42
Speaker
I mean, they're still expensive, but I just wanted to be more of a luxury item that only a few exclusive people could afford. I wanted to be for all my friends. So during when I was preparing for the Kickstarter launch, I had a hero of a friend, a hero. Her name's Esther, and I knew that Central America would possibly be a good fit because it wasn't as far as Asia, so you could very easily go in person, but it was a lot more affordable than in the US.
00:39:11
Speaker
And I did have a lot of personal ties with people who lived there were like Esther, her father in law was Guatemalan and even kind of in the manufacturing industry and lived in Guatemala City. So she had a couple of trips to go visit family. And when she was there, as I'm still prepping to launch the company, she started visiting factories for me. And if you want, like really, the best journal of the business is like my WhatsApp on my phone. I have like video tours from all these factories.
00:39:38
Speaker
years of designing and pattern making and fit changes, all done over Skype and WhatsApp and texting and Facebook Messenger. It's an amazing time capsule. She helped source factories. I had been emailing factories all over the world. I thought it would be a lot simpler than it was. It's like they don't want to be found. They don't want to work with people like me and for very good reason because
00:40:05
Speaker
It's just a lot of handholding to do, but eventually you found a place that was a good fit. And then the Kickstarter came through where I was pre-selling, you know, dresses and people chose their size, their style. And then I was purchasing fabric that I'd sourced from different trade shows in New York. Some was coming directly from Asia. Some was coming from the States and I was exporting it, learning that whole import export, you know, world of paperwork.
00:40:32
Speaker
And then we went down and finished the development, did like lots of fittings with lots of people. And that's always been a big part of the design process is making a sample dress like a prototypes and then trying it on people and then seeing needs to be fixed and then changing the pattern and then like remaking a new sample and retrying it on and trying to help solve like some kind of normal fit problems that people have with normal clothes. So we got to do that in person, like at the factory and
00:40:58
Speaker
So I worked with that first factory for the first year and a half or so and then the manufacturing world is just hard. Like it is factories can be lovely or they can be like the cause of all of your headaches and I've just kind of had a lot of really big blows on the factory part of this business all along the way and that first factory ended up just kind of
00:41:24
Speaker
failing me in a big way and then I had to move to another one and that one was much better to work with but was a lot more expensive and then they ended up raising their prices even again and early last year I was just getting really tired from so many like intense supply chain difficulties and I decided
00:41:45
Speaker
for better or for worse, to do this from scratch. You can hire middlemen, or you can hire factories that will sort all your fabrics and trims. You can hire middlemen who do all the management for you. You can hire people in between to help take care of some of these battles. But I just really wanted to learn how to do it. I wanted to know what was happening. I didn't want to be dependent on someone else
00:42:11
Speaker
like that my business was in their hands. It just meant that there was so much to learn and I had to learn it fast and learn it as it's happening like as we're at a factory we're figuring out like what we were supposed to have done and we're trying to get it done like that day and like it was so on the job constantly. Thankfully because I was doing it in Guatemala my friend Esther would travel with me both to interpret but just to like really help go to battle with me because it was like
00:42:37
Speaker
It's just you really have to fight for it. It's just not business done as usual. It's a really different world. We like the people we work with, but it's just a really rough industry to get things made with factories. Did you end up keeping your manufacturing in Guatemala?
00:42:55
Speaker
After about two years, I decided to switch early last year and kind of along the way like as personal life does, you know, just like a lot of hard things that come up in like with my family and I was just like getting really tired and I just knew like something had to change like something wasn't working.
00:43:11
Speaker
and i just had spent so much of my time on the kind of manufacturing difficulty side that it was really slow to release new collections and then it was not ideal and i really miss being closer to the process like when things are so far away and then you remove that people are in between like helping you i just wanted to do it more myself i just i love the creative process
00:43:33
Speaker
So, beginning of last year, I decided to find a way to bring manufacturing to the U.S. without compromising the materials I was using and also without raising the prices.
00:43:45
Speaker
and finding something that was close enough that I could get in a car and go on like a day's notice and go to work and not need to fly somewhere and have it be like too logistically difficult. It just felt like the logistics were not letting me win and I needed to simplify in every way possible and that took about nine months last year of just
00:44:07
Speaker
Searching, meeting, visiting, developing, because it's both the factory side and the pattern maker side. So it's like if you're trying to build a house, you need the architect and you need the builder and they have to get along. They have to work the same way. They have to both really care about what you care about. You have to not take their word on how good they are, but go through the process for yourself to know what they're actually capable of and are we on the same page and what our timeline is actually going to look like and just going through that process.
00:44:37
Speaker
has been really special though because it kind of restarted a different way of doing the business and really simplifying it and has let me be so much more involved in every part of it so I don't have to have people like on my behalf like going to visit and check on things like I can go and check on things and that flexibility it was what was so missing like
00:45:03
Speaker
And that matters more than, you know, some cost savings. And in the long run, like, you know, flights to Guatemala, when we went, we would have to like have a bodyguard and like a bulletproof car and like, you know, a driver. And it was so many layers of like difficulty and costs that, you know, it could probably all balance each other out pretty well, where, you know, paying more, but having it be a lot simpler and less involved in the long run is kind of
00:45:30
Speaker
same thing cost-wise. So I was able to do that and then just launch the first collection with that new factory that's not only in the US but it's here in Virginia which just completes like I don't know the perfect Kismet nature of it all. So that released just before Christmas and working now actually just about two hours ago I got another shipment of the new dresses in and working now on you know the next phase and it does seem like maybe I found like home for
00:45:58
Speaker
the business on the manufacturing side more long-term. Yeah, that's amazing. And what a story and what a, I mean, just the amount of pieces that go into producing a physical product and clothing in particular has got my head spinning for sure. So, I mean, it would be really interesting to see kind of that time capsule of WhatsApp messages and Skype messages or whatever.
00:46:20
Speaker
Just to see I mean kids I mean that's just so much to learn in the last couple years and that you've just I think such a broad experience from all that time that you put in taking buses up to New York City and then bringing it back down to DC and then doing some stuff down in Central America and
00:46:36
Speaker
I mean, it's incredible. So, you know, we'll wrap up here. But before I do that, I would love to know just in terms of like marketing to what you found to be maybe your most effective marketing channels, I assume that of all the things that we talked about today, there are a lot of differences between this and photography. But I do wonder if maybe on the marketing level, your experience, you know, as a wedding photographer, maybe plays a little bit or lends itself a little bit more to marketing your product.
00:47:05
Speaker
Great question. And that's been really one of the most, like I tell others who are kind of like going through the same path as I am, like manufacturing something is the hardest thing until you have to then market it. Especially as a photographer, like you're so used to going really deep with like 30 clients a year. You know, maybe 40, but like 40 customers a year. And now you have to go to try to find like 800 a year.
00:47:34
Speaker
even with wedding photography, I think I had it pretty easy on the marketing front, I had some good connections with wedding planners and venues and publications. So I kind of never had to do like the wedding shows, I just like kind of always had enough work. And I never sold a physical product. So once like the Kickstarter was through and the manufacturing was through, and I had like a huge storage unit filled to the bursting with like dresses, and then I fulfilled all the orders and I launched the online store. And then I was like, Oh,
00:48:04
Speaker
Now you have to like learn how to market a product as like a store. And I just hadn't like put nearly as much thought into that part as like launching the business and like, you know, the story and getting to that point. So once I finally had, it was kind of a really big learning curve on that front too, just how to find people, how to bring them into a story, how to learn sales, like how to,
00:48:30
Speaker
both believe in a product and know that it's going to make their life better and then communicate that. So that's been a really big learning curve as well. Thankfully, I tried and I think just what's good advice for every entrepreneur is just like play to your strength. Mine is like I like to make things look
00:48:48
Speaker
beautiful and I like to make friends like I just love to meet people. So I took a very relational approach to it and it's just been a slow build. I didn't put a lot of money like hardly any into like Google AdWords or Facebook ads. I've just really done like word of mouth and then lots of like ideas. So I do a lot with not quite direct mail but like
00:49:10
Speaker
things sent in the mail either as surprises or the people can opt in for where it's just like a beautiful little package of things that tell a story or our little gift or have some of the fabric swatches or give some information about the product and trying to make a personal connection whether in person also through events like shopping events or I'll do like
00:49:31
Speaker
flower picking days or like picnics or like I love like kind of doing different events that kind of unite people with like a common denominator for just an appreciation of beauty and then also really leaning into providing over and above like service to customers trying to really like niche in on the aesthetic of the customer too because I know that like
Marketing Strategy
00:49:54
Speaker
If I have a very specific kind of customer, everyone who sees the company can know which of their friends are a Virginia Dare kind of girl and just trying to help form that identity even for them. Right now, I think it's probably social media wins out a bit, but it's just ahead of word of mouth.
00:50:16
Speaker
you know just referrals. I'd like to get to the point where almost like to gamify the referral process but not like in a normal like give ten dollars get ten dollars kind of way. I would just love to even make that kind of part of a beautiful thing and there's some ideas I'm working on but I just really focus on like really
00:50:34
Speaker
telling a clear story of who our customer is and knowing that they're looking for it and they know others who would agree and feel the same way. So I think, in a way, you know, wedding photography is the biggest help for that because so much of that craft is imagery, is storytelling and is bringing people into something beautiful they can appreciate even if they're not ready to buy. I mean, so many people, I find it's like a year long, like,
00:51:02
Speaker
process of when they first discover and kind of get involved or start you know commenting on Instagram until they actually make a purchase and so I just have to have now having the experience that I do have thankfully and at the beginning I was like panicking of like this is a terrible idea like no one wants to buy stuff and now realizing like people do they're just not always ready and we just have to keep
00:51:22
Speaker
Bringing back to mind like what it is that you can offer them and at the right time Usually it's like if they have a trip coming up if they're doing you know engagement shoot if there's kind of like a special event They'll often like say that like you're saving up for a dress like tied to that event or if they're gonna be losing weight Like it's their gold dress or if they have like something special in their life They kind of equate like they want a dress for that thing so I think it's more about finding more of those people and then when the time is right and
00:51:51
Speaker
to have something beautiful for them to wear and just all along the way just like sharing beauty and bring them into the story and helping learn from them what I can do to make the company better and then being patient to know like when the time is right like they'll know what they want. So having a little bit more time to discover that for myself does give a lot of patience to the marketing now to know that it's a little bit of a slow burn but that's
00:52:17
Speaker
what I've just found like works best for who my customer is and I kind of have to let them dictate how the company goes about the marketing process.
00:52:27
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. And I think that word of mouth is so powerful. And sometimes when we take a product to market, that's a little bit more mass market than, you know, let's say wedding photography, where, like you said, it's very relational, you're diving deep with, you know, 10, 15, 30, 40, maybe 50, like clients yourself, you know, I mean, of course, if you have associate program, it's a different ballgame. But the ones that you work with individually, you know, that's probably the upper limit. But I think even for products that have a
00:52:56
Speaker
kind of a more mass market like word of mouth building relationships is still super valuable. It is I think a slower burn. It builds interest, you know, more like a checking account and less like Bitcoin. But at the same time, you learn so much I think from you know, actually reaching out to people on an individual basis and listening to them and hearing their feedback and
00:53:18
Speaker
you know of course I'm a big fan of some cast a wider net methods you know like obviously one of my companies we run facebook and instagram ads but I do think a lot of what you said I think people should know like the people aren't ready to buy usually when they first learn about you you know typically you're gonna have a certain amount of time that passes before somebody's ready to purchase and so
00:53:39
Speaker
it takes nurturing and it takes time and that's why things like email and mailing addresses and phone numbers and things like that are so important because you can follow up with people and help them along that customer journey so they actually get to become customers.
00:53:54
Speaker
I think we're going to have to have you on like a year from now or two years from now because I'd love to hear just I mean the growth that happens between now and then and especially on the marketing side and the building story I think was just so fascinating. So we'll have to follow along, love to hear more about too just like the different stuff you have going on. So if you're listening, I almost called you Virginia, Rebecca, tell us where people can learn more about you and the Virginia Dare Dress Company.
00:54:23
Speaker
Oh, awesome. Well, let's see. So the website is VirginiaDareDressCo.com. The Instagram is the same. And then my personal account is Rebecca spelled R-E-B-E-K-A-H, RebeccaJMurray.com for my website, and then also on Instagram for my personal account, RebeccaJMurray.
00:54:44
Speaker
Awesome. Well, of course, all of those links are going to be available in the show notes. So check out that to learn a little bit more. And Rebecca, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Oh, thanks so much, Davey. Thanks for tuning into the brand set book show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to Davey and Krista.com.
00:55:17
Speaker
you