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Summer Series 2026 - What are Gen Z really like (Part 1 )?
30 Plays7 hours ago
Episode 142: RNA kicks off 2026 with an interview with Guy Clennett and Nikki Clennett, Ross's two eldest Gen Z children to discover their views about working life as twenty somethings and whether they agree with the most common Gen Z stereotypes.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Summer Series
00:00:07
Speaker
Recruitment News Australia is very proudly brought to you by Wingman Recruitment. We are so lucky to have these guys as our wingman. Our summer series is three interview sessions, a two-part series on Gen Z with some very special guests, half of which you'll hear in this week's question and half in next week's question, followed by a final interview of the leaders of People Recruitment which is a truly inspiring way to start 2026.
00:00:38
Speaker
We hope you enjoy our summer series.
Meet the Guests: Nikki and Guy
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome to Recruitment News Australia special summer series. And this summer series question of the week is, what is Gen Zed really like?
00:00:54
Speaker
And I'm pleased to welcome two special guests to the podcast today. So... I'm going to ask those guests to introduce themselves. So, Nikki, perhaps why don't you start?
00:01:07
Speaker
Hi, I'm Nikki. I'm 24. I'm a qualified pastry chef and I currently work as a kitchen manager in childcare um and I currently live in Ringwood here in Melbourne.
00:01:21
Speaker
Excellent. And Guy. Hi, I'm Guy, 26, son of Ross. I also live in Ringwood and my role is a digital marketing coordinator.
00:01:34
Speaker
Excellent. Nikki didn't mention that she's also my daughter, but we'll just drop that in. So I have ah three children who are all Gen Z and Nikki and Guy are towards the older end of the Gen Z spectrum.
00:01:51
Speaker
Okay, so Nikki, let's go back to
Nikki's Career Journey
00:01:53
Speaker
you. So perhaps briefly describe your journey through education and then the part-time or casual jobs that got you to your current job.
00:02:04
Speaker
um So I graduated high school with pretty high marks and I thought that I would be going into a double degree at Melbourne Uni in art history and curation. So I was pretty set that that would be my path.
00:02:19
Speaker
um But sort of at the start of 2019, which was the year after my graduating year at high school, I decided to take a sort of gap year and work instead. um And I ended up working in a Yarra Valley winery as a trainee chef and also on the floor as an event manager.
00:02:40
Speaker
um i also, through that, decided that I was more interested interested in cooking, which is something that i had kind of had as a hobby my entire life. And I was enrolled to start my patisserie qualification in 2020, but obviously COVID took over everything. i sadly lost my casual job at the Yarra Valley Winery and was unemployed for about six months before i landed a job as a duty manager um at Dan Murphy's and I stayed there for about two years. um I started my certificate three in patisserie at the beginning of 2021. was on and off campus due to lockdowns and that sort of thing um until April 2022 when I finished my qualification.
00:03:31
Speaker
um After I graduated i got a job at a small-scale commercial bakery run by a very, very interesting man, i will say. And just as I sensed the business was about to collapse and or go bankrupt, which it has, um I jumped ship and left without another job lined up. So I was unemployed for about two weeks before I got the job that I currently have, which is working in childcare.
00:04:00
Speaker
Excellent. And just briefly describe what you do on a day-to-day basis in your job. So I run completely end-to-end production in a 96-place childcare centre. So that's planning menus, doing all the food ordering, um doing all the cleaning and, of course, all the cooking. So preparing five meals a day for 96 children plus staff. So everything you can possibly think of that you would do at home when you prepare a meal, I do that except for about 100 people every single day.
00:04:38
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Excellent. All right We'll come back.
Guy's Professional Path
00:04:41
Speaker
to talk a little bit more about that job in a minute. So, Guy, ah take us through your journey that started with education and through to the jobs that have brought you to where you are now.
00:04:54
Speaker
My journey, I would say, is pretty par for the course. Towards the end of high school, I knew I wanted to go to uni. and I was kind umming and ahhing for a little bit about what I wanted to do, but I settled on marketing. So, I studied a Bachelor of Marketing at RMIT. I did like the advanced version where you do an extra year to do like a year of placement, but like essentially you just work for a year. So it's all that experience.
00:05:17
Speaker
um So I started that, did two years and then broke for my year of placement. um Finished that, decided I wasn't quite ready to go back to uni just yet.
00:05:29
Speaker
So went and took a slight detour um and took an admin job with one of my friends kind of doing occupational health medical admin, ah deferred uni for six months, worked full time doing that for six months, decided, okay, I need to go back and finish my degree.
00:05:44
Speaker
only they had a year left, went back, finished, graduated midway through 2022. um And then from there, my post-grad job ah was in transport doing marketing. um It was a pretty brief stint. I barely lasted five months. a Long story short, very, very corporate environment. and i kind of pretty quickly clocked. That's just not for me. um And then so left there, similar to Nikki, without another job lined up.
00:06:13
Speaker
uh was unemployed you know prospecting for work um for about i would say six weeks before i landed at my current role um which is in tech so very very different work environment to where i was before um working in corporate but yeah where i am now um i've been there since late may of 2023 uh so a bit over two and a half years and yeah i i love it and i can't say i'm planning on leaving anytime soon Great. And given you both mentioned it, I will point out that um your alleged recruitment expert father provided the advice that you shouldn't quit a job until you have a job to go to, which neither of you... took any notice of and of course your half-brother took the same lack of notice when I suggested that he find a job before he quit his casual job so clearly what the hell do I know i was I was intending on following your advice um for a bit but yeah it got to got to a bit of a breaking point and I figured you're right but
00:07:17
Speaker
At this point, I would rather be
The Value of Flexibility at Work
00:07:19
Speaker
unemployed. Right. I feel exactly the same in the role that I left without another job lined up. I was like, for my own sanity, I have to leave with my two weeks immediately or I'm just not going to get out here alive.
00:07:34
Speaker
Yes. All right. Well, we'll circle back to that in a minute. So guy perhaps um let's start with you in terms of just describe the parts of your job that you really enjoy and why you enjoy them.
00:07:54
Speaker
Great question. um
00:07:58
Speaker
being Being, like, working in tech, it is kind of what it's cracked up to be, at least the business I'm at, right? So, they it's ah like I guess, first and foremost, it's a fun place to work. It's very flexible.
00:08:10
Speaker
um It's a small team. It's a lean team, like, kind of startup vibes, but, like, i wouldn't call it a startup. very relaxed, um a lot of independence, like pretty much no one gets micromanaged. Everyone's trusted to kind of do their job and do it properly um because it's a small business. There's no way to hide. So if you, I guess, abuse the trust you're given, um that will become apparent very quickly. um Beyond that, though, I would say they break from a lot of very traditional elements of most like corporate white collar jobs, which I really enjoy. So for example, it's a pet friendly office. um People can bring their pets in, mostly dogs. um But if you wanted to, you could bring in, you know, a cat.
00:08:51
Speaker
a ferret a bird what have you um the dress code is very relaxed so it's not a requirement as a guy to wear a collared shirt um or anything like that really I mean obviously within reason right people don't come in in like tracksuits sportswear that kind of thing um but the average fit on a day-to-day basis is like nice jeans you know converse vans that kind of thing and then like a nice plain t-shirt no collar and knit that kind of thing so it's It's work, but it doesn't feel like work as much. I think that's, especially compared to my other roles, you would go into work and it felt like you're at work in in almost all regards. Whereas this, like I'm at work and obviously you know that, but it doesn't feel like work.
00:09:35
Speaker
Sounds to me what I'd describe as more a 21st century workplace, whereas you're Immediate job after graduating sounds more like a 20th century workplace. Yes, yes. And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention flexible work as well.
00:09:49
Speaker
um They're very, very, very flexible. There are people who come in, you know, four or five days a week who live close to the office. and there are people that for whatever reason um will rarely come in mostly parents as you would imagine um but there are some people that seriously come in once a month once every two months obviously that's um fringe like that's not the average person i would say most people are in two to three days a week um but yeah they're very very flexible they understand that people need flexibility for whatever reason regardless of what stage of life you're at, you know whether you have kids and a family or whether you're just younger, you have other commitments, they understand that.
00:10:23
Speaker
um And it's it's it's a given. like It's really not even something that's discussed. like it's It's part of the trust. It's part of the culture. Great. And I mean, clearly it sounds like you enjoy almost all of your job. If you had to pick out one thing that perhaps you don't like as much, what would that be?
00:10:42
Speaker
Geez, I hope no one I work with is listening. Kind of like asking what my biggest weaknesses in an interview. um One thing I don't like, ah to be to be honest, if i had to give you an answer, and I think this is going to show like just how good of a business it is, my one complaint would be the office location only because it's not as close to me as perhaps I would like.
00:11:06
Speaker
But that being said, the location, like where it actually is, I enjoy the location. Like it's ah it's a long drive to get there. But once I'm there, I enjoy it. um But like, that's like jokes aside, that's seriously probably the biggest complaint I could muster up out of everything.
00:11:20
Speaker
And to be clear, if you were doing that drive five days a week, it's probably unlikely you'd be living where you're living or working where you're working. Would that be fair? Correct. Yeah, one of one of the two would have to give. um there would There would just be no reason. Well, not no reason, but I would be hard pressed to stay there if there was no flexibility with work from home and I had to be in five days.
00:11:40
Speaker
Okay, great. All right. So, Nicky, over to you. what What are the things in your current job that you enjoy the most? And if you had to pick one thing that you dislike, what would that
Autonomy in the Workplace
00:11:50
Speaker
be? Um, i kind of recognize that I'm in a pretty unique position because my role has such like a single point sensitivity sensitivity, because I'm the only person that does my role in the center and I'm completely responsible for the role. So, i mean, first of all, I recognize that I have an extremely good manager and she trusts me wholeheartedly. to be responsible for every aspect of my position. So I think having a leader that does not micromanage me whatsoever is not checking in on me all day, every day, someone who trusts me completely,
00:12:31
Speaker
is just incredible. And I'm very grateful for that. Um, I'm also a real control freak. So not having to rely on anyone else and being 100% in control of everything I do all day, every day is just like heaven to me because, you know, I'm not relying on anyone else to do their job as perfectly as so I'm doing my job for us to succeed or for me to succeed. So I really, really love that.
00:12:58
Speaker
Um, I also love, especially in a hospitality role that I don't work nights. I don't work weekends. I don't work public holidays. Um, and considering before this job, I worked in retail and I worked in restaurant hospitality for years and years and years. I've never had this flexibility to spend time with my friends and my family and my loved ones. Cause everyone else I know pretty much works. a nine to five job. So being able to have the same schedule in a hospitality role as the people that I want to spend time with is just incredible.
00:13:35
Speaker
um I love most things about my job. I would say the things that I don't like, though, is that there's zero opportunity for work from home.
00:13:46
Speaker
obviously i need to be at the center to cook for the people at the center every single day. sure so there's just zero opportunity for that in the type of role that I'm in. i also don't love being on my feet all day, every day. The only time that I sit down is for a half an hour lunch break. So I am constantly on my feet and constantly moving, which does get pretty exhausting.
00:14:09
Speaker
um And also if I'm sick or if I go on leave, there's no one to stand in for me. So, you know, I love being a hundred percent in control because it's just me that does the role. But that also means that if I'm not there, if the work doesn't get done. And it's someone who doesn't have my knowledge or doesn't have, I guess, my skill level to do the job, which means when I come back from being sick or being on leave, I'm just picking up the pieces. um of what has been done in my absence. So I find that a bit frustrating, especially because I'm so controlling of my work environment well.
00:14:47
Speaker
And being on your feet, I remember you told me once ah the average number of steps or kilometres every day at work. So remind me what that was? I average about 14,000 to 16,000 steps every single day. um And I don't wear my watch when I do exercise before or after work. So those steps are purely from when I am at work.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot. Okay, great. So now um let's talk about your first ever job.
00:15:26
Speaker
ah what was it, who was it for, and just tell me a little bit about someone entering the workforce now with the benefit of hindsight, how were you treated and then what do you now look back as valuable learnings from that, so Guy, I'll i'll ask you to start.
First Jobs: McDonald's and Subway
00:15:45
Speaker
Well, ah as per the advice, the recommendation of you, ah my first job was at McDonald's, the local McDonald's to me. i was there for, i think, five and a half years um before I eventually quit. And I quit to do my first ah full-time office job, the the placement one as part of uni. So I pretty much stayed there, like, realistically as long as I could have.
00:16:06
Speaker
um the remainder of high school and into uni. Really good job, really good job. um I know people kind of have different experiences at McDonald's, know depending on what store they work at, but really good job um for a multitude of reasons. I think it teaches you a lot about almost everything, dare I say, McDonald's is very like single swim. Like you come in, you're casual and you're either good at the job and then you get shifts and then you get offers, you know, to become part-time or what have you, or you're not good and you don't get shifts. And so I guess that's...
00:16:40
Speaker
dare I say, like your first real world kind of lesson, you know, the first taste of like the real world, so to speak, um which is you get from it what you put into it. um Beyond that, I mean, the social aspect is great. Obviously, it's a lot of people your age, so you make friends, meet new people.
00:16:57
Speaker
um It's very, very social, very chatty, which is really good. They're very flexible. um Considering that they're open 24-7, it's good too because the opportunities to work are a lot more than they would be, say, if you worked in like retail or something, um you know, a wide range of shifts available to you.
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, i i I really have no complaints. It was a great first job. um Yeah, I can't speak highly enough of it. Great. Okay. So, Nikki, what about you? ah parallel to um I worked at Subway.
00:17:31
Speaker
ah I hated it. um I worked for an owner that had franchised two Subways in the area and they were just horrible. When I started this job, I was 15.
00:17:44
Speaker
fifteen So I was very, very young. The owners did nothing except watch us on the security cameras all day, every day. And they would call us every five minutes and say, you haven't done this, you done that. Why did you do that? Why were in the toilet for so long? Just constantly being watched and micromanaged. And I remember the ringtone of the phone that we had in store, the landline. I had, I think, PTSD for about three years afterwards. Anytime I would be like in a charcoal chicken or fish and chip shop and I would hear that same landline phone ring, I jumped because it was just, it was so awful. And yeah, as it was pretty much working with exclusively girls my age, all of us in sort of mid high school years, And we were constantly made to work alone. You'd have to open and close the store completely by yourself. And also the subway I worked at was attached to a petrol station. So you just had all kinds of people through there at all times of day. And it was just awful. The bosses and the management were just awful. They weren't ethical. They weren't honest. And it just made me very, very, very, very anxious and very cautious in getting another job. And I was only there for about three months because I think they refused to pay me the legal wage. They refused to pay me, I think, over nine dollars an hour, which was just ridiculous. Even when I would work shifts by myself, closing or opening.
00:19:16
Speaker
um at ridiculous hours. So yeah, bit of a different experience from Guy. Yes, very much so. Wow. And i now you've mentioned those things, it certainly reminds me of you talking about that experience and to me. And i remember thinking, well, don't know how they expect to keep employees if they're going to treat people like that.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, I remember the turnover was just ridiculous. Every shift I would work, I would work with someone new. I don't think I ever worked with the same person twice. All right, let's now dig into three statements about Gen
Gen Z's Work-Life Balance Priorities
00:19:51
Speaker
Z. I went to an RCSA conference earlier in the year. Well, it's probably only about three months ago now, and there was a Gen Z speaker and he outlined some of the characteristics of Gen Z. So, Nicky, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to read the first one out and then I want you to just say whether you think that's broadly accurate in describing you or not, and then a short reason as to why. And then also to consider the people that you're closest to, work colleagues, friends, whether you think it's broadly accurate in terms of, of of course, them being Gen Zs.
00:20:29
Speaker
Okay, so here's the first one. Gen Z prioritize work-life balance. Gen Z seeks jobs that facilitate their lives, not the other way around, leading to a demand for remote working, asynchronous communication, the ability to disconnect from work-related communications after hours. They believe that many things once considered privileges are now necessities. Gen Z believes their employer is purchasing their value, not their time.
00:20:54
Speaker
The focus is on the outcome and the quality of their contribution, not the number of hours spent at work. Yeah, I think that's like very, very accurate ah for myself and i would say all my close friends, I mean, myself and my friends all just work essentially to fund what we do outside of work time. mean, we're working to accrue annual leave so we can go on another holiday. We're only working to live. We're not living to work. And yeah, I think flexible working arrangements and all these things that were once a privilege, like, you know, a lax dress code or working from home.
00:21:35
Speaker
i mean, most of us, that's just something we look for in a job and is like a necessity. i mean, currently I'm looking for a bit of a career change and in new roles, work from home is just a must. So yeah, I very much agree with that statement.
00:21:49
Speaker
Okay, great. Guy? I agree with the statement too. I think it's kind of like once the genie is out of the bottle, it's hard to put it back. You know what I mean? Like COVID taught us that we could work from home. And now that we know it works, why wouldn't we?
00:22:04
Speaker
um i definitely think obviously it's it's very important to a lot of, well, ah I wouldn't even say Gen Z, like everyone, to be honest, like regardless of what generation you're in ah in terms of the trade-offs that are made for it,
00:22:18
Speaker
It would be hard for me to speak on that generalization broadly because it would kind of depend. Like the people that live, like for example, my partner um lives quite close to the city and her role is five days a week in the office. Like you can work from home, um but like really it's kind of like if you have a doctor's appointment, otherwise you're in the office. The commute for her is 10 minutes on tram, maybe 11. And she has absolutely no issues going into the office. In fact, she would rather go into the office five days a week than have the ability to work from home um because because living so close to the city, she lives in an apartment. So a bit different for me living in a house a bit further out. um But yeah, she has absolutely no no qualms.
00:23:00
Speaker
Okay, great.
Corporate Responsibility and Ethics
00:23:02
Speaker
Alright, so Guy, i'll start with you with the second one. Gen is a purpose-driven generation that demands clear, simple answers to big questions about a company's ethics and impacts such as, who do we generate wealth for?
00:23:17
Speaker
Do we help or harm the planet? Do we treat our people well? How are we growing our sector? How do we support our wider community? and are we on the right side of history? They expect organisations to take a firm stance on social and political issues.
00:23:33
Speaker
ah For example, climate strikes, gender pay gap, Gaza. They view corporate responsibility as a basic expectation, not a bonus, and are watching to see if leaders still care about diversity and inclusion as the political winds shift.
00:23:50
Speaker
So it's important, but I'll be honest, I'm not sure how much that impacts kind of job choice, you know, whether you stay at a job, leave, etc. For example, they're always going to be the people that go work for oil companies, BHP, banks, um you know, those businesses you would traditionally deem perhaps not the most ethical.
00:24:11
Speaker
And I think there are people that always take those jobs and they're a bit kind of like not ideal, but it is what it is. You do what you do to get ahead. And there are people that maybe aren't super happy with it, um but do it for the sake of the money or the experience or what have you.
00:24:27
Speaker
um In terms of whether we demand it more than say like other generations, it's hard to say. I definitely think
00:24:35
Speaker
we're a lot more wary of as a generation of kind of the likes of like green washing and like these vague kind of nebulous statements that don't mean anything i think corporate social responsibility is important to us um but i also don't i would like to think we're not so naive to think that I guess that's make or break for a role. you know I would never work for a business that isn't you know funded by 100% renewables or doesn't have like an incredibly progressive hiring policy or something like that. I think it is important, um but um in Australia especially, I'm not sure how much that would really impact hiring decisions or kind of decisions that will work somewhere, especially compared to other generations as well. All right. Great. Nikki?
00:25:22
Speaker
um Yeah, I agree with the statement a bit and I definitely agree with what Guy is saying. I mean, personally, an experience I can think of is when I worked for Dan Murphy's about halfway through my tenure, Dan Murphy's announced that they were opening stores in dry communities in the Northern Territory. So in deep Indigenous Australian country where these communities are dry for a reason, it's cultural, it's impactful. And for them to be opening these big box liquor stores, like it really didn't sit right with me. And I remember discussing it with co-workers and, you know, none of us are really happy about it. But it's hard because no company is your friend. Like it's stupid to think that Apple is your friend or Woolworths are your friend. They can make these big you know, corporate statements about their promises to do whatever. But I think at the end of the day, these are huge corporations and their role is to make money. And I think although our generation is a lot more aware of these things and obviously, you know, we want them to be environmentally friendly, we want them to be sustainable, we want them to be, you know gender inclusive, but We also are not naive to the fact that they are just money making machines and that's what they are. I don't expect, you know, big W to have the same ethics as my best friend.
00:26:50
Speaker
So although I would love those things in my employer, I also am very realistic. about the fact that that just might not happen. sure and like it's a supply and demand thing, right? Like there aren't so many businesses that have, you know, these amazing platforms of kind of giving back to the community, you know,
00:27:10
Speaker
responsible sourcing materials, whatever it is, like there's not so many businesses that as a generation we can all quit and just go, you know, leave the likes of like the banks to go work there. So, i you know, I deal well, like if we were given control, sure.
00:27:25
Speaker
But like Nikki said, like I said, we're not naive, like we understand what businesses are. And I think in every generation there's going to be people that take a principled stand, but I also feel like they're always going to be in the minority. Okay.
00:27:39
Speaker
Great. Final
Loyalty to People vs. Corporations
00:27:40
Speaker
one. So, Nikki, this is a shorter one. Gen Z desires for rapid career progression despite their challenges such as phone anxiety and difficulty tolerating uncomfortable emotions.
00:27:53
Speaker
Ultimately, Gen Z, like any other generation, is not loyal to nameless, faceless corporations, but to people. Yeah, i agree with that. I think sort of the thing being like,
00:28:06
Speaker
you know, we're relying on our phones and we never want to be uncomfortable and that sort of thing. i find that a bit like far-fetched and I do find that a bit of like an older generation take as in like young people just don't want to work anymore. It's like, okay, well, have you ever actually spoken to a young person who's looking for a job? I don't think you have.
00:28:27
Speaker
But I do very much agree with the fact that my generation is not loyal to, you know, it's like, oh, I worked for Coles for 25 years, so I'm so loyal to that company. I think we are definitely loyal to people. Like, i don't agree with for-profit childcare as a sector. I mean, that is who I work for. But I'm extremely loyal to my manager, who is just excellent. She has only ever been good to me. She's one of the best bosses I've ever had. And when I'm looking for another job, I'm not thinking, oh, darn, I don't want to leave this company. I'm thinking, I don't want to leave my manager. She's incredible. You know I go to war for her.
00:29:10
Speaker
I'm not at all thinking about who's actually paying me. I'm thinking about the person who, you know, my job impacts every single day. Great. And Guy?
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah, I'll echo that. I think most people... When they go to work, it's for the, and like I said, there's always going to be the fringe minority that do it for the prestige, right? They want to work at a big four at KPMG and they're loyal to the brand name of KPMG and what that can kind of do for their career.
00:29:37
Speaker
um But that exists in every generation and they're fringe. I would say, I think most people, it it comes down to who you work with, right? Your managers, the people kind of, you know, in the trenches with you, you're loyal to them.
00:29:48
Speaker
And if they leave or for whatever reason they're not suitable, um you know, the manager you just don't like, you disagree with their tactics, whatever it is, um you're going to go Like, I think you're going to be hard pressed to find too many people who work at McDonald's who are very loyal to the brand name McDonald's. You work there because you like the people work with. Yeah.
00:30:05
Speaker
Okay. Great.
Influential Managers and Leadership
00:30:06
Speaker
Well, that's a perfect segue into leadership. So as we move towards the end of the um discussion, ah this is an opportunity to give a shout out to the person who from a work context has provided the best leadership to you So feel free to name them if you would like and specifically say what you've appreciated about their leadership and how you think it's helped you. So Guy, why don't we start with you?
00:30:32
Speaker
I'm actually, i'm I'm going to give an answer to this that you might not think I'm going to give. Well, you might think I was going to give. um I'm actually going to shout out my manager at the job I was at prior to this one. So the post-grad job I took that i only stayed at for five months.
00:30:47
Speaker
um She was really like pretty much within like a month or so of being there, I decided i didn't want to be there anymore. And I was quite upfront with her about like how I felt, you know, the fact that I was going to look for another role, that sort of thing.
00:31:01
Speaker
um And she was fantastic about it. Obviously, you know, you you finish uni, you get your first post-grad job within a month, you go, it's not for me. Like on so many levels, you just feel with dread and you go, you know, is there something wrong with me? Have I messed up? Like there's there's a lot of emotions kind swirling around. Did that make I make, did study the right thing? I made the right career choice, et cetera?
00:31:20
Speaker
She was really good in essentially just reassuring me that like, Hey, it's fine. If you don't want to be here, I get it. It's not for everyone. I get it. Let's work through this in a way that's going to work for you and work for us as well, obviously. um So she was fantastic. And I actually texted her on the day of my either one year or two year anniversary, the job I'm at, I can't remember. I texted her and I pretty much just said, hey, um you know, I moved on. I'm doing really well the business I'm at. I'm super happy here. I'm probably going to be here for a while. And I want to thank you for like being so supportive. um And she pretty much said, no worries. Glad to hear it. Like, you know, I meant what I said back in the day, wishing you all the best. um So I've had a lot of good leaders, I would say, but that experience has stuck with me.
00:32:01
Speaker
um And yeah, I think I'm always really going to appreciate that. Yeah, brilliant. Do you want to name check her or not? Yeah, Christine. Christine. Yeah, I'm i'm forgetting her last name, unfortunately, off the top of my head. remember it's Christine. So, yeah cru shout out. Shout out to her.
00:32:18
Speaker
Excellent. And Nicky. Well, I've spoken about my current manager enough already. Her name is Mel. So shout out Mel. Love you very much. um But my boss at Dan Murphy's was actually fantastic, which I find can be pretty rare in retail. um And his name is Phil. Shout out Phil. He was great. And I thought, or still think, he did an excellent job at walking that extremely fine line between boss and friend. and i think especially working in retail you're working with a lot of kids that are you know just 18 or sort of you know going through union starting to figure out their lives and i think
00:33:01
Speaker
He did a really excellent job of being able to have fun and banter with us, but also be extremely professional. He was able to tell us, you know, where we needed to improve. If we wanted career progression in Danmove is what we would have to do. He was very happy to facilitate absolutely anything to make our careers within the business go further. um And when I left, I remember he was really, really upset. But I remember at the time there was a big pay restructure in Dan Murphy's and they had just cut a bunch of hours and cut a whole bunch of roster funding. And I remember when I gave my notice, he was just like, I'm so sorry that like this business has failed you. He's like, I want to give you more hours. I want to give you more work, but I just can't.
00:33:50
Speaker
And he was like, you know, so I completely understand you leaving because you're not getting what you need from this business. And I'm so sorry that I couldn't give it to you because I literally can't, like they're not giving me the tools. So yeah, I just remember he was absolutely fantastic. He was very intimidating at first, especially when he interviewed me and I was only 18 and he would have been in his mid thirties, but yeah, he was absolutely fantastic. So shout out Phil, you're a great manager.
00:34:17
Speaker
Great. Excellent. ah Well, talking about careers, um just briefly, mean, hopefully both of you have three, maybe four decades ahead of you working, whether it's full-time or part-time.
Future Career Aspirations
00:34:32
Speaker
But what do you hope for your career? So, Nikki, I'll start with you. what's What's important in terms of work at the age of 24 thinking about the next however many decades?
00:34:45
Speaker
Well, first of all, I hope I don't have that many decades. I hope retir tomorrow um I don't want to work even if I was doing my favourite thing in the world because no one dreams of labouring every single day. um But at the moment I'm actually looking for a bit of a career change because the amount of stress on my body from being on my feet all day and for doing jobs that have been on my feet all day ever since I graduated high school is kind of taking a toll. So I'm looking for something where I can either be like part time at a desk, part time in a kitchen or just, you know, some more work from home flexibility. So I'm looking for something a bit different. But I think for me especially, i just hope I never do the same thing twice. um I know i get bored really, really easily. So I just hope I'm able to, you know, maybe have a couple of different careers, not just a couple of different jobs because I think, I will never ever get sick of learning. I love learning new things. I love acquiring new skills and I love getting better at stuff. So yeah I just hope I can do a million different things in my lifetime. And I really hope that some of those things, like Guy said, cannot feel like work. Because I think when you really are aware that you're working, that really takes a toll on you as well. Sure.
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, I get it. Great. Guy. ah it's important to me that AI doesn't replace me. ah Fair call. No, no, I'm just kidding. Only somewhat. Look, it's pretty simple answer. I think for me, there are three big pillars. um One is opportunity. So obviously opportunities to progress, to do new things, to challenge yourself, et cetera.
00:36:28
Speaker
ah The second is culture. um Bit of a corporate buzzword. Sometimes I feel everyone likes to say they have culture. no one wants to say they don't. um But those that really have culture know it and those that don't know it too. um so working in a business actually has culture it's somewhere good to work um i think the stale white collar kind of cubicle office culture is very very quickly going um and i think dare i say it's going to be sink or swim over the next 20 30 years um where you either get rid of that and you transform into something else or you stick with it and struggle to recruit any new talent um
00:37:10
Speaker
The third one I would say, which probably is the most important to me, kind of Nikki already said it before, it's that work doesn't feel like work. um Fortunately, at the moment, I don't get the Sunday scaries. I don't you know wake up Sunday morning and go, oh, I have go work tomorrow. you' got to be kidding me.
00:37:28
Speaker
um And ideally, i would like to never experience that again. um so if I have those three for the rest of my life, I'd say i would be pretty happy. Okay, great.
Rapid-Fire Opinions on Various Topics
00:37:39
Speaker
All right, we have a short, sharp section now, and I've got 20 things, and I'm going to read out each of those things.
00:37:48
Speaker
And what I would like from each of you is a score. So the score is five equals I'm highly positive about this. Four, I'm generally positive about this. Three, I'm neutral or it's irrelevant or I'm indifferent to this.
00:38:06
Speaker
Two, generally negative. One, highly negative about this okay you ready do you want to you want to go first well no we'll alternate so i'll i'll start with nikki and then guy so i just need a number okay you ready sounds good all right anthony albanese neutral three he gets a four from me taylor swift well there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire so two
00:38:38
Speaker
you i'm goingnna I'm going to say two as well. Okay. Beer. Oh, one. o Yeah, one. I hate beer. Instagram. Two. Not as bad as TikTok.
00:38:51
Speaker
um I'm going to say it's three. Uber Eats. One. One. um Four. Ed Sheeran.
00:39:02
Speaker
One. One. ChatGPT. Minus a million. Five. Harry Potter books and movies.
00:39:15
Speaker
what Minus a million. J.K. Rowling is extremely transphobic. Yeah, J.K. Rowling kind of ruined it. um But I have to respect the cultural significance of it, so I'm going to say three. Okay. Spotify.
00:39:30
Speaker
They treat their artists like dirt, but I love their program, so four. It's got to be five. E-bikes. ah Irrelevant, so like two?
00:39:41
Speaker
Five. Tones and I. Oh, one. Sorry, girl. One. The monarchy. Oh, God. Jesus, no. Terrible. One.
00:39:54
Speaker
One. out Outdated concept. We've progressed far enough as a society. We don't need it anymore. One. Okay. Work from home or flexible work? Five.
00:40:04
Speaker
Five. Wine. Two. Five. Podcasts. ah hi my I listened to 32,000 minutes of podcasts on Spotify last year. Podcasts get a five from me.
00:40:19
Speaker
So there are a lot of good podcasts in the world that do a lot of good, and there are a lot of horrendous podcasts that have done booja rogan boom yeah that have done irreparable harm to the fabric of society, young men, trusting institutions, science. so I just need a number.
00:40:34
Speaker
Three. Okay. Going to the footy. Oh, yeah. Four. Nah, it's got to be a five. Come on. All right. Recreational drugs.
00:40:46
Speaker
ah Five. Hard pass. I'm not answering that in front of you. Five. He gives it a five too. I'm not answering that. ah Netflix. They fell off. Three. Yeah, they did. Three.
00:41:00
Speaker
And finally, overseas travel. Five. Five. Come on. Okay. Excellent. All right. that's That's the end of that section. Excellent.
00:41:11
Speaker
Okay.
Advice to Older Generations
00:41:12
Speaker
So to conclude, let's start with you, Guy. Anything you want to tell the older generations? What should ah Gen X know? What should the baby boomers know about the way they're running things now?
00:41:29
Speaker
I had an answer initially, which I was going to talk about work from home and how important it is and that you shouldn't fight it. um But i'm going to change my answer to this. Try not to be too hard on the younger generation, because remember that once you were the younger generation and the older generation was hard on you.
00:41:44
Speaker
I'm pretty sure it's quite well established at this point that older generations are always harder on younger generations. You know, they don't understand progressive concepts as much. They don't understand new technologies, how they shape the younger generation compared to them. and What we don't know is scary.
00:41:59
Speaker
um I think by now, too, the whole, you know, Gen Z can't buy houses because of smashed avocado on toast has been pretty thoroughly debunked um with how much the average house price has gone up compared to the median salary. um So I would say respectfully resist the urge to make ignorant statements um unless the statements you're making are very, very data driven.
00:42:23
Speaker
try and avoid yeah gross uneducated assumptions about the younger generation um because that's only going to incur either hostility from the younger generation or positive reinforcement from an echo chamber which what value does that bring okay great nikki yeah i very much agree with guy um especially with the fact that the older generation always thinks the younger generation is doomed. i was listening to a podcast the other day and they were citing a newspaper article um where there was panic from parents that radio was going to melt children's brains and that radio was going to be the downfall of society. So I think, yeah, an older generation is always going to think the new technology is awful and it's going to kill everyone. AI will, by the way. I hate AI. That's a part of this. um But I just wish, yeah, the older generation would know that we just want to live our lives and we just want to be human beings that work to fund the lives that we live. Yeah.
00:43:29
Speaker
And going back to what we were saying earlier, I wish that they would value the end product instead of the time spent. I know there's so many people that I know that work nine to five corporate type jobs and they say, I get to work at 8.30 and I finished all my work by 11 o'clock, but then I just have to sit there until five. So I really hope that this culture, which I think is moving out with work from home, of, you know, your time is the value. It's like the end product and what I'm producing should be the value. So if that takes me three hours instead of eight hours, pay me for the product, not the time that I've spent doing it. um And that also makes me think of um ah like a famous Salvador Dali thing where
00:44:16
Speaker
he would refuse to sign napkins or draw anything small because people would want them for free. And he would say, well, I'm going to charge you $10,000 for something I've drawn on a napkin because what's gone into that drawing on a napkin has been 40 years of practice, of schooling, of materials, of trial and error.
00:44:36
Speaker
You're not paying for the five seconds it took me to draw this. You're paying for the 40 years that has led up to this moment. So I really believe that that sort of attitude should be used going forward. It's like pay people for their experience and what they produce, not how long it took them to do it.
00:44:56
Speaker
Right. Yep. No. I agree. All right. So... Anything that we haven't covered that you just want to briefly sign off with or finish with? Anything you're busting to say, Guy? Anything?
00:45:13
Speaker
ah Don't fight work from home unless you genuinely have a good workplace culture. And you know if you do, um you're on the you're on the wrong side of history. You're on the losing side. And the tighter you grip, um the more it's going to slip through your fingers.
00:45:28
Speaker
Okay. Nicky, anything final? Let people use their leave. Like let people have a sick day. Let people take their annual leave if they've got it. Let people take unpaid leave.
00:45:40
Speaker
Just if it's not going to affect how they do their job, just let people have time off. It's not the end of the world. Right. Great. All right. Well, if people want to connect with you, in what ways should they contact you if you want people to contact you? Guy?
00:46:01
Speaker
um I guess LinkedIn um would probably be the most appropriate answer. ah Just Guy Clannett, same spelling of the surname as my father, and then just G-U-Y, Guy. yeah, if you really want to reach out, um connect with me LinkedIn.
00:46:16
Speaker
Okay. Nicky? I don't have LinkedIn because I'm not a corporate slave. But if you want to connect, you can send me an email. I will get Dad to put my email in the show notes if you are interested. Okay. um But, yeah. Excellent. talking there.
00:46:33
Speaker
Great. Well, thank you both. i really appreciate you being generous guests and freely sharing your opinions. been much appreciated. And um I look forward to doing it again, maybe in two or three years time and see and hear how your views might have changed then. So thanks.