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Episode 137 - What can you do when no-one picks up your calls?
70 Plays1 day ago
Episode 137 - What can you do when no-one picks up your calls?
Unemployment improves despite slower overall job growth. Search 4 announce a further enhancement to their parental leave policy. SafeWork NSW crackdown: the results will surprise you.
As well as company results for Accordant Group and Persol
Recommended
Transcript
New Sponsor Announcement: Wingman Recruitment
00:00:08
Speaker
Adele, have you heard the good news about our new sponsor, Wingman Recruitment? I hear they've had a win, Ross. They have. One of the loyal ah RNA listeners decided that they're ready to expand and they were going to expand with Wingman Recruitment.
00:00:23
Speaker
Well, it's a pretty clear choice. I'm assuming that the podcast interview we did with them was quite compelling? I'm sure the thought of a remote professional to help them expand without a significant increase in cost or hassle was a compelling value proposition.
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm sure it also helps that Wingman is supported by recruiters who actually use these professionals and know how it all works. For more information about Wingman, go to wingmangroup.com.au and click on the services tab.
Australia's Employment Surge: A Positive Sign?
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome to Recruitment News Australia for the 18th of November 2025. I'm Adele Last. And I'm Ross Clennett. And the good news, Adele, is that Australia's unemployment rate dropped to 4.3% in October, down from 4.5% in September. So it does take us back to where we were in June, July and August. It's a return to stability after last month's little increase.
00:01:21
Speaker
And the ABS says employment rose by about 42,000 people in October. with 17,000 fewer people unemployed. So that's a fairly solid shift. It is. And BDO's chief economist, ah Anders Magnussen, says this supports the idea that September's increase was just a statistical blip, thankfully, not the start of a downturn in the labour market.
00:01:45
Speaker
Right. He described October's result as reflecting strong job creation and reducing unemployment in a healthy labour market. Pretty optimistic tone.
Challenges in Job Growth
00:01:54
Speaker
It is. that That is encouraging, although i did see Callum Pickering from Indeed pointing out some less great news, and that is that if you look at total employment gains between January and October this year, 160,000 jobs, but unfortunately, if you compare that to the previous year, yeah
00:02:16
Speaker
Same period, 325,000 new jobs. So basically it's halved job growth. So that is concerning. major part of that slowdown is coming from the healthcare and social assistance sector, which powered much of the post-pandemic boom, as we know. Hiring there has eased up and the private sector hasn't been able to make up the difference.
00:02:38
Speaker
They haven't, although what I will point out is that the latest labour market data does support the employer optimism we reported couple of weeks ago, where the September JSA Recruitment Experiences Outlook Survey reported 24% of employers said they were planning to increase headcount in the next three months, and last week's internet vacancy index reported an increase in the number of job ads compared to September.
High Business Confidence vs Employment Reality
00:03:11
Speaker
So the labour market is steady, but businesses aren't exactly throwing open the doors. ah That ties in with the latest Deloitte Access Economics Investment Monitor, which shows business confidence is close to its highest level since late 2022.
00:03:24
Speaker
But that business confidence isn't translating to a jump in private sector employment just yet.
Superannuation Contributions during Maternity Leave
00:03:30
Speaker
Adele, something I saw on LinkedIn last week that made me very, very happy. Search for, most people probably don't know that name, probably know the brands, design and build, public sector people and tech and data people.
00:03:45
Speaker
They announced a new initiative to support the company's working parents. Tell us more, Ross. They announced, although they already pay maternity leave,
00:03:56
Speaker
um But they said, well, Andrew McGregor specifically, one of the directors said in his LinkedIn post, from now on, we'll continue making superannuation contributions for any unpaid maternity leave taken by a primary carer.
00:04:11
Speaker
This is really great news. I noted that McGregor also said, on average, women retire with 26% less superannuation than men. That's a gap we're determined to help close.
00:04:22
Speaker
And this is one way we can make a lasting difference to our team's financial future. What a great initiative. It is a great initiative, particularly a company that directors amend. So good on you, Andy. Good on you, Tom. Good on you, Neil.
00:04:35
Speaker
This is a great example for our industry and I look forward to hearing other agencies in our sector following suit.
Accordant Group's Loss and Future Prospects
00:04:44
Speaker
On to some company results, Ross.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yes, a couple this week, Adele. Firstly, in New Zealand-listed recruiter Accordant Group. They own the brands Madison Recruitment, Absolute IT, Jackson Stone & Partners, Hobson Levy and AWF have announced a $1.6 million dollars loss for the six months to the 30th of September 2025 on the back of a year-on-year dec decline in group revenue.
00:05:09
Speaker
to $82 million New Zealand dollars. The loss for the equivalent period last year was just under $2 million, dollars so they have improved. Cordon CEO Jason Charrington said the company enters the second half of the year with greater confidence than at this time last year, noting that overall optimism for 2026 certainly rising amongst many of our clients. So that's good news to our cousins across the ditch.
00:05:36
Speaker
And then secondly, Japanese staffing firm Persol reported revenue for the first six months of their 2026 fiscal year, ended 30 September 2025, of US$4.8 billion. us dollars So that's an increase of 4.9% compared to the same period last year.
00:05:53
Speaker
Gross profit was up 5.4%, EBITDA up and operating profit increased fourteen percent In commentary ah accompanying the results, the company stated the facility management business, trading as programmed in Australia, was ah particularly strong and on a local currency basis, revenue increased.
Work Relationships and AI Solutions
00:06:18
Speaker
There are some significant new findings that have just come out about how Australians feel about their jobs. And frankly, at first glance, numbers aren't great.
00:06:29
Speaker
No, they're not, Ross. HP's latest Work Relationship Index shows that only 14% of Australian knowledge workers say they have a healthy relationship with their job.
00:06:39
Speaker
That's a drop of 13 percentage points in just one year. Wow, that is massive. um And putting that into perspective, probably a depressing perspective, 14% is below the average score across eight developed markets covered in the report. In fact, Australia was second lowest with only Japan ranking lower.
00:07:01
Speaker
The decline is happening across multiple sectors too, Ross, finance, manufacturing, education. Workers are reporting a big slip in satisfaction. Only 44% say their job gives them a sense of purpose.
00:07:12
Speaker
And just 39% feel properly recognised for what they do. Yeah, it's probably not hard to guess why More than half of knowledge workers say they've experienced changes at work, cost-cutting, redundancies, changes, shifts, flip-flopping with respect to remote work or hybrid arrangements. So all of that, like I mean, it really does get workers down.
00:07:39
Speaker
Plus, 58% say employer demands have increased. So you've got more pressure, less stability, and fewer people feeling valued. It's a tough combination.
00:07:50
Speaker
Surprisingly, the report highlights one potential bright spot, and I've got to say, this did make me sit up and take notice, AI tools. Employees working companies that invest in the right tech, specifically AI, are apparently five times more likely to have a healthy relationship with their work.
00:08:09
Speaker
which suggests that it's not just about reducing workload, it's about giving people the tools that actually support them instead of adding to their stress. And I would think that's appropriate within the recruitment space as well.
00:08:20
Speaker
I mean, I think overall, I'd conclude that, okay, Australian workers are feeling the strain, but the organisations that are modernising, that are equipping their workers with the right resources are getting ahead.
00:08:33
Speaker
And so if other employers took the same initiative, that could really make a difference to their frontline employees.
SafeWork NSW Inspections: A Safety Overview
00:08:41
Speaker
Last month, SafeWork NSW carried out its largest compliance blitz since becoming a standalone regulator earlier this year.
00:08:49
Speaker
Over just three days, from October 13 15, 250 inspectors conducted 570 unannounced workplace checks as part of National SafeWork Month.
00:09:02
Speaker
And of those 570 inspections, there was a massive 736 non-compliance notices issued to 261 employers across the state. So, disappointingly, that's more than two notices per employer on average, Adele.
00:09:20
Speaker
I've worked in safety recruitment, Ross, and those notices aren't always bad news. Often they can provide opportunities to improve safety. However, some of the most common issues are pretty serious ones.
00:09:32
Speaker
209 notices were about unsafe work at heights and 175 notices related to the operation of mobile plant vehicles or fixed machinery. And as mo most people would know or guess, those areas can lead to some of the most severe injuries. Splits also led to 10 fines totalling just over $63,000. Half of those linked to fall from height risks But safety, as we know, isn't just physical. Safe work inspectors also conducted 228 psychosocial checks.
00:10:04
Speaker
They had targeted conversations with employers and workers about things like stress, workload and other psychological hazards and what steps workplaces are actually taking to manage those risks.
00:10:16
Speaker
With the scale of this blitz, it's pretty clear SafeWork NSW is signalling that employers need to lift their game across both physical and psychological safety.
00:10:28
Speaker
And to be clear, this includes on-hire workers provided by labour hire firms and recruitment agencies. So there is no lessening of employer responsibility for our industry.
Recruitment Calls and Mindset
00:10:55
Speaker
Adele, I have a question of the week for you. I'm talking to recruiters fairly regularly and this comes up pretty consistently. Why does nobody pick up calls anymore?
00:11:10
Speaker
Okay. I'm assuming you're referring to recruiters complaining about this with clients, possibly candidates as well. right Correct. That's right. And I have heard about this as well.
00:11:21
Speaker
I've heard people complain. I've seen posts online about it. um But I'm calling it as BS, Ross. Really? Really? This is not your experience? This is not my personal experience. Now, some of you may know that I've been working more recently with Roy AI, which is a recruitment automation platform. And I've been helping them grow their client base, which has involved cold calling recruitment agencies.
00:11:48
Speaker
So clients like any other. But I am cold calling, as some warm calling, but some cold calling clients. of companies and i am not having this experience. Hang on, hang on, hang on. So you're calling the owner or owners or managing director, CEO type level? Yes, generally the owner, owners or um sometimes marketing managers, reasonably someone, someone reasonably senior in an organisation.
00:12:13
Speaker
And I must admit that I've been pleasantly surprised at how many people are picking up the call and answering and and, you know, having a chat with me. in fact I was thinking that it was, going in my mind, I had the mindset like this, nobody's going to pick up calls because everybody keeps saying that.
00:12:33
Speaker
And so I started out from a negative point of view and I thought, right, I'll just kind of do 10 calls today and just see where it goes. And I was pleasantly surprised so much so that that switched in the last month to be my primary way of reaching out to people.
00:12:47
Speaker
Okay, so let's um quantify this. so just give me a hit rate. Are you talking five out of 10 dials, the personal pickup, or two out of 10? It's about eight out of 10.
00:13:00
Speaker
No way. Eight out of 10? Eight out of 10, I'm finding, picking up the phone and and having a conversation with me. At least four out of 10 are having a decent conversation with me, not trying to get off the phone and booking an appointment.
00:13:14
Speaker
Okay. So the conversion rate's good. Well, that's me as a salesperson, maybe. Okay. So next question. Even if you're not someone that they've had previous face-to-face communication with, do they still recognize the name Adele Last and that at least opens the door for the beginning of a conversation?
00:13:37
Speaker
Well, some people don't know who I am. It's not always because of who I am or what I, you know, it it is definitely cold. I'm having to introduce myself. myself and the business, so they don't know about it. The business has pretty good branding, but that could be the same for many recruitment agencies. so I'm not at any advantage in that context. But, yes, sometimes I'm ringing and I'm saying I'm calling from Roy AI and they've heard of the business. So right that definitely helps.
00:14:03
Speaker
It could be that I'm calling a demographic that is potentially a little older and used to a world where we used to make and receive and take phone calls more frequently.
00:14:14
Speaker
will accept that ah But I don't know, I think a lot of agencies, a lot of people are using this as an excuse. Okay. Wow. You've thrown down the gauntlet, using it as an excuse.
00:14:26
Speaker
So does that mean you think, I suppose, given what you said earlier, people start with the default negative mindset? Oh, no one picks up the phone. They make three calls. No one picks up and therefore they stop.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think there is the propensity to lose your confidence around this or find it a frustrating way. And there are certainly days, you know, I mean, I remember calling a couple of weeks ago and I think Sydney had the public holiday on the Monday and I was calling on a Friday.
00:14:54
Speaker
ah was getting through to nobody. Nobody was answering the phone that day. Yeah. That was more of a timing issue, I think, more than um more than, you know, people weren't going to answer the phone. So you've got to consider those things. But, yeah, the mindset and your planning and and your energy and your confidence around it, I think that has a big deal, a big difference, makes a big difference into success of this kind of this method.
00:15:16
Speaker
ah Okay. And you also mentioned generation. So do you think that people of our vintage, let's broadly say Gen X, are much more phone first and messages second?
00:15:30
Speaker
And Gen Y and Gen Z are much more messages first, phone second? Well, that's what we're led to believe. So I would say i can only probably speak for our generation or a more comfortable to speak for our generation.
00:15:46
Speaker
where we came from the world of phone first, message second. You know, text message was when you were confirming you were running late or you only ever sent a text message as a very brief message about something. You never introduced yourself on a text message, of course. We always phoned.
00:16:02
Speaker
So we're so yeah we're we're much more used to having phone conversations. We're more used to answering a phone number we don't recognise. ah we recognise We recognise and value ah so having a phone conversation and how quickly that can progress things or solve things or clear things up.
00:16:19
Speaker
So I think there's a value to all of that for for the Gen Xs. The Gen Ys, I think, yes, culturally are not as comfortable with that. They're much more comfortable with text.
00:16:30
Speaker
They don't really want to answer the call. They don't answer calls from numbers that, you know, that they don't know. There's all of those kinds of things. So potentially if you're calling Gen Ys, maybe, you know, it requires a slightly different method, but I wouldn't assume it. I think the issue is the assumption. People are assuming that the cold call is not going to work and so they're not making it.
00:16:51
Speaker
Right. Okay. All right.
Engaging Clients with Creative Methods
00:16:53
Speaker
I'd accept that. What about alternatives? Let's let's look at some alternatives. All right. Let's assume that they're having trouble getting through to people.
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah. As trainers, Ross, what advice can we give? Well, okay. Voice notes. So voice notes are a thing. It's obviously not.
00:17:12
Speaker
a voice message, because a voice message clearly is you've tried to call someone and they've not picked up and they've got ah effectively an answer, it and you know, give you an option to leave a message compared to a voice note. So what's your view of the effectiveness of voice notes?
00:17:26
Speaker
Well, this is an interesting one too. I'm going to contradict you as well. I think um voice notes, I actually read a post this morning on LinkedIn and I didn't save it. So I um unfortunately can't reference a person. If you're listening, let me know. They were a recruiter and they were saying,
00:17:41
Speaker
ah please stop leaving voice notes for your clients. And they were specifically talking about talent acquisition clients and they were saying they don't like them, they don't want them, you know, don't do it. and So they were kind of and there were a whole lot of people commenting on that post saying, yes, agreed, agreed, voice notes are terrible. It's the worst kind of message. Hate it, hate it.
00:17:58
Speaker
So people were saying no to the voice note. However, i also use voice notes and I do like those as well because there's bit of personality to that. You know, a text message is boring really. I don't know.
00:18:09
Speaker
um the person and they don't know me. But if someone reaches out to me and leaves a voice note, I kind of like it. I can hear their voice. Sure. i i mean, that's what I would think. A voice note gives you i think, permission to provide An introduction. It's not just hello, call me back or this is who i am, but it's a little bit more expansive. All right. So what about a video introductory message? Is that any better than a voice note or worse?
00:18:39
Speaker
I think that is so much better. I would love that. I do like recording them, but good luck with that. The vast majority of people are not going to get onto a video, particularly for a cold outreach.
00:18:52
Speaker
They just won't do it. It's a funny thing in our industry, given that we are usually pretty you know high profile. we We need to be seen. We're branding ourselves. But still to this day, i would say, if I had to guess, I would say 90% to 95% of people do not want to be on a video, would not put their face on a video by choice.
00:19:13
Speaker
Okay. All right. Fair enough. What about other ways to get a person's attention to entice them to take a call or to book a call?
00:19:30
Speaker
Well, this is the thing I think perhaps, again, it's the mindset. Like we're thinking about the cold call being, I've got a job to do. I've got a purpose. I've got to make the call. i've got to connect with the person. They've got to find out about me.
00:19:41
Speaker
I've got a book an appointment. I've got book a booker client visit. I've got to find out about their recruitment needs. You know, we're we're doing it with that agenda. And I think that's probably part of the issue. I think we need to think about turning this on its head and thinking about why would the person want to take my call? Okay, they don't know you and they don't know that it's you calling when the number comes through. So, you know, that's a whole separate issue. But let's assume they answer the phone and you've got them on the phone.
00:20:07
Speaker
What are you saying? What are you providing to them? What is the reason for your call? Because if the reason is ah want to find out about your recruitment needs or, you know, I want to chat with you about the future of, you know, the workforce planning, you know, these are not things that we know for a fact because we're hearing this from TAs or all over the place, um mainly in the panel that we recently did for that RCSA consultant forum. But they they you've got to give something. You've got to provide some value. What is the reason that you're calling them and why would they want to stay on the phone with you?
00:20:40
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yep. i I agree. ah Let me give you a tactic that one of my clients has very successfully used. And this is a prepaid coffee cart where they've identified somebody that they want to speak to and they haven't been able to ah get that person on the phone.
00:21:01
Speaker
So through snail mail, they'll post them a prepaid coffee cart with like five... prepaid coffees to the, like they find out the local coffee shop or at least select one and then put a note in with it to say, um keen to talk with you about and know whether it's Temple Perm because, and they give a reason and I'll be calling later in the week or next week. In the meantime, have ah have a coffee on us.
00:21:33
Speaker
Okay. And that's been incredibly successful because… Can they tell if the person's cashed the card in? Can they tell if the coffee's been used? No. That's a good question. I don't think so because it's prepaid.
00:21:47
Speaker
There's no way. I suppose they could ask the coffee shop um about the redeeming. but So how are they measuring success? Are they phoning up afterwards and the person's yeah remembering them? Oh, yeah, I remember you sent me the coffee card.
00:21:59
Speaker
Yes. Okay. And the they're finding that people, not everyone, but a reasonable proportion, are proactively calling them after having got the coffee card to say,
00:22:12
Speaker
Oh, like I'm impressed. Like this is a bit kind of innovative or thank you. you're You're actually offering me something, even a cup of coffee, rather than just wanting to take up my time.
00:22:23
Speaker
Okay. So this is about reciprocity. It's it's almost the same concept. It's just that your method, your client's method's a little quirkier. Send them something like that, that grabs their attention. We used to do similar things. You know, you'd send them cho you know a Kit Kat and say, take a break. And when you're taking a break, give me a call. And there's all these quirky things. You could definitely do that if that's your style.
00:22:44
Speaker
I think I'm saying the same thing. I'm just saying provide some value to them that makes them pay attention to you. So grab their attention by value that you're providing. And when I'm saying value, i'm talking about information.
00:22:58
Speaker
I'm talking about stats and data. I'm talking about what's going on in the market. Yeah, marketing is market insights. So provide that information and keep providing it because they will see that you're a person of knowledge and they will see the value And that's what you want them to respond to when you finally call.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah.
Return of Traditional Business Development Methods
00:23:17
Speaker
And certainly if you're in industrial or blue-collar recruitment, then if you listen to the Confessions of a Recruiter podcast interview with our friend Jory from HPople, he details how a lot of HPople's business development success is just turning up into reception And talking to the receptionist or asking the person or asking to meet the person or see the person who's responsible for that recruitment.
00:23:44
Speaker
And as you will hear in that podcast, they have quite an impressive hit rate. Yeah, ah these are old school methods. As I said, we used to do the Kit Kat stuff. It's not dissimilar to the the the phone, coffee card, ah dropping into people's office, as you said, and and you know showing up unexpectedly. This was the stuff we used to do. you know And I'm talking...
00:24:05
Speaker
15, 20 years ago. So maybe it's cyclical, Ross. Maybe it all just comes back around again because people aren't answering their phone. We've got to shake it up another way and get in front of them. True. Just like everyone said vinyl records were dead and now they're the fastest growing music category. Everyone said making phone calls for business development purposes was dead and now it's back in fashion.
00:24:26
Speaker
You heard it first here on Recruitment News.
Encouraging Listener Reviews and Sharing
00:24:31
Speaker
Hey, Ross, I love being famous. Really, Adele? Why do you love being famous? I consider myself famous now because when I go to a recruitment event, people come up to me and say, hey, loving the podcast, and they want to chat. um I love it.
00:24:45
Speaker
Oh, okay. Well, people... come up to me, probably not as much by the sound as you, but you know what would be even more valuable than people saying in person to us how much they enjoy every episode of Recruitment News Australia?
00:25:00
Speaker
I guess it would be a review. It would be. loyal loyal listeners Please, we love your direct feedback, but if you could leave us a five-star review and some very nice warm comments on your favourite podcast review app, that would make us very happy.
00:25:20
Speaker
And also help us spread the word. If you know someone else in the industry, if you love listening to Recruitment News Australia, please tell your work colleagues, please tell other people in the industry, help us spread the word.
00:25:31
Speaker
Thanks, everyone. It really makes a difference.