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RNA Episode 130 What makes an in person event impactful?
112 Plays14 days ago
Episode 130
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Transcript
Record Low Gender Pay Gap in Australia
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to Recruitment News Australia. It's Tuesday the 30th of September. I'm Ross Clennett. And I'm Adele Last. Our first news article is about Australia's gender pay gap, which has hit a record low as women's workforce participation reached a record high, according to latest statistics from the ABS.
00:00:28
Speaker
The gender pay gap in average weekly ordinary full-time earnings went down from 11.9% to 11.5% in May of this
Occupational Gender Segregation Challenges
00:00:37
Speaker
year. However, males still out-earn females in 98% of the 688 occupations analysed.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yes, the headline data is quite promising, but when we dig down into more of the data, perhaps less so, so The data says only one in five workers work in gender-balanced occupations, and 70% of occupations have the same level of gender segregation compared to 15 years ago. you also find is that occupation shortages worsen
00:01:18
Speaker
As gender segregation intensifies, particularly in male-dominated occupations. So obvious ones to think of the construction sector with tradies and chefs.
Pay Disparities for First Nations Women
00:01:31
Speaker
First Nations women face the highest pay gaps with a 10-year gap of 38%. say it Over 100 occupations where the pay gap is more than 25% and almost 30 occupations with a pay gap over 35%. So not good news, Adele.
00:01:50
Speaker
There are some pockets where there has been broad gender balancing, particularly in managerial and professional occupations, ah some growth in roles like ambulance officers and paramedics,
00:02:03
Speaker
Dental practitioners and barristers are definitely less segregated according to this data. um Some have actually even tipped the other way altogether. So veterinarians and school principals had a gender balance and they've actually now been tipped into more moderately female-dominated occupations.
00:02:22
Speaker
So not much has changed, unfortunately, over the last 15 years in terms of gender balance. Certainly the pay gap has declined. What do you reckon for the next 15 years, Adele? Are you optimistic that things will change?
00:02:35
Speaker
Well, it's interesting to see the media on promoting the positivity in these results, but the reality of outcomes over something like 15 years doesn't look to be very positive, Ross.
00:02:48
Speaker
No, I think there's a lot of work still to be done. I'm not feeling totally optimistic about this. Yeah, I'm with you on this one, Adele. Can't feel particularly optimistic that much is going to change when the 2040 data is released.
Retirement Trends in Australia
00:03:04
Speaker
Hopefully when I'm retired. And speaking of retired, we have some data. from ah the Household Income and Labor Dynamic Survey, which focuses on the working lives of Australians.
00:03:19
Speaker
And what we do know is that Australians, both men and women, are staying in the workforce longer. So the data from 2023, we've got only 41% of women 27% we've got only forty one percent of women and twenty seven percent of men between the ages of 60 and 64 have fully retired, and that's significantly down. So by this stage in 2003, so 20 years before, nearly 70% of women had retired.
00:03:49
Speaker
So 30 percentage points fewer women have retired and men 48 and half years. and a half cent So that's, again, about the same 20 percentage points higher still working in the workforce. So what do you make of that, Adele?
00:04:07
Speaker
It's a really interesting one because obviously people are living longer. So, you know, that will impact some of this data. ah It could also better by, you know, standards of living and what we're wanting to achieve in life and our expectations of retirement as well. You know, we need to probably fund that for longer, I suppose.
00:04:25
Speaker
We're not prepared to just sort of you know sit on the porch and knit. um People are wanting really active retirement lifestyles, I think, as well. What are some of the other reasons, Ross? Generally, there's more part-time work available. It's more acceptable to have people, let's say, taper to retirement and organisations are concerned about the loss of knowledge. So I suspect that's and That's one reason. another one, i don't have any statistics to support this, but I suspect there's just a greater proportion of divorces later in life.
00:04:58
Speaker
And therefore, the asset pools of the couple that are divorcing now depleted. And if they're looking to focus on funding their retirement as a solo or single person, they probably have to work longer.
Generational Shifts in Retirement Preferences
00:05:14
Speaker
I think there's one that's missing from here too potentially is in relation to generational impact as well because it's pretty clear in that 20-year period you've gone from boomers to now some Gen X starting to retire and and not retiring supposedly according to these results.
00:05:31
Speaker
So I know that for myself, I often thought about retiring at 40. That was my plan. i was like, okay, I'm going to work really hard and I'm going to retire at 40. Now, even if I could have done that ah financially, I wouldn't have wanted to. Generationally, like I enjoy working. I want to keep working.
00:05:50
Speaker
I like the stimulation, the human contact, the networking, um the learning, all of that sort of stuff. So i think it might be to do potentially with our generations as well. Oh, I've got no doubt there's an acceptance.
00:06:04
Speaker
And look, professional sports a fantastic example. ah Saturday's AFL Grand Final was won by the Brisbane Lions, who were coached by Chris Fagan. At the age of 64, Chris became the oldest coach to coach a premiership team in the VFL or AFL. But that's a very pertinent and relevant example that people, particularly in the world of professional sport, which has been seen as a younger person's playground. Chris Fagan is aiming to win another flag next year at the age of 65. Yeah, that's a really good news story, isn't it? To see the value that is being placed in the wisdom of age, let's say.
00:06:42
Speaker
Let's face it, professional sports always led the way when it comes to changes in workforce attitudes. So maybe we're seeing it again here.
Challenges for Women in Tech Careers
00:06:52
Speaker
The next article was about a retention issue in women mid-career in tech roles, Ross.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yes, this was the Tech Council of Australia's latest survey. Unfortunately, women are leaving highly technical roles at nearly double the rate of men, especially mid-career. Major factors, toxic workplace culture, harassment,
00:07:21
Speaker
lack of ah female leadership and barriers to re-entry after parental leave. So this is well, I suppose circling back to that earlier data about gender segregation in certain occupations, here's some pretty hard facts about where one occupation that's clearly been male dominated is not making much progress in terms of getting women to stay and stay longer in that sector.
00:07:52
Speaker
And certainly the data represents that women are only shown as 20% of the tech workforce in Australia overall, and that drops to 16% over the age of 40.
00:08:05
Speaker
as they get older and wiser themselves and more experienced, they're not really um staying in that sector. And that's so's a real telling telling piece of data, I think.
00:08:16
Speaker
And also, when you look at the differential between skilled migrants and domestic women, um skilled migrants make up 55% of the tech workforce. Participation for domestic women is only 14%. So that's pretty damning because let's face it, ah my experience is skilled migrants are generally more tolerant of a poor culture because they've got fewer choices in terms of alternatives. Their visa may be tied to their employer and
00:08:50
Speaker
And take lower salaries as well. So that that salary pay gap is not not being improved by that either. Good to hear that skilled migrants are making up a big chunk of our tech workforce. We need to keep allowing that to happen. I think that's a positive sign. But yeah, it's obviously impacting these these results.
00:09:09
Speaker
Well, ultimately, I think it's leadership. that if there's effective leadership, whether it's male or female, but I think it's particularly important if there's female leadership. So ah females in tech roles can see that there's a realistic career path. But unfortunately, my instinct is that they drop out of mid-career because they look around, they've changed employers a few times, they've had a number of different bosses, and I suspect they become completely disillusioned because their conclusion is almost no matter where I go, no matter no matter who I work for, it's pretty much the same everywhere.
00:09:45
Speaker
So maybe I need to have a career change while i've still got a couple of decades left yeah in me in the workforce.
NSW Government's Move Away from Outsourcing
00:09:53
Speaker
And our final article is about the New South Wales government formalising their reduction in outsourcing.
00:10:00
Speaker
So this has been something that's been happening for some time in terms of ah federal labour government trying to bring much of the the knowledge base in-house and hire people permanently, move away from outsourcing contract temporary type work.
00:10:17
Speaker
Yes, the New South Wales state government have taken the lead from the federal government. And I think this pretty much brings to the end, the golden era, if it's not already at an end, the golden era.
00:10:29
Speaker
for the labour high sector and the staffing industry in terms of getting a very good flow of income and work from governments all around the country. I'm not expecting it to die out completely, but certainly the golden era is over and I think there's going to be much, much less available for our sector from governments going forward.
Post-COVID Event Challenges and Opportunities
00:10:52
Speaker
And now you're up to date on news for the 30th of September 2025. Stay tuned now for Question of the Week.
00:11:03
Speaker
um
00:11:07
Speaker
Question of the week is, what makes an in-person event impactful? Well, I know you're raising this because we enjoyed the hospitality of the Access Group last Thursday at Earl, didn't we, at the Bells Hotel in South Melbourne?
00:11:22
Speaker
Their grand final eve luncheon has become quite an institution, let's say, in the recruitment industry calendar for those involved in the Access Group and their partners. Tell us a bit more about the event, Ross.
00:11:35
Speaker
And also Melbourne, because of course the AFL Grand Final has just been run and won. And the Access Group, I think this might have been their eighth event. It's a fundraiser for charity. So this was children's ah cancer prevention.
00:11:51
Speaker
We had a guest speaker, Jordan Lewis, four-time premiership player for the Hawthorne Hawks. He was on stage being asked questions, shared his views about a range of topics. And I asked him a question. do you remember the question I asked him at Elk?
00:12:05
Speaker
I think you asked him about post-football career. i asked him what he missed most about playing. And he said, well, after the money and the attention, it's the ah the banter in the change rooms. so He was pretty honest, wasn't he? yeah It's an interview stole um question ah you know in interview of him on stage, obviously, because some ah people are better at presenting than others. So I think that's well managed by Access, that they actually have somebody interview the footballer on stage. But yeah, it's a really enjoyable event.
00:12:36
Speaker
It's a lunch event. It tends to go kind of a bit all day. I know ah you and I probably didn't get home till dinner time. ah So it's a big event. It's in person each year in Melbourne, as you said. Big event, I suppose, for access, big event for the industry.
00:12:51
Speaker
My first impressions, as always, is that it's really well run. it is organised to, you know, allow great networking. You know, there's breaks in the presentation to mingle in the room and people definitely do that. um You know, food's good. There's lots of alcohol flowing, all the things.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, it certainly made me think about how things have changed from when I was recruiting and I'd be interested in what your experience was. But when I think back to the time when I was recruiting, lunch events were very unusual.
Evolving Event Formats Post-Pandemic
00:13:23
Speaker
It was very much... breakfast or evening, events weren't designed to impinge on the working day of candidates or clients. And in fact, when i when I think carefully, I'd say most of the events in the companies that I was part of were breakfast events.
00:13:41
Speaker
What about you? Yeah, I agree. And they were often, you know, in a big hotel, ah presentation style, perhaps a little bit less networking opportunity. So,
00:13:52
Speaker
They've definitely evolved to, I guess, be more social in the sense that people are coming together. But it does definitely feel different. I think certainly we're talking kind of post-COVID.
00:14:04
Speaker
There are definitely fewer events as would be expected. ah think the quality has improved of the events because there used to just be a lot of them. And as you said, you know, breakfast and, um you know, there the there was after work and, you know, lots of them in a row.
00:14:19
Speaker
But um we shouldn't overlook the significance of people working from home having an impact, both good and bad, on in-person events. Probably more budgets.
00:14:30
Speaker
The companies probably spend less on in-person events. So they have fewer and they try to make them higher quality. I mean... I don't know how much access spent, but when you've got a professional MC, you've got a footballer, you're paying for everyone's drinks and food, you're hiring a room, gee, I don't know, it wouldn't be much change from 15 to 20 grand, I wouldn't have thought.
00:14:55
Speaker
Easily, easily that sort of spend and they do it as a, ah you know, it's really a goodwill gesture to existing clients. Maybe there's some prospects in the room and then suppliers and,
00:15:08
Speaker
you know, media, I guess, like us, Ross. But I think the working from home is significant because it does two things. It's either people don't want to come out if they're working from home to in-person events, I've noticed. You know, you have to kind of – they always seem to be in the middle of the week. Now, this one was in the middle of the week because obviously it was pre the grand final eve public holiday. it fell on a Thursday. But, you know, you hardly ever see events on a Monday or a Friday because there's not a lot of people in the office.
00:15:34
Speaker
So they tend to sit midweek. And I find that if people are working from home and not getting a lot of social interaction, they kind of do like to come out. It's sometimes, you know, a bit of a highlight of their week that they want to get out and talk to people and connect and network.
00:15:50
Speaker
So you've kind of got two camps, people who are hiding away more perhaps because they don't want to come out. It's not their day in the city. And then those that, you know, want the full social interaction and see it as a chance to come out for the week and come into the city. Usually the events are in the city. Yeah, i certainly find that compared to when I was a recruiter, like if you had a breakfast event, people needed to be at work at nine o'clock.
00:16:11
Speaker
like you needed to finish by 8.30, quarter to nine, the latest. Otherwise people are walking out. It's a little more flexible these days in terms of what time people get to work. But I noticed at the end of the day too, that an evening event is very unusual. You'll have that late afternoon start, like a four or 4.30 or five, and the event will be over by seven or 7.30 compared to like the six to nine. That might be still applicable for Christmas drinks, but that's probably about the only time where that sort of pure evening event is held.
Impact of COVID-19 on Industry Events
00:16:45
Speaker
I can actually ah recall the very last breakfast event I went to and this is really significant because it was Greg Savage speaking at the Crown Casino in Melbourne on the 13th of March 2020. It was pretty much the last time an event like that of that size occurred because we went into lockdown not long after that, if you recall. i think it was around the 19th of March was the official first lockdown. So within a week later, the whole city was in in lockdown.
00:17:14
Speaker
And I remember that event and it did finish at nine o'clock and ah there were people still in suits in those days. Most people were dressed up pretty well. It was a big formal event in a hotel.
00:17:25
Speaker
It was the last to me, like the last bastion of that kind of event. It's never happened in that same way. And the room looking the
Dress Code Standards at Events
00:17:33
Speaker
same way. I want to touch on the dress code, Ross. The dress code? Really? Okay.
00:17:38
Speaker
I know this is kind of one of your hobby horses, Adele, go for it. It's a pet peeve for me that the dress code in our industry has dropped so dramatically. Now, I know I'm going to sound really old here and I'm going sound ah like a very conservative person, but To see people show up to you know a a formal event, it's in person, you're out in the industry, you're networking, you might be networking with clients and maybe that's the difference. You and I tend to attend more industry-specific events.
00:18:10
Speaker
In any case, you're still making impression about your own brand and I just see far too many people in very, very casual clothing. I'm talking stuff that you know you wouldn't even throw on to go the shops to you know grab a loaf of bread or something.
00:18:26
Speaker
Like super casual. I just, I don't want to see it at an event. Yeah, I've got to say the standard has definitely dropped. A couple of people there last Thursday, I've got to say. i was a little surprised by there. Going to name some names for us? No.
00:18:41
Speaker
No, no, I'm not going to name names. But it was the same at the APSCO event. I mean, I was there in my college shirt and a jacket. I know i I was on stage. But again, some people, it's like, oh yeah I know you might be in IT recruitment and t-shirts, but it's like, couldn't you look a little bit smarter? Couldn't you put a jacket on? i don't know. I sounding like a dinosaur?
00:19:04
Speaker
i I totally agree. You're not going to get any argument for me. you know Even something as simple as a t-shirt, there's t-shirts and there's t-shirts. so I had a corporate t-shirt on ah for that event. I was wearing our Recruitment News Australia t-shirt, but I still think there's a way to – it's about presentation, I think, is what we're saying here. It's not even the item of clothing. It's how you're presenting yourself and how neat and tidy you're making that look, I suppose, because you can look really scruffy in a T-shirt, of course. So think that's probably downside of, you know, making an event impactful is, you know, loosening the dress code. Like I would like to see events go back to, you know, specifying what the dress code is on the invite page.
00:19:46
Speaker
I think they did actually access. I think I remember seeing smart casual because I did just look at it to see whether I should wear my T-shirt. I still had a full suit on. So I had the T-shirt on with suit pants and a suit jacket. So ah still think there needs to be some sort of minimum standard for that.
00:20:04
Speaker
It just makes the event feel very different when everyone's dressed casually. Well, certainly there's a very big differential. I'm certainly noticing that in terms of the dress standard. Whereas back in the day,
00:20:16
Speaker
everyone was dressed pretty similarly. Everyone was in a suit. and Not necessarily everyone's wearing a tie, but these days you can have some people in a suit and other people are in it like a t-shirt and very casual shoes. And I think that's probably kind of can't quite reconcile with.
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It's being in the same room with that contrast. I agree. So it was a great event. We thank Access for our invitation and we look forward to seeing you at another similar event soon.