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Episode 141 - What advice would you give a new recruiter?
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Episode 141 - Our last for 2025. As parting words for the year we talk about the things we would tell a new recruiter to pass on some wise advice.
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Episode Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Today's episode of Recruitment News Australia is sponsored by Wingman Recruitment, helping recruitment agencies grow faster by taking admin off your plate. From sourcing to compliance, the remote professionals handle the busy work so your team can focus on revenue driving tasks.
00:00:26
Speaker
Less admin, more placements. That's the Wingman effect. Find out more at wingmangroup.com.au and click on the services tab.
News Highlights of December 16, 2025
00:00:38
Speaker
This is the news for the 16th of December 2025. I'm Ross Clennett. And I'm Adele Last.
Heroic Acts in the Industry
00:00:45
Speaker
Mainstream media this week has been dominated by the shooting fatalities at Bondi Beach in Sydney's eastern suburbs, including footage of a man who's being labelled a hero, which is rightfully so, for successfully disarming one of the gunmen.
00:00:59
Speaker
But I believe we have a different hero story right from our own industry, Ross. We do, Adele. MAP Talent Managing Director, Paul O'Shaughnessy and his younger brother, Luke, were last week each awarded a group bravery citation by the federal government in recognition of their selfless efforts in response to and horrific knife attack in the Sydney CBD six years ago. I'm not familiar with this attack, Ross. Tell us what happened. On the 13th of August 2019, Mert Ney murdered Michaela Dunn in her York Street apartment, and then he walked onto York Street and started indiscriminately stabbing people.
00:01:37
Speaker
A passerby was seriously injured with a kitchen knife. Then Ney proceeded to jump onto random vehicles, yelled profanities, and was threatening civilians. The O'Shaughnessy brothers, who were working in an overlooking building, heard the stabbed passerby screams, rushed onto the street, and along with four other civilians, chased and restrained the attacker until the police arrived.
00:02:00
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Thankfully, the stabbed passerby survived her injuries. Nay was later found guilty of the attack, sentenced to 44 years in prison, and incurred a non-parole period of 33 years.
00:02:15
Speaker
It's an incredibly courageous act. What's Paul and Luke's background in our industry? Well, originally, like many recruiters in Australia from the yeah UK, specifically the greater Manchester area in England, Paul founded IT recruiter Map Talent in 2015. Luke, he's not currently listed in the business working. He is listed as a non-executive director and he currently works at Macquarie Bank as a technical sourcing lead. in their executive search team.
00:02:45
Speaker
Paul and Luke, we salute your bravery.
Labor Market Overview
00:02:49
Speaker
Australia's unemployment rate held steady in November at 4.3% in seasonally adjusted terms. However, related data in the November labour market update showed concerning signs. ABS data showed the number of employed people fell by 21,300 last month and the number of unemployed fell And the participation rate fell by 0.2 percentage points to 66.7%.
00:03:16
Speaker
Full-time unemployment declined by a worrying 57,000 people, partly offset by part-time employment, rising by 35,000. Again, concerning youth unemployment rate, that is those between 15 and years of age, rose from October to November.
00:03:40
Speaker
There was a significant contrast between the country's two largest states with the unemployment rate in New South Wales declining from 4.3% to 3.9% in November, while Victoria's was up from 4.6% to 4.7%, although Victoria's participation rate 2.6 percentage points higher than New South Wales.
00:04:00
Speaker
I note that Sean Crick, ABS's head of Labor Statistics, said the number of employed people in Australia has risen 1.3% over the past 12 months, which is significantly below the 2% growth in population. Harry Murphy-Cruise from Oxford Economics Australia said the data suggests all is not rosy in Australia's labour markets.
00:04:23
Speaker
He goes on to say the picture is of a labour market that is gradually losing momentum. Participation is edging lower. Unemployment is creeping higher and forward indicators such as job ads suggest firms are becoming more cautious about hiring.
00:04:38
Speaker
Taken together, this points to unemployment drifting higher over the coming months, he said. So while the headline number looks steady, the trend underneath is clearly
Modern Slavery Concerns in Workplaces
00:04:47
Speaker
weakening. Modern slavery is still happening in Australian workplaces, according to a new report from the Australian Institute of Criminology.
00:04:55
Speaker
Between July 2024 and June 2025, the Australian Federal Police received 371 reports, which is about 31 a month. It's striking that nearly 80% of those reports related to abuse that had already happened and not emerging risks.
00:05:11
Speaker
In workplaces, it often shows up through deceptive job offers, coercive supervisors, threats of deportation, threats of withholding wages and passports, together with isolating workers from support networks. The report also highlights that modern slavery here is usually happening within relationships of trust. 77% of victim survivors knew their suspected perpetrator, And in many cases, that person was a family member or intimate partner, not a stranger. In fact, only 2% occurred from somebody they didn't know. Which leads on to the very unsurprising fact that a majority of victim survivors were female, under 30 and born overseas. And in many cases, there wasn't a clear distinction between their place of work and where they resided. So, for example, live-in domestic workers or people whose housing was controlled by their employer. Or workers brought to Australia by family or partners who then controlled their job and visa situation.
00:06:13
Speaker
For cases where it was known, deception was the most common way people were drawn in. False promises about work, relationships or migration. Coercion and threats were also common, including emotional abuse and threats of harm or deportation.
00:06:29
Speaker
High-risk sectors include agriculture, hospitality, cleaning, construction, security and care work. Obviously, those are industries that often rely heavily on temporary visa holders and labour hire arrangements.
00:06:43
Speaker
And from ongoing investigations, most suspected perpetrators were men, surprise, surprise, generally over 40, Many were also born overseas and often from the same regions as where the victim survivors originated from.
00:06:59
Speaker
There is some good news in that by the end of June this year, 30 defendants had been charged with hundreds of charges laid. And while some cases have progressed to trial or sentence, The report makes it clear that this is an ongoing and deeply hidden problem.
Market Focus Shift by Hays
00:07:16
Speaker
Hays has closed its Thailand office, shifting its focus to priority Southeast Asian markets. The world's sixth largest staffing firm said the move allows it to concentrate resources where it can have the greatest impact, with investment redirected to launching contracting in Malaysia and expanding higher-skilled roles aligned to future workforce needs.
00:07:37
Speaker
Hays Thailand, which opened in 2022, contributed just 1% of APAC net fees in the most recent Hays financial year. Matthew Dickerson, CEO for Hays APAC, said in a press release, Hays will now operate Southeast Asia as an integrated business centred on Malaysia and Singapore, leveraging their stronger infrastructure, scale and market maturity.
00:08:02
Speaker
Seek data shows national job ads continue to decline in November, down 0.5% month-on-month, and 1.9% year-on-year, extending the softening scene in the second half of the year.
00:08:14
Speaker
Sikh senior economist Dr Blair Chapman said 2025 has been a tale of two halves, with modest growth early on followed by steady monthly falls since August.
00:08:26
Speaker
South Australia was the standard, recording the only monthly increase and the most substantial annual growth. Declines in Victoria and New South Wales drove the national fall, manufacturing, transport and logistics, construction and trades and services saw annual growth, while healthcare and medical showed mixed results across states.
00:08:46
Speaker
Average applications per job ad remained stable nationally.
Employer Burnout and Global Challenges
00:08:50
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According to Robert Half Australia, 45% of employers across the country believe their staff are more burnt out now than they were 12 months ago.
00:08:59
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at the same time, another 41% of employers say their business leaders, including themselves, are also affected more by burnout this year than they were at the end of 2024. For employers, easily the major contributor to their own burnout is heavy workload, which was mentioned by 35% of respondents. The other four most commonly nominated factors, or between 20% and 22%, were the adoption and exploration of AI, insufficient numbers of staff, a toxic organisational culture,
00:09:32
Speaker
and global economic and geopolitical volatility. And I note that there's some similarities here, Adele, when workers reported what they believe was contributing most towards their burnout. Insufficient staffing, the number one factor, mentioned by 33% of respondents, followed by a lack of flexible work arrangements, 29% mentioned that And 26% mentions ineffective and unempathetic leadership.
00:10:03
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So for me, looking at this, the clear conclusion is that heavy workloads, twin with insufficient staffing, are simply reinforcing each other. It's creating a cycle that drives burnout.
00:10:14
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unless organisations address staffing levels, workloads will remain unsustainable. And this will make burnout not just a temporary end of year issue, but a structural one for many employers. And potentially a great opportunity for recruitment agencies in that temporary and contract space.
00:10:33
Speaker
Stay tuned now for question of the week and wait around at the end of the episode to hear our farewell for 2025.
Advice for New Recruiters
00:10:41
Speaker
Our question this week, Ross, is a philosophical one.
00:10:44
Speaker
If a new recruiter came to you for advice today, what would you tell them? About joining the industry and becoming a recruiter. Yes. Okay, I would say your knowledge and expertise is more important, more important than you think. And I say this because, well, I'm kind of biased because obviously I'm in the content game and I'm a trainer and coach. But unfortunately, 95% of recruiters in our industry
00:11:17
Speaker
get by on kind of the minimum amount of industry knowledge and expertise. And if you're a recruiter who's really prepared to go the extra mile, to learn more, to challenge yourself to learn more about the sector that you recruit in, the types of candidates that you recruit, the jobs that you recruit, to understand more about the labour market and be able to for that sector that you recruit in and to communicate that in a way that really adds value to candidates and clients. Like I just think that puts you ahead of almost everybody else. It's not that hard. So this is a classic example of the 1% rule. Just a small advantage can make a big difference. So that's the one immediately springs to mind. What about for you?
00:12:04
Speaker
I have a similar one when I answer this question and it is about choosing a speciality, choosing to specialise in an industry, and I think it's similar in the similar vein that you're talking about, I would give advice to go narrow and deep.
00:12:20
Speaker
Get to know a particular industry sector, group of roles really, really well. Don't try to be everything to everyone and spread yourself really thin. So, My first thought around it is very similar to yours. Another thing within that same vein is I would build a network around this really early.
00:12:38
Speaker
i think I personally didn't understand the value of the network until much later and I wasted time at the start. So i didn't realise how important it was to keep connecting and building the network early on so that by the time you became very well known in that network, the job got easier. So if I could do it all again, that's something I think I would do much earlier, build the network and build it consciously.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah. Look, I mean, I can remember when I moved from having worked in the Sydney market for eight years, and then I went to South Australia to start the Adelaide business for recruitment solutions. And of course, I knew that I'd be doing BD from scratch. I'd never visited Adelaide, let alone um had any connections there. But even then, it was still, I remember how hard it was just, not just making the calls, I was happy to make the calls, but how difficult it was to sort of get started to build a foundation again. It was a reminder of perhaps what I'd taken for granted in the eight years that I'd spent building up my Sydney network.
00:13:40
Speaker
You sort of feel like an alien. You're like just dropped into the planet and you know nobody, right? Yeah, it was it was kind of a bit like that. My second one, i suppose it's kind of related to that, nothing worth having comes easily, which means in recruiter speak, that often the very best clients are the ones who are the hardest to get, the hardest to have the initial conversation, the hardest to convince to have a meeting,
00:14:05
Speaker
the hardest to get the first job from. i think that springs to mind because when I went to Adelaide and it took me six months to get a meeting at Normandy Mining and when I finally got there, the head of HR said to me, okay, you've got 15 minutes to impress me, go. and it was like, huh? So, um and thankfully I did impress in that meeting and they became a pretty valuable client pretty quickly, but it did take me months to get through the door. And I think, again, that's where not enough recruiters are prepared to go back to the well again and again and again to try and break through to get that meeting and really demonstrate the desire to work with a particular person or company. Yeah, I think we have that kind of immediate gratification society nowadays, right? Like we want to have you know, an immediate response to things. And if we don't get it, we move on pretty quickly. So there's an element of that, you know, we call it resilience, you know, ah going back again and again. You're absolutely right. That's needed in, you know, in spades to be a great recruiter, I
Mentorship Importance in Recruitment
00:15:11
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think.
00:15:11
Speaker
and When I think about another one for me, a game changer was to have a mentor, have a sponsor, have somebody that was on your side. And I'm not talking about ah a life coach, career coach. I'm not talking about somebody that you actually pay. i actually think it's more of a relationship with somebody who you admire and respect, who can call you out, who can ask you the tough questions, who can help guide you through some of the tough choices you'll have to make and decisions that you'll have to kind of be confronted with through your career in the space. So a mentor is a hugely valuable asset, I think, in any industry, but particularly in this one, if you can find somebody who's got some recruitment knowledge as well.
00:15:54
Speaker
Sure. Well, look, I mean, to that point, my very first manager, even though she was my manager, Kim, in London, she really became a mentor for me living away from home because I was on the other side of the world at the age of 22 and a half. And didn't,
00:16:11
Speaker
you know it took a long while to adapt and she was there to effectively mentor me, almost kind of mother me through that time. And I'm pretty sure that if she'd not been there, I wouldn't have got through. And then when I got back to Australia, I was fortunate that, you know, Bromham, my first manager, was similar. And then Greg Savage, as people would know if they've read my blogs, made a massive difference in terms of the way he helped me. So yes, I fully endorse that.
00:16:37
Speaker
I had an opposing sort of mentor. You said one that sort of mothered you and looked after you. I had one that kept telling me, suck it up. You know, it it doesn't get easier and you can't use that as an excuse. And, you know, even so far as things like, you know you're a you're a diverse woman, you know, you're going to have it harder than everyone else. So you've got to just work harder. And, you know, it kicked me up the bum lots of times, but geez, I needed it. Okay. All right. Well, that certainly sounds like you responded.
00:17:06
Speaker
Definitely. What else have you got? What do you think about this? hindsight, I didn't quite realise at the time how fortunate I was to work in two very strong meritocracies when I started in recruitment So firstly, at Hayes in London, although it was known as a Accountancy Personnel then.
00:17:24
Speaker
And then when I came back to Australia and worked for Recruitment Solutions, that I think it was only after I wasn't in meritocracies that I realised how critical that was because I was surrounded by... hardworking, successful people. And I learned so much from them just by watching them operate and the way in which the those respective cultures were high performance cultures. As I've learned subsequently from my work in the industry, basically that's more the exception than the rule. And that's not to say other cultures are bad, but other cultures are just average.
00:18:04
Speaker
If you're a new recruiter and you realize that you're in a culture that's not a high-performing one or tolerates mediocrity, then my advice would be take what you can and get out. And I don't mean that in a stealing way, but ultimately those first two, three years are critical for for your long-term success in recruitment. And if you're wasting it in an environment that's not a high-performance one, then really you're just throwing money away.
00:18:35
Speaker
And this is a struggle, I think, also with you know our work-from-home culture, our hybrid working culture, because as we know, it's had that impact to culture overall in businesses,
00:18:46
Speaker
but more so the the work ethic culture. You know, I think a lot of companies will say, oh, no, our culture is really healthy. You know, when we get together, we meet, you know, we meaningfully get together. We book meetings on the days we're in together. We collaborate. We have fun. We celebrate.
00:19:01
Speaker
But that's only part of the culture. And what you're describing there is that other half, the part of the culture that isn't really seen, um or spoken about but is very much the thread that that's underlying it all and you might not be seeing that if you're not in with your peers in an office environment or being exposed to them in client visits or um having really good deep conversations about why they do things not just observing and and standing back so i think you're right being exposed to the right culture but the right parts of the culture is so critical And also the other thing that sprung to mind as you're talking is just it's a team game. Like recruitment is fun because it's a team game. And if you're a lone wolf, of course, you can still make money as a recruiter, but I just don't think there's as much enjoyment in it. And certainly as someone who's starting out in recruitment, join a team, join like-minded people. I just think so and have such fond memories of my 20s by working in strong team environments.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, I could just see you in London, full head of hair, downtown London, right? That's right. The world was your oyster. Oh, it was. All right, so anything else
Balancing Work Stress with Hobbies
00:20:14
Speaker
that comes to mind? Yeah, look, it's a stressful job. There's no doubt about it. There's an element of stress to this job, which is like unlike any other. We are the only industry with a product that changes its mind, that has a mind of its own, and it can be really stressful. So my last bit of advice to anyone starting out is to make sure you stay connected to the things that that de-stress you. Make sure you have a hobby. Make sure you have a sport. Make sure there is an outlet for you to have outside of work that de-stresses you. And don't let that go. Don't compromise on that and say, well i'm working really hard right now. I'm going to give up my my you know basketball or give up my sport because I'm not going to do it.
00:20:51
Speaker
That's actually really critical to the balance of being making you a good recruiter. Yeah, I agree. And i that is kind of almost my final point as well. Have an eye to the future. And those things you do outside of work can really help that next step. That if you decide it's not in the recruitment industry, or even if it is, but in a different role, then that could help. So my own example is that I went to Toastmasters. So I was a member of the Toastmasters club. So for those of you who don't know, that helps with public speaking. So I attended a meeting, oh no, probably two-hour meeting twice a month.
00:21:27
Speaker
And that made a big difference. So I was doing that in my 20s and early 30s as a recruiter. And although I didn't know it at the time, that really helped me when it came time for me to think about the next step. So I had 14 years as a recruiter, I wanted to do something different. And so that's where becoming a trainer and coach and speaker came.
00:21:51
Speaker
ah happened and because I'd had that foundation in Toastmasters which really was a great sort of stress relief for me as a recruiter that helped make that transition much smoother than it would otherwise have been.
00:22:05
Speaker
And it's clearly apparent in your delivery as well that you had that Toastmasters training which obviously helped in the job as well. Well, and also that I was a student theatre actor, which definitely helped as well, a although that was know quite a few years before. But again, all those different things you do can help create a platform for who knows what in the future. So it's a very long way of saying, don't go home and just watch Netflix. There are many other things that you can do that will help you and in in ways you perhaps may not anticipate.
Holiday Plans and Podcast Wrap-up
00:22:42
Speaker
And that was our final episode of Recruitment News Australia for 2025. i myself will be away through January. I am embarrassed to say that as a person of Indian descent, i am for the very first time travelling India to ah research my ah heritage and my roots and I'm looking forward to being away and, you know, being out of country, I suppose.
00:23:08
Speaker
Right. And I've got to ask you this, Adele, as someone of Indian descent, do you eat traditional Indian cuisine or are are you too brought up with or used to the Indian food that Australians buy in Indian restaurants in Australia?
00:23:28
Speaker
I'm very pleased to say that I do eat quite traditional Indian cuisine. and in fact, I can cook most of it as well. But I'm sure you'll be very disappointed to hear that if you are ordering butter chicken, you're probably not eating a very authentic Indian cuisine.
00:23:45
Speaker
Oh, no, I'm shocked. My son would be even more shocked because that's his favourite meal that I cook, butter chicken in the Thermomix. So if he went to India and was offered the various cuisines that are available there and he couldn't find butter chicken, it would be very confusing for him.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, I look forward to reporting back to you in the new year about all of the fabulous new food and tips and tricks on cooking that I've picked up while I'm there. Tell me about your break, Ross. What do you what have you got planned? ah We'll be doing a driving holiday. We're heading north on the 22nd, stopping in Wagga and then finishing up ah in Newcastle where my in-laws are. We'll be there for a week. And then we have a holiday house booked in the Woi Woi area ah near Edelong Beach, which sadly, there've been some fires that have destroyed property there recently. So hopefully things will be okay. when we get there. But I'll be back in early January training. I'm an open water swimmer, Adele, and I compete in events across summer. And my big focus this year is a 12-kilometre swim from Capel Sound to Sorrento on Saturday, the 14th of February. So my goal is to swim those 12 kilometres in under four hours.
00:24:59
Speaker
Wow. Good luck with that, Ross. So thanks everyone for your support. ah We've loved your comments and feedback throughout 2025. We'd especially appreciate as a Christmas gift to Adele and I, if you haven't already given us a review or rating to jump on to your nearest podcast app and give us a five-star review or rating.
00:25:23
Speaker
In January, we will not be having news, but we will still be having ah RNA published. There's a special summer series on Gen Z featuring the Klenet children and the last children. I guarantee it's going to be entertaining. and worthwhile listening. So make sure you look out for the episodes in January. And Adele and I will be back with fresh news and fresh questions of the week in February 2026. So have a safe and happy festive season. And we look forward to 2026 and Recruitment News Australia throughout the year. See you then.
00:26:02
Speaker
Merry Christmas, everyone. r and a out