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Episode 8 - Sam and Max Hit the Road
2k Plays7 months ago
We clamped down another podcast, everyone! Matt and Roses go all out, discussing the LucasArts classic: Sam and Max Hit the Road.
Email us! [email protected]
Games Discussed:
- Who Pressed Mute on Uncle Marcus
- The Exit 8
- Sam and Max Hit the Road
- The Secret of Monkey Island
- Toe Jam and Earl
- King’s Quest
- Sam and Max Save the World
- Sam and Max Beyond Time and Space
- Sam and Max: The Devil's Playhouse
- Sam and Max: This Time it's Virtual
Recommended
Transcript
The Allure of Coffee and Scented Humor
00:00:00
Speaker
Coffee smells like the best. Is the best smell. It's like a therapeutic smell. I need like a perfume that smells like coffee. That would bring all the boys to the yard. That would be disgusting. How dare you? If you just sprayed some coffee on yourself and then went about your day.
00:00:23
Speaker
How dare you? This is a one million dollar idea. Hey, do you smell my new perfume? Smells like flat white. It's old coffee. It's an Americano, you know, water junk coffee.
00:00:41
Speaker
I rub some coffee grounds in my armpits and then I get real sweaty so that they get the smell really, it really brings out the effervescence. I took a sip of coffee, right then, and nearly spat it out. Just, ugh, no. That is akin to how you would put on the perfume.
Introducing 'Save Your Game' with Matt and Roses
00:01:23
Speaker
Hey everybody and welcome back to save your game. I am your host Matt Aucamp with me pushing up roses. How's it going roses?
00:01:33
Speaker
Why don't I get a special introduction? I always call you special boy Matt Aucamp. Why don't I ever get anything? I can't believe this. I didn't give either of us a nickname this time. You know what? I think this is the energy we'll bring into this episode. We don't deserve nicknames. We have to earn them this episode. Oh my god. This is the episode where we prove that we earned our nicknames. What, to each other? To the world. To ourselves, to the world, to each other.
00:02:04
Speaker
Okay, so I'm gonna put this out there then. People can write in and think of if I've earned a good nickname, they'll tell it to me and I will be reading them. And if you say something sassy, I will come after you. Just know that.
00:02:22
Speaker
Do you dance during the intro music? We play. This is a thing that most podcasts don't do. And this surprised our last guest.
Dancing to Podcast Tunes and Live Music Recording
00:02:31
Speaker
But Zencaster lets us play our music like as we're recording, like live. And I always I always dance to the intro. It's just like a little like double fist pump kind of like body turn.
00:02:45
Speaker
I kind of like stare and disassociate until it's time to talk. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It does. What have you been playing this week?
'Who Pressed Mute on Uncle Marcus?' Gameplay Woes
00:03:01
Speaker
I, upon, again, your recommendation and Alistair's recommendation, who pressed mute on Uncle Marcus? I was playing that on the PS4.
00:03:13
Speaker
because I looked intriguing to me. It's an FMV mystery game. Yeah, go ahead.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, very, very cinematic. It is a don't get me wrong, it is a game extremely reliant on like observation and like cut scenes and stuff. So I haven't beaten it yet because I'm infuriated. Okay, so this is a game where you kind of have to lose, play it again, collect more evidence,
00:03:43
Speaker
see if you can prove who is behind this murder, and then do it again. Would you call that like a time loop game? What would you call that mechanic? Well, there's no acknowledgement that time has been looping. So I think it's just a, I think it's like a
00:04:04
Speaker
suspension of disbelief game, right? Because you were using clues that you got on previous run-throughs of the game, but there's absolutely no, there's nothing supernatural about it, so there's no mention of the fact that you've been repeating.
00:04:24
Speaker
That's true. So mostly just trial trial by error. Trial by fire. Like that's that's kind of what you have to do. So what's really nice about the game is you would think what's really nice about it is because you do have to replay it to get all of the evidence to to be able to accuse people. You can skip cutscenes, right? At least as you can skip. Mine is having issues skipping the cutscenes. Boy.
00:04:51
Speaker
And I don't know why and I've had to sit through. So there is a cutscene and I think you'll know what I'm talking about where the main character Abigail, she's kind of the detective. You're you're playing as Abigail. She gets really overwhelmed. And she's like, I'm just not cut out for this. Do you remember that? Yeah, so yeah, towards the end.
00:05:12
Speaker
There's like a breach in trust at some point. I have to sit through that scene every time. It's not a short scene, my friend. It is not a short scene. So I'm a little de-sensitized. What am I trying to say here, Matt? It's not incentivized. I have no incentive. De-incentivized, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know what I was trying to say there. We got there eventually. We got there, we got there.
00:05:42
Speaker
together as a team, as friends. Yeah. I mean, we should have a buddy cop film. We can figure things out. It should be a buddy cop film where one of us forgets a word and the other one helps them figure it out. And like, that's the whole movie. That's the whole thing. And we did it.
00:05:59
Speaker
You're, you know, that thing where, oh man, he has to come into the station. Cause like he broke a, he broke a, what's it called? Oh my God. It's a, he broke a law. Yeah. And so now we got it. We have to put handcuffs on him and bring him. What's that called? Arresting him. Yes. We're arresting. Oh, he's gone. High five and then freeze frame. He ran away while we were trying to figure out how to arrest him.
00:06:27
Speaker
That's how
Solving the Poison Mystery in Uncle Marcus Game
00:06:28
Speaker
I'd make a game. Again, I'm not really inspired to play it because there's a redundancy issue for me there. Also, there's a suspension of disbelief thing happening. To just give you guys a brief premise is your Uncle Marcus has been poisoned by somebody in the family.
00:06:51
Speaker
And for some reason, we can't treat it. And I'm sorry, we've seen way too many episodes of House to know that that ain't true. And your Uncle Marcus is, Uncle Marcus is just to give people. Uncle Marcus is played by Andy Buckley, who plays David Watless in The Office. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good trivia point. Thank you. So now I'm having trouble believing it, right? Right.
00:07:20
Speaker
But you know what, it's very classic live acted FMV, where it is very, this is unbelievable, but it is very fun.
00:07:28
Speaker
right you're in a trivia you're you're having a trivia night for your mom's birthday via zoom and or like a zoom like thing and yeah you have to try and interrogate your family members in a way that they won't realize you're interrogating them so you can figure out who poisoned uncle marcus and then uh also at some point what poison he ingested so you can recommend him right here
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, the right anecdote because there's no, there's just no other way. He's got three bottles of chemicals and he's like, I don't know which one to drink. You have to tell me edit. Do you tell him the wrong one? He dies in front of you. It's very dramatic. I'm just going to put that out there. The worst ending is when you decide to not trust Uncle Marcus. So like any good murder mystery, you can decide not to trust the victim that comes forward. They could be a femme fatale that, you know,
00:08:22
Speaker
you can decide not to trust him. Sparking the worst bad ending. And I don't mean worst in quality. I mean, worst as though your character's life has been destroyed, essentially. If you choose this ending, I'm just like, oh, God, everything's gone wrong. Which I don't get why. Why would you? I just don't know why you would tell everybody, right? Like I don't either. He has secretly
00:08:47
Speaker
He has secretly asked for your help on this. Yeah. So if you don't trust him and you hang up on him and then he dies, why would you go to your family and say, hey, this guy, hey, remember Uncle Marcus who just died? He tried to, he asked me to save him and I said no. So actually it's a little bit my fault. Like, why would you tell anybody?
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's so weird. But like, I, I am gonna finish it. Like I said, I'm a little like, I don't want to. I've also not finished it. I've played it through about four or five times and I have not finished it. I enjoy it. But yeah, it is a little exhausting. Yeah, I would say that too. What have you been playing Matt?
Unveiling 'Exit 8': A Dive into Psychological Horror
00:09:26
Speaker
I've been playing a game, and I'm gonna have to give people a spoiler warning here, because I think this is a game that might be better the less you know about it, and that includes the premise. So the game is called, so I'll speak vaguely about it first, and then I'll give people a warning, and yeah. So the game is called Exit 8, and it is a very, very simple,
00:09:56
Speaker
potentially very short game that's got like a really subtle psychological horror element to it. And it's like a first person, it's a very specific kind of puzzle. And your whole goal is you find yourself like in an underground sort of, looks like a subway tunnel.
00:10:24
Speaker
I see that, which is already freaking me out. Like, no, thank you. And you have to exit through exit eight. And that's the whole game. That's terrifying to me. OK, so yeah, it's very simple. Like, you look at a screenshot and it's just a hallway. There's a man walking past you. There's posters on the wall. There's the sounds of a subway. It's just like white walls. That's it.
00:10:53
Speaker
And now here's the point where I'm going to, I'm not going to spoil the whole game, but I'm going to say the premise. So if you are already intrigued, so fast forward like two minutes. Yeah. And then, and then we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll stop talking about the game, but okay. So here's the premise you all the game tells you is.
00:11:14
Speaker
to go through exit, walk through exit eight. And you're walking down this hallway and there's, you find that it's like at the end of the hallway is just the hallway again. It loops around. Yeah.
00:11:27
Speaker
So I don't know what happens if you keep walking around the hallway, but instead I decided to follow the other passenger from, who was the, or the other pedestrian who was walking past me. And at some point he stops to look at his cell phone and then you look at the wall and the wall says, if you see any anomaly, turn around. If you don't see an anomaly, keep going. Exit through exit eight.
00:11:54
Speaker
So then you walk down the hallway and if you see something different, anything different, and it can be tiles on the floor change, it can be a door is missing, or it can be something like at one point a river of blood
00:12:13
Speaker
splashed down the hallway and came at me. Another point, the man started walking towards me super fast. And when he reached me, it went black, like I died. That's frightening. I don't like it when video game NPCs walk fast up to me. I don't like that. I don't like it.
00:12:32
Speaker
So some of these are funny, a lot of them are scary, and because you're paying so close of attention, when a big thing happens, it is terrifying. If you turn the corner and something is completely different, you yell. It's so scary. And again, it's just very subtle. Monsters don't pop out and eat you. There's not blood dripping from the ceiling.
00:13:02
Speaker
Everything's kind of subtle, but it's incredibly scary and, okay, people can come back now. That's awesome though, that sounds really great. I think I'll play it. It's such a simple premise and you could beat the game in 10 minutes, but it took me about two hours. Wow. That's a good bit of play time too, I like that. Okay, so, Roses.
LucasArts and the Legacy of Sam & Max
00:13:28
Speaker
Matt. What's our big topic today? What are we talking about?
00:13:32
Speaker
Today, we are going to, by mutual decision-making, we are going to discuss a retro adventure game for you guys today, because I know that's why we're here. But let me ask you, Matt, and I hope you answer correctly. What is the most famous LucasArts game that you can think of? Huh. Most famous LucasArts game that I can think of. Most well-known.
00:14:02
Speaker
I think it's gotta be, I wanna answer this correctly. There was a game made by Steven Spielberg, but it's not that one. And we're not counting all the Star Wars games, I'm guessing. No, no, we're not, no, no, no, no. It's gotta be Sam and Max. No, what? No, you're, ugh! It's gotta be. Matt. What is the most famous, oh, Indiana Jones.
00:14:29
Speaker
No, that's not even close. You think it's Monkey Island? Ugh. You're supposed to say Monkey Island so I could be like, no, you fool. We're not talking about Monkey Island. We're talking about Sam and Max. OK, let's try it. Let's try again. Let's try again. Ow. No, the moment's passed. The moment's passed. You messed up. No, no, no. Give me another chance. Give me another shot, Coach. OK. All right. OK. OK. Ready? What's the most well-known? Sam and Max.
00:14:59
Speaker
fuck okay hold on no i could get this i could get no you've lost you've lost the game this is why you never finish any games we're actually not very good at them and we're not very smart no so like we we had kind of discussed like we don't want to do we don't want to discuss games that have been discussed you know ad nauseam
00:15:21
Speaker
And even though we love them, we love them, the Monkey Island games. I love me some Grim Fandango. I even love me some King's Quest games. I don't think Matt does, but I have no shame. I like them. Yeah, no, I love some of them. I like most of them.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. We will not be, we wanna talk about the games that like came after that. So instead of talking about, let's say, Secret of Monkey Island from LucasArts or even Grim, we're gonna talk about Sam and Max. And I know that one is well known to adventure gamers, but I wouldn't say it is LucasArts, LucasArts is, LucasArts. LucasArts, I wouldn't say it's LucasArts either.
00:16:07
Speaker
It's not Lucas' arts. No, Lucas had nothing to do with this. Sorry, Lucas. He's not even a very good artist. Whoa, okay. Shots fired. I wouldn't say that that is their big hitter. Obviously, it came back for Telltale, but in terms of the LucasArts gameography, I would not say Sam & Max is the biggest hitter.
00:16:31
Speaker
It's the biggest media franchise. We'll talk about this in a minute. Why don't we throw up the interstitial music and talk about Sam and Max Hit the Road. All right, let's do it. Here it comes, Swanky Max Amino. My favorite game.
00:17:08
Speaker
I'm back. Yay! How was your break? Did you spill anything? No, what are you talking about? Just curious. No, of course not. Okay. No, I went and got my coffee and like very quickly
00:17:26
Speaker
And then I came back with it in my hand very quickly and not a drop spilled all over the floor. Well, Matt, that's great. So you've got so many talents. You can jump real high. You can run real fast. You're very strong and you never spill things ever. No. How was your break? Uh, you know.
00:17:51
Speaker
I was there. Basically you could just look at me as kind of a robot type. Like when I'm not on as pushing up roses, I'm just off. I'm just like staring.
00:18:07
Speaker
And then it was showtime. It's like, hey, everyone pushing up roses here. So we're going to talk about Sam and Max hit the road. And one of the things I wanted to bring up first was that the reason I would have answered the way I did, not just because I knew this was with the game we were going to be talking about, but also
00:18:25
Speaker
It's their biggest, I mean, besides Indiana Jones who, I don't know if you can count because he has plenty of other games that happened before and after and completely unrelated to the LucasArts games, or at least the two LucasArts adventure, point and click adventure games. Sam and Max, this kind of launched a franchise that has
00:18:54
Speaker
that just kind of grew or it grew but it stayed at this like low level for a very long time, right? It started as a comic book and then this game came out and then it became a Saturday morning cartoon show and then there were more games. Now there's a VR game. Like I think a lot more people know Sam and Max than you might think.
00:19:22
Speaker
Sure. I think they do now I would still call it a bit of a cult classic in terms of franchise. Because like if I asked like my average kind of non gamer friend if they know what Monkey Island is, they will say yes. I asked him about stem and Max will be like what?
00:19:40
Speaker
I think everybody kind of knows what Monkey Island is. It seems there's a pattern of which game people started with on their adventure game journey, and it seems to be secret. But yeah, even King's Quest, even if I say, have you heard of King's Quest? They'll say yes. But Sam and Max, not so much. Even with its kind of reboot, which I did not play. When were you first exposed to Sam and Max?
00:20:10
Speaker
So I played it in my teens when I had the internet. And I was on Home of the Underdogs. And I'm like, what is this adventure game? This adventure game looks super cool. And it was my later teens, I want to say. I was not young when I played the game, but I was not
00:20:35
Speaker
I played it at a time when it was kind of hard to run, if that makes sense. It was still a little bit laggy. I'm trying to think of really what... It was either... Maybe it was my early 20s. I don't quite know. It was a long time ago though that I was exposed to it. I've known about this game for a very long time. I replayed it when it came out again on GOG.
00:20:58
Speaker
And my first experience with it was not great. I was very enamored with it because it's that kind of game that I loved, that I sought out. It was a very cartoony style adventure game that looked funny. So those were the games that I was really seeking out.
00:21:19
Speaker
And so I was just I was very enchanted with what it looked like. And it looked funny. And it was like a detective thing, which is great. That's that's my jam. Only to find out that this game is hard. I and I to refresh because I played the game multiple times now to refresh. I watched a full long play on it. I'm like, oh, I don't like these. I don't like some of these puzzles. Right.
00:21:49
Speaker
However, you can forgive that because it is such an intensely good quality game. So I've been playing Secret of Monkey Island on my parents' computer for a while, and then I remember one of my weird cousins.
00:22:09
Speaker
I had a lot of cousins and- Okay, dad? Are they still with us? No, I guess they still have a lot of cousins, but I don't have the relationship with them I used to. There's a whole branch of the family, became weird, alt-right conspiracy theorists, very strange. Anyway, so one of those guys, I remember him pulling me into his room and being like, oh, you gotta check this out. And he played Sam and Max for me. Aww.
00:22:38
Speaker
I, at first, he was a little older than me, so I didn't quite get the things that he was laughing at. I was like, I don't quite understand, but it made me wanna play the game, and then I realized, oh wait, this is the same people who made that Monkey Island game I play a lot. That's how I transitioned from just liking one adventure game to being the guy I am today. But yeah, so then when I played it myself,
00:23:07
Speaker
It was, it's just so funny, especially when you're a younger, like when you're, you know, in your pre-teens, it was a hilarious, a hilarious game, yeah. The younger I was, the less funny I thought it was.
00:23:26
Speaker
But when I was watching a playthrough, I was like, oh, I love this cynical, not cynical, but just salmon, especially Max's kind of weird sense of humor. I would call this game like a full parody comedic game, a comedy game, just because it is, you know, it's very, very dragnet, dragnetty, very get smart. That's kind of the kind of humor that they kind of play in from that.
00:23:51
Speaker
So I actually, a lot of people, I might be in the minority here. A lot of people did like the humor when they were younger. I think it was not appreciated by me until later. Well, as we go through it, I think I can talk about some of the things that I
00:24:09
Speaker
Um, some of the things that I liked as a kid, and I think it was a little bit more like the slapsticky, absurdist, slapsticky and absurdist stuff. And now that I'm older, I've noticed I play it and I see a lot of jokes that I didn't see as a kid. Um, a lot of the cultural references and sort of the, I don't, I want to say
The Origins of Sam & Max in Comics
00:24:30
Speaker
intellectual. It's the sort of like.
00:24:33
Speaker
dumb humor for smart people. Like it's, it is, uh, like, like, like 30 Rock, right? Like this is, these jokes are so dumb, but you have to be a little smart to understand them. Yeah. Especially some of these references. Like I, there's a, um,
00:24:54
Speaker
I forgot the name of the movie, but when he says, you know, this means something, that's the mashed potatoes reference from the space movie, why am I blanking out? I'm sure I'll get emails about this, but that reference really isn't for kids. If you're a kid, you're not gonna get that reference. That is a reference that you're gonna get later on. Let's talk about the history of this game and then we'll describe the game a little bit. So obviously made by LucasArts, one of their classic
00:25:21
Speaker
games it was design okay so there was this artist that worked for LucasArts named Steve Purcell Steve Purcell had been and roses feel free to I'm sure you know a lot of this history too so feel free to jump in and take the stage for me at any point yeah go for it go for it
00:25:39
Speaker
Um, so this guy, Steve Purcell, he was, he was a comic book artist and commercial illustrator. And he, he worked, uh, he worked on the concept art for a lot of video games. Like he did the concept art for Toe Jam and Earl. If you remember that Sega game. Yeah, I, yeah. I, I just learned that recently because I, uh, I started playing it on my virtual machine, uh, those Joe Jam and Earl. Yeah. And I'm like, what is this? And then I saw Steve Purcell's name. I'm like, what?
00:26:10
Speaker
Now, Toe Jam and Earl is not an adventure game, but I think it's got enough weirdness and narrative that maybe we should maybe do an episode about Toe Jam and Earl at some point. That game spans genres. Who even knows? What even is that? I know. Exactly. And just like adventure games, it's hard to define what they are. So, hey, whatever. Toe Jam and Earl can be one.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I actually recently saw Steve Purcell's name because I've been rereading chronologically all the old X-Men books. He did an issue of New Mutants in the late 80s. It was really cool to see his name pop up. Yeah, that's awesome.
00:27:00
Speaker
artist who was working for LucasArts, and he had these, yeah, he had this comic book that he used to do. The origin of it is him and his little brother, they used to make comic books when they were little kids, and his little brother did this actually kind of serious buddy cop comic called With a Dog.
00:27:25
Speaker
and a rabbit, and the dog was named Sam, and the rabbit was named Max, and he would leave unfinished comics around the house, and Steve, being like a bullying older brother, would take the comics, and he would finish them in a way that totally made fun of them, and that's how Sam and Max kinda got their meta-textual jokes. Yeah, there's a snark, there's a kinda goofy,
00:27:51
Speaker
and making fun of each other all the time. So like, they would accidentally call each other the wrong names. And they would, they'd be like, hey, Sam, I mean, Max. Call Max his own name, but they would.
00:28:07
Speaker
he would take the comics and be like, hey, my perspective is, Sam, your perspective is all wrong in this panel. Or he'd take the comics and be like, why are you dressed differently than you were in the last panel? That's so cute, isn't it? I'm sure it was slightly annoying for the younger brother. For the younger brother, yeah. But I actually think that sounds so cute and kind of creative. Absolutely. I feel like that's inspiring.
00:28:32
Speaker
So then on one of Steve Purcell's birthdays, his younger brother signed over the rights to these two characters to him. Just like on a piece of paper, I think, that just says like, you have the rights to Sam and Max forever. Right? Wow. That's so sweet. I mean, Steve must have really taken to these characters. He must have really liked him that much, you know? I mean, he's still engaging with them now, 30 years later.
00:29:02
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah so what Steve was working at LucasArts. They had so they had their scum engine they had basically like, rather than coding a game from scratch every time they had an engine where you would plug assets in and you would just design your adventure game through the scum engine.
00:29:23
Speaker
when they would have new programmers in, they would go through what was called SCUM-U, like this little training program where they'd have to make a game using SCUM, and the assets they had to use to make their little training games were little pixelated Sam and Max.
00:29:43
Speaker
And that's how Sam and Max kind of became the mascots of LucasArts. So all the artists would sneak pictures of Sam and Max into the backgrounds of different games. And when LucasArts had a newsletter,
00:29:59
Speaker
Steve Purcell was asked to do a comic strip in the newsletter and he just did Sam and Max comics. Because Steve Purcell, yeah, he'd been writing these Sam and Max comics for years and years. They're- Yeah, well before the game came out, for sure. And they're all so, his original Sam and Max comics are so out of print. If you look them up on eBay or whatever, in fact, I'll do that right now and we'll see what
00:30:29
Speaker
Sam and Max freelance police. How much do these things cost? Yeah, I'm very curious. Not as bad as I thought. So how much do you think like issue number one of Sam and Max freelance police is? If you're saying it's not bad, I don't like 20 bucks. No, it's $110.
00:30:50
Speaker
That's not bad to you? I'm sorry. I am not in the comic world. I am not. But maybe I would. Well, here's why. Here's what I here's the thing that I am very surprised at. The trade paperback, the collection of all the same and Max comics. 1992 epic trade paperbacks, special color collection.
00:31:12
Speaker
It's only $50. Oh, that's pretty good. That's actually really good. I like that. I thought these things were hundreds of dollars, and they definitely were at some point, but it might just be certain editions of them or whatever.
00:31:27
Speaker
And yeah, and that stuff ebbs and flows all the time like it's always kind of fluctuating so that honestly I think the comic I'm an artist myself and I think it looks so good. It is just such a, I don't know I love these character designs. Yeah, I love them so much that
00:31:46
Speaker
Steve Purcell collaborated recently on a little max plushy toy. There might've been a Sam one too. And I think that one's out of, that one was limited. It's out of stock and you have to pay a lot of money to get it. But I did buy the Sam one years ago and I just love it. So I love the design. It would make a great tattoo. Like I love these designs like so much.
00:32:11
Speaker
So I found Sam and Max Surf in the Highway, which I think is the full collection. That I found on eBay for $150. That's still not bad. Yeah, it's not as, again, not as bad as I was thinking. The limited edition, when they released, re-released, they re-released it with the Telltale games, and that's like 300 bucks.
00:32:39
Speaker
Okay, that's fair. Anyway, so just a little digression. So then at LucasArts, they decided to make an actual game. They made Sam and Max hit the road, which was like,
00:32:58
Speaker
it would take some concepts from the Sam & Max comics, and it would send them on a big road trip around the USA. An amazing thing that Steve Purcell did, and then we'll talk about the game and then we can talk about what happened to Sam & Max after that, maybe when we're done. Like at the end here, Steve Purcell did something really smart, which is he held the license.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Through all these things, like rather than letting, he licensed Sam and Max to LucasArts. They like borrowed the license from him and like he kept ownership of Sam and Max and he still has it to this day, which is incredible. That's rare. That's very rare. It just kind of reminds me of like, you know, Ron Gilbert not having the rights to Monkey Island or what didn't have, does he have the rights again?
00:33:50
Speaker
He does not, he had to license them from Disney when he made Return to Monkey Island, yeah. Yeah, so it's actually kind of rare that an artist would keep their license, but I'm so glad for it, honestly, because I don't know, don't misunderstand. I believe in the public domain. I believe in that. When a license runs out, you can use it. I believe in that. I'm not like a Disney weirdo type of person.
00:34:20
Speaker
But they're just, I just, I don't know, he's still alive and like still going and I, you know, as an artist myself, I would want to hold on to my license until death. I feel like maybe that's why it's still so beloved now. You know, because, well, I don't I don't know how beloved it is to me, at least, like the people who really like Sam and Max, I feel that we, we love this game, and we love these characters.
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah, so do you wanna start talking about, should we start, definitely we should start talking about the game at this point? Yes, yes, let's talk about the game a little bit. So this game plot is unique to me.
Animal Detectives: A Trendsetter in Adventure Games?
00:34:58
Speaker
If you made it today, I don't think it would be unique anymore, but this is kind of the original animal detectives, isn't it? We were talking about in one of our early episodes where we talked about Next Fest games, where there's so many animal detectives. It's just not a stop.
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah, just non-stop and I'm very I'm always very charmed with them and Matt's just kind of back and forth I think Yeah, I mean come on. Yeah, how many somebody could think of a better premise?
00:35:28
Speaker
Sure, but this feels like kind of the original, what I can think of as an animal detective in an adventure game. And it's very buddy cop. It's very dragnet. So you're playing as both Sam and Max. Sam is an Irish wolfhound.
00:35:48
Speaker
I don't know if I buy that. It's kind of like this, it's kind of like the Snoopy situation. I'm like, that's a beagle. That's not a beagle. So, but he is described as an Irish wolfhound. Actually, I think he's more like a, he's like a creature made of wax that's sort of shaped like a dog.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like when I saw it as a younger person, I thought he was a bear. I'm like, who's that bear? But yeah, Irish, he describes himself as an Irish wolfhound, six foot tall. They are anthropomorphic. So they are, Sam at least is wearing clothing. Max is an anthropomorphic bunny with kind of these sharp incisor teeth. He is not wearing clothes. I don't know why.
00:36:35
Speaker
I don't know why he is technically naked compared to Sam, but it's pretty clear. If you don't know Sam and Max, don't get it wrong. It's not like he has a penis and balls just hanging. No, he doesn't. It's very Looney Tunes. He's just a rabbit. He's just a rabbit. I feel like Sam is more of an anthropomorphic dog, like human dog, and Max is just a rabbit. He's just like a psychotic rabbit that can talk.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, and often they don't even call him a rabbit. They call him like a, yeah, they call him like a psychotic rabbity thing. A rabbity thing. Yeah, a rabbity thing. So who knows what he is? He is adorable. He's a lagomorph. He's a lagomorph. Yeah, that's what they said. That's what they said. Yeah, a lagomorph.
00:37:24
Speaker
It opens with kind of a classic crime hostage situation. This guy who looks like a mad scientist, he has captured a damsel in distress and he's mad. He's like the ultimate incel. He's like, why don't you want to go out with me? Why don't you love me? And she's like, well, it's not that I don't like you. It's just too nice. Yeah, it's so it predated the whole incel thing, but it captured it so well. It was just like, yeah, what?
00:37:53
Speaker
they clearly had gone on a date and she said she just wanted to be friends so he like being a evil mad scientist captures her and straps her to a chair and he doesn't understand why he doesn't want to date she doesn't want to date him and she's very like pretty calm about it and then uh sam and max they bust through the wall in their police car it like i said very cinematic detective like opening uh they saved the day it turns out that this mad scientist was a robot anyway wasn't even real
00:38:24
Speaker
and they leave the woman there and she's like, thanks. This was the first thing that made me laugh as a kid and just like lose my mind. Cause she goes, she goes, she says something like, thanks Sam and Max. I'll never forget what you've done for me here today. And then they drive away. And then the camera just lingers on her sitting in the chair, just blinking.
00:38:49
Speaker
she's still like you said she doesn't seem bothered she's bothered she's fine i'm not sure she was even knew what was happening she just got it let's just thought circles and triangles and those uh in that head there but yeah so that kind of sets the tone
00:39:04
Speaker
for the game kind of a buddy cop detective parody I do call this a parody game because it is taking from a lot of detective stuff it takes from noir stuff it takes from what I I think dragnet it's very it but it's also goofy so if you've ever seen get smart
00:39:24
Speaker
Scott has a sense of humor to it. And the gameplay kind of falls in line with that as you are put on a case, you are private, you are privatized, you are PIs, essentially, you have your own office, people can call you
00:39:38
Speaker
And when people call them, and this is a running gag through all Sam and Max media, they violently and ferociously fight to see who can answer the phone call. Yes, they do. And they get this phone call from a carnival, which is like, that's, okay. I don't know if you know this about me, Matt. I don't know if we've had this conversation. This might be concerning. I love,
00:40:06
Speaker
adventure games with carnival settings and circuit settings. They're like my favorite thing. They're my favorite settings. So I was very stoked to have this case. And so, you know, you go you get there, you get there to the carnival, you're greeted by you essentially go to the freak show, the sideshow part of the carnival, and a
00:40:29
Speaker
What would you call this? One of the acts or things to look at is a Bigfoot frozen in ice. That's one of the. Yeah, they call them. Yeah, in the in the game, I think they referred to them as freaks. Yeah, it's supposed to be the old.
00:40:47
Speaker
Carnival quote-unquote freak show right yeah, except one of those freaks is like a faucet man And he has a oh my god. He's called the human enigma and his head There's a guy called there's a guy called the human insect, and it's just like a kid with three legs
00:41:10
Speaker
And then this one, this was another thing that made me laugh so hard as a kid. There's one exhibit that says man or chicken dumpling. And it's just like a chubby man floating in a tank of water.
00:41:26
Speaker
It's very funny. It's actually very, very funny. And so this this Bigfoot was stolen. You could see the ice had been melted down. He's not there. The owners are they are what would you call them?
00:41:43
Speaker
They're connected back to back. They're conjoined twins, but yeah, they're connected back to back. They're connected back to back, so to walk, one has to fall forward on their two legs, spin around, and let the other one fall forward on his two legs.
Humor and Puzzles in Sam & Max
00:42:00
Speaker
The funniest thing about these two is that one appears to be much older than the other,
00:42:05
Speaker
Yes. How is that possible? I still want to hear the human enigma story. I was so obsessed with that. I really wanted that to be more of a character that you could talk to and interact with. If you talk to any of the three characters in the sideshow, you can talk to them.
00:42:28
Speaker
But all they'll do is make one noise at you. The chicken dumpling man just goes, blub, blub. The insect boy goes, bzz, bzz. And I forget the human enigma. I think he just makes water noises. Yeah, water noises. I do want to talk about, real quick, the puzzles before we keep going, because back in the very beginning, I think, shows how hard this game is, back when you're still
00:42:56
Speaker
after you get the call before you go to the carnival back when you're still in their office, you need to, you basically need to do two things before you leave. You need to get money and you need to get the instructions from, they tell you, a bonded city courier is waiting outside with your, you know. With your instructions, yeah. With your instructions and all you see outside is a cat that's coughing.
00:43:25
Speaker
fucking really mangy cat too, that cat has seen some stuff. So with zero, and there's nothing that indicates either of these things, but in order to get the money, and these are gonna be very minor spoilers for the puzzles at the very beginning, in order to get the money, you have to use the rat hole in their office, because it turns out that's where they keep all their money.
00:43:49
Speaker
yeah to keep it safe luckily for us we're trained in adventure games we check every rat hole no matter what yeah we click everything on everything and then for to get the uh to get the
00:44:04
Speaker
message from the bonded city courier, you have to use Max on the cat and he like fishes around in the cat's insides, pulls the thing out and then tosses him. I assume that cat's fine, that cat is strong, that cat will outlive us all. You don't have many things to interact with and many options, so like those aren't too hard to solve when you're by just clicking around and experimenting, but that sets the tone for puzzles in this game, where it's like,
00:44:33
Speaker
It's not necessarily moon logic. It's more like cartoon logic. Yes. It's like Looney Tunes logic. It's very absurdist and something really interesting is I did say that you play as Sam and Max, but mostly you're playing as Sam and Max is in your inventory. You can use Max as an item. This is another weird thing. He doesn't start in your inventory, right? You have to at the beginning of the game or anytime in the game before you use him, you have to pick him up.
00:45:02
Speaker
and he stays in your and like he still just keeps walking along next to you but like now he's in your inventory i think i think if i remember correctly those things aren't totally ridiculous in the sense of like what we've talked about moon logic before where it's like what how could this possibly two things possibly go together like when they go together it makes sense to you but there's no reason you have no hints you have no
00:45:30
Speaker
you have no reason to think up these solutions on your own. No, these puzzles are hard. These puzzles are very hard. And it is LucasArts in the sense that you can't be an unwinnable, you can feel free to do whatever you want. You can click max on anything you want to click on with varying degrees of results. But I found these puzzles very tough and I found
00:45:56
Speaker
I found exploring the map infuriating. I'm going to be totally honest with you guys. There is a lot of backtracking in this game, and there's a lot of locations. Yes, I mean, thankfully they are just there on a map. So you click on your car, then takes you to the map and then you click on the location and you're there. Yeah. You.
00:46:18
Speaker
almost never in this game have to walk more than two screens away from the map. It's just, there's a lot on the map and you don't always know because these puzzles are kind of unhinged. You never quite know where you need to go. And I'm going to say this, not all settings were created equal. I certainly like the carnival, but that's the first place you go. Cause that's your, that's your lead. Basically that's who you got to talk to about the missing Bigfoot.
00:46:47
Speaker
i didn't mind the puzzles in the carnival so much even the tunnel of love puzzle where you have to like bash poor max into a circuit breaker to look it makes sense when you do it okay though that that one's got a timing thing which always drove me crazy especially when you're playing on older computers uh because you can only
00:47:14
Speaker
So like the frame rate was really bad, but you can do it too late and you can do it too early. But you're allowed to, you can do it over and over again, which is not a problem if your frame rate is high, but is a problem if it's low. Yes, I had issues with that. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? So yeah, when you have to figure out a way to light up this tunnel of love and then
00:47:38
Speaker
to stop the ride. Sam dips, you have to hit Max on the circuit breaker at the exact right time. And Sam dips Max in the water and then slams him into the thing that short-circuited it. So good. Yeah, it's very slapstick. It's very much like Looney Tunes meets maybe like the Three Stooges meets Dragnet. That's how I would describe this game.
00:48:04
Speaker
And that's very appealing, I think, to an adventure gamer. It really hits a lot of things that we like to see in adventure games. It's very rich in graphics, very rich in those. Even though I said I didn't like every setting, there's a reason why. And that's because some of the puzzles in those said settings are bonkers. They're absolutely wild. Yeah.
00:48:29
Speaker
There's also the dialogue, the way dialogue works in this game is really cool too. You have to give an opening line before all your dialogue opens up, but so you have three options. One's a question, one's an exclamation, and one is, it's a symbol that's just a rubber duck. And throughout the game, that means that you will ask them something straight. And none of these three will ever do anything useful.
00:48:57
Speaker
the only things that are useful in dialogue. But I love the rubber duck. The only things that are useful in dialogue is when you're asking about other characters or inventory objects or things like that. But at any character, you can just ask them something bizarre, exclaim something at them, and then the rubber duck is... Kind of snarky. You can be kind of snarky. I think the rubber duck is like snark.
00:49:23
Speaker
I feel like the rubber duck is like absurdity, right? Because sometimes you click the rubber duck and they just say the most wild off the wall shit you've ever heard. Especially if they're talking to each other. At any point you can talk to Max. And the question mark will be kind of like a very, very vague hint.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah. And the exclamation point will be, like, I don't even, I don't know, just some statement and the rubber duck will be just... Just some statement. Yeah, like, oh, Max, you're looking effervescent. I'm making that up. But you know what I'm trying to say. And if you click the rubber duck, they'll just say the most bizarre bonkers shit to each other. Yeah. Which is interesting because they already do. They already talk very bizarrely.
00:50:09
Speaker
Throughout the whole game, they're just chatting to each other about everything that happens. They're the best of friends. They love each other so much. And they also annoy the hell out of each other. Yeah.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah. Max quickly became a beloved character for me. When I first saw his character design, I thought, is he meant to be frightening? Like, is this an evil character? I was like, what is this? And no, it just turns out that he's kind of like me. He looked a little scary, but you know, cute and weird.
00:50:48
Speaker
It's just cute and weird. And Sam kind of talks with like a... Like a... That's where I was getting the... That's where I was getting the... Yeah, a dragnet. Yeah, like a pulp detective kind of like. Yeah. Yeah, so... Like have you seen the dragnet film with Dan Aykroyd?
00:51:14
Speaker
That's what it reminds me of. It reminds me specifically, they made a dragnet. It was originally a television series. And then they made it a film starring Dan Aykroyd, 1987, and that's the voice that I'm getting. So this game, so you are now put on the trail if you have to find this missing Bigfoot Bruno and the giraffe-necked lady Trixie. Because they both disappeared the same night. On your way, you run into this
00:51:43
Speaker
short country Western star with a big blonde wig. And he's like a combination, his name is Conroy Bumpus. He's like- Best name, best name. He's like a combination of Elvis and Conway Twitty and maybe like a male Dolly Parton. Yeah, yeah. In the way that he has his own like theme park, mansion, place that you could visit, yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
And he's just looking for, he wants a pet Bigfoot is all. And he has a bodyguard with him named Lee Harvey. Just Lee Harvey. Which I did not get as a kid. Yeah, that's a rough one.
00:52:33
Speaker
But, so yeah, you're traipsing around this world looking for leads, and as a kid, it's so absurd and so weird, it felt like I was just going from moment to moment. Like, I don't think that I was able to piece together a coherent,
00:52:53
Speaker
as a child, but now I look at it, and it is just like you're going to different locations, interviewing people, figuring, getting leads. What you find out is that at a bunch of different places, and you get leads to places that also there might be Bigfoots, and every time you go, they tell you their Bigfoot has also disappeared and been stolen, and you also find out that Conroy Bumpus has been there, looking for the Bigfoot too,
00:53:22
Speaker
and it has also not found the Bigfoot. So you guys are both a step behind whatever is capturing these Bigfoots. Right. And I do want to say to get these settings that you travel to, you do need to unlock them. So you start out with a map with only one setting on it. You can go there. And so the point is basically, just like any detective thing, you look for leads. You look for evidence that can bring you to the next location.
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah, which I think is really cool. Again, all the solutions to this game are stuck in my head. I can beat this game in two hours. I can't. There's no way. There's just no way. Everything about this game is just so locked into my brain. So even now, I have to kind of remove myself from it to see
00:54:12
Speaker
how cool that is. That's a very cool thing that you have to find clues. You're not just gonna go to random locations for no reason. You have to find a clue that'll take you there. And then you can bounce between any location at any time, and I think that's kinda cool too. I do too. It is very detective-y in that way. It really does feel like a noir, hard-boiled parody, but these,
00:54:40
Speaker
just intensely silly characters. It's almost like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but more unhinged than that, even. And that's pretty unhinged, you know? But that all being said, as I was rewatching it yesterday, I was just marveling at how beautiful this game looked, and how
00:55:02
Speaker
I don't know how the designs, how Steve Purcell's designs really translated into a computer game design. I couldn't believe it. Like it really looked good. And of course all the backgrounds are beautiful. They are so full of stuff too. The backgrounds are just chock full of little details and jokes. They're fully painted.
00:55:26
Speaker
I couldn't I just I was re-reminded of it really and I was like wow this game aged well because it's gorgeous and because it's kind of based on a cartoony style graphic comic style thing and that ages well you know so like I was like oh that that translated very very well
00:55:45
Speaker
Um, and I wish I could appreciate it even more, but I do. The thing that trips me up with this game are the, like we said, are the puzzles and the backtracking because if you don't, if you're not Matt and you don't know the game, you know, like the palm of your hand,
00:56:03
Speaker
it is hard.
Challenges of Sam & Max: Backtracking and Puzzles
00:56:04
Speaker
I think I think it can be a little back tracky. And I don't I don't like going to those settings over and over and trying the same stuff that I think I've already tried. And there are some puzzles that are not just fetch quests, they're more in line. I don't know if I want to call them logic puzzles, but there is definitely a logical way to get to it. So the puzzle I'm thinking about is the alligator puzzle at the
00:56:29
Speaker
or are they croc, I don't remember now. That one is really tough. Yeah. It's alligators and it's, there comes a point, yeah, where Lee Harvey throws Max in a dunk tank that used to hold a big foot on a, in a Southern Florida,
00:56:53
Speaker
Yeah, you're right, it is in Florida. Yeah, it's Southern Florida mini golf course that is full of alligators.
00:57:03
Speaker
And you have to make a bridge using the alligators by like golfing fish in their exact right spots. I just, no. Nope. I just didn't. That's not a fetch quest, not inventory item to me. That is more in line with my frustration frustrations with like slider puzzles. To me, it just feels like padding. It just feels like fluff.
00:57:25
Speaker
and I'm just not interested in those kind of puzzles. And maybe for the time, that was great. But at this point, that's not what I seek out. Well, you know, I think on some level, it's you knew that that's you had to make the bridge. And so that's frustrating. I think they're I think figuring out why first swapping the golf balls with a bucket of fish.
00:57:49
Speaker
Right. Take some real logic, take some real thought and then figuring out why you're golfing fish into the river and into the pond. Yeah. And making them stop at different places like like that is that does take a lot of like kind of logical.
00:58:07
Speaker
Figuring, but then once you know what you're doing, it's frustrating. Especially again, in the old days, when your frame rate was bad and your mouse wasn't very precise.
00:58:22
Speaker
It's even more frustrating to me because now you know what to do and it's just tedious. And that's very frustrating to me. I also didn't like, I'm gonna, just for puzzle's sake, I'm gonna skip. I did not like the end level. We'll call it a level, right? Because there comes a time where in the game you kind of know what you need to do. You're given a very specific task. And I don't like that end game. I think it's very, very difficult.
00:58:50
Speaker
You probably know what I'm talking about with the totem poles. I actually liked that a lot because you have to think kind of outside the box. Now, again, because I'm so familiar with this game, by the time I get there, I always have all but one of the items.
00:59:11
Speaker
See, I'm like that with Dagger of Amun-Ra. So try to think of it that way. Your Sam and Max, for me, is gonna be Dagger. So actually keep perspective on how, yeah, we know these games because we love them so much, but how difficult are they for an average person that picks up an adventure game? You know? Yeah. Right, yeah. I guess, yeah, if you have a whole, because at that point, you've unlocked the entire map.
00:59:39
Speaker
Yes. And so you have a whole map worth of places that you've explored. And now you have to do this out of the box thinking and be like, okay, what does this totem pole represent? And how can I find an inventory object that matches that idea? And they're pretty, yeah, they're pretty out of the box.
01:00:06
Speaker
I mean, I will say the puzzles do match the tone of the game. You know what I mean? It's really, it's very dedicated. The whole game is very dedicated to being this kind of zany experience, you know? And I'll also say by that point, you should, hopefully,
01:00:27
Speaker
have a bunch of dangling threads in your mind, right? By the time you unlock these totem poles and you need these four special items, you should have in your mind, if you don't have the items already, you should have in your mind like, oh, yeah, that's right, I still need to figure out how to get that object, so maybe that has something. Like you should have some dangling threads of puzzles you didn't solve in your head, and so you could put two and two together.
01:00:54
Speaker
I don't know, I go back and forth on enjoying kind of, I guess you would call open world adventure games where you go back to stuff. It's not linear. You know what I mean? You don't go to a space and you're stuck there until the next space. You can freely go to any of these settings that you want. And I go back and forth on, that's very classic adventure game. That's how King's Quest started. You know, you just go wherever you want.
01:01:18
Speaker
But now in modern times, I think adventure games have gotten more linear, where you basically know what you're going to do. You are in this space until you are not. You know what I mean? It's it's less. Yeah, I think a lot of games become less open world. And I go back and forth on how I feel about it. Because like I love part of the reason I loved adventure games, when I found them was the exploration part of it was going
01:01:42
Speaker
to these places going kind of back and forth and, and, and really solving a puzzle, you know, really just like figuring it out.
01:01:51
Speaker
But like, just thinking about Seven Max, I'm like, there's some cruel parts. I don't know. There's some wacky things in here. And when you've gone back and forth so much, it kind of loses its novelty a little bit, you know? Just like anything, just like any game. But can you guess which setting I liked the best? Besides the carnival? Yeah, besides the carnival, because that's way too easy.
01:02:19
Speaker
Okay. The, let's see. Bungie jumping from the mount, the noses of the presidents of Mount Rushmore? No, I absolutely hated that actually. You're not gonna guess, it's so stupid.
01:02:39
Speaker
the celebrity vegetable patch where they grow vegetables that look like famous people's heads. Definitely not. That was such a fleeting, that's a fleeting one. Yeah, you get two inventory items there. Like it's such a weird spot in the game. The,
01:03:11
Speaker
nationwide convenience store chain Snuggies. Snuggies, yep. I love going to Snuggies. I don't know why. There's a nostalgia to I think to general stores just in general. Duke in general, do you get it? Sorry, this is terrible pun.
01:03:31
Speaker
There's just a nostalgic for things like that. And it's so goofy and so silly. And I know that when I enter a store in an adventure game, I'm probably gonna buy something like it's almost a for sure thing. Yeah, I'm gonna get an inventory item here. So it's always like a good jumping off point to like be in a store in an adventure game.
01:03:51
Speaker
There are three snuckies on the map and each of them have just like a guy, a chubby guy eating ice cream, but with a different color shirt. Identical cashiers with like one thing, like one has a mustache, one has glasses, but they're the same.
01:04:09
Speaker
and they each have like a different food item in the stained glass windows and a different statue up front because like one's in Louisiana one's in Arizona and one's in Michigan so like the one in Louisiana is a shrimp the one in Arizona is a cactus I can't remember what the one in Michigan is but very well a crawfish rather not shrimp but yeah oh not you're right yeah not a shrimp
01:04:37
Speaker
In each Snuggies, you can buy a different, you can buy a different minigame. So you can buy their version of Battleship, which is called Car Bomb. Yeah, Car Bomb, I remember that. To be honest, I was not charmed by those minigames. I did not really play them.
01:05:02
Speaker
Oh, I played car bomb so much. Cause it's just, it's just battleship.
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's just battleship. Then there's one that is just like a coloring book and it has multiple different pages and you can click on the crayons and then click on different areas and color it however you want. And then there is a dress up book. So you could just switch to max closing. There's other mini games in this game. There's like a whack-a-mole thing, but it's whack-a-rack. Yeah, I was thinking about that too, the whack-a-mole, which I played, I liked that one, cause carnival.
01:05:36
Speaker
And that one you have to play to beat the game, but all the other mini games you don't, including one that is constantly on the map, which is just a game where you jump, like Sam is driving down the highway and Max is standing on the roof. And if you click the mouse button, Max will jump and so you just jump over street signs. Like you jump over highway signs and that's the whole game.
01:06:05
Speaker
Also, I really liked World of Fish. I don't know why. I love World of Fish. Like that weird fisherman, I think he died. He definitely dies. Yeah, you kill the fisherman for sure. Well, he died doing what he loved, okay? Which is fishing. So he's like a Woody Allen pastiche, but he is fishing. He spends his whole life fishing at this
01:06:33
Speaker
this place, I don't know what to call it. And when he fills up his net,
01:06:43
Speaker
a helicopter comes out of nowhere, steals his net worth of fish, and flies it to a restaurant, and he has no idea why this happens, and so he just keeps fishing forever. That's why I love World of Fish. So funny. I'm sad that we killed this man, but he died doing what he loved. Yeah, where's that? That's like,
01:07:11
Speaker
World of Fish. Yeah, where is it? It's like, it's above Louisiana, so it's like. I wanna check, I wanna see if I can figure it out. Very middle, like, very middle of the United. It's as middle as you can get. Oh, the Midwest, nice. Yeah, it's, you know what, it's like Kansas almost, Oklahoma, Kansas. Yeah, it's a little to the right. Yeah, it's not the right place. It might be Oklahoma, yeah, it's a little to the right. Maybe Missouri? Yeah, it could be Missouri, yeah.
01:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That's a good call. But yeah, I just- It says it in the game, but we just- Oh, does it? Okay. It says every location they say the town and the state that they're in, but- Oh, okay. You know what? It just, it becomes lost on me because I'm really just using the icons. You know, they're icons on your map. But yeah, I'm looking at the map and I'm trying to remember like these other, oh, I just found the other Snucky's statue and it's like a Jackalope.
01:08:11
Speaker
Oh, right. Yeah. You remember that? Yeah. Yeah, I do. That's I think there's some other interesting stuff in the game. There's a point where there's a there's a really good joke where there's a wishing well. And if you throw money in it, Sam says, I wish this game were over. And then the credits go up. It's definitely got some meta, some meta things going for it. Very. There's a.
01:08:36
Speaker
you know very monkeys like this game is blah blah you know we're in a video game but it's not egregious i just want to point that out it's it's got those jokes but they do make sense right yet there's a there's a bunch of other quotes there's a musical number there's a scene in quote unquote vr uh yeah that's really fun um which is interesting because of the most recent sam and max game to come out as of you know 2024 is a vr game
01:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, that is interesting. So that's that's Sam and Max hit the road. It's a real classic. I do want to talk about what happened with Sam and Max afterwards and just briefly and what happened with Steve Purcell.
01:09:20
Speaker
Um, so after Sam and Max hit the road, it was, yeah, like, like you said, it's kind of the cult hit the company infinite machine in 2001 licensed it for a 3d game, uh, that was under production got canceled.
01:09:37
Speaker
Then LucasArts in 2002 started work on a game called Sam and Max Freelance Police, but then I think in 2004 LucasArts shut down all of their adventure games forever. They even released like a statement saying like we do not do not think adventure games are profitable then to refer us anymore. Yeah, I remember that.
01:09:58
Speaker
Sad times. Yeah. So then in God, when was it? This was actually this is before those two things in 1997, Fox on Fox Kids. There is a I think there was how many seasons? There's one season maybe.
01:10:20
Speaker
I don't know if there's more than one. One season 13 episodes and it's one of those like cartoons where it's like there's an A and B so it's like 24 segments.
01:10:32
Speaker
of there's a Sam and Maxia TV show, like cartoon, that was pretty good. Steve Purcell was heavily involved in it. The voice actors are different. And some of the writing feels a little bit different, but not so different. Like it's pretty close. And again, Steve Purcell writes on it. And then Steve Purcell went on to join Pixar, where most notably he wrote
01:11:00
Speaker
or helped with the screenplay of the movie Brave, then Sam and Max would get adopted by Telltale Games. They would release three installments. What are those called? Why did I think it was more than that? That's so, only three? Well, yeah, because they were the episodic things, so. Yeah, yeah. There was like six episodes for each. Oh, okay. Okay, that makes more sense. Okay, I got it. My brain was like, what?
01:11:30
Speaker
The first one was Sam and Max Save the World, and then it was Sam and Max. Ooh, what's that next one called? I'm a purist. I didn't play them. I'm a gaming snob, you guys. I don't have to do that. And then the third one is
01:11:47
Speaker
Sam and Max the Devil's Playhouse. And those each have five episodes. And then again, very recently, I think last year, they came out with a Sam and Max virtual reality game. And it's really like, as Steve Purcell describes it as, actually it was, oh, it was three years ago, wow. Steve Purcell describes it as like a Sam and Max theme park.
01:12:17
Speaker
It's a little bit more like you're walking around Sam and Max's office in their street and then you're actually playing a game. I mean, that's kind of cool. I would like to see that just for nostalgia's sake, you know.
01:12:33
Speaker
So who knows what's in, so like clearly they're not done, right? Steve Purcell still holds the right, so at any point there could be another Sam and Max game, there could be another Sam and Max show or comic book, right? It just depends on who's willing to give him money and whether he's inspired to do
Future of Sam & Max in the Indie Game World
01:12:52
Speaker
it. So that's, it's- And I really think with the resurgence of like indie games and all kinds of like pixel art styles, I always thought that Sam and Max
01:13:03
Speaker
D hit the road would have a sequel or did have a sequel. In fact, when I was younger, I because I was playing so many games with with multiple like series games, Kings quest, Monkey Island, stuff like that. I really thought that there'd be another one because it's set up that way. It's just like in the comics, they're gonna go on cases, right? So it really felt to me that at that time, maybe there was another one kind of like hit the road.
01:13:29
Speaker
So I would love to see it back in that beautiful, wonderfully aged setting that they did. Because I do like some Telltale games. I'm not in general a fan. And I don't know how I feel about the 3D aspect. It's not bad. It's not bad by any means. These games, people do like these games, I want to say.
01:13:52
Speaker
Yeah, I did not like season one. I'm having trouble. Season two is a little bit better, but I don't love it. And I've only ever heard good things about season three. I started season three after in our last episode, Alistair, Becca King recommended
01:14:10
Speaker
jumping over season two and starting season three, but there was already stuff in the very first cut scene that I was like, this feels like there was set up in the previous game. So I went back to season two and again, it's like a little better than season one, but I'm not, I wasn't in love with it.
01:14:27
Speaker
Right. And it's it is big shoes to fill, you know, coming off of such a quality kind of classic game, like hit the road. So it's not I mean, to me, it's probably not going to be comparable or, you know, match up to that. But I would not be against more Sam and Max content. Yeah, me neither. Yeah.
01:14:50
Speaker
You know, and there's been Sam and Max content I've loved and Sam and Max content I didn't enjoy and it doesn't ruin anything for me, right? Like if the more Sam and Max content, like it can all be bad and I'm still happy that it's here. I just won't play it or watch it or whatever it is. I'm just glad it has life, you know? But yeah, is that what we have to say about Sam? We went pretty in depth there.
01:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's, yeah, we're not gonna get like perfect tides level into the themes and emotional resonance of Sam and Max. They're just goofy, funny weirdos, yeah.
01:15:32
Speaker
I was gonna say sometimes it gets maybe a little too absurdist with a little too zany because there's like these I mean the bigfoot's fine I love them the mole men there are mole men characters it gets a little surreal I want to say the vortex setting it goes off you know sentient rats and yeah yeah I think um
01:15:55
Speaker
And yeah, you could maybe draw some sort of metaphor in the game about naturalism, about Native Americans or habitat destruction. Like you could go there, but I don't think, I think all that's honestly incidental. I do not think there were supposed to be any actual parallels drawn. Like this Bigfoot culture that you explore has like,
01:16:21
Speaker
aspects of like 17 different cultures all wrapped into it. I don't think it's supposed to be a one-to-one metaphor. Right. But yeah, that's definitely just part of the story. That's not a theme. It's really just meant to be buddy cop doing buddy cop things. Yeah. Yeah. It's great.
01:16:42
Speaker
if you've never played it, I highly suggest it, but I would maybe suggest bring a walkthrough. Not to rely on, but to look, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know, I agree. I mean, you can't get into an unwinnable, so feel free to explore, but don't be too upset if you get stuck and you need some guidance, you know? Cause like, I've been playing adventure games for years and it still frustrates me, you know? Yeah. All right, do you wanna throw up some
01:17:13
Speaker
interstitial music and we'll come back and say goodbye to the good people. Yeah, I think so. I think we did really well breaking that down. Good job, Matt. Good job, Roses. Thank you. And now it's time for Matt's favorite game.
01:17:48
Speaker
Hey everyone, pushing up roses here, and we're back. Special boy, Matt Aucamp, see I used your nickname, because I think that you earned it. Yeah, I think we earned our nickname. So I earned my nickname, Special Boy, and you earned your nickname, Trash Monster. Oh.
01:18:07
Speaker
Oh, remember? Okay. Remember? Okay, that's fair. That checks out. What are some other nicknames we've had for you in this? You were Wolverine last? Oh yeah, Wolverine. Oh, we kind of played with, you know,
01:18:24
Speaker
kitty girl or special no i don't think i did that i don't think i played with that i think maybe you were playing with that off by yourself in the corner that was mostly me that was mostly me what about um
01:18:40
Speaker
What's a good femme fatale name for me? How about this? Instead of, you know how there's like this slang in Old Noir where they're like, ah, this guy's pushing up daisies. See, how about that? Only roses. Matt. What? You serious?
01:19:01
Speaker
What? It's my whole name. That's what my name means. Oh, so we are, so we already, oh, so we already got it. Okay. So we already got it solved, solved. All right. So I'll be special boy and you'll be pushing up roses. That's better work. Nailed it. No notes. We did it. And we secured and clamped down. I don't know why I'm saying it like that. We clamped down another podcast. We clamped down a podcast.
01:19:31
Speaker
All right, everybody, we got this one clamped down. So keep back in case it's manacles come. This is my favorite thing I've ever described ever. We clamped it down.
01:19:46
Speaker
So quick, before it escapes, let's say goodbye. We're part of the Adventure Game Hot Spot Network. Check them out at their website. You know it. You find us on whatever, all the social media sites. I'm Matt Aucamp. She's pushing up roses. Just Google me, but not too much, please. Thank you.
01:20:06
Speaker
Google me, but ignore the Ohio police officer from Macon County, Ohio. That guy has my last name and first name and is the worst. Who gave him permission? Audacity. That the audacity is absolutely right. He is a actually monstrous criminal. Oh my God. Okay, so that's not special boy Matt. That is not me. That is not me.
01:20:35
Speaker
I'm the other Madaw Camp, the adorable one. The good jumper, yeah. You can email us, email us at mattandroses at gmail.com so we can do another cool Q&A episode. Or if you just want to praise us, we like that. Well, I don't know, I can't speak for Matt, but I like that. So if you just want to send us some kind words of how you feel about the podcast, I am very receptive to that. Send us some e-card, e-greeting cards.
01:21:04
Speaker
We like fan art. Oh, fan art would rule. Oh my God. The first person to write, to send us some fan art of anything. What do we do for those people? We will. Send them like a signed postcard if they want. Okay. I'll write them a letter. You want a letter from Pushing Up Roses? You got it.
01:21:30
Speaker
I will blow you a kiss from across the, I will blow them a kiss from across the country. I mean, it'll take a while to get there, but it will get there. Yeah, but it, it'll get there. You'll just one day be walking and be like, Oh, Oh, okay. I can send them a loose crank. This is everywhere. Those are everywhere. All right. So, uh, Agheads, we will be back next week. Uh, do we want to tease it?
01:22:00
Speaker
Nope. All right, see you next week, Agheads. Podcast is art, and art is suffering. And art is suffer.