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The Simpsons Month: The Rise of Simpsons Mania
307 Plays1 year ago
It's finally here! In the first episode of Simpsons Month, join Satsunami and Andrew as they discuss how this beloved show took the world by storm and impacted so many lives. So prepare to eat your shorts and get those pink frosted donuts ready as we finally take on The Simpsons.
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Transcript
Introduction and Recording Mishap
00:00:00
Speaker
Well Andrew, that's the end of Simpsons Month. What a recording. Uh, Satsu? Did you hit the record button? D'oh!
Kicking off Simpsons Month
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to the first episode of Simpsons Month. My name is Satanami. You may remember me from other productions such as streaming on Twitch, writing a sci-fi book, and starring in the documentary Red Pandas, Framed or Full. Joining me today is none other than my co-host Arena, Andrew. Andrew, welcome. Is this the way you pictured the podcast was going to go? Yeah, except for travelling in a van solving mysteries.
00:00:41
Speaker
nailed it. We've been riffing quite a lot with one another before this episode because we are really excited to finally be doing not just another episode on The Simpsons but a whole Simpsons month. We've been bringing this up for a while that we're going to be doing this but off mic and also I think when we initially did our favourite seasons episode, almost a year ago now I guess, I think we discussed potentially a Simpsons month and so it has been a long time coming.
00:01:04
Speaker
Funny enough, for preparation for this episode, I actually went back and re-listened to that episode. And I've got to say, it was very insightful listening to why we liked certain seasons. We're great. We are amazing. High five to myself. Yeah, of course. Is that you high fiving yourself? I tried to do like a golf high five next to the mic to see if it got picked up at all. Well, you succeeded. Yeah, speaking of golf references.
00:01:32
Speaker
as long guide you for Christmas. As long-term listeners of Chatsunami and really anyone who knows myself and Andrew, you'll know that we are both absolutely mega fans of this franchise. We grew up with it. We pretty much have it in our daily vocabulary. Before we start and discuss what we're going to be talking about today, Andrew, I'm going to turn it
Personal Connections to The Simpsons
00:01:58
Speaker
on you. First of all, what is your history with this franchise?
00:02:01
Speaker
It all began with, no, I'm kidding. I have a pretty long history with this. I kind of touched on it in our old episodes on the best seasons, but I've kind of always had The Simpsons in my life. As far as I can remember, my family has watched The Simpsons. It was most of my brother and my dad did enjoy it, but it was mostly my brother watching it. And so I would kind of watch along and wouldn't necessarily understand a lot of the jokes in it. It took until almost now for me to get some of them. I feel like every time I rewatch The Simpsons now, I kind of get a new thing that I hadn't gotten in a previous watch.
00:02:30
Speaker
So as I say, as long as I can remember, I've been watching The Simpsons, loving The Simpsons. It's been an important part of my day. I remember I'd always be very excited for Sundays when the new episode would come out. I would consistently watch it every day after school. Like there'd be the six o'clock showing on channel four and then the seven o'clock showing of two episodes, I think on sky. I'd watch around three Simpson episodes every weekday consistently. And it was pretty much was the foundation of my humor. My references are mostly Simpsons references.
00:03:00
Speaker
As long time listeners will know, as Satsu already said, we constantly reference Simpsons in our podcasts, in our previous Let's Play channel. It's pretty consistent in our lives and it was a large part of our friendship as well as referencing the Simpsons. As they say, it was the best of times, it was the blust of times. You stupid podcaster.
00:03:18
Speaker
I was waiting for it, I was like, say the line, Andrew! It is amazing though how unifying The Simpsons is though as a franchise because I'm pretty much an assembler, but as you said, we were brought closer together by a lot of shared interests, you know, with gaming, with
00:03:36
Speaker
the particular content creators that we like with the films and media that we like and in particular The Simpsons is probably one of the main pillars of our friendship. Would you agree? Yeah, I think so. I think it's very much how, not necessarily how we bonded as friends, but it's certainly one of the reasons we kind of stayed friends for so long is our kind of shared humour for topics like The Simpsons. It's like a big power right beside anime.
00:04:02
Speaker
they're both competing with one another. But I know exactly what you mean, because it seems as if The Simpsons is one of those things that has always been there, if that makes sense. It's always this franchise that has always been on TV. I actually remember, and this is how old I am, but
00:04:20
Speaker
not Tracy Oldman Old. I'm going to reiterate that because it's something in that previous episode I was listening to where we were talking about our favourite seasons where you'd pointed out that we're not that old that we watched it during the 1989 run because neither of us were born before then. But yeah, it's always
00:04:38
Speaker
been there. We were probably born during the beginning of the Golden Age I want to say, and you know by the time we were young and we were able to relatively understand the Simpsons, it had like a grasp on pop culture and everything and I remember it was probably my brothers who watched it a wee bit as well. My dad
00:04:57
Speaker
kind of likes it. It's not his go-to show but if he watches it he'll laugh at a couple of the jokes and things. My mum I don't think is as big a fan. She likes some of the episodes but there's just some episodes that are a bit too crass which I know sounds so weird to say that nowadays considering we've got South Park Family Guy that was kind of shows that just below the senses out the water but
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, I remember watching this on BBC Two. That's how long ago it was for me. And then, of course, it moved from BBC Two to Channel Four, and I think it's still there to this day. It's also on Sky One, of course, and now it's on Disney Plus, where you can go back. And this episode isn't sponsored by Disney Plus, but if there's any better listening from Disney, you know where to find us. Give us money! Haha! Haha, please!
00:05:43
Speaker
but I remember watching this religiously. I would watch all of the episodes, I would quote it daily, I would buy the video games, you know, like Simpson's Hit and Run, the Simpsons game, I even had Simpson's Wrestling, which was terrible, but you know, I still had it, Simpson's Road Rage, you know, I was a Simpson head. And I even collected the comics, which, did you know, I actually learned this today, that the comics stopped production in 2018.
00:06:10
Speaker
I'm kind of familiar with that because to my understanding, a podcast that I've referenced in the past, Talking Simpsons, one of the hosts of that, his wife wrote or did the panels maybe on some of the comics for Simpsons. So Nina Matamoto, I think is her name. Pretty sure she worked to some extent on those comics.
00:06:29
Speaker
It's one of those things, though, that, you know, when you're really into something and then you just fall out of interest and then you kind of leave it alone for a while and then you look back on it and think, oh, I wonder how that's doing? And then you see, like, it's been discontinued for years and you're like, oh, no, oh, no, no, no, no, come back, come back. I mean, I've still got hundreds of comics in my attic just now. I really need to go back and reread them because some of them are fantastic. And then as it went on, much like the show,
00:06:57
Speaker
kind of got a bit repetitive and tired in some places, but today this is going to be a celebration of the Simpsons. Today we are indeed going to be talking about really just the height of the Simpsons. We're going to be talking about Simpsons mania. We're going to be talking about mainly what made the Simpsons so popular.
00:07:16
Speaker
I feel as if with The Simpsons, and I don't know if you agree Andrew, but with the discourse around The Simpsons it seems as if everyone gravitates first of all towards the negative side, like they talk about how The Simpsons fell, what was its shortcomings, and don't get me wrong, next week we are going to be talking about that and deep diving into it, but do you feel as if a lot of people focus more on that rather than what made the show so good in the first place?
00:07:41
Speaker
Yes, I think because of what The Simpsons legacy became, people did seem to kind of think of it in a negative context. Like there's still the love for The Simpsons. You can still see within the public conscience that there is love for The Simpsons. But the first thing that people will go to is, oh, now it sucks though. And that's kind of been the impression from season 13 or 14 onwards, which when you look at when I was in the 34th season, so there's supposedly been 20 seasons worth of bad Simpsons, far more than what was considered classic Simpsons.
00:08:11
Speaker
I mean, again, I'm not going to get into this in this episode necessarily, but I don't think that it's as bad as something. But the reputation of the franchise has been sullied by people's impressions of the later seasons. It's something that I didn't think about until actually, of all things, I saw a meme. It was someone saying, let me ask you something.
00:08:29
Speaker
What's a person who's a fan of The Simpsons doing? They are saying that they're a die-hard fan of The Simpsons when they hate 75% of the show. It is true, it's not something you really think about, but even if we take Generously Season 1 all the way to, let's say being Generous Season 12,
00:08:47
Speaker
You know, you've still got a good 22 extra seasons that people say, oh, aren't as good or, oh, I'm not a big fan of this. It's weird to think that The Simpsons, even though people considered it to have long expired since the late 90s, early 2000s, we still love it. We still go back to it. We use the jokes in our daily dialogue.
The Legacy and Reputation of The Simpsons
00:09:12
Speaker
We still riff on it. We still talk about it. So what we're going to do now is
00:09:17
Speaker
we are going to talk about the main pillars of really what makes The Simpsons so impressionable, what makes it so good, other than the Bartman, of course. See, without any further ado, will we just jump into it? Yeah, let's go ahead and jump that gorge.
00:09:32
Speaker
And yeah, we will be right back after I steam these hands. Welcome to Chatanami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Previously on Chatanami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:09:55
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:20
Speaker
Movies! And Feelings! Pop Pop! Bring Your Own Popcorn is a podcast that dives into people and the movies who love them. Let us preach to your choir or stoke your ire as we spiral down memory lane with cult classics, jurastics, and other genres that rhyme with traffic. What we lack in education we make up for with comedy, compassion, and camaraderie. I'm your host, Mixed State Majesty, inviting you to join me and an assortment of wonderful guests on fine podcast apps everywhere.
00:10:48
Speaker
Bring your own popcorn! This episode is sponsored by Zencaster. If you're a podcaster that records remotely like me, then you'll know how challenging it can be to create the podcast you've always wanted. That's where Zencaster comes in. Before I met Zencaster, I was put a naive podcaster, recording on low quality, one-track audio waves.
00:11:30
Speaker
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00:11:41
Speaker
So one thing as well, talking about how important Simpsons is and how big of a legacy it still has, is that since Simpsons is now on Disney+, following the Fox merger, it is the most watched TV show or movie, to my knowledge, on Disney+. It brings in more viewership than anything else on the platform.
00:12:00
Speaker
So it just goes to show how important it is to Disney now and that they aren't likely to stop anytime soon. That is absolutely crazy to think though, considering the wealth of shows they actually have. I mean, it's the same streaming platform that does it have Family Guy? It also has Family Guy, yeah.
00:12:17
Speaker
Yeah and like all of these other, well it's got Marvel as well for God's sake. It's weird to think that this show that started from the 1980s, well 1989, but yeah it's amazing to think it's still going strong even though people have said that it's not as good as it used to be. But going back
00:12:36
Speaker
in time a little bit clearly before we were born, and I want to emphasise that we're not that old, but of course in 1989 the Simpsons was proposed by a very fine gentleman called Matt Groening who was at his comic Life and Hell about rabbits that he initially pitched to James L. Brooks.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he pitched Life in Hell, which was his comic strip that he was working on as an idea for animated shorts. But I believe that it didn't really seem like a viable show, and I think there might have been an issue with the publication rights surrounding Life in Hell. And so he then rethought it and kind of came back with a dysfunctional family type format, I think kind of taking inspiration from the likes of The Flintstones and The Honeymooners. It's funny you say about the publication rights, because I think
00:13:19
Speaker
the story I heard was that he didn't want to lose the rights to Life in Hell and he just scribbled, whether this is like urban legend or fact, he scribbled the Simpsons family on like a piece of paper before he went into the meeting to substitute his character's Life in Hell for what would then become the Simpsons and although they had a bit of a rough start, even by today's standards, because I have to say the old Tracy Ullman animation is kind of rough
00:13:49
Speaker
I have to say, although it's not the main focus, I can kind of give it leeway for that, that it is more of a supplement than it is like the grand main attraction up until they finally got their own show with Fox and then they started really just snowballing.
00:14:04
Speaker
Of course, that brings us on to particular points that we've both agreed that maintains, I suppose is the right word, maintains their popularity even to this day in 2023. So the first one, of course, we've got is writing and structure. So before I jump in and praise the hell out of the writing, do you want to kick this one off?
00:14:25
Speaker
Sure, it's quite a broad topic talking about the writing of The Simpsons because it covers so many things. It covers for sure some of the interesting arcs that they kind of do with certain characters. It covers some of the recordable lines that are written into the show and the kind of scenarios that are written to the show. Because what's so wonderful about The Simpsons, and there are other sitcoms and animated sitcoms that do this, but they'll include gags throughout in different ways. There'll be the dialogue, the characters are speaking to one another, back and forth chemistry.
00:14:53
Speaker
There'll be sight gags where we see like a funny sign. There'll also be more slapstick comedic situations. So they kind of managed to weave the comedy into different elements, which within the writing, it elevates it above so many of its peers that it displays levels that you don't really see consistently from other similar shows.
00:15:16
Speaker
Funny enough, I was looking at what makes the jokes so funny, or funnies like I brought to you, but I was watching this video the other day about a writer for these kind of shows talking about what makes the particular writing of the Golden Age so tightly knitted, if that makes sense, and well structured. And one of the things they brought up which I thought was quite interesting was the concept of tagging in comedy. Have you ever heard of this?
00:15:44
Speaker
No. It is something I never heard of until I watched this particular video, but apparently the way a joke's structured is, you know, you've got the premise of it, you've got the build up, you've got the punch line. But something that The Simpsons does is it builds upon the punch line. So that's something called tagging. It starts off with
00:16:04
Speaker
the coma getting into trouble and then by the end of it there's the joke at the end but then of course because of that joke it causes like a kind of ripple effect onto other characters that might be doing something completely different and the example that they gave which I have to admit isn't the strongest joke in the series but
00:16:21
Speaker
the one where Bart discovers a comet, and the build-up to it is of course Bart sets off the weather brewing with Seymour's buttocks, proudly on display in this, and he asks the children to throw stones to bring it down. But they start throwing it, and then they start having Seymour's car, which is a direct result of
00:16:43
Speaker
what he was asking, trying to take down the balloon. So that's the punch line and then of course it builds on top of that where Willy decides to try and shoot in the air. But then they do this weird thing where they keep the joke going and they have these fighter pilots that identify Willy as like a fighter pilot and they end up blowing themselves up. It's like a very obscure joke that I kind of forgot about until I re-watched it but another one I think
00:17:08
Speaker
maybe semi-relates is see the episode Bart Sells His Soul where his bike gets run over and the guy starts laughing but he goes down the subway tunnel and then it blows up and everything. It's just this very surreal sequence. It genuinely could have cut just when Bart's bike fell apart, but it's this idea of kind of layering the joke and building on top of it. It's not just like they have one joke
00:17:36
Speaker
They have the premise, the build-up, and then they have the punchline, and then they kill it dead. They keep building on top of it, and that is something that I feel as if it's quite consistent with the golden age of The Simpsons
Comedy Craftsmanship in The Simpsons
00:17:48
Speaker
writing. Yeah, no, I would agree with that for sure, that they're able to fold each joke.
00:17:53
Speaker
into each other that it is consistently kind of moving and evolving each element of its comedy, which is within a given scene that an example I would give is just in Simpsons Tide, one of my favourite episodes, if not my favourite episode, where they're doing the graduation ceremony just towards the ad break.
00:18:08
Speaker
and Homer and the other naval recruits graduate, throw their hats in the air to celebrate, then it kind of shifts on to the pastry chefs. They all throw their hat into the air and then it shifts to the World War I recreationists in their German sort of outfits of the spike on their head and they all throw their hat in the air and then it turns and the spike faces down and they go, uh-oh, all together. Like that's just such a silly joke where it's kind of cutting from one thing to another. It works so, so well for me.
00:18:34
Speaker
The thing about it is, though, there's not only that build-up. Again, it's like the montage that he has being hidden in the naval reserves, because I did watch this episode before we came on tonight, and it is just such a good episode. It really is. But there's honestly so many. There's like a treasure trove of examples that you can give of these particular jokes.
00:18:56
Speaker
you've got subversive jokes as well which I think are hilarious, like the episode where Homer goes to the Duff factory is the moment where he's in the basement and he's told to defeat the spider's curse, simply recite a bible verse and he goes to say, thou shall not, and then he just throws a rock at it and it just collapses and then he just runs past it. I think moments like that are just absolutely brilliant and you know there's so many writers you could credit, like I was looking at the list
00:19:25
Speaker
of writers. You've got Sam Simon, you've got Richard Apple, or Appell, apologies. I think he wrote Mother Simpson, which is quite interesting, but I'll get on to that in a later point. But you've got James L. Brooks, you had Conan O'Brien at one point. There's just so many talented writers in this particular period, and it definitely
00:19:43
Speaker
shows they are strengths as writers. But going from that, there's another point that's kind of linked to this and it's the idea of the universal appeal of the show. So this is something I was thinking about the other day when I was thinking about why people hate the show so much.
00:20:02
Speaker
and I won't get into it too much in depth in this episode but I was thinking about how a lot of the jokes nowadays and modern Simpsons have a very American-centric point of view and initially I was like I wonder if that's one of the issues with the show. Is the show going in too much of oh it's all about American social issues and things like that but the Simpsons has always done that with
00:20:25
Speaker
I think the first episode of Season 3 where they go to Washington because Lisa wins a poem competition. That's the one, yeah. And that completely disproves my point because I'm like, well, they've been doing that for ages. You know, they had the famous George Bush one, they had the Modern Reality episode. But the thing about the
00:20:43
Speaker
older ones and again I'll get into next week why it doesn't work as well nowadays but I mean back then the reason I think it works is because they did it in such a way or rather they framed it in such a way that people from all over the planet could relate to the struggles of these particular characters you know it wasn't just like oh I have to be a middle-aged American dad to understand the struggles of not
00:21:11
Speaker
having a job or the struggles of dealing with bratty children or things like that, it definitely had that universal appeal. The accessibility of it. Exactly, because I don't think it would have been a global success if it was very American-centric, because don't get me wrong, it is a parody.
00:21:29
Speaker
of all those types of shows at the time, you know, all the very squeaky clean family friendly sitcoms where it's like, oh, we wrap up our problems in a nice bow. And The Simpsons was very much at the time counterculture. It was fighting against the likes of like The Brady Bunch and The Cosby Show and these kind of things.
00:21:47
Speaker
and it definitely wasn't the norm for children to be meaning the parents or the parents to be strangling their children. I mean, technically, still isn't, but in the realms of cartoon comedy, we're not supposed to do that. It was a different time, okay? It was the 90s. I have some calls to make.
00:22:06
Speaker
just stretching my calves. Isometric exercise. Before we go on to the next point though, what are your thoughts about the, as you said, the accessibility of this show worldwide? I do agree. It certainly is an accessible show. I mean, we're very much evident of that. We do come from the Western world. So I mean, it's not too dissimilar to how we kind of grew up, like America and the UK are not as far apart as say America and China are.
00:22:30
Speaker
say. There is certainly still interest globally for The Simpsons. It still has that kind of appeal. You were talking about the early seasons not being so kind of like insular and so America-centric. I think going back and looking now, there are a lot of those jokes that kind of just went over my head, but now understanding them, I understand the more American jokes that's being made. There's a lot of political satire in The Simpsons from like the very early days they go in on politics.
00:22:54
Speaker
Staying away from taking either side's point. You would say they lean more Democrat than Republican, but one of the main writers in the show, when I say John Schwartzwalder, I think that's quite a big libertarian. And so he kind of both sides a lot of arguments. He thinks that every political party is stupid. A lot of his kind of politics makes its way onto the show. I can remember if it was Al Jean or John Schwartzwalder that was the libertarian, but one of the two were and it's quite influential in its comedy.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of the reasons why you often will be like, ha, yeah, the Simpsons is on my side. Wait, wait, wait a second. No, they're not. Because they'll jump from side to side for every just from kind of a modern Simpsons perspective, for every scene making fun of Trump, there'll also be something making fun of Bernie Sanders and his supporters. They don't seem to really be taking as much of a side, I think more so liberal than conservative, but it does change from time to time. Because that's probably the closest we will ever get to being political.
00:23:45
Speaker
I keep telling you, we have to make bold political statements to get the sponsors in. That's what they want, controversy. That's for another episode.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah, that is indeed. That absolutely is. But going back to the political stances, I think what actually makes this show stand up so well, and it's kind of a depressing point to be honest, that America hasn't really changed since the 90s.
00:24:22
Speaker
technology-wise and everything obviously has evolved and things like that but there's a lot of social issues and social commentary that you're watching it and you're like oh that's quite funny haha I wonder how America's doing nowadays and then you look it up and you go oh oh no because one of the ones that my partner and I were watching the other day was homophobia which it's funny to look at you know in the sense of Homer being completely irrational towards like the gay community and things like that
00:24:50
Speaker
but then when you look at things nowadays and you're just like well all of these points still stand up and I don't just mean that one there's like hundreds of examples where you look at it and they're clearly satirizing a particular bubble and obviously not all of them are going to be applicable today but the fact is that because there's certain social issues that haven't really evolved then those jokes still hold up and some of them are universal some of them are things that still pop up but then others you're just like Jesus Christ
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah, there are certainly some that don't age particularly well. I mean, I'm not necessarily talking from like the first few seasons kind of thing. My partner and I were watching some season 15 episodes of the day. There's been several episodes in a row where like we look at each other and Jesus says like, can they do that? And I'm like, it was a different time. 2003. Even when I was watching the film, which came out in 2007, there's some jokes and that where I'm just like, really? This is
00:25:46
Speaker
This is a bit peculiar but yeah, no, I know what you mean. That's definitely for next week as well. Why do we talk about that? But yeah, there's just some issues that definitely I hate to say hold up because you would like things would have changed. But speaking of cameos of social issues, one of the other things that we both agreed on was the
00:26:08
Speaker
use of guest stars. So this has been quite a controversial issue in the realm of The Simpsons because nowadays it seems as if a lot of celebrities who go on, they just kind of want another notch on their belt to be like, oh look, I've been in The Simpsons as myself. There's the infamous Lady Gaga episode, there's the terrible Tony Hawk episode where it's literally just Tony Hawk, there's Elon Musk
00:26:33
Speaker
Elon Musk was a particularly dark episode. They were just falling over each other to just praise him. And I was going to say something a lot more around grotesque, but they went head and shoulders to kiss his feet and just talk about how great he is, which I think kind of falls back on maybe, uh, I don't know if John Schwartz Walderer was kind of having influence there, but I mean, he might've had some interest in having a fellow politically leaning compatriot on the show.
00:26:55
Speaker
Again, this is something that I thought, okay, I've nailed this issue down. This has to be something that Old Simpsons never did, but New Simpsons did in the sense that they never made them characters as much in the new ones. And while that is kind of prevalent for a lot of it, there is an episode, weirdly enough, it's Daniel Radcliffe of all people who plays like a boy that befriends Bart into joining a falcon
00:27:21
Speaker
Well, there's a really weird episode that's not great, but again, they've put Daniel Radcliffe as a character. They've not just said, oh, here's Daniel Radcliffe, as opposed to that terrible, terrible episode with JK Rowling. Yeah, they go to London. It's one of my least favourite episodes, but without, again, we'll get into it next week. But the way they treated the celebrities there, where they're just like, oh, look, it's former Prime Minister Tony Blair. Oh, look, it's E. McKellen, JK Rowling. You know, there was no clever myths
00:27:48
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that Tony Blair was still the Prime Minister at that point, so I think that they just got the Prime Minister to come on to The Simpsons, which is just such a weird thing to do. What was Tony Blair doing? For legal reasons I'm going to avoid that question, because otherwise we won't be going down the rabbit hole. I suppose it's better that he was doing that rather than... I know why I'm cutting out this episode!
00:28:16
Speaker
Oh, the censorship is strong. Going back to episodes and the golden age, you've got celebrities who play themselves. You've got Leonard Nimoy, you've got Barry White, you've got James Woods. They're all really funny. I mean, technically you've got Paul McCartney, he's there. And also that guy that was the famous Buddhist when they had that Buddhist episode. Yeah, I forgot about that.
00:28:39
Speaker
Hold again, it was the guy that put a hamster up his butt. Was that not a safe part of Gear? Yeah, but I mean it was based on like a rumor about him. Was it Patrick Gear? No. Michael Gear? Something Gear. Richard Gear. Is it Richard Gear? Erm, I have no idea. Google it. Googled Richard Gear for hamster butt. I actually am going to Google the stench Richard. Yeah, get me hamster up his bitty
Guest Stars and Their Influence
00:29:02
Speaker
hole.
00:29:06
Speaker
And so I googled that just to fact check. The second result is a highly questionable cultural history of Richard Gere's ass terrible.
00:29:17
Speaker
Oh my God, that's so funny. Someone had to write Ash, but oh, that's hilarious. I'm bringing this back to The Simpsons' apologies. But you had celebrities that played themselves and they were absolutely hilarious. Get into a topic that we didn't really intend to get into in this episode, but just what then is the difference? Because that's quite an interesting point that I kind of attributed like, oh, in The Good Simpsons, they would have the famous guest stars come in and voice characters that weren't just themselves. And that was much more interesting.
00:29:44
Speaker
But then I can also think about some classic episodes where they have just guest stars just playing themselves in the show. And they don't really treat them any differently to how they do in the later seasons. It's still like, oh, look, it's Richard Gere, famous Buddhist. And like, how's that really any different to like, oh, look, it's Prime Minister Tony Blair. Do you think that there is a distinction between how they deal with it?
00:30:03
Speaker
think for the most part. And again, it's a very blurred line, you're completely right. But one of the ones I was kind of thinking of there was when they got Leonard Nimoy into the Monorail episode. He does nothing in that episode, he's just there. But he has that amazing line. And then he just beams up. See, that line is so memorable in the other library.
00:30:25
Speaker
I was crusty and he goes, no, the world needs laughter. I think it's just the direction or the use of them in those particular roles, because it's like James Wood takes over the Quickie Mart in one of the episodes and he's just got so many funny lines because they give him a purpose. Like at the very end where he says he's going to a distant planet to fight aliens or something, if Marge goes, that sounds like a good movie and he goes, yes, movie.
00:30:50
Speaker
It's such a funny line, and I think it's because they give them things to do. It's not just like the Elon Musk episode where they kiss his butt, or the Lazy Gaga episode where they kiss her butt, or, you know, there's a lot of butt kissing. That is a fantastic point, just the use of the characters is different. They still introduce them in a very similar way, but they are able to utilise them in a way that isn't so protective.
00:31:14
Speaker
I guess, of that celebrity's image. I'm gonna go on record. James Wood is an awful person, but they are able to sort of have a bit of fun with him in that episode. And likewise with Leonard Nimoy. Whereas as you're saying, they're walking on eggshells around a lot of the celebrity appearances in later seasons. They aren't able to really do anything fun or interesting.
00:31:33
Speaker
example is Homer at the Bat, where they have not really relevant to us not really knowing much about baseball, particularly 90s baseball, but you have all these baseball stars in there. And so many of them were down to have their likeness put into sort of ridiculous situations and one of them dies. But there was actually one scene that was cut and changed because it featured one of the baseball players in a hot tub with Mrs. Krabappel and another female character.
00:32:00
Speaker
here, and the baseball player's wife vetoed the scene. So there are still some people who are protective of it, but I guess it does seem like there was less eggshells being avoided with some of the earlier seasons. ALICE Because I mean, even with the less favourable episodes, like one of the ones I'm thinking of is the parody of The Bodyguard with Mark Hamill, and there's another episode with Stephen Hawking where they turn his wheelchair into like a mini helicopter at one point.
00:32:29
Speaker
the cheating seasons. Yeah, like those are episodes that, although again they're kind of going out of the Golden Age as it were, but it does show that they still have that daringness to make fun of, or not make fun of, but prod fun at them. I mean look at Arnold Schwarzenegger with Radio Wolf Castle, like he is just a direct parody of all the Arnie films that came out during that time. Arnold Schwarzenegger's not in it though, is that Harry Shearer or Hank Azaria? I'm not sure what
00:32:58
Speaker
I actually don't know if he's been on that, to be honest. They had him in The Simpsons movie, but I don't think you've actually voiced the character. I think it was just the same guy who voices Rainier Wolfcastle. Yeah, it was. It was just exactly the same character. But going back to some of the cameos
00:33:13
Speaker
as it were or the celebrities that they actually got in. You've got Johnny Cash who plays a hallucinogenic coyote which funny enough I was watching a season 33 episode the other day and they actually referenced that coyote and that is something that I have noticed in a slight tangent because I think the meme ability has helped it especially with the celebrities. You've got Glenn Close who came in to voice Homer's mum
00:33:39
Speaker
Is that going close? I don't know. Interesting. I never knew that. And you've got, of course, Kelsey Grammar, who plays Sycho Bulb. And because Sycho Bulb is such an integral and dynamic character, he always makes a presence. That's the difference between a good celebrity versus just someone that stands there and is just there for the sake of being there. Do you remember the episode where Bart falls down the well? Yes. I completely forgot about this episode because I was like,
00:34:08
Speaker
I'm looking at the list just now. I'm like, when did Sting voice someone? And do you remember when he's digging the hole and Marge says, Sting, you look a bit tired, maybe you should rest. And he's like, not while one of my fans needs me. And Marge says, actually, I've never heard Bart play any of your songs. And so it was just like, Marge, he's good at digging.
00:34:27
Speaker
It's just again, it's like it's prodding fun at the guest stars. So that of course leads us on to a point that I very firmly believe in that makes this show so memorable today and that is the emotional core of the Golden Age.
Emotional Depth in The Simpsons
00:34:44
Speaker
So don't get me wrong, there are some
00:34:46
Speaker
emotional episodes in the very later seasons, but personally I don't think it holds a candle compared to these particular episodes. And to list off a few off the top of my head, you've got Bart gets an F, the one where Bart breaks down because he realizes he's not as academically minded as everyone else, they can't concentrate. You've got Lisa's substitute, again Lisa's trying to find comfort in this
00:35:11
Speaker
substitute teacher who almost becomes like a pseudo parental figure and Maggie makes three, that's the one where Homer has that big poster at the end to do it for her. Mother Simpson, I've raved about that episode so many times but again it's such an emotionally tugging episode, especially when you get to the very end.
00:35:30
Speaker
and yell out, kind of ruminate in your mind. You've got one fish, two fish, blow fish, blue fish, which is the one I'm sure where Homer nearly dies because of Fugu. Remember the poisonous blowfish? And that episode stuck with me for the longest time. I don't know about you, but that was really hard-titting. That's the one where he thinks he's eating a particularly poisoned fish, and he basically creates a bucket list and spends his last days with his family.
00:35:58
Speaker
and then of course you've got another one Marge not be proud where Marge suddenly realises that she can't police Bart's behaviour after he tries to steal a game so she becomes very cold and distant and just almost gives up on them and it's something that when you're watching it because it's something you brought up earlier that when you're watching it when you're younger or a child you don't really get these themes
00:36:20
Speaker
as much whereas when you get older you get a bit more life experience you start to think Jesus this really hits hard this is like a very serious issue they're talking about and things but I feel as if for the golden age in particular this is something that they did really well but what are your thoughts on it?
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a very crucial part of The Simpsons' longevity that they're able to both hold the funny stick and also a box of tissues. On the other hand, they're so capable of writing storylines that kind of tug at the heartstrings. You've listed off a whole bunch there, I can list off.
00:36:54
Speaker
a lot more. I think particularly scenes and episodes in which we see a conflict resolution and sort of quote like Lisa and Ice when Bart and Lisa are in opposing hockey teams and they kind of come together at the end of the episode and sort of embrace and remember their siblings and they see this little like montage of them kind of growing up together and supporting each other. There's other great times with Lisa and coming to terms with the death of Bleeding Gunless Murphy and from some more modern episodes, Mrs. Krabappel's death, sort of dealing with the death of
00:37:23
Speaker
her was very interesting and dealt with in a very somber and it was well done the way it was done. It was a very appropriate way. You've mentioned about Lisa substitute, you've mentioned about Maggie Makes Three. There's so much there within the show that really gets to you in an emotional level.
00:37:38
Speaker
Homer's relationship with his mother, Homer's relationship with his father, the Simpsons just as a family and they're resolving conflict with each other and just supporting each other always gets you. There's so much that even like the more comedic episodes, they'll often be kind of a scene that is just so lovely like Homer talking to Lisa at her wedding in the future to console her after or just reminding her of who she is and how he'll support her in this marriage. He's proud of her.
00:38:01
Speaker
just kind of a few examples I can think of. It's such a crucial element of the show that they are able to weave in such emotional storylines into a very silly show. KM Because the thing is, with The Simpsons, at least back in the 90s and the early 2000s, mainly the 90s I would say, but the main thing about it was you had very prominent political figures like George Bush Sr. saying things like,
00:38:27
Speaker
people should be a lot more like The Waltons and less like The Simpsons and everything. And it is weird to think that back then this was the show that was so controversial. Like, nowadays you'd probably say, I don't know, South Park or
00:38:42
Speaker
Family Guy, you know, those kind of prominent shows that have taken the mantle of being the controversial ones as opposed to what The Simpsons used to be, but when you cloak the show itself in this manner of, oh it's counter-cultural, oh it's just a funny ha-ha of these yellow cartoon characters that are just doing things for laughs and everything and that of course is coupled with the perception of cartoons being for children as well, which don't get me wrong, it's something that I feel as if
00:39:12
Speaker
is a bit more diminished nowadays, it's not like fully gone, but I can imagine especially in the 90s, because I used to watch The Simpsons when I was younger, and I remember there were some particularly heavy episodes that my parents would actually turn off.
00:39:27
Speaker
were that bad. Clearly not appropriate for me but it's that idea though that because you know oh it's a cartoon and everything that maybe people think oh it's just gonna be a whole bunch of jokes, a whole bunch of memes and everything and especially nowadays in kind of contemporary times you think it might have not been as good as we thought it was especially with the bulk of the show perceived as being terrible which
00:39:51
Speaker
Again, that's a conversation for another day, but when you look back on it, you see some really heavy-hitting stuff. Again, you have the whole concept of The Simpsons having to struggle, having to deal with societal issues, having to deal with very human issues like jealousy and rage. I mean, there was an episode on the other day that I completely forgot
00:40:11
Speaker
about where Barr gets entered into a putting competition against Rod Flanders. Homer gets so angry at Flanders success that he bets that he'll mow the lawn in his wife's Sunday best and vice versa. In the end they both decide to pull out the tournament so they both have to do that. The other episode, again it's a Flanders centric episode with the left thorium where Flanders gets the left-handed centric
00:40:40
Speaker
shop and it goes out of business because Homer doesn't help him. There's so many moments that are comical, but there is that emotional core that runs through it and eventually it's kind of a parody of It's a Wonderful Life by the end of it that they all band together.
00:40:55
Speaker
help him. You know, it's like a very nice ending that they wrap a bow around, but that is something that I think sticks with people beyond the jokes and everything. It's a show that makes you care, and that kind of brings me on to the penultimate point that we've got here. That of course being the characterisation of the characters, and there's been arguments in the past that the characters aren't what they used to be, and the words of that geriatric character, you know, that drops his shoes as one goes,
00:41:23
Speaker
What do you used to be? What do you used to be? And I don't know why that was the first thought. I thought of that line. But yeah, the fact is that they have changed. It's been over 30 years since the show has come out. There's no denying that things have to evolve and change. They have to try different things. But the way they were characterised, they were characterised in a very relatable way. And I do think that does kind of tie into the emotional side of it. But what do you think about that, though?
00:41:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that the Simpsons universe is very interesting. And I was having this conversation with my partner the other day about the sheer depth of characters for various roles within the show, within the Springfield network.
Character Development in The Simpsons
00:42:06
Speaker
They've kind of established
00:42:08
Speaker
a character for each situation that the Simpsons might encounter. They have not one, but two different doctors. They have the reliable one and the kind of more crackpot one. They have a variety of teachers in the school. They have both the principal and the superintendent, which are both recurring characters.
00:42:24
Speaker
They have all the variety of school peers, sometimes introducing new ones and a lot of times utilizing existing characters. They have the convenience store clerk. They have various members of the police department. One of the only things we don't really have like a consistent character for is the mailman because we were watching Bob's Burgers at the time and there is like a recurring mailman character.
00:42:43
Speaker
and I was saying how interesting it is that the Bob's Burgers world, while still quite fleshed out, is nearly as fleshed out as The Simpsons, and yet they have a mailman character which The Simpsons don't really have, unless I'm forgetting one and you're gonna correct me that there is some Joe with a mailman or something like that. No, I feel
00:42:58
Speaker
as if the mailman characters, one of those generic background characters, the same as the squeaky voice teenager and the eeee guy. I don't know what he's called but yeah. I think he's called it the like wise cracking something, I can't remember his name now, but he's sometimes like a UPS style like delivery person, not like the US mail person but more so private deliveries. So I guess there is, there's
00:43:22
Speaker
kind of someone that fits that role, but not really. You also do have, as you kind of mentioned, some of the characters will be deployed across a range of different roles, like Lindsay Nagel, who's like the businesswoman, and she'll be an insert for any time you kind of need a uptight businesswoman character. Or until his unfortunate passing, you had Lionel Hutz, who was at times a lawyer, and then also filling into certain other roles, like a real estate agent. I think he's been in other jobs around town as well. Because I mean, Phil Hartman also does Troy McClure as well.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yes, of course. But yeah, there seems to be a lot of doubling up for these extra characters, which is really quite a strange thing. You're completely right, considering there is just this fleshed out world of The Simpsons. You've got entertainers, as you said, you've got the doctors, you've got teachers and
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, you've just got so many that cover a broad range of careers. You've got the policemen of course as well and the fact that certain roles aren't really filled out. Yeah, it's quite interesting that over 30 years unless there's like a recent episode, because I'm looking at them just now just to make sure that I'm not forgetting anybody, but I mean even the mailman, you're right, there's like 50 different types of mailman here
00:44:35
Speaker
and again you've got the same for the squeaky voice teen where you've got the retail roles, the fast food roles, those kind of perceived menial roles that they just shove at the teenager who's just earning a couple extra bucks a week. Yeah, it's
00:44:51
Speaker
And it's quite strange in that way. It comes back full circle. I've just looked up the mailman on The Simpsons Wiki. And so there's two kind of iconic mailman scenes, and the mailman is like unnamed. But there's the scene where Marge runs over him with her car. She has like a deer coming outdoors. So she stays inside while he's like crushed, and she's like apologizing to him. And then in the Elon Musk episode, Elon Musk crushes the mailman again, breaking his leg. But the mailman then calls his wife, we're like, oh my God, Elon Musk crushed my leg. I'm so lucky kind of thing.
00:45:19
Speaker
so it kind of comes back full circle to complete me here the sucking of Elon Musk. I'm gonna need to get a better blip inside.
00:45:27
Speaker
See, this is one of the slight issues though with characterisation in The Golden Age, because although The Simpsons, as we've established several times, it was a very counter-culture show, it was very different to other shows at the time, it still had to preserve the status quo, and of course that being that everything had to relatively reset itself. For example, one of the most popular examples is Homer was in his job, and you know, he goes away and does
00:45:57
Speaker
I don't know, like some hair brain scheme and the next episode always back to the power plant as the safety inspector of Sector 7G and it's like okay, you know, you've got Marge, she'll like do a job or something but it's like it's okay, it'll go back to normal in the next episode and they did start branching out a little bit. This is the weird thing about the Simpsons because although they were adamant in keeping the status quo, there's some episodes that did diverge from that and this actually loads on
00:46:25
Speaker
perfectly to one of the points that you'd made. Of course, this is our final point. That of course being the evolution of the show, because you get some changes that actually stuck with the characters. So for example, Lisa becoming a Buddhist and a vegetarian, Homer being part of the B-sharps, because you see in later episodes that they've got a picture in most tavern of them all in the B-sharps. There's also references to Homer in space. There's a level of continuity there.
00:46:53
Speaker
except for the very infamous one of Homer and Marge meeting that'll save my victory all for next week's episode on that. But going back to you though, what are your thoughts then on the evolution of the show? I think what is so interesting about The Simpsons, and it is both one of the best things about it, and also its detriment in some ways, is its ability to evolve with not necessarily just the times, but just evolve as a show itself. If you're watching it chronologically,
00:47:21
Speaker
you do see kind of the difference from season one and two to how they've changed the characters. They've kind of figured out who the characters are by I would say either midway through season two to early season three. This format is kind of being more established and the actions of various characters are being more established. Someone like Ralph Wiggum
00:47:40
Speaker
the earlier seasons was still just one of the school chums in Lisa or Bart's class. I can't remember which he is in. And it isn't until probably season four, maybe five that we establish him as being more of a, I say simpleton. I don't know if that's necessarily the correct word, but a challenged individual. Sorry, just to quickly jump in. There's that weird scene in that episode with Lisa's pony. Do you remember that? Yeah, where I think Millhouse and Ralph are next to each other. And Ralph says like a line that you wouldn't expect him as a character to say.
00:48:10
Speaker
Yeah, he says it in a kind of raspy voice that goes, yes, but what man could tame her or something like that in this place? Whoa! What the f... It's like expecting Homer, you know that episode where he gets baptized and he's like, oh Bartholomew, I feel like in the early comes away with the religious dialogue in Flanders. It's like, what did you say? It's a church of rice lander. It's exactly like that. You definitely wouldn't be able to expect that.
00:48:33
Speaker
No, there's certainly an evolution both from a character perspective, from character-character, and also from the show and its comedy, which is to be expected when you're kind of going through as many writers and showrunners as The Simpsons has had. Josh Weinstein and Bill Oakley kind of run, is one of the more better known runs from showrunners, that they had a very key period in The Simpsons as a show. I think they ran like seasons
00:48:56
Speaker
four to like seven or something like that, which includes some of our favorite, our personal favorites. I know that yours and my favorite seasons are within that kind of run. I know they didn't write every episode within those runs, but they certainly had an influence in the writer's room with many of them. The tone of the show shifts over time that you see some things like the sight gags on signs are more prevalent in some seasons than others. Sometimes it's subverted humor is more prevalent in certain seasons than other, particularly I think, I'd say seasons like nine till 12 is particularly prevalent for its subverted humor.
00:49:25
Speaker
And then you have, I can't necessarily break down the season that like after the mid-teen seasons as to what necessarily their structure and tone and the evolution of them are, but that might be something that we dive a little bit more into next week. But just that there is, particularly within what we know as the golden age of The Simpsons, that the reason that those seasons are so interesting is that there is a level of evolution in the show that keeps it fresh. And I think that's very important for a show and certainly helped with its longevity.
00:49:53
Speaker
Again, it is something that has happened and it's an inevitability for any show. I mean, if Chatsunami lasts nearly as long as the Simpsons is going to change significantly. Yeah, it's one of these shows that every so often they'll throw in a bit of lore that evolves the lore of Springfield.
00:50:14
Speaker
You know, as weird as that sounds to say, as I said, with Lisa the Vegetarian, with Homer's many jobs that they keep bringing up, and again, with some things in the past, they're a bit loose to goosey, especially with Marge and Homer meeting in the 90s instead of the 70s, which I get why they did it, but it's not a choice. I was very happy at the time, you know, you have
00:50:37
Speaker
I think it was Selma coming out as being a lesbian he had. I mean this is like later things where they also gave Comic Book Guy, a long-term girlfriend as well, as things that they do throughout the entire run they'll throw in a particular point and then they'll just keep it in the show to evolve it. But something that I thought was quite interesting, especially looking at later seasons, is they are almost an ability to let go of the past
00:51:06
Speaker
which sounds very, very weird to say because obviously The Simpsons is in the same continuity and everything. There was one particular moment in a Season 33 episode that I was talking to you about that relates to one of my favourite episodes, Mother Simpson, and basically in this Season 33 episode, Homer gets a postcard from his mum and he ends up going to a
00:51:29
Speaker
think it's Arizona, and seeing his mum, and then his mum has to run away because she's discovered by the FBI. And that completely contradicts Season 7 with Homer thinking that his mum's dead, and that is one of the core things of that particular character art.
00:51:46
Speaker
that he was so emotionally damaged because of the absence of his mother in his life and having a very overbearing father figure. And don't get me wrong, again, I'm not one of these guys who's like, you know, the pitchy and scratchy and poochy episode hitting the same rib and getting two different keys. I hope someone was fired for that blunder. But you know, I'm not saying that at all. But you've got so many moments of that where they keep trying to bring up past events. When did you say that Mona died in the earlier seasons?
00:52:16
Speaker
I know there's an episode where she communicates with Homer through the newspaper with the first letter of each line. Yeah, that's another episode. So for everyone listening, I just looked up the episode when Mona passes away and the title of it is Mona leaves her and it's the 19th season. Which is weird that they still hold on to those particular moments because as I brought up before, you've got the coyote, you've got a very weird meta joke where Homer sends a gift of himself going into the bushes to
00:52:46
Speaker
Lisa. Lisa visits these people who are very educated and very classically trained and everything, and as she's there, Homer texts her and says, where's my phone? And she says, you're texting from it. And he literally sends, you know that scene, that exact scene from, I can't remember the exact episode, but the one where he befriends Flanders. Oh, I thought it was the one where Homer was accused of sexual assault. I've been seeing that gif for years now and thinking the wrong episode. Well, I'm glad to see you.
00:53:15
Speaker
I guess. Yeah, no, it is that one because he emerges and he says to Ned, oh, what are we doing today? And he's like, oh, I'm just having a quiet day with the boys or something. He's like, oh, OK. And then he sinks back into it. But going back to that episode, that's what he does. He takes this gif of himself from an episode in the past.
00:53:35
Speaker
past. I have to admit this, they'd get a laugh at me right enough. There's a scene where they refer to the Michael Jackson episode where we says like, remember when Mum and Dad let a complete stranger sleep in your room and then they sang Happy Birthday to us and Bart's like, yeah, that was weird. The 90s was a different time or something like that.
00:53:52
Speaker
And I thought, OK, that's pretty funny. But again, it's this anchor into the past, because in the teen seasons, you see a lot of self-deprecating humor and being a Sonic fan, I know all about that. But you see a lot of self-deprecating humor of, oh, we're not as good as we used to be. Isn't this funny? It's like, well, no, because if you keep beating yourself, then it doesn't get funny or it just gets sad at some point. So, yeah, they have this kind of anchor to the past. But at the same time,
00:54:22
Speaker
that's a testament to how popular this show is becoming. It is in part a testament to that but I think the fact that the later seasons do feel like they need to reference the earlier seasons almost feels like a cling to nostalgia. We've done this a couple of times already but we are diving into a topic that we're going to go into
00:54:39
Speaker
lot more depth about and probably cover a lot of the things we've said already today in about the decline of The Simpsons. But it is a show that has evolved and kept up to an extent with the times, for better or worse, that you'll have a scene where they're doing the Harlem Shake or flossing or referencing Marvel movies, that you have characters that were once Vietnam veterans that now it makes no sense for them to have been Vietnam veterans given the timeline and
00:55:04
Speaker
It's a very tricky one to walk on that you're not aging these characters in any way, but the world around them is changing. So how do you get someone who, someone like Bart, who's very much a character of the 90s, of the late 80s, early 90s, like how do you represent him in a way that young people today will still be able to relate to?
00:55:23
Speaker
And it was interesting, I was listening to an episode of the podcast analyzing the character of Otto and how deep rooted that character is in the early nineties and how like they don't really use him very much anymore. There has not been any auto centric episodes after the Otto show, which was quite an early season. I don't know if you remember that one or where Otto comes to live with them.
00:55:44
Speaker
He's like a punk headbanger kind of character and the way they kind of utilize him in more modern episodes is like the stoner character and that's the only place that they can kind of fit him in because the kind of music scene that Otto is interested in isn't really prevalent anymore.
00:56:01
Speaker
the character of Otto was supposed to kind of be like advice figure to Bart that Bart could go and speak to him and like relate to him like he was the only adult that Bart could go and speak to and get advice from and then that character slowly phased out of being able to do that and didn't really exist anymore. Oh I mean if you think that's bad you should see what they did to Mayor Quimby. I mean he was dated in the 90s I suppose because he was like a Kennedy
00:56:24
Speaker
I was going to say he was supposed to be like a Kennedy. He was supposed to be an insert corrupt politician, but kind of with the eye of being a Kennedy. I mean, especially with the vocal range. Let's just say the way he speaks is. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It could be an Einspring feel that far. Yeah, it's very, well, maybe dated, but
00:56:44
Speaker
I think at the time it was still relevant to make those kind of jokes but it's certain that of course we will get into more in depth next week but you make a great point. It is interesting to see how while the show has kind of grown from the golden age and everything, we still go back to those roots to see where these characters came from
00:57:07
Speaker
And some characters have completely grown arms and legs, I mean for goodness sake Trusty ends up getting a daughter at one point, Fat Tony dies at one point and then they just replace the status quo and just say oh yeah this is Fat Tony now nobody question it. You've got the Arm and Trans Aryan episode which again that's probably going to be a focal point in next week but
00:57:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and this is probably my closing statement, Your Honour, but I do feel as if the impact of The Simpsons, not only within the show itself, because as we mentioned at the very beginning, you've got merchandise, you've got outside media that complements it, but none of it would have been able to thrive, because I don't think anyone would have bought a Bart Simpson figure if not for the
Impact on Pop Culture and Conclusion
00:57:52
Speaker
show. You know, they would have been like, what the hell is this?
00:57:54
Speaker
you look at the Simpsons, this is going to sound really weird, but if you look at the Simpsons, they are pretty weird looking. You know, it's like bright yellow characters that have four digits and they're very cartoonish shaped. And after that, this is something that Matt Groening has gone on record with saying that he hates the animation for the old episodes, but I'm going to throw a counterpoint in there because I know he's the creator and everything, so his word is final. But I'm
00:58:20
Speaker
I feel as if there is quite a, maybe just a nostalgia to it as the right way to say it, because that's the type of animation we grew up with. But at the same time though, is that developing identity goes into that thing of evolution. It's them slowly finding themselves and finding their place and their identity in pop culture.
00:58:39
Speaker
And unfortunately, like many things in pop culture, they're going to lose relevance over time, and that's especially the case with the Simpsons, so it's had to adapt. At the end of the day, the evolution of the Simpsons will never take away the impact that it had on pop culture, not only in America, but worldwide.
00:58:58
Speaker
Just kind of going back on what you were saying about Matt Groening, there are certain things that he really does not like. In the older Simpsons, they do rubbernecking, which essentially, for those who aren't familiar, it's when Bart will kind of wind his neck to the side and then ping back facing forward to say what he was about to say.
00:59:14
Speaker
It accentuates what the characters are saying, and I think it's quite dated in its style. You wouldn't really want to see it anymore, but I think it adds a level of charm to those older episodes that I think would be maybe not missing, but I certainly think it improves those scenes with the men.
00:59:29
Speaker
certainly elements that he really does not like. And there was funny kind of moments that during the run of Futurama in the early 2000s, Matt Groening's attention was kind of more towards making that like a successful show. So he wasn't paying as close attention to The Simpsons. And so there's a lot of things that he really didn't like they could kind of get away with the bosses and in so we'll, we'll have a little bit of fun kind of thing.
00:59:50
Speaker
And so there's some really clear elements to those seasons that if you kind of go back and listen to the commentary tracks, which Matt Groening is on, he's like, not a fan of that, wish they hadn't done that. And we haven't really praised the animation of Klasky Chupo, I think, as the animation studio that kind of worked with The Simpsons. I don't know if they continued their run with them, but they were there from the very start doing the animation work for The Simpsons. Their style is very, very interesting. It evolved.
01:00:13
Speaker
along the years to the more standard animation that we see in the mid to late 90s and to the more three-dimensional modern style we see now. What's quite an interesting point that I've heard is that the newer characters that are introduced in The Simpsons, so those that weren't the original group, look more like normal people. When you see a character that hasn't been on there for a while, like Return, it really points to how cartoonish
01:00:38
Speaker
The original style was there was an episode in season 34, which is a season that at the time this recording is currently airing, where Marge is bowling instructor whose name escapes me right now. He returns and his head is gigantic. His nose is like really bulbous, but that's like how the characters looked in those seasons. That is kind of like a standard season one, season two looking character.
01:01:02
Speaker
And when he kind of comes back after 30 years of not being on the show, you really take a step back and you're like, whoa, he looks so out of place. Even though we're seeing all of our characters, the Simpsons and the Ensemble Springfield cast also look like that. But because any kind of character that we've not been conditioned to seeing frequently, it stands out more, I think. What you were saying there about Matt Groening absolutely
01:01:24
Speaker
communicating certain characters and, you know, the designs and things of the earlier series. Like, first of all, I do think that maybe season 3 onwards is when they did start to find their footing. Yeah, it did remind me of a particular video I saw from a YouTuber called KidLeaf's
01:01:46
Speaker
I think is the name, and it's a video titled The Simpsons No-No Sheets, and it basically stems from Mac Greening's desire for more consistency in the animation, and one of the main things that they bring up is the, and I don't know if you remember this, there is a particular set of
01:02:04
Speaker
characters who appear only in the opening of I think season one and they're waiting at a bus stop but you never see them beyond that. They're not in the background or anything, they're just like a random set of characters and they don't really ascribe to the newer designs. Things like they don't want people with similar haircuts to bark for example and they don't want the big wide eyes or anything or narrow eyes that don't conform
01:02:34
Speaker
to the way that they want them drawn from now on and it's an absolutely fascinating video you know it talks about in particular just the details and the body structure the facial structure the way they're animated and things and there has definitely been again using that word evolution there has been that but it
01:02:52
Speaker
is a shame in a way that although granted the animation for the later seasons are a lot better. Like I'm not going to sit here and say oh the older ones were better on a technical level because it definitely seems as if they are better now but in being better and cleaner animation they have lost that sense of personality I suppose is the right word
01:03:14
Speaker
they have lost a part of themselves that endeared audiences and don't get me wrong, I completely agree with them on some of the rubbernecking like see when Bart looks one way but his mouth's going to Canada on the other way and you're like what is going on here? I do agree, I feel as if that's maybe too over the top and ingrained in future seasons but that's one of the problems I had with the teen seasons that
01:03:39
Speaker
the animation felt a bit wet, they weren't as expressive because it was that transitional period between calving them down from the first couple of seasons into what they would eventually become nowadays, but once again that is another story for next week. On that note,
01:03:56
Speaker
Andrew, thank you so much for going down memory lane for what makes The Simpsons so good and so memorable today. That's why I was talking a little bit about Simpsons Media as a whole. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun to talk about The Simpsons in a more general way and go into depth about some ideas that we both had as to the strengths and weaknesses of The Simpsons.
01:04:16
Speaker
And yeah, I learned a lot about—is it Richard Geer, did you say? I learned a lot about him and his anthropological exploits, that's all we'll say. On that note, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode today. Next week, we are indeed going to be talking about the decline of the substance, the downfall
01:04:35
Speaker
that'll be a really interesting episode I think for us to discuss because we've brought up a lot of very interesting points about what we initially thought would have been the downfall but as we've discovered there you know it applies to the golden age as well so it'll be fun to go back and maybe evaluate our stances on what actually made The Simpsons fall from grace but before we wrap up if you want to listen to more of our episodes including our very fantastic episodes on
01:05:02
Speaker
what our favourite seasons of The Simpsons were. Then you can check that out on all good podcast apps, as well as our website, podpager.com or slash chatsandamic. I also want to thank our patrons of this episode, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya. Thank you so much for supporting the channel. But if you'd like to check out what goodies they have access to for being pandalorian patrons, then you can check out exclusive episodes and content
01:05:27
Speaker
patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami but until then stay safe stay awesome and most importantly let's get some chocolate frosty milkshakes