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fixated on time looping and looping and looping
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Heyy! Welcome back to Fixated with Joelle and Ellen! Have you ever wondered what you'd do if you were Bill Murray in Groundhog Day? Have you ever wondered if you're being a feminist when you 'like' and 'mmhmm'? Somehow in this episode, we cover it all and more. Enjoy!!
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Music: House loops 107 simple mix down tempo.wav by josefpres License: Creative Commons 0
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Transcript
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back to Fixated, a podcast with us, Ellen and Joelle. I'm Ellen. And I'm Joelle. This is the show where we talk about all the media and culture and stuff that we just can't look away from.
00:00:17
Speaker
Stuff we just can't seem to get over. And why it matters so, so much to us. In this episode, we talk about language and communication, and then we pivot a little bit to talking about time loops as they appear in movies, TV, all sorts of stuff. It's great episode. Enjoy. Here we are both in strange different locations. Backgrounds for both of us today. Exactly. Exactly. And of course this is off screen, but a very different foreground for me as well. Staring at something of a Glaswegian skyline.
00:00:52
Speaker
Beautiful. I'm staring into a beautiful lake at the moment. Crazy how big the world is. You know what i mean? oh my God. And modern technology can still connect us. Yeah. How's your location? Yeah.
00:01:05
Speaker
It's great. It's nice. I'm at a lake for the weekend. Lake. Lovely. how it yes How's Glasgow? Glasgow's awesome. I'm not a stranger to the UK, to UK states, UK vibes, um but I've never been to Scotland.
00:01:18
Speaker
um And i think just the journey in getting here, because we had some... um travel issues. We got here a day later than we were supposed to. Like that day was supposed to be like our first like walk around Glasgow, see what we can see, you know, that type of thing. So that was cut cut out.
00:01:36
Speaker
And so then we like got there. And then the first day that we were properly in Scotland was um we went on like a bus tour. So we like didn't see the city at all. I love a bus tour. Yeah, it was really sick though. Like, of course it was. So the Highlands and like Glencoe and a bunch of locks, including, including Loch Ness and just like sickening, stunning. I've been waiting to see like Scottish scenery for a long time now, Loki. um And so it was, it was awesome to see. It's one of those things where you're like there and you're like, dang, this is like crazy. You're like, what the hell? And then you're like, okay, well that, you know, but also you're like,
00:02:16
Speaker
present and then you look at the pictures and you're like dang that's crazy like why was i there like what's going on and then the second day was also raining and we went to edinburgh and was like cool but that's what i mean so then once i we were like properly in glasgow i kind of was just like don't even know what's going on here for real and it took a second to get used to it in a way but i think i quite like it it's kind of cool lovely nice that's my review come to scotland we'll see what I get up to tonight on the weekend. I might have to solo journey a little bit as more drink and watch a football game or whatever. let' See if Norway will be England.
00:02:55
Speaker
um Right. Which low key I want to happen for almost no reason. Exactly. We're all team Norway, right? Like, yeah, right. like No offense to our English listeners of which I know there is at least one.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, i I saw someone on like, um on Substack, I think the sentiment has been shared before, but I saw someone be like, I'm only interested in World Cup games where there's colonial implications. like Exactly.
00:03:19
Speaker
i was like, yeah, and that's pretty much. That's why it was really important, I think, two years ago, the um the Super Bowl that was the Eagles versus the Kansas City Chiefs.
00:03:29
Speaker
Because that's exactly what that represented. They represented evil. Yes, exactly. Yeah, an exactly. And that's what the World Cup is. Sometimes that's what the Olympics is. Basically. I mean, it's actually completely, though. Like, it's actually kind of interesting and in some cases disturbing. Like, we do not fuck with Argentina. I'm so sorry. Yeah.
00:03:48
Speaker
We just don't. Got no black people on that team at all. Are we kidding? No. And like for like political, like again, like historical political reasons of like driving people out and et cetera, et cetera, multiple violences. i was like, yeah, no. i was talking to someone, a coworker who um like was more into soccer than I was. And we were chit chatting about it. This was early, early World Cup days. And I was like, okay, well, who are we, who are we rooting for? and he said, okay, well, I think the American game is this day, this day, this day. I was like, that is not what I asked you. That's not what I asked. That's... Who am I rooting for? I don't... um yeah I don't care about the U.S. team.
00:04:25
Speaker
The U.S. women's team I will be rooting for because those are my girls. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I feel like us having different backgrounds today is making this feel so much like a FaceTime that I am... It's just too...
00:04:38
Speaker
casual today you know like like yeah have it to be like hating exactly it's like we've just changed we've changed the format completely exactly um so yeah well very different vibe today exactly ellen what are your non-media fixations for this episode I've got one non-media fixation this week and it is a good one. And I know you're going to love it, Joelle. French onion dip is my main one for this week.
00:05:09
Speaker
Oh, baby. i don't have too much to say about it except for I've been confused. You don't have to say much. mean Like in a way there's nothing to say because everyone knows. yeah but Yeah.
00:05:22
Speaker
She is that bitch. Hashtag not mad. Yeah. hell of a good French onion dip with like a waffle. Oh my God. Oh my God. It is something so serious actually. Like I was home and having it with my parents, I like made them buy it at the store and they were like, Ellen, that looks weird and gross. Like, I don't know what that is. I said, okay, we're going to be purchasing it.
00:05:44
Speaker
They certainly have, but it was never like a staple in our house, but I wanted it this week. And so i we purchased some and I was eating it in front of them and they both had a little bit and then couldn't stop as you know you can't. I'm saying. Or having that.
00:05:59
Speaker
And my mom after a while was like, what did they put in this? It's otherworldly, the level of good is that that stuff is. It is. Yeah, I said it before and i'll and I just maintain it and I'll say it again and again.
00:06:13
Speaker
Like, I can't buy that. No, you can't. Or it'll be gone in my apartment. Three days. No. If that much. i don't know even why said three days. I'm thinking about like the big tub.
00:06:24
Speaker
um But like but that's gone it's too good. more too Like you cannot stop yourself once you've had some. Oh my God. It's so good. In a way that's crazy. oh yeah Like I know that it's good, but I kind of forget the level to which I can't stop myself from eating it when it's in front of me, like until it is in front of me.
00:06:43
Speaker
yeah insane yeah ah that's what i've been thinking about a lot this week because i had some and now i want more but the tub is done yeah i want that i won't be having it again until who knows maybe christmas i i feel like the only snack that like is somewhat on that level for me to i mean that one still kind of surpasses us but you know i like irrationally love a cheeto puff I knew exactly. I knew that's what you were going to say. I know because you know me. Yeah, exactly. Once I realized that I could eat a Cheeto buff.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah. It was like a moment of like realizing financial freedom. That's what it coincided with. I was like, wait, I can buy Like I hadn't had it for years. I can just have a Cheeto buff.
00:07:28
Speaker
A bag of Cheetah Puffs. Delicious. They're so good to me. so I love that. um yeah That's a great fixation and a valid one. Thank you. I think so too. and i Yeah. I support that one entirely.
00:07:41
Speaker
It's not even like i was going to say I have to cut myself off, but that's not the case because I finished it. I won't be purchasing it again. i can't. I have to lay down the law with myself. Your turn. what Have you been fixated on non-media wise is this week, Joel?
00:07:58
Speaker
Bro, I hate to disappoint, but like barely. No, I mean, because I feel like what's so like general, like I just was like travel. Yeah, the great country. United Airlines. Exactly. so shit list Like, like literally they were playing way too much mess. But yeah, so basically travel the great um country of Scotland. The people here are really nice thus far. Really loving Matt. Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, just loving being out here a little bit of a break from the norm, um from from the norm of my last few months, last like half a year plus, however long it's been. um And yeah, that's kind of nothing too deep, admittedly.
00:08:45
Speaker
Low key. mean, no, that is media. So, yeah, no. I was about to ask you to watch any good movies on the plane. Then I remembered that is also media. Yeah. Yeah, and I didn't. And that's the funny thing. I was so tired. I know. That's why I was so annoyed because just fucked up everything. I was so prepared for my long red eye flight where I down two things of red wine, put on a movie, fall asleep, wake up, probably watch a movie, another one. I love that. Literally one of life's greatest pleasures. Yeah. I'm staying.
00:09:24
Speaker
Moving on the plane. But instead, what happened was that I was up all night and then got a flight at like 830 in the morning. And so I just slept the whole time. My last long flight, I think I watched Conclave and then Challengers, which was perfect. That was the perfect flight. That's really good. That's really good. I love that. But anyways, yeah. Travel.
00:09:49
Speaker
That's my non-media fixation. but i just couldn't probably recollect anything else that has been on my mind other than yeah waking up in this beautiful country every day. That's so great. That's like a really good one, actually.
00:10:02
Speaker
is Yeah, actually, it's no French onion, but I produce Scotland, but you know. what Yeah, that's true true. Exactly. I don't think there's a substance. That is ambrosia. That is ambrosia is like milk and honey. It was just the perfect way to put The perfect way to put it. Yes. So, Ellen, what are your media fixations for this week on the Fixated Pod with Ellen and Joelle?
00:10:31
Speaker
I've got a really fun one this week. I started reading another book, um which who other than me is going to be happy that I'm reading another book about, like another nonfiction book, this time about linguistics. I'm loving it. Me? I'm happy. I mean, yeah, exactly. You. I am reading Word Slut, which is so much fun. loving it. is, the title is... by Amanda Montel, Word Slut, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English the english Language. I'm loving it. It's been on my list literally forever.
00:11:03
Speaker
I'm so glad I finally started reading it. I started listening to it. It's so cool. It's so interesting, obviously. And it's been making me think a lot about our podcast, obviously, um and the way that we speak, the way that we interact with each other as two women in the world, whatever. Yeah.
00:11:19
Speaker
Awesome. I was reading there's a chapter on um I think like the the official term is hedging with like the likes and the ums but also which i mean we know we're doing that a lot we're I try to edit some of them out as we're editing this podcast, but i don't know. It was making me think maybe we don't need to be doing that because it's community building and it's a part of the English language and it's a part of the way that everyone communicates with each other, but specifically women tend to do it more. And this book is saying that that's not a bad thing, um which is really interesting. The overlapping talk that women tend to do
00:11:57
Speaker
Apparently, if I'm wrong about this, if I'm not like presenting this correctly, sorry. But um the way that men tend to talk to each other, they tend to, I guess, like more take turns and monologue at each other. So this person leads and this person gives a monologue and then the next guy goes and then the next guy goes. But women tend to um all overlap and speak kind of at the same time.
00:12:19
Speaker
and go back and forth like that. And it's a community building technique or technique. Like, yeah, I guess technique is the right word. um It's much more common in conversations among women. oh okay. Here's what she said. it Specifically, she said everyone in a conversation between women, everyone works together to construct meaning instead of trying to like teach each other, which I really liked. It was really interesting. And we tend to do that yeah a lot. yeah as We talk over for each other all the time. Yeah.
00:12:46
Speaker
yeah It was really interesting. And I was just thinking about that and being like, oh, okay, that's so true. We're working together to construct meaning. We're not just teaching each other. We're learning together as we will. Yes. no I like that.
00:12:58
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't make it easier to edit until you watch. No, not at Easier to add captions in my goddamn clip. But... But... Yeah, it's sometimes a little over here as I'm doing it right now. Sorry. No, it's not a good thing. We're working together to build things. don't apologize to me. Exactly. No, but that is like, one, very interesting. Love that. And...
00:13:21
Speaker
and Yeah, it's kind of like, it's kind of crazy to have the podcast to recognize, like start recognizing these like speech patterns, have those things revealed to you. So yeah, that must be a really interesting book to be reading at the moment. It's really, really interesting.
00:13:38
Speaker
Dang, that's me. Is this play about us? you know Yeah. A big part of it also, she was talking about the mm-hmms that women tend to do back and forth. Sorry, not women. Wait, I was right about to do it. Sorry. That was crazy. I like stopped myself.
00:13:52
Speaker
Don't stop yourself. That's what I'm saying. Like, I am a big, I am always mm-hmm-ing as we go, just in conversation. tend to be a very active listener. And she's saying in this book that the mm-hmms specifically represent investment in conversation. And it's active participation, obviously, but it's community building. It's more of that. Yeah. It's so interesting, like the things that language, so much of community is like comes from language and so much of like who we are and how we learn to represent ourselves comes from language. It was so interesting. was so, so cool. really recommend because I'm only talking about the teeniest, tiniest bit of it. And I'm also not, I'm like maybe halfway through the book.
00:14:32
Speaker
But loving it so far. It's so cool. Also, she was talking about there's second going to say like the innovation of language as it kind of grows and changes, which just like happens, but people always tend to be against it.
00:14:45
Speaker
Apparently, it tends to be led by like the main leading group that is changing language as we go. is young women, which makes so much sense because it's also, she was saying that um like the people who tend to be slowest in updating their language as we grow, like as a society, tends to be rural, older white men. They tend to be like angry and not want to update their language as they go. It was just so cool that yeah to learn that like we are the ones leading the change in language specifically, which makes so much sense. It it reminds me of like Peace Media that I did watch before i before i came on this trip. But I watched the like um Black Twitter. There's like a three part Black Twitter docuseries. Oh, no. No, no. They talk about Zola, but there's just like a docuseries about Black Twitter on Hulu, which I recommend. It was really interesting. Not too much of like new information, honestly, because I i don't know, low key have been. researching and reading about this stuff for like a long time um and so i was like right right i know i know about some of these things but very kind of like holistic and extensive and kind of like from the start of twitter slash free twitter um like black communities online to basically up until x it became x and kind of how it it necessarily
00:16:04
Speaker
is basically gone um to a certain extent or very much changed, which is sad because, um i mean, the general idea, the general argument there um is that, you know, Black to Twitter was a real engine for Twitter becoming what it was for people internet culture and internet language and yeah kind of like digital culture um slang etc etc and that's like that's the part that i'm thinking about is like slang because they do a good job highlighting specifically that like black women and black like queer people and and all these things from like offline to online spaces have such a impact on
00:16:47
Speaker
um kind of like across the board, like yes, slang and some of the more like fun, um colloquial, just like everyday culture, and then going into like more like political movements and like the uses of hashtags and all these types of things. And so yeah, definitely connects in my mind to that and kind of how, I guess, I'm not sure how much you might've been talking about the internet, but yeah,
00:17:12
Speaker
I would imagine that like, yeah, and if there's ever a post internet, like it is, it is like more, more so, um or what I'm trying to say you know, it's like women and queer people, surprise, surprise, that usually are like making an impact on like such impacts on yeah culture that are embraced by others and then get bastardized, yeah become an mainstream and stuff. But, you know, the people will like look down upon yeah at the onset and be like, and then all of a sudden, you're like,
00:17:42
Speaker
And then like everyone's using it and there it is It's which yeah obviously like that's something that we know, but it was so interesting to like see statistics and like hear from this woman who studies this and has written a book about it.
00:17:54
Speaker
Like being like, no, like that's actually, that is what's happening. And that's kind of what's always been happening. Fixated on constructing meaning. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. I got our name of Ep. Yeah. Yeah. fact Yeah. What else? is Anything else with the book? There was a little bit on um kind of gossip that I found really interesting because like we all gossip a little bit, you know, a thing and do it too. But women are the only ones who really get like the flack for it. Is that a word? It seems like it is. Yes. um Yes. And she was talking about specifically. feel passionate about this.
00:18:31
Speaker
Exactly. um And obviously, like, don't know, I was gonna say obviously, I don't know if we all know this, it seems to me like this is something that we all know. But gossip is, again, community building, but she was calling it specifically backstage talk. Are we getting into Goffman? Yeah.
00:18:46
Speaker
I'm getting into Goffman. Any Goffman heads out there? He's whatever. It's just something that comes up a lot in social science. Okay, cool. um Yeah, no, I don't know if this is a term that she like made up or if it's from somewhere else. I don't remember. um I just had it written in my notes, specifically like the phrase backstage talk, um which is like when you're being a little bit less nice, less polished, um maybe impolite or like unsocial. And that builds community and it strengthens closeness because you're kind of showing this less like polished version of yourself to someone. And that's not always gossip. Sometimes it's just being like messy in front of them. And men absolutely do that too. It's what people do when they're alone. And it's just so interesting because women are the only ones who really get like, yeah, I get that that they talk about as if it's a bad thing that only women are doing, but everyone's doing this. It's how people get close with each other. is just...
00:19:34
Speaker
You're showing this unmasked version of yourself. I'm so interested backstage talk. Like, I really liked that phrase. but yes, feminist, but gossip is feminist. It is. I completely think so. Absolutely. And... That's... Maybe what Maybe when I'm i don't maybe not going to be able to put this into words it makes sense. But, like, that's how...
00:19:53
Speaker
a lot of these feminist movements started was with like right whispering yeah when they had no other way to kind of like get together and speak was whispering to each other like exactly exactly because you have to think about it in that context right where it's like you're defining it as gossip and it someone has to be defined against something else which is going to be like public ah like a public accepted discourse accepted public discourse versus that which exists outside of that right gossip is not like stabbing someone in the back talking behind bad behind their back like that's not yeah all that it is like it's candy sometimes but like yeah yeah sharing stories and insights and things that you're putting together and like
00:20:44
Speaker
You're learning. You're having this honesty with each other that you maybe don't have the opportunity to have in a bigger group. Like you're, it's so interesting. I want to learn more about it. When a power in the room that is, know, exactly. like So, um, yeah, for sure.
00:21:02
Speaker
Love that. I'm so interested in this book now. I believe the author, i have like seen her name, A couple times. She also, I think, wrote something about cults.
00:21:13
Speaker
And who she used to have a podcast that I remember listening a little bit to. The Language of Fanaticism, cultish, which I kind of want to get into now, actually. That sounds a little bit up my alley. Interesting. Yeah. um And...
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think she used to have a podcast that was like, I think it was like everything is a cult. And so they would just kind of analyze things. I didn't know that was her. Okay, cool. Sounds like a cult. Sounds like a cult. Okay. I think it kind of broke down little bit. I think it... Unfortunately, I think there were some issues between the hosts or something like that. But yeah, well, sick.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, super recommend so far. I'm excited to finish it. Reading and learning. That's so fun. love to read and learn. it so that's my And to read about language. Yeah, I love reading about language. It's so cool.
00:22:03
Speaker
It's so cool because it impacts everything, obviously. Anyway, do my what's the next one mar dear my other thing I've been fixated on, very different. um I watched, I told you this already, I watched Groundhog Day last week. Period. ah Which was fun. I haven't seen that movie since I was probably 10 years old, so it was fun. To rewatch. And I didn't dislike it. But I was kind of horrified by.
00:22:28
Speaker
was it Who is the main guy in it? the main what is Bill Murray? is it yeah it must be Yeah, it's Bill Murray. I was kind of horrified by like Bill Murray's actions and behaviors. I kind of forgot that he's super evil in that.
00:22:42
Speaker
But it's just making me think. I... Love time loop media. Like so much There we go Groundhog Day. I don't know if it's the first one, but it's definitely the most famous one.
00:22:53
Speaker
But maybe my least favorite of all the ones, at least that I have consumed, um which I was trying to think about all the ones that I like know of really well, like favorites. But I was thinking I'm just going to list them because there's a couple. There is, sorry to start with this one. Sorry to say it. There is an episode of Supernatural that's like classic Supernatural and it's a time loop one. Right.
00:23:15
Speaker
It's a great one. It's so silly and it's so fun. um There's an episode of the show Loki that's kind of a time loop situation. And I honestly loved it It's really well done. And sorry, I really liked that show. yeah I'll mention it. I think for the first time on here, big fan of that show. yeah It was great. it might been the first time even Whatever. um Obviously, famously, episode of Suite Life on Deck where they get stuck in the Bermuda Triangle.
00:23:42
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yes. ah ha ahha no a okay okay say that and um There's an episode of Doctor Who that's pretty time loopy called Heaven Sent with Peter Capaldi.
00:23:55
Speaker
That one is maybe one of the most beautiful episodes of Doctor Who of all time. I love that episode. It's so good. um and then palm springs great movie rom-com yeah yeah and apparently it's it's anniversary sometime in the last few days yeah i saw a letterbox post that and i was like timely that's crazy exactly great that was so good the movie happy death day that's a time loop one that one's fun i don't super remember it I was just thinking about time movies and this is not a time loop movie at all but it has to do with time movie Tenet oh okay okay yeah and Christopher Nolan obviously is back on the scene because there's no time loop in there but he loves time
00:24:37
Speaker
Loves time. Those are my time loop things been thinking about lately. I love that. I love that. Yeah, I like a time loop. I like a time loop a lot. I've really thought about it a good bit as of recently. i mean, I'm no um no fiction writer per se, but I have had like one idea for a short story that has gone very little. It's It's gone basically nowhere. um ah hu But that was very much inspired by like doing something that's like time loopy um and I think one of the like ends to that first of all problem is I have no idea how to write it yeah um but one of the ends of that was also kind of thinking about how um mean like time loops are also like essentially like a curse right yeah um I don't know why it just like I feel like that is like kind of salient for some reason because then it's just like the same like breaking the curse type of thing and you're trying to figure out like what's gonna do it and I think there's just a lot of stuff there um and I'm trying to remember how in Palm Springs which is genuinely one of my like favorite um favorite ones like they're so good in that the chemistry is great it's so funny it's so romantic um yeah I'm kind of trying to remember do you remember how they like break it can't kind of remember how I don't remember even in Groundhog Day they break it
00:25:53
Speaker
In Groundhog Day, it's like declaration of love, pretty much. And he becomes a good person. Right, right, right, right. tells her he loves her and she, I think, decides she loves him too, which... Yeah.
00:26:05
Speaker
McDowell, I don't know. In Groundhog Day, for me, they had pretty much just met. So I don't quite... And she seemed to have fallen in love with her very quickly. He was on like day four and he realized he was in love with her. I maybe struggled with that one. It was just interesting that to me that this is the most famous one because I think it's the least, at least to me, it was the least impactful one that I have encountered. Yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah. i think But I do remember watching for the first time and thinking it was like very interesting though. You know I mean Like I was like, so I see what I see. it Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about kind of get this. Yeah. This week since, cause I knew I was kind of, kind of discussed time loops in general. was thinking about, I really liked the idea of like a time loop as a metaphor, which I think in a lot of times,
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. Cases? Not even necessarily because I don't think in the even examples that I gave, this would be the case. I don't know. Yeah. But I think it's such an interesting metaphor for like grief.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know what I mean? o Like, i want I want that to be clearer in something that I'm consuming because it's such a good concept.
00:27:18
Speaker
But I don't think I've really seen that in anything. Mm-hmm. know what mean? But like the day that's exactly the same that you can't get out of until you finally like accept something or give something up or change something concrete about yourself or your life or the way that you're doing things. I don't know. Like it really, there's so much there. it could be something so great. And I really like the media that I'm consuming, but I don't think any one of them has really necessarily stood out to me in that way, at least.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think so I don't think so at all. um Like, oh yeah, of what i what I'm thinking. is as is It's a beautiful life. Is that kind of time, Lupi? haven't seen that. I don't know. To be honest. That's why I was hoping you might know. um oh Sorry, I was really trying to like find the synopsis of Palm Springs and was going about it a really long way. No, that's fine. That one must end with a declaration of love. I'm entirely guessing. Oh, okay. So they end up like, so there is like of like, they like figure out like some like cave situation. Yeah. um
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, they believe like exploding yourself in the cave is going to do it. um is In that movie, I don't remember, is she also stuck in the time loop or is he reintroducing himself every day to her? She's stuck in it too.
00:28:43
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay. Thank you. yeah i Yeah, they're okay course stuck in it together, which is why, yeah, yeah at the end i remember why they decide to like either blow up together or stay in the loop together because they just want to be yeah together.
00:28:57
Speaker
Love. Love, love. um Andy Samberg, Loki, King, not even Loki. Yeah. Obviously King. um Yeah. And I think that, which is maybe more in line of how it is used as a metaphor. Maybe. Well, actually, I guess it's more so used as a metaphor more often to a certain extent of like,
00:29:15
Speaker
punishment teaching someone a lesson um it was a metaphor or not maybe yeah exactly yeah um um maybe not so exactly a metaphor but you get I'm saying um and so but yeah I felt like I kind of like interested in it as a metaphor of just like of like frustration and malaise um yeah and yes feeling stuck in a stage of life or something like that but But I do like it for the grief thing. And I don't know if there's like a piece of media that has like done that very effectively. Maybe we have to get to work. Maybe we both need to write a short story. Yeah, probably because this point. I'm missing something. Like I don't think I've really seen that.
00:30:01
Speaker
And I love the idea of that. And sometimes, as a lot of people say, you have to create what you want to the That's so true. Maybe now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the episode of Supernatural is kind of like that. The plot really quickly is like his brother is dying every day. Like that's when the loop is resetting. um Damn. And oh, okay, actually, maybe this one is kind of about grief. Yeah, maybe that's where I'm getting this. um Because then the monster is like, okay, he's about to die, whatever, you have to accept this. I'm doing this to teach you that you there's no way to save him. You just need to like accept that he's about to die. Right.
00:30:35
Speaker
And then it's a whole thing. Like, he breaks the loop and then his brother dies anyway. And then he goes back and he's like, please put me back in the loop. Like, I just wanted to one more time. So maybe it was that, at least. But that's one very silly episode of a show that went for 20 years. So they've done truly everything on that show. Every possible concept of just, like, every possible plot has happened. Yeah, I mean, you have to, right? You have to run through literally every possibility. And maybe twice. And maybe twice. They've done truly everything that, like, one could comprehend. Yeah. My fixations fit into this a little bit. A little bit of a looser interpretation of like time loop slash just like time centric, I guess. Media. Basically, I watched before I came on on this trip, I watched before sunrise and before sunset.
00:31:33
Speaker
And then I watched Blue Valentine. And already I was kind of thinking about, yes, and that I highly recommend, honestly. um listen I mean, low-key like where to start? Okay. As we know, before Sunrise, before Sunset, part of the trilogy, Richard Linklater, Ethan Hawke, Julie Delpy.
00:31:58
Speaker
Okay. That's how you it. I think that's how you spell it at least. mean, either love her. She's also in that one scene in But I'm a Cheerleader. And I'm like, hey girl, they're at the lesbian club. Oh, fun. It's like period.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yes. And then Blue Valentine is with um Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams. Okay. Yeah. So good. And i was already thinking about the connections between the two or the three, i suppose, um because they both kind of deal with this like idea of like what happens when young love grows up. um And they both, I mean, now that I've watched Before Sunset because I'd seen Before Sunrise before. um and then Before Sunset meets them like nine years later after they're like,
00:32:46
Speaker
night walking around Vienna where they like meet and fall in love we know the story all this stuff and then they kind of yeah reunite nine years later in Paris and kind of similarly like catch up and walk around and they realize that like they have been completely miserable and unsuccessful in love basically since meeting each other um since that night and like not reuniting when they said they would even though the the the guy, Ethan Hawke's character is married and um Julie Delphi's character is in a relationship. They just like over the course of that one, um I think they have really great scene in the car where like it all kind comes like genuinely like tumbling out and it's just, it's so good. And you're like, you're like, he's been dreaming of her.
00:33:35
Speaker
It's just so good. It is just such like truly romantic, stuff like it's just good what i think connects them as they yeah kind of share this idea of like young love growing up um over time and i think the nice thing having watched before sunrise before sunset um is like that one is filled with a lot more hope than Blue Valentine. Blue Valentine is ah devastating, may I say. There's so much like, again, it starts with so much hope, all the hope and goodness of like young love, but they just,
00:34:16
Speaker
aren't in love anymore. And there's, it's just so like, just the way they do it, the way they like, they jump back and forth in time so much. And you can just, I mean, outstanding performances by the two of them. I'm a Ryan Gosling girl. I think he is just the epitome of like,
00:34:35
Speaker
just such a dynamic, flexible, like he can kind of do anything as an actor. I firmly believe that. um Michelle Williams is also just like ridiculously good.
00:34:45
Speaker
And yeah, between their like young, just like still somewhat like trouble, but so much like hope and they like really choose each other. And maybe that's also like a difference between the two in a way. Like they really kind of like are put in a situation of having to choose each other and they do. and it you watch how it's not working out.
00:35:06
Speaker
And then before sunrise, they, again, I guess it's not that they don't choose each other, but there's something a little bit more kind of ambivalent in the sense of like the course, because they were supposed to meet, but they didn't. It's all these like missed chances. Like they have that one good connection and then a couple of missed chances afterwards and they kind of have to go on with their lives.
00:35:26
Speaker
and But then they meet up again and you realize that like the spark is still there. So there's like much more hope for that like actual relationship in both the like content and the style of those two stories. and They kind of gave me that same kind of time loop vibe in a way like before sunrise and before sunset.
00:35:46
Speaker
I think it's kind of cool to have the the sequel be like genuinely like nine or ten years in the future or like time has definitely passed as like Richard Licklater likes to do. um And so they're like both older. um but but in like form like they are kind of just like reliving that same kind of scenario of them walking around and like getting to know each other but now they kind of do know each other but it's still just like this vision and they're reflecting but they're kind of like building something new out of the present yeah that kind of when you were talking about like time loops was like that's kind of I guess like
00:36:23
Speaker
sort of time loop in a like yeah They've been tortured by the like by their the absence their absence in each other's lives, but through every step of the way, they've been reliving that night. And then they actually are like in the moment, semi-serendipitously, once again, reliving that night. i like I haven't seen the movie, but I'm just picturing like they they had this night and then nine years passed and like they wanted to return to that night. They wanted a time loop, right? And like they finally get it. Yeah, right. Exactly. They want to go back to the loop. Exactly. They're usually trying to break out, but these two walk back in. they're having life were a loop. Exactly. Exactly. exactly exactly literally like please get me in that damn loop yeah i need to be in the loop
00:37:15
Speaker
ah um oh and then smiling's over because blue valentine you're like oh my it but ah what's their loop situation do they want out of the loop do they want back in the loop Are they stuck in the They want out loop. all They're both stuck in the loop. They're stuck in the loop and they want out of the loop, I think. she It's just like like, with the jumping back and forth through time, sit's it's almost like, ugh, there was the possibility for like a happy loop, but this is the real loop. You know what I mean? like This is the real loop. And they're not fixated on a loop. They're like... It's like they...
00:37:57
Speaker
I'm just really thinking about like Michelle Williams character. um think her name is Cindy. And she, you know, like after a lot of things has happened in the movie, she's just like, she's like, I'm just so out of love with you. She's like, I have nothing left to like give here. um They've been in this loop. They've been in the loop. Yeah. She's all looped out. And Yeah, and it's just it's just like truly run its course, but um another like scene, another visual that really gets me and really made me think about the time loop, if you will follow me there, if you kind of get it. like It's i'm heavily metaphorical, but I still was like, okay. There's this there's like the aftermath of like a very climactic scene where Ryan Gosling's character, like he's a he's an alcoholic, so he work
00:38:48
Speaker
her work and just like there makes a scene and gets her fired basically and she's just like so done she's so done she's so done and that's the thing i mean like it's it's kind of tough but i think they do a good job with like really not like over villainizing either of them in the situation like that's pretty bad for him to like show up drunk and kind of really make a scene and get her fired but you really kind of understand where both characters are coming from and he's so like i think that is the like purpose of like the tension in the movie and why it is so sad is because they're both like don't know real people really well-intentioned people like they have a daughter and they care and stuff like this and but they just like can't really hold on to this anymore like it's just not gonna work but again after in the aftermath scene he like takes his ring and like throws it into like the bushes or something like that but like before they like actually drive off there's just this scene where they like are both they both then like go and are like looking for the ring in the bush you know they're just like i don't know how to explain it but it's just one of those like small little things where you're just like like you know what i mean like it's just the not letting go of it not completely like he threw it and then he's looking for it and she joins him looking for it and then that's basically like one of the spoiler alert
00:40:07
Speaker
I love a late spoiler alert um when we've already talked about plenty. late It's too late. Yeah, it's a movie that's been out for a while. Yeah. Statue of Limitations is is is gone. but And if you're being spoiled, just know that also so am i in this moment right now. I'm with you. True. There we go. yeah's um Yeah. It's just one of like the last...
00:40:29
Speaker
few moments of the movie in general which like again kind of like has the conclusion that it has and honestly also ends on just something completely devastating but yeah but like in even in that it is one of the last scenes you still kind of like get this time loopy sense you know what i mean like there's something there but it's not enough and if you have to go if you have to go looking for it yeah It's just like, it's it's not enough. It's not enough. It's not enough. um Yeah. So yeah, those are those are my two, those are those are my like serious additions to time.
00:41:03
Speaker
Like cinematic parallel as a time loop. What a... Right? I really like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I mean, and I'm happy that you brought it the time loop stuff in general because it's just very serendipitous that like it really kind of added up in my mind at some point. i'm innna I'm going to say something crazy.
00:41:23
Speaker
Walk with me here. I haven't fleshed out this thought at all. I'm walking. I'm walking. now now that i'm Now that I'm thinking cinematic parallels, Challengers. Like, I'm thinking
00:41:40
Speaker
with This might all have to be cut out because I'm not sure that I'm going to make any sense. Or even what my thesis statement is going to be here. Like, I'm truly forming this as I'm speaking. Like, I'm thinking specifically of the scene of, like, Art spitting his gum into Patrick's hand and then later Toshi's. Yes. um Or I guess, yes actually, you see Toshi do it first, but then you go back in time and you see it that it's happened with Patrick previously.
00:42:04
Speaker
I'm thinking like art putting himself into a time loop because that's the only way he kind of knows how to love and be loved.
00:42:15
Speaker
You know what I mean? He's kind of living this relationship that he had with Patrick. Yeah. With his wife. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know what I'm saying. and you Yes, ah I do. I do know what you're saying.
00:42:28
Speaker
I wonder if that works as a time loop. I mean, as an it does to a certain extent and then doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. The intentional trying to put yourself into a time loop is a,
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. An interesting way to look at it. Once you consider the fact that you could choose the time loop. Yeah. Really, in a way, anything could be a time time something they could choose. Yes. That Sisyphus could be rolling the rock the hill for fun.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah. I just saw a TikTok, actually. One must imagine Sisyphus happy, so one must imagine that Sisyphus has put himself into a time loop. Like, right? Time loop. of doing the rock. Yes. Because he loves the rock.
00:43:06
Speaker
He loves pushing that down rock. Truly, with this time loop stuff, I'm all over the place. I don't have like one cohesive thought. I'm thinking about a time loop in general. But I'm back to Groundhog Day.
00:43:19
Speaker
And I'm thinking about the concept of like blowing up your life within the time loop and not realizing it's the last day. in next day you're out and you're expecting like wanting to stay in the time loop, expecting to stay in the time loop.
00:43:32
Speaker
And then you wake up and it's tomorrow. I think there is a part in Groundhog Day that I was thinking about that it doesn't seem to be mentioned. Like it's not, it's not like a plot hole or anything like that, but it's just, it doesn't seem like it's a main point. Like I haven't seen anyone like really mentioned this part where there's that guy he was like friends with in high school or something that's trying to sell him insurance. And on the last day when he's been a very good person, whatever, he's done all these things. And the guy is like, oh my God, this guy, he just bought like $20,000 worth of insurance from me. And that's the last day of his loop. He's going to wake up tomorrow having spent $20,000 on Yeah. And that's they don't mention that part.
00:44:11
Speaker
But I'm like, what an interesting thing. You wake up and you yeah expect to start over, but you're just in the next day. You don't get to do this again. yeah That part of your life is done. You have to go back to life and you have to remember that things have consequences now. It's an interesting concept.
00:44:29
Speaker
you know Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. The lack of like consequences is interesting. And then it just makes me wonder, like, again, like, do you miss the loop? Do you end up wanting the loop? Right. One must want the loop at after like you are after a while. Get used to the lack of consequences. Right. I'm sure a loop would make you go crazy, but I think once you're out of it, you'd want at least a little bit to go back to that loop.
00:44:53
Speaker
I think I would. Yeah. Yeah, I think I would too. Yeah. Again, be fucked up, but but I would. Exactly. Like, oh, I wish I could restart this again tomorrow.
00:45:05
Speaker
you know? Yeah. Because you can just, yeah you don't need to worry about doing something wrong in a loop. Yeah. Makes me wonder, do you believe in reincarnation?
00:45:18
Speaker
we I was just thinking, I just got to i was like, wait, life could be a time loop low-key. What if all of life is time We wouldn't know. we wouldn't know. we guess what we wouldn't know. Because you know when people do that thing where they're like, oh, like, I apparently lived however many lives before because of like my poems or something like that or someone has read that. um Or being like, this is literally my first time on Earth. like Yeah. um But compelling. Yeah, you're looping. What if we're looping?
00:45:48
Speaker
If you realize, okay, what if if I came to you and I was like, Joelle, I'm stuck in a time loop. Like, you have to help me. How long do you think that it would, like, take me?
00:45:58
Speaker
How much convincing do you think it would take from me before you believed me? Like, in this situation, I'm really stuck in a time loop. I'm not lying to you. How long do you think it would take to convince you? Well, this is why it makes me wonder, like, remind myself time is not real. But, like, you don't know that. But I'm like,
00:46:17
Speaker
But I don't know that. Exactly. Exactly. What if they are? But how does, how, how do they work? Because like, am I going and living every day of my life?
00:46:27
Speaker
Normal style? Like, is it like, are we talking about just like a split in the continuum of time? So then like, there's just like B plot time loop going on. And then everything else normal. Because then i in a way, don't know, I would hope that,
00:46:41
Speaker
What if I'm not the only one? If that is how it works, then the Joel in time loop that maybe doesn't realize realize it's a time loop, but you know it's a time loop because of you're being punished for your sins or something like that. have to become a better person or something. like for whatever reason.
00:46:58
Speaker
Then fine. Now I can actually answer the question. Hopefully the Joel in time loop universe. um We had to set a setting. Mm-hmm.
00:47:08
Speaker
know. It might take you a couple of tries. I think it take you a couple of tries. i don't I don't know because I feel like I just feel so confused. Yes. And we wouldn't be able to do the thing where I could be like, your mom was born on this day and you'd be like, how do you know that? Like, I know pretty much everything about you.
00:47:26
Speaker
So there's no fact that I can tell you. that yeah i'd be like how does she know like i i feel like i know for just like anticipat my exact that's movements and actions of the time of day you know what i mean yeah that trope that that trope that they do sometimes in those yes um where you're like this person's about to do that exactly yeah i ask for it type of thing um So maybe I feel like hopefully yeah wait after that.
00:47:59
Speaker
Okay. You know, like after that type of like display of like magical wisdom, i'd be like, oh, shit. Like, she's right. Oh, it's in a time loop. Yeah. What do we do?
00:48:10
Speaker
yeah now what do i do I feel like it would take me so long to like memorize what's happening. You know, it would I have to get through like 40 loops before I can be like, she's about to drop that glass. And this guy's about to ask for that. And like, it would take a a long time.
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah. It would be. so if You don't pay attention correctly. Like you got to wait another 24 before you yeah get to this point again. quote Exactly. Exactly. little commitment involved in a time. Yeah.
00:48:40
Speaker
So now you say that, like, yeah, I might take it. it might If that's what it takes for me to be convinced in time loop that a time loop is happening, then like, yeah, we might be we might be looking at some time in that time loop. Genuinely, I wonder, was I going to say?
00:48:55
Speaker
I wonder how many loops I have to go through before I realize that that's what's what's happening to me, you know? And I'm not just having crazy deja vu. um It's like, dang. I'd be in the day for about a month before I'm like, I wonder if something otherworldly is going on here. Yeah. it's a One second. da i have no I don't know.
00:49:19
Speaker
yeah I think genuinely, if you came to me and you were like, Ellen, I'm stuck in a time loop, I'd be like, okay, let's go. yeah I would believe you maybe straight off the bat. i just...
00:49:30
Speaker
I don't know. I believe in things. Not that I'm like, i believe in things I'm not saying I believe you more than I think you believe me. I just am like, sure. That's the other thing. Like, i I guess I would have to reason, like, why would Ellen be telling me this if it wasn't true? You know what i mean?
00:49:45
Speaker
um So maybe I would actually lock in. A dirty old liar. A dirty old liar. Rat bastard. Rat bastard. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Okay. Well, that's an interesting thought experiment. Anyway, it is. Yeah. Now that we've, I don't know, figured out what we're going to do if one of us is stuck in a time loop. This is so, this episode is all over the place. I think it's perfect. I think it's perfect's great. This is fun. This is a fun one. I like this. Yeah.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. Exactly. Good thought experiment to do with your friends. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone kind of brings that up at the dinner table. I think that's like pretty interesting, pretty valid. Well, I guess on that note.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah. On that note. Let's loop Anything else? I don't know. I think that's it for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it for me too. Take me back to the start. Like that song. Take me back to the start. You get it. there we go that is a What is that song? It's a, it's a very 2014 edit song. Yeah.
00:50:41
Speaker
I'm like blanking so hard. that's a gold They definitely did that on Glee. They absolutely did on Glee. Oh, I'm lying. It's Coldplay. That's The Scientist by Coldplay. Oh, doi, doi, doi, doi. At least I was just thinking Somewhere Only We Know is the song that I was thinking that blanked on Glee. That's what I was picturing. oh think So good.
00:51:00
Speaker
That's the song that's very 2014 edits. And that other one. Well, yes. Coldplay. Yeah. Love Coldplay. Sorry. I'll say it. You could do an edit any of this media that we're doing with that song.
00:51:11
Speaker
With the scientists. Yeah. we Someone get on that. And that's very, that's very, what is the name of the movie? With, oh my God, it's the two, the girl from Korea and she had that kid. She was friends with that kid growing up. Past Lives? Yeah, that's very Past Lives. Yeah. Thank you for the name of that. Similar, like could be a time loop if you really think about Could be. Yeah, there's a time loop reading Like the past alongside the present. Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Comparing past to present. I mean, we can't even get into past lives. I love that movie so bad we don't need to meet. Can't do that. Can't do that. Okay. I think that's our episode. That needs to be it. Yeah. I guess, I guess it's it. Thanks for listening. Yeah. um With our like fixated pod on the go. Us in different locations than usual. Travel episode. But having a grand old time. The travel edition. Yeah. And low key, we're going to have actual travel edition in a few days. Yay.
00:52:11
Speaker
Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Watch the space. No, for sure not. Definitely. All of on fixated.pod. Exactly. Thanks for listening. Maybe definitely exactly all of us on fixated pod social exactly thanks for thanks for this has been fun listening maybe you would choose to be in the loop or maybe you would want to be out of it. Yeah. way Here's a question. If you are stuck in a loop, would you listen to fixated every single day?
00:52:38
Speaker
Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully your hope answer is time loop day includes you listening to fixated. Yeah. okay perfect right yeah but ok goodbye