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S4E7 - Sustainability by Design: Lessons from Cross River Rail w/ Graeme Newton
28 Plays3 days ago
In this episode of Infrastructure Connections, we speak with Graeme Newton, CEO of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority.
Graeme shares how sustainability was embedded into the Cross River Rail project from the start — through procurement, leadership, innovation, and long-term design thinking.
The conversation explores how the project delivered sustainability outcomes through initiatives such as recycled materials, resource efficiency, community engagement, accessibility, and independent IS Rating validation.
Graeme also discusses the challenges of delivering a major infrastructure project through uncertainty and how sustainable thinking can create environmental, social, and economic benefits for the future.
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Transcript
The Role of Leadership in Embracing New Ideas
00:00:00
Speaker
So I think making yourself available as a leader, um being open to these ideas when people put them on the table, um not being afraid to sort of give it a go.
Defining Sustainability in Executive Terms
00:00:11
Speaker
What does sustainability look like from the executive suite? We got an inside look at the IS Connect 26 conference in Brisbane when we spoke with Graham Newton.
Overview of IS Connect 26 Conference with Graham Newton
00:00:20
Speaker
Graham is CEO of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority, Brisbane's largest ever infrastructure project.
00:00:27
Speaker
Formerly lead partner at Deloitte and CEO of Queensland Water, Graham has extensive experience leading successful sustainability teams from the top.
Cross River Rail Project Overview
00:00:36
Speaker
We're here at IS Connect 26 in Brisbane and we're here with Graham Newton. Graham, tell us a little bit about your role.
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm the CEO of the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority. um So we're delivering a suite of rail projects in South East Queensland. Probably the the most um dominant of that is the tunnel underneath the CBD and underneath the river.
Integrating Sustainability from Project Inception
00:00:59
Speaker
um So we're digging ah a six kilometre tunnel, but we're also doing a whole bunch of other rail projects. So stabling yards, station upgrades, um rail improvement and digital signaling network. yeah So I understand this is the largest infrastructure project in Queensland history, but we're also seeing that it's a very sustainable project as well.
00:01:21
Speaker
At what point did sustainability enter the conversation as part of this project? It was right at the front. So it was part of the the procurement process when we went through tender. um It was part of the obligations that the contractors had to incorporate into it. And it it looks right across the life
Addressing Climate Challenges and Emission Reductions
00:01:37
Speaker
of the project. So it's not just the um yeah the materials or the build, it's part of the design and so forth.
00:01:43
Speaker
And what were the priorities that you were really trying to achieve? Well, Queensland has, um you know, a bit of an interesting climate, you know it can be hot and humid and can, you know, we don't really have much of a winter. So you've got to be able to respond to that environment. But the other priorities were really, you know, with construction nowadays, there's, you know, there's a lot of emissions get quantified as part of, you A lot of concrete gets used, a lot of steel gets used. So how do you build what you need to build, but build it in a way where you're conscious of those attributes and those inputs?
Exceeding Standards with IS Rating and Validation
00:02:16
Speaker
How did you make the decision between what would be regulatory and required versus what you wanted to achieve as outcomes that were essentially voluntary on the project? Well, I mean, regulatory requirements are mandatory, um but what we always wanted to do was go a cut above that. And and that was the the way we put it to the contractors when they went through their bid process. And yeah to their credit, they've been thinking about it all the way through.
00:02:41
Speaker
And the IS rating was designated for this, so you've got several projects that did really well under the IS rating. What was the idea behind that? Why did you seek out an IS rating in the first place?
00:02:51
Speaker
Well, i I think it's part of being part of ah a wider community. I mean, we we want to demonstrate that we have taken this seriously.
Stakeholder Engagement and Transparency
00:02:59
Speaker
um Best way to do that is through an IS rating and get ah a third party to quantify it and put um yeah know ourselves and our contractors in a position where they have to demonstrate ah that they have actually complied with what they said. So it's not just lip service. wherere We're getting a validation from a third party.
00:03:16
Speaker
And this project is, because of its scale and it's working inside an existing city, you had quite a few stakeholders involved in
Leadership in Sustainability and Community Responsibility
00:03:23
Speaker
the project. How did you navigate the stakeholder process, reaching out to them, making sure they were part of that process?
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, look, that was an important part um and and it's quite a diverse project. I mean, we've got um suburban areas where we're working relatively close to people who are living in the detached dwellings, but in the city we're surrounded by um yeah unit apartments. Albert Street Station has over 5,000 residents living in close proximity. So we're we're know regularly receiving um comments and and issues from them. um But probably the key is actually transparency, engaging with them early, giving them an insight of where things are going. If things aren't going according to plan, getting back to them and telling them that and um and being honest about why and
Innovative Procurement for Sustainable Design
00:04:08
Speaker
what's going on.
00:04:08
Speaker
I want to talk about your role in this process because a lot of times, of course, in the industry we hear from the sustainability departments, we hear that from the contractors in the field but your perspective on sustainability is the one that we don't often hear for you what are your real priorities that make sustainability work for you well um delivery of the project is is the number one priority um but that doesn't mean delivery at any cost and yeah we are part of the community and we are delivering a piece of government infrastructure which is effectively for the people of queensland or the people of australia so There's a duty of of care, if you like, a duty of responsibility there to sort of go, well, how do we do this in a way which is sustainable or as sustainable as can possibly be done, minimise those impacts, um but get
Recycled Materials and Cost-effective Architecture
00:04:56
Speaker
the job done and not not put an over cost burden, do it in a way where it's actually thought about upfront, incorporated into the project. And I guess i guess in my role, it's about setting that expectation early and then making sure that sort of permeates through all of the contracts.
00:05:13
Speaker
Is that a big part of the procurement process, I imagine? Because we're seeing procurement as being one of the bottlenecks right now. Yeah, procurement is is a key element um of that, where if you if you state upfront what your expectations are, but you also allow the contractors and the bidders and the designers to um innovate. um and We've seen on our stations the way in which they've gone about the design, the front doors of the station are very sympathetic to the Queensland environment. So, umre They're like large open rooms which allow the um the light to permeate down. they've They've got gaps in the glass that goes up to the ceiling, so it's not trapping heat in. It allows air to circulate. So it's not heavily dependent on air conditioning. It allows that sort of natural environment, that natural airflow, but also allowing light to um get all the way down to mezzanine level and in some cases down to platform
Circular Economy and Long-term Benefits
00:06:06
Speaker
level. All of those things mean you need less, you know,
00:06:10
Speaker
ah generated light and you've got natural light that flows through. But what it does also is it means that people know for wayfinding, they see the light and they they move towards the light naturally. If you're coming out of a tunnel, you see light, you head into that direction of where the light is. So you've got this natural flow of people so you don't end up with congestion, you don't end up with um with the other sort of things that come with you know um large volumes of people moving around particular places.
00:06:38
Speaker
You touched on finance. um Obviously, there is still that perception that sustainability costs rather than saves money. But on your project, for example, one of the initiatives was saving 100,000 tons of spoil, I believe it was, which obviously is spoil is not going off site or going to waste. And so, there's that landfill levy that you're saving. So, you're actually saving money on that.
00:06:59
Speaker
Where did you see those advantages of sustainability where you're actually saving money? Yeah, well, I think the example you talk about there is obviously when you dig a tunnel, there's a lot of lot of dirt. but the good good thing about that um is it's clean. It's good to be used and you can use it elsewhere.
00:07:14
Speaker
Fortunately, we were building stabling yards elsewhere in the network and some of them were flood affected. So being able to use clean fill on those stabling yards was excellent. Being able to raise the um the level so when we put the stabling yards for the trains in place, they won't be flood affected anymore. um So that's a good example. Another example was recycled glass. It was a bit of an innovation of a local business here where they crush the glass and
Enhancing Accessibility and Setting New Standards
00:07:40
Speaker
use it as an alternative to sand for bedding down pipes, um yeah storm water drains and things like that. Now normally that sand would have to be sourced from a quarry or a riverbank somewhere but being able to use crushed glass as an alternative, I think there's in the order of 10,000 cubic metres of that was used. So it was It's good to see those sorts of innovations, but there's other things have been woven into say, into the concrete using microfibres, which adds strength, but which means that you don't need to use as much um cement in the in the mix. So there's a range of ways in which a bit of innovation can actually make some savings. And then the examples I talked about before, just in the architecture around the actual design, letting air flow, letting light flow, all of those things reduce maintenance costs.
00:08:25
Speaker
I can see why AERZ was a successful project. You integrated the sustainability in early, you let it lead those innovations and it ended up to cost savings in the end. Especially that sand example, that's a very good example of circularity as glass starts off as sand anyway. and oh well We also had um recycled plastics into the conduit pits, things like that. So it's just looking for those opportunities, not necessarily seeing them as a cost, but also looking at over the life of the project and realizing that um you know there is the the the project is a PPP, public-private partnership. So there's a 25 year maintenance period there for the contractors. So it sort of drives them to go, well, how do they drive down their maintenance costs? But then the legacy is for the state afterwards because those benefits continue. onwards
00:09:11
Speaker
Right, through operations, right. and Were there any benefits related to sustainability for the people working on the project? Yeah, look, I think, I mean, the insights that people get and you can see that translating into other projects. We're seeing Queensland Rail has picked up quite a bit of the innovations as far as some of the materials go. um There's also been training um and um the other things we've woven into is the um accessibility side of things. so really getting an insight involving people with um accessibility requirements in the process. We've had ah an accessibility reference group.
00:09:45
Speaker
All of those things make it easier for people to use the public transport at the end of the
Sustainability as Core Company Values
00:09:49
Speaker
day. But ah ah but what it's done is built a knowledge base, built an insight and set a new standard for public transport in South East Queensland for what is going to be incorporated. But when you when you look at it that way, if someone who has an accessibility requirement, be it sight, hearing, mobility or whatever, can use a train rather than having to call a taxi, which is their only other alternative, then you've got one less car on the road. So that sort of kicks on and creates another benefit.
00:10:16
Speaker
Did you find that there were benefits in retention and morale on site with the people who are actually working there and part of the project? It's a little bit hard to tell in that regard, but I guess when people see that what they're doing is part of something bigger, if there's a sort of a bit of a moral conscience that comes through with the project, I think that obviously contributes to it. I know our staff are working for the delivery authority. It's a key part of it, and we've woven that into our values within the organisation.
Financial Strategies for Sustainable Projects
00:10:44
Speaker
It sounds like there is empowerment going on there. Yeah, absolutely. yeah I think at the end of the day, we've always got to remember we've got to deliver the project, um but there's no reason why things like this have to be seen as an added burden. they can be part of what actually motivates people.
00:10:58
Speaker
On projects, especially IS rated projects, we're looking for senior management to be involved in the process all along. How involved were you in the sustainability process and initiatives? Well, I set the expectation early on um through different contacts. i mean, I was contacted initially through a person that I knew for the um for the glass. and put that to our team and said can we look into it um so i think making yourself available as a leader um being open to these ideas when people put them on the table um not being afraid to sort of give it a go i mean we're in in a very broad sense we were contacted by a queensland treasury corporation about the um green bonds and you they approached us and said could we help them formulate um you know the detail around the project because that allows them to go out into the wider finance market and source funds because there's some lending bodies who only want to lend into sustainability type projects. And being able to put yeah an electrified railway through a tunnel through the city it fits right into that sort of um mould that they were looking for. So we're able to incorporate our multi-billion dollar project into their green bond borrowing capacity.
Challenges and Rewards in Urban Development
00:12:10
Speaker
Oh, that's fantastic.
00:12:12
Speaker
So this has been, I'm sure, a long and difficult and rewarding project. um what would you What are your takeaways that you would be able to offer to the next project and say, this is what we learned, this is what you should do?
00:12:23
Speaker
Yeah, look, I think the the idea is to to understand with these projects, they are very long lived. And having that in mind at the at the start, um this one's been longer lived than I would have expected. expected it to be. We've had yeah a cyclone, two floods, a pandemic. We've had um three elections, six ministers, um you know and we've had hyper escalation and then the war in the in um in you know Ukraine has contributed. um So there's a whole bunch of things that ah that that you really, when you start out, you you didn't know that you were going to be coming up against. um But the reward in Revolved in working on a project of this scale is really there. And to see it unfold, go from what is a design in the mind's eye, which is in a 3D image that gets created. And I just walked past Albert Street to come over here this morning and I look up at the yeah the canopy that's out the front of Albert Street. And it just gives you a heart a little bit of a lift to know that you had something to do with um the creation of of something that is going to really change the face of the city forever.
Vision for Future Connectivity and Reduced Car Dependency
00:13:26
Speaker
I understand Brisbane's population is growing quite a bit. It's supposed to reach something like 4.9 million What's the next step? to there's a bit of a buzz around the Olympics. Now, the Olympics is, people talk about the Olympics and the stadium and those those projects, but there's $48 billion dollars worth of rail projects that are actually happening South East Queensland. So it kind of dwarfs that. There's a lot of housing projects, hospital work going on.
00:13:50
Speaker
ah in in our space, the rail side of things, the connection to the Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast, the enhancement of the rail system to make it more seamless. And and anybody who's been in South East Queensland around peak hour drive the driving to the Sunshine Coast or the Gold Coast would much rather not be sitting in that car park that that it can become. so particularly those people who commute.
00:14:11
Speaker
So the idea is to create a spine, if you like, a connection to the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast. um And that's where the population growth corridors are, um allowing people that choice, and getting more frequent servants services on there and making sure that that's an attractive alternative. And and rather, if you're moving around the southeast,
00:14:32
Speaker
ah you're really taking that option of train as your most efficient method. And it's probably reflective of the the nature of um Brisbane and South East Queensland. It's it's growing um and it's really at that stage of maturity where ah you would see in major cities, um London, Paris, um New York or whatever, where you wouldn't get in a car.
The Future of Urban Infrastructure and Tunneling
00:14:53
Speaker
We're we're on the cusp of that, where the choice of of how you get around um It's been predominantly car, but now we're getting to the stage where population growth, car parking, traffic means that you really want to start thinking about alternatives.
00:15:08
Speaker
We've seen so many tunneling projects starting to enter into infrastructure. It seems to be a convenient way to get through cities now. um How do you do you see the tunneling process and do you feel like that's the future of a lot of infrastructure projects in urban environments?
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, having seen how our contractors went about the tunneling and I've been visited quite a few of the other projects as well too. i mean the the innovation that's evolved with tunnel boring machines and the way in which they um get through the tunneling is is quite astounding. I mean there's been a couple of mishaps along the way with some of the more notable projects but mostly it's it's a very reliable way to do things and if you compare I mean, even as recently as um when they did the the channel tunnel, the methodology they used then was so different to what we're using now. So I see it as continuing to evolve. And as you say, with the demands um and it becoming really the the way of choice to get through heavy cities rather than um putting viaducts in or larger roads, um I can see the innovation and the insights just growing in
AI and Digital Twins in Project Management
00:16:13
Speaker
that space.
00:16:13
Speaker
How are you using AI on the project or how do you see AI being used in the future? Yeah, well, AI is sort of fairly new and we've got to work out how does it fit into the scheme of things. We have been using it to some extent in our corporate side of things. um We are using it in relation to project controls. It's still at it at its infancy and we've spent a fair bit of effort on developing 3D models and going down the path with the digital twin. I can see AI, the digital twin,
00:16:43
Speaker
programming, scheduling, I can see that all starting to converge. We're a little bit little way off that just yet, but I can see that as being something where having the data and then having the ability to interrogate it and then when those things hit, like I talked about before, being able to put shocks into the system and work out, well, what does that
Leadership's Role in Achieving Successful IS Ratings
00:17:01
Speaker
mean? And then come up with alternative options more rapidly than than currently requiring um an expert in the corner to do it, you've sort of got somebody to aid the expert. Someone's at the end of the day still got to drive the machine. can do a bunch of things, but at this stage, I think you still need to have that insight to be able to feed the question into the AI.
00:17:21
Speaker
Well, it's been great speaking with you. um Speaking to the people who are actually working on the project on the sustainability side as part of the IS rating, I've noticed that they're very excited about the project and a lot of that success comes from the leadership that they have. And so speaking to you, I can see why. Thanks thanks thanks for having me. Yeah, look, we're really, really engaged with the with the ISCA and and they've been wonderful all the way through helping us go through that rating process and and get an understanding of what it is that ISCA sees as sustainability and how we overlay that with the project and what we're doing there.
00:17:55
Speaker
Great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you.
00:18:02
Speaker
Thank you for listening to another episode of Infrastructure Connections. Please follow us wherever you get your podcasts and drop us a comment to let us know what you think. Stay tuned for the next episode of Infrastructure Connections.