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Episode 166: 5 Things We Care About When Hiring
1.1k Plays2 years ago
Find it Quickly Here (In the Episode):
0:00 Intro
1:21 Hiring to build a team, applying for a job within DK or Till or a job in general
3:30 Key traits we look for when hiring
3:54 Trait: Dependability and Trustworthiness
4:15 Trait: Proficiency
4:24 Trait: Teachable
4:50 Trait: Good fit for team, their lives
7:03 What we care about when hiring
7:12 Email etiquette
8:55 Does their personality fit with the job? - job dependent for some positions
9:33 Familiarity with the company, understand values, ideal clients, etc
11:14 Social media, reflects your personality
12:55 Proficiency - teachable, show your work in a portfolio, experience, resume
13:13 Tailor your portfolio or resume - job dependent
16:53 Know your values as a business owner when hiring, design application process around that
17:53 What we don't value when hiring
18:18 Where you went to college, GPA, major
22:22 Long, detailed resumes
Show notes and additional resources https://daveyandkrista.com/episode-165-5-things-we-care-about-when-hiring/
Recommended
Transcript
Creating a Relaxed Interview Environment
00:00:05
Speaker
And I think for those of you who are creating positions, right, trying to create an environment where people understand that, like where you want to see their personality a little bit. And so I think it is on us as business owners, too, to help somebody feel a little bit relaxed during an interview so you can get a better sense of their personality. Welcome to The Brands That Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients.
Introduction to Hiring and Application Processes
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:33
Speaker
Are you looking to hire someone? Or maybe you're looking to get hired. Either way, we think this episode will be helpful. We're covering what we look for when we hire a team member and a few things that you might consider if you're posting a job for your business. If you're interested in building a team, we've recorded quite a few episodes on that topic, so be sure to check out the show notes for links to those episodes.
00:00:54
Speaker
And as always, be sure to check out the show notes at DaveyandChrista.com for the resources that we mentioned during the episode. And we want to hear from you.
Listener Feedback Request
00:01:01
Speaker
Let us know what kind of content you'd like to see in the Brands That Book podcast as we move forward. To leave your feedback, just send us a DM on Instagram at DaveyandChrista. Now onto the episode.
00:01:16
Speaker
All right, another episode of the Brands of Book Podcast.
Exploring Hiring from Both Sides
00:01:19
Speaker
We are talking about hiring today. Yes, which we've talked about hiring before. I think with Nancy Ray, maybe we did another episode, but we've done it more from the position of like, if you're trying to build a team, this is how you do it. And today we're going to talk about more how to get hired, what we look for when we're hiring. And so maybe this will be helpful if you're looking to get hired for a position or if you are actually trying to hire.
00:01:44
Speaker
maybe these guidelines that we do will help you look and build your team. Yeah, put together your own process. And like you just said, we've talked about hiring in general across a few different episodes. So be sure to check those out. We'll try to link to those in the show notes too. If this is something that's top of mind and you're like, you know, this year I'm committed to building a team. You know, we have a number of episodes to check out from people who have built teams before across different industries too.
00:02:08
Speaker
So be sure to check out those. But like Chris said, we're talking about exactly what we're looking for in the interview application process, right? So we're not talking, I guess, quite as much about the interview itself, but more the application process, how we set that up, maybe why we set that up. And to your point, hopefully it doesn't matter kind of what stage you're in, that this is helpful. If you're trying to build a team, hopefully this is helpful. If you're trying to get a job somewhere, hopefully this is helpful. If you're applying for one of our positions.
00:02:35
Speaker
whether at Till Agency or here at Davey and Krista, hopefully this is helpful.
Experiences from Till Agency and Davey and Krista
00:02:40
Speaker
Yeah. And this is pretty top of mind because we just added a new admin to our team. So welcome Kayla. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we've had, so both Till Agency and Davey and Krista have teams. Davey and Krista is a team of what, six or seven in Till Agency, probably 10 to 12, somewhere in there. So we've each hired quite a few people.
00:02:58
Speaker
And honestly, some of them have worked out, some of them haven't. And so we've learned a lot along the way as well. So hopefully we can speak into that experience a little bit. And if you have any questions about this topic, please drop them in DM, send us a question at support at davianchrista.com, comment on the blog. We read all those and oftentimes we'll get back to them as well. And if we don't get back to it personally or feel like we can't, a lot of times they turn into podcast episodes. Correct.
00:03:23
Speaker
Anyways, let's jump into it.
Dependability and Direction Following
00:03:25
Speaker
I wanna say at the outset, kind of what we're looking for in the application process itself, all right? So like what we're trying to get a feel for as somebody completes the application and we're reviewing them. Typically, our job listings go on our website, you know, it's davianchrista.com forward slash careers or something like that. And we provide very specific directions for people completing or filling out an application. I'm gonna come back to that concept in a second here.
00:03:51
Speaker
But in general, what we're looking for is dependability and trustworthiness. I think dependability is something that you can definitely get a feel for or start getting a feel for in the application process as somebody completes the application.
Proficiency vs. Teachability
00:04:05
Speaker
Maybe not trustworthiness too much. That I think takes some interviews and some investigation. But definitely whether somebody's dependable.
00:04:13
Speaker
then we're looking for proficiency, of course. Like, does this person know what they say they know? Are they good at what it is that we're hiring somebody to do? Or are they teachable? Yeah, or are they teachable? And I think that's a huge one. I think for Till Agency especially, we have hired some people who didn't have a ton of experience, but were very teachable and have become very good at what it is that they do.
00:04:40
Speaker
And so we're definitely, you know, I would rather take somebody who is teachable over, you know, a know it all. Right? So proficiency and then fit. And when we say fit, what we mean is, are they a good fit for the team? Is the position a good fit for their lives? Will that mesh well with everybody else's, you know, kind of schedules and how the team
Job Fit and Team Dynamics
00:05:01
Speaker
works?
00:05:01
Speaker
And so somebody might be really great at what they do, might be a great candidate, but it just maybe doesn't seem like it's gonna fit their life really well. And I think that's good for the business to help the applicant figure out. And then of course good for the applicant to figure out as well.
00:05:17
Speaker
Anyways, hopefully we'll hit each of these categories, but that's kind of what we're looking for on the application process. And I know we're going to get into this conversation a little bit more than I know I've been talking a lot here, but I do want to mention too, going back to dependability and being able to follow directions, I think is one of the biggest ways that you can demonstrate that you are dependable.
00:05:40
Speaker
And we list very specific directions for applying. You know, we're not trying to trick anybody, so I think we're very clear. But you'd be surprised at how many people don't follow directions. I think this is true across the board too. I just got finished applying for this year long. It was a year long process to apply for this program. I'm not leaving Davey and Krista, this is what I do.
00:05:58
Speaker
not related to my career. But one of the things that they express gratitude at the end was just following directions. And I think that can really set you apart. You'd be surprised. It shouldn't be one of those things that set you apart, but following directions is key. And so we want to see if people are following the directions that we lay out on our website.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think it shows that they pay attention to details and it also shows the seriousness that they are taking the application process. So I think it sets apart people from who are just casually playing to like, oh, this looks like a job. Like maybe I'll do it. Two people who are like, yes, this job is for me and I'm going to do all of the steps to get it. Exactly.
00:06:31
Speaker
And so I think kind of thinking through as you're creating your job listing and how you want people to apply and think about what that will show you about that person as you're creating those instructions. And you can see how we lay it out. I don't think again, it's like, it's not rocket science, but it's over at davianchrista.com. Well, maybe we don't have any open positions right now. So the page might not be available. Well, they just might have a heading. It might not have any content on it. Okay. So there might not be a great example right now.
00:07:01
Speaker
So anyways, beyond that, there are a couple other ways that I think you can demonstrate that you're dependable and trustworthy. I think one of the biggest ways for you.
Communication Skills in Hiring
00:07:11
Speaker
Oh, email etiquette. So like Davie said, we look for people who are taking the position seriously, who are following other directions, sending us the things that they ask for. We're also looking for prompt responses when we inquire back, especially if we're doing like something like scheduling an interview with them. We're looking for proper grammar in the responses and that they do things like use the kind of language that we speak on our website or in our emails.
00:07:37
Speaker
And this is true, like if you're applying for a fancy law firm and all of the language that they use on their website and their emails back to you is very formal, you want to make sure that your tone matches their tone. I think it goes a long way too when people do things like confirming appointments or following up after an interview.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yes. All little things, but show that you're serious and show that you're invested in the process. And, you know, again, email etiquette, I think to your point about, you can kind of start demonstrating that you are familiar with the brand and the brand identity through the way you are communicating. Right. Right. So I think email and just communication goes a long way. I think people should, both those who are hiring and those who are looking for a job should see it as sort of an extension of the interview even, you know, any communication back and forth.
00:08:23
Speaker
So email etiquette is one of the ways that we look for whether somebody's dependable or not, and of course, just like showing up on time for a meeting. I think meeting confirmations are good, especially if you have like questions about how somebody's going to meet with you, whether it's gonna be via Zoom or phone call or whatnot and getting clarity on those things, I think is important. And you know, like if you are applying for a position or you are creating an admin position, you wanna make sure that the person you're hiring is attentive to detail
Expressing Personality and Cultural Fit
00:08:51
Speaker
in that way, right?
00:08:52
Speaker
So let's see, I think personality goes a long way too. And what we mean by that is like really demonstrating your personality and showing your personality, trying not to be too stiff, you know? And obviously like the kind of job it is, the law firm is going to be very different than I think applying for a job at Davey and Krista, for instance, you know? But I think you're going to be more memorable if you relax a little bit.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I think for those of you who are creating positions, right, trying to create an environment where people understand that, like where you want to see their personality a little bit. And so I think it is on us as business owners too to help somebody feel a little bit relaxed during an interview so you can get a better sense of their personality. Yeah, I think so too.
00:09:33
Speaker
I think it's important too, to make sure that in the form that you're applying for in the position that you demonstrate that you are really familiar with the company. So you want to make sure you're not just copying and pasting kind of like blank answers that just kind of talk about yourself. You want to make sure that you demonstrate that you understand what the company does, what their values are. Again, using their language, showing them that you understand their ideal client and just trying to connect yourself with the company in as many ways as possible.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah. And again, I think that just shows that you're invested and in the process, you're serious about it.
Social Media Professionalism
00:10:10
Speaker
You know, you've taken the time to research and along those lines, like we have people like we ask questions like how did you hear about David and Krista and what makes you want to apply for this job and things like that. And we get responses that are like, well, I just found you guys thought it'd be cool.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, somebody shared the job posting and it looked interesting. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, that might be true. And we're not saying that you should lie and be like, oh, well, I've been following your company for a decade or whatnot. But you can answer that question in a way that really gets at the heart of what that question is asking. We're not asking like, hey, you've liked every one of our posts on social media, right? We're not asking that. Or you've seen every post that we've ever created or whatever. What we're asking is, what makes you want to apply for this position?
00:10:52
Speaker
Even if you've just heard about a company, you know, you can answer that in a thoughtful way. I saw somebody share about you and I clicked on your website and I just totally identify with what you do, who you serve. Obviously be more specific than that, but you can really dive in to let them know that you now know who they are.
00:11:10
Speaker
Along the lines of dependability to social media accounts is something that we look at. I think that this is going to both show proficiency potentially in what you do depending on the job that you're applying for. If you're a social media manager, then your social media account probably should reflect what you know about social media management. Or if you're a designer applying for a design position, probably get to put your latest design work on your feed.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah, or at least the feed that you share, you know, and then obviously just like, I think it goes without saying like, you know, if your social media feed is a mess, and I mean that on all sorts of different levels, right? No, it does, I think make an employer curious as to what it is that they're getting in terms of a member of the team, right? You know, and again, I think like, you know, my social media accounts, for instance, like my personal social media account is very different than David and Krista.
00:11:58
Speaker
Right. And so, you know, of course, on my personal social media account, Davey T Jonesy, like I don't, you know, I mean, like if I was applying for a job, I would want to make sure there's nothing in there that would maybe give somebody pause. Right. But it doesn't necessarily mean I have to be like, sharing work related stuff.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think this means that you have to hide all of your social media accounts either. I think that as an employer, it's actually nice to see that something is public and then you can see what somebody's really sharing. Sure, sure. But obviously something to check out.
Beyond Resumes: Portfolios and Materials
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah. You know, we also ask for personality types. This is not something that we used to hire. It's not like we're like, oh, we are definitely going to hire a... I am teaching. Yeah, whatever. Are you an ENFJ? Yes. We both use ourselves as an example.
00:12:42
Speaker
So it's not that, but I think it does. It is something fun to talk about, and I think it starts covering a little bit more about that person. So anyways, we talked a lot about dependability. Some of this I think can overlap into proficiency as well, but we should talk a little more about proficiency and how we figure out whether somebody is actually qualified for the job that they do.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it might differ a little bit. We might add a caveat if you're a designer applying for a design position. Or you're an agency creating jobs or whatever. So one thing that we look for is a portfolio. I think we weight the portfolio, especially over a technical job like design. We weight that over a resume.
00:13:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, I mean that is like one of the key things that we look for when we're looking at designers. I always go to the portfolio first. And you want to make sure that when you're sending somebody a portfolio, if it's a position that requires a portfolio, that the work that you're showing in that portfolio is relevant to the work that that company does. So we've had positions open before where somebody sent us several really large, heavy PDF print ads from an industry very different from our own.
00:13:50
Speaker
And while I'm sure that those ads were really great for that particular industry, they didn't show me that this person would have success designing websites for us. So if Europe is applying for several positions, you may end up making several different portfolio websites that you link to and you tailor the work within each one of those websites.
00:14:09
Speaker
to the specific company that you're designing. You wanna make sure that what you're sharing looks like what they do so that they have a vision for how your work is gonna fit with their work and their aesthetic.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yes. And so I just, you know, I don't really have anything to add to that. I think that a portfolio demonstrating that you can actually do what you say you can do is, I think, infinitely more valuable than listing on a piece of paper that you, you know, like kind of where you worked in the past. Now, that's not to say that a resume is not important. You know, there are definitely ways that a resume continues to build that trust.
00:14:42
Speaker
But I think first and foremost, we want to see like the portfolio, we want to see the proof, right? And then after that, you want to go to maybe a resume and that helps verify maybe some of the proof. Right. And if you're applying for a position where maybe they're hiring a show website designer, you want your portfolio website probably to be a show website that demonstrates that you understand that.
00:15:04
Speaker
or if not, you should make it very clear that you're very teachable and like, you know, Squarespace, but you totally don't are excited to learn this other platform that they're talking about. Yeah. And I would say like even for non portfolio businesses, right? Like when we're interviewing people as account managers over at Till Agency, we're very interested in their experience. And even if they've worked at another agency in the past, like to us, that's not
00:15:26
Speaker
proof necessarily that they know what it is that they need to know in order to serve our clients on the types of accounts that we have over at TILL. So any way that you can demonstrate that beyond your resume I think is good.
00:15:42
Speaker
But, you know, a resume I think does count for a little bit more, you know, over at Till Agency because it's not like you can show, I don't know, like you can't shoot, maybe you could send over a video of it. You could do case studies? Yeah, maybe you could do a case study. I mean, there are probably creative ways that you can do it. Yeah. But I do think like even kind of the extra stuff that you fill out, like in the paragraphs or in the questions that we ask in addition to submitting a resume can get at maybe some of the more specific ways that you've managed ad accounts.
00:16:11
Speaker
I'm going to add too that if you're applying for a position that is with a creative firm, you probably don't want to have just a basic Word doc resume. You don't have to necessarily design it yourself and InDesign and make it like super creative and beautiful, maybe unless you're applying for a design position. But Canva even has tons of like nice looking resume templates that are free. And so you can really clean up your resume and make it look good without just doing like the basic like typed out one column Word doc.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yes. That's definitely the designer in the speaking. But I think the point is like, you know, it depends a little bit on the job as well. But really think about what you value as a business owner when you're hiring, and then tried to design the application process around that.
00:16:57
Speaker
So I don't know, you know, as far as like, those are some of the things that we ask for. Like I said, we asked some questions in addition to the resume itself, you know, and I would say like, we see the answers to those questions prior to opening the resume, right? And, you know, it takes a while to open up the resume and go through each of those. So I think it's important to take advantage or to answer those questions well and thoughtfully and not just skip over them as like extra.
00:17:22
Speaker
And so we found that to be a really valuable part of our application process. So if you're designing your own, that's something that we'd recommend is not just asking for a resume and a cover letter or whatnot. Even though probably what you would get in a cover letter is covered by the extra questions that we ask, we kind of like asking the additional questions because we are looking for certain things and a cover letter, I guess maybe lends itself to who knows what they're going to say in the cover letter and it might not be giving you the information that you actually want.
00:17:51
Speaker
Right. So what we don't care about, I think it's worth kind of ending on that note. And I don't want to phrase it what we don't care about, you know, because that's not quite true. Maybe things that don't matter as much. Yeah, things that we don't value as much in the process,
Skills Over Academic Background
00:18:08
Speaker
right? And these are maybe things that people tend to think better, or at least like the world typical job market colleges might tell you matter.
00:18:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. One of them is where you went to college. I don't think I could tell you or anybody, maybe Sarah, but we've known Sarah since middle school, where anybody in our team went to college. Yeah, I'm thinking even until, you know, like I can tell you. Or if they finished college. Where Ryan went to college. You know, I run businesses with people who've never went to college.
00:18:36
Speaker
Uh, or maybe didn't finish. Yeah. Okay. But still like, you know, and what are the smartest people I know. I know. And so we just don't value that as much. I actually, again, on LinkedIn, you know, I saw somebody post about this recently and they were, you know, they're running some big company and they're basically like, this just doesn't matter as much anymore.
00:18:56
Speaker
And I think they were talking about maybe video production or something like that and how these kids go to these schools for video production and don't even graduate with a portfolio reel. But they can tell you the differences between cameras. But that doesn't help you when you're actually producing video content.
00:19:13
Speaker
Well, especially in this creative industry because what you're learning in college is already so far outdated by the time you actually graduate and start working in the real world. It was almost laughable when I got my first job out of college and they're like, you learned how to build a website with Dreamweaver? Nobody does that. You need to learn code. I think that's true today too because technology changes so fast.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah. So I guess all that to say too, you know, if you were hiring, I wouldn't discount somebody just because they didn't attend college. You know, like I would give people the benefit of the doubt. And again, I think that's why portfolio is so important is, you know, we want to see that you can do what it is that you say you can do. And whether you went to Harvard or the community college or no college at all, like that's secondary. Yeah. Right. And the same thing with what you majored in, you know, or your college GPA.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I majored in theology. So I did major in graphic design. Yeah. And you know, my example is probably not the best example. Like, I think you definitely benefited from your graphic design degree, like in design. Yeah, even though what your specialization is web design. Yeah.
00:20:21
Speaker
And another thing I'll add is like really long, really detailed recipes. I think people are going to skim them. So make them skimmable and tailor your recipe for the position. People don't need to know every single responsibility that you had in every single job. People don't need to see every single job that you've had. If there are like, if you, I worked at a gym in high school or college, I would never list that because it's not relevant to most positions I'd be hired for today. So people don't need to know that I can,
00:20:48
Speaker
promptly answer phones and be polite. They're much more interested in that she designed websites for American Bible Society. That was my first job out of college. Yeah, and that's a tough one because I do think that I would look for big job gaps if there was five years of...
00:21:04
Speaker
Well, what was this person doing in this five years, you know? Well, if I feel like if everything else is strong enough, you could ask that in an interview. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Anyways, we hope this is helpful. These are the things that we are kind of looking for as we review applications. And so if you're crafting your own application process, we hope that you found this episode helpful. And like I said, if you have any questions, reach out. You know, they often make for good podcast episodes, but you know, I say nine times out of 10, we often get back to people with answers to their specific questions.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. All right. Thanks for joining us, guys. Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
00:21:58
Speaker
you