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66: The Importance Of A SAFE Place To Be With God with Corey Garrity
219 Plays2 years ago
Corey Garrity is the Associate Pastor at Redeemer Redwood City in the heart of Silicon Valley. He has a deep passion for helping people know, love, and follow Jesus. He studied business management in his undergrad at Concordia University Chicago and graduated from Concordia University Irvine’s Cross-Cultural Ministry Center, with an M.A. in Theology and Culture. He grew up in North Carolina which is where his love for barbecue began. He is married to Madeline and they have a beautiful daughter, Mara with their second baby due this June.
Corey joined Ryan Pfendler and Jill Devine on this week’s episode to discuss church attendance among millennials, going out in the community to share God’s word, and the power of saying hello to complete strangers.
Instagram: @coreyrgarrity
Redeemer Redwood City Website: https://www.redeemerrwc.org/
Collective Co. Website: https://www.collectiveco.online/
Corey’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreygarrity/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
Two Kids and A Career: https://www.jilldevine.com/podcast
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:41
Speaker
It's
Meet Ryan Finler: Generational Faith Dynamics
00:00:42
Speaker
been a while since Ryan Finler has been a part of this podcast. You've been busy, Ryan. What's going on? Oh, I mean, I'm just a full time student getting my master's and working this job. So it's a bit full, but it's good.
00:00:56
Speaker
Well, let me go back and introduce you to Ryan. He is my millennial mentor and has really been helping me try to stay cool and hip within the church. So I don't even know if that's even a thing. But anyway, season three was really cool because in season three, we got to really dig into the faith of the next generation. And Ryan, why don't you explain what you do?
00:01:23
Speaker
and why you're qualified as my millennial mentor in this podcast. Sure. It's partly because I am a millennial myself. Yes. I'm on the very low end of millennials. But I also teach and lead our next generation ministries here at Messiah. So our middle schoolers and our high schoolers, the people who are about to become young adults enter college.
00:01:48
Speaker
That's the age group that I work with. In fact, one of them, I've had the moment. Okay. The first moment of feeling old. One of my former high schoolers is now a coworker with me here at Messiah. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, you know, I've started at 23 and now I'm 28. So I, I work with,
00:02:11
Speaker
next generation and I'm a part of the millennial generation. I see myself as like a connection between these old boomers that work here at Messiah and these young people who reach with Jesus. So that's why you're qualified for this. Obviously you can talk about other things besides millennial talk, but we really got to dive into that, like I said, in season three and now into season four.
00:02:35
Speaker
We have been exploring different stories, not just my story and my faith journey that I am still on. And I think everybody is still on, but just still trying to figure all this out. But listening to other people's stories and hearing
00:02:52
Speaker
what they have to say, whether it's an expert, as far as being a pastor or even, you know, going to seminary, or what have it, I don't know, whatever you would underline and
00:03:07
Speaker
that umbrella of extra but also just regular normal people like normal goes a long way just people's stories and so you have a guest that we are going to talk to you today would you like to intro him or is there something you want to do first what should we do should we keep him waiting waiting we'll keep him waiting okay because i want to tell you why i brought this guest on today okay
00:03:32
Speaker
every once in a while you come across an article, if you subscribe to some of these publishing companies, they send you articles that you need, that they say you need to read this like every day. Okay. And so normally I ignore those, but then you sometimes see one that you actually click on and want to, to read and get to know.
Millennials and Church Attendance Trends
00:03:51
Speaker
And there's this organization out there called BARNA. They are this Christian research group, highly respected, essentially church workers like me see it as the place to get their data on what Christianity and the culture is doing. Like it is a scientifically sound data company. And they produce books, they produce podcasts, they produce lots of media for us. And so I got this article from them.
00:04:19
Speaker
And the title of this article says a new chapter in millennial church attendance. Jill, if you had to guess which generation now makes up the highest percentage of weekly church attendance in 2022 between millennials, Gen Xers and boomers, which would you pick? Which is the highest attending age?
00:04:42
Speaker
I do have a question to ask for millennials. What is the age of a millennial, technically? Yeah, it would be 96 to 96 years old. 1996 when they were born. Yeah. OK. I was like, that is not what I thought a millennial was. It's yes, it's basically 80s and early to mid 90s.
00:05:09
Speaker
okay when they were born the oldest millennials right now would be in their early 40s and the youngest ones like me would be 28 25 26 yeah would be the youngest millennial okay well i'm just gonna go with gut and say boomers that's what i thought oh so that's right then i right and millennials were the were the lost generation we
00:05:36
Speaker
I mean, we've had sermon series here at our church all about how millennials have walked away and they're just not coming back. Well, I find this Barna article, and it says this, that since 2019, the percentage of millennials reporting weekly church attendance has increased from 21% to 39%. So in three years, this lost generation
00:06:00
Speaker
has increased 18% in their church attendance. And when you look at the graphs, they are actually the largest attending group by generation at a weekly church attendance level. So that, right. So that interested me and I wanted to know more. And so I
Guest Introduction: Pastor Corey Garrity
00:06:18
Speaker
thought, who do I, who do I know that is reaching millennials that is doing something to engage them? Well, thankfully one of my best friends is doing just that.
00:06:28
Speaker
My friend Corey Garrity is our guest today. He's a pastor in the Bay Area, that part of the country that everyone thinks is completely lost and never coming back to Jesus. Okay. Can you define Bay Area? This would be San Francisco. Corey, if I'm wrong, you can correct me. San Francisco, Oakland. I guess you could throw San Jose maybe in that area. I don't know, Corey, is that too far south?
00:06:54
Speaker
No, you nailed it, bro. You're doing great. Corey's like, when am I coming on? When am I talking? So Corey, he's a pastor out there in Redwood City, which is where all these Twitter execs and all these Silicon Valley people live. So, you know, right in the heart of Bay Area. And he has a deep passion for helping people know, love, and follow Jesus.
00:07:19
Speaker
What's interesting about Corey is he went to college to study business management, spending a year in the business world and realized I got to do ministry. And so he moved out to California, joined his father-in-law's church out there and is doing some awesome stuff. And I just really wanted to bring him on here and pick his brain to explain to me how this lost generation might actually not be so lost in how they might be reached.
00:07:47
Speaker
Um, so Corey, tell me just straight up, tell me about your ministry and what you're doing out there. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting Jill at the beginning, she's talking about experts and normal people. Um, I definitely err on the side of just a normal dude. Um, you know, I have this, uh, pastor title in front of my name, uh, by no means am I an expert in this stuff, but, uh, but yeah, let me, yeah, let me tell you a little bit about, um,
00:08:16
Speaker
the Bay Area, what we're doing out here. And nonetheless, it's just fascinating. It's been an incredible learning curve. I grew up actually with Ryan. We grew up together in North Carolina. And so we kind of steeped in a culture that predominantly is still vastly Christian culturally, and then kind of made my way to Chicago that opened my eyes a little bit more to a greater narrative of the country.
00:08:46
Speaker
And then the next larger leap to the Bay Area has really opened my eyes to, I think, the reality of what this country is probably going to be facing, which I think now as social media and digital platforms continue to increase their influence in the lives of the next generation, predominantly Gen Z,
00:09:10
Speaker
Man, this stuff is trickling probably all over at this point. So I think things are going to keep picking up. But yeah, man, it has been such a journey here in the Bay Area. When I got here, my role is youth and young adults. So I was kind of asked to hang out with students who are anywhere from 10 years old to young professionals who work at Facebook.
00:09:37
Speaker
and uh in twitter and all these places and so a pretty big big age range but nothing was existing um so when i stepped into our church's redeemer and when i stepped into redeemer there was nothing existing for any of these uh these age groups and life stages and so um kind of just started working with middle school students and high school students and then um it's kind of a combination of three things the context in which i'm in uh
00:10:06
Speaker
what God has kind of naturally placed in me. And then I think, you know, honestly, my masters was like, Hey, you need to, you need to start a project and you need to reach some people. And I was like, sweet, let's do that. And so as, uh, as we started kind of rolling with this project, um, the project emerged into, uh, reaching young professionals in Silicon Valley.
00:10:33
Speaker
But we didn't just want it to be reaching young professionals in Silicon Valley. The interesting thing about Redwood City and the Bay Area, what I think a lot of people don't realize is that there is a lot of poverty in the Bay Area matched up against extreme affluence and wealth. So we have some of the wealthiest zip codes in the world here, and the most wealthy people here literally,
00:11:01
Speaker
And at the same time, we have people who are living in houses, you know,
Launching 'Collective': Bridging Communities
00:11:07
Speaker
sharing two, three, four families in a three-bedroom, two-bedroom house. And so that's kind of the context of Redwood City. And so as we were kind of thinking about, man, what would it look like to, what would it look like to reach, what would it look like to reach people and live in relationship with people in both worlds?
00:11:30
Speaker
What if you created a community that existed where, um, people who are, you know, again, tech engineers and whatever have you, but also worshiping or doing life with, um, or just simply being in community with people who have no idea what that's like. Um, and so that's what we kind of ran with and we created something called collective community. Um, we just kind of say collective that's who we are.
00:12:00
Speaker
Um, we launched out, uh, the perfect timing. It was actually December of 2019 and it was just the perfect time to launch anything in this world. Um, three, three months before, uh, the shutdown happened. And, um, and yeah, and we, we've just been having a lot of fun figuring out what does it look like to create a community that, that looks like that. And so that's kind of, uh, that's kind of what we've been up to.
00:12:27
Speaker
I think that analysis of your area is very interesting. You've got this high wealth all around. And I think, honestly, living in the Midwest, it just feels like, yeah, that's California. That's where all the rich tech people live. But you've got that juxtaposition of the extreme poverty right next to it. Almost like, I mean, it's just hidden, it feels like. I think you've described it to me before. It's just kind of,
00:12:56
Speaker
you could ignore it if you wanted to. And point being that the area you're living in, expectations aren't always reality or appearances aren't always reality. And in our conversations about the people you're reaching there, that's something you've said before that, you know, if I'm a typical American Christian,
00:13:24
Speaker
suburban American, I'm sitting here thinking, well, you're doing ministry out there in the frontier, where no one wants to hear about Jesus, no one cares about him. And if you mentioned that you're a Christian, they're going to attack you, they're going to slander you, they're going to, they're going to, you know, call you out on social media, whatever. Explain to me, how often does that happen to you there? Is that what it is actually like in your area?
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's a valid question. And honestly, before I came here, that's what I was I was fully expecting that. So I was fully expecting like, man, are people gonna like hate me? You know, like, are people gonna like, is our building gonna be spray painted tomorrow morning? You know what I mean? Like, during my sermon, is someone gonna like stand, you know, and I'm saying like, and so it's a it's a valid, a valid thought. But I think that
00:14:19
Speaker
My experience over the last five and a half years since I've been here has surprisingly, surprisingly been the opposite. And I would say this, there have been weird moments, weird moments online on social media where people obviously will bash, you know, collective in what we're doing. You know, if we have an advertisement on Instagram or Facebook or something,
00:14:49
Speaker
you know, we'll get messages from people who, you know, are, you know, trying to, trying to come at us and say something that's, you know, obviously inappropriate about either our faith or what we're doing and things like that. But I would say that that has never happened in person and compared to the positive reactions to what we're trying to do is, I mean, it's unmatched.
00:15:13
Speaker
Typically, when I tell people, and I really have a high value on meeting new people, and typically when I meet people and I tell them what I do, they actually respond with, I mean, it's actually surprising, Ryan, the amount of times that I hear, man, you're like, you're a pastor, man, you're doing, you're probably doing such good work.
00:15:34
Speaker
Like you're probably doing such good work for the community, for the city, for people. And I've heard that more than I can count on two hands, which has always caught me off guard, but it gives me a lot of hope. It gives me a lot of hope in what we do. I don't think that the stereotype of, man, people are hostile because I think we always have to remember, right?
00:16:00
Speaker
Like people fall on a spectrum. It's not always this black and white, either you're for us or against us. I think that there's this spectrum that we land on. It's like, this is probably a, probably a terrible illustration, but it's kind of like pizza, you know? Like there are some people who will probably be like, it's my favorite food in the whole world and I will eat it every day. And then there's probably people on the other side who are like, I absolutely hate pizza and I don't even want to see it in my site.
00:16:27
Speaker
And then there's everyone in the middle who's like, yeah, you know, maybe I'll have it once a week or once a month or yeah, I like this pizza, but maybe not this one. And I think that it's kind of the same when it comes to faith and when it comes to especially approaching this person of Jesus and Christianity. Um, I would say this though, Ryan, what has been interesting about interacting with the amount of people that I have is that, uh, especially people who have come maybe come to faith in Jesus. Um, they oftentimes.
00:16:56
Speaker
do not want to be affiliated with Christianity in the word or the language Christianity, but they do want to be affiliated with the person of Jesus. And so that has been a really interesting thing for me. I found myself asking people like, hey, are you comfortable calling yourself a Christian at this point? You know, like we've kind of been exploring all this stuff and
00:17:19
Speaker
And they'll say, you know, I have a hard time calling myself a Christian, but I will call myself like a follower of Jesus or someone who knows Jesus and loves Jesus. And so that has been kind of an interesting thing. But yeah, to answer your question, sorry for the long winded answer, but yeah, I think it surprised me that people, people for the most part are pretty accepting. But again,
Identity Crisis: Followers of Jesus vs. Christians
00:17:43
Speaker
I think that that's also the cultural narrative, right? Like the culture in which we live in today just says,
00:17:49
Speaker
you know, hey, accept people for who they are and what they believe. And to reject that, you know, would be would be a bad thing. So, you know, it's interesting. But yeah, you're right, though. My experience has been people are pretty, pretty positive, actually, towards towards what I do and towards people who are just trying to, you know, help people, honestly.
00:18:13
Speaker
I'm confused, though, by the people saying that they aren't ready to call themselves Christians, but they are ready to follow Jesus. Well, I don't understand that. What does that mean? Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's a great question, Joe. You know, in our country, and again, this is my perspective and what I think a lot of people are feeling or have felt
00:18:42
Speaker
Christianity, that word Christian or Christianity comes with a lot of cultural baggage. It comes with a history of things that people have done in the name of Christianity. And again, it's nothing about a political stance or anything like that. But I think over the last few years, we've seen Christianity kind of
00:19:08
Speaker
that language or reality come to the surface and people use it in a really extreme political way. And so I think that while people are loving this Jesus and actually love what he teaches and values and what he's about, and so they want to align with him and be about what he's about and just might even say, I actually will call him savior. And I actually believe him to be God.
00:19:39
Speaker
There's still this hesitance to identify with Christianity because of I think the baggage that comes with it. And that's why I always try and encourage people like, hey, the point is not that you would trust in me or a Christian or anything like that, but that you would actually trust in this Jesus because we're going to constantly keep messing it up and we're going to constantly keep letting you down and failing you. But that's not the point. The point is Jesus.
00:20:07
Speaker
and for you to know him and to live in relationship with him. And then as you follow him to sort all of these things out as you go. And so I think that what I'm trying to get at, I guess, is that people are hesitant to embrace Christianity for I think some of the history in the baggage that comes with Christianity versus the beauty of Jesus. Does that make sense? Oh my gosh. Yes. Like listening to what you just said makes me 100% want to say,
00:20:37
Speaker
I want to follow Jesus. I want to be like Jesus, which is what we all want everyone to do. I did not even think about the baggage that has come with Christianity. And just a conversation this morning has wrapped this all together. Someone was talking about their previous experience at a Christian school and being
00:21:02
Speaker
hit and physically abused by one of the teachers. And now that I'm like, oh my gosh, no wonder that's what they're associating with Christianity. Now I understand why they're mad. And I don't know if that just really hit home and kind of like wrapped it all up for me. Like that makes sense. That's amazing, Jill. And that's exactly it. And it is the sad reality. But this is where we're at.
00:21:31
Speaker
And unfortunately, as human beings, we don't do it right all the time. And so that's why it's just like, man, how do we get out of the way and just point people to him? Because, man, yeah, we tend to mess it up. But yeah. Here's what you could clarify for me. I'm wondering if these people you're talking about, I'd love to hear maybe a zoomed in personal story from one of these people you're mentioning, but are they
00:22:00
Speaker
I feel like you've been pretty careful in your collective ministry of advertising it, not as a church, but
00:22:07
Speaker
more like a movement are these people that are wanting to follow Jesus willing to associate themselves with a movement that involves other people and not so much as opposed to the institutional Christianity stuff that you were talking about. Like there's still a communal desire there. It's just for, it's almost like the terms need to change.
00:22:34
Speaker
The term of Christianity, the term of church has bad connotation. Well, maybe they see what you're doing more as, hey, we're defining it as a movement. That's not incorrect or wrong, but while you're using language that works for them, would you say that's... Is that accurate? Am I hitting on something here? Oh, dude, spot on. No, from my experience here, that is exactly what it is.
00:23:04
Speaker
I often will tell people, as an example, and my father-in-law too, as a senior pastor here, he uses this example to illustrate the culture that we find ourselves in, in regards to what you're talking about, Ryan. I have invited probably over 30-ish to 40 people to church, and guess how many have showed up? Zero. Now, on the flip side to that,
00:23:34
Speaker
I have invited the same amount or the same people into a smaller group or community or collective and guess how many have showed up? Every single one of them. So there is absolutely, absolutely to your point of what you're saying, this idea of church is something that I don't think people are super comfortable with.
00:24:03
Speaker
out here. And I think that that narrative is continuing to expand into the rest of the country. It's not just here anymore. And what you were talking about, we have. We intentionally stay away from the institutional type of the way in which we do things, how we talk. We're trying to avoid it, honestly, for the sake of experiment.
00:24:28
Speaker
how is this gonna land and who will this draw and who will we reach and start doing community and life with? And so far, it's been really effective. But again, yeah, it is. People are extremely hesitant, extremely hesitant towards what they've known to be the institutional church. So yeah, no, yeah, I think that you're, I think you're tapping on something that's really important to consider.
00:24:58
Speaker
Yeah. Do you want to zoom in on a story that you're comfortable sharing of how you've brought Jesus into the lives of one of these people? Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. For sure. Yeah.
Mike's Spiritual Journey
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's one in particular that that I love a lot. And I would say this to the stories for what we are just talking about. And then this story kind of ties together this story that I'm going to tell and I'll try to make it
00:25:27
Speaker
Make it not too long-winded, you know this person he he refers actually to collective as his spiritual home and and I think that that's really important because people are Incredibly spiritual. I mean incredibly spiritual and open about their spirituality Now but we also know that people are the fastest growing, you know
00:25:54
Speaker
We want to call it the fastest growing area of spirituality is the nuns I'm sure that you guys have heard about this people who are not affiliated with any type of religion They're the fastest growing segment in our country of people in regards to religion and spirituality Now people may not be religious, but they're incredibly spiritual And so when we hear things like oh, yeah collective is is my spiritual home like this is where I connect with God that's
00:26:21
Speaker
It's exactly what we're talking about. So this this person in particular is the first person that kind of gave put language to to that. I met I met him on a zoom call, actually. So I was invited into a kind of like a group that helps the city process how to create a more inclusive city here in Redwood City. And I was I was asked to be on it. And mind you, I was the only
00:26:48
Speaker
out of a group of about 20, I was the only white person and I was the only clergy person for sure. And so I'm in this group and I find myself in this group and I'm listening to the person facilitating and he started talking about meditation. And I was like, oh, this is kind of fascinating, okay. And so as I was picking up on who kind of what he was about, I'm like, oh, this guy is super open to spirituality. Like I'm gonna continue a conversation with him
00:27:17
Speaker
And so this was kind of still in the middle of 2020, 2021. So we hopped on a Zoom. I was just like, hey, man, really enjoyed today. Like, thank you so much for leading us through some stuff. Do you want to connect on a Zoom? I'd love to get to know your story and just know about you. And so we did. We hopped on a Zoom and we shared stories. His mom is an immigrant from China. His dad's an immigrant from Mexico.
00:27:44
Speaker
and grew up in Southern California, was accepted into Harvard. So he's a super intelligent guy. Ended up at Stanford. That's kind of how he landed here because Stanford is only about 15 minutes down the road from us. And he just loves the community, loves the city, loves nonprofit work. So he is doing that work and him and I actually just kind of formed a friendship.
00:28:08
Speaker
And eventually, I just said, hey, would you be open to because I know at this point, you know, he's he's super spiritual, super spiritual and very open to to who God is and what it means for his life.
00:28:21
Speaker
And so I just said, hey, would you be open to exploring the person of Jesus with me? There are these things called the Gospels. And he was like, oh yeah, I know the Gospels. And I'm like, would you want to read one with me? And so we started walking through the Gospel of John together and we would read it. We come together and talk about questions we had and notes that we were taking. And eventually after, I don't know, two months or so, about halfway through the book of John, he just said, Corey, I think I believe in who Jesus is. And I just want to, I want this to be,
00:28:51
Speaker
who I follow and this is what I want my life to be about. And so we go on from there and at that point collective had been up and running and so we're holding events, we call them social so we gather at local coffee shops and rent them out and have live music and vendors from the city come out and they sell their jewelry and their paintings and stuff like that and we're meeting people and he would show up to these events and so he's getting to know
00:29:17
Speaker
our team. He's getting to know people who are part of Collective who are either following Jesus or not following Jesus. And then, yeah, eventually I asked him this question. So Mike, would you say that you're comfortable calling yourself a Christian? And he said, no, I don't think I want to call myself a Christian, but I will call myself a follower of Jesus. You know, mind you, he's also bisexual.
00:29:42
Speaker
So he's exploring what does all of this mean? He's immersed in the LGBTQ plus community. And so Christianity comes with a lot of baggage in that community. So now he has to navigate, okay, if I'm open about faith in Jesus, what does that mean for my social relationships? And so that's a whole another layer to it. We've got another guy who reconnected with his faith, had a lot of abuse in his background and story.
00:30:12
Speaker
He fully transitioned, so he was a female transitioned to becoming a male. And highly influential on social media has a huge following. And he puts collective in his Instagram bio because he calls it, he just calls it his home and his safe place to connect with God. And so, you know, there are stories like this that we're running into that are mind blowing.
00:30:42
Speaker
that seem to be fascinating, at least to me, and I'm learning so much about what it means to follow Jesus. And then there's this interesting dynamic, right? And we're like, I've got one foot in the institution and one foot out of it. And so I'm deeply connected to the institutional church and yet creating something with a group of people that it's not institutional at all.
00:31:09
Speaker
And then you navigate things like that, right? Like, what do you do with this group of people where you've got one who is a Forbes 30 under 30, and yet at the same time, this person who's working at Home Depot and is navigating faith and all this stuff. So it has been fascinating, but I hope that those stories, maybe they help paint a picture and kind of illustrate what this is about. I would say that
00:31:35
Speaker
The word that keeps surfacing that I find fascinating is safe. And it's the theme that I keep finding over and over and over again is safe. People wanna know that there's a safe place to know God and a safe place to know him with people. And to me, I think that that word is going to become increased more and more important
00:32:04
Speaker
for ministries and churches and people who follow Jesus to embrace and to allow that to take center stage for people who aren't quite sure, can I be safe with this? Can I be safe with these people? Can I be safe being who I am and exploring this stuff? And I think that that's gonna become just more and more important, but that's what we keep finding here with collective and with people here in the Bay.
00:32:30
Speaker
Jill and I are on the verge of tears. I'm actually crying. You telling that story is bringing back memories of when I got to watch my friend Patrick at Baptizing College and knowing his story and realizing
00:32:46
Speaker
It was simply out of the boldness of some people who decided to care for a person who was right in front of them. It wasn't that he went to the most impressive institutional church out there. In fact, I've had a lot of failure in approaching church from the institutional level as far as
00:33:12
Speaker
you know, getting friends when I was in college, you know, you would take him to the church with the best music and the best preaching. And they're like, yeah, that's pretty good. But you know, don't need to go back. Even if you got them in the door. And this friend Patrick, oh man, invited him to church many times. I even I even got him.
00:33:35
Speaker
to drop something off for me at church in the hope, like I was at my church and like, Hey, I left this thing. Can you come bring it for me? And then also come in and worship with me. He drops it off. He's like, no, I'm not coming in and I drove away. So he's in the parking lot and I can't get him in. There is something in your voice that just like,
00:33:59
Speaker
It does make me feel safe like it brings me in like I just want to keep talking to you Cory and it's people like you that are so important to have because when
00:34:13
Speaker
you talk about these really, really tough conversations and specifically with sexuality and to hear the way you were talking about it in just, and I mean this, and I don't even know if I'm saying this right, but like in a very confident manner where I think a lot of us are tiptoeing around it because we're still trying, you're like, what is right? What is wrong?
00:34:41
Speaker
I, and Ryan knows this, we've talked about this, I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast, but definitely off the podcast, like one of the things that I, that breaks my heart is loneliness. And when I think about those people that feel lonely because of whatever it is that they're deemed not to be a follower of Jesus, like we need,
00:35:11
Speaker
We need more people like you that are like, hey This is a great place and it's safe and keep sharing your love Yeah, no and and thank you for that joe and and I I would just say this I I think that you know, um, I work with with an organization here that it's it's across the nation too, um, it's called link linc and in link bay area, you know something that we talk a lot about and I think that this is this is what
00:35:41
Speaker
what I continue to wrestle with is the gospel, this good news of the God who created you, he sees you, he knows you, he loves you, and he just desires to be with you and live in relationship with you. That message is best shared with safe people and safe places. And here's the reality is that I think that the more we can continue to shift the reality
00:36:12
Speaker
we have to create a building that is safe. I think that we're gonna be much more effective, Jill, in reaching lonely people who are hurting and isolated and just want connection.
Creating Safe Spaces for Exploration
00:36:24
Speaker
We're gonna be so much more effective in reaching those people if we stop viewing it as a building that's safe or a program that's safe or a church that's safe or a ministry that's safe to a relationship that's safe. And do I have a relationship that is safe enough with someone
00:36:40
Speaker
who I can be honest about myself and where I'm at and just figure this out. And because people are going to listen to someone they trust. And so it's so much about shifting the conversation from buildings and institutions, which we've been talking about, to relationships and having
00:37:01
Speaker
People who follow Jesus create safe relationships where people can get to know Jesus as they live life. And so, yeah, it's so good. So good. Wow. I've got one more question for you. And here's what it is. I'm going to bring the word. Can I bring the word, Jill? You're allowed to bring the word. I'm thinking about bringing the word.
00:37:26
Speaker
to a completely different culture and a completely different context than what you're used to. And Corey, you had that experience. You grew up in the South with me. We ate barbecue, and we went to church. I mean, that was us. And that ain't the Bay Area, OK? No Bojangles out there, right? Oh, come on. That's heartbreaking. Yeah. Well, man, you look at the book of Acts.
00:37:50
Speaker
And you look at Paul. Yeah. He goes to the Areopagus. He goes to Athens. And what does he do in this different culture is he finds common ground before he makes his statement. He finds what is respectable and lovable about what these people are doing before he then tells them the gospel. He even quotes their own philosophers. He quotes people that they respect. He says, look, I've read your people. I know what it's like. OK.
00:38:19
Speaker
And here's what Jesus has to say in light of it. So I respect you and meet you on this level. And now I'm gonna step in and show you where the gospel can fit in this framework you've got of the world. Even the early church man, I'm reading some stuff right now for school. I mean, that was their thing. Okay. We're gonna dress like the Romans to reach the Romans. We are going to find common ground. Basically, their belief was
00:38:49
Speaker
What you're trying to convince people of, what you're trying to tell them, isn't worth it if you can't find common ground. Your argument, what you're going to say is ineffective if you can't find common ground in a place to connect with them. So when we look at the next generation, and when we look at millennials, which man, they ain't the next generation anymore. Okay.
00:39:08
Speaker
They got, they got, you're one of them. Okay. Kids, instead of otherizing them and trying to fix the problems they've got, the first priority is finding common ground. And it sounds like you, you maybe have done some of that with.
00:39:28
Speaker
these people. I'm thinking about that person who heard you were a pastor. And the first thing they said was, you know, even with these cultural oppositions to the institutional church, they heard you were a pastor and said, oh, you must be doing such good for the community. Maybe that's some common ground. You know, a good theologian would say, well, I'm out here preaching the word of God. But they saw you as someone who loved the community. And maybe that's common ground. But I'll ask the question, what
00:39:56
Speaker
What is the common ground you're seeing? Are there some things that are admirable in some of these people you've talked to that we could be on the lookout for people like that in our own community? Yeah. Oh, man. That's such a good point, Ryan, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's kind of that cliche of
00:40:20
Speaker
Let's not have people know what we're against, but what we're for. And it is kind of a cliche, but there's a lot of truth in it. There's a lot of truth in it. And how can I live in a relationship or how can I have a seat at the table with people who may firmly disagree with my faith? And yet, can we work together on things for the common good? I'm thinking about the reality of like, in Jeremiah, right,
00:40:50
Speaker
Uh, when, when they're exiled and there's that, you know, Jeremiah 29 11, right? Famous kind of words, but the context in which God spoke, that was so powerful because he starts talking about, Hey, I want you to settle down and I want you to plant gardens and I want you to marry and I want you to have kids. Um, and, and the way that I see it is like.
00:41:08
Speaker
Hey, look, I I know that this isn't ideal and I know that this actually might be hard to to stick in relationship and trust me in this process But what I want you to do is work for the common good and the human flourishing of the people that are there and I think that in that same little portion it says that when the when the city when the city prospers when the people prosper you will prosper and so like there is this
00:41:32
Speaker
this reality of like, man, can people know that Jesus actually cares for people on the margins? Like, can we actually say that Jesus actually doesn't agree with being racist? Like, can we just say that? And can we say that I can I raise my hand and be like, oh, yeah, I actually am not OK with that either. And can we have a seat at the table and work together towards solving problems that we see in our city?
00:42:01
Speaker
Um, you know, and, and that's kind of, I think what you're, what you're hitting at Ryan is, is super important. And I think that, um, that that's something that, that we're seeing all the time, you know, because of, because of our curiosity to ask the city, Hey, what are you guys noticing in, in parts of the city? Um, what's hurting right now? Who are the people that are hurting and why, um,
00:42:28
Speaker
And just the curiosity, just the curiosity, they invite us to the table and to say, hey, you can sit at this table with us because we know that you care for this city, you care for the people. And let's be honest, and you're not gonna throw your faith in our face. And I think that that's another reality that we have to check, is are we willing to leave some stuff
00:42:57
Speaker
behind or at the door when we walk into the room for the sake of the relationships that are forming in the room. And sometimes we have a hard time doing that because we feel like we're disappointing Jesus in some way. And yet, man, that's when the good stuff is going to happen. So I don't know, Ryan, if that answers your question, if that's what you were looking for. But I definitely think what you're saying, it's
00:43:27
Speaker
imperative. I think that it's really important. So Corey,
Open Invitation for Engagement
00:43:31
Speaker
if individuals would like to reach out to you and I don't know, whether they just want to talk or whether they are in the Bay Area, how would they get a hold of you?
00:43:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And I would love that. I would love that more than anything. I think email is probably the best. Yeah, email is probably the best. It's my personal email, which is which is solid for me. It's just my last name and first name at gmail.com. Gary D Corey at gmail.com would love to meet anyone, talk with anyone, set up a call or zoom or or meet in person. It would make my day.
00:44:09
Speaker
I will have that on our show notes at normalgozalongway.com. And I am just so, so incredibly grateful that I was introduced to you by Ryan. I cannot wait to meet you in person. I, oh my gosh, I just can't wait to even talk to you some more. Whether it's Zoom in person email, you have really moved me. So thank you so much for your time today.
00:44:34
Speaker
Oh, no, thanks. Again, I'm so excited to have talked with you and shared a little bit about what God is doing here and super encouraged by the both of you. And I love hearing the compassion for people in you two. And I know I get to personally experience it with Ryan, who means so much to me. And now, Jill, to hear it in you, I know that
00:45:00
Speaker
God's going to keep using this and you guys in a massive way. So thank you. Thanks for letting me be a part of it. It was awesome.