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Pokemon Month: Pokemon: The First Movie (1998)
143 Plays10 months ago
Welcome to Pokémon Month! This month Satsunami is joined by wrestler and Pokemon fan Martin MacAlistair! Join the duo as they explore the vast world of the most popular media franchise out there, from rumours and fan creations to the first film and even a trivia quiz. So if you want to be the very best like no one ever was, join us on the 02/02/24 for our debut episode!
In this episode, Satsunami and Martin discuss the impact of the first ever Pokemon Movie! But due to it's reverence with fans of the series, does it still hold up in 2024? Or are there some issues that even a laboratory cannot fix? Get your philosophical musings ready as we take on Pokemon: The First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back.
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Review it Yourself
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Transcript
Introduction and Pokémon Month Kickoff
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi I'm Mark McCaster. Welcome to Chatsunami. We're here for a very special month. It's Godzilla month. It's
Introducing Martin McAllister and Movie Experiences
00:00:08
Speaker
not Godzilla month. It's Digimon month. Welcome to Pokemon month.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to the third episode of Pokemon Month. My name's Satsunami, and joining me today is the cat with handles himself, Martin McAllister. Martin, welcome back.
00:00:38
Speaker
But anyone not having listened to our commentary of the Pokemon movie is going to be like, what is he talking about? Glad to be back. I wish you hadn't introduced me as that, but thank you for having me on. So keep you on your toes. I've never been more surprised by an introduction. Full commentary track available in patreon.com forward slash Chad Tsunami. Right. So yeah.
00:00:59
Speaker
Did you like my radio voice then? So yeah, today we are indeed going to be talking about the Pokemon movie which, oh boy, we are just, as of recording this episode, we have just finished watching it. This is probably the, I don't know, 150th time we've watched.
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm doing 51st of course and not a film. I have to say this is a film that I didn't really watch after I'd watched it when I was younger and then you know maybe I checked it out once or twice growing up and then the turning point I think when I thought maybe
00:01:31
Speaker
this isn't as good as I remember was when of course you had the bad movie nights and I would go to yours and there was one night when it was just me that turned up and it was just you and I and we decided to watch the Pokemon film and the Digimon film back to back and oh what an experience.
00:01:48
Speaker
What was quite funny is when I said to people I watched a Pokémon movie at this bad movie club, people were aghast, astonished, appalled. They couldn't believe that I had the audacity to say that the Pokémon movie was bad because like you, I went to go see it during, as we like to call it, Pokémonia. We saw it in the cinema. We were discussing that during the commentary track but we both saw it as it came out. Either that week,
Plot Challenges and Character Analysis
00:02:11
Speaker
that release, Pokémon movie was gigantic.
00:02:13
Speaker
and it was such a moment in time that anyone who is out age believes this film to be incredible.
00:02:31
Speaker
Get the comedy tag up. Go watch the film because you're in for a surprise. Yeah that is very surprising I have to say. It is one of these films that you remember being amazing and then you see the critics of the time, like especially it's Cisco and Ebert. Roger Ebert? Yeah. They really tore into it. They said oh it's only good if you like the show and everything. If you like the property I can see
00:02:55
Speaker
Why people don't like it? But for anyone who doesn't know or just needs a wee refresher, the story follows the... I am fascinated by how you're gonna tell this! What is the plot of this film? It folds his arms and everything! So it follows the titular adventures of the psychic cat known as Mucher! Who is striking back. Who is striking back. Why? We don't know.
00:03:16
Speaker
The film never quite explains. So yeah, this film is a fascinating one. It follows basically the adventures of Ash who gets a... I want to say an e-vite? From Knott. Local single in his area. Exactly, yeah. Spoilers for this film by the way but not Nurse Joy. And he ends up going to Nylund. He comes across this Pokemon who has become quite peeved at the world because he was experimented on. I think we all would to be honest. And yeah,
00:03:45
Speaker
and his adventure to catch him all, we decide that he was, as far as I remember,
Moral Lessons and Critiques
00:03:53
Speaker
there is a tie-in episode where we see the events of Mewtwo bursting out of the gym and he blows up, he blows up without doing gym and
00:04:07
Speaker
He runs away, all of that. So it means that Ash at this point wouldn't have had all eight badges, nor would he have challenged the league. So at what point in his head did he think, I'm gonna pull a Goku here, and I'm gonna challenge the most powerful Pokemon trainer who is swinging his tail as it were, to say I have the biggest tail here, I'm gonna be the very best, and Ash says, not over my cold dead body. Are you gonna say you're the best?
00:04:36
Speaker
drowns going over to try and stop this person. And this is Ash, you see that he hasn't won all eight badges. Ash hasn't won any badges because the first two he gets given a pity. He beats Brock, Brock he gets clean but I think he gets misty. Misty just gives him the badge. Lieutenant Serge just gives him the badge. So he barely beats any of the people on his on his role. So at least Mewtwo was gonna be like, I'm the most talented in the world but don't worry about it. Actually it's you Ash. He was gonna lose regardless.
00:05:02
Speaker
I mean, do you remember how we got the rainbow badge? He's straight up wise and pretends to be a girl. Wow, Ash, this is our hero of deception. And then he stops it from burning down. I think the only ones who really won were, I don't know if he did it with Koga, but he won it for Blaine because I think he...
00:05:22
Speaker
It's a volcano. It's like, give me your badge. So he's like pumped up. He's like, yeah, I'm going to beat this most powerful trainer in the world. And you're like, why the? Why are you doing this, Ash? You're the anime cliche. He's like, I have to test my strength. He's going in there with a squirtle and a Bulbasaur.
00:05:38
Speaker
I love Squirtle and Bulbasaur but they are not tournament ready. They're okay. They are a hundred percent. They're gonna get bodied. And he's like, you've got these guys. So yeah, they end up, they go to the island, they find out, oh, plot to us. Mewtwo is
Animation Quality vs. Plot Simplicity
00:05:51
Speaker
there. Although, you know, the film's called Mewtwo Strikes Back if you weren't expecting Mewtwo. I've gotta ask, what were you expecting? They're so
00:05:58
Speaker
much like this is something we talked about as well in the commentary there's so many deep moments in this song some amazing lines like for example Mutu's line of talking about what's not who you are at birth that's what you're doing this life that defines you paraphrasing there but at the end of the day it's like really deep stuff but then beside him you've got a pink cat going there and going
00:06:19
Speaker
So there's a bit of a total shift, doesn't there? Even the film itself, it's like, obviously, I guess this might be an element of four kids or whatever, but the plot itself is pretty grim. YouTube is tortured and experimented on, forms this island using undisclosed amount of magic powers, then invites those trainers there and starts trying to outflow their Pokémon in order to kill them, but also, haha, because Meowth got hair pulled off his butt and is really upset about it. You know what I mean?
00:06:45
Speaker
kind of like total shift as well of the trying to get the comedy in with a tragedy and it's like maybe for a kid yeah maybe for kids it's funny but like it's a tough balance and I don't think they need a lot at all in this film no they 100% do not need like nothing in this film you're just kind of sitting there like oh my god this is for kids right?
00:07:02
Speaker
as Ash Gets Killed spoilers again. This is something again I was saying to you before but it's really bizarre the tonal whiplash in this film especially since I would argue that this is one of if not the darkest entries into the Pokemon world and Pokemon films because I mean there is the dark elements and the
00:07:22
Speaker
third film I want to say. The second one's just like a creep who's in a flying fortress playing chess and he wants to catch birds so he can get an even bigger bird under the water. Really really weird guy. The third one's about loss and things because you vaguely remember it's like a wee girl who loses her dad and then she thinks auntie's her dad and everything. It's a strange strange film but again you know there's some
00:07:43
Speaker
elements there that are alright but this is by far the darkest because he talks about what it means to be alive, what is my purpose in this life and I know there's bits and pieces in the Japanese version that maybe fills it out but I don't know if that makes it
00:08:00
Speaker
it, you know, because you still have those comedic elements, you still have Meowth getting... and everything, you still get those elements. So it's a strange one, but would you say in terms of when this film came out, so late 90s, I mean generally about definitely late 90s, would you say this is definitely like a product of its time? A hundred percent.
00:08:20
Speaker
I was gonna say, the more we talk about this, the more it's like, but it worked for the kids, you know what I mean? Like, we talk about the critics, not like we talk about this, and they were right, and I feel sorry for my, retroactively feel more and more bad for my parents today as a kid. Me too. And I remember, yeah, that mentions in the comic track as well, but I remember loving this film. Oh yeah. And I thought it was just a great
00:08:38
Speaker
thing I've ever made when I was a kid. So there's something, no matter how much we critique it, no matter how much we ransack the plot, whatever, whatever, there's something about it that must have been good for us. Because I mean it's something we pointed out but the animation, see compared to the show, the show is like, I think I made the comparison of it's like South Park versus, I don't know, Studio Ghibli or whatever.
00:08:59
Speaker
But, you know, it's terrible animation in the show compared to this, where instead of showing the Pokémon a PNG of it just flying across the screen, it's like, oh no, Bulbasaur! You're like, you're just going to repeat this several times, and they do it for an effect. But in this realm, you see the full visceral action and everything. And can I just say, one of the best things about this film, or best things to ever come out, is the, not reimagining, but the cover of the theme song, which is absolutely incredible, and it goes over such a really
00:09:30
Speaker
and they know it's good. I always laugh in like James Bond movies where like they drop the soundtrack because they know the scene's good and this is the same, it's like they knew this fight scene was class and they were like we're putting the soundtrack over this because this is one of the best themes in this fight scene is that is honestly one of the highlights of the whole film is that fight scene right at the start. It has a brand new Pokémon in it that we've never seen before and the scene, the fight scene's great, it doesn't really matter, it's just a bit of a ash showing off but that's kind of what you need sometimes. You hear us getting the showing off and it's great, it's a great start to the film.
00:10:00
Speaker
Because even today, I'll listen to that, and you still feel that kind of nostalgia. But this is the thing though, it's
Comparisons with Other Anime Films
00:10:06
Speaker
almost like getting that chocolate bar, let's say, right? You know, and the first time you eat it and you're like, oh, this is amazing and everything. But then you still have to stand in the room for another hour and a half. Okay, maybe two and a half.
00:10:16
Speaker
You know, you're sitting there thinking, nothing's happening. And then by the end of it, the guy who walks you in the room comes up and said, you were never in the room, and then walks away. And you're like, well, no, no, I was. I was here. I heard the chocolate bar, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that that happened. But anything after the first 20 minutes, and what I'm referring to is the fact that they have this moral lesson at the end, which was something that was massive, wasn't it? In the 90s, early 2000s, they had to have a strong moral message for kids, which don't get me wrong. I do appreciate it. But at the same
00:10:45
Speaker
time. YouTube has this oh yes I know that you know you should use your life for good oh by the way I'm going to wipe your mind. Yeah so the moral message isn't for Ash and the company it's for us watching it. It's so weird that because these moral messages South Park would parody it with you know I learned something today they would say at the end of the episode and that's what the joke was but Ash and his team they learned nothing from this film because the film is undone by the end of it. Because I could be wrong but I
00:11:10
Speaker
I think the sequel to this film, and this is something that's saying to you as well, there's a sequel. It's not computer's revenge by someone like that. Mewtwo is something but strikes back again. There's Cassina Knapp when he goes to wipe them everywhere and they're like Mewtwo no! And he doesn't wipe them anywhere.
00:11:26
Speaker
they do remember, but I have to say I find the retcons as a complete side tangent, but I find the retcons on YouTube is the origin really weird because you get ones where it's like he's voiced by a completely different person. I don't mean a dang green sounder like death and that like, shoot a completely different person. It's like, oh, they can make it evolve now and everything.
00:11:45
Speaker
What you're telling me there's multiple mutants? And then I think the final anime, I just saw the clip of it, it's like, oh look, Ash writes mutant. I thought, what kind of funny channels made this up? The Pokemon Company. Oh no! What are you doing? Yeah, so it's so weird. Have you watched the... it's on Netflix, I don't know who made it. The remake. Yeah, the CGI. I haven't watched it. I'm curious though if you've seen it and then how does that compare to this one? Oh, so ugly.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, so it's not CGI. I really dislike that style of animation to begin with, which is why I didn't watch it. Yeah, it's not even nice CGI. I can't remember it. It's been so long since I've seen it, but from what I remember, I just remember sitting through the whole thing going, the CGI is so ugly. Because, I mean, say what you will about some of the animation on the show. This does look really good at times when they're swimming through the ocean to get to the tower, when they're trying to save their Pokémon and everything. You can't say this isn't
00:12:41
Speaker
visually appealing as a film. No, this film is fantastic. And I think that is probably one of the draws and I can't believe I'm reducing it to eye-cutting essentially. But getting to see the thing that you like, because bearing in mind the TVs we had when we were kids, they were not good TVs, it was the CRT.
00:12:59
Speaker
I see your tea still, so to see it on the big screen was such an upgrade, which might be to explain a lot of why I think this film was so good before we watched it. It's just so bizarre that you go from a thing that looks so good, and as we said, you know, that would be the appealing thing, and then, yeah, all of a sudden you've got
00:13:16
Speaker
that one with no plot. You know, just nothing. It's paper thin. I mean, if
Mewtwo's Role and Character Expansion
00:13:21
Speaker
I could think of a Pokémon that was paper thin, I would have a DeGio. I can't think of anything more paper thin than this plot. Because again, I'm not even gonna accept, even when people say, because this is something we talked about when we talked about the Beyond the Games and
00:13:36
Speaker
the very first episodes of this month when we were talking about how all Pokémon's a franchise for kids and things. But I don't accept it when it comes to the films and the anime as well because there's hundreds of media out there, whether it's western Japanese, there's lots that can appeal to everybody. It just doesn't have to appeal to the kids. And I have to admit, I'm certain like probably the critics of the
00:14:00
Speaker
the time but you don't have to make something that's dumbed down like I wouldn't say it's dumbed down because there are a lot of good moments in it but they just pull it back. It's hard to think what they were trying to aim for because you're saying like did they dumb it down for the kids but then it's like well then the plot wouldn't have been so dark the plot would have been I don't know me to invite Ash over for tea and then they fight and then the film ends so it wasn't even like you know I mean it would have been funny and it would have been childish it's not childish it's just
00:14:28
Speaker
I don't know if maybe they thought the animation was so good it would carry it so therefore they didn't need a film or was it a budget problem that they only wanted to animate two or three rooms but then I don't know if that saves money in animation? You know what I mean? I don't know enough about animation to know but the locations in this film you have...
00:14:46
Speaker
You have hills, the inside of labs and in the stadium and then the elaborate tea room that you didn't holler at and that's kind of it. There's a couple of docks but you know they keep the locations quite minimal and I don't know if that's maybe the trade-off that they then had to have a really simple plot so they didn't have to move about a lot but then why? Because they can just do what they did in the Pokemon show and reuse stuff and pretend that they
00:15:08
Speaker
move location you know and it's animation lets you do stuff like that so the film itself is around 15 which you know it doesn't need to be gigantic in terms of plot but you know something like Toy Story or something it's maybe an unfair example because it's one of the greatest films I've made Toy Story but the plot for that is very very simple but it's not thin a lot of things go on and then the film ends you know this felt like the worst version of My Neighbor Totoro when nothing happens and then nothing happens some more
00:15:33
Speaker
Because the thing is, when you have your cough notes as one page worth, in fact not even one page, you could probably fill that into half a page where Mewtwo gets created, gets jaded at the world, creates a evil lair. Heroes travel over to defeat them, they don't defeat them, they get back up again, they're never gonna take me down, and then... Do you see what I did?
00:15:56
Speaker
I think that's what's interesting though is a lot of the plot, I know you've been slightly facetious, but a lot of the plot happens in the first 10 minutes. So the whole setup of them getting to this, because I actually was confused when we were watching it because I was looking at the clock and we'd only been recording for half an hour and they were already fighting you two. And I was like, it's 45 minutes of the film left? What are we doing? You know what I mean? It's like home dads and the nineties.
00:16:26
Speaker
And then from that point on, from that marker where they first fight Mewtwo, they do not leave that room essentially fighting the stadium and they go underground to the lab, which we've already seen by that point. So they're the two rooms for the rest of the 45 minutes and I think that's probably what makes it feel longer.
00:16:42
Speaker
longer but also so thin is because there's nothing like that.
Cultural Impact of the Pokémon Movie
00:16:46
Speaker
That's the end of the plot. The plot now is fight, fight, fight. A bit of chat that doesn't mean anything. Fight, fight, fight. Ash Dies comes back. Fight, fight, fight. And I love action movies and I love fighting in movies, but you need to have a bit of sizzle.
00:16:59
Speaker
pull it all along. Because I mean it's a bit like, I mean answer any Zack Snyder film in here but you know it's like films that are heavy on action and then they expect you to care about the action when they haven't done nothing to develop it. It's a bit like the beginning of Man of Steel where you see Krypton blowing up, you see things, you know people fighting and everything. It's like oh my god it's a spectacle but then you're sitting there like well why am I caring about this? Why do I have to care about this? I do agree with the sentiments of some reviewers. If you weren't a fan of Pokemon
00:17:27
Speaker
on, you would hate this. You would. 100%. But here's a funny question for you though. Would you say this film is more or less nonsensical than the Digimon film? Well, one thing I was saying the Digimon films created, and I can't believe I'm saying this. Okay, overall I think Digimon is less sensical. Yeah. Because it's three films joined together.
00:17:48
Speaker
But one thing I will say in the Digimon films thing that this film didn't do was they at least spent five minutes introducing the characters. And I know the voiceover guy at the start, this is like, oh by the way, this is Ash and he travels about with Pokémon. But if you don't know what Pokémon is, if you're going into this completely fresh, I guess it's your fault and you're not going to find out what Pokémon is by the end of this film. And at least with Digimon, they were like, okay, Digimon is this Digimon stuff. And by the way, this is how they first met. This guy had put his computer on that day and they turned up. Is it good? No.
00:18:16
Speaker
At least I know what I did you wanted to hear, that's a lie, I do not know what I did you wanted to hear. But at least I understand where they came from. Well this was just like, this is Ash, let's get into it. So if you weren't a fan of you, if this was your first exposure to Pokemon, like probably a lot of these film critics, their exposure to Pokemon would have been by the way my kids watch this. And that Pikachu might be a Pokemon.
00:18:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? That's like, I'm thinking of like, my gran or something. Like, what would you have thought watching this film? And it's like, no, they don't take you along for the ride. If you're not into Pokémon right now, that's it. Tough luck. You're not getting anything out of this film. Oh, you're not wrong. Yeah, it's very much a like-it-or-lump-it problem, isn't it? If you're not invested enough, then too bad coming back.
00:18:58
Speaker
It's a shame. It is a real shame at times, because there is nuggets of a good film in there. And I think something that I have to admit is very, very funny, which I never really thought of when I was younger. But you know how we made fun of in the commentary track? We made fun of how it's called Pokémon, the first movie in Mewtwo Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith, etc. How bold does a film have to be for it to be called the first movie?
00:19:25
Speaker
Because it wasn't retroactively, I'm convinced that it wasn't retroactively called that. Because we even saw it in the title, it said Pokemon the first movie. Because you and another film that did the exact same thing, Duck. Do you remember Duck's first movie? And as far as I know, I could be wrong, this is probably some fan animation.
00:19:43
Speaker
As far as I remember, Doug never got a second couple. I think that actually anything's even more explicit than if they called it the first movie, then maybe it should have done more for people that hadn't seen it before. But it's a bit bizarre to me about this whole thing.
00:19:59
Speaker
I think maybe, obviously times have changed and it's hard to compare Pokemon and that era of anime to anime nowadays, but you and me are both quite big fans of, well, am I here academia? Yeah. The first couple of seasons of that, I think it was some of the best anime ever made. And we went to go see some of the films in the cinema. Those films are very similar to this one, they're non-canon, but they are an overarching plot of two hours long, and it's not just an extended episode of the show. Yeah. Well, I feel like this was pretty much written as an episode of the show, and then they just kept
00:20:29
Speaker
adding to it rather than trying to... it doesn't feel like a film in the sense of like, if this is the first film then maybe make it more expected. Yeah, make it a piece of meat. It doesn't need to be... I guess they wanted to have the big fight scenes but they're not epic in the sense of they are gorgeous and there's some great fights in it but they're not on a big scale. So one of the things that my academia does really well... sorry I won't go into my gridade.
00:20:50
Speaker
too much. What they use the films for is things that will never happen in a TV show, so the certain moments in the movies that just can't happen in a show because they're not canon blah blah. And so maybe they could have done stuff like that, they could have done, I know Pikachu talks in one of the films I think, so they tried it later. He does and then later, yeah. Yeah, so they obviously tried that later, they knew people wanted to see certain things. Don't worry.
00:21:12
Speaker
I am here! You won't be stolen forever! But I feel like they could have maybe tried something like that that made it more grand. It just felt like a big long episode where they stopped writing it halfway through. What do you mean by the crayons and the producers? And then they battle! How many times did they write battle? 152! Oh sweet Jesus!
00:21:35
Speaker
But it does feel like just thinking of the Pokémon anime now that I'm understanding the thought. There's The Fight with Lieutenant Serge
Nostalgia vs. Flaws in Rewatching
00:21:41
Speaker
in the anime which is like episode 10 or something. It's quite early on. I watched it. This is one of the ones I watched. And you fight Serge, you lose his and they go train. Pikachu, will you take the Thunderstone? No. They go train some more and they fight him again. And that's the structure of this movie which makes me think, was this just an episode of TV or two episodes that they joined into a film and then gave it the gorgeous animation later? You know what I mean? Like did they decide to make it a film after they'd already written it? I'd love to
00:22:03
Speaker
know about that because that is something that is really annoying about the anime. As I said before they do reference this film within it but then they never reference it again they just they really brush it off because Jesse and James are like oh Giovanni boss are you okay and he's just like no you fools that is really it.
00:22:21
Speaker
There's nothing really much to it after that. I never brought up again until the Made For TV album, which I'm sure has like a terrible song attached to it that you'd be wrong. But you're right, there's nothing really going on, it's just things happen. But if you had to, condense it. Do you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of one of these episodes where it's like we'll talk for, or even with Andrew or Adam or so forth, we'll talk for baby and
00:22:43
Speaker
A hour and a half, or maybe two hours God forbid. But by the time I've edited that, that's down to an hour and a half, maybe an hour ten. You know, I've cut out like a huge chunk of a lot more ruthless than it used to be. That's the kind of thing. It's as if they just left the raw footage on. Yeah, it's funny. And I guess it's maybe it's unfair in one hand for us to compare it with
00:23:02
Speaker
I like the temporary stuff because was this maybe one of the first anime films released in the cinemas in the west maybe but then films have came out so you know Studio Ghibli existed by this point so at the same time it's not like it was a brand new concept to make films based off of other things like Akira was out by this point so it's not like they'd done it before so I don't know maybe they were trying to play it safe and didn't want to do anything to you but then this is such a conundrum now that I'm actually going to think about what do you think they were trying to achieve?
00:23:32
Speaker
But then they would have made it at least rewatchable. Because I mean this is trending over, and this is an episode we definitely have to go back to at some point, but Hokamania was a massive thing. Especially in the 90s and the early 2000s. I say this all the time, but I cannot emphasise how big it was. It was just, it was everywhere. It was all, because I made a joke in the commentary track. Oh no, newties after my Spingatios.
00:23:56
Speaker
it was genuinely like tomato shapes shaped like pokemon there was oh god there was pencils with pokemon just trying to think like there's so yeah just any kind of product pikachu will be on it and it was absolutely amazing they even had cars and planes for god's sake with pikachu's face on it it was that popular so for them to make a film it wasn't exactly out of life no totally get making the film i guess it's more just why like what his purpose was why did they make it yeah why did they make it like that
00:24:26
Speaker
Going back to what I said before and I know I'm repeating myself here but it just feels as if they had a great idea because seriously all of the Mewtwo stuff I'm really fascinated with and I know there's a lot of backstory and probably scenes that they've caught or brought back together but to come out with that though that's the thing though to come out and be like oh let's put this extra step through crisis
00:24:50
Speaker
against the colorful world of Pokémon. It just doesn't mesh well. I know what they're trying to teach kids. And maybe this is me seeing this from a British perspective because we have a lot of dark media for kids that deals with these very sensitive topics. We are just recording this off the back off.
00:25:08
Speaker
Christmas has passed a couple of months ago there. So we have a programme called The Snowman, which we both know that programme, but that is a child-friendly way to talk about the concept of death and things for children, to say things won't last forever but it's okay, enjoy the time, blah blah blah. I can't believe I'm going this much.
00:25:29
Speaker
But with this, it's Mewtwo having an existential crisis being like, what is my purpose? I have been relegated to Mewtwo. That's an interesting thing as well because Mewtwo, obviously other than Randy, of course, he is not his own thing, you know, like physically obviously is, but a name, he's called Mewtwo. It's like, if I was a clone of you, being known as
00:25:52
Speaker
You know, it's something that's absolutely insane to think it's in a Pokémon film, but it's such a deep and very interesting plot point. And I'm not saying that Pokémon films have to be this deep melodrama or whatever. It can still be fun in the tone they set with the opening fight scene.
00:26:10
Speaker
But, and by opening fight scene, I mean the Ash one, not the one where Mewtwo looks like a whole scientist, one of them people. Also, that's something, actually, because we were talking about how Mewtwo essentially time travelled and reset the clock, and that is something I didn't realise. He set it back to that point, but he didn't set it further back, where they blew up the lab and killed all those innocent scientists. It's like, stop, invincible Mewtwo!
00:26:35
Speaker
I do want to talk a little bit about Mewtwo in that concept because so this Mewtwo isn't the Mewtwo from the games because it can't be because Mewtwo in the games can't travel through time. If Mewtwo from the games is just a Pokémon, this isn't just a Pokémon, right? I know it's been stupid to make that rule but you know what I mean, this isn't the same level of Mewtwo but what is so bizarre as Mewtwo and this just, he has whatever he needs to be at that point in time so we were laughing because he summons a thousand Pokéballs at a mid-air and then those Pokéballs can catch other Pokéballs and those Pokéballs seem to be sentient or
00:27:04
Speaker
some kind of tracking on them, you can time-travel, he builds this magnificent building and it's like, how are you made from Mu? And then does that mean Mu's also like... Does Mu have a mansion in the middle? Yeah, is Mu able to build mansions and go back in time? And it's that problem where they just keep expanding his powers and never tell you, but then if you can do all that, why did he have a clone in the machine? I'm sure they explain that in the film, but you know what I mean? Like, in terms of the levels to it all, it just keeps expanding and it's like... Well, I mean, I think the crazier thing is the fact that Mu lives in South America.
00:27:36
Speaker
I could be wrong but I'm sure that's what the old lore used to be. It was, yeah. He came from South America and he was found by like the researchers or the murals were found by the researchers. Pokemon lore before they actually got a real lore was crazy but yeah just chilling in the Amazon and then he's like oh yeah does he have a big mansion? Is that what the pyramids and
00:27:57
Speaker
I can only assume so. Did people sacrifice people in the name of Muir? There are so many questions. So few answers. As I said, it's just so many interesting ideas, but not enough to support it. They never bothered to explore them.
00:28:18
Speaker
two-part episode maybe then they probably could fit this all in at once but then again I wouldn't like see the upbeat music that they get for the battles where I just get like pummeled by music it's like doo doo doo doo doo doo. One thing
00:28:33
Speaker
I want to talk about this real quick. So one of the big lessons of this film is that Pokémon fighting each other is bad because they bit the bit with the clones and they all fight each other. And I know this is all drowned in everyone's progress. But I feel like it is worth mentioning that they tried to make out that Pokémon shouldn't fight each other. They absolutely should. That is the entire concept of the games. It's like your presidential picture. I'm sick of these people in 2023 saying that Pokémon shouldn't fight each other. In 2024 they should. Damn soft Pokémon. Damn soft Pokémon. They're going to walk.
00:29:04
Speaker
But yeah, the fact that one of the moral lessons they tried to get across is Pokémon shouldn't fight and they have this big sequence where everyone's really upset because they're all fighting. That's what you're doing with them anyway. I don't know why it's different because they're fighting clones. Nobody cried in Star Wars. Nobody cried in Man of Steel.
00:29:20
Speaker
Again, it goes back to that 90s, early 2000s thing of, oh, we could have a moral message and everything which, again, I can understand why. And I think it's a really good thing to have. It's just a shame it's in this Pokemon film. And it's just a shame it doesn't really work in the context of the film they're trying to tell you about. They glorify the fights at the start with Ash and this Team Magma-slash-ack plug in every year, Mr America.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly the thing. They start off the film with a big backdrop scene. I mean, is that doll fan okay? After he got final flashed by... And then, yeah, there's a match-amp that got... I don't know, is that allergic to bubbles? Yeah. He's dead. That ball must have been... Yeah. He got electrocuted and that's like a big thing. People moan a bit. Or not moan a bit, but they point out... They aren't people moaning a lot Michael. People moaning about being electrocuted.
00:30:05
Speaker
There's also the other small minor nitpicks like Pidgeotto, Scythers, Alakazam. Alakazam gets his spoons bent. Can't eat cereal any more. That guy was raging. He's like, my spoons! That was probably a big middle finger.
00:30:25
Speaker
So see overall not even talking to casual viewers because I get the feeling that you wouldn't recommend this film to anybody who wasn't a Pokemon fan but for Pokemon fans and nostalgia people would you recommend us to re-watch it? Everything about this film should make me say no but I almost suggest you should watch it so you know. Does that
00:30:44
Speaker
make sense. I don't want that to sound mean but it was so fascinating to go back and like I said I also watched the Pokemon Show back and I also thought that was pretty terrible. Watch it back and then phone your parents up and apologise. I just thought it was fascinating and I kind of feel like you have to watch it back. I feel like it's a duty now but if you want to preserve it and leave the memories alone I wouldn't blame you but I feel like if I hadn't watched it back and someone said to me this film's terrible I would never have believed them and I feel like by watching it back at least I know they were correct
00:31:11
Speaker
that. Kids were dumb and we were wrong. I don't know. I can't recommend it, but I feel like I have just tell you to go watch it. Yeah, no, I was agree with that. It's just such a strange, strange thing to go back and revisit. Because as you said, a lot of people say, oh, I love this moment when I was younger. And there's a lot of things I liked when I was younger that I've revisited. I've gone, oh no,
00:31:33
Speaker
This is absolutely terrible. Who would like this and then you realise, oh yes, my stupid self back in the day. But yeah, I can't say that I 100% would say, oh, you're going to have a blast with this film. For nostalgia sake and revisiting it, I don't think there's any harm for it. This isn't the worst film you're going to go back and see, but it's not really any better.
00:31:54
Speaker
it doesn't get better when you rewatch it through an adult's lines and you go oh this is terrible but if you still enjoy this film as always I've said this before yeah exactly all power to you for liking it still and still enjoying it because you can still enjoy it we roughed on it quite a bit but at the same time you know I think and again this goes back to point with me hundreds of times but if it was a boring
00:32:15
Speaker
film. Which not getting me wrong, it does get kind of dull at times, but it's got good moments. Yeah, it's got things to talk about. If you didn't have that, then that's the cardinal sin of bad films. If you can't say anything about it, it's not worthy of being a film to talk about. But at least you can talk about things in the film. You can talk about the good, the bad. So yeah, go check it out.
00:32:36
Speaker
Go check it out again just to see, but for the love of God, do not watch the Netflix one. I'm not saying this because it's like, oh, I'm a Pokémon purist, but genuinely, from what I remember, I just remember watching it being like, the animation, this is just so ugly. And it's not even like, oh, it's like cool animation and everything, just ugly. In fact, I'll tell you, I think the Pokémon models are all right, but the humans just look like robots. Five nights at Pokémon? Five nights at Mewtwo, sorry. That's what I should have lied with, but on that note, Martin, thank you so much for reliving this film with it.
00:33:06
Speaker
Absolutely, well I was going to say a pleasure it wasn't exactly but it was good timing, thank you for having me in. So of course next week we will be going on to the last episode of Pokemon Month but if you want to check out our previous episodes of the month, as well as other collaborations we've done, you can check us out at Chatsunami.com. I also want to thank our Pandora patrons, Robotic Battle Toaster and Sonya, thank you so so much for supporting the show. If you want exclusive content as well as the full length audio track,
00:33:35
Speaker
or our full thoughts on the film as well as our general musings because I think we had a lot more general musings this time around. Yeah you can check out on patreon.com forward slash chat some at me. Until next time stay safe stay awesome and most importantly I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are relevant.
00:34:12
Speaker
Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:34:24
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all big podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:34:47
Speaker
Hello my name's Alan and my name's Robin and we together broadcast Radio Leaving 372.
00:35:02
Speaker
Hello, my name's Alan. And I'm Rowan. And this is Radio Leaving 372. A podcast from our pub shed in our garden, the Debuckety Scoory. And we're available across all the platforms that you listen to your podcast on. So join in and listen to our name banter. Thanks for listening. Bye.