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Get to the root!
18 Plays1 year ago
Vernon and Kyle continue their discussion on freedom. The discussion begins with a conversation about some root issues regarding why we might not experience God's freedom.
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Transcript
Introduction to Walking Free
00:00:03
Speaker
This is your host Vernon Terrell with Grace Ministries International and it's time for Walking Free. And
Kyle Jenkins on Life's Ups and Downs
00:00:23
Speaker
we're back. This is Vernon and I've got Kyle Jenkins with me. Kyle, how's it going?
00:00:28
Speaker
Hey, Vernon's going all right. Going all the way in Dallas. Ups and downs here, but I'm sure it's like that everywhere. Absolutely. There's always, uh, in fact, we look at just the world stage, uh, and all the stuff that's going on and talk about ups and downs. Uh, it's just, it's, well, it's, it's in time crazy.
What is Freedom in Christ?
00:00:55
Speaker
and not trying to be an alarmist, but just looking at the reality of all this stuff that's going on, it does make one pause for a moment and say, Jesus, kind of looking up a little bit, is it now? There is a lot going on.
00:01:25
Speaker
One thing that we always want to do on the podcast is encouraging people in their walk.
00:01:34
Speaker
and always is the mission at Grace Ministries International, or GMI, as we call it. It's always to help people walk free. That's what we're about. And we started this topic, your idea, by the way, good one. I said, well, let's talk about freedom, which we hit the last podcast or so, talking about freedom and what it is. But
00:02:00
Speaker
It's like, okay, we know that in Christ I'm free, so there it is. There it is. There it is. It's like, okay, that's it. Well, yeah, you're free. But if we ask for a raise of hands around the virtual room, how many of you are consistently walking free? I mean, you are, you got it. Man, not many.
00:02:31
Speaker
It's tough and maybe churches make it tough maybe with misinformation and all that we but you know It's we got a lot of stuff working against us. Don't you think in this idea of walking free? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we you know not just up against the the world or the flesh the flesh and
00:02:55
Speaker
the world, the flesh, and the enemy. So several players involved. Absolutely, and they're gunning for you, but the beautiful thing is that in Christ we do have the victory, and we've got to stand and start with that, that we have the victory, but we wanted to kind of dig just a little deeper,
00:03:22
Speaker
and talk about, okay, well, I'm free, so how do I experience the freedom? Or maybe we put it in the negative. Why am I not experiencing God's freedom? And we'll kind of mix it all together, kind of see where the conversation goes. But when people are not experiencing freedom, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear someone says, well, you know, Kyle,
00:03:52
Speaker
I'm just, I understand. Yeah, I understand identity. I understand my forgiveness, but I'm not walking free and not experiencing it. What's the first thing that kind of you want to maybe start to tell them?
Recognizing Lies and Finding True Freedom
00:04:10
Speaker
I go immediately, what the Lord brings to my mind is immediately start with, it's like, well, you're believing a lie or many lies.
00:04:22
Speaker
And what is your source? Where is your source for living free? Are you the source? Are you seeing yourself as the source? Or are you looking to Jesus as the source for this freedom that is already rightfully ours? So how do I know? And how does one know if they're believing a lie? If, well, that's what they believed.
00:04:53
Speaker
How do we start to root that out? Yeah, awesome question, so needed. What would you do? Someone's talking to you, how would you get them started?
00:05:07
Speaker
You know, I mean, it's God's given me such a retained recall brain. I could just start spitting out all the verses and yet that doesn't, there's power in the word of God. The truth sets us free, but it's like really needing to hear from Jesus on this. I gotta, I gotta, there, there's a few couple guys that, that I chat with some different people and you know, a lot of the time the Lord brings to my mind of dealing with, what are these bottom? Well, what are these lies?
00:05:37
Speaker
And we were talking before the podcast, it all goes back to our woundedness, to the wounds, to the hurts, to the hangups. We were talking about this question or this statement. It's like, well, giving up on what's not working. Well, what is it that's not working? Well, it's what you believe.
00:05:59
Speaker
because since your beliefs determine your behaviors, Proverbs 23 seven, Matthew chapter eight and nine, tell us that however we choose to, it'll be done unto us how we choose to believe as a man thinks within himself, so he is. And Jesus said, John 8 32, then you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. So needing to have really, this is a place where only God can reveal to us. Well, Lord, what lies in my belief?
00:06:27
Speaker
Why am I believing those lies? And that causes us to then, you know, go deeper with the Lord in this intimacy of, well, you know, take me back to my past of these traumatic events that I've been through, rejections, hurts, whatever's happened to you in your past.
Impact of Past Wounds on Freedom
00:06:46
Speaker
Well, God was there in that past already. That's where you get to meet Jesus as healer.
00:06:52
Speaker
That's where you get to meet him as your healer. That's where you get to have that intimacy with him. And then really have something to really have a real Jesus to share with others with the fallen.
00:07:04
Speaker
broken, busted up, hurting world. Sometimes we think, oh, I dealt with that. Well, we did, and we either dealt with it by stuffing it down or just looking past it so long we just forgot about it or tried to, but it's really there. We haven't dealt with some things and said, oh, here you go. Y'all are counseling ministry. You're going to
00:07:34
Speaker
Bring up my mommy and my daddy and tell me that my mommy and daddy made me. We're not saying your mom or your dad made you do anything. We're not saying the devil made you do anything. Only you can choose to do something. That's your choice. But there are influences.
00:07:50
Speaker
And there are hurts, real hurts, and sometimes it's family. They always hurt the most. Mom and dad hurt the most. Those that we trust in authority hurt the most, whether it's a family abuse or spiritual abuse, someone, a trusted person that has really wounded us.
00:08:09
Speaker
we've got to deal with that and not gloss it over, not try to justify it, not try to, oh, well, they were, maybe everyone has a reason, hurt people, hurt people, get it, understand it, but don't gloss over the hurt. We have to learn to really face it and embrace the hurt and the feelings and the emotions, especially guys that's tougher, it seems, to really embrace
00:08:39
Speaker
and understand, put a word to those emotions and to quote, deal with it and often, how do you deal with
Facing Emotions and the Path to Forgiveness
00:08:51
Speaker
it? Well, the first step is recognizing it and kind of sitting with it for a moment and understanding the impact, recognizing most often to deal with it is to forgive the one who hurt us, whether they're still around or not, doesn't matter.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yes. But that's often the first place, like the starting out of the gate, and that can open up a whole realm of experiencing Jesus when we process through that forgiveness. That's starting gate, people. That's getting it on the road to experiencing the victory that is yours in Jesus. But that is not the end.
00:09:39
Speaker
And one reason is because of that hurt and because of the emotions and however you quote, really didn't deal with it back then. But you and I and all of us developed all of these coping skills and ways that we're doing our best to meet our needs and to make life work. And we call that
00:10:05
Speaker
in the New Testament refers to that often with this word flesh. It's kind of how we deal with things the best we know how. But we developed this and that almost becomes normal. We call it and tag it normal. But well, it's
00:10:30
Speaker
not really the normal Christian life, but it's familiar. I think this is a better word. It's comfortable and familiar, whether it's positive or negative. It could be we've dealt with it with drugs and alcohol and sex and porn and all kinds of stuff that's really not helping us in a community, societal, and in other ways. It's a downhill
00:10:55
Speaker
But it's possible that you dealt with it in a very positive way. I'm going to overcome this and I'm going to go to school and get my education and get my master's and get my doctorate and get whatever else is after a doctorate. I'm not smart enough to know what that would be. But there's probably something after that. And we go and do all the education or work hard and we make tons of money. And and we still haven't dealt with it. We're not experiencing freedom. We're well off on one path.
00:11:25
Speaker
And on the other path, we're scrambling to survive, but both paths, we're not experiencing Christ. And I think you've experienced some of that. And so have I. So what do you say? So here we go. I believed a lie. You've helped me identify the lie. And maybe my step is forgiveness. Often that's first step.
00:11:55
Speaker
What about that lie, so I've forgiven, what there? That's a root. What do we need to do with that lie?
00:12:05
Speaker
We just start, I just keep it simple. It's like, Lord, you begin to renew my mind. Like I need these lies uprooted and replaced with your truth. And, you know, whether people are into the, you know, scripture memorization, I love scripture memorization. It's got to be that deep revelation, though. And God has to do the revealing. You could, like our friend Mike Corals would say, well, you could memorize the whole New Testament.
00:12:35
Speaker
But it wouldn't do you any good unless God reveals that truth to you that sets you free. And Mike would say, right with that, Mike would say, you know, and he did, he memorized chapters and books of the New Testament as he struggled with his addiction to alcohol. And he was basically a very biblically smart drunk, I think,
00:13:01
Speaker
But he says, but when I realized and believed half of a verse, and I use this all the time, the same verse, when I realized that I was dead to sin and alive to God, it was a game changer. It's like not just quoting it and intellectually kind of seeing it, but really believing, wow,
00:13:28
Speaker
This is really true for me. And it made all the difference. I think you're right on target. Yeah, yeah. So much comes to mind for me, and I know how it is for the rest of us in the grace communities that are experiencing freedom.
Trusting God's Truth for Victory
00:13:52
Speaker
For me, it was like God revealed, and now it was time I trust.
00:13:59
Speaker
So believing faith, trust, trusting what God says is true. And now, Christ, I'm trusting you as my life. As my source, I'm walking out in faith, in belief, in trust, that this is true.
00:14:16
Speaker
And you are now my strength. You're finished work. You're in dwelling. You're in dwelling, Lord. So you're my victory. And definitely not an overnight deal. If this is the first time anybody's listening to the podcast and they landed on this message, it's not going to be a snap of the fingers and you're just going to go off and now your life is fixed. It's not going to happen. It will be a process.
00:14:45
Speaker
But we encourage that the time and pace is okay. As you were sharing, I was thinking of with the woundedness, it's easier to know, it's the grace to know that God knows exactly why we act in those ways. He knows why you're acting in the flesh patterns because of your woundedness. And those are those areas that He wants to heal.
00:15:09
Speaker
to replace all those lies that we've come to believe that are really just brought up by the enemy from the woundedness, and yet it is the truth that sets us free. And the verse that you mentioned that
00:15:27
Speaker
our good friend Mike would quote, we're quoting from Romans chapter six, and if we start in verse eight, it's like, well, how do we get to the practical here? Well, let's just dive in on that a little bit, just a bit. He says in verse eight of Romans six, now, if we have died with Christ, and he's just told them all of this, starting in chapter six, verse one, when you go back to chapter five and four, he's building the case,
00:15:54
Speaker
And he goes, he says, you died with Christ. And he's saying, look, if you died with Christ and I already told you that you did because you were in Christ and your old self was crucified with Christ, you died. He goes, now if we die with Christ and you did, we believe that we should also live with him. Not just in the future, but if we died and participated in his death, then we participated
00:16:24
Speaker
in his resurrection. It's like a conditional. If you believed he died, well, then you believed that when he raised that you were raised. Did he rise? Yes, guess what? So did you. And he says in verse nine, well, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again, death no longer is master over him.
Understanding Romans 6
00:16:50
Speaker
For the death that he died, he died to sin once for all. That's gonna be a key phrase, because it's coming to us, but the life that he lives, he lives to God. Even so, consider yourselves
00:17:08
Speaker
to be dead to sin. Why? So you'll be more dead? Hey, I'm going to choose, I'm going to consider myself dead today so I can make myself dead. That's not the point. He goes even so, and the old King James word is reckon yourself dead. It's not like, well, I reckon I'm dead.
00:17:30
Speaker
No, that's that accounting term. It's true. Even so, consider yourselves. You are dead to sin.
00:17:42
Speaker
but alive to God in Christ. And that's just the truth. I just don't feel dead. I know. That's why Paul is telling you, hey, count it as truth because you are. You don't feel dead. You got all kinds of stuff coming at you.
00:18:07
Speaker
You're dead to that. And I'll often say that, you know what, I'm tempted, I feel that, I see it, I'm dead to that. And better than that, I'm not only dead to sin, I'm alive to God in Christ. That is amazing. And that's why Romans 6.12 says this, therefore,
00:18:33
Speaker
And we all know, when you see therefore, you always ask, well, what is it there for? Right? So, well, it's there because he just told you. And he goes, therefore, do not let sin reign in your mortal body. And here's that key, so that you obey your lust. No. So that you obey its
00:18:59
Speaker
lust. Sin is personified as a noun and as this entity, as this principle, and its desire, as we remember in Genesis 4, its desire is for you
00:19:20
Speaker
And it's desire, not like for your good, it's desire is to overcome you. And it's got all kind of lust. Don't let sin's lusts reign in your mortal body. And so that's the challenge. That's what, and how, well first,
00:19:46
Speaker
consider yourselves and reckon to be true the fact I'm dead to sin and life to God. So I can choose not to let this principle, this sin that's coming at me with all kind of stuff, you're not going to reign today in this moment in my mortal body. I don't want to obey sin your lusts.
00:20:11
Speaker
And I'm not going to, in verse 13, to present the members of my body, my eye, my arms, my hands, my legs. I'm not gonna present that to you to have your way as an instrument of unrighteousness, but I'm choosing to present all of me, which God loves every part of me. I'm gonna present my members to God.
00:20:40
Speaker
God loves my bald head. I wish I had hair. God loves my head just the way it is. I'm going to present my eyes, my mouth, my arms, my hands, my feet, my legs. I present all of it. I present that to God as one who is alive from the dead, as an instrument of righteousness.
00:21:10
Speaker
to God. Here you go. And God has made me righteous. He said, Paul said, I pray that your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved as righteous. You know, sin, sin is like a cancer.
00:21:30
Speaker
and our body is decaying because of all this sin, but our bodies aren't sinful. Our body is affected by this thing, this principle of decay, and it does affect our mortal body. That's why our mortal body, well, is mortal and dying. In the beginning, it was not that way. And so God loves my body, my soul, my spirit, all of it,
00:22:00
Speaker
And I can come confident, and I don't have to present this incredible creation to send this entity, if you will, this principle, to have its way. I can present it to God as an instrument. Isn't that cool that we can be an instrument of God's righteousness? I mean, that just blows my mind. What are your thoughts on that?
Daily Mindset and Self-Grace
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, this is the Freedom Corps right here, just knowing that we already are right with God, that we're already dead to these sin issues, we're alive to God. Already creations of righteousness, no longer slaves of sin. It's a process of just learning this, renewing the mind,
00:22:57
Speaker
daily, I like how Colossians puts it, set your mind. And I like how Bill Gilham used to say, it's like, well, God wouldn't ask you to do it if he didn't think you could, or if he didn't think you couldn't. So when it says set your mind, I can set my mind anywhere we want to. I'm going to set my mind on what I know is true and offer myself. And just learning that moment by moment, knowing that it's already been forgiven,
00:23:27
Speaker
I'm now wanting to learn moment by moment, okay, Jesus, how do you wanna meet my needs? How are you meeting my needs? I'm being tempted in this area, but I'm gonna trust you. I wanna trust you right now in this moment that you're overcoming this temptation for me. You said I'm dead to sin, I'm considering it so, not so that it'll be so, but because it is so. I am dead to this, I don't wanna do this. Father, you give me the revelation on this.
00:23:56
Speaker
You just give us the revelation on this and giving ourselves, you know, showing our, extending ourselves grace in time and growing in this. Because of course the enemy is not going to let up and he's, you know, going to want to get us into the comparing thoughts and the condemning thought, the shameful thoughts. Oh, you know, I'm this old now, shouldn't I be a little bit further along the way by now?
00:24:23
Speaker
And that's all coming from the pit. That's not a good shepherd voice. Now, do you really think that our good shepherd is just shaking his head and pointing his finger and going,
00:24:40
Speaker
Well, you should be a lot farther along than you are. I'm gonna just, I'll just have to tolerate you. No, do you know what he's doing? He's right there saying, man, do you know how much I love you? I am so for you. I am with you. Where do you want to go today?
00:25:00
Speaker
I'm with you. Let's go together, because He never leaves us, never forsakes us. His Word for us is always peace and love and grace, always. And when I look at
00:25:20
Speaker
When I look at that verse 12 and it says in Romans 6, therefore do not let sin reign, be the king, be the ruler in your mortal body so that you obey its lust. You know that word lusts? Epithomeia is a general word. Most of the time it's got a negative connotation.
00:25:43
Speaker
But the word is really strong desire. And it's that context that Jesus said in Luke 22, he goes, I have earnestly desired to eat the Passover with you. I mean, it's this earnest desire. The earnest desire of sin is for your detriment. It's not for your good, it's for your bad.
00:26:13
Speaker
Do you know that in your new heart you have strong desires? And often when we're tempted, it's when our strong desires were enticed to fill these longings and desires that are good, that are just normal outside of God's design.
00:26:33
Speaker
And that's where we get tripped up. The enticement is that either, number one, we think we're missing something, kind of like Eve. The enemy said, hey, you can be like God.
00:26:50
Speaker
knowing good from evil, she thought that she was missing out. She was missing something, except the truth was that she was made in the image of God. She was already like God, made in His image.
00:27:07
Speaker
But that was a strong desire. And yet the enemy said, hey, no, you're not quite there. No, no, no, no. But if you do this, oh, you're going to know good from it. You will really be like God. And she fell for it. And Adam fell for it. And well, the rest is history, literally.
00:27:31
Speaker
That's what the enemy does, especially around the truth of our forgiveness, the truth of our identity, the truth of our victory. Oh, yeah, you, you, you, that's good. You want to be victorious. Oh, awesome, awesome. Great. If you'll just do this, oh, you'll be victorious. And we get all wrapped around the axle on doing something to get more victorious or to get more dead.
00:28:01
Speaker
or to get more righteous, or to get more peace. Folks, stop. Just stop. There's plenty of things to do that are good. There's nothing wrong with doing.
00:28:18
Speaker
Just don't be doing the doing to get what you already got. That's the trap. Wrap us up with a couple more thoughts around this idea.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, with this whole, oh, you're complete in Christ and you don't lack anything.
Self-Effort vs. Reliance on Christ
00:28:41
Speaker
So we already have the victory. And some of the verses that Lord had used to really bring this home, and they're quoted in the grace books, Mike's books, your books, and the different videos that you can find online at GMI, Isaiah 50, 11. You know, God's speaking to the, speaking, he's like, well, you who go in your own fires,
00:29:05
Speaker
in your own fire bands, talking about people in their own strength and resource. You know, if you want to try to do that, the Lord's like, I'll let you do that, but this is what you'll receive.
00:29:15
Speaker
you're just gonna lie down in torment, because you're not trusting. You're not trusting God. It's just that self effort. And like the whole, you know, anytime we get, I like how Mike would put it, then you as well, anytime we get away from what has already been done, the finished work, anytime, if it's any program or teaching or system, whatever it is, if it gets us away from what God has already done in Christ,
00:29:44
Speaker
Well, you just get ready for some more failure because you can't add to what God has already done. Crucified us with Christ, now righteous holy saints, you're dead to sin, you're alive to God. You try to add to that and it won't work because the only thing that ever worked is the finished work. Another verse is, yeah, the Psalm 108 verse 12, deliverance with man is in vain or deliverance by man is in vain.
00:30:14
Speaker
I spent years of praying that, Lord, deliver me from this sin. And then eventually he showed me, it's like, I have delivered you. I want you to agree with me. Trust me, son. I want you to trust me. Trust me. Depend on me. The Father and Jesus simply say to me, just trust me. Trust me that I've already done it for you. And now I want to be your moment by moment victory.
00:30:39
Speaker
But the more I tried in my own strength and resource, the flesh, even though it was good looking flesh trying to get victory or attain victory, it just kept setting me back into more failure. Again, how Mike would put it, it's like I was trying to break into a room that I was already in. The room was freedom, righteousness, sanctified, victorious. I was trying to get that as if God hadn't already given it to me.
00:31:09
Speaker
And so that was the massive deception in my life. I was trying to get what God had already given us. I think that's common for so many. And just know that you are delivered and folks, you are free indeed. You have the victory. And that's the first step is to know that. And then to begin walking in that,
00:31:40
Speaker
One starting block, and there's a lot more we can continue on talking, and we may just do another one to continue the conversation, is to come to the conclusion, the truth,
00:31:54
Speaker
I am dead to sin. It has no authority over me. I am alive to God in Christ Jesus. It's done. Therefore, I'm making a choice. I'm not going to let sin, that principle, that power that has its lust and only in its desires for my harm, not for my good, I'm not going to let that rain in my body
00:32:22
Speaker
I'm going to present myself as one who's already alive. I'm not presenting to get more alive as one who is right now alive as an instrument of righteousness. To God, Father, I present what You have made.
00:32:40
Speaker
and the righteousness of Christ that I am. I present that to you, my body to you right now. And if you just get that, let that be a starting point. And we ask you to search the scriptures and learn to rest in the truth of who you are and then to walk in that. And we'll talk more about how to walk. And do know sometimes this human body can work against you. It's mortal.
00:33:10
Speaker
And it can work against you. And so you may need to see a doctor if you feel you've got some imbalances and hormones or other physiological issues. Go to a trusted doctor and get that settled. That's perfectly okay.
00:33:30
Speaker
God, your spirit was crucified and made brand new, but your brand new spirit is living in a body that's just affected by this planet, by this world, by sin, and it's decaying and it malfunctions at times.
Concluding Encouragement to Walk in Freedom
00:33:47
Speaker
Find the good doctor that can help you get that normalized, but just know
00:33:53
Speaker
A pill can help, it's not the answer. Christ is always the answer to experiencing his victory. But if your body's working against you, get some help to help normalize that. So let me encourage you as we continue, we'll continue the conversation on freedom. Let me encourage you to whatever the Lord is speaking to your heart, stop talking about it and thinking about it and start walking.
00:34:23
Speaker
You've been listening to Walking Free, a production of Grace Ministries International in Marietta, Georgia. For more information, go to our website at gmint.org. That's gminc.org.