How 'Bout Them Packers? Dallas Gets Cheesed!

Transcript

Speaker: Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ohana Packers Edition podcast. The Green Bay Packers are 4-2 off of a... Pretty darn good Sunday night win. we Won't go to Stellar because of some of the things we'll cover in Moldy. But, Joe, they did the thing. They secured a win.

Speaker: And honestly, this is one of those coaches dreams, quote unquote wins, where, you know, you won by two scores relatively comfortably. But there's a lot of things that the coaches can go back to and say, like, both the we can do so much better and the this didn't bite us in the ass tonight, but it absolutely could have.

Speaker: And so, like I said, this is one of those wins that coaches, I mean, shoot, I'm coaching my kids. pick up basketball, not pick up my kids basketball team and you know we're not keeping score or anything but yeah I under I fully feel the the vibes off of these kind of games where it's like haha I can still make you guys run extra gassers kind of thing Yeah, I, I guess to Rico said it, uh, towards the end of the broadcast that this was, and three straight wins with while holding the opponent under 14 points.

Speaker: So yeah, it's, uh, but it's a good win. It it's obviously there's, like you said, there's things to clean up. There's things that I wish that,

Speaker: ah I don't know. we'll We'll get to talking about it later, but I just, I, you can't talk complete bad about it because it was a win.

Speaker: But like you said, there are things that need to be cleaned up. that They're there, especially going into a Ford field next week against the lions. So, and true north is glad Quano is wearing a shirt. Cause it appears that showing muscle is banned in the NFL.

Speaker: That's the truth. Someone's face.

Speaker: Uh, or if it's just in their general vicinity. ah so yeah, we'll get into that here in a little bit, but overall good win, ah tighter than I really wish that tighter than it honestly could have been tighter than I'm I wish it was, but yeah, good win.

Speaker: While Mike chows down on his friggin' subway over there. It's gone. but yeah At the end of the day, like you said, it goes in the windbasket.

Speaker: Like we said, we're going get to a lot of the good. ChatGPT is telling us to to um revamp our game plan, so we're going to go things in reverse order of usual. But um we say it all the time.

Speaker: The things that we're going to go over... oh Oh, okay. I was going say, got to hit the button. Oh no, no. I'm just gonna say that the things that we're gonna go over in our negatives side and our negative categories, they're all ones that it's a lot better to be talking been over before? Yeah, that too. But it's, it's, this is one of those, we can laugh about it because it went as well as it could regardless of these things that we're gonna talk about. Alright, now I hit the button.

Speaker: It's a moldy cheese. ah So there's really two... There's two low, low-hanging fruits. Emphasis on the low-hanging fruit. um Not going there, True North, but... um I'm gonna take one, and I'm sure you'll take the other one.

Speaker: You gotta stop dropping the ball. Jordan... Jordan got hung out to dry on a night where um he was absolutely stellar outside of one bad throw that led to the interception.

Speaker: Otherwise, he was dropping... Honestly, i think he was throwing better deep balls than he was last week against Detroit, like, just in terms of... the ball chicago two that he or Chicago.

Speaker: The two that he placed to Golden that Golden broke up to himself, those were in the back corner pocket as well as you could put um two balls that were from 40 yards away.

Speaker: And then the one to Watson, it was unfortunate. Yes, there was a slight fingertip, but you know what? Greg Jennings caught that in the Super It hit him hands. Yeah, and it... distorted the flight a little bit, but it still hit him... It maybe deflected an inch, and even, um... No, I mean it hit Watson in the hands. yeah You don't drop balls that hit him in the hands. Yeah. yeah And even um um his brother Trey was saying, like, come on, dude, come on, nine. You gotta you know that you know that it's bad when when Trey is calling his brother by his number. like That's how you know that Trey is like shaking his head in front of his phone or computer or whatever is when he's calling him nine instead of Christian. So you know it was a rough one and stuff. And it it is a bummer. and Like, um...

Speaker: A couple people tweet tweeted, like, it is absolutely a bummer that Jordan's um streak of games with multiple touchdown passes is broken on a day where he legitimately threw four.

Speaker: But I mean, arguably he still scored two touchdowns today. But yeah, did like i like I said in the lead up in the opening, this is one of those things where um you can kind of like laugh it away. And like, it was a little awkward in the post game because they had um Golden with love on the post game. ah the you know the The walking off the field interview. And I say it all the time.

Speaker: The thing that, um you know, Jordan has all the physical talent. He's really grown as a pre-snap operator and stuff. The thing that is going to tip the scales to Jordan winning a Super Bowl is that he is unflappable in, you know...

Speaker: within Within understandable margins, he's unflappable when it comes to pressure in his face, when the game just decides to chew him up and spit him out, when his guys are dropping passes that he couldn't hand them more cleanly.

Speaker: um And he doesn't show the guys up. And, you know, who knows how he'll be in five years, ten years, when he's a little older and a little bit, you know, he has a little more gravitas than he already does. But...

Speaker: To a man, like the most you get is he kind of does like the head turn and stuff, but um you know he kind of just like, I guess I gotta go do it again kind of thing and stuff. So um help your quarterback out, please, for the the love of all that is holy.

Speaker: um you know and and ah And selfishly, like I said, this is another one of those we can laugh about it because we won the game, but... The irritation for me comes from the like, it gives stupid Bears fans, stupid Lions fans, stupid Vikings fans, stupid national media people who say like, oh, if he's so good, 23 out of 41 isn't great. It's like, he should have been 26 out of 41 with four touchdowns and an interception. And then like I said, the interception is a throw that you you knew when it left his hand. i think he kind of already was like, ah, like crap.

Speaker: I know some people are like, why did he throw the... That's the right read. He had a receiver on a tight end. You gotta take that mismatch. He just left that ball a yard further inside than he needed it to. That should have Golden should have been banging a drum on that one, but...

Speaker: you know Well, let's go ahead and bump into mine with that. And I'm going to put a little bit of, and this, this isn't a full moldy. i This could probably go into just stale, but you brought it up a little bit. i will put in a little bit of Jordan's decision makings on some of his throws.

Speaker: It seemed like early on, he was really trying to fit it in a tight window. And that, would cut you know, i even said it on on Twitter that the interception why are you trying to fit it in there when yes it should be a mismatch between a linebacker and you' one of your top wide receivers but why are you trying to fit that in there so tightly you know either overshoot it and give golden a little bit of a chance to go over the top or you know back shoulder it or something yeah no

Speaker: the um The interception, yeah, throw it wide. Like, throw it wide and let him run to the sideline kind of thing. Yeah. Like, that was one of those, like, there's no defending it kind of thing because it is just like a Like, Jordan, just make a better throw in. That's... you know, maybe it's not a first down because um Winters was in much better coverage than you would expect a linebacker to be. But, like, that's got that's a throw where you say it's got to miss wide or Golden's going to be the only one who can catch it kind of thing. Like you said, there's no reason for it to be, like, even... The fact that it was interceptable was...

Speaker: inexplicably bad from Jordan. like it was To be fair to Winter on that, though, it wasn't that big of a ah route to be covering anyway. It was just a quick out route. Yeah, so ah you would hope your linebacker can at least cover that portion of it. And he had good enough coverage that you know ah it it did cost him the pick. But then there were a couple throws like just after that that it was like... Why are you, I think one of them was to Watson where was just like, why are you trying to fit it in those tight groups? You know, catch one of your guys out later or, and I think that kind of led to a little bit of the income, the, the drops too, was he was putting a little bit of more spunk on the ball than, or smoke on the ball or whatever you want to call it, then what he should have on a couple of them. And it's like, okay, you know,

Speaker: Settle down a little bit. let's Let's put it where these guys these guys should be able to catch it. But if there's nobody around, you shouldn't be throwing a fastball down the middle.

Speaker: You know, give it to the guy so he can make a play afterwards. Not that he's having to... And the one drop by Golden, it looked like he was going to be... You know, the... ah which movie was it it was oh rookie of the year where rowan gardner throws the ball so hard it knocks the catcher clear off his feet that was basically one of the passes the love threw towards golden i was like man you're gonna you're trying to throw him into the end zone not friggin you know just let him catch the ball but i i think that's what goals why it goes into moldy this week is because he's had

Speaker: And that kind of mentality, it's kind of gotten lesser as the weeks have gone on, but it's still a carryover from previous weeks where we've just put it in the stale. So Jordan Love not necessarily in the moldy, but some of his decisions going to put into the moldy.

Speaker: No, I agree. i agree what you're getting at because like there's that throw early to Watson over the middle where... um he Like, he puts it, and he's like, he it's not that he didn't see Barham. He definitely can see Barham is right there in his line of vision. And and Collinsworth kind of, like, goes, um why are you, yeah he's like, oh, that like I feel like that's a little more risky than you need it.

Speaker: it to be kind of thing um and like you say even the one where um it wouldn't have counted because we got called for the illegal man downfield but the ball he puts up to save you on at the go line where like if he um if you if he puts that ball a yard inside or down the field he's either getting savior on murdered or he's getting that ball intercepted kind of thing and You know, like, it is it is that farvness to love where it's like you don't want to tell him don't take chances kind of thing because I don't think love will ever be a check down Charlie. I just don't think it's in his DNA. But it's the whole do It's hard to be when you don't have anybody to check down to. Yeah, when that guy's dropping the passive. But hu but yeah, like there is that element where it's like... I agree with you where the Razor's edge, he was playing to it a little more than you'd think he would need to against this Cowboys difference. Because yeah, like you said...

Speaker: um There was... i know it's the Watson throw where he throws the slant where, like, he kind of, like, just jammed it into the window kind of thing and stuff. And then, you know, like I said, you had the one where, like, he throws that ball safe to Watson and stuff, but it is a little bit like, ooh, like, if Barham jumps, like, a second later kind of thing, that might be an interception because it gets tipped up and over into the safety and all that kind of stuff. But for the most part, he really did, like, manage himself really well during the game and

Speaker: Overall, like, it is one of those, like, um, you know... There are times, like with Rodgers, you know, with it's a lot more analogous to Favre because it's like, ah, like you're to have to live with some interceptions because you can't tell him to like not make those plays because then he's going to not throw you four more touchdowns kind of thing or something. Or with Rodgers, it's like, can you just go through your progressions and hit the next guy kind of thing when he's wide open and stuff? But then, you know, you don't get that bomb to Jordy down the sideline and stuff. And it it is super hard to like...

Speaker: thread the needle on that but i agree with you like it and like i said this is definitely one of those games where like it worked tonight so it's fine but it is one of those where you're kind of like hmm like ah a foot here you know like i said like um the interception to winters happens because that throw is off by a yard at minimum kind of thing and you know Who's to say like the one to um Watson in the end zone that drops if it gets tipped up worse like that's an interception you don't kick the field goal all that kind of stuff so like we said these are the things that we're happy to be able to nitpick in a win and stuff but like you said the bigger moldy one is like the bad throw on the interception and like it's just like I said with love was just an absolute total miss where it's like it's the wrong throw

Speaker: in a sense it's the wrong read that leads to the wrong throw because he like inst- and yeah like it's just completely misplaced but the bigger one is like when your quarterback couldn't hand you the ball better just catch it and like i said i joked about it on twitter i joked about in a couple group chats it's like golden with two drops nah golden with two pass breakups Yeah. like because he lived The second one is especially, i I understand what he's trying to do. He's trying to shift the ball around so that when he falls, it's like not in the elbow that's going to hit the ground. But in his efforts to to to prearrange himself to um hit the ground without dropping it, he literally punches the ball out of his own hand. And it's just like, ugh. It's like...

Speaker: it We're used to seeing him have one of those in a game, but he legitimately had, like, three of them. um He had the two touchdowns, and then he had the slant where, like... And Collinsworth's 100% right, like, put your thumbs out and catch that thing breadbasket style. it's it's at It's at your ankles, and, like, Jordan's got to put a better throw on him on that one, but... Yeah, it was awful low, but I mean, it was gettable, but it was low. So that's what I mean. Some, some of the decision making for Jordan was a little rough, but, and that's why I put it in the moldy this week, because it's something we've continuously had to talk about. It's slowly getting better, but had he, you know, had this game been a little bit different, it's something that would be strongly brought up with it. So yeah what what do you got next?

Speaker: Or do we want to go with one of ah True Norse here? ah The other moldy that has to be absolutely addressed is um he had some rough plays, but overall I was fine with Ryan. You know, like the the Clark sack is going to stand out, but can't he just turn the clock back on that one for his one play a game kind of thing?

Speaker: The moldy that has to stand out. The refereeing. The refereeing was atrocious in this. And like, if you... And I saw a couple people put it this way. If you ever had questions about NFL refereeing, this is the game that you're pointing to as your your keystone in your argument. Because you had the three roughing the passers, which... The first one was the worst one. The one on Lucas was absolutely horrid.

Speaker: Because... Like the only thing you can argue is, oh, he took an extra step, which he didn't. And like, he doesn't even shove Dak. He just runs into him with his hands totally out, which is not a foul. That Dak falls down is something that we'll discuss later.

Speaker: I'm pretty sure Zaire broke a rib of his early in the game. And that really, really changed the course of this game. But that was terrible. The one on Evan Williams, like, to me, that's... Well, I was going to say, I think that one's even worse because he's in midair. Right.

Speaker: Because that's brutal misinterpretation of the rule. Because I know there's some Bears fan out there who's like, by letter of the law, you can't contact the quarterback in the head. And it's like, then don't let quarterbacks pump fake ever. Like, that, him jumping is a direct result of quarterbacks pump faking the ball, pulling it down, and, you know, re-throwing kind of thing and stuff.

Speaker: And also, like...

Speaker: Don't let quarterbacks stand where they throw the ball. Like, make them have to backpedal away from where they throw. Because, like you said, there is nothing Williams can do there except fall and break his own arm. Like, have we coddled them to that point?

Speaker: And the last one is the Brooks one. It is the most... like legislatable as roughing the passer. You can argue its body weight.

Speaker: My thing on that one is twofold. You miss a hold on BB the center where he is clearly pulling the back of... Brooks' jersey with two hands, and it separates. There's separation between Brooks and him where you can see the jersey coming off the back of Brooks' shoulder pads. And then in what all linemen are taught to do is when you're beat-beat, you just shove the guy. And when he that's what pushes Brooks into into um to Prescott.

Speaker: to lead to the the body weight element of the rus roughing the passer. So, like, it's the most, quote-unquote, roughing the passer if you're going to, um you know, say it falls under the body weight and stuff. But...

Speaker: Jordan's had a flag like that picked up where they like, oh, his guy blocked him into him kind of thing, which again, what is one of the things we say all the time, Joe, is that these rules have too many addenda bylaws, clauses.

Speaker: i said it again on Twitter. You know, a few years ago it was, well, what was a, what's a catch now it's what's roughing the passer and because no matter what you do, you're hit, you're you're getting called roughing the passer.

Speaker: And I went so far as to say, like, I know that the league, like, it lasted a season, but where they made PI reviewable. Roughing the passer is the one that should be reviewable because it is the much more cut and dry because, like, I understood. And there are still those couple of times a game where it's like,

Speaker: damn yeah you should be able to review roughing the passer kind of thing and like and for all the people that it's slow i'm like it's it was no more slowing the game down than um abs challenges because coaches were so afraid to like challenge it because they were like are we really gonna get it overturned like you know you know what i mean or just start it with new york New York's already calling in these things. So why can't they be looking at that in advance and say, no, that's not really roughing the passer. So we're going to write we're going to cancel that one.

Speaker: And so, you know you feel for you know, you feel for all three Packers who got called for roughing the passer tonight. I absolutely hurt for Carrington Valentine, who honestly played a pretty good game. I thought he tackled the best in his whole Packers career tonight. Given who he was He had a couple of moments. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, but that interception, he read Dak like a book, and was compromised. And almost had it again. Yeah, and Dak was clearly compromised by that point of the game, but it was still a, you know, what did what was the big bugaboo for the Packers defense last year is they had, like, way easier opportunities to make interceptions last year, and they just couldn't hold on to the ball. So it's an absolute bummer for Valentine. I do like LeFleur saying, like, oh, yeah, Valentine picked it off in his postgame presser. Like, I... I appreciate that he, like like, coach recognized, like, nah, yeah. Well, see save all this discussion for the good, because that that'll probably go into the fresh stuff. So we're on the moldy.

Speaker: But, um, but... like Let's stick with the refs, though. Yeah. I bring all those up, and those weren't even necessarily the worst sequences in the game. Like... Yeah, and and like I saw people making the jokes about, like, you know, Jordan got lit up. And I still don't think Jordan's got to a roughing the passer call this season. and Not one in a point of a game where it matters, at least. um I like he got one. One.

Speaker: Yeah. But, like, so the two sequences that tell you everything. So, obviously, all the roughing the passer ones. But... the touch The last touchdown that Dallas gets in the game where Flournoy just pushes Bullard to the ground.

Speaker: and like It's a funny moment, though. That was pretty good. like And and like Bullard you know is like, I'm not touching him because I'm not getting called for illegal contact like Hopper did earlier in the game.

Speaker: But the the one that absolutely took the cake from the refs tonight was the interception that did, didn't, didn't happen. Where... and know we were just saying, like, New York should help.

Speaker: I need an explanation on what the fuck happened on that play where... um Bland clearly does not intercept the ball. Marisol makes this joke all the time where everyone, you know, when you're watching a college game and a college receiver or defender makes a catch and they get two feet down and they go, um They go, oh, that's an NFL catch kind of thing. Marisol always makes this joke about, she goes, you never hear them in the NFL go, oh, that's a college catch. Well, in that instance, that was a college catch for Blanty. And you know it was bad when even Cowboys writers and fans were like, what are you doing?

Speaker: like the the the fact that LaFleur had to, like... almost challenge it, which I know he's not allowed to because it's a turnover play and stuff like that. But like everyone was like, wait a minute. Is that the turnover review that turned it into a turn? Like like everyone was like good about to lose their minds for a second because it was like, wait, is that the um turnover? You know, is that the the replay assist? Is that um is that you so phoning it in and stuff? And yeah, like it was just this is what I think happened. This is what I think happened.

Speaker: The initial call was that it was an interception. They went through and got it from, this is what I'm thinking happened. But again, these are referees and I think they get worse CTE than players sometimes.

Speaker: Uh, The initial thought was it was an interception, but then they said wasn't an interception. And when the, the, when New York called in and said, you're right, it's not an interception.

Speaker: I don't know if it broke up mistranslated or whatever. Then that's when they said, yes, it was an interception. Then New York's like, Hey, no, we said not interception, not interception. And that that's, that's how it played out in my head.

Speaker: But like I said, sometimes I think these these referees have see ah more CTE than the players do. but But then you can add into that. There was a couple, like I called it out ah and me and Moffy kind of had a moment with that where there should have been a PI called on ah Porter, at least one called on Porter.

Speaker: With Golden in the end zone, he basically was holding his hand the whole route down. Mafi called it frolicking. I said it should have been a penalty for PDA. And, you know, it just... you I get that there's hand fighting, but when you're legit holding his hand like you're walking him to school, that's pass interference.

Speaker: You're impeding in his ability to make a play on the ball. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. So, I mean, it just, and again, I've said it before. I'll say it again.

Speaker: i don't care about, well, I do care about the penalties because they do need to be, uh, throw a getting, but yes, if you look at the penalties by each team, but they both had 11, they both had basically a hundred yards worth of penalties.

Speaker: When the stupid penalties are being called on both sides fairly, you know, equally, then I'm not going to complain about it too much, but it seemed like a lot of the penalties that Dallas was getting called for, they hadn' they couldn't get out of not calling them because they were blatantly obvious.

Speaker: The penalties that they were calling some of the Packers on was bullshit. Yeah. Because even Collinsworth said... The one quarter line Well, was going to even Collinsworth goes, this offensive line cannot handle these speed rushers.

Speaker: Right. And they're constantly having to hold them, and that was obvious. So, you know, that that's where it's like, it's so blatantly obvious you cannot not call those. Yeah, like the one like that Dallas fans could have a complaint about is the like the way they judiciated the ah adjudicated the the Joy Porter Jr. DPI on Golden where he like hip checked him out of bounds or Melton. He hip checked Melton out of bounds.

Speaker: And It's one of those where like I do think it should be DPI because he's not making any effort to play the ball. like I know that he's looking at the ball, but it's like he's not trying to stop yeah he's he's not trying to play the ball. He's trying to stop he's just physically stopping him from catching a pass.

Speaker: And also that was kind of karma because Bland totally got away with a blatant one to play before. so so I have to ask you this about that. Didn't they ah change up the rules a few years back that the only way that it stays that the player cannot make contact with the ball first after being out of bounds is if he purposely went out of bounds and did not make any effort to try to come in?

Speaker: No, I think the NFL, when you're out of bounds, you're out of bounds. I think, um, I don't, that's a college. That's definitively a college. Yeah. still have to read You still have to re-establish yourself, but in college, if you're pushed out, you can be the first one. You just have to have you have do you you have to have clearly um re-established yourself in bounds. And when I say clearly, it's like one step. so It's like not that much work. Well, and I thought...

Speaker: the pros did something like that because they were having things like Joey Porter Jr. that were just purposely driving the wide receivers into the, the yeah boundary. So I, I don't know. It's one of those, it's one of those, it is one of those where I can't believe they called it. But like I said, I do think New York might've got it in their ear. Like you,

Speaker: you guys blew it horribly on the play before kind of thing. Because like I said, they took some liberties that I'm not used to them taking. But I liken that to when they take a definitive stance on, yeah, you had no intent on completing that pass, so we're calling you for intentional grounding kind of thing. So I'm like, I can't believe they did it. But like i said, I do think there was a little bit of New York being like, you guys fucked up the play before so bad and everyone just saw it on national television. But so...

Speaker: Yeah, um we're not going to burn our whole hour, hour and a half on the refs, but they do, do like you said, it is it was a gong show of gong shows um in there. like it has to be um It has to be addressed.

Speaker: I have one more. Do you have any more? I have one more too, but it's going to be more like a personal bitch than it. Well, no, technically I have two more. I have two more. Go with your other one, because I think we're on the same page with your what you're thinking is a personal complaint one.

Speaker: Okay. So, like I did last week with one of them, ah

Speaker: a True north here. I believe that before tonight, there were only three taunting calls this year. And that's possible. We didn't even get on that with the refs. The whole taunting shit was bullshit. Matthew Golden, yeah, he was flexing. And you could technically say he was doing it towards the player, but the player was also like eight yards away from him. So whatever.

Speaker: But the one that I'm going to throw out here, doesn't even involve the Packer game. It involves the Packers in a way, but it doesn't involve the Packers game.

Speaker: Chicago bears fans just proved that they are some of the worst people ever. And I'm not saying that all of them are, but all the ones that were in Atlanta today.

Speaker: are some of the worst ones you ever wanted know. And for those that don't know, there was an injury and I think they had to bring the card out for the injury. yeah And I didn't watch it. I just saw the clips afterwards.

Speaker: They brought a card out for the injury and the whole time the Bears fans were chanting Green Bay sucks or fuck Green Bay or whatever their motto is this week. That's classless.

Speaker: You've got a guy injured on the field and then you're going to go to chance. and I get that you weren't chanting anything against the Falcons, but you're still chanting something that shouldn't be done during a time where we have no idea what's going on with the player.

Speaker: And in the actual Bears defense, they looked pretty pissed off. Like, they were trying to fan it down and stuff. Bears media was all over it and was like, what are you doing? Like, there there were a lot of people who were embarrassed for the Bears kind of thing. And, like, from Chicago and stuff. Like...

Speaker: and and And, like you said, it just goes to show how, like, you know, you can use all these different adages, but it's like, you haven't even really had success because, okay, you beat the Packers in the playoffs, you still lost the next round, you didn't actually make the conference finals game, you didn't you you didn't win the Super Bowl, and you're, like, trying to stunt and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker: And it's like, like you said, have a modicum of respect and, like, humanity. like I honestly don't care that they were chat like, I'm not going to be one of those people like who's gonna be like, oh, like they're chanting it here and there. But it's like you shouldn't be saying or doing anything like for all the people who get so pissed off about standing for the anthem moment of silence when this or that is recognized like that guy's livelihood career might be done.

Speaker: Like for all we know, because we have no idea what was going on. Yeah, like he, so what happened on the play was um Daniel's the linebacker, he knifes through the double block to break up the, try to stop the screenplay.

Speaker: And what he does, his head hits the receiver's knee something that, he just crumples immediately. And it was, there was no shadow of a doubt. Right, we have no idea what's going on with the player himself. Yeah.

Speaker: Like you said, the fact that you're doing that in an injury and then as the cart is coming out, was just levels of terrible that like, I don't like giving them any sort of spotlight, but at the same time, it's like, how stupid, like it is just a, how stupid are you? Like how are you? If you want to chant it before the game, if you want to chant it at halftime, if you want to chant it after the game, more power to you, that's life. But to do it during that moment,

Speaker: that That's terrible. What if yeah Packer fans would have been doing that the whole time you were old Caleb, tweak a hammy like I got shot, ah you know, was writhing in pain and the cart was brought out for him.

Speaker: You guys would be all over Packer fans for that. or Vikings fans or Lions fans, but mainly Packer fans. You'd be all over the oppos the the other guys for that.

Speaker: So, yeah. We're not there yet, True, but we are getting there. yeah We're getting there, True. Just to go through a couple of these that True did throw out here, because they were pretty good before Mike throws in ours. He put the Sean Ryan was 100% moldy.

Speaker: I do kind of agree on that. This was probably his worst game this year. but it wasn't completely terrible. I think it was kind of Glover's worst game so far, too.

Speaker: ah Running backs are stinky. I think that's what Mike is going to be bringing up here in a second. That's going to tail into his... Yeah. After that game, I have zero idea what roughing the passer is. We just covered that.

Speaker: Uh, too many missed tackles looking at you Cox. If you're looking at Cox, I, you know, I, that's more power to you there too. Um, but yeah. And it kind of goes into what I've said about denied, uh, Dennis Sutton the last couple of weeks, he's been getting solid pressure.

Speaker: But he's having he's struggling finishing after getting the pressure. ah That one, i think he like I think he kind of saw a ghost. Because he had the one where he came up the A-gap on the stud. And then I think he was somewhere in between, like, don't face mask him on accident. Don't get a roughing the passer kind of thing. And he kind of just shook himself off of that play. The Cox one, it's like, that's bad technique. I understand he's going high because he's trying to get the ball.

Speaker: You're coming from... his side like You have to hit him in the mid... When you're coming from the quarterback's throwing side or up the middle, your aiming point needs to be at the middle of his torso because your your ability to rip the ball free, that's a blindside hit thing. like That's either a blindside hit or you just have to knock him into the next Sunday kind of hit. But if you're coming frontside, you should be aiming...

Speaker: Middle torso. Like, that's that's your aiming point. And already, when Cox was, like, a step away, i was like, oh, no, Dak's gonna shake him kind of thing. and like, I thought, oh, like, he almost grabbed the underside of the front of his pads when he went over the top of Dak when Dak spun, but obviously his hand, he couldn't grip it. And it's like...

Speaker: That's a coaching film one where it's like you got to aim lower and stuff, and your hitting point is way too high on that one. And I thought Carl Brooks did a little bit of that too. There was a couple of times that he could have had the big play, and it just he kind of like got rolled off of the... ah One, he missed the sack completely and got like a foot.

Speaker: The other one was ah kind of the same deal on a run play where... He had he could have had this. Yeah. Yeah, he had the TFL and he missed it by a mile, but luckily he he grabbed just enough that the other guys came in and it was still a small game. But yeah, so those are that. Mike, you want to go ahead with your next one so we can go ahead and move on?

Speaker: Yeah, so like truenoed True North pointed out, the running backs were just bad this game. And so that part is stale because it's just old and stuff.

Speaker: The part where it gets into moldy is... LeFleur. I get it. You're trying to teach lessons and all this kind of shit. We all watched. um And Strong did a lot of nice things in the past. You know, I'll talk about it in the Fresh and stuff. There was a lot of good he did in the past game.

Speaker: He and Lloyd missed so many run gaps in this game. It was painful. Like, Strong at least was gaining a couple yards, but he had ones where, like, he went the wrong way. Like, he went up the wrong A-gap where they had it walled off and, you know, they they had an opening.

Speaker: And, like, I just don't... The way I pointed it out in terms of how he's handling this doghouse thing is it's very akin to Eddie Lacy and Starks, how McCarthy was handling Lacy's fumbling issue in 2015, where just because Lacy's were getting recovered by the defense, it was like, oh, like, that's that's um that's unforgivable. He needs to learn, blah, blah, blah, that kind of stuff. Meanwhile, Starks is fumbling every other play, but they happen to go out of bounds kind of thing.

Speaker: and is The same thing is happening to Caleb where um he has the same number of fumbles as Marshawn Lloyd. Yes, you absolutely cannot fumble on the one-yard line going in for a touchdown.

Speaker: But Lloyd has a fumble where he would have set the Jets up on the doorstep if... I think it was Jennings had it happened to be Johnny on the spot ready to... You know, because he got because Jennings was the one who blew the blocking assignment. He was standing there and ready to recover the football. I know i know that Caleb has one of those too. But like said...

Speaker: but like i said I don't like the misplaced... the the The uneven um consequences for fumbling the ball.

Speaker: Especially when... Lloyd isn't really giving you anything. You know, he didn't have a catch of importance in this game. And Strong had a couple, but he wasn't doing crap as a runner. And then, like, okay, you're benching Caleb to the fourth quarter, and you give him one run where the O-line completely fucks up the blocking scheme, and it's not his fault he gets tackled for a loss? Like...

Speaker: And yeah that was it. Josh, and I get it. Yeah, I get it. Josh might be back next week and bla la blah, bla blah, blah, blah. They're not cutting Caleb. You traded something. If anyone is getting released, it's going to be Pierre because he has the least investment in him.

Speaker: um With the way they're going, I have no doubt. I would not be surprised if they they cut Caleb Johnson right now. I think Goode will be like, what the fuck are you doing? like I do think that is one where... I do think that... Because at the end of the day, it is Goode's call to cut someone kind of thing. And also, they're at 50 players, so they don't have to cut anyone to put Jacobs back on the roster right now. No, I get that, but I just... yeah the The way they're going with him is completely asinine.

Speaker: And i I get it. you're Like you said, you're trying to you know make a statement and all this shit, but... I was having an ah a conversation on Twitter with a friend of mine, Cam, the ah about it. Well, Pierre Strong better is better. No, Pierre Strong is better at the outside run or maybe in the pass game.

Speaker: But who's the guy that you want to give the ball to in a up the gut type of run? Do you want it to give it to your what? Five foot eight, 200 pounds or five foot 11, 200 pound guy, or your six foot one, 224 pound guy.

Speaker: i think I would want to give it to my, my six foot one, 224 pound guy more than i would, uh, you know, the other one.

Speaker: and

Speaker: here's Here's the rushing stats for this game. Pierre Strong had 11 carries for 28 yards, 2.5 for an average with a long of six. Marshawn Lloyd had eight carries, 10 yards, average 1.3 with a long of four.

Speaker: Jordan Love had four carries for 12 yards, average three, and he had the longest run by any of them today at 13 yards. And that was a planned run. And that just, it it does not make sense why. And like one of the things that I said, each time that they've put Caleb in there for their first run, except for today, because like Mike said, they blew the coverage on that.

Speaker: he's He's broken 20 plus yard runs. So why are you having him sit for so long? I mean, this we're getting to the point where, well, why did you even bother trading for him?

Speaker: You probably could have got him for free after that fact because, ah ah you know, Pittsburgh probably would have got rid of him at the 53 cut down.

Speaker: Why did you even spend anything on him if you're not going to use him and use him properly? It's just frustrating. And, like, I do think... i I hope that he gets another shot this season with the Packers because, like you said, he's got the explosive runs in this. ah Ironically, it's him and Chris Brooks who rumors are he may not be back for a while kind of thing and stuff. But, like, it's just frustrating because it would be one thing if they were – if Strong and Lloyd were giving you anything useful in the run game.

Speaker: But they're not. They're both a complete negative. And there was another play where – The Packers actually, they blocked it up pretty good. There was a hole off the left um the left C gap, I think it was.

Speaker: Strong sees it, but like he sees it late, and it's he's slow to get there. And it gets he just he gets swallowed up for it a two-yard gain kind of thing. I'm not saying Johnson said runs for a touchdown or anything through that, but it is one of those where like...

Speaker: Like I said, there was a couple other plays where I'm like, the hole's in the right B gap and he goes up the left B gap. And then Lloyd is just trying to bounce and like... yeah who would He's an east-west runner more than a north-south runner, and that's ridiculous.

Speaker: I think it was Felipe who said, like, you you cannot you cannot be bouncing designed gap runs. Like, you're sending two pullers through a hole. You you do not bounce those unless unless Jesus himself has come and told you to cut this way kind of thing. Like, you you just cannot...

Speaker: you cannot abort and go um you cannot go off script on planned gap runs like that just that's just inexcusable but hey he was still back out there even after he got injured like so like that's that's the part that joe and i are frustrated at it's like it would be one thing if either guy was doing great as a runner and it's like oh like yeah we wouldn't be complaining but the fact that you're You know, and we're not saying that Caleb's going to be the cure-all because he hasn't been yet.

Speaker: But at the same time, it's like, why are you choosing to handcuff yourself to a fire, a car that's on fire just to prove a point? Because at the end of the day, your job is to win games. And I'm never going to say i wish the Packers lost so that they would be forced to, that that would be stupid.

Speaker: But there's that little, it's like what we said at the end of the Atlanta game where... I hate it for Jordan's stats, but I'm kind of like, I'm kind of glad he threw the pick at the end of the Atlanta game because then the floor can't go and be like, oh, we got into rhythm. We as i we were like, no, Jordan should have been shouldn't have been in that game at that point where you can't protect him and he's getting lit up like a Christmas tree every other day. This is sort of in that same bin and where it's like,

Speaker: He's getting rewarded with wins with kind of bad process on his part, where it's like you're being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, where it's like, like I said, if Lloyd had even made a ha headway in the passing game today, it would have been like, okay, at least you got that. But like, he didn't do jack for you on either side of the game.

Speaker: Strong made a few nice plays, but otherwise it was like, it was mainly after the catch. Yeah, it was painful. what And that's the thing is, it's like, I don't mind if you use Strong in space or even Lloyd in space, but trying to turn either of these guys into down-to-down runners is just, it's just painful. And like I said, our whole thing with Caleb is...

Speaker: Maybe he only averages like 3.8 yards of rush, especially behind this O-line. But he was your he was always going to be your best bet to get poor man's version of jake what Jacobs is going to give you as a runner. Because at the end of the day, even if he goes the wrong way, at least he's going to be 224 and get behind his pads and play like it kind of thing. And...

Speaker: Hey, if we're going to be critical on the guys trying to catch the ball, we're going be critical on the coach who's making things more difficult than they need to be. So, but like you said, I don't want to, I don't want to stick on the, um, the negatives for too long.

Speaker: Um, we can move on to stale. I really only have one there. Honestly. Do you actually have a stale? I don't even think I have a stale at the moment, but I'll hit the button for you. What's this stale shit?

Speaker: it's time to pay kevin or It's time to play Kevin Zeitler. like I understand that like you you've gotten decent work out of um Glover. You may have a starter for next year in him.

Speaker: but That's still like, oh, like there's potential upside, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. And you've heard a couple of the beat writers talk about it on different pods. and so like Huber kind of brought it up more as a question, as like, a oh, do they let it ride out kind of thing. Silverstein has gone more on the like, hey, he's younger.

Speaker: There's more upside. But you know I liken it to the whole um Bill Parcells, your potential is going to get me fired speech, where... I'm sorry, like Glover, it's been, it's he's he's absolutely helped settle this old line down. You cannot discount that at all.

Speaker: But if Kevin Zeitler says that he is ready to go, one, you're paying him. And two, Kevin Zeitler was like the best guard, like a top five guard in the NFL last year.

Speaker: like We're not talking about two years ago, three, four, five years ago. We're talking about last year. Glover is not a top five guard in the NFL. And hey maybe this is the clip maybe we've hit the cliff or whatever kind of thing.

Speaker: But like you need to find out now. Because you cannot wait till Glover totally royally screws up again. And like we said, he's been mostly good, but he's had some brain fart plays here and there the last couple weeks. and Today, the the offensive line was a little bit rough. They did give up eight quarterback hits and three sacks. Against the unit that can't really rust the passer. That was a concern. like and you know I dovetail that into the... but We hear all the time that continuity is key and blah, blah, blah. i get that you're like bridging the gap between the two, but to me...

Speaker: Your highest ceiling is what Zeitler can give you now. Because you you have you have to be thinking, okay, we're paying Zeitler, this might be his last good year, so you need to maximize what you're going to get out of his last good year. That means get him playing, get him used to playing. I know that he's a pro's pro, I don't think he's going to get stage fright, oring but he's never played with anyone on this O-line. You know, it's not like he's just randomly happened to play with, like, he can't because Belton's a second-year player.

Speaker: Ryan is, um you know, he's in his fifth year or whatever. So it's like he can't he can't possibly have played with anyone on this O-line. Except for maybe Lakin. Yeah, right.

Speaker: And I don't think they overlapped in Detroit. And it doesn't matter because he's not the guy next to him. So it's like, your i like I said, it's great that maybe Glover can hack it in the league and maybe you have a starter. And, you know, I get it. Like he's in the second to the last year of his rookie deal and blah. But I'm like, you've invested in Zeitler. He's had three weeks.

Speaker: Get him out there. Get him used to playing in this system. And um like I said... He's overall been pretty, like... I know the bar is really low, but he's really been a stabilizing factor.

Speaker: But, like, he has gotten Jordan lit up a couple times the past few weeks. And it's like... Like I said, Jordan is pretty good at protecting himself, but you just don't know when that next one is the one that, like, the one that we're gonna get into in a bit with Dak, where it totally changed the complexion of this game.

Speaker: Like... It... it Like... I just think that you're playing with fire for not nearly as much upside as they think they're... Because I know the discussion is, oh man, we might have a future starter. Like, let's build his confidence and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I'm like, that's all fine and dandy, but...

Speaker: Like, just trust the vet. Like, I don't have any other way to... Like to like I said, it it's just stale for me today because it worked out, but there's a part of me that's like, I feel like you're just wasting time.

Speaker: you're You're just wasting time to get this O-line really going. And who knows? Maybe, maybe this run game, even with Strong and Lloyd, looks that much better if Zeitler's in at right guard instead of instead of Glover. So... I just feel like you're playing dumb games from minimal upside for this season. Because this, Zeitler and Tomlinson, this is a purely 2026 focused thing.

Speaker: Maybe Tomlinson next year, depending on how the year ends. Right. And I get it. Like, with Tomlinson's side, it's an easier decision because, like, Banks is totally, like, you can't trust him for anything.

Speaker: And, like, you know, this is how coaches think they're like, oh, we might have found something at right guard. But it's like, you Clearly paid Zeitler to be your starting right guard when he's ready. And the rumors from a lot of the beat reporters is even last week he went to LaFleur and was like, I am ready to go.

Speaker: And it is time. like and i The thing that I was irritated with is I don't like that his first start with this group of O-linemen is going to be in Detroit. I trust him way more than I trust um you know the...

Speaker: fucking Jennings decision to just start him out of nowhere at left guard in week one. But there are still some complicating factors there where it's like, he hasn't played with anyone on this O-line.

Speaker: the The calls are, you know, like at the end of the day, O-line calls are, we're blocking left, we're blocking right. But how guys how different guys communicate, how different guys, how Jordan calls it, it's all different. And then the whole Jordan doing his hard count you cannot simulate that in practice because the pressure of the game, the pressure of the moment.

Speaker: And when when that, when the way that Jordan, who learned from Aaron, who learned from Brett, the way they elevate their voice when they're trying to draw the defense offside, you cannot simulate that in practice and you just have to get live reps. So it's stale because like I said, it it falls into the, it worked and it's,

Speaker: Jordan's fine and all that kind of stuff. And yes, there is this unit's continuity. But to me, like you're just wasting time not getting Zeitler in the game at this point. I think that like, don't, don't, don't waste any more reps at this point.

Speaker: And it also was a weird decision this week that they even sat ah Jagger out as an inactive. So that that was kind of an interesting choice with that too. And it could have burnt them this week too. like like yeah ryan cant And that's the thing too. I give Ryan a little bit of grace because he did come up a little lame after that you know what they thought might have been the pick six. so Although I would trust Jacob Monk as a center than I do as guard.

Speaker: So, uh, but we're, we're pushing time here. So, and and we've kind of stayed in the bad for a while, but do want to touch on this stale, uh, true north says stale cheese, the special teams, except smack.

Speaker: I'm wondering if he's meaning more that one punt return. Because I didn't think the special teams was overly shitty today. It could have gone a little bit wacky with that onside kick from Aubrey.

Speaker: Because they did deem that Tucker touched it. And that could have been a little bit of a Especially ah if if the Cowboys players could have got down there or whatever, that would have made things a little bit more interesting when they're in. But other than that, I didn't think special teams had too much. So true north, you'll have to so put in there what you're kind of meaning on the special teams, but I'm goingnna hit the button. Let's go ahead and jump into our, our fresh. Mm. Fresh cheese.

Speaker: Are they at least playing for you? They're not playing for me on my They're for me. Okay. I'm hearing it. Okay. But Ganonhire... Ganonhire. Yeah. Thumbs up to this point. Like...

Speaker: It was, and like I said, I liked Halfley a lot. I thought, and I think why, i don't want to say I soured on Halfley, but part of what got a little old with Halfley last year was I didn't like how it was like, oh, I got Micah Parsons, so I don't have to do anything cool anymore. And I know that's like not fair, but on the super like layman's terms, he really did just kind of bank everything on Micah fucking up the other team's pass protection scheme.

Speaker: And I really do think that Gann is going to keep it weird when Parsons comes back. is And what's what's one thing that you and I talked about last year where it's like, you just can't let the other team bleed you pale a whole game.

Speaker: And like, I know that it's like, oh, but if they play, if they have to to do two more plays, they're going to screw up at some point, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. But also if they don't screw up, you're still giving up a touchdown and your defense is totally gassed at the end of it. And you saw that. And like, those are all those advanced stats it's like, they're holding teams to like two points per drive in the first quarter. And they're like allowing like a 42 passer rating and 2.6 rush yard, you know, yards per carry and stuff. And then it, like, it just all went off a cliff as the quarters went along to where in the fourth quarter it was like, no one's playing defense anymore because everyone's tired kind of thing and stuff. And... Ganon's getting the best of both worlds where...

Speaker: He's pressuring the absolute shit out of almost everyone. And he's getting um positive plays for the defense, whether it's turnovers, um just sacks or like complete throwaways because he's completely baffled the other quarterback.

Speaker: um And they're not only are they blitzing, but they're blitzing with a purpose. And like I said... um Honestly, there was a bit of put the dog out of its misery tonight with with Dak where I was like, one can the Packers just score another touchdown? Because if they at any point had scored a touchdown when they were up 20-7 or 23-7, I think the Cowboys pulled Dak because I think Zaire... I'll be shocked if Zaire did not bruise, break, or fracture one of Dak's ribs tonight because you look at... Dak's never had the like greatest arm in the world or anything like that, but...

Speaker: for the middle third to the, like, final drive, he could not put the ball on a line past eight yards down the field. Like, he was clearly compromised after that hit by um by by Zaire on, um you know, after the the the Love interception. And I think it clearly affected him when he... um It doesn't matter.

Speaker: i think he like thought i'll just kind of lay this one up there like no one's there and stuff instead of driving the ball into um i can't even remember who's trying to throw it to at that point but like it's just it doesn't matter Yeah, it's just one of those where Gannon has set the tone that, like, we're going to be an attacking defense. We're still going to be disciplined and try to, like, you know, we're not we're not going, you know, this isn't freaking the 2004 defense where it's like we're going to blitz eight people and if we give up a touchdown, oh, well, kind of thing. There's still good coverage on the back end, as True know North pointed out. The secondary played a whale of a game tonight. Like, it was excellent. Yeah.

Speaker: But you gotta to just love the um aggression that Ganon is working with. And like even just how he's getting pressure, where it's like, it's student body right overload pressure, it's and then it's overload pressure from the left.

Speaker: And then, oh, just kidding, it's from the left again, kind of thing and stuff. And... um i'm happy I'm so happy for Lucas to get another sack, to get one that sticks on his ledger tonight, because it's been a rough couple weeks where it's like he's still messing up pass protections, but he's been a step away. And like last week, he basically got Cissé his sack, um you know, against Atlanta. And he could have had a couple more tonight, too. Yeah, rough well that's the thing, the play right after his one sack, he got held from behind and didn't get a flag drawn for it kind of thing. So he's he is, have don't listen to anyone saying he's having a bad year. He is absolutely leveled up his game and is having a stellar season so far.

Speaker: um And like you said, like the young guys are stepping up, you know, Sorrell almost had a nice sack at one point. Um, uh, to that point he had, let's see, where was I just saw it. He had two QB hits tonight credited for, uh, according to ESPN.

Speaker: So it, it um Lucas having what the what the team's one sack in the night is sort of one of those stats that lies because Dak couldn't throw, but he was still boogying back there and getting out of like some bad situations and stuff. Like I said, you got to recalibrate the targeting system on a couple of the guys, but you cannot say anything but good things about Ganon. Like I said, I don't think it's going to change, but literally the only complaint I'll have on Ganon is um if he just totally changes how he he calls the game.

Speaker: games when Parsons comes back. And like I said, I don't think you can because Parsons just isn't going to be Parsons when he, like the best case and the closest he'll be to being that Micah Parsons is if the Packers make the Super Bowl.

Speaker: Like that's legitimately it. So I don't know. I get it. the The longer out of ice. The longer that he stays out, maybe the more he will be when he comes back because he's going to be. me but but he's The only thing he won't have is the rest knocked off. Otherwise, he'll probably be in the best shape of his life. He'll be refreshed. He'll be all this other stuff. So, yeah, who knows with Micah?

Speaker: But that's my first one. What you got? um i i'm trying to choose which one i want because i mean there's really a couple other low hanging fruit what i'm just going to go with it because i've been i've been on it for a while brandon c say he did go out late in the game with with a uh they said an arm injury i i'm not sure i think it was a wrist thing it was a a was it yep I was wondering if it was a wrist thing because he kept like flipping his wrist back and forth. So I was wondering if maybe it was a wrist thing, but no if it was a stinger.

Speaker: Because they were trying to they were trying to shake it to see if he had feelings. So yeah. um well this was when he was coming off the field anyway he he just kept flipping the wrist back and forth so that that's what made me think maybe it was resting but anyway all that back around he had a hell of a game this was probably his best game as a as a pro so far and it's still building four total tackles they credited him with two pass defenses so i won the up over under on that one um

Speaker: Got his first career interception. I won that one too. give credit for reverse jinxing it. Joe Stradamus struck again with that one. oh You know, he really did a solid job. There was a couple of times that, yeah, you could see he's still a rookie. But other than that, he did a solid job taking a making ah plays on CeeDee Lamb and and keeping CeeDee out of it. I don't even know what CeeDee ended up with.

Speaker: ah He ended up a very inefficient night. It was... 70 yards. He got 70 yards. It took him nine catches. So yeah, like, just, you know, and he got his on the fourth down conversion and all that kind of stuff. But on the play he needed to make, and I know that CD fell down, but how many times have we seen, you know, not just Packers DBs, but how many times did that go off the DBs chest kind of thing? He made the play that had to be And he almost had a second one.

Speaker: Yeah. almost had a second one. So, um... like Just a really good yeah You hope the stinger doesn't limit and you hope... like More so in the... Because if if you haven't had a stinger, what it... It's one of the most painful things you can deal with because you're... like Everyone's like, oh, you just go numb. And I'm like, you don't feel numb. Like, your arm is useless, but that...

Speaker: dont Well, first off, it's not to it's not the Celtic hammer. It's the Celtic cannon. We're alliteration here, so get it right, True North. But I like Jostradamus. It kind of rolls in there. you know It's it's an Nostradamus, but it's... Shut up, True.

Speaker: ah Mute. But hum I agree with you. late I just hope that... I hope that you don't see the his style of play affected by the Stinger because it it is one of those that can kind of get in your head a little bit, but Well, if it is a stinger and that's what they said it was, it kind of scares me a little bit because technically this would be a second one.

Speaker: Because he had that other one earlier in the season where they said it was And I don't know which arm it was. Yeah, and I don't know which arm it was. So, yeah, it's one of those where you're kind of like... And the way he tackles too is he literally and figuratively sticks his head in there kind of thing and stuff. So... He has good form tackling, and that's what's nice. I even said it that on Twitter that it's refreshing to see a corner actually tackle properly.

Speaker: It's the times when he tries to tackle out of his range where he's like diving that it's like, oh, look. yeah He he'd miscalculated. The targeting computer was off. But, um yeah. like He tried to use the force, and the force wasn't with him.

Speaker: Ha ha ha! um stay on that point Bullard had a heck of a game tonight I do that's what I was trying to flip in back and forth on because like I've been a Bullard guy and I've been a Cissé guy which one do I want to take real quick Yeah, but no, like you can have both of them because yeah, like they both deserve their credit. And like Collinsworth kind of alluded to, like he's not the best, like pure cover guy and stuff, but this season he has constantly put himself in position to make plays.

Speaker: Need that first career interception. He's going to get it at some point. that It's almost happened so many times. I wanted it so bad on that fourth down breakup, but I do appreciate him like just making sure he batted it down, like straight down to make sure nothing dumb could happen on that play.

Speaker: But, um, then we almost had his turf angels cause he was down there from, he so I love that guy. i do. He's such a good guy.

Speaker: Um, Smack... Gotta give Smack his flowers for turning it around this week um after having the rough game. um That's what you want to see out of it. Obviously, obviously you'd love him to miss nothing. um But I kind of alluded to it before the PATs where I'm like... And I was watching him this game.

Speaker: Because the reason he missed the PAT last week is... um the bear when And it's kind of been a trend for him where... ah When teams overload his his kicking leg side, he starts to like...

Speaker: compensate for it. And on the one he missed against the Bears, they loaded they overloaded his right, and he pulled the kick left. And if you watch his PATs tonight, he did pull the one, he pulled the first one left towards the left goal. Not tight, but it was it was shifting left on him.

Speaker: And then the rest of his kicks, he kicked it straight down the middle. So even more, the game within the game, I really liked what we saw from him. But, and even Colin, or Tariko kind of mentioned it on his longer field goal to put them up 23 to seven. he Tariko kind of was like, this is the area where he missed it last week kind of thing. Granted, it was on the other side of the field because it was it was the other side of the field that was the bad side of the field where the wind was really hack was messing them up and stuff. But, yeah.

Speaker: But did you know, did did you know he was the only kicker drafted in 2026? I wasn't sure, but thank you to Rico for confirming that. Your turn. What you got?

Speaker: Um... do you know we kind of lambasted them a little bit in in the moldy but i overall i'm gonna give flowers to the fresh cheese to matthew golden because this is this this was still a hundred yard game got the touchdown got his first actual lambo leap it's not a technicality because it wasn't a two-point conversion it was a legit touchdown so he did that ah Long at 37, was making plays, was doing everything else. You want to see the drops come down. I kind of mentioned it on Twitter that ah he this is kind of reminiscent of early Devontae, early James Jones, where they struggle with the simpler catches, but the acrobatic catches they were like they're like perfect on.

Speaker: And, and that's kind of the same way with what Matthew golden was going through tonight, where the one that he, that was dropped like right, or both of them were technically dropped right ah onto him.

Speaker: But the one specifically in the end zone that should have been a touchdown, you know, that was perfectly placed. That was perfectly, he just, for some reason, is you know, was more worried about placement of feet was more worried about something else. I don't know. and let the ball go through and That but overall he's really turning into that guy again. You know, I hate to say, I hate to keep patting myself on the back, but I've been in on the guy since day one.

Speaker: ah and, and I really like it. You can throw Christian Watson in there too, you know, outside of the drops and the miscues and all that, you know, it's still solid the game at 64 yards. Didn't get his touchdown this week, but you know,

Speaker: they's They still average. Matthew Golden averaged 17.3 yards tonight. Christian Watson averaged 21.3 yards. So, I mean, they're still getting good chunk yardage out of things. And, you know, that's really nice to have.

Speaker: I know... ah LeFleur, I have nothing bad to say about LeFleur tonight. I don't know about that. There's some things that I could say about Matt LeFleur that aren't too gracious at the moment, but that's not... We had our talk that already. Yeah, we had our moment on that one. But Matthew Golden, I got to give it to him.

Speaker: If there's another little bit of a low-hanging fruit one, if you want to take it, if not, that'll be my next one. Go for it. Go for it. Savion. Savion being his first game back, activated the day before, it comes in and and is just immediately thrown to the wolves. and And, you know, I know it doesn't look like he did a lot.

Speaker: Talk about at the hole on their first drive. Yeah. Right. but ah But I mean, if you look at the stat lines, four catches on four targets for 32 yards along a 15, he averaged eight. It doesn't look like a lot, but beings that we have not seen Savion since last year, pretty much.

Speaker: You know, it it was, yeah, pretty much last since last year, cause he got hurt in training camp and went on IR at the beginning of the season. So, you know, first reps, they were using him as the gadget type, but they were still giving him routes too.

Speaker: He's, he's not. He's not as technical with his routes at the moment because he, you know, and he didn't have that in college. So they're still working on him somewhat in the pros, but you know, and you know, the guardian cap looks good. i always say this, these new guardian caps look a lot better than the old ones because the old ones looked like a loaded diaper on top of the guy's head.

Speaker: And so, you know, it is what it is, but you know, those three guys, if if that's what you're going to build your wide receiver room around, He can't ask for much more than that.

Speaker: Yeah. um I saw a lot of jokes that it's like LaFleur is forcing him the ball because he's had all these plays that he couldn't wait to call and stuff like that. I am surprised we didn't see him just get a true running back carry kind of thing. And they they sort of set it up where they he was in like the quote-unquote the pro set where... he was next to um to to Love and they like kind of ran him on a swing or a wheel route kind of thing and stuff. But I was kind of surprised he didn't get one of those whirlybird carries or something like that. But I'm sure that's just in the back pocket, for especially when... They probably didn't want to throw too much at... Yeah. Right. And they probably didn't want to push it too much until...

Speaker: you know with this being his first actual game they wanted to bring him along slowly but like that second catch he had to um bail him out of the third and stupid on the first drive that was a really nice route he ran and like he he got up there shook the corner and separated without you know contact and all that kind of stuff that was a nice play that he made um to to get them out of the shadow their own goal post on the opening drive so I agree with you, like, just a really good first day at the office, back at the office for Savion.

Speaker: um You know, like i said, we kind of touched on it on a little, but for Jordan, it was still a good day at the office, but it was it it really should have been a pretty stellar day at the office. um You know, he ends up 23 41. Um...

Speaker: um 23 for 41, 276 yards, 6'7", average, 1-1. Should have been four and one um Or, yeah, foreign and one no rushing touchdown, but he ends up 1-1 with a rushing touchdown.

Speaker: It's just unfortunate because he really had a much better game. um yeah And, you know, like, in between there, he had the one where, like, threw it into the perfect spot for Watson, and Watson, i don't know if he, like, never saw the ball or gave up on the route kind of thing, but, like, the ball just kind of falls, like, three yards in front of Watson, and it's like, he's not even looking back at Jordan kind of thing.

Speaker: And so you had some of those. I agree with you, like, it wasn't the cleanest game he's played because he did take a few more chances than you kind of expect him to, but I do think that's a matter of him feeling pretty good about where the offense is at. You know, one of those kind of things. So, um...

Speaker: Overall, just really pleased with where he is. You know, we we challenged him. that he watches our show can't even hear us or anything like that. But we did say, like, hey, like...

Speaker: you're getting paid the big bucks to to get, you know, you've got to be above whatever is happening. Like, the live rounds are going back and forth. I understand that, but you've got to be better than that. Like, it's unfair, but that's what you're getting paid $55 million a year to do is to, like, not be affected by all this crap around you kind of thing and stuff. And um they've given him...

Speaker: they've given him a little bit of pass protection and he's playing so much. Like he's playing like the MVP caliber quarterback that he is. So Jordan get deserves to get a lot of love for his, um, his showing tonight.

Speaker: Yeah. And, um, You know, you got to give the tip of the cap to LeFleur on some of it, because he has been getting in the bag on on his plays. Because we got another flea flicker, tight screen, whatchamacallit, whatever you want to say it is, type play. It it had a little bit of success, not a ton, but it, you know, it is what it is. So you got to give it to him a little bit on on that. And Jordan was able to make something out of it.

Speaker: But one of these days we're going to do that flea flicker and it's going to be one of them deep passes and we're going to some fireworks on that one. But... I don't know. Is there any more that you really, I mean, we could sit here and talk all night about, I mean, I'm up for it. We could talk for another three hours, but I know you got kids.

Speaker: Uh, what do we got? True north. I respect Jerry Jones showing up knowing that it would be another nightmare. case Well, I think he had to be on his best behavior. Cause he knew he was going to have to pay for it. If he broke something them in the, in the box tonight, because they were at Lambo, they weren't at Jerry world. So, uh,

Speaker: don't know. Is there anything else that you can think of to cover? i like Just to just to kind of go into one that um that True North said earlier, no bad injuries tonight. I know Kraft and Watson kind of made the whole team shudder on the same play, where that one where he got knocked out of bounds.

Speaker: lo i I think it's just the contusion. I don't think anything really bad happened to him there. Yeah, that plant leg looked a little bit weird with he did when he got hit. At first i was like, oh, it's just a charley horse. And then, yeah, it kind of forked and flexed a little more than you would like to see on the replay. So we'll see what happens.

Speaker: Um... And I do think that's the knee he tore. I think he was his left. I'm not told. Don't quote me on that. I'm not super certain. I'll give Strong a shout out. We bagged on him for his running, but he was really important as a pass up until he dropped the last one. And I know the game was mostly out of reach at that point, but like he had some like a third and a 13 and a third and 11 conversion on passes that were like maybe five yards down the field kind of thing. So, um,

Speaker: good good shit there like can't can't complain too much about that um deserves its flowers um Sturdivant on kick returns wasn't horrible he had he had a couple of good ones or decent ones they weren't punt coverage he was a again he's he's jeff jeff he like I know that he's only played five, six games, but he is really freaking good as a punt gunner. um Drew the hold to um help Whelan with his his net average on that one punt, um where he just because he just discombobulates the um the the blocker to his side. And the blocker has not no other choice but to grab him with both arms from behind on that play. And then he has the other one where he just

Speaker: beats the the blocker, makes the tackle on the sideline. like the I just do hope that Savion's return doesn't like um hinder his progression as a receiver. like He's their top gunner. like like That's not that's not at all that's not all in question but i really hope that Savion's return because there is room for both of them in this ah offense. I just especially with no read and um war on IR and stuff. i just Here's the thing about it.

Speaker: Here's the thing about it. Sky Moore, they said it was a left high ankle sprain. I think is what he said he's out with. If he returns this year, which it's possible he could return this year.

Speaker: That's where the decisions have to be made. because And this is where I think Bo Melton's time is limited. Because he even screwed up on Not screwed up, but was like out of place on one of the punt coverages.

Speaker: And it's like, okay, well, Sturdivant is now outplaying you on special teams. he's a He's been better than you want when he's getting his shot on offense. But he still has some dad drops and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. And so it's going to be one of those decisions like, okay, Savion's back. We'll see how long he holds up. Sturdivant's been playing good. Sky Moore, if he comes back this year, you know, they're going to put him back at, at both return spots.

Speaker: So it's going to be an interesting decision if that happens. I will give LeFleur one flower today. i i know JJ didn't like it. Friend of the show, JJ Leahy, didn't like it.

Speaker: But i this and the Minnesota game, the end of first half drives, I thought have been stellar, stellar clock management. um Hang on, hang on, hang on.

Speaker: True North, I am going to slander Melton until the day he's off of here, off the roster. And it's not because he's a bad person and all that. he's just, they continue to push him out there, even though that he continues to not be this, this weapon that they think he is.

Speaker: And, you know, he's okay for what he does, but now we're starting to get guys on the roster that are becoming better than him. Yeah.

Speaker: So I am going to slander him just because of those reasons. So shut it. And it's not slander when you're just saying, like, he needs to do the thing he's supposed to be really good at, punt gunnering.

Speaker: Like, that's his... That's the reason he's on this roster, that they went through all the trouble of, like, finding the loopholes to get him to the practice squad and all that kind of stuff, and then getting him back on the roster.

Speaker: The fact of the matter is that in Sturtevant... And, like I said, Sturtevant deserves all the flowers for this because I didn't foresee this at all. But... He is better at basically everything Melton is on the roster to do. He's a better deep threat because taller deep threats are better than short deep threats.

Speaker: And he's been the better gunner between the two of them this season. And like you said, when push comes to shove for those those last roster spots, you know in turn both in terms of who stays on when guys come off IR and who gets game day active roster spots,

Speaker: They're going to go with Sturdivant because he offers them more both in the special teams and as an actual at the position he plays. And that's one of the things that you and I have been harping on the last couple seasons is like when it comes down to it, special teams are important. I'm not diminishing that at all.

Speaker: But every guy who's active on game day needs to actually be able to play the the position that is on their roster spot. And Sturdivant is just way better at it than than Melton is. The only reason Melton is still getting snaps is the whole Sturdivant's a rookie.

Speaker: We don't trust that he knows the offense in and out like Melton does. and It's one of those situations that with Melton, it's you know how we always joked about like, you know, Donovan Jennings must have pictures of Matt LaFleur. That's the only reason he's been starting and trusting.

Speaker: it That's what it feels like with Melton too, where it's, You know, what does he have on these guys that he's able to continue to be out there? Because if you go look at his drops,

Speaker: They're worse because they're happening in moments that you can't afford to have them do drops. The Tampa Bay one. like Jordan couldn't have handed it to him down the middle of the field any better. And like I said, Melton is going to continue to get opportunities because he's been in the system. He knows the offense really well. And Jordan and him do have a connection. like He does...

Speaker: feel out routes the way Jordan likes him to and stuff. So like, it's gonna, like I said, it's not gonna be like when Jacobs comes back or even when Parsons comes, like they're he's not in danger for that kind of cut. But when like, like you said, when Moore comes back in a month or whatever, and they're back at 50, you know, like, and so like, you know, by that point, Parsons will have come back.

Speaker: hope Brinson will have come back. Shit, Colin Oliver might have come back by that point. And you're I'm surprised he's not back already. He must been something fierce. Yeah, well, they did say, like, he really screwed up whatever he screwed up when he got injured at the end of training camp. So... um and And with Brinson, they're going to be really cautious because it's like he got injured after he was injured kind of thing. So they're, they're like, you know, that that kind of stuff. But... um Excuse me.

Speaker: They... um Like, it's going to be at that point. and And I do think that they're going to do the thing they did at the end of preseason where it's like, they're going to cut him. He's a vested veteran and he's going right back on the practice squad kind of thing.

Speaker: Because... He becomes a brick glass in case of emergency, in case Sturtevant falters down the season kind of thing and stuff. So he's going to be on the 90-man roster no matter what.

Speaker: But in terms of his 53-man spot, game day active spot, like he's got he's gotta to pick it up. like that That's what we're getting at. um

Speaker: Let's see. gave strong You were given LeFleur his flower when I interrupted you. Oh, no, no. Like I said, he... like I know, like like I said, I know Leahy was kind of, like, complaining about how he handled it and stuff, but, like, that's that's sort of the, like, the art versus science of calling the two-minute drill, where it's, like...

Speaker: You do, and I know people were like, why are we running it here? And so I was like, you do have to protect yourself in the event that you don't pick up this first down. And like I said, like, I think I tweeted it on when they were on their own side of the field when it was third and one. I was like, you know, this is a run of some sort, but that, and I understand that you absolutely have to run the ball here because it's like, you have to force Dallas to either call a timeout or let 40 seconds come off the clock.

Speaker: Like, you have to you have to in that instance. But I don't feel good about it. And strong to his credit, pulled himself to a two-yard gain in that instance. Like, it was it was absolutely critical.

Speaker: But, like, and then from that point on, you're in, like, pseudo hurry up because it's, like, we're still trying to, like, manage the clock but also get into scoring range. We have all three timeouts, so we're not in a super rush kind of thing and stuff.

Speaker: And then, um... And then the one Leahy wasn't happy with was he's like, why is why isn't LeFleur calling the timeout when Golden um gets him down to the one yard line or whatever kind of thing? But I'm like, no, like...

Speaker: he is right lafleur is right to call that first run play or i forget if it was the golden play or the one after it but he's right to look up and be like are you gonna call timeout because for lafleur all he has to do in that instance is he's got two timeouts the ball's at the one or two yard line at that point all he has to in you've got first and go you convert it to first and go his job at that point is to make sure he gets three plays into the end zone with a chance to kick the field goal at the end

Speaker: That's it. Like, and in the medium, he is trying to use up all the clock and if he can get Dallas to use their last time out. So he played it perfectly. Like it it all worked out.

Speaker: And you saw Dallas trying to like run a, run get a field goal because they have Aubrey. They're trying to get it like ah into position for a last-ditch field goal with 20 seconds before the half kind of thing. And they make one strong tackle, and that's it. It's halftime kind of thing. So like it it all played out perfectly for the Packers going into that. So like I said...

Speaker: and and And I know people were, like, bagging on the floor coming out to half. He didn't tell Sean Ryan to hold on the screenplay coming out of halftime. He didn't tell Kraft not to get two feet down on the the second down play and stuff. like Like, you can't get mad when he plays it conservative and then get mad when it doesn't work when he starts calling aggressive plays out of the half.

Speaker: They worked against the Bears last week. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose kind of thing. So... ok Like, all that time around halftime, like I said, the only thing I'm on the floor for is his choice in running backs. And like I said, he's going to kind of escape from it because a certain player is coming back next week, which we'll talk about on Wednesday's episode.

Speaker: um Most likely is coming back. we We still have to wait to see what the team's going to So, um, but yeah, like, um, I, I think just in terms of how he managed the play calling outside of the Caleb situation, i thought it was a pretty good game for LeFleur.

Speaker: And, you know, there was a couple of first down runs, now but like I said, there were a handful of them that were blocked up well, and the two guys that were in there just didn't see the hole correctly, so...

Speaker: Like, he can't run the ball for them. And that's the thing is, like, there's one of those advanced stats where it's like, the O-line is actually top half of the league in terms of how they're blocking run plays.

Speaker: It's not hit their fault or Matt's fault that the back isn't seeing where the hole is, this kind of thing. So, like I said, that's as flowery as I'm going to get for LaFleur, but he does deserve credit for how he handled going into halftime and coming out of halftime.

Speaker: Works for me. I think that's about all I got too. We're we're at about an hour 30, so we probably should wrap this up so I can get this out to the peoples in the morning. But yeah, like I said, you like um yeah I do wish they could have like really blown Dallas out because you know Detroit was on a bye this week. Minnesota's on a bye this week. So you pick up a half game on both of them.

Speaker: But like I said, that's where it's good that you had no big injury. you know We'll have to see what happens with Kraft coming out of this game, CeCe coming out of this game. But... Kraft went back in, so I'm not worried too much about him.

Speaker: you' You know, in terms of, like, if it swells up on on him during the week or whatever kind of thing. But, yeah, like you said, they'll shoot it up and I think he'll be fine kind of thing. But, um... Overall, like, Detroit's gonna be fresh. They're gonna be at home.

Speaker: um And it's your third week in a row with a very shoddy defense that's facing you kind of thing. So, um... gotta make lemonades with the lemons you're given and um these are those kind of games where we talked about it in our preview this game was really important because you're trying to keep pace with minnesota who's deciding not to lose and the rest of your division was all three and two coming this week so yeah oh it would been know i keep trying to push him true but this is this is koano this is you should see how much i have to cut out of these episodes yeah

Speaker: Hey, I didn't burp or fart in this one too much, so we're good. But that's going do it. Hey, the Little Samurai has not come out yet, so I'm happy that one. The table is more than tall enough, so don't worry.

Speaker: On that note, thank you for joining us. I know it's been a long one, but lot to talk about when you're happy with the win. This does feel a little bit like the Pittsburgh win last year. Let's hope that the subsequent weeks off of this game don't turn out like that game did last season.

Speaker: But... We'll just put a bowl on this one. We won't give the whole outro spiel, but give us the comments when we post this one. um That's Iowa Joe. I'm Mike. Go Pack Go and Aloha.