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Predetermined: A Pro Wrestling Hangout-Episode 003- The One Where We Talk About Joey Ryan's Dick
59 Plays8 years ago
This week Garrett and Derrick discuss Joey Ryan's penis at length... As well as intergender wrestling, comedy matches and being called a mark!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Format Change
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Predetermined, a pro wrestling hangout. I'm your host, Garret Callender, and with me as always, the best tag team partner a boy could ask for, a man who would never betray me, even in a festival of friendship setting, Derek Halpin. Derek, say hi to the beautiful people.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hi, beautiful people. Let's rock this shit! We're doing things a little bit differently today, everyone. Instead of reviewing a show that we've been to in the past, we're gonna be talking about a broad wrestling subject, and by broad, I mean Joey Ryan, and by Joey Ryan, I mean Joey Ryan and Joey Ryan's dick. Oh my god, I can't wait. Alright. What a topic. Let's do this, man. As usual, card is subject to change. Hit our ding-dang music.
Friendship and Wrestling Parallels
00:01:11
Speaker
Alright, here we- actually, I wanna ask you a question. I know in the intro just there, I uh, I said that you would never betray me even in a festival of friendship setting. Is that true? No. I was gonna say, like, we've known each other long enough that you've had to have fucked me over at some point, or vice versa.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this is a show and there's people to entertain. When you're friends for 30 years, you fuck each other over a few times and you move on from it. And a year later, you're able to be friends again. I mean, that's how it works in wrestling anyway. Yeah. I mean, and I'm sure there's been a couple of times that I've wronged you like druggie to see Catwoman on opening night, you know, things of that nature. How did you wrong me in doing that?
00:01:58
Speaker
That was actually one of the best nights of my whole life. I mean, the Catwoman movie still gets brought up to this day. I think it would be fair to say that in any friendship of any length like this, everyone does a heel turn and a face turn throughout the relationship multiple times. So you can expect me to turn my back on you at some point.
00:02:24
Speaker
Not tonight, man. We got stuff to do. We gotta work together. We gotta be a team. We got a topic to discuss. Are you ready for this shit? Yeah, what are we doing? Let's go for it.
The Gimmick of Joey Ryan
00:02:35
Speaker
Tonight we will be talking about the controversial subject of Joey Ryan's dick and how he uses it in matches. We're grownups. Yeah, we're grownups doing this. Grownups talking about Joey Ryan's penis. And it's not at all inappropriate.
00:02:52
Speaker
If you don't know who Joey Ryan is, I assume that anyone listening to this probably would because you care about wrestling enough to listen to people talk about it. But if you don't, Joey Ryan is the king of dong style. And by dong we mean dick. Yes, no confusion there. Derek, how would you describe the U-Pornplex?
00:03:13
Speaker
Uh, erotic? It is erotic. It's Joey's finisher. People, an opponent will grab Joey's penis and he'll hulk out of it and then flip them, which I do think is a fantastic finisher.
00:03:28
Speaker
It's a very well-known finisher these days. Joey Ryan, primarily making his living on the indie scene these days. And yet, this is a guy who's known for his finisher and how it involves his dick. And there's a lot of controversy around it. I know people like Jim Cornette have expressed some displeasure with how he uses his dick as part of his routine and think that it is...
00:03:55
Speaker
I don't know how to feel about the fact that I articulated that pretty well. Well, do you think that Val Venus would have used his dick if he had thought of it first? I don't know.
00:04:05
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, I think the whole reason we talked about doing this is because there's a lot that can branch off of the subject. And I think where we'll start is just, do you think that using your dick for a pro wrestling match, do you think there's something about that that is out of control or a little too unrealistic? Or do you think that it brings shame on the business as many people claim that it does?
00:04:31
Speaker
No, not at all. I mean, I have witnessed the dick flip live several times, and I will tell you, every time that I've seen it happen, there is a room of smiling people. I think there's a room for a lot of different kinds of wrestling, comedy wrestling being one of those things. Do I think that, I mean, I was gonna say like, do I think I would ever see like Joey Ryan versus like a Brock Lesnar?
00:04:56
Speaker
There's nothing funnier in my head than picturing Joey flipping Brock with his dick. So yes, I can picture that Is that is that a wet dream match? Oh my god
00:05:09
Speaker
If he hasn't coined that term yet as part of his thing, he really needs it. If he hasn't used it, I just gave him a really great thing to use in marketing. Well, okay. God damn it. Now I'm just stuck on wet dream match. It was like, what are your top five Joey Ryan wet dream matches?
00:05:30
Speaker
Uh, Playgirl Shawn Michaels against Joey Ryan. Oh boy, that would, yeah. Obviously, Val, obviously, Val Venus versus Joey Ryan is one, right? I have to assume that that could still happen.
00:05:46
Speaker
Is Valvena still wrestling somewhere? I have a feeling that if Joey Ryan called him and was like, hey, you want to make a whole bunch of money this weekend? He'd be like, fuck yeah. But Valvena's like, wait, so all I have to do is do one roll? Well, Ann, grab your dick. Yeah, let's do it.
00:06:02
Speaker
Well, if I recall correctly, there was an angle during the Attitude Era with Val Venus where he got his dick choppy choppy off with a sword. He got his dick chopped off? Yeah, on WWF television. Do you remember who did it?
00:06:19
Speaker
I just remember there was a like a like some controversy. They had him tied up from the ceiling or something. And then there was like a room full of I can't remember. I think they were Asian and one of them had a samurai sword and they used it to hack off Val Venus's dick.
00:06:36
Speaker
So where did that storyline go? God damn, I do not remember this. I know that this is a thing that happened, but honestly, I don't remember the circumstances building up to this angle. But now that we're sitting here talking about circumstances where dicks get involved in wrestling angles, this was actually the second one that came to mind, other than Joey Ryan.
00:06:57
Speaker
Well, I feel like DX talked about their penises a lot, but other than just, like, dicks, I mean... If Jim Cornette does not like the dick flip, how did he feel about, like, Mae Young giving birth to a hand? I'm sure he fucking hated every second of it.
00:07:11
Speaker
I, I, that guy just isn't happy with much, but I do, there are, here's, here's the thing in defense of Jim Cornette and not in defense of his position, but in defense of him, I think he's been pretty consistent on the shit that he doesn't like in the shit that he, like what he wants. And I think Jim Cornette, um, as a popular wrestling personality is just kind of stuck in wrestling from like 30, 40 years ago.
00:07:37
Speaker
And he hasn't really embraced what wrestling has become, especially, I mean, I think fucking the peak of the attitude area and the growth of sports entertainment about drove him fucking insane, or did. And yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of people who have a hard time. I guess I'll say this.
00:07:59
Speaker
When we're talking about realism in wrestling, which is this, this is kind of what the topic comes back to with, with the, uh,
Innovative Wrestling Concepts and Fan Reactions
00:08:06
Speaker
with the dick flip with Joey Ryan. I think there's, as long as whatever you're doing in wrestling works, it's hard to question it.
00:08:16
Speaker
If it's getting a response, if the response is positive, if people are coming out to see it, then it's working. Now, I know I've seen interviews when they've asked Joey Ryan why it's okay. He's always said, well, things like an Irish whip is more unrealistic or just as unrealistic as me using my dick.
00:08:38
Speaker
And I think there's a lot to be said that's true about that. What I will say though is that not every cartoonish, outlandish idea is acceptable. I know that there was one time there was an idea being proposed in WCW by one disco inferno when he was a part of the creative team there for the Invisible Man. And WCW was, yeah, WCW was planning on having a camera follow nobody to the ring.
00:09:05
Speaker
a graphic come up that said the Invisible Man, and then a guy would get in the ring and would start bumping on his own, pretending that somebody was throwing him around. You would be happy to know that that has happened on the NDs since. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. So, since I proposed that scenario to you, would you call that a good creative decision?
00:09:46
Speaker
I think as long as everybody's having a good time, it's not hurting anyone. It's a dick flip. Do I think it's a good creative decision? If I'm trying to get a really realistic match, if I saw Roman Reigns' dick flip Brock Lesnar at the upcoming WrestleMania, once again, I would think that was awesome. I try. I think we're finding out more about you than we are about the culture around dick flipping
00:09:51
Speaker
I think if the people are having a good time it's fine.
Intergender Wrestling in Mainstream Promotions
00:10:11
Speaker
and wrestling.
00:10:11
Speaker
I think like the I keep trying to plug it into somebody that it's not funny on and it's just it is funny to everybody like if you're just if you're looking at it and you're like if Braun Strowman walked out there and was fighting Cain and Cain Braun Strowman flipped over a semi truck with his dick
00:10:33
Speaker
There's Joey Ryan's next spot. He needs to upstage Braun Strowman by flipping the semi with his dick. Did you mean to use the euphemism of plug it in on somebody? Or was that just an accident? I feel like at a certain point you also said that this was the hard thing.
00:10:56
Speaker
probably did I mean you know we're talking about penises here lots of dick jokes when we're talking about Joey Ryan you know I'm with you like I don't like you said I don't think it's hurting anybody it's getting a positive response and I think
00:11:12
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, he's getting booked like the guy has show. If you follow the guy on Instagram, he is constantly on airplanes getting to the next town. And he's constantly saying how much money he's making from this. And I tend to believe him. I mean, there are only what, like six indie wrestlers that now have shirts and Hot Topic and he's one of them.
00:11:32
Speaker
Sure, that's like he's making. Yeah, he's making a good living with his with his gimmick. And so I mean, again, like you said, it's not really hurting anybody. I think this is more of a philosophical debate on what you want when you watch wrestling, which brings which is, you know, I don't know, some people some people like it to be straight serious. You see, I think the cats out of the bag.
00:11:59
Speaker
with pro wrestling, and it has been for a long time, since everybody knows that it's a work. You mean that it's predetermined? Oh, shit. That's the name of our show. You plugged it. Good. Yeah, thanks. I don't really understand how somebody at this point can, knowing that it's predetermined, knowing that it's, you know, it is what it is, and to pick one aspect of it and go, oh, no, that makes it look so, you know,
00:12:28
Speaker
That makes it look like it's a joke. Well, do you think another big part of the controversy of Joey Ryan is him promoting intergender wrestling? Because a lot of his matches are against females.
00:12:41
Speaker
you know this is something that I like I'm actually surprised the WWE is a little bit late on because they they they kind of experimented with this a little bit during the Attitude Era with China and Mark Miro who'd he fight? Sable fought Sable yeah should beat the shit out of him
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I think actually I think one of the things that's kind of lacking with WWE right now, specifically, a lot of people complain about Stephanie McMahon is that she's a heel character a lot of times on TV and does a lot of dickish things and kind of, oh, emasculates. Oh, no, somebody will come out there and she'll chop his balls off. Right. Then there's no retaliation.
00:13:29
Speaker
Right. And that's a little bit of a problem because I don't think you're going to hear me advocate for a guy coming up with a with a haymaker and slugging out Stephanie McMahon. But I also don't think there's an issue if she's being a bitch if Lesnar grabs her and give her an F5 like I don't to me like I just it's the nature the nature of the the simulation that they're doing is that it's a wrestling ring and there's wrestling involved.
00:13:56
Speaker
and if you're being an asshole, you get slammed. See, this is a weird topic because in the world of professional wrestling, it's fine, but it also sounds like you're like, well, if she's asking for it, it's okay to pop her one. It's not. It is not. No, but here's the thing. I'm not saying in the world of professional wrestling, sometimes things can be forgiven. In the world of professional wrestling, things are solved by fighting.
00:14:23
Speaker
It's the very nature of the business. Which is also really weird as to why they have the anti-bully campaign. Yeah, I always thought that was very hypocritical. For me to watch that and then see like the Miz come out and tell me like, hey, it's not nice to say mean things to people and then just, you know, make fun of a crowd or, you know, are they gonna have Elias do that? Because he's never said a nice thing to a city.
00:14:50
Speaker
I don't know, man, the BS star campaigns always, I mean, I get where the thought process is coming from. Great campaign. Great campaign idea. I don't know if the messenger is exactly the right messenger. But no, I honestly to think I don't if we're if we're doing things equally, if we're if we're concerned about equality,
00:15:12
Speaker
I think that I'm pro intergender wrestling. I think there should be a little bit more of it. And I don't, I mean, I think it still kind of works as a novelty. I wouldn't want to see every match on the card be like that. There's ways to do an intergender match and not have it be brutal. Um, I think a place that it would fit well, at least in WWE would be somewhere like the cruiser weights.
00:15:36
Speaker
You know, have it be like a very athletic, acrobatic match, not a bunch of closed fist punches to the face. Right. Unless there's a female superstar who has the physical build to kind of warrant that match. Yeah. Because I mean, I've definitely I've seen a lot of intergender wrestling that I really like. I mean, let's see. Lucha Underground does it. They had I don't think she's there anymore because she's she's pretty mean and breaks everyone's arms. But a sexy star.
00:16:04
Speaker
I know freelance wrestling here in Chicago. I know they do it. OK. And then, yeah, like, you know, obviously my favorite wrestler, Candice LeRae, beautiful lady lover. Perfect. Can't wait to see it on the W.W. wife of wife of one Johnny Gargano, which a little later we'll have to discuss NXT takeover because that match was stellar.
00:16:25
Speaker
But no, there are matches. I remember watching this one. It was a tag match. And I want to say it was two ladies against two guys. And the only two people I remember being in it were Sammy Callahan, who is kind of blowing up. And he's really big on the Indies right now. He was in NXT for a minute, as Solomon Crow just didn't work out. It worked out better for him on the Indies. But he was fighting Heidi Loveless, now known as Ruby Riot.
00:16:53
Speaker
and I just remember he is a very aggressive wrestler like that's kind of his deal is he's mad and he's mean he's spitting on you and he'll boot your goddamn head off and it does make me slightly uncomfortable to watch a match that is mostly Sammy Callahan beating the shit out of a woman until she gets the comeback
00:17:15
Speaker
I don't know. That being said, it's a good match. She obviously could take it. She's a good wrestler. When I watch the movie Atomic Blonde, I'm not thinking those men shouldn't be hitting her. She shouldn't be in a fight with them. I will say, as long as I've known you, you've always been a guy who's liked movies and forms of entertainment that at the very least, one of the things they try to do is make you feel a little uncomfortable.
00:17:45
Speaker
And so my question is, is one of the, is one of the attractions of intergender wrestling that it does make you feel a little bit uncomfortable or do you think that the ultimate goal is to normalize
Role of 'Heels' in Wrestling Storytelling
00:17:55
Speaker
it? And so that you don't feel as uncomfortable when you're watching a guy and a girl go at it in the ring.
00:18:02
Speaker
I know that if you watch this gorilla warfare match between the young Bucks and the world's cutest tag team, Joey Ryan and Candice, there's a moment in that where the Bucks put on tack shoes, Candice gets color, they kick her in the head, she is just wearing that crimson mask.
00:18:21
Speaker
It is uncomfortable, but is how uncomfortable you are with it. That really gets heat on the other team that did that to her. So when she does succeed, you feel even better about it. But it does make you cringe a little. I don't know. That's why. I don't know. To me, it's like any other form of entertainment. If you're going to have a bad guy, you might as well have them be as bad as they can possibly be because it makes you want the hero to succeed even more.
00:18:52
Speaker
I guess the way I look at it though is if, I could never picture it in a WWE setting other than what I said about just a very athletic match and the cruiserweights, but I can't picture Elias coming out and punching Bayley, and then somebody from the back not running out and stopping that.
00:19:14
Speaker
Well, let me ask this question, though. Instead of thinking of it through terms of Elias punching Bayley, what if it's Elias coming out and giving his finisher to Bayley because of her interfering in a match from the previous week?
00:19:30
Speaker
I think there's something visually different about a wrestling move being done to somebody as opposed to a punch. Because I think one of them elicits a different emotional response in people. Because wrestling moves are seen, they're just inherently looked at as, oh, this is part of the show, it's a work.
00:19:50
Speaker
I don't know, there's something about, I guess when I'm picturing these athletic matches, I am picturing suplexes and things like that. But when you say, what's Elias's finisher? Does he basically do the crossroads? It's like a fisherman, I think it's called the fade away. It's a rolling fisherman suplex. I don't know, I guess it comes down to there's certain moves that would make me more uncomfortable than others.
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, let me let me this is like I think this is a perfect time to actually talk about this, which is right now WWE is doing the mix match challenge on Facebook after Smackdown every week, which I think is delightful. I agree. I'm actually having a lot of fun with it. I'm disappointed with Raw seemingly winning every week. That's a different subject.
00:20:35
Speaker
But one of my issues with the mixed match challenge, as it is with a lot of the modern mixed tag wrestling that WWE has been doing for over a decade, is that when one of the wrestlers tags their partner, the other partner on the other team is immediately in the match, which completely ruins the dynamic of a tag team match.
00:21:13
Speaker
because the whole
00:21:16
Speaker
I don't think we've seen a match yet where both opponents in one corner got beaten down so much that like one opponent tags the other and the other person is already just a lifeless body that has to drag themselves into the ring to continue to get beaten. Yeah.
00:21:33
Speaker
Like it just, everybody comes in fresh every time is what it feels like. Yeah. And that's part of the psychology of a tag team match is especially like cutting off the corner and not letting the guy that you're working on and getting some heat on, not letting him tag his partner. And here it's as soon as you do the tag to your partner, the other guy's already in or the other girl. To me, it's just weird.
00:21:56
Speaker
And the way it should be to me is that should be the built, that should actually be the whole tension of a mixed tag match is, oh my God, like the girl tagged in the guy. And he's not ready. Yeah, and is the girl gonna actually face the guy?
00:22:11
Speaker
Cause that's what everybody's waiting for. That's where a lot, I mean, anytime, what was it during the Sasha Banks Finn Balor match? Like there was actually some intergender like interaction there. And I think there needs to be more of that. So I guess what I'm, what I'm discovering is that I'm just completely pro intergender wrestling.
00:22:28
Speaker
Honestly, something that would be pretty cool. I don't think it would work with every wrestler. You could probably have Alexa Bliss slap somebody in the face and then walk away. But I think somebody like Asuka, if she got tagged in and we're standing in there with a man, I could easily see her roundhouse kicking him in the head, him rolling out, and the female having to come in. Right. But I also don't see a world in the WWE where it's gonna be okay for anyone to ever retaliate.
00:22:59
Speaker
And I think that's okay, like with the WWE. I think it's okay that they don't have that.
00:23:06
Speaker
Well, here's my question then for you is what do you, do you inherently feel like WWE has to obey certain rules because it's the WWE or do you think because here's the difference. You can tell just an entire emotional feel difference between NXT and between raw or Smackdown. Like, yeah, NXT feels like a smaller indie setting.
00:23:32
Speaker
which is what they're going for. And I think if I'm in a, you know, a Legion Hall somewhere and seeing it, it's different than something that is televised worldwide that's, I mean, we're all watching it, but it is intended for children. But do you feel like you could watch Adam Cole do his finisher to Candice LeRae? I've seen it. Well, right. But that's what I'm saying. But could you see that happen in NXT? No. Well,
00:24:02
Speaker
More so, and honestly, I think the only reason I can picture it in NXT is because everyone there now are indie people who have been in these matches. But okay, actually just speaking of that, when they signed Candice, one reason I never thought she would get signed is because of the intergender wrestling. But when she got signed, WWE even promoted her as having wrestled Kevin Owens and Cesaro.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah, and the fact that they acknowledged it at all surprised the hell out of me. They clearly did it to give her street cred.
00:24:39
Speaker
which means that they're acknowledging that if a girl can hang with a guy, and that it's something that can happen, that it sets you apart from other women. Oh, I think that automatically, I mean, they didn't say that about Ruby Riot. They didn't say that, you know, she used to fight guys. Since they said it specifically about Candace, that would lead me to believe, or at least hope, that they're setting her up to be one tough cupcake, as they call her. You know, like tougher than the rest of the ladies on the roster.
00:25:08
Speaker
a ding-dang cup, a ding-dang cupcake. She's tougher than a ding-dang old cupcake.
00:25:16
Speaker
I know, I just, I think this is a great, I think this is a great thing to debate, which is just, to me, WWE is always, even if it's slowly, they're evolving. And I don't know if it'll take Vince leaving for him to be, well, you gotta remember, when CM Punk did his podcast appearance with Colt Cabana after he left WWE, he referenced the fact that Vince was horrified that there were gonna be women fighters in UFC soon.
00:25:44
Speaker
Now, fast forward to this past Sunday, you have Ronda Rousey debuting in WWE after having a career doing UFC. So it's like the longer it goes, the more comfortable people there get with the idea of women being more physical and maybe having more interactions with their male wrestler counterparts.
00:26:11
Speaker
I don't know. I could totally see it being something that happens in the next couple of years. And you would have to think they're considering it because they're doing the whole mix match challenge. They could have done anything with that Facebook slot. They could have done like a dark match. They could have done like all sorts of different fun things, but they chose to do an intergender tag match tournament.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, real quick about the the the mix match challenge. So I think watching it, you kind of like I think we'd all like to assume that Alexa Bliss and Braun Strowman are probably walking out of that thing. The winners.
WWE's Public Image and Fan Perception
00:26:44
Speaker
Oh why because they're representing Connors Cure? I think because they're representing Connors Cure. The weirdest thing on that show is like having everybody promote their charities and it's nice that you know they're getting to bring up the charities but only one gets the hundred thousand dollars. Which is weird because it's predetermined.
00:27:05
Speaker
So the second it's like, oh, they're fighting for UNICEF. And then when they come out and they're like, because I actually said out loud, oh boy, who's Braun Strowman fighting for? Because I couldn't wait to see a video of him. I'm fighting for Connor's cure.
00:27:18
Speaker
Oh, he just screams because he didn't know what to do afterwards. To me, if there's anything to get worked up about, it's kind of that, where they're trying to be like, hey, look at all this cool stuff we're doing for charity, and the winner's charity gets this. And I'm like, yeah, but you guys are deciding that.
00:27:39
Speaker
Like, they already know who they're donating the money to, and guess what? It's their own fucking charity. Not that I have a problem with it. Obviously, Connor's Cure does some amazing things for kids with pediatric cancer and whatnot, but like...
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think the fun part in this this tournament would be like, hey, everybody, they're each picking a partner of the opposite sex and then they're going in that ring and they're going to shoot fight for 20 minutes because it's silly to do this thing for charity if the you know, if the charity doesn't actually get it. And then it would be fun to find out who in the WWE sucks at fighting. Yeah. Who do you think is the worst fighter in the WWE? Like, if you like, who do you think there is just like, oh, I would fight that guy.
00:28:23
Speaker
Well the front runner a couple months ago probably would have been James Ellsworth but my guess is Heath Slater.
00:28:31
Speaker
I don't know, I would hope that it's somebody more fun when you're like, oh my god, it turns out Seth Rollins sucks at punching. Seth Rollins is a complete pussy. Or like Cesaro, like somebody who's just known for really good in-ring work. Or if we find out that Sheamus just has two kind of a heart. I can't do it. I don't think that was a horrible Sheamus impression. I don't want to boot my friend.
00:28:58
Speaker
No, you know what? You know what would be a really great twist? This is how I would book it. You do the mix-match challenge tournament. And it gets down to you have your team that's won, presumably Braun and Alexa. And then the general manager comes out and says, actually, only one of you gets to take home this money and give it to your charity of choice. And it'll be the winner of you two. And then you have the general manager do a fucking double cross on the team. And you have to have an intergender match for the charity money.
00:29:28
Speaker
So basically what's going to happen is they announced that Braun Strowman throws Alexa Bliss like six rows deep into the crowd, declares that she was the last man standing. It would just be like the most dramatic because she's so fucking tiny. And then
00:29:48
Speaker
and he does that like sweaty turn and he goes, I'm sorry, and says that to her and then just fucking throws her. Oh my God. This character has potential to be the funniest guy on the roster because at this point, Braun Strowman's gimmick is what's he gonna flip next? It's not a bad gimmick though. Well, did you see in the mix match challenge video of him trying to teach Alexa Bliss how to flip over a car?
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah, where was part two to that, by the way? Because he said, I don't know, they were headed somewhere to do something else, and then we just didn't get it. Yeah. She said, like, I have a better idea, and then walks away, and then that's just how the video ends. Like, what the fuck? What would you like to see, can Braun Strowman flip next, since he murdered Kane last night? I saw a good tweet the other night that said, I want to see Braun flip over the elimination chamber.
00:30:45
Speaker
like it like he gets eliminated and he's just like fuck this I guess like the whole thing off in the section 110 I guess like it's at a point where it's like well it's like I don't the intergender fighting isn't believable but this motherfucker right here he is actually semis
00:31:03
Speaker
You know what's funny though, I could totally see them doing that as a spot in the elimination chamber match, where like he gets eliminated and locked out and then something happens inside the cage and he comes back and grips it and then obviously they use whatever mechanism to lift the cage, but they do it so that it looks like he's pulling it up. And getting back inside. Yeah, like I could totally see this being the thing they tried to sell me. Fuck, they tried to sell me on him flipping a semi truck.
00:31:30
Speaker
And they did sell me on it. Oh yeah, me too. I'm just saying that I don't doubt that they have the balls to tell me he can do this. I mean, this is really late to be talking about when we first got to see Braun Strowman doing things of this nature. But I don't think anything has made me laugh harder recently in the WWE than when he pushed Roman Reigns upside down and backwards off of a loading dock while strapped to a gurney.
00:31:58
Speaker
lands basically on his head. Like, honestly, if you flip that over, he would... his head would be squished. Like, he... there would be blood everywhere. Yeah, he would be deceased. He gets them loaded into that truck, and when he's screamed, I'm not through with... Oh my god, I don't know if I ever... First of all... I yelled so much in my living room that day. I don't feel like they really took full advantage of how marketable that quote was. Oh, they're like... Why isn't there a shirt?
00:32:28
Speaker
I know! I mean he has the Catch These Hands shirt, the Monster Among Men shirt. They could have run with that, I'm not finished with you thing for months. Like that could have been like a full year of just like anytime Roman thinks the feud is over. Like they had a match at a pay-per-view, it's three weeks later, and they just pass each other in the back. If you look at the life of Roman Reigns,
00:32:51
Speaker
Like take getting booed everywhere you go aside. His life sucks. So he's got a monster chasing him around like just trying to murder him because they're at work. And then like think about him versus he had that long thing with Bray Wyatt where Bray Wyatt's like posting pictures of his daughter everywhere. That sucks too. Like he just that's
00:33:14
Speaker
Okay, so that you can see the life of these steward, this, I don't know why I'm admitting to this, I watch a lot of Total Divas. That is not a transition that I thought we were headed towards. Well, I just wanted to say like, you know, sometimes seeing what these guys have to deal with outside of the ring is more fun, especially during the time, do you remember, it would have been during John Cena and Rusev's feud.
00:33:40
Speaker
right during it would have been about mania 31 when they finally aired the episodes of total divas that were airing along that time you see shots of them having the feud in the ring and then you see john and nicky at dinner he's taking a bite of steak and she goes john and he looks up
Humor's Role in Wrestling Engagement
00:33:57
Speaker
and she goes i think i'm gonna freeze my eggs and he had a look on his face like oh god
00:34:05
Speaker
And just for some reason seeing him like, you know during the day or during the evening He's dealing with the Bulgarian brute who's just like crushing him and choking him unconscious so over and over and Then at night, you know afterwards he's dealing with that. It's like watching a Beverly Hills 90210 version of the WWE It's like Archie and the Riverdale gang
00:34:28
Speaker
And I don't know if that would necessarily be funny with anybody else. It's funny with John Cena, because you already get the impression he already has to put up with a lot of shit. Like, and he knows he does. And so when he just... The John Cena we're getting on there, it's like he's the Lord of the Manor on Downton Abbey. Like, he's just this really fancy boy who wears very ill-fitting suits. John Cena loves his suits. He looks weird in a suit.
00:34:54
Speaker
I don't have much to say about John Cena. I think my favorite thing there was me saying that, being like, man, I'm so ready to talk to somebody about this because Total Divas is only something I talk to Leah about because we watch Total Divas together. And you don't have opinions on John Cena's suit. Maybe your homework for the weekend is catch up on, you know, 12 seasons of Total Divas.
00:35:18
Speaker
Maybe your homework for the weekend is to start a second podcast where that's what you talk about with somebody. Maybe your wife, where you talk about all your favorite episodes of Total Divas together. See, she will watch it and then it's over and we don't have to talk about it. This podcast exists so that I never have to tell her anything about wrestling. You lay in bed at night stewing about what happened on Total Divas.
00:35:42
Speaker
See, my head hurts often because of all the thoughts I have about that show and not getting to share them. Because it has to start off with you acknowledging, hey, so I was watching Total Divas, and this thing happened. You have to let somebody else know that that's something that's in your rotation. So are you telling me that when it premieres, you are not going to watch Miz and Mrs.? I sincerely doubt it. You're such an idiot.
00:36:14
Speaker
Well, I guess let me ask this question because we were talking about a little while ago you definitely think that comedy has a place in wrestling is sort of what I'm getting out of the Joey Ryan conversation is that you don't have a problem with stuff in pro wrestling being a little bit humorous and I guess I'm with you on that which is that I
00:36:37
Speaker
Since everybody knows this, as far as comedy in wrestling goes, some of the best comedy matches I've ever seen are a lot of these indie guys. And they've been at things like PWG, because they'll always be at Bola. There's always a comedy match. And when it is, is right before the main event on the third day. Because at that point, you've spent 16 total hours in this building over a weekend.
00:37:03
Speaker
You're hot, you've watched a lot of wrestling. It's time for the main event. You've already been in this building for six hours this day. And it's something to break up the last match you saw in the main event. Right, something breaks up the monotony and it's something different. But seriously, some of the most fun times I've ever had a show have been during those matches. I mean, the first time I got to see a slo-mo match where in the middle of it was a 10 man tag, in the middle of it,
00:37:31
Speaker
somebody like shout slow-mo, the entire ring, everybody is fighting in slow motion, the whole crowd started chanting, this is awesome in slow motion. This is awesome. And when you watch the video, the announcers go slow motion, the whole crowd just bought it.
00:37:51
Speaker
And when it all came back, like when it went out of slow motion, the whole crowd went fucking crazy. And it was like the energy came back. Everybody got rejuvenated during that.
00:38:04
Speaker
Well, I can tell you my roommate, Chris, went to a freelance wrestling show here in Chicago a couple years ago on Halloween. And one of the matches they did at Freelance is they did a Halloween themed battle royal where they had all the wrestlers in the company dress up as other famous wrestlers. So there was a guy there dressed like The Rock. There was a guy dressed there as Terry Funk.
00:38:31
Speaker
A guy dressed as Andy Kaufman, who when he came out, anytime somebody tried to flip him over the top rope, he grabbed the ropes and would scream, I'm from Hollywood. You can't do this to me, I'm from Hollywood. And I don't know, I'm with you. Again, I don't think there's any specific rules as far as what can and can't be done in wrestling. It just has to work. It has to be fun. And I mean, what would you say? There's a correct answer to this question.
00:39:01
Speaker
What do you think is the most successful or the most popular pro wrestling gimmick of all time? As far as like a straight gimmick. Fuck. I feel like you're trying to get me to think of something silly in wrestling. Oh, it's something pretty straightforward.
00:39:23
Speaker
I don't know. I'm scared now to give you the wrong answer. Well, I'll answer for you. I think a lot of people, the consensus on that is it's Vince's greatest creation, which was The Undertaker.
Balancing Realism and Fantasy in Wrestling
00:39:35
Speaker
Oh, you mean the wizard that fights?
00:39:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's an undead wizard who can summon lightning in an arena and who has druids and is known for no selling and rolling his eyes in the back of the head because he's dead. Those are my favorite kind of matches when somebody who doesn't watch happens to be around and they're like, so this is wrestling? Yeah, this is wrestling. Yeah, this is pro wrestling. What's going on right here? Oh, this wizard is in a feud with this cult leader.
00:40:07
Speaker
Oh, what's happened? Well, the wizard so far burned up the cult leader's rocking chair with a lightning bolt. And he's really mad about it. And he's going to summon his female undead spirit to help him beat the undertaker. He has lightning powers? Yeah. Does he use them in the ring? No. No. Why? Well, that'll get you disqualified.
00:40:31
Speaker
That's cheating. Undertaker doesn't cheat unless it's two matches into a three-match series with Brock Lesnar. No, I just... Oh my god, that would be amazing because obviously the only thing that hurts Brock Lesnar is him getting hit in the dick. And that doesn't hurt Joey. Book it.
00:40:58
Speaker
Like Undertaker tries to give that low blow to Joey Ryan, not happening my man, dead man's getting dick flipped. That's how the Undertaker's career is ended, it's ended by Joey Ryan. Joey Ryan at WrestleMania with the U-Pornplex, one, two, three, dead man, and then the thing is, like, dead man already took off half his clothes last year to walk up the fucking ramp. This year he goes out there, takes off the rest of his clothes, has to leave naked and ashamed.
00:41:26
Speaker
I'm just waiting for the spot in the match where the undertaker's down, Joey Ryan's down, the undertaker suddenly sits up, Joey Ryan's dick suddenly sits up. Undertaker does his set up and then you just see Joey get an erection. Oh, fuck. Yeah. WWE, WWE really needs to get on putting Joey Ryan in there and, uh, you know, giving him the creative freedom he deserves.
00:41:54
Speaker
No. Oh, it's never going to. It's never going to fucking happen. So you brought up Cornette earlier.
Criticism of Comedy Wrestling
00:42:00
Speaker
One thing in comedy, Jim Cornette fucking hates comedy wrestling. Yeah, I think that's kind of the point I was getting at earlier. Yeah, if it's so did you have you ever seen him talk about Chuck Taylor?
00:42:13
Speaker
I haven't. Chuck Taylor is another one of my favorite wrestlers. He's a good wrestler, but he's also a comedy wrestler. So he's currently the PWG heavyweight champion while still being a comedy wrestler. It works. It works for him. But there was one of those 10-man matches, I don't remember if it was Ebola weekend, but he pulls out an imaginary hand grenade.
00:42:37
Speaker
and is threatening everyone in the ring with this grenade and he eventually drops it on the ground and everyone gets blown out of the ring.
00:42:49
Speaker
You need to hear Jim Cornette talk about that because hearing a grown man be seriously angry about that spot and the whole time he's like, this fucking piece of shit, Chuck Taylor, exposing the business, dropping a goddamn hand grenade.
00:43:11
Speaker
See, I don't know. I can kind of see it from his perspective, where he feels like there's a line. And, fuck, maybe he has a hard line where he just doesn't like funny things in wrestling at all. What do you think we'll see first? Do you think we'll see Jim Cornette take a dick flip or see him punk return to a wrestling ring?
00:43:29
Speaker
you'll see CM Punk return to a wrestling ring before you see the, I dunno, man, like see to me, I think there's a lot of stuff that they, like you said earlier about like the inner gender wrestling, there's a lot of stuff that you can get away with on the Indies that just doesn't feel like it'll ever translate to WWE. I mean, maybe that evolution will take place and obviously WWE doesn't have a problem doing, you know, comedy.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean they have Breeze Dango and The Ascension being pretty funny right now and New Day is consistently funny and good wrestlers. Right, but do they do anything that pushes the bounds of your imagination a little too far? What's the most outrageous thing you see on a weekly basis from WWE? I guess like Joey Ryan said, the Irish whip.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah, but it is pro wrestling. Exactly. Oh, my God. I remember Cornette would have fucking hated this. I was at a. So I think it was in Dallas mania weekend. I saw Colt Cabana and somebody else wrestled two guys. I don't remember their names. I've never seen them again since. But they were Boy Scouts.
00:44:43
Speaker
If you know these wrestlers names, please send us their names at Wrestle. What is it? Wrestle Hangout? Yeah, Wrestle Hangout or at Gartet or at Halloween helping. I need to see these guys again. It was like a very heavy dude. Like it was like a smaller guy and a fatter guy and they were a tag team and they were both just dressed as Boy Scouts. And I remember that being one of the funniest matches I've ever seen.
00:45:09
Speaker
I guess the thing is, cause I knew we had talked about discussing this at some point and possibly during this podcast, but which is the word Mark. What to you does the word Mark mean?
00:45:25
Speaker
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but I think in the last episode, you used the word mark to describe us. I used the word mark a lot. And I didn't use it. It's kind of like the word cuck. You introduced me to the word cuck, and I use cuck in situations that's completely inappropriate sometimes because it's funny to me that it's being inappropriately used. I think you have to explain what that means so that people follow along.
00:45:49
Speaker
What, Mark or Cuck? Cuck. Isn't this an insult used by the alt-right to people that they don't like? I mean it more like when you use it.
00:46:01
Speaker
I don't, but that's the thing is that when I use it, I use it just kind of as like a vague term for you're a fucking asshole. And I think that's pretty funny. I just wanted people to know that that's how you're using the word. Oh yeah. To me, I'll just use it for anything. I'll, if somebody cuts me off in traffic, I'll call them a cuck. Like it doesn't have, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be anything sexual or fuck. I don't understand how that became a thing in the last few years, but it's a thing.
00:46:26
Speaker
So, to transition out of talking about cucks, let's talk about marks, because I know that you're uncomfortable with the term mark, and so am I, but I think we're uncomfortable for different reasons. Because I don't like how mark is used by guys in the pro wrestling industry as a condescending word towards fans. But didn't the term mark actually start in the carny days of it?
00:46:55
Speaker
Oh fuck man, I didn't look at the Urban Dictionary page for Mark. I mean, I haven't either, but like, I know my goddamn pro wrestling history because I don't have anything else to do because guess what? I'm a Mark. Man, I fucking hated saying that. But no, I think Mark is a term that they used to use in the Carney days to like, you know, that's what they would call the people that they're like, oh, we got him. Like he's buying into it. Yeah.
00:47:23
Speaker
And I don't know, there's something about it. I think it's like how, it's like I wanna have my own word. I'm gonna be called something on my own terms. How like Star Trek fans are like, we're not called Trekkies anymore because that's offensive to us. We're Trekkers now. Well, I remember when I first started getting hardcore into like the backstage aspect of wrestling and I started hearing words like Mark and I'm sure you've heard the spin off of it for Smark. I like that even less.
00:47:54
Speaker
Well yeah, to me, I've just completely eliminated that because I kind of operate under the impression that everyone's a smirk.
00:48:03
Speaker
Right? Other than like, because unless you're talking about like a five year old kid, who everything that they watch at a wrestling show, their parents let them believe that it's a real fight. Everyone else is kind of a mark, right? I think to me the word smart means like somebody who reads the dirt sheets, who listens to all the podcasts, who just knows everything behind the scenes.
00:48:27
Speaker
Isn't that what we are technically? I shut up, man. Quit calling me fucking names. I don't like it. Because here's what I do. I cut the legs out from that from that argument. If you're somebody who spends money on wrestling, it's because you enjoy it.
00:48:45
Speaker
It's just like fans of other shit don't have names to call like, you know, just fans of fans of the people who are watching like burn notice on USA. They don't have a name to make fun of them for liking it. Well, what about Trekkers? Well, they had, you know.
00:49:03
Speaker
We both like something that is not accepted by everyone. What I'm picking up on is there's just something dirty about the word you don't like and I agree with you. I think the thing that bugs me about the word mark is how it's used by some of the guys to kind of condescend to the people who give them their money. Like their bread and butter are the marks.
00:49:24
Speaker
And I know, I see shoot interviews with Kevin Nash where he like says, oh, you're a fucking mark, man. You're a fucking mark. And I love Kevin Nash. I mean, fucking he was part of the outsiders. One of the reasons I got into wrestling, but it just, it comes across as kind of pretentious to sit there and have a condescending word towards the people that you're banking on. Like the people who like are really into it, who go and spend their money and are basically paying for your house.
00:49:51
Speaker
or your family so that you're making a living in the wrestling industry, you're not, you're not banking on the guys that are just on the sidelines of the product who know that it's not, you know, like a legit fight. Like you're not getting their money. You're getting the money of the people who sit in the second row and cheer and pay money for the travel packages. And if you want to call them marks, sure. But to me, I don't understand why it's got to be like a negative term.
00:50:16
Speaker
Well, it's like, you know, Kevin Nash is calling you a mark, but you're like, I bought your fucking action figure, asshole.
00:50:23
Speaker
Like, and I bought it because I like you. You seem like a- Right, that's exactly my point. Yeah, no, I, okay, do you remember when we went to that Ring of Honor show? We were standing out front waiting for the doors to open, and a wheelchair van pulled up, and a guy in a wheelchair got- I forgot about this story, it's all just now. The guy in the wheelchair, like, got out of the van, like, they unloaded him, and he looked over and saw me, and I had on a shirt with the New Japan logo.
00:50:51
Speaker
and he came over and started talking to me about podcasts and wrestling, and I think he was making fun of, like, I was getting made fun of a lot that day, because I had on a Nikki Bella hat. Fuck you, I'll never apologize for wearing that Nikki Bella hat anywhere. You shouldn't, you fucking mark. But he's talking to us about, like, New Japan and, like, you know, everything. Like, he obviously understood all of it too, and then somebody called him, and he turns and goes, just a minute, I'm talking to these fucking marks.
00:51:22
Speaker
And then when he turned back around in my head, I was like, I don't know where the conversation goes from here. Because this man just called me a name. Is that what bothers you about the word? Is that somebody called it to you in a way basically calling you an idiot? I don't know. I think that when people think of wrestling fans, they think of people who are either overweight or underweight and socially awkward.
00:51:50
Speaker
Sure. And a lot of us are. A lot of us, a lot of us are. That's what I was going to say is that like, I think there's a little bit of truth to that. No, there's a hundred percent truth to that. I've been to a wrestling show like I'm, you know, I grew up an awkward fat boy. I get it. But I don't know. There's just.
00:52:10
Speaker
Is there something wrong with me? Am I embarrassed to be associated with the thing I love? Am I embarrassed by wrestling because I don't feel like I am? I don't want to be called the name though.
00:52:23
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, I guess when we talked about this, you said, I'm kind of taking the word back. And I had never thought of it that way. I just, to me, it's like a word that's kind of always been used as like an insult. And then I stop and I think about it and I go, but I can tell you that when Shinsuke Nakamura threw Roman Reigns over the top rope,
00:52:47
Speaker
at the Royal Rumble and eliminated him. I marked out because on one hand I was excited as a fan that Shinsuke had won the Rumble and then there was the other part of me who appreciates the creative aspect of pro wrestling that was thinking thank fucking God that we don't have to creatively deal with all the chaos that's gonna come from Reigns being in that position of being the guy that won the Rumble again and get boot out of the building to close the show.
00:53:13
Speaker
And I don't know, to me, I don't think there's anything to be ashamed about acknowledging that you're
Wrestling Fan Terminology and Its Impact
00:53:19
Speaker
a fan. Because if you're watching, you're a fan. And to me, I guess we're saying that we as a people, us as wrestling fans, us, the Marx, need to march to goddamn Kevin Nash's house with a sign that's like, fuck you, Mr. Nash.
00:53:34
Speaker
we are marks i think if you said i think if you called him mr nash he'd be nicer but i'd be terrified because he posts a lot of pictures on social media of his guns he also posts a lot of pictures of him drinking red wine that's true you know well i wish i had a mean name to call him for that kevin ash tore a quad to this podcast
00:54:01
Speaker
Now I'm just picturing all the wrestling fans picketing the wrestlers and just like, no, no, we're going to watch you on our terms and you're not going to make fun of us.
00:54:11
Speaker
I mean, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. Like I kind of get where you're coming from with the whole Mark thing. Like you just like it's a word you'd rather avoid. But I guess I look at it and I'm just being honest. I mean, I'm I can sit here and have a conversation with you and with a few other people where we talk about, oh, here's what I think, you know, the writing team should do for this angle. And here's where I think the storyline should go, because we know it's not real.
00:54:34
Speaker
We're technically smarts by definition because we're fans and we're smartened up to what's going on behind the scenes a little bit. But I feel like what you're getting ready to say is, and guess what? You are a fucking Mark snowflake. You are a fucking Mark, you cuck bitch.
00:54:59
Speaker
I don't know, to me, I guess it doesn't bug me. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm just numb to words. Well, I guess like by the end of this conversation, I'm embarrassed where I'm just like, you know what? I like what I like and I don't want to be called names for it. That's fine if I watch Total Divas and I want to see Braun Strowman flip over things from Joey Ryan's dick. We're gonna match against him. Fuck you.
00:55:21
Speaker
It's like, oh my God, it's for real. Like, there everything, like I bet there have been moments on Total Divas where I marked out just as much as I did when Shinsuke Nakamura won me. I'm like, yes, yes. How much did you mark out when The Rock deflected a missile with his bare hands?
00:55:41
Speaker
Oh, you mean in Fast and Furious number eight? Yeah, you marked out. You better believe if a camera had cut to me, I was punching that air boy. Like, I was just giving the air fists. Oh, yeah. I buy anything that happens in those movies. What'd you think of NXT TakeOver?
Praise for NXT TakeOver's Storytelling
00:55:59
Speaker
Oh, my God. Start to finish. Amazing show. I mean, especially when I say finish like that that that almost versus Gargano match at a certain point in that fucking match. I looked at my phone and realized I have been watching this for 45 minutes and I have no idea who's going to win.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't mind spending some time just talking about that match and how much that blows my fucking mind because I've been watching wrestling for a long fucking time and that ranks right up there with the best matches I've ever seen because there's a lot of times where you'll have a match that has multiple false finishes and close calls and you know,
00:56:40
Speaker
And a lot of times later in the match, it gets to be a little bit unbelievable. I don't know if I've ever seen a match that made me buy into the idea that those guys were still kicking out at two and three quarters the way that they were. But holy shit, like what a fucking match. And man, they made it seem like Gargano was just like unconscious about halfway through that match and just taking more and more abuse. Oh, I mean, both he took a lot of abuse.
00:57:08
Speaker
But I mean, almost did, too. I mean, that was just... God damn. Like, it's hard for me to even... Like, now that I'm... I'm a few days removed from having seen it. But I just know that going through just every time there was a pin, it was just back and forth so much that whole match. I never knew what was gonna happen. And it's matches like that that, like, I was in it. I was so sucked in. I had no clue who was gonna win. And that's the best kind of match.
00:57:36
Speaker
I think to touch on what I was saying a minute ago, was there, was there, um, this is, this is the key to me to be like a really, really, really good wrestling match is that when the false finish happens, it's not too much. You know what I mean? Like you don't think like, I don't buy them kicking out of that.
00:57:58
Speaker
I feel like that match was just like they had both taken so much abuse That they just kept kicking out like I'm not gonna let this be the one Yeah But it didn't but it wasn't like unrealistic like it wasn't like they were doing too much Oh that was enough to that match where it felt like I was watching a fucking fight Yeah, absolutely especially like the last few minutes with the sequences there
00:58:22
Speaker
Like, oh my God, like no, seriously, one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. And I know that it's already being, like you said, it's only January and they're already talking about it as a match of the year candidate, but man, no, seriously, I've watched some, some really good wrestling matches, but that one was aggressive. And I mean, they started off with a lot of like really good grappling and a lot of sequences on the mat and.
00:58:45
Speaker
pushing each other off. Basically what you're saying is they got the time to build a wrestling match the way a wrestling, like a main event wrestling match should be. Right. They told a full story in that and they got the amount of time as like, you know, a one hour drama would on a TV show to just fight.
00:59:06
Speaker
Right. And I think that here's the thing I love about that match. And I can't say this for a lot of the matches, like on the main WWE roster. If I had to go grab just a match, a wrestling match that had like no like weird gimmicks where it's like, you know, Kane or, you know, there's an outrageous stipulation. If I had to go grab just a wrestling match to show to somebody who's not a fan and be like, here's what pro wrestling can be when it's done right. I think it would be that match.
00:59:35
Speaker
And I know we're just a few days removed from that, but that's totally what I felt as that match kind of ended. I was like, holy shit, what a fucking ride. And then you ask yourself the question of, and not to take a shot at the main roster there, but if Gargano and Almas can pull that off down on NXT, what's the fucking excuse once you get to Raw and SmackDown and you're doing pay-per-views, you know, a couple times a month?
00:59:59
Speaker
Well, I think the excuse is like, because when you look at somebody like Gargano, I mean, the first time I saw him, I mean, he was the first indie wrestler I ever saw walk through a curtain at an indie show. I mean, by the end of that match, I was like, this dude could be Daniel Bryan. He could be a replacement for Daniel Bryan. He's really likable. And I mean, I think the problem is like he's just.
01:00:22
Speaker
He's small, and I don't have an issue with that. I would love to see small guys, you know, competing against Roman Reigns, but that's, you know, it just, it doesn't seem like we're in for that.
01:00:34
Speaker
Well, and that's what's fucked up. Like there's so many things they could do potentially with 205 Live.
Challenges of Booking WWE's 205 Live
01:00:41
Speaker
I don't like having the cruiserweights quarantine to one section of the show. Well, it's like, you know, we're going to have, there's going to be a point when we have, I mean, basically everybody that's in NXT right now, like when you get Gargano up, when you get Adam Cole up, uh, Roderick Strong, I don't know if he would fit 205 Live. He's not a huge guy.
01:01:01
Speaker
But, you know, these guys could take over 205 Live and make it an amazing show if you just let them do what they do.
01:01:12
Speaker
I think that one of the, but other than just the wrestling and who's on the roster for 205 Live, the time slot for 205 Live sucks. The circumstances around when it's booked sucks. Like I can tell you, cause I, you know, you know, I went to SmackDown a couple of days after Christmas or the day after Christmas a few weeks ago.
01:01:32
Speaker
one of the issues that you have is that if they do smack down right and the main event or the last you know 10 15 minutes of the show peaks and it's a great fucking segment you run into the same issue with that that you would at a pay-per-view after a really good match which is that the match that follows it or this or the segment that follows the great match
01:01:53
Speaker
the crowd is still coming down off the high, they're not really into it. So smack down. And a lot of people are starting to go home at that point. Because when you go to a WWE taping, you are there a long time. Sure.
01:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think 205 Live suffers. If SmackDown was from eight to 10 and 205 Live was from seven to eight before SmackDown, I think it would be way better. I think the Cruiserweights would be a great way to kick off that day's tapings. Oh, that would be better than dark matches and then pre-tape it and then air it afterwards. Sure, or do something. But I think that nine to 10 slot for Cruiserweights
01:02:36
Speaker
I mean, the only thing keeping a lot of people around at that point is the dark match after 205 Live. I was gonna say, like, what dark match did they tell you to stick around for?
01:02:45
Speaker
It was Randy Orton, AJ Styles, and Shinsuke Nakamura against Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, and Jinder Mahal. And they did a lot of fun stuff where they fought up by the stage and Orton threw Sami Zayn into some Christmas trees and Christmas packages and Zayn, as Orton was walking away, chucked a Christmas package out of the fucking oblivion over there and
01:03:09
Speaker
It was, and then, uh, you know, I mean, it was fun. It's fun. And, and it wasn't a long match. I think it was maybe seven minutes tops, but you know, I think the two or five live stuff and, and God, they have a new GM.
01:03:24
Speaker
Rockstar Spud? Right. What happened? Like, I was in a spot where I'm like, Oh, I thought like Ray Mysterio's back. Get him in there. But I thought Ray, I thought Hurricane was a potential GM. Yeah, you saw that pop you got. And we get Rockstar Spud out there and the whole half the crowd was booing him and the other half was kind of silent. But when he made an announcement, it did cut to these two guys.
01:03:52
Speaker
Chanting yes, and even though the camera was close to them you could still just kind of vaguely hear it in a silent room Do you think 205 Live is gonna benefit from not having Enzo on it now? I mean other than just like the the moral ethical character issues. I mean, I don't know if it'll creatively I mean the matches might be better, but he was getting people to watch it
01:04:15
Speaker
I think we gotta get somebody big in there again. I feel like that's where Ricochet is gonna end up. And if they do get Ricochet there and let him do what he does, Ricochet could be a star in 205 Live and get people to watch. If they can bring Neville back and tell him that they're sorry. How many times do wrestlers just like, cause you saw Alberto Del Rio's like, I would come back.
01:04:45
Speaker
Like, I feel like WWE is a company that makes you apologize to them. The way I've heard it, funny enough from another Kevin Nash shoot interview I watched, was that the philosophy there is, if you wrong WWE on the way out, they get pissy with you. But they will bring you back. Just don't wrong them on the way out. Yeah, just to fuck with you when you come back.
01:05:10
Speaker
Like, I could see, and here's the thing, I have no, this is a weird tangent to go on so late in the episode, I'm not a big Alberto Del Rio fan, and I don't buy that he's sincerely sorry, I just think he wants the work. So, and Derek's of the opinion, I don't even wanna waste the time bringing him back in to fuck him. So, especially- Hey, I get where he's coming from. There was a day the other day where, just so everybody knows, I hate my job. Really hate my job a lot.
01:05:37
Speaker
And I've been not doing much because they're awful and it sucks. But there was a day that when I got home I was like, wow. It really feels like I tried to get fired today. I should be better tomorrow. And I do that a lot. I need to go in and say I'm sorry.
01:05:56
Speaker
Okay, so we're non-wrestling tangent, but a couple weeks ago, I got called into a meeting where I assumed what the topic of the meeting was gonna be, how I needed to change my hours and make my weekends available. And as I was waiting outside to meet my manager, I'm getting in my CM punk mode, I'm getting ready to cut a pipe bomb and tell everyone to fuck off and that they're not gonna do anything about it.
01:06:20
Speaker
They call me in and they do a complete 180 on me and they tell me, you've been doing good, you've been here a while, we're gonna keep everything the same. You actually have an attendance issue here that shouldn't be an issue, we're gonna take that off for you. And yeah, talk to me if you need anything, bye. And I know tonight when you get off work, you are walking out of here with the title.
Unexpected Outcomes and Personal Stories
01:06:41
Speaker
Yeah, it was a complete mind fuck. I was stunned, I had to call my girlfriend and be like, I don't know what to say, I just feel like I got worked.
01:06:50
Speaker
Do you think Randy Orton ever says that? Like, I don't know, I thought they were gonna fire me and they just won't do it. I've been trying. They believe that I broke my shoulder taking the trash out. They didn't even question it. I have to believe that there's a couple times during matches where Lesnar thinks, I could do anything I want right now and they won't do shit. Like punch Braun Strowman in the face. Well, yeah, but apparently the report is that those two are fine.
01:07:19
Speaker
The Strowman was a little stiff with him and Lesnar gave him a quick like, hey, going a little too hard, buddy. Well, what you're saying right now actually makes sense. But for Randy and Brock, where it's like Randy's like, hey, man, I don't want to come to work for the next couple of days. Just make sure I can't make it.
01:07:37
Speaker
What if that's what happened during that Lesnar Orton SummerSlam match? Well that's what I was saying. He's just like, oh man, I really regret asking him to do this. Shit. I don't know, he just lost his temper out there and I don't know why he hit me so hard and I was bleeding and I know you guys don't like blood so we stopped the match. He comes up and he's like, I walked to the back and Chris Jericho is yelling at me.
01:08:08
Speaker
I wish I could have been I wish I could have been a fly on the wall because it's not like Jericho's a little guy But the idea of Jericho like legit shoot Screaming at Lesnar up at Lesnar. I don't know what he's yelling at me for I mean I bought the last Fauzi record I don't know I just
01:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine those two walk in every day. And I'm sure there's a little bit of that attitude with Cena, right? Like maybe he doesn't express it as much, but you know in his head he quietly thinks to himself, I could just probably cinch up on a small package here and just fucking win and they won't do anything.
01:08:51
Speaker
I don't know that that's not necessarily kind of what he did to Finn Balor on fucking Raw. He was weird on Raw this week. I couldn't tell if he was actually mad at the crowd or if he was just kind of playing around and then he too sweeted all of us and it was weird.
01:09:09
Speaker
Yeah, but hey, man. Yeah, we've been going quite a while. I was going to get the fuck out of here. What are we doing out here? We're still out here. This is the longest match ever. Yeah, this is this is a long match. I think it's time to cut this down. Hey, everybody that's been listening. We just in that one day, we got a lot of people listening. It seems like you guys have been spreading it around. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. If you have friends that like wrestling.
01:09:33
Speaker
Send it their way. Don't keep this a secret. We want people to hear this. We want you to come hang out with us. Follow us on the social medias. At Wrestle Hangout on Twitter. At Predetermined Podcast on Instagram. I am at Gartet on Instagram and Twitter as well.
01:09:51
Speaker
and I am at Halloween Halpin on Twitter. Seriously, we encourage you guys to share this podcast with your friends, get our name out there, help us out, subscribe to the podcast, give us a rating. Help get us over, man. Are you gonna mark out for us? Mark out. Mark out for us, man. Get us over.
01:10:07
Speaker
Don't be a cuck. Hit us up on social media, please. We'd love to hear from you. It would really encourage the hell out of us if we heard from you, so. Yeah, thanks for listening. I want to see people start getting on this Facebook page, too. Let's get on there and share some stuff on there. You know what? Get on there. Show me what wrestling you watched this week.
01:10:26
Speaker
Share your favorite matches, all that kind of stuff with us. I am willing to watch anything and talk about anything involving wrestling. YouTube is an amazing piece of technology, man. You want to get on there and shoot the shit about Total Divas with me? Let's fucking do it. But either way, I think I just heard the bell. That was the bell, right? Yeah, that was the bell, dude. We gotta get the fuck out of here. We gotta get the fuck out of here. All right, that is time for you to hit my ding-dang music. Have a good week, everybody. Bye, everyone.