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Episode 170: "The Last of Us" S2's Episode 5-6 Review
52 Plays8 days ago
🎙️ New Episode Alert! 🎮🍿
This week on The Popcorn Podcast, Tommy and Ryan delve deep into the emotional and narrative complexities of The Last of Us Season 2, Episodes 5 and 6. Prepare for an intense discussion on character development, moral dilemmas, and the evolving dynamics between Joel and Ellie.
🎧 Episode Highlights:
The Last of Us S2E5: "Feel Her Love"
Ellie and Dina's journey intensifies as they navigate the treacherous landscapes of Seattle. The episode showcases their deepening bond, marked by shared confessions and harrowing encounters. A pivotal moment arises when Ellie confronts Nora in a spore-infested hospital, leading to a chilling interrogation that underscores Ellie's descent into vengeance.
The Last of Us S2E6: "The Price"
A poignant flashback episode that fills the five-year gap between Seasons 1 and 2. Viewers witness the evolving relationship between Joel and Ellie through annual snapshots of Ellie's birthdays. The episode culminates in a heart-wrenching revelation about Joel's past actions, forcing Ellie to grapple with feelings of betrayal and the complexities of love and sacrifice.
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Transcript
Episode Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back everyone the Popcorn Podcast. I'm Tommy Cresta. Not alongside me for this episode. My co-host Ryan Fran. we We're doing this one virtually. And that's because I'm healing from my surgery currently.
00:00:12
Speaker
And um I'm still a little loopy off my paint medicine. I really can't walk yet. So I'm still on crutches. It's just a little bit of a pain to get up and down the steps. So that's why we're virtual for today's episode.
The Last of Us: Episodes 5-6 Analysis
00:00:24
Speaker
But we're here to talk about episodes 5 and 6 of The Last of Us. I think that's it. That's all I have. Okay. Yeah, we haven't watched anything else, right? No, I haven't.
00:00:36
Speaker
Yeah. I forgot we didn't do five yet. I kind of yeah forgot about I didn't plan on that. So, well, before we get into that, Ryan, how you doing? Not bad. Not bad. got back from my ah but big, long adventure.
00:00:48
Speaker
Oh, I forgot about that. How'd it go? My adventure. It went and went fine. Just lot driving. Driving them be so tired after from Naples to Philly. It was kind of... It was fun.
00:01:00
Speaker
The car was great, though. was a nice Acura MDX. Oh, it was an Acura? Yeah, it was very nice. Where'd you go? but how's How's your week been? hot
00:01:13
Speaker
Just been trying to hang in there while this pain medicine does its job. Yeah, fair enough. Shit.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm trying to fix my desktop that I can read my notes still look at the camera. Oh, okay.
00:01:29
Speaker
No. Don't want to close out. Okay, there we go. I don't see myself. Perfect. Move that over. All right. Okay. so episode five of The Last of Us was titled Feel Her Love. It was directed by Stephen Williams, written by Craig Mazin.
00:01:46
Speaker
It was only 45 minutes. um It did fear to your apparel jam song. Did it? Present tense. Um, and so I went like, I wanted to see like the viewer numbers. Cause I wanted to see like if it's dropped off with, pet without Pedro Pascal in there.
00:02:04
Speaker
And this episode only shows only put in 652,000, which I know is a lot of people. That's a huge drop off to the numbers that the other episodes got. Yeah. For a nine o'clock HBO, like that's the primetime show right now.
00:02:17
Speaker
That is not good at all. That is horrible. No, it is not. A quick plot summary. Ellie and Dina embark on their second day in Seattle, navigating through a hospital filled with infected to confront Nora, a member of the Washington Liberation Front.
00:02:31
Speaker
This episode delves into Ellie's transformation, showcasing her going more into the side of possibly being the villain of the series. It depends on which side do you guys view. We're trying to find out more about Abby's whereabouts and yeah, get to learn more about the scars a couple of stuff in between.
00:02:49
Speaker
And then a nice little surprise ending, which I was not expecting, which I completely forgot was going to happen. Yeah. Dude, that happened, and I watched it with my dad, and he was like, wait, what the fuck? if just He was like, what happened?
00:03:04
Speaker
was like, no worries. This is flashbacks. It's okay. um But yeah, before I give my points, it seems like you have a more... Oh, you were more talking about episode six. Yeah. I thought episode five was fine.
00:03:15
Speaker
but thought it was like you know it was decent. I think... Again, I was kind of saying it the last time we talked. was like I'm just not enjoying this season as much as I did the first one. I don't know. like I like the second game. Funny enough, I literally, as you texted me, like, all right, just do it virtually.
00:03:31
Speaker
I literally finished the second game again five minutes ago. So it's it's pretty fresh. um But don't I thought this episode was pretty good. Five was was pretty good.
00:03:43
Speaker
i kind of wish, don't know, the way they brought Jesse back, was kind of It wasn't bad, but again, just how the game does it where they were looking for Tommy in the first place, and then Jesse shows up, and he's like, oh yeah, I came with Tommy, but we got split
Character Development and Pacing Issues
00:03:58
Speaker
up somehow.
00:03:58
Speaker
It's like, all right, how? What happened? What happened there? Because in the game, Jesse comes after Ellie and Dina, who are already after Tommy. so you know Yeah, but Jesse was just there already.
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah, jesse Jesse came after them, but then now it's like Jesse and Tommy came at the same time, but then somehow got split up somehow. Well, they chose to split up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did say that, but it's still funny how like, oh, he just found them.
00:04:26
Speaker
know Yeah, I know. I was thinking about that. Like I thought that they were going to find them at like in the building. Cause I thought maybe he would think like, oh they're going try and get to the, yeah. Or like he's trying to get to them already. Just that the way that he found it was just so out in the middle nowhere.
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. like Then that is some crazy luck. Yeah. Super lucky as they're getting attacked by the stalkers. Which were great, by the way. Dude, i do like that shot of the two of them? Yeah. It's creepy as fuck. was really cool.
00:04:51
Speaker
I love the Stalkers. Stalkers. I wonder if we're going get any of the Shamblers ever. I think we'll get in the next season. I think we will, too. Because we do get a couple of them in Ellie's story in the game, but they're more prevalent, a little bit more prevalent in Abby's side of the game. Yeah.
00:05:07
Speaker
No, I agree. I think the biggest issue right now is time and how much time we have left. yeah But I guess when you know it's another season, maybe there's two seasons.
00:05:19
Speaker
um I agree. Season one, definitely for me, it's just a better series. it just yeah Because I think their chemistry is what makes it so good, the first season.
00:05:30
Speaker
And not that I don't think Bella Ramsey can't lead the show. i'm not taking it I really liked her performances in these two episodes specifically. It's just I feel like their dynamic is what makes the first season so great.
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, for losing that. Pedro Pascal, yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people have had praise for Isabella Merced Bella Ramsey's.
00:05:53
Speaker
the What's the word just said? Performance. Performance, but the together, um you just said it. Chemistry? with my mind Chemistry, thank you. they um People are saying theirs is really good, and I think it's good, but I don't i haven't seen it as good as people have been saying it's been.
00:06:11
Speaker
And it's certainly not as good as Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal's. So I think having the show kind of be carried by that these past couple episodes just isn't working as well for me. Again, I don't think they have bad chemistry at all, but I just don't, you know, it's not as strong as it was in the first season.
00:06:26
Speaker
um Yeah. But this episode just kind of like, it was was pretty cookie cutter. I think all these episodes have kind of felt the same where it's it's a lot of downtime and then a little bit of action.
00:06:39
Speaker
And the action hasn't been super exciting yet. I thought this was kind of fun when they were when they were fighting the Stalkers. It was good. And then that little scene towards the end when they're running away. It's pretty good. but yeah i i I said in my note, I said that this is five for me was more of a return to form for the show compared to the last two episodes before this.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah. I think three and four my least favorite of the entire series so far. Okay. And I'll explain why. i I really like six, but I'll explain my biggest issue was six when we get there. Kind of falls in the same thing as the second last episode last season.
00:07:12
Speaker
It just kills the pacing. Yeah, because I think that would have really cool way to start the season. and so That's exactly what I thought. Yeah. If you're going to do it as one. Yeah, so did I. Throws off the whole pacing.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah, I thought the same thing last night when I watched it. is like If you're going to make all of either do the flashbacks like they are in the game, just like intercut throughout Ellie's story. Or if you're going to do them all in one episode, put it at the beginning. Put it like the first or second episode so that you know we feel like we have more time with Joel. I think doing it like this and just dropping it right at the end of the season, it just, like you said, it was the same as last season when they did the ah Left Behind DLC in one episode.
00:07:51
Speaker
It's just, it's good episode, but it kind of just killed the pacing. Like we were, we finished that episode on ah on a high note, on an action scene, and then we're ready like, oh, next episode. We're going to get some more action. We're going to see what happens. And then it's just like, no.
00:08:05
Speaker
Nope, you're going to wait another the week. right that's what Because I really do think that if you did that this episode first, well, episode six first, and then followed the rest of the story, it gives you more time to follow everything.
00:08:18
Speaker
you don't And everyone gets to feel the Joel death more. Like people who didn't play the games, they get more about what happened and why. Because I feel like for people who didn't really the games,
00:08:30
Speaker
<unk> I mean, you know that Joel did something bad, but this let you see what else was wrong. Like the Eugene part, I feel like was a huge thing to not put into the end of the season. Yeah.
00:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, agree. First off, I think the difference between like people can say like, oh, yeah, but you you feel so connected to Joel throughout the show. And like, I agree. You do connect to Joel, but it's very different between watching a show and playing a game where the show we get, you know, eight hours with Pedro Pascal in the first season.
00:09:00
Speaker
That's our connection. You play the game, you get 15 hours being Joel. It's very different how you connect to these characters. So I think if you had put episode six towards the beginning, given people who, like you said, didn't play the game, just watch the show, that little bit of extra time to connect with that character again, I think it would have helped for sure.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah. And I, I will say I thought the whole sequence with Nora was a really good scene because for a second i was like, Oh wow. Nora's really nice talking about Joel. And she's like, that son of a bitch guy. I was like, yeah oh, I forgot.
Ethical Decisions and Character Themes
00:09:32
Speaker
forgot I mean, that whole scene was just taken exactly from the game. Yeah, from the game. Like shop or shot for shot, almost. And it was cool seeing the seeing it being airborne now, the spores.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. And it was so cool hearing everyone like when she's running away from the gunfire, they're like, oh, we need to clear like this hallway now. Like we got to close everything off because they know that the spores are down there and everything.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And then just watching, I thought that was one of the strongest scenes for Bella Ramsey. Was that whole sequence with Nora. Yeah. felt like Because like i never as much as I love her performance, I never really feel like the Ellie from the game where it's like true angers coming out.
00:10:13
Speaker
But it felt I could see it more in her in this one. So it makes me more excited to see some more of the stuff with her. And it gave me more confidence in Bella Ramsey. And I did listen to the last of us version of take on me for like 20 minutes today. I'm very sad.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But like like you were saying in in the game too, that is the moment where you're like, you're playing as Ellie and you're kind of going through the game. Like, Oh, she's kind of, you know, grown up. She's doing worse shit. She's fucking up more people. She's a little more ruthless.
00:10:42
Speaker
But then that point in the game is like, Oh no, she's just mean now. Like she's not, It's not like she's there's no mercy anymore. She's just going to kill everybody she has to. And I think Bell Ramsey did a pretty decent job of that in that scene.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I thought I really loved the red light with it. Which, I mean, it was straight from the shot. of yeah Yeah, exactly. And what else did want about? There was something else had in my notes.
00:11:06
Speaker
o I do kind of wish we got that scene. i always loved that scene after that. when um when allie In the game, when Ellie gets back to the theater and Dean is like, cleaning her up after all that that might open it might open with that what was that i can't remember i i just said i just played the game i played that part of the game like a week ago i kind of forget already but was that after the nora stuff or was that after the first time she sees the scars which we just saw at the end of episode five so don't remember no this is i think that's after she kills nora okay i thought so but i just couldn't remember exactly her coming back from killing nora yeah so i feel like that might be the opening
00:11:46
Speaker
Where does that put you at, though? trying to think where that puts you at for the finale. Into day three. So, I mean, that would be going into the day three. Yeah.
00:11:58
Speaker
I'm excited to see stuff about Tommy that goes to Seattle. I i have a feeling that's to really fun in season three. Yeah, i agree. Because I really am excited to see more Caitlyn Dever, and I think they've done a good job. kalin Right, Caitlyn Dever?
00:12:10
Speaker
Yeah. I think some people say Dever. I think it's Dever. I don't know. I'm excited to see. I feel like that they haven't really shown her again since the end of episode two, right? ah Yeah.
00:12:22
Speaker
So I feel like it's nice that we don't see her. And then I do think it's going a little jarring for people when the next season I have a feeling is really going to be Abby. Little bit of Ellie. Lots of Abby.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the end is going to have to be Ellie again. Yeah. I think they'll go back to that. Yeah. But they also said this could outgo the show, the game.
00:12:43
Speaker
They could, but I don't, when they say that, I don't think they mean this story. I think they mean extending the story past the second game. Yeah, I think it's Tommy's story more of anything. Yeah, I think that could be right. We'll see how much they fuck him up in the show versus the game, though.
00:12:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, he's definitely going to get some. He's going to do some damage. Yeah, we'll well, we'll see next episode, I guess. Yeah. yeah um I think the Scar people are so
Pacing Concerns Towards Finale
00:13:12
Speaker
creepy.
00:13:13
Speaker
yeah I love how they kill people when they cut them over and everything just falls out. Yeah. Does that see the guy blood in this? What part? when she When he first cuts her... Oh, is that... Yeah, it's fine.
00:13:26
Speaker
He cuts the dude open and it looked it just looked weird when he like opens up. I mean, it could have been. I'm not sure. don't know. could have been the way that the lights were. Yeah.
00:13:38
Speaker
um
00:13:43
Speaker
But yeah, I was... I liked the episode and I'm was really excited to, cause I can completely forgot where we were. And cause I mean, I haven't played the game in two years now.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. And so, so when I saw Joel and I was like, Oh, we're going get the this is where the dinosaur stuff is. And I thought that whole, I thought episode six was great and I loved it.
00:14:06
Speaker
It's just when I got to the end, i was like, okay, amazing episode by itself. Where is that taking us for the rest of this? We don't have an episode now. To wrap up part one of the two parts to the two seasons now.
00:14:21
Speaker
And i i really just wish... I think we talked about that with the last one. Last season when they did the flashback episode. yeah it just It just totally killed the pacing.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, that one... I feel like that one might be a little worse than this one is going to be. I guess we'll find out next Sunday. But, I mean... yeah yeah And it's tough to say because we also keep praising episode three of the first season which is the best episode of the show so far the um bill and which one uh actually yeah never mind i forgot episode two of this season episode two this season was amazing yeah no it was it was pretty great if i misspoke um but i think like maybe if i rewatched that season you could say okay that episode also killed a little bit of pacing dude i feel like that one it was so early on yeah that's what i was gonna say like it doesn't
00:15:10
Speaker
it's all It's early enough where the story's still kind of getting moving, so you have the time to kind of expand this world and show a different perspective, versus this episode six and last season's episode seven, I think it was, where it's just smack dab in the middle of, you know, we're getting ready for the finale, and then there's just the fucking halts.
00:15:29
Speaker
So, yeah. I don't know. It's just such a weird placement to do, especially two seasons in a row. Yeah. And that was, I feel, a pretty big... baby Yeah, it was a pretty – like people complained about it last season. And they were like, all right, we're going to do it again. We're going to do it again. Yeah.
00:15:44
Speaker
It was kind of weird. Yeah, i because i I genuinely think Six is one of my – like if I'm just looking at like quality of episode, it's one of my favorite episodes because I just loved seeing their relationship fall apart.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I love Pedro. I think Pedro Pascal in that when he has to finally tell the truth, that was truly heartbreaking to me. Like when he finally figures out, like he, when she's like, this is it.
00:16:08
Speaker
And when she says, she's like, I don't know if I can forgive you for this. And I, you just see it on his face. was like, God damn it. Yeah. I mean, both. I want to try. I was yes. Yeah. Both of them were incredible in that scene.
00:16:19
Speaker
And I also love the opening scene that they added with ah Joel's dad. His dad. I wrote about it. And then he and says the same line at the very end. Yeah. Tony Dalton as Joel's dad was a very good decision.
00:16:30
Speaker
Yeah. That guy just keeps showing up and shit. yeah He got Better Call Saul, and everybody loved him, and he just got Hulk Guy, less but like he's just... Daredevil? Yeah, Daredevil. Well, same character from Hulk Guy, but... Yeah, but he's just showing up in TV series.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah. I would love if he keeps showing up in those MCU shows. It's just like little things. Well, now he's captured. Yeah, he is. Maybe he'll be in the Punisher thing. Oh my god, him and just Punisher just murdering people?
00:16:57
Speaker
Do you have anything you want to add episode 5? Um... um I mean, and again, I kind of thought it was pretty cookie cutter. Like, i don't want to say like cookie cutter that much, because but it just kind of felt samey as all the other episodes so far, which haven't been great in general. I feel like it's just, it's a lot of downtime and then a flash of action.
00:17:21
Speaker
And the action hasn't been as exciting as it probably should be yet. Yeah. And I still think that's like, I love Bella Ramsey's Ellie. But she just doesn't carry that same, like, she she doesn't have that presence of an action star. She's just not.
00:17:35
Speaker
You know what mean? That's why I hope they give us, like, a scene where we get to see her do that. Yeah. She might not have the look of it, but if she can do it, then I'll, yeah I can let it go. Like, she did fight that one guy in, what was it, episode three or four? Oh, yeah, I wanted more of that.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, like, that was fine. that She made that work. But then, you know, even with Nora, like, yeah, she killed Nora, but Nora could not defend herself whatsoever. Like, she didn't, She hasn't done anything yet where she's like taking somebody down or, you know, showing her strength at all.
00:18:05
Speaker
But we might be getting that. i mean, we should be soon. Yeah.
Comparative Analysis with 'Andor'
00:18:09
Speaker
Hopefully they show something in this episode coming up. um Going on from that, we go into episode seven six, which is called The Price, ah directed by Neil Druckmann, also written by Neil Druckmann, Craig Mazin, Haley Gross.
00:18:23
Speaker
ah This one was an hour long, especially going off of an episode that was 45 minutes long right before that. Yeah. ah We got Future Days by Pedro Pascal, which people really like in the game, Troy Baker. And the view count jumped up to 775,000. Yeah. so people knew Pascal was coming back.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah. But I will say, like, because I watched the trailer for this at the end of the last episode. Obviously, the the end of the last episode leaned into, you know, what what this episode was going to be.
00:18:53
Speaker
This is the least I look forward to an episode the whole season. so I don't even think I thought. thought about when I turned it on today. Yeah. Because once I realized that they were, once I watched the trailer and i was like, oh, it's another flashback episode.
00:19:07
Speaker
I, last night, i was just like, um don't even remember what I was doing, but I was like, oh yeah, it's Sunday. I guess Last of Us is coming out. I'll watch that. Whereas like the last couple weeks I've been like, oh, it's Sunday. I'll watch Last of Us tonight. It's going to be fun. i just kind of remembered last minute and i was like, yeah, I guess I can watch that.
00:19:23
Speaker
i did the last two weeks. I didn't watch five or six. And I think it was because um Overall, just a little disappointed with the season. But I and I feel like maybe subconsciously, like I was excited to see Joel again because I love Peter Pascal as Joel.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah, I love their dynamic. But I feel like there was just a part of me that was like, oh. It felt like a chore turning it on because I was going to do it the last three days. Watch episode five and I just never turned it on.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah. I'm happy I did because I really did enjoy this episode. I just my biggest gripe is that it was at the end of a season where it feels like the season hasn't moved. move Sorry, that sounded weird. Moved.
00:20:02
Speaker
um It didn't move far enough along to where. Well, it's getting to the point, but I feel like what you're saying, it feels like the game too much where it's the game's long. So there's going to in like.
00:20:13
Speaker
riding the horse around there's gonna be downtime that's the point of the games yeah in the show i feel like you need to cut some of that and get to some of the other stuff yeah because there's yeah what is it's 36 hours to 100 the last of us two don't even know i remember i looked uh when i started playing it again i looked at my hours played on playstation i think it was like 21 hours i took to beat the game the first time and that was just going through it like i didn't i i missed a lot of shit but um ah Fred Warner staying with the Niners three years.
00:20:43
Speaker
I hate him. He's so good, um though. 43 hours. 43 hours, yeah. Wild. so you i i just So let's just say do two seven-upseed seasons.
00:21:00
Speaker
That only gives you 14 hours, and you're trying to close all this down. There's a lot you have to cut, and it felt like they didn't do enough. Like, I was excited when they added the whole Battle for Jackson.
00:21:10
Speaker
Because I was like, oh, they're changing it up enough to give... And they're adding action. Yeah. Which is good. I was kind hoping they were going more of that. Yeah, for sure. Also, you say seven-episode season, two seven-episode seasons, that's 14 hours.
00:21:24
Speaker
It's really not. because Yeah, because they don't do all hour episodes. Because episode five 45 minutes. This one had the least action, and it was an hour long. And listen, I understand the main thing of this show is...
00:21:36
Speaker
Ellie and you know Joel's relationship and then Ellie and Dina's relationship. what It's a very character driven show. But at the same time, it's still an action show to an extent. And I think you need to add more action to it. It doesn't need to be just balls to the walls constant the whole time. I'm not saying that at all. That's not how the games are.
00:21:54
Speaker
But even like I look back to what um Neil Druckmann said in one of the like the after the show, the behind the scenes the behind the scenes clips. He was talking about episode three where the whole episode is kind of just mourning Joel, right? And getting ready to go to Seattle.
00:22:10
Speaker
And he was saying like, because of the show, we have a lot more time to mourn Joel. And because the game is so action oriented, you kind of have to like quickly get through that to get to some action, to get to some gameplay.
00:22:23
Speaker
But I think he probably said like, all right, with the show, we have these great actors who are going to play these characters. Maybe we can slow it down a little bit and show more of the characterization because we don't have, you know,
00:22:34
Speaker
antsy video game players who just want to get to the action and do something, you know, themselves, which makes sense. But I feel like they've taken that a little bit too far where they've gone fully, maybe a little, not fully, but too far in the sense of let's just do character stuff and leave out the action.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think they've left out too much action from the games into the show where yeah you have moments where like, yeah I'll be watching something and be like, okay, they just skipped that whole scene or they just cut it and, you know, wrote around it. But so much of these episodes have been so character driven that you kind of forget that you're watching a fucking post-apocalyptic yeah action zombie show. Like, you know, you know what i mean? It just, and I like the characters still. I, I, I still, both of us will always defend Bella Ramsey. still think she's good.
00:23:24
Speaker
Like I said, I don't think she brings the physicality as Ellie
Exploring Overarching Themes
00:23:27
Speaker
yet. At least I think, you know, that one, the one or two fight scenes she's had, which she was, she was okay. And she was pretty believable, but she hasn't shown it enough yet.
00:23:36
Speaker
But, you know, I like Dina's actress. I like, you know, uh, Tommy's act. Like I like them all, but I just think we need a little bit more action and i'm I'm hoping we get that in this finale, but yeah, I just, not maybe that's what they're trying to do is like they're do the character study stuff and then get into season three and just go for the action.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't hope so. Cause, cause, Abby's part of the game is much more action-based. like It really It is violent. Yeah, especially because, I mean, you know immediately. When you switch to Abby, and you get you start off with like four different guns and a fucking semi-auto rifle. You're like, what am I in for? You're like, oh this is a lot more. It just goes immediately. But, um yeah, I don't know.
00:24:19
Speaker
ah It just hasn't been enough action for me yet. And, i'm not again, I'm not saying I need this to be a flat-out action show. That's not what I'm saying. I like the character stuff. I just feel like there's a little there's not enough balance to character versus action.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um As we were talking about this episode, Primus focuses and centers on Joel and Ellie's relationship after we left off them at season one and follows them through Ellie's birthday for four birthdays? 16, 17, 18, 19? Yeah, I think it was three or four.
00:24:53
Speaker
No, it was 15, 16, 17, 19. fifteen sixteen seventeen nineteen
00:24:59
Speaker
I thought there were only three of them. Because it's the one... 17 is when she's hooking up with the girl. No, so he got he got the one cake that he misspelled and said Eli. that's the same one when they go see the dinosaur, isn't it?
Emotional Impact of Episode 6
00:25:11
Speaker
Yeah. And then the chocolate cake that said Ellie, and that's when she was hooking up with what's her name. And then the one then one after. Yeah, so there was three. Because the one skip is two years, not one. Yeah, I thought forgot that the guitar one and the dinosaur one is the same birthday.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, That whole... I really loved that... scene at with them at the museum. yeah And you can see like Joel just loves Ellie. Like it's it's so undeniable how much he cares for this person. Especially when he lost after losing his own daughter. It's so hard for a parent to continue on.
00:25:42
Speaker
And that he was pretty much that to him this is his second chance. yeah And it was just such a nice scene. The fact, first off, love the whole astronaut scene. Where did this man find that tape?
00:25:53
Speaker
Oh yeah, no. the Where did he find that? And then He happened to find the right tape for the ah the cassette player that Ellie had. Yeah, like everything just worked perfectly. Yeah, I would believe that there's a tape of that in that museum. I'm sure there was you know some PA system and that would just play that for kids. Oh yeah, maybe that's how he got it.
00:26:12
Speaker
But also, ah did he like record it onto that cassette? It'd be like, this perfect. like how did that Where did he find all the things to record it on? I don't know. um But I love that scene when they're actually in the spaceship and you can just see how much it means to her and him.
00:26:25
Speaker
yeah um But it was really sad watching as their relationship does crumble and it all leads to pretty much the confrontation with Eugene, which it was really cool to see because you don't play that in the game, right?
00:26:38
Speaker
No, that's not in the game at all. Yeah, I forget. dont you they they don't I don't think Joel kills him in the game. Or at least they never say it. that Yeah, I know he's dead in the game because he's yeah the marijuana thing is his.
00:26:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's just in the game. show That's it. In the game, yeah. You go – because you go to his – the weed place with Dina, and then you find a picture of him, and it's just like, oh, yeah, he was a firefly with Tommy.
00:27:00
Speaker
Too bad he died. That's that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because his wife's not in the game. Yeah, no, there's no – what is it, Gail? Yeah, Gail is a great addition to the show. Every time – she is so funny. Yeah, she's been great. She's like, do I have a fucking doctor's inside above my head like the peanuts?
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah. I thought it was a good line. Um, but yeah, that whole scene. And when he, he's like, I promise. I was sitting wide. was like, Joel, come on, dude. Yeah. could Just digging a grave.
00:27:27
Speaker
But cause I, I will say I've never had any problem with any of the killings he's done. That one I had a little bit of a problem with. I mean, could they have gotten him back in time?
00:27:41
Speaker
i mean, Ellie, wouldn't Ellie have the best thing on that? Well, what do you mean? Because she would... The reason she did that, because that's what she has her friend do, right? no I think that was one of the Fedra things, is like, count to ten, whatever. yeah. Because they killed a little kid. yeah, yeah. the star that sees show start how the show starts.
00:28:03
Speaker
The show starts out with two children dying. Oh, my God. And then Jolt of the body and the fire. yeah, yeah. God.
00:28:14
Speaker
um Yeah, I think... play I was waiting for when um when Joel told her to get the horses, I was waiting for her to say, like, no, you get the horses. If he bites me, then it's not a big deal.
00:28:25
Speaker
Like, I was waiting for her to say that. She was like, okay. Like, she wasn't happy to do it, but she just kind of agreed. Because she was trying to see. if I feel like that was, like, her being like, can I still trust Joel? Like, is he going to? Yeah.
00:28:36
Speaker
And he just didn't do what she thought she wanted him to do. But i don't I don't know. I don't see it as that bad because could they have maybe gotten him back in time? Maybe, you know, and just left him out. Like you like his like he had that plan, he said.
00:28:48
Speaker
Just have him outside the wall, keep him apart, but just let him get his final word out. Maybe he could have gotten there. Or maybe he would have turned halfway through and, you know, don't know. but they're just going kill anyway. Well, yeah, but they're going to kill him anyway. But what if he turns halfway through? Like, is he going to walk next to the horses?
00:29:06
Speaker
What do you mean? They said they they were going to tie him up. Well... A, do they have the stuff tie him up? Because if you tie him up and have him on the back of somebody's horse, do you have some way to gag him so he doesn't bite? Because what if he's on the back of Joel's horse and he bites Joel without him realizing he turned? I feel like they drag the dead body.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm saying like tie him up and have him. If he's on the back of one of their horses, if it's Joel's horse. He just goes out and he bites Joel and it's done. Yeah, why not put her on the back of Ellie's horse that point? Because if he bites Ellie's neck, and she's still going to die. She's not immune from bleeding out. Like it's not – she's still fucked.
00:29:39
Speaker
You're right. You're right. You've changed my opinion. You're right I think it was – you know, Ellie trying to be nice was like, yeah, we can bring him back. But Joel being a realist was like, nah, we got it. Nah. It's already – he knows what has to happen. He's just – you know, he's just sad.
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah. I think like anybody else, if that was anybody else besides him, who just, he happened to have a wife. If it was somebody who was single, they'd be like, yeah, this sucks. Sorry. Can you shoot me now? Like, cause we saw it earlier in the battle of Jackson in episode two, you see that you don't see it on screen, but you see the guy hand somebody the gun, in like the corner of the screen, just shoot. And can see the the flash. Yeah.
00:30:15
Speaker
And Joel says like, we have rules. So everybody, everybody in Jackson knows the rules. If you get bit, sorry, buddy, you just, you're done. You know? Yeah. So, i don't I don't have a problem with how Joel did it. And I think, I think Joel, if anything, he did it in a pretty nice way. He brought him to a pretty good view. And he's like, listen, just think of your wife. Sorry. And then, but you know, I did like that where he's like, if you truly love someone, you can always see them.
00:30:37
Speaker
Yeah. it's like Oh, cause he sees Sarah every time he looks at Ellie. Yeah. I think, you know, if there's a nice way to do it, he did it in a pretty nice way, but it's quick. He probably didn't feel it.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah. And Joel doesn't feel good about it. You see later when he, when he brings them back and Gail season, he's, he's, fucking distraught. He didn't want to do that, but shit happens. It's a tough world, man. Yeah.
00:30:59
Speaker
How many people do we think Joel's killed?
00:31:03
Speaker
It's gotta be... Hundreds? Probably... Yeah, I'd say like 200 at least. God! I don't know. That's a lot people. Maybe not that many, but you gotta think he was a ray a um bandit or raider, whatever you want to call it for while. wasn't a raider.
00:31:17
Speaker
He was a Firefly. Fedra? Oh, he was never a Firefly. Who would he work with? He worked for someone. Him and Tommy did something. I think he said he and Tommy were Raiders, and then Tommy um it was a Firefly for a little bit. he was Joel was never a Firefly. Oh, yeah. Tommy left you Joel and then joined the Firefly.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah. He was a Raider for a bit, and then he got to Boston and was doing the smuggler. No, he was a smuggler. He was just a smuggler, but he wasn't always in Boston, I think was the thing.
00:31:45
Speaker
So he was smuggling shit all around, and then he, you know. because you see him, you know, he goes to Bill's place, Bill and Frank. there's no no tell And it's like 10 years before whatever.
00:31:56
Speaker
And it's, you know, so who knows how many people he ran into, you know, and then you get that scene of him, the famous scene from the game as well, when they're driving through and the guy walks out, he's like, nah, put your seatbelt on, Ellie.
00:32:07
Speaker
And then he just drives through them on the motherfucker like, he knows he knew that wast tra well yeah He knew that was a trap because he's probably done it before. like He's not a good man. that's That's what makes him such a great character. is He's a piece of shit who just finds a little bit of humanity.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, because he that's I feel like that's a huge part of this. It's one of the underlying themes of The Last of Us is that these people are doing bad things, but they're doing it because of their situations. it doesn't make them bad people.
00:32:34
Speaker
Yeah, the world fucking sucks. Yeah. this You can go, yeah. Yeah, there you can go to a ah ah city with Fedra and just be fucking have zero rights. Or you can live on your own and probably die in some horrible way.
00:32:47
Speaker
You can be a fucking raider and just murder people. Or you can be... Yeah, or you can you know you can join like the Scars, which you know maybe it's nice, but you know they they got their own little quirks to them. And then you know what we'll see later.
00:33:02
Speaker
i just play it i just finished the next game, so you got like the Rattlers at the very end of the game. or just enslaving people. Like, it's just, there's fucked up shit going on, man. There's no good way to go. Yeah. If you can be like those people, remember the the couple they ran into just living in that cabin in the first season? Oh yeah. Yeah. Like that's, that's the best possible outcome. You just go to a mountain and just live. Yeah. You just die somewhere. You just die alone. You're fine.
00:33:26
Speaker
It's the best possible outcome. outcome I forgot about that. Yeah. That was the bad. I remember when the guy was like, she gonna shoot us he's like no he's like right cool i guess like it was so straightforward yeah they were both like all right do you need anything they was like no just directions they're like okay i'm going on that way great um so i was talking i wrote down when i was um doing my notes i said that this episode stood out to me as a powerful entry uh due to some outstanding performances by bella ramsey and pedro pascal their emotional depth and their ability to convey
00:34:01
Speaker
ah trauma that the trauma and love for each other that they have, the trauma they've endured, I guess, would be the right way to say, and the love that they have for one another.
Character-Driven Storytelling
00:34:09
Speaker
But just seeing their relation fall apart because of Joe's lie was just a really sad thing to watch. But then it was really nice to, like, add in a whole scene with his dad, and you learn why his dad beat on him, how his dad got beat.
00:34:23
Speaker
And then using the same line at the end was just a way to be like, ha-ha, remember how sad this is? Stab you in the heart a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that That brought it home for me because I watched that first scene and was, again, like, why are we at – I got to learn to just trust Craig Mays and Neil Druckmann a little bit more. Because every time I'm like – every time they add something, I'm like, why are we adding shit and cutting the shit that I want to see from the games?
00:34:44
Speaker
And then they circled back and just said the line at the end. I was like, all right. I get it. It was really good. like Yeah, it was really fucking good. um Yeah, I think this episode is rich in heartbreaking and introspect – inter – introspective moments in the direction makes space for there's enough time for to let every one of the birthdays settle and you feel how much Ellie is starting to resent Joel and how much Joel can feel that starting because feel like every time you see him leave her room there's a little bit like something's wrong and then by the end it's there's nothing left for them it feels like until we get to when they want to
00:35:26
Speaker
figure of everything out. And then the motherfucker dies.
00:35:32
Speaker
what What is it? Like two days later? yeah. Not long. And it is like, it makes that scene even more heartbreaking. And you know, in the show, in the game, cause it's like, they end off on this.
00:35:43
Speaker
Well, they end off like low, but decent. Cause Ellie says, I, I don't think I can forgive you, but I'd like to try. yeah then as soon as Joel's actually in trouble and he's dying, then Ellie's just crying and screaming for him. So like,
00:35:57
Speaker
you know she always loved him. She was always going to love him. She always cared about him. She was never going to hate him forever. But it's just, to find that out in that way is the worst thing possible. And the fact that she felt like her life had no meaning.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah. And the one thing that gave her life meaning was taken away without her decision. Yeah. But um overall, I think The Price is a beautifully crafted episode, emotionally resonant, masterfully acted.
00:36:23
Speaker
But again, being where it is kind of hurts it at the same time because this is... Just hear your mom screaming.
00:36:34
Speaker
She's such a loud woman. um But timing the season could have implication for how effectively the series lands its conclusion. Well, season lands its conclusion. Yeah, yeah,
00:36:45
Speaker
She's such a loud woman. She is. It was funny how homophobic Joel was when ah when he walked in on and Oh, yeah. Because was not happy. you could die It skips for two years later. It skips two years later and he was like, it's okay. Yeah, because he wasn't, don't think he told, he didn't know any better. He's southern boy in Texas and at the time. Yeah, he was still like a girl. I was like, that's what worried about? Yeah.
00:37:09
Speaker
yeah He was like, you don't, no, but he literally was like, you're experimenting one thing, but with a girl. And he was like, Oh yeah, I forgot. yeah You don't know what you're talking at the end. Cause he walked in at first and was like, she's 17, you're 19. I was like, okay, reasonable deb debate reasonable to be upset.
00:37:25
Speaker
Very reasonable. And then he's like, with a girl? I'm like, damn, Joe, what the fuck? I did like with Lion, where she's like, the tattoo looked better when it's filled in. And he like looks at he's like, that's not what I'm worried about. Oh, yeah, he's like, all right, Holly.
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah, that was fun. Holly has some great posters on her walls, too. She's got some good grunge bands. Yeah. Two Nirvana posters as well. Yeah, i like the Kurt Cobain flipping off on the outside of the doors. Yeah. Like...
00:37:52
Speaker
um But yeah, I really just i love the whole episode. I think it was one of the I think it's probably I think I keep saying I think it's the second best episode of the season for me.
00:38:03
Speaker
I think two is just leaps and bounds. The best that in episode three of season one of the best things have come out of the show. Yeah. Pedro Pascale is Joe. I think he really turned because people were not happy when he got cast as first because people wanted Matthew McConaughey. They wanted all these different people.
00:38:19
Speaker
McConaughey would have been wild. McConaughey would have been so strange. I love him. either There's no way he's pulling off Joel. No. No. But a lot of people wanted Nicolaj Castorwaldo from Jamie from Game Thrones.
00:38:33
Speaker
I think I'm pronouncing his name right. That's a long name. It is. Yeah. You have a good one. I see him more as Tommy, though. No, because it's just like a fan casting that people of like you know edited the right haircut. Oh, they've like done everything to edit them. Yeah, they've they've made it perfect looking. So yeah, of course it's going to look like them.
00:38:53
Speaker
It's the same thing with people saying like, oh, Kaylee Spaney should have been Ellie. It's like, yeah, when you edit the photo to make her look five years younger and give her the exact haircut, the exact clothes, and the exact facial features.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yeah, and it looks like Ellie. Like, yeah, no shit. Kaylee Spaney auditioned and just wasn't good. Yeah, maybe. i don't know. Or maybe she's fucking five years older than, you know, like, isn't she like 29? She could pull off the AIDS thing. She's never. She did play a 14 year old last year.
00:39:19
Speaker
She did. And it looks like she's 14. Yeah, she's not a cold. She's 98. How old does that mean? 26. Math is not my strong suit. 26.
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, she's 26. Because I'm 24. yeah, you are. it's twenty six because i'm twenty four ah yeah you are God, you're fucking old. You're so old, dude.
00:39:44
Speaker
What, did you see 9-11 happen? Old fuck? God damn.
00:39:50
Speaker
Yes, I did. That's the main showing of age for our generation. If you were born before you're a fucking dinosaur. I was post-9-11. Like a real human being.
00:40:01
Speaker
um do you um Do you have anything else you want to add for episode 6? ah No, i think I think it was still good. It's just, the yeah, i mean the main thing is misplaced. And also, the fact that this is the longest episode.
00:40:14
Speaker
I swear to God, man, if next episode is like 42 minutes, probably yeah I'm going to be so upset. The length of it? Mm-hmm. No, no, you can check.
00:40:24
Speaker
Because I just finished Andor and... um Quick sip of water. And stay hydrated. Andor, the last episode of Andor, wasn't it wasn't incredibly short, but it was shorter than a lot of the other episodes.
00:40:38
Speaker
But at the same time, they did such a good job of wrapping it up relatively before the finale, where it was like the finale literally just needed to be like, okay, give all these characters their last say, just like show them where they ended up. And then it just leads directly in the Rogue One.
00:40:56
Speaker
And I did watch Rogue One immediately after finishing Endor. And it does make it better. The show ended after the It's done now? Oh, yeah. No, it goes like direct. You know how the you when you first see him in Rogue One, he's like talking to a guy and shoots him Yeah, he's on the cruiser. Yeah.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah. He's literally just – the show ends with him flying off to meet that guy. Oh, so it really just ends right where it ends. Oh, yeah. No, that was the plan from the beginning was to do two seasons and go right into Rogue One.
00:41:21
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I'm on episode three now. Oh, dude, it's so good. Even your dad was texting me. It's just like, it's so good. I know, because then I start, I put on Righteous Gems and I've watched eight episodes in one day. Yeah, you can just do that with Andor, man.
00:41:34
Speaker
It's that good. I think it's because I'm still like, like a little off so far. Yeah. i can't like focus, focus. So Righteous Gems is just funny. Yeah. Dude, it is the perfect mix of like the driest humor and then like normal humor.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. got Because those lines that just aren't funny, like shouldn't be funny. And I'm like giggling. Um, yeah, dude, the craziest thing about Andor rewatching Rogue One is how many people they got back from Rogue One to show up.
00:42:03
Speaker
Oh, dude, it it's insane. Like one of the guys you keep saying you want to get to the prison episode. One of the guys who is not even a main character in the prison episode is a soldier in Rogue One. Really? He just he comes back like it's it's amazing. Yeah, it's it's crazy. The amount of people like every general or like senator you see for even a little bit in Rogue One is just back in Andor.
00:42:25
Speaker
They just got it. They really just kept the same thing. Oh yeah. They just kept everybody and it it leads perfectly. It's such a good fucking show. Oh my God. I gotta get, I gotta get going again. It's so good. I'll watch it with you whenever. I'm so, I want to work. I want to rewatch the first season now again because so good.
00:42:42
Speaker
You can rewatch the first season. I'm one episode three. I'm not that. I might go to watch it
00:42:48
Speaker
When? I don't know. This week? Okay.
00:42:53
Speaker
It's a date. No. I thought I had i friend i had Red Dead 2. I don't, so I gotta buy it. Oh my god. You can't spend $60 on 80 hours of entertainment?
00:43:07
Speaker
um I won like $250 yesterday on the Phillies game. Great. That's what? Three Red Dead Redemption 2s? You can buy a bunch of gold coins. Yeah, yeah, Perfect.
00:43:18
Speaker
Gold bars. um Well, before, Ryan, we get going, what is your recommendation of the week? I mean, it's going to be Andor now. I can't talk about it and say don't watch this fucking show.
00:43:30
Speaker
I know everybody's watching this show except you. Watch the goddamn show. It's the best Star Wars since the originals. I will say that, honestly.
Personal Achievement and Episode Wrap-Up
00:43:41
Speaker
Okay, that's fair. It's better than the prequels. Even if I like the prequels, I would still Andrew is better than prequels. can already tell it's a higher quality than the prequels. I love the Clone Wars too.
00:43:51
Speaker
This better than the Clone Wars. It's amazing. Yeah, I gotta watch it. well I'm going to go down the same thing you just did. I'm going to recommend the Righteous Gemstones. right If you are Christian, Catholic, or anything like that, if you grew up having to go to Catholic school, you guys will watch the show and laugh out loud. These churches are real.
00:44:10
Speaker
these churches are real And the people are not always great people that run these mega churches. yeah It is Adam Devine. And this is so good. Danny McBride makes me laugh out loud every time he comes on screen because he's stupid. ah What are they called?
00:44:30
Speaker
Something chops. Oh, the mutton chops? Yeah. He's got them. Terrible. Oh, great. But yeah, there's and there's a former Satanist in the show. Who's now like a divine Christian, but he still says some outlandish things to everyone.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah. The whole show is just hilarious. I think the cast is great. The writing's really good. They really, there's some super violent scenes in it. Really? Just out of nowhere. Um, but yeah, i highly recommend it to everyone. It has four seasons and they're all eight episode seasons.
00:45:01
Speaker
And yeah, it's just, they're just hilarious shows, episodes, especially if you grew up in Catholic school. Yeah. Christian school. um We went to Catholic school. What?
00:45:11
Speaker
We went to Catholic school. We went to Catholic school. Yeah, we can go to Christian school. No, I'm saying like people- Not like Connor. Connor didn't go to Christian school. No, I know, but he's a Christian, not a Catholic.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a Christian. Now? Because you gave up. Yeah. Oh, well. You just said one day, you're like, i don't know, this is boring. I'm switch it up We start singing a little louder.
00:45:35
Speaker
ah Get a guitar on the stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get a full band instead just the piano now. We're treading into bad people territory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is funny. Whenever I go down the shore and go to, you ever been to St. Joe's in Seattle?
00:45:47
Speaker
No. It's a very, very nice church. Very pretty. But they usually have a full band instead of just piano or anything. It's so funny just seeing them every time. It's so great. um To answer your question, Last of Us finale is an hour.
00:46:03
Speaker
Okay. Well, is that an hour with the whole episode? just said runtime one hour. Okay. So I think that should just be actual show. I think that's just show. Yeah. Because usually when they show the runtime on like HBO Max and stuff, that's just the show. It doesn't include the... ah Yeah, because I don't think it's up yet.
00:46:20
Speaker
But yeah. Well, everyone, thank you for tuning in. Continue you following the Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all the social media platforms. Oh, I forgot to tell you. i told Sam I was going tell you live on the podcast and I waited till the end. but You proposed?
00:46:37
Speaker
No. it's No. Not good. Thank God. So I told you our thing went to a bunch of writing contests. Yeah. So there's a smaller one where if you won, you got published.
00:46:50
Speaker
We won. Nice. We won the entire thing. um So we get published. our Our screenplay for everyone who's watching is on Amazon I think next week. And it's like a full on book.
00:47:02
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. And you can buy it. And we get paid. Please. Please buy it. Please go buy the book. That'd be great. But yeah. So then there's a couple of studios reading it right now.
00:47:16
Speaker
right. But we can't really say anything else. But. Hopefully there's a next step. And then that's when I can, we can say something about, but yeah, it's pretty exciting. I was really high when I found out off my, I was lay laying, like, i was like, oh, my friend was like, that's how I want.
00:47:32
Speaker
was like, we won. No, did you? Well, yeah, you mentioned being, just want to be clear. Tommy had surgery. That's why he's high. Yeah. that just coatone My surgery. He's, he's an incredible pain. That's why.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah. I have like my hip, my braces on right now. Um, Yeah, not just hi. Army, I swear. But yeah, so we won. It was pretty cool.
00:47:55
Speaker
And yeah, I meant to tell you. And I was like, oh, I'm going to live on the podcast. And I waited till the end. I meant to do as an opening. Exciting. Awesome. Very exciting. Cool. um So yeah, thank you everyone for tuning in.
00:48:05
Speaker
Oh, Tommy, wait, one more thing. How about Max going back to HBO Max? We haven't talked about that yet. For no reason. Isn't that exciting? and yeah have you even seen the Peacemaker stuff making fun of it?
00:48:19
Speaker
No. they They're like redoing all their ads and he's like, stupid fucking Max. He's like redoing like the line, like watch us on HBO Max, stupid shit. I'm so excited for that show to come back.
00:48:34
Speaker
I don't get it. i don't know why. it doesn't to make it Changing it to just Max made no sense anyways. It should, just be but like I get why it's not HBO. not HBO. It's mostly HBO.
00:48:45
Speaker
I mean, when it when it first came out, all we called it was HBO. like it's just You just said HBO. And they were like, no, we're max now. Okay. Still the best streaming service. It still is, yeah.
00:48:56
Speaker
no Well, everyone, we'll see you in the next one where we're probably reviewing Mission Impossible. And the finale of The Last of Us. We're at Final Destination, too. Do you want to see Final Destination?
00:49:08
Speaker
May have seen it already.
00:49:10
Speaker
I'm sorry. I'll see you again, though. No, I'm not talking to Ryan anymore.