Transcript
Speaker: I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
Speaker: Hello friends, welcome back. We're here. we're here with another episode. We're still in season five. And today we are discussing the 2021 film, the house of Gucci starring Adam driver, Lady Gaga, El Pacino, and the regrettable, always regrettable jared Leto. Um,
Speaker: ah Before we before I read the summary, the like the IMDb summary of the movie, I just want to say clear the air. I'm breaking my silence that I have to be on mute. ah So ah anyone who is a regular listener of our show probably has recognized that there's been a couple gaps in between us releasing regular episodes. And that is 100% my fault because as Ariel very well knows, I bit off a little bit more than I could chew this summer work-wise. And so I've been...
Speaker: clinging it on to my sanity like a little raft on the ocean just trying to make it through this summer um but fortunately things like are about to change and think calm down a little bit for me so we should be back to releasing our episodes regularly to finish off season five which we are pretty close to the end of we've got like a few more to come out but of course ah So yes, this is me formally apologizing for being the problem. i'm i'm on camera trying not to cry laugh.
Speaker: So goofy. Meanwhile. me with the constitution of a victorian child just like constantly like i'm so sick i can't record like and yet we didn't ever miss an episode because of that but we did because of me being working very hard and doing very good work oh wow so you deserve now that's No, that's not what we're here to talk about today. I'm only here for self-recrimination. i am not here for praise. ah It's very uncomfortable for me. ah
Speaker: ah But, you know, what a what a film to talk about today. um so yes, like I said, The House of Gucci. So here's our very, very brief synopsis from IMDb.
Speaker: When Patrizia Reggiani, an outsider from humble beginnings, marries into the Gucci family, her unbridled ambition begins to unravel their legacy and triggers a reckless spiral of betrayal, decadence, revenge, and ultimately murder. So this is based on the true story.
Speaker: Yes. what happened. Yes. And... Did you, because this was in when was this is happening? This was happening like in the Like the 80s. Yeah. Mostly the 80s and then like into the early 90s. Yeah. So Patrizia was sentenced, to spoilers alert, in 1997. Yeah. i actually kept the Wikipedia page open because I wanted talk about it.
Speaker: Wow. So like not the full thing, but there's just like a couple little details where, this This is a story, like, I know that we're not story-based, you know, necessarily, this podcast, but we always have to talk about the story to, like, land the world. Yeah, it's important.
Speaker: And so um this is a story of, like, people who, if they had not met, would potentially have just lived their lives. Yeah. And yeah they wouldn't necessarily have been happy. But they they would have lived and it would have been relatively normal without, you know, these like operatic levels of unrest and freaking murder. So, yeah like, it's pretty crazy. um
Speaker: And so Lady Gaga, I think, played Patrizia very well. I do want to preface this with I did not enjoy this movie. Yeah. um and that makes two of us i was a struggle bus well and like i do think you know like peek behind the curtain for everyone listening we both watched this movie at like 9 a.m and i do think that that has an effect but not enough i don't think it would have made me like the movie if i saw it at 7 p.m correct if i saw this in a movie theater with popcorn instead of dry cereal as popcorn it would not have affected my opinion differently because this feels and sorry to this man ridley scott the director not sorry but like there's a certain quality of movie that feels kind of like a vanity project right yeah And like sometimes it's not like Vanity Project is almost like an umbrella term that has like little things that fall underneath it, little categories where it mostly is like I'm at this point in my career. i need to make an epic film that has big names attached to it and like a big story. And so unfortunately, Adam Driver has acted in a couple of those recently
Speaker: True. felt like House of Gucci was that because it the way it was advertised just didn't appeal to me. and so I didn't really pay attention when it was coming out. And then um because it it somehow had this way of taking this like huge story of this tragedy, this murder, and like all of these things that these people did to each other and making it feel so hollow and so Just like, look, big stars on screen. and it's like they could have been reading the phone book. you know and
Speaker: I'm so sorry to everyone who might disagree with the statement. It didn't feel big and grand to me watching it. they they They tried to tell you, but they didn't show you that. Correct. Ever. And so the other movie that Adam Driver was in recently, so sorry to all of these people, but not, was Megalopolis. And that one was an even...
Speaker: bigger, more bombastic version of what I'm talking about, which is like, we have all these names done. And it's like, okay, but maybe like run your stuff through an editor again. Maybe like reach out to somebody who hasn't been right next to you the whole process to look over it and give a little bit of feedback.
Speaker: but Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I just, I feel like there was a version of this movie that could have been made that would have been, um what's the word? Interesting.
Speaker: but compelling compelling thank you that's word that was actually good for c words today that i can't get down but that would have been compelling because this is a compelling story it is and i was not compelled of greed and like yes betrayals but like everything i'm so sorry to everything that happened in this movie felt so small it felt so small and so it felt almost like
Speaker: i'm I'm saying a lot of this today. i could say this better as like a better person, but I i don't think I will just because don't think we got to have the time. we got to be our we got to show up authentically. I feel like it's it's like when somebody who is used to acting a certain way, like on stage or on film, gives the other medium a shot and it's like, this is how you do it for real. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: but But it doesn't translate to the when they go back. So it's like when a film actor, note when like a theater actor does film, you have to be a little bit more understated for more film than you do for more theater, right? Because it's like with theater, you're literally on a stage you have to project so that people can see from a distance. You have to be able to affect or try to affect the person in the back of the theater the way you are affecting the person in the front of the theater. Whereas a movie screen is engineered to be gigantic so everybody in the theater
Speaker: can see it yeah the camera's in your face so in your face yeah and so smaller mics right right here at all times and so you can be big you can do all this stuff but you can also be very very understated and be trying to replicate reality where people aren't always theatrical right and so yeah when you take it back to the other one sometimes it just doesn't translate But this one could have benefited from some theatricality. It actually could have because this felt like, well, I've done a serious movie and so now I know how to do serious or I've done a – like I'm not quite saying it right, but there's like something here where everybody was doing one volume. like you know I just
Speaker: i I think like where was like, this is a weird sentence. Where's like the John Woo version of this movie where there's like curtains and like doves and like red and like people falling to their knees in slow motion. Like that would have been more campy and fun than this. It didn't, it could still be serious, you know, but it's like even Godfather. Godfather had like slapping the desk and screaming, you know, like. And there were so many times in this movie that I felt like they were trying to emulate things about The Godfather, which is also like, I'm so sorry to drop this bombshell, not a favorite movie of mine either, because I'm fundamentally just not interested in the subject matter of that movie. But like, I was watching the movie with Jonathan. And but before I realized that that was Jared Leto under all of those prospects, I just thought this is a man. And I was like, oh, he's the brother character from The Godfather that can't do anything right. Like, yeah yes. The only thing that was missing was a Fredo kiss before they like ripped his life from underneath. But even that I was like.
Speaker: The way that the movie was structured did not like drive home those moments of betrayal and like machination. It was just like, ugh. The thing is, and I'm going to borrow from How Did This Get Made and Paul Scheer, term that I've used before that I think I've called out.
Speaker: ah Probably when we were talking about Super Mario Brothers, is that this is such a case of pasta face. Like, this is... these accents and the physicality is about as Italian as Mario and Luigi are. And Mario and Luigi have even a little bit more grounding because at least they're New York Italian, you know, like for real New York, York. And like these people moved it to New York at one point, yeah but they're supposed to be Italian, Italian. And like, I was raised by my my mom who was Italian American And Sicilian American. And so like I had experiences with the larger family who were from New Orleans, like Sicily went to New Orleans, came out here, carried a lot of the dynamics of a Sicilian family.
Speaker: And like they were old school as hell. And we when they In this movie, they go out to a little farm right with Pacino because fucking Pacino's in here.
Speaker: and They had Pacino. Pacino was in this. I got jump scared by Pacino and Jeremy Irons because I did not remember anything about who was what was happening or who was in it. Oh, God. I did not i did not know like i didn't know any of this story before watching the movie. Yeah.
Speaker: I didn't know anything that was going to happen in this movie other than Lady Gaga was going to do the Catholic, the father, the son, and the house of Gucci. That was the only thing. And the only like visual that I had of the movie was her in that fur hat when they were like yeah up in like the Alps or whatever. They're skiing. Yeah. yeah But I was just like. So like there's there's some truth to some of these dynamics. Right. And like some of that's just.
Speaker: You can read it in Wikipedia, you know, but like when they went out to the little farm, I was like, that was my uncle Joe's farm. That's what that looked like. yeah um And, you know, big arguments, crazy stories, whatever.
Speaker: But the accents and so much of it was like, so it was like watching a ah movie in a TV show.
Speaker: You know, like, yeah, when the characters in the show or in the movie are watching movie in that world. That's what this felt like. And like, apparently has some pretty, pretty high ratings. like Yeah. And who are those people? Because I'm so curious, because I i i just it did not connect. And like, I, I'm always I'm fat. I can be fascinated by criminal stories about crime. Of course. Oh, yeah. I don't need to be like a morally aligned with the characters, too. And which, by the way, that that reminds me about why I have the Wikipedia open. Thank you for saying that morally aligned. um So Patrizia Reggiani, the real Patrizia.
Speaker: i don't know what cojones this woman has, but they are made out of steel because she was sentenced to 29 years, right? For arranging the killing.
Speaker: hmm. And in 2000, they reduced the sentence to 26 years. In 2000, something else happened. And in 2011, she became eligible for parole under a work release program. But she refused, saying, I've never worked in my life, and I'm certainly not going to start now. Okay, that is a queen behavior.
Speaker: She said, am so sorry. am the, the Dawn. I am. I'm the, the woman of the house. That's wild. And then. Also untrue. We saw her working for her dad at the beginning the film. Yeah, so down, ma'am. But then because you said I don't have to be morally aligned in order to watch this, here's the thing.
Speaker: In March 2021, Reggiani praised the casting of Lady Gaga in the film saying she looks like her, but expressed annoyance that Gaga didn't meet her before accepting the role. Immediately Gaga stated in interviews that she had no interest in colluding with Reggiani, but that her heart goes out to her daughters. I do care deeply that this must be very painful for them.
Speaker: And so it's like, I do love that Lady Gaga is like, no, I'm not playing that game. no like like, I'm sorry. You did a bad thing. you did quite a few bad things. Yeah, like you had your husband gunned down for like...
Speaker: ah It seemed like it was like due to personal reasons. i will have my husband killed. Like it was about ego, I think. Oh, 100%. And she really did. In reality, when she was in court, she was introduced as Patrizia Reggiani. And she corrected them and said, Patrizia Gucci. You can call me Signora Gucci. Yeah.
Speaker: Which is like, okay, cool. Like boss behavior, not, but like, i don't know, ah like, It was, there's so many people, because like when the movie came out, it seemed like the consensus was like, you know, i don't know if this is a good movie or a bad movie, but I had a great time watching It was like the thing that a lot of people said. And the word camp was thrown around so much. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I did not see anything that rose to that level. Yeah, I think that people are kind of like mistaking. of It's like a... ah
Speaker: A very fine line here where it's soapy. This is like a telenovela, which can be campy. But this is like the dark side of campy. so But I'm like, where are the moments where somebody is like crying and then like slaps someone and then kisses them and then yeah storms away? Like, where is that? night That's big in camp, you know? like yeah Or like...
Speaker: And like crush me with the grandeur of the family. Do you know what I mean? The scope. And so it's like when we meet Adam Driver's character, Maurizio Gucci's father, who is played by Jeremy Irons, I was like, oh, here we go again. Jeremy Irons playing so much. Yeah.
Speaker: ah because he was He was in the house of the spirits. It's like, you shouldn't be here. sir And that's Meryl Streep. You shouldn't be here either. This is not for you. um And so just like go home. And there is okay. On IMDb, I was going through the photos. It's the 29th of 255 photos. The,
Speaker: his character jeremy irons is um really sick. He's dying and he does die in the movie. Yeah. And he is... they the The sick makeup, the the makeup that they did for him is freaking stunning. yeah say Yeah. He looks...
Speaker: horrific he looks like he should be a victorian ghost and it's really amazing and like the costumes because now let's talk about costumes okay like and this is such like a tiny little pinpoint way of getting in there but he's so sickly and he's just like got this like purple at least the lighting makes it look purple like jacket or something underneath something else that is more like of a gray because of the lighting like a dark gray. And, um, it just like brings up like the colors that he's wearing, just bring the sickliness out in his makeup.
Speaker: And he just looks like he's wasting away as you see him throughout. And he just like, it's like, he just dims and dims and dims and it's really effective. Yeah.
Speaker: But I had this kind of like miss, uh, nope, how's a better way to say it? I had the wrong expectation of what kind of costuming we would see because I wasn't sure if we would be seeing more Gucci like shows or like what's happening with the fashion house like that would be more because obviously the whole story is about having control over a failing fashion house and so it's like I wasn't sure if that would be more of the story and it's not it's like we get little peaks every once in a while but mostly we're seeing the obsession with what Gucci means through Patrizia's eyes so yeah And her fashion. Because when we see her, she's this like gorgeous young woman. And she's wearing very tight-fitting clothing that is like very lovely on her. like She just looks great. And she has ah so many hair.
Speaker: I was not a huge fan of a lot of her looks in this movie, I say. Her looks, I'm not a fan of. but But they are very realistic. Right. Are they, though?
Speaker: i She looks like my grandmother's aunt. they're Like, 100%. There was something about the way that the clothes were, like, cut that felt like...
Speaker: It felt like the influence of an actor wanting to be seen a certain way. Okay. Now I did get that. There's like specific outfits that I'm thinking of when I say that they looked accurate, but there are specific ones that actually kind of annoyed me like early in the movie where When Patrizia and Maurizio first meet, it's at a party that a friend of hers brings her to. And she doesn't know who's throwing this party. She's just there having a good time. She's just plus one.
Speaker: And Maurizio is like behind the bar, but he's not the bartender. And so she goes to order a drink and he's like, oh, this isn't my job. And then they start talking and he introduces himself and she immediately clocks Gucci.
Speaker: So she does it like aggressively starts pursuing him. Yeah. And she's wearing this dress. Yeah. The red one. The red one. That is exactly to me what you're talking about, which is we need to make this actor look this way. Yeah.
Speaker: And it needs to fit this actor according to the actor's tastes. Yes. The performer's tastes. It didn't feel 70s. That one did not feel 70s. There are a couple looks later that I can point to family members of mine. Yeah, yeah. Look exactly yeah like that. So yeah later, it's more in the 80s. The 80s stuff I enjoyed a lot more. That stuff is when we really start actually yes feeling like the period. Yes. And I think that it's because the style and silhouette of the 80s is so dramatic. It's so dramatic and it feels more aligned with how she wanted to be perceived. Yes. And the 70s stuff felt like it was a little disjointed from time and reality because it didn't quite reflect maybe how...
Speaker: she would want to be seen in the film. And I'm totally projecting and could like, you know, I have no reason to believe that that's true. And some of the 70s stuff I did like, but there was some stuff where I was like, this feels like the actor and their star power influenced. And it's not quite the period. And I'm not going to say that that's to the point of, because this will always be my metric, Emma Watson as Belle with the gold dress. It's not to that degree. It was not to that degree. it's It's the same thing as when you see, you know, a men's suit on like an A-lister actor and you're like, that's clearly this one fashion house that they were like, I have to work with Armani. Nothing else. Right. And it's like, that wasn't necessary for this scene, you know, like where you can kind of like pick something out and be like, it didn't need to be that. And I think, honestly, I think a lot of it had to do with the sort of, like, aggressive, lifted bra breast situation. Yeah. Which, like, not to fixate, but, like, you know, when I think of silhouettes and styles of the 70s, just think of stuff that is so much more relaxed
Speaker: In its silhouette. And that's not to say that that's everything. But I just felt like she spent the whole movie in like a 90s wonder bra. And that the cut of a couple of the stuff in the 70s was like really, really highlighting that. And it just felt inaccurate to...
Speaker: The period. And maybe all of it is totally spot on the way that Patrizia dressed. I don't know because I don't know that much about her. person I would love to see the research. Yeah. right not Not like, hey, justify yourself. Costumes are not from no point just to know what they're looking at. Just to know what they were looking at. Because, yeah, because like I have to admit, it was hard not to look at my phone in this movie.
Speaker: And like agreed. Agreed. It was a bit of a struggle bus. And so, like, even the costumes couldn't help me with that. And that's not – I'm not trying to, like, lay blame here. It just, like – it just didn't catch me. And, like, there were moments where there are there there are costume moments that are like, okay, this is being sold by Lady Gaga. Like, there's – This black And pink number with pink polka dots. Oh, that one was great. And like she has these. and Once we get into the eighty s Patrizia has these incredible like statement necklaces. Yeah, the jewelry was wonderful. there The jewelry is chunky. yeah It's everywhere. She's literally my grandma.
Speaker: It's crazy. And yeah. Like, her hair, i didn't even count how many different hairstyles are going on here. yeah but the hair was great. There's so many. And it was fantastic. And it was like big, and then it would get smaller and just like all sorts. And so there was a real journey with the hair that was very fun. because it also Yeah.
Speaker: Following that with her character really did heighten where she was because it, this is a story watching her character. It's, it's about her basically trying to engineer this fantasy, right? Like she wants to be this rich, powerful, fashionable,
Speaker: woman. um And so she aggressively pursued this relationship with a son of the house of Gucci who doesn't care about this. He doesn't care about the fashion. He was a lawyer. Like he didn't, this wasn't his world. Wasn't his thing. He wasn't, he, he seemed pretty passive yeah in the movie until he wasn't. Yeah. And so it's just like, who knows how much that was real or not, but yeah, regardless, he didn't,
Speaker: care about the fashion house and it was it didn't have a great reputation at this point like it was very like kind of stodgy i think is how people seem to be responding to the designs coming out of it and there was like a whole thing about um fakes That were like allowed to go into the market.
Speaker: And so like oh just all this stuff. And um she wanted to turn all that around and have all the shares and run the company and get super rich and wear all the fun, cool, fancy clothes. And I think she did meet Jackie O like in real life.
Speaker: I think that they might have become friendly some point in her life. um Which it was sort of like, it's interesting. i mean, obviously, ultimately, she she is a villain. She perpetrated a murder against her. i don't i guess they i don't know if they were actually divorced at that point or not. ah It was unclear in the film whether they were just separated or divorced, but...
Speaker: um They divorced in 94. Okay. So were actually divorced. They dragged it from basically 1985 onward. But it was sort of like, well, no one else really seems that concerned about this brand and this woman actually like does deeply care and want to do something with it. So it was sort of like, it seemed like a situation where everybody was sort of fine with her acting that way until she...
Speaker: took it too far, I guess. like um But yeah, I was much more interested in her looks in the 80s because it felt like that was what everybody was more interested in. like It felt like the film was more interested in that. um But I was way more generally compelled by most of the menswear in the movie I thought was pretty fun.
Speaker: You know, i I wish I was on the same boat. Oh, no. Because what I was going to say was, if you are super interested in menswear, this is a movie for you. Yeah. Because there are so many men in this. There are two women, basically, and any other women that we see are kind of incidental or they're like domestic workers or background. Yeah.
Speaker: There's – they kind of had to like do a lot yeah with especially Lady Gaga in order to to land you in where we are in time because like, again, and we've said this before, when you look at the history of menswear over the past like 200 years, it's not had extreme shifts. Like, there are definite changes. 1970s are different than 1980. I mean, 1880, you know, but like, of course, the fundamental stuff is pretty similar. yeah And so it's very, it's much more of like a
Speaker: ah so not subtle, but like kind of like an intricate difference when you have to dress so many men yeah suits. yeah You have to make very deliberate differentiations between each of them.
Speaker: And so there there are fun things, but because this movie just like was not compelling to me, I just like, it was very easy to go. It's a dark scene. It's shot dark and it's a bunch of dark suits. Yeah. But I did appreciate like there is,
Speaker: um I think that the seventy s is kind of her up to up to now the last decade where there was like at least like a decent variety of colors that like men's suiting and stuff was coming in. And it's just been like reduced and reduced and reduced. um I was having a conversation earlier this summer about trying to like infuse some more personality into some menswear of like a show that I was working on. yeah And I said like, well, men are only allowed to wear five colors currently. And it's black, blue, gray, khaki. And if you're feeling kind of slutty, like burgundy, like those are the colors that men are allowed to wear right now.
Speaker: And the so, like, I think partially the fact that it is, like, Italian and it is, like, a family that is supposed to be, you know, a fashion brand gives you, like, a little bit of permission to expand and, like, play.
Speaker: And i appreciated that they did go for that. yeah Especially on the, ah unfortunately, previously mentioned Jared Leto character that was, like...
Speaker: the Gucci of the family that did honestly like want to be a fashion designer. Like he had some pretty fun costumes to be honest. He did. He had, and he also had like, he was surrounded by Cause he had like a little sewing studio. He was surrounded by more fabrics and, and colors than anything else. yeah And so he wanted to make risks. And there's a scene where his character Aldo, is talking to Jeremy Irons, whose character's name I don't remember.
Speaker: Let's see. what Was he Adolfo? Rudolfo. thought it was Adolfo. Now it's Rudolfo. And so Rudolfo is ah pretending that he likes the stuff. Yeah. And then he...
Speaker: like castigates him for shit like you have browns next to pastels. And it's like, no this is a conversation about fashion, right? Because there are people who are successful in anything that are like, these are the rules you have to live by. And sure, they can be successful and they can be correct and they can make fashion lines that sell. But it's showing the old guard, right? Yeah. Saying like, well, this is these are the rules and you have to have it like this. Otherwise, it's tacky or it's shit. But you have to also shake it up sometimes. You have to take risks. And you also have to, if you are a fashion house and this is what you do, you have to research and understand
Speaker: the tastes that exist and like move with the times and what people are interested in and not just be stolidly in one position unless you're going to like maybe I don't know have a line that is the traditional line and then a line that is adventurous and so that is a conversation that's happening in this it's like the person who does want to play and make amazing things is this Evil, Jared Leto.
Speaker: um Character Aldo. And then the person who wants to reap all the benefits from it is Patrizia. She just wants the money, yeah really. She wants to wear fancy shit that other people say is fancy.
Speaker: um Yeah. I don't think that she like has her own thing. like No. and a she and She wants the money. I think that's one of the things that was so um confusing slash.
Speaker: like not compelling about the movie is you have this movie about a internationally known luxury fashion brand and most of the characters in the movie did not seem interested in fashion at all and it's like very realistic but it's sort of like i I just kept asking myself, like watching the movie, like, what is Ridley Scott interested in here? Like, what is he trying to say? Like, what is going on here? it's like this, this could also be reflective of these people, right? But it's like, yeah.
Speaker: Dig deeper somehow, like, give me a point to grab on to, because I just feel like I'm just being carried along. And I think honestly, the cinematography was not helping. no because there was so much of it that was just kind of like framed around like the immediate characters and every once in a while you'd like zoom out and get like a sense of like the sort of opulence of the lives that these people were leading but it was sort of like if the movie is about like greed and how it like destroyed these people's lives i didn't see that much visual greed Yeah, the only times that you really see it is like you understand that the suits the men are wearing are expensive. Yeah. And you understand that Patrizia is drowning in expensive jewelry and she's wearing furs and she's wearing these outfits that do get louder and louder as we go in like a fun way. um But like...
Speaker: Okay, we do understand that we're like in in the Alps skiing and that these people have this kind of money and like there's a DeLorean and like there's right different stuff. But it it doesn't – I don't know. It's just like all the pieces are there but they don't quite gel for me as the audience to either compel me or to – suck me in or to really show me the stakes of of like where the company's at. People are telling me but not showing me except in like the casual disrespect. like Yeah. And the the ego of like the Gucci's being like, I think Maurizio says at one point he gets introduced to this young designer.
Speaker: says, well, maybe you'll work for me someday. And the designer goes, nobody's going to work for Gucci. I know. and it's like, okay, well, now I understand the cultural understanding of Gucci at this moment, but we're three quarters of the way into the movie.
Speaker: Right. Well, and that was so strange to me because it was like, we get dropped into this story with this existing brand that everyone knows it means certain things to people.
Speaker: we don't any of the work. We don't see any of it. And like the way that like Adam Driver's character is introduced is he's just like mistaken for the bartender at the party. Wearing a tux at like a costumey – well, not a costumey party. It's like a – It's a masquerade. Yeah. yeah because But also like that scene, h i I did not believe that we were in the 70s in that scene.
Speaker: At all. I was really having a hard time with the the clothes in that scene. What i was stuck on in that scene is that because this party at the very beginning is a room full of sequins, right? yeah And to me, I kind of like got distracted and imagined this montage of like costumers and like assistants and shoppers running around the warehouses or through a city screaming, oh, the sequins. We need all the sequins in order to populate this one scene of just like sequined stuff that they pulled. but but yeah, it doesn't feel.
Speaker: it didn't feel like I i i should have. i've It should have felt like we were in Studio 54. Yes. It did not feel that way. And the the types of sequins that were being used looked contemporary to me. They did not look vintage.
Speaker: It looked very much like hand wavy. Yeah. And that's how I felt about a lot of the early scenes in the movie where i was sort of like, I don't really believe there's an essential quality to the looks of the 70s that are not here. And if you're trying to ground me in time and space, like I'm not. No. And I agree with you very much. And it's like this costume designer, because we should name her, um,
Speaker: Yeah. And I'm so sorry. Like there are some really cool things in the movie. And like she's done so many like great pieces of work. So I'm not trying to. Yeah. No, it felt. This is Jante. Jante Yates, um who's done Gladiator, Napoleon, 2023. Gladiator 2, The Last Duel.
Speaker: um She did some of the Alien movies, which makes sense. Alien Covenant, The Martian, Exodus, Gods and Kings. like These are big movies. Prometheus, Robin Hood, American Gangster. So she did American Gangster. And American Gangster feels – because that isn't that the 70s too? Like that one feels very 70s. Yeah. So that's why I'm like there's something going on and I don't want to lay it at her feet. No, I don't want to lay it at her feet at all. This feels very much like – um you're having to focus on specific bodies.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's like the big, like there are looks that are, have been prioritized maybe not by you. Yes. And then you also have to meet the standards of the performer that you are designing for or costuming because of their career and what they do. So it's like, there's a lot of potentially,
Speaker: politics happening and how the design happens and sometimes that's how it works i don't have any um solutions for that but sometimes somebody's career does determine the level of what they will do because they can't not look like themselves well and also like i think that um And this is why I think talking about the story is so important is that if you're direction of the movie is unclear, the creative departments of your movie can't fix that. True.
Speaker: Yeah. And it can't be hand waved away. no And if you're... storytelling as a director is not clear, then you can't expect, like you're the leader of the project. And if you can't be clear about your motivation, what you're trying to say, like your storytelling and the method that you want to tell that story, it's going to bleed down the ladder to every department. And there's also this kind of, um,
Speaker: There's another part of that which we've experienced and anybody can experience this at any level um of theater or film or any project is when the project is kind of mythologized from go then you lose sight of what you're trying to say or where you're trying to be.
Speaker: Because like, i feel like when this was coming out, it at least the stars were like presenting this like, oh, we had such a an adventure making this you know, like whatever. yeah And it's like,
Speaker: Okay, but the the scope of what you were experiencing and what you felt is not really coming through the screen. Exactly. With the story and like all the ingredients of the story. So that I think supports what you said.
Speaker: um Because it's like, I'm glad that you had a certain experience, but I didn't feel the scope of that at all. Yeah. And there's this interesting quote from Adam Driver. I'm going to misquote it because I read it like a few years ago um that people gave him a lot of shit for. But I really felt like I understood what he was saying in that moment where – um I think it was when Marriage Story came out because it's like, you know, about him and Scar Joes, like their characters, like relationship, just like disintegrating in front of him whatever. And um I think whoever was interviewing him basically asked him like, ah you know, what was, what was it like making that film? Because like, you're married, you have a family, like did that, you know, how like, how did you,
Speaker: basically internalize that in the role and his response was that like it doesn't matter what is going on inside his head when he's acting it matters what comes out yeah and how it lands for the audience and people got very angry at him for saying that basically saying that like he doesn't care i think was the takeaway but that's not what he's saying When people refer to the fact that they are doing a job. Yes. People get mad. It makes them so upsetty spaghetti. And that's on any any level, right? Yes. And cameras are obviously more on the performers. And so with the interviews and all that stuff, it's another symptom of mythologizing this. like Yes. He's a performer and he's a really good one. Yeah. But like...
Speaker: what he's saying is just true. It's absolutely true. What's happening inside my head. And we've been kind of warped by this whole like method acting shit. Correct. He's like, it doesn't matter what I do on the inside. No.
Speaker: What comes out leave what i'm saying is the performance. And it's so fascinating to me that anybody would hear him say those words and like be mad. like It's so weird because it's like...
Speaker: you can enjoy the film and you can enjoy the performance and he doesn't have to personally be experiencing this like disintegration of what's going on for the character. Like he just has to tap into those emotions outwardly. Like, and so I think that what ah what I felt ultimately about this movie is it's sort of like,
Speaker: it's It's something that I was thinking about earlier this year, which is like, you know, the audience that comes and sees something, whether it's a movie, whether it's like a show, a performance of any kind, um they don't know what you intended. They only know what they see. yep And so this is a perfect example of that, I think, which is like you were building something, but I didn't receive that.
Speaker: And I didn't come into this with – sometimes I go into a movie with like a predisposed like – Of course. But this one was just like, oh, it's so long. I know. But like – Yeah. But i didn't have any – oh, I already hate this. I have an opinion about the design or anything. I was just like, nope. I just know that it's supposed to be like this big movie about this story that I don't really know. And it just. Well, like I came in with the expectation that like, oh, it's going to be maybe like kind of over the top, but it's going to be really fun.
Speaker: it was not fun. No. And it also wasn't compelling enough to be dark. No. You know, so it's just this kind of like middle floaty ground on yeah like every count. And, you know, you can like scroll through this movie and you can find some really great looks. Yeah. And and so there are amazing costumes here, but I am very nosy and just kind of want to know, like, when you have...
Speaker: we are going to circle back to Beauty and the Beast because it's always going to be this example for me. I think at this point we can't watch the movie because then what would we talk about? Everything. um But it's just like this example of a type of movie where you have somebody who's really good at what they do. Yeah. And like this costume designer is very good at what she does, Gentia. And that's clear. Her CV is very long. And like she's very good at this.
Speaker: But when you have a movie where – Okay. And i I just want to clarify that sometimes when people hear this conversation, we were talking about this earlier, personally, um where people are so quick to jump to, but you're just there to enhance. You're there to support the vision of the director. Correct. Yeah.
Speaker: But when you have somebody who has the knowledge and the know-how and the skills of the designer you hired, but the story doesn't feel cohesive.
Speaker: Yeah. The visual story doesn't feel cohesive. Where did you take away the power of that person with those skills? And what does that mean? And why did that happen? Like what, what were the priorities that demanded something shift this way instead of perhaps what would have grounded this more in reality. um And so it's not really about ego. It's about what happened here.
Speaker: And because we don't know her designs, we don't know what the production process was. Perhaps there was nothing. Perhaps we just don't like part of the design. Yeah, maybe. And that's okay. Yeah. But like sometimes it is truly what happens, which is that the designer with the skills and the team to support those skills with extra skills, ah they have something that cohesively tells a story that reflects reality, right? supports the actors in their roles and makes them feel grounded in this world that you're trying to build for your audience.
Speaker: And then someone will say, but we have a deal with this designer. So we have to scrap what you did and do this piece instead. Or whatever, right? Or like, you know, our this actor has specific tastes and we have to give them.
Speaker: Yeah. We have to keep them happy on this project. Yeah. And so it's like, those are things that not everybody thinks about. And then when we see something like this, where it's like, I feel like there's like a two thirds or like a half of the movie that's stronger visually than the other. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's like, how did that weight shift happen? Like, right. It's all the same movie. Yeah. So what, what happened? And um that's not to, say that somebody wasn't talented or skilled or didn't do a good job. It's just like, what was the conversation that led to that? Yeah. And am I full of shit? And it's like,
Speaker: um you know, not every movie is going to be an A plus. Like, that's just the reality. um But I think it was just like,
Speaker: My expectation going into the film was like, oh, everybody who saw this movie like had such a good time. And I was like, can I talk to them yeah and ask them what was the good time what they saw that I'm not seeing here and like where the disconnect is? like i don't really know. Because I saw the, what people were referring to as campy performances. And I was like, this feels painful. Like he shall not be named again. um who did have great suits, corduroy suits that were, I loved those corduroy suits. Freaking awesome. Like, Yeah, I loved them. And I'm like, where are those? Because like, that's a great example of a men's suit that we don't often see anymore that has just so many different shapes in it that make it really interesting. Yeah. And it's so many of them.
Speaker: and like so many and like irons has like quite a few looks with some like the p scar yeah that the pocket square game that all these men have was unmatched the details were so fantastic but like the performances at some of the lines were insane like there's one that i and i told my husband i was like what What in the world was this? where We have these American actors who are pretending to be Italians in Italy with these crazy past the accents
Speaker: saying things that are hybridized English and Italian, but in the weirdest ways. So there's a line that Leto says, Aldo. Where it's after they betrayed him.
Speaker: And what they did to betray him was that they built him up to have a show where they promised him a line for the House of Gucci. So he produces all of these pieces. they And I was honestly kind of interested in them. So was I. I was like, finally, we've got some shit going on. Let's look at it. Because I think I might be wrong because, again, i was so distracted. But I think we see three fashion shows in the movie.
Speaker: ah Yeah. So we see his. There's a spring 83. Yeah. Then we, so the very end, there's a Tom Ford. Yes. The one that shows the transition where they've cut all the Gucci's out of the business basically. And it goes to Domenico and Tom Ford and an investment company essentially. Right. um Although Adam Driver is there, but he was not a creative force. Yeah. And he gets cut out of the company. Yeah. Yeah, immediately afterwards.
Speaker: um We do see a couple fashion shows and Aldo's was promising. But what they do is that Maurizio Gucci and Patrizia send a cease and desist and they destroy and embarrass him. And like everything he's invested is's from him. So he's out of money. Yeah. And he actually, in reality, did die in poverty a couple, like soon after that, a couple of years after that. Yeah. And so they just like ripped it away from him and then had the audacity to say, we want to buy your shares. So they took away everything from him and said, we'll give you money for your shares. So like your dream, you'll never have it, but at least you'll have some money.
Speaker: And it was just like, oh my God. Yeah. But I was like, this is a brief fashion show. if i do Okay. I don't even remember why I brought that up. But what I want to say about the fashion show, because I feel like we should talk about them, is that this one was so overstimulating. And I think that now today we're very used to the concept of a fashion show, having the runway frequently lined by the people watching like New York Fashion Week, right? you think Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Paris Fashion Week, whatever. And um London Fashion Week. Whichever fashion week you want to talk about. Pick your city. um And there's usually some sort of like insane sound system where you're not seeing musicians. You're hearing like DJ music. And it's sometimes like really electric, all sorts of stuff happening. But it's like creating this kind of like capsule for everybody to be inside where you are just like you're looking at the clothing. This one has an opera singer. His wife. His wife singing opera. With like a trio of musicians. Yeah. And directly across from the runway. Yes. Competing for your attention. and like the clothes are bright.
Speaker: The music is happening over here, but because the music is not in a sound system that's like really surrounding, you can hear the footsteps of the models and you can hear the audience talking amongst themselves like really loudly. And so it's just like overstimulating is fun. This is like, oh, this is so sad. it like oh Maybe that would be interesting to have that kind of a thing happening. But like, I i would be driven insane like by all the sounds all over the place. And that's all I could think about about fashion show. That's really funny. I didn't think about that at all. I just thought about how weird it was that the like opera singing just seemed really like irrelevant to like the fashion. So it was obviously just like a vanity project for his wife to be like singing. But also every time we see him and he's talking about costumes, there's opera.
Speaker: So like when he has Patrizia in his studio, he's playing exactly I think what she's singing. Yeah, that's true. And so it's like it's his thing. So it totally is a vanity connection yeah where he's like, see, I'm one of the classics. oh I'm an artist.
Speaker: Oh, my God. it was just so much. But like – I genuinely don't remember where I was going with all of this. But you said there was something, some quote that he said that you like told to Phil because you couldn't believe. Oh, thank you. My God. he says it was the pasta face of it all. He says um after they betrayed him, um they're like trying to cajole him into selling him their shares. And he's like,
Speaker: He flicks his arm around, his hands around. Like he's got a cigarette in one hand and he's like really dramatic with the arms. And then he says something about like, you don't eat oh you don't eat shit and chocolato. Don't confuse shit and chocolato. And I was like,
Speaker: What? I got I understood him in that moment. I mean, I did, too. But I was like, why did we select the Italian for this? know. have a little bit more Italian in the why not say like, go fuck yourself in Italian and then say that. You know what I mean? I was just like, it's it's that that fed into the acting that was like, this is like hand puppets. Well, I find that there's actually like no proper way to handle a movie where the movies in English and the characters are meant to be speaking another language because... the construction of that... Oh, I mean, it was so confusing. It felt like it was 1998. It really did. They were going back to the time period that it set Yeah.
Speaker: But... Because I feel like... It's really confusing to me when because I'm like, they would just be speaking Italian. They don't have Italian accents, because they're not speaking in English. But like, we need to understand that they're Italian. So they make them speak in Italian accents in English.
Speaker: And then like, so much. it's But then if you didn't do that and they just had American accents, people would be like, this is insane. They're Italian. Why don't they sound Italian? But like there's actually no way to win. It's no every single choice is wrong. But it's like everything about this is so it could it could have been camp.
Speaker: It could have been. But like in that scene, he's being campy. yeah Nobody else is. But also like, ah personally, i don't really go to Ridley Scott for camp. Yeah. So like, why was it happening at all is my thing. I don't know. It's like pick a lane a little bit. Yeah. So I i stopped listening. Yeah. when a lot of people were on screen and just looking at their suits um but there is a ah there are a couple that I do want to shout out there's this Christmas it's like the doomed Christmas it's like their last Christmas together Maurizio and Patrizia and she's wearing this yellow dress it's like a silk I feel like
Speaker: It's very drapey, very gorgeous. It's like a golden rod even. it was just like, oh, this is so nice because it was also so saturated. And we'd been yeah with so many dark things for so long that I was like, oh, here we go. and then when they're in um at the chalet and she's wearing the red snow suit and the fur hat. it's just Oh, my God. The fur hat.
Speaker: so So everything about that and like there's red goggles that complement the suit and Paola. who is an old friend of Mauricio who he he then starts to date. um She's wearing a white snowsuit. And so she looks like a James, like a Bond girl. She really she was really put together, well put together. And then Patrizia looks so loud, like next to her. but So insecure. so insecure and so like over the top. And I don't know. I just really liked that opposition happening. And then there's the scene where, because we didn't even mention Salma Hayek, but she plays a psychic in this. I mean, even know what to say about her character. this Yeah, I don't either. And they're like,
Speaker: yeah ah But like, she's With Patrizia because that's how Patrizia gets connected to these men who are going to kill her ex-husband. Yeah. But there's a scene where they meet somewhere and it's to hand over the money and to talk over the details very quick. And Patrizia, the camera like gets close in Lady Gaga's face and she's like telling them you better not miss, you know, all this tough talk.
Speaker: She's wearing lip liner for the gods. And I was like, evil Patrizia. And like... jeans the woman this was in jeans and it's like not a members only jacket it might be a leather jacket but it kind reminds me of that style yes jacket absolutely and but i just love that evil patricia doesn't have the fill them lip or anything it's just the lip line that's how you know we're in the early ninety s yeah and that she's mad my sort of like
Speaker: what but that I loved was when we get to that same era was Paolo's Windbreaker sets that he had the like teal and purple thank you for mentioning those they were so like because it was just like What is, you know, this is the evolution of a man who's been in these like impeccably tailored suits.
Speaker: And this is him like he's given up, he's lost the fight, but he cannot give up his flair. So he's in these like wild, like fantasy of the 90s windbreaker sets. I want more windbreakers in 90s movies. They're like movies that take place in the 90s because they were so big. if They were so big. And they don't get the representation that they should, I feel. They don't. Because like, obviously, Paolo was never going to wear these. And this is ah Pacino, by the way. But like...
Speaker: um there were windbreakers that had like puff paint and glitter and like maybe they had a style that like names this but they were so crazy and like my grandmother had all of them and like she had fancy windbreakers for fancy occasions okay or like gold and black windbreakers so seeing that I was like this feels like home like This like chunk, like the the gold bracelets, like pinky rings and shit yeah and the fucking windbreaker. I was like, yes yep, that's circa 1994. I remember I know him. um But ah yeah, ah who I'm like...
Speaker: I think I've said everything i I needed to say about this movie. I think that tonally, the styles that are on view, the way that they're filmed, the way that they're lit, it just kind of like made me feel tired.
Speaker: Yeah, me too. I'm sure that there are folks who know more about the period of Gucci and like the turn, but it's not really when Gucci becomes...
Speaker: ah main main player again that we're talking about in the movie. Yeah, it was so strange that that's where they, you know, I mean, it's it's what happened, but that is where the story ends. It's kind of strange. Right when the transition happens. So that, it's like it makes sense, but yeah but we don't really even see like the original styles of Gucci. So it just kind of feels like an idea until it's taken away. Yeah. And um it just kind of like left me feeling tired. So for those who like really enjoy this movie or, you know, who really enjoy all of the costumes in this movie, I'm curious how many people –
Speaker: know more about the research that went into it or know more about these people in this period you know like maybe if that is enhancing their enjoyment like some folks out there maybe but it happened we watched her We did. A ringing endorsement. I know. it was just kind of disappointing because I expected it to be more fun of an experience watching it. And so it was sort of just like a bit of a letdown and um yeah, about like a fashion house that I'm not particularly interested in or enamored of and no have never had a desire to own a Gucci bag or any of that stuff. So, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, so it just, okay it didn't, it didn't quite hit for us, but that's all right. Yeah, that's all ah Definitely look into Gentiate's other work.
Speaker: Yeah, please. I mean, yeah, like so sorry be such a big fan of what she did, but you know, she's done so many amazing projects that her legacy cannot be made or break broken, made or broken by this movie. Can't be make or break. Make or break.
Speaker: I talk real good. um Especially when we watch this at like eight and nine in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, I am curious because I believe the next movie that we're doing is one that neither of us have seen as well. So it'll be interesting to um hopefully have a change of perspective. And you know what? I'm going to watch that one at an 8 a.m. time, too. just yeah yeah the air Just to compare what my reaction is at that time. Yeah.
Speaker: I recommend going through the photos on IMDb and looking at some of these costume pieces. If you want to try to watch this movie from costume perspective, have a taste based off of that. I recommend ah going to whatever a luxury retail is near you and going to a different store instead of Gucci and looking at something more interesting.
Speaker: Because you've seen a leather belt and you've seen loafers and you know what they look like. No disagreement from me. I love that note. Thank you for listening.
Speaker: ah Okay. We'll be back next time, hopefully next week, um with a film that has a different perspective on what fashion can do and mean. And that is a more independent, I think, film called Empire Waste that neither of us have seen. i don't think either of us knows too terribly much about it.
Speaker: No, we do not. So we get to go in blind. This will be my second one blind in a row. because like Absolutely. I knew enough about the trailer and that was it for this one. and so Same.
Speaker: I didn't know where it was going to go. Didn't know that Adam Driver was going to get murdered. Had no idea what was going to happen in this movie. I forgot about it. I opened up the Wikipedia page and went, oops. Because on IMDb it's it's like listed as like crime slash crime movie. I was like, okay, crime, crime. um Crime? What happens? Financial crime? Sure. but no, not just that.
Speaker: Murder.
Speaker: All right Empire Waste up next. Give us a listen when that comes out. Yeah. See you then. Bye. Bye.
