Transcript
Speaker: I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design. Hello, welcome
Speaker: back. It feels like it's been a very long time since we've talked to you, dear friends. Yeah. back it feels like it's been a very long time since we've talked to you dear friends um Today's movie is the long-awaited Empire Waste, directed by Claire Ayub.
Speaker: And ah the brief synopsis of IMDb is... doesn't even start solidly it just starts like the middle of a sentence oh god follows a group of teens learning to love their bodies through inclusive fashion design and friendship oh thanks imdb sweet um our costume designer for this film is francesca roth and we will of course be talking about her uh further into the episode but i do have a confession dear oh yeah yeah ah ah
Speaker: This is a podcast first for Hot Set. um I ADHDed too close to the sun and I forgot to watch this movie. Yeah. You know. and um That can happen.
Speaker: I made a delicious soup from fresh ingredients. Oh my God. I did laundry. did the dishes. Yes. But boy howdy when it was half an hour before court time. Yeah.
Speaker: remembered that I had something else that i and you thought how can I watch a 90 minute movie in 30 and I tried to but to do everything I could I watched the trailer with very close attention I I tried to go to trusty old IMDB who betrayed me, the There's so little information about the movie there. 12 photos and most of them are not photos of the costumes or the actresses. And when you go to Google, Google is no longer a reliable search engine. So, you know, you're just kind of effed.
Speaker: so You being me. So I did pull up a couple articles that I haven't read. Yeah.
Speaker: At least they're open tabs. That's a gold star. And I think that it's so amazing because – um big I feel like really great because like i emotionally have felt like where you are so much recently where I'm just like I don't know what's happening but I am here. I did show up. Yep.
Speaker: And – I don't think it's going to stop us from having a really fun conversation about this movie in any way. So I'm like, it's whatever. yeah And we can talk through it. and I'm very excited to look.
Speaker: But I did sign on to this call. Like, hi, how are you? I have something to confess. I'm so sorry. Yeah, there was a very like heartfelt moment. And I'm like, truly, it was unnecessary because I'm like, so unbothered. Like, I'm so not worried about it in any way, shape or form. My face hurts. And maybe part of it is just like the senioritis of like this being the second to last episode of the season where I'm like, listen, to even have gotten through this season of the show, like the things that were happening offline,
Speaker: you know like i'm just i'm just proud of us for taking this season of the show do you know i agree this year 2026 has been a real kick in the teeth and like yeah it's it's been it's been a hard one so it's been like a high point for me to look forward to recording these episodes except for maybe the house of gucci no sorry not sorry house of gucci yeah um but like fine Like this movie I am going to watch because it looks really sweet. Yeah. And like I i want to support movies that are sweet even though I sound like i being so sarcastic right now. I want to support movies that are sweet. Whatever. The support friendship and inclusion. Whoa.
Speaker: through the power of fashion what I did see in the trailer looks great and it's like it's kind of building on a fantasy that is very like uplifting and so not the friendship part or the inclusive part those things could be made reality but like okay just to get into the little that I know yeah why don't you tell us what the movie is about ah
Speaker: So from what I can glean, this is plot recap time. This is also the audacity of me. but It's just one thing that they really focus on in the trailer. Yeah. Which is that we have like our main character. Her name is Lenore. Lenore. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.
Speaker: And she is, it seems like she's bullied. She's like experiencing a lot of not so great. is This is like high school, high school experience. Yeah. And she's kind of like a secret fashionista where she has like all of these incredible clothes that she has built and just hasn't gotten to the place where she feels comfortable putting them out there in the world. Yeah. And there's this scene in the trailer.
Speaker: Where um her friend, ah Kayla. Kayla.
Speaker: She's like finds these clothes hanging in this closet. yes And it's just like this. It's a lot of like dresses and and things that are hanging and they've they're probably like really nicely pressed. But the way she pulls them out and she's like, you made all of these? And I'm like, let's talk about that. but yeah That's the fantasy that I'm zeroing in on where there's this like thing in coming of age movies where frequently there's a character who has like a special interest or a special skill and they are further along in their educational journey or their development than other people are. Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm like, okay, well, Lenore could open up a fucking storefront. Like, yes she's there. right like She's ready. Like, good for you, girl. Like, there's nowhere to go but up from here. like yeah you understand pattern making. You understand grading.
Speaker: and'm like... You understand techniques that are pretty complicated. Like when you're first learning how to sew, like yeah good for you. And also I was not this teenager. Good Lord. No. my God. It's a little bit like, it's interesting. So in the movie that, that scene happens pretty early in the movie. um We, we,
Speaker: We meet Lenore in like a VO at the beginning and she talks about how to how to be invisible. And she says that um if you like don't talk to people and you just wear like plain black clothes all the time and just like don't ever like do anything.
Speaker: Um, outwardly, like people will just ignore you and you will be invisible in school. Um, although we do see that it's not really the case because people make a lot of jokes at her expense and all of them are related to her size.
Speaker: And, um, But from the beginning, she's got this closet full of all of these like wild, outrageous, like colorful, beautiful clothes. We see her room. She's got dress form. She's got a sewing machine. She's got like mood boards and sketches and swatches. ah I'm not really sure who's bankrolling the fabric i'm purchasing. That alone is like...
Speaker: That's pretty cool that you've got a parent who's like, yes, let us go to the fabric store and yeah let's get you enough for your 12, like, dresses that you're making this weekend. Yeah. Zip, zip.
Speaker: There is a – so it's, like, there's a great, like, little montage of her, like – she's like sketching like the pencil drawing at school in class. And then it's like, she's going home and she's like making like the color version of the rendering. And then she's like pulling out the dress form and she's like doing some patterning. And then she's like sewing the dress. And we have this like finished dress. It's very cute, very fun style. And she like holds it up in front of her in the mirror. And then she like puts it in the closet and she doesn't ever put them on. um
Speaker: You don't find out until about three quarters into the movie that she does not make the clothes in her size. She makes them for a future skinny version of herself.
Speaker: And it is so sad. oh yeah And I was wondering about that because I was like looking at the dress form that she pulls out and I was like, because it's not like a true like professional fashion dress form. It's like more like those display ones that they would have like in a store. Like a mannequin. Yeah, it's more of a mannequin. um But I was like...
Speaker: I wonder why she has a like mannequin dress form that's so small if she's making her own clothes. And that just kind of goes unanswered and uncommented on until pretty late in the movie. She's having like a serious kind of heart-to-heart moment with Kayla.
Speaker: and She said Kayla said like she's she's Lenore's been like asked kind of on a date by like a guy that she likes and she is too scared to go. And Kayla's trying to, you know, convince her to like give it a chance and like in enjoy her life and in accept that like this boy likes her.
Speaker: And she's like, you have this whole closet of all of these beautiful dresses. Like, why don't you just wear one of those and like go on this date? And she's like, i can't. They don't fit. They're not for me. And she's like, what are you talking about? And she's like, they're for the future. She's like, I make everything in the size that I should be. ah ah And it's so, so sad. and something that I think is so interesting in this movie
Speaker: Is that it explores like all a lot of the different places that you get these messages from. And obviously there's like the mean girl at school who's like very thin and like naturally thin and is like just like a cartoon villain.
Speaker: But the other like villain of the story is Lenore's mom.
Speaker: Yeah. And it's so, I think, familiar to a lot of people to have her mom constantly fixating on her weight and saying that it's just because she wants her to be healthy and happy.
Speaker: And how fucking toxic that is. Yeah, that's a conversation I think many people have had and many people can still have because we have so far to go Like we're in a time right now where this is the kind of movie that's really applicable to folks of that age because it's like we just went through six years ago.
Speaker: being quarantined in the pandemic, all of our routines being disrupted and some people, you know, eating emotionally, some people going out and getting super fit by hiking and doing all of these things that could take them outside and not around a ton of people.
Speaker: And the messaging then was, we're all going to be kind to each other. Because however we come out of this, we came out healthy we came out okay yeah and then that disappeared super fast and now we're in ozempic times yeah and it's just i don't know about and don't know much about ozempic because you and i have both grown up during so many different fads and like yeah we'd
Speaker: now I don't remember the ones that were basically speed, but like – Sure, but they were there. were there. They were there. like, you know, there's just like these massive fads that like here's the answer and then here's the laundry list of side effects and, you know, all these things. And just like the mental waste bin that like many – I'm going to speak for you. Many people, because it's not just limited to women – ah that they were just like swimming in yeah like in our developing years and like I had women in my life do this women who loved me that I loved very very much and like I'm adopted so I'm from a different genetic line than these women and like my grandmother laugh because she was like maybe on a good day if she teased her hair 5'1 like she was tiny she was yeah bird boned and she was Sicilian American and she was second generation maybe first generation um American. And so she was very tiny. She was born in 1927. she was born during the depression as the last of seven children. And then, you know, was growing up during world war II. And like when you're growing up, know,
Speaker: going through things like that it's not limited to world war ii it's still happening today but when you're growing up through times of scarcity yeah your body responds to that yeah in some type of way or another right where it does whatever it can to survive and sometimes it kind of like cannibalizes its own muscles and all those things so like you're never going to gain a ton of weight because developmentally Yeah. Isn't that like sort of the explanation of what happened to like Audrey Hepburn? Yeah. She grew up in – She was like eating grass. Yeah. Yeah. Dutch, I think, and like in the Netherlands and had to eat grass to survive. um So it's like, yeah, your body just kind of like stops. And so that – because like Audrey Hepburn, gorgeous, right?
Speaker: But she also was famous. And so that she became – against her own will, like it wasn't from her, it was about her, this like face of what beauty is. yeah and that's frequently what happens. And so it's like my grandmother was one of those women who was itty bitty and never, you know, ever in her life weighed more than I'm going to say 110 pounds. yeah And I was pounds I was like eleven and so i was also taller than her by the time that I was 11. And she had all of these clothes that she bought when she would go visit my mom in New York. And they still had – like this is a massive family story that I'm not going to dive into. Yeah.
Speaker: they they could have paid for me to go through college, I think, because they all still had their tags on and they were all from major department stores in New York and they were like massive labels. Yeah, collected items. Incredible. And she like never wore any of them. Yeah. And the only thing that I could fit when I was 10 years old of this adult woman's wardrobe was a pair of shorts when I was 10. And I could only wear them for like six months. Yeah. was done. And it wasn't because I was like,
Speaker: doing anything insane. It's because I have a different body type from a different series of genetics. And so she would spend so much time, because I spent a lot of time with her, because my mom was a flight attendant, telling me to go outside. And like there were no kids. There was nowhere for me to go. and it's like at home, I would ride my bike everywhere. It's summer camp with like ride horses YMCA. Like I was physical, but I just like wasn't constantly doing stuff at my grandmother's house because there was nothing to do. So I was reading or like watching TV because we didn't have cable TV at home. And she'd like, you should go outside. You need to move around. Like you've got lose some weight. Starting from the time that I was 10 years old. Yeah. And I was like, I'm bigger than – I'm like two of you. but
Speaker: And that's not something I have any control over. no And it's like... Throughout the movie. So the mom is played by Missy Pyle, which is like an amazing character actress. She's very good in the movie. That's it's I think she does a very good job with the performance because um she's like so internalized these sort of like toxic things that she doesn't see that what she's doing is harmful. Like she doesn't get Yeah.
Speaker: And she's able to have like a little bit of character growth by the end of the movie of like, but there's there's a couple. And the dad is played by Rainn Wilson. Crazy. um And he's much more like...
Speaker: accepting parent um but throughout the movie you see Missy Pyle she's like constantly on her freaking like Peloton bike she's got like a mirror in front of it so she's like watching herself work out actual nightmare actual nightmare there's post-its on the mirror terrifying terrifying woman terrifying um Making like green smoothies that taste awful, like policing how much food her daughter's eating, constantly saying things to her daughter like, you know, like, don't put yourself out there because you will be ridiculed and I'm just trying to help you. Like, it's really toxic. Yeah.
Speaker: But there's a really interesting moment in the movie, that like a very like intense conversation between the parents or the dad being like, you need to stop treating our daughter this way. yeah And he says to the mom, he says to Missy Pyle...
Speaker: I don't want you to treat our daughter the way that you treat yourself. And and it was like, oh my God, just like a punch to the gut of like so much about like the way that people raise their children.
Speaker: and it's like, damn, like it was, it was a really like impactful. ah Like I thought it was a really interesting way to portray the parents because it It felt a little bit more nuanced than some other sort of like empowerment, like yeah media where it's like, yeah, sometimes the toxicity starts at home. It's not solely outside and you don't always have this like magical dynamic at home.
Speaker: Right. and you see how lenore just slowly has like shut her mom out of her life even though they live together because she's still in high school that like she doesn't tell her mom what she's doing because she doesn't want to deal with the conversation because nothing's safe because nothing's safe and it was so um I don't know that I've seen a movie of this genre like explore the complexity of those dynamics as much. yeah And there is a little bit of like positive growth by the end of the movie. The mom is able to like support her a little bit more. And it's certainly not like this moment where it's like, oh, everything's 100% fixed. But like,
Speaker: You see her mom kind of realize that, like, basically her daughter doesn't want her there because she knows that she's not going to be supportive. And she's like, oh, no, like I got to turn this around.
Speaker: So it's like really intense. And then of course, like you have like the cartoon villain of like the mean girl at school that seems to have it out for these girls for no, absolutely like no reason other than she's just like horrible. And then you have like the...
Speaker: the really, really toxic like teenage boys that are like constantly making like fat jokes about like the girls in the movie. But at the same time, like one of them is like genuinely...
Speaker: like interested and attracted to Kayla and like does want to have like a romantic relationship with her and also like turns around and like betrays her and like takes a photo of her in an intimate moment and shares it with the school. Like there's so much going on in this movie.
Speaker: Like they pack it in and they design clothes, which is cool. It's just like, I feel like... What I was like blown away by with the character, right, is that obviously trailer the character is like being established of Lenore as somebody who's going through a lot. yeah Because being a teenager, could not pay me to go back and do it again. Not even a little bit. And like she's going through a lot coming from all sides, but she still has so much passion
Speaker: for creation and for fabrication that she's still doing it even if it's becoming painful because she's like realizing her pain by not making these things for her to wear because she doesn't think that she's like worth it it right now like That just goes to show how how much she has in her.
Speaker: Yeah. To do that. Yeah. And it's great because like, you know, the movie starts and Lenore is like extremely withdrawn. Like no one at school. Like she doesn't have any friends. Like people don't know who she is.
Speaker: And she gets paired up to work with Kayla on this project in class because... um Like Lenore doesn't have anyone to work with and they have to like pair up because that is the nightmare that is like classes in high school. just suffering. Yeah. And Kayla like comes in late, but she comes in, in this wonderful, loud, vibrant outfit where she's got this like beautiful, like plaid, bright plaid, like mini skirt and this like fur coat. That's like,
Speaker: primary like candy colors and she comes in and she's got like so much um charisma and so much like confidence and So she discovers the closet of clothes because they're working on this project together. And so she's like, I want to commission you to make me an outfit because clearly you know how. And I love clothes and I want to wear something cool. So Lenore starts by being like the designer for Kayla and making her all of these custom outfits.
Speaker: Outfits that are like beautiful and like bold and like very like flattering and look so cute on her and are just like things that are not commercially available in Kayla's size because she is also like a larger girl.
Speaker: and So, like, the the word kind of gets out that Lenore is, like, a designer. And it's, like, Kayla's influence of, like, pushing her to, like, enter this competition and, like, basically, like, make everyone know that she has all these skills and knows how to do this. And even... And it's, like, they don't really, like, try to force Lenore to, like, wear the stuff until, like, pretty late in the movie. She spends most of the movie in, like...
Speaker: black, gray, a little bit of like a plummy like dark purple like she's in very plain very unassuming clothes and she like makes clothes for the other girls at school and um when she decides this and to enter this competition she needs like more people to be like models so she like recruits other girls to do it and the ones that want to
Speaker: are all you know like quote unquote like outcast like kind of girls so they're all people that don't have like a traditionally celebrated body i would say um and it's so great because she She doesn't just make them clothes. She talks to them about what they want. Yeah. Which, as somebody who did not watch this movie, but, you know, I'll serve as person bringing in some real world stuff. Yes, please.
Speaker: ah Learning how to sew in school, if you're getting a degree, if you're going to a fashion school, I can't speak to how it is today because I got my degree a few years back. But like I was astounded even then that the only but like body shapes available, the only dress forms available were size six. Yeah.
Speaker: And so that's still a standard that is um enforced. And like, i don't know if the students that I was because like my, my schooling was like so all over the place. It's like a mishmash of different schools. So I can't like,
Speaker: firmly say But very often people are not taught how to pad dress forms in order to achieve different body shapes and sizes. They are not taught to grade or pattern for different body shape there should be shapes. I can talk about it.
Speaker: Or needs like these are just not skills that are taught unless schools are providing specific classes that you can elect into. But it's it's not like a fully baked in.
Speaker: um mandatory thing. yeah And it's like, it's kind of the same thing for like, you know, people learning how to do natural, how to do hair. A lot of people aren't taught how to do natural hair as like a matter of course, which they should be. And so it's just this like, one of yet another thing where it's like, I'm not shocked, but I'm also pissed that these things they're just like not accessible yeah not shocked but disappointed disappointed you're grounded like it's you know you go into a store and i i had a meltdown years ago when i was mid-20s because like i wasn't at my largest yet because covid and i did a dance and i came out multiple but like yeah
Speaker: I was, it's just like fashion is so cruel and so stupid because we all need clothes, right? We all dress. That's just a societal thing. We're not a nudist culture. And so we wear clothing, but fashion decides who's allowed to wear clothing that is interesting or comfortable. And right now we're not always in this situation.
Speaker: era of comfortable clothing unless it's like at leisure and even that is sometimes not comfortable well and then you get certain companies being like well we don't want you to wear our clothes unless you're below certain size and you know we all have feelings about the lemon get fucked. and so It's a cult, by the way. yeah Amazing to learn about. um Transparent when you see it. But like, I remember going into a Target, which by the way, F Target. I mean, yes. This was a long time ago.
Speaker: And I went in to just go buy a bra. Yeah. And the only things that were available in my size were white, black, or nude. There was nothing else. Everywhere else in that section, every other size had so much choice. And then you get to a certain size and you have no choice. You are forced to dress. They're you don't get be cute. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like a joke now, but people growing up when we were growing up,
Speaker: They're like, they refer to a lot of like the clothes that we wore as like this weird like business casual, which is true. it' Absolutely. We've talked about this. And the larger you were, the more you were forced to dress like a secretary at a midsize company. They're put this ill-fitting blazer on. yeah i got It was like the only things that you had available were essentially what pregnant women were offered, pregnant bodies were offered or middle-aged women.
Speaker: Yes. Ladies. And I would get looks when I was like even 18 when I was shopping because I wasn't plus size then. i am now. But it's like I was like a size 12 and I'd be shopping in like junior because for God's sake, I'm not buying the same clothes that my mother is buying. Like they look great on my mother, but we have 40 years between us. Yeah.
Speaker: Leave me alone. Well, and it was it was interesting for me personally watching this movie, because when she talked about how the clothes that she made were like for her future skinny self. Yeah. and she said her friend said, like, well, what size is she? like what size do you have to be in order to be like worthy?
Speaker: And she says size 10. And I was like, it was fascinating to me because I'm like, okay, so when I was the age of this character, i was a size 10. And guess what? I did not feel good about myself. Nope.
Speaker: And like I was a size 12 when I was in, it was like 11, which is a junior size, right? Because it's an odd number. The odd numbers. 11, 12 when i was like... middle school and then I was that size until I was about 29, 30.
Speaker: And it's like people act as if that's a plus size. They Because the runway it is. Yeah. And in 2004, it certainly was. Yes. And that was so upsetting because like we did the body shaming of of our world is so stupid. And so it's like, even though I only saw a few minutes of clips of this movie. Thank you, trailer.
Speaker: Everything that I saw that Kayla was wearing was so great. Yes. Because she was not trying to hide herself. And Lenore is obviously an example of how fashion puts you in a corner and how when you aren't feeling good about yourself, no matter what size or shape you are, it's very often like to be goth is to be goth. That's different. Of course. conus To be punk to be punk. Absolutely. Embracing the color black in your wardrobe is is its own thing. Completely. but That is not what she was No. If you're just trying to disappear –
Speaker: into the background and not be remarked on or looked at that takes up so much space in your brain. and it like, it just sucks. I can't even get academic about that. Like it just sucks. yeah And so it's like watching someone who has confidence But it's like that's not the only piece of their character is like an important thing. And I feel like yeah from what I'm hearing and what I saw very briefly, Kayla as a character can offer that. And her wardrobe offers that like you can be you And it's not a problem to be seen.
Speaker: and like who cares? Like yeah does this make you feel good? Right. Right. And you I think it would be really easy for her character to be like relegated to that sort of inspirational whatever. But she is, I think, more complex as a character than that. She like has her own um history that we like learn about and how she arrived at that.
Speaker: the place that she is. And then we also see her in the movie go through her own sort of crisis of confidence when the like photo of her gets shared around the school where it's like, you see the sort of crumbling of her confidence and having to like come back to it. And um which ah I think is interesting because it's like,
Speaker: I do think it's true that like you do, you know, need to have self-acceptance and confidence, but like people doing horrible things to you doesn't make like that still affects you. and you know, so like um I think there's a good amount of.
Speaker: of humanity in all of the characters like I think it's it does a good job if even of the characters that you don't have a lot of sympathy for that they have complexity yeah other than the sort of like cartoon villain mean girl um but I do appreciate that the sort of like inevitable confrontation with her is Lenore being like, wow, you must really fucking hate yourself for you to do all this.
Speaker: And I wanted her to punch her in the face, which she did not do And I wanted her to get like covered in like pudding or something, which did not happen.
Speaker: um but whatever. Sometimes that doesn't happen in real life either. I know. It's ah so unfair. But um there is also like an implication that um because like the the mean girl seems to really have it out for Kayla in particular more than anyone else and is this sort of she's wrapped up in the sharing of the photo. Um, although she does not, she does not actually like, she's not fully responsible for it, but she does participate in spreading it. But, um,
Speaker: they're In the backstory of Kayla, you find out that she used to be a ballet dancer at the like Mean Girls Mom's studio. And she was the best dancer. But then when she sort of like started entering puberty and started gaining weight, the mom was sort of like, you can't be a dancer anymore because youre you don't look like a ballet dancer anymore.
Speaker: ended but there is a comment made about how when she was like the star dancer that like... that the The mean girl. God, I can't even remember her name because it was so unimportant. um The mean girl was very jealous because she was the mom's favorite. Like the Kayla was the mom's favorite and not her own daughter. So you like see how like that sort of toxicity gets like wrapped up into her like hatred of this character.
Speaker: and it doesn't it doesn't make her less of like a cartoon villain but it does kind of like have a little bit of like a kernel of like how um like awful all and complex all of these like problems can be yeah that results in you just like bullying the shit out of somebody um for so many things but uh Yeah, I think there was definitely something I thought was interesting watching the movie with um with Lenore expressly saying that like she wears all black in an attempt to like sort of disappear.
Speaker: think... think anyone else in the movie wears black except her. yeah Which I thought was interesting. That's a great detail. Even like background, all the kids at the school. i don't think anyone else wears black in the movie. Not significantly.
Speaker: Other than her, maybe like her mom has like a pair of black pants on at one point, but like everything else is so much more like bright and colorful and has like patterns and has textures and has like volume and like all of these things except for Lenore. And I thought that was an interesting design choice. That's a great design choice. Yeah.
Speaker: And like it just, i don't know. I just love these like kind of subtleties where like you look back and you're like, oh, you were standing out in a way that you didn't intend to. and like you were still standing out and not for the reasons that you worried you were like yeah you were just stepping back from participating yeah like that shows and what i can see in these pictures of the different cast members who become part of her group of friends is like we have so many different body types on display and like
Speaker: They're all wearing colorful things or things that have a lot of accents and like just visual stuff going on, which is like awesome, like different straps, different seam lines, like all of these different things that.
Speaker: I feel like you have to kind of gravitate towards small, uh, clothing companies when you're actually looking for things to wear, yeah um in order to access, because God forbid anybody who isn't a straight size wear something that looks lively and colorful. And like, there are a few, um I think one's the poster and then there's like another thing from the trailer with Kayla wearing this like halter, not halter, crop top, these crop tops that have like almost like bralette, like structural seam lines. Yeah. Yeah. She seems to really embrace
Speaker: crops and like high-waisted things and like shorter lengths and just like a lot of patterning and texture and a lot of like fun stuff and what it makes me think of a lot is um melissa mccarthy Totally. And how Melissa McCarthy was very vocal when she started hitting big, big red carpets about nobody was dressing her. And like there are a couple other actresses and performers who've been like, yeah, fashion houses like literally say like, we won't dress you. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's the little lemon shit. And like Melissa McCarthy was like, fine, fuck you. I will start designing shit and making stuff because this is so stupid. And guess who comes out on top? It's fucking Melissa McCarthy because she looks gorgeous. Absolutely. And I think – She studied fashion in school to some extent. she So she at least like. She has some background. Yeah. She's not just like licensing her name. Yeah. She's like actively participating. And that she was like, I'm going to wear this. I'm going to want to know that it suits me. And so she started to make things that fit fashion.
Speaker: Her body and her personality and my God, like from zero to a million on the like comfortability scale and just seeing her natural beauty shine through. and it's like when we talk about fashion, when we talk about costuming, there are countless...
Speaker: labels and costume designers on any scale who are scared of dressing bodies that are not straight sizes and shapes because of whatever reason the reasons kind of don't matter and like regardless of whether or not they're from fear or like judgment they all suck and it's like i would love for the audience again this is so audacious for the person who didn't watch the movie to intrigue the audience but just to when you're looking at costumes or clothing out in the world kind of celebrate what you see that is celebrating the person's body that it is on because we're all you know fast fashion kind of forces us to just
Speaker: wear the clothes. The clothes are kind of wearing us, really. and um and so it's like any time you see somebody who is...
Speaker: like shining, like because they've altered something or they just are embracing their own personal style. If you feel a tinge of like, the like a reluctance or something, I don't know, question that. Yeah, think about it And think about how if, you know, someone – Is wearing something unique that suits their body that they found a fashion company that makes those things or perhaps they make them themselves. And the knowledge that had to go into that and the skill building because like I don't know how to – my grading knowledge is pretty basic and it's based off of corset construction. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And so it's like pretty fricking basic. And like I can do grading, but usually I'm the the target goal. Right. Yeah. farg Whichever way you want to say words. um Or if it's like I'm working on a production, it's a specific one person. Well, that's the thing. I think that that doing costumes, like even especially for like theater performance, it's is much closer to couture than is a lot of fashion production because we are making a very specific complex garment for a very specific person. we're not making it for a great number of people to all within a range. No. And that was something that I was trying to impart ah because I'm
Speaker: teaching right now. Which, by the way, ah pause a little bit of motion for that. It's insane to me. that's Teaching tailoring over here. Insane. um But it was something that I was trying to ah impart ah to the students in the class that the difference between sewing for fashion and sewing for theater is like for fashion, you're like, i am making this jacket in a size 10. And in theater, you're like, I am making this jacket to fit that person. And the amount of, um you know, specific time and care that you take in to fit that person
Speaker: is what it is, as opposed to being like, well, we made a size 10 and she's kind of a size 10. So here it is like, no no no no, no, no, And just to jump off of that diving board a conversation we've definitely touched before. that is like such a personal, every time I hear it, it's like, I feel like in my experience, folks from a costuming background, whenever we talk about fashion, because there is a dotted line in between the two, it's if there are different purposes. yeah So there's a little bit more respect. So when folks from a costuming background are talking about fashion, it's like, okay, well, the purpose is different.
Speaker: You know, you're trying to make something that fits a larger, number of people yeah and like can kind of fit and so we have like a little bit more grace and how we talk about fashion as an industry every single person even somebody i love very much who's a friend who started studying fashion in the past few years has done this uh there's this attitude that costume is a poorer industry Yeah. And it's so – The quality of our work is poorer. Yes. Because it's meant to be temporary. It's always rough. It's always this or that or the other thing. And ah I just have to say,
Speaker: No. And it can be. And many of us have an issue when it is because it's not what we would choose. It's either something that like has to be done on the spot. Like it's a desperation thing that it has to just like be. course Listen, all these people on Project Runway having like a meltdown by having to make like one outfit in a size zero in a day. I'm like, baby child. Yeah. Call me when you have to do something hard.
Speaker: I'm so sorry. Your tent dress with three seams that is made to fit a girl who's 5'11 and weighs 65 pounds. You're having a hard time sewing three seams? I genuinely feel that way because it's like, okay, the way that people like to...
Speaker: to kind of look down on costuming is because they go the couture line, right? Where they're like, okay, well, everything we do is very precise and very finished. And it's like, that may be so, but we also have the ability to do that. And like, sometimes we do, but we still make it adjustable because it needs to have a long life and it needs to live for like 60 performances. Like, Also, like, I'm sure you're not for five performances shows, not shows like performance. Yeah. Shows. Different shows. Different shows. Decades. Multiple. But also, like, I'm sure your dress looks great in a runway for 10 minutes. How about this person wearing the dress has to go through an entire emotional breakdown and then murder someone Every day in that dress. And it has to hold Eight times a week.
Speaker: Like she, this, she's got to experience like ah Oedipus in this dress. Like Jocasta has got to survive. i always point at, if you've ever been in a ah costume warehouse, like,
Speaker: like an actual attached to a theater or like a rental space that has thousands and thousands and thousands of costumes that were built, not just purchased. um You will find stuff from decades and decades before. And sometimes you'll find things that were actual garments that,
Speaker: people, regular people wore in like the 1800s that somehow made it down and somebody bought it vintage and then revitalized it a little bit by tightening seams or repairing things. And those things still survive because it's like, we have to know how to keep those things living. And like, we need to keep using them over and over and over again.
Speaker: And so like we have a lot more flexibility, I think, in our skill sets because our demands are wider. And so it's like our scope is a little bit wider in the way that fashion is wider audience, if you will, like who's wearing the garments.
Speaker: But it's like every time I think about that, people are just like shitting on costume for not being like structurally sound. And that always just like gets me. So I have to. Absolute comedy. Yell about it wherever I can. Absolute comedy. I do want to draw attention to a quote from the movie that I wrote down because I think that you will appreciate it. Yay. Learning about it for the first time.
Speaker: So when when Lenore is like, okay, I'm going to enter this fashion contest – And I need to recruit more models because I need to make multiple outfits to submit to this contest. Right. So they're recruiting more girls to like be part of their team for this. And So Kayla and Lenore are like sitting on one side of the table in the cafeteria and like the girls that are potentially, you know, going to be joining them are on the other side. and um
Speaker: Kayla's the pitch man. She's trying to hype them up and get them to join. And Lenore is still like very reserved and whatever. And so Kayla's like, okay, this is what's going to happen. Um,
Speaker: Lenore's going to design your outfits and then she's going to use her fashion magic to make them real. And Lenore goes, headda hold on. She says, no, I take very specific measurements and I tailor each garment to fit the person wearing And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fashion magic. And I thought that you in particular would appreciate that quote. That is exactly a thing that I've talked about so many times. we're talking about theatrical costuming, which is when a director or someone above you who you have to fight for budget and fight. I say that very dramatically, but it's like there's resistance to your functional needs or there's a genuine break in understanding what the fundamentals of your job is because people love to just –
Speaker: ah hand wave and go you just, ah you make magic happen. And it's like, no, this is an actual tactile, real world, real time thing that is happening. Sweat is being sweat. There's frustration and cussing and blood being pricked by needles. Like this is a real...
Speaker: b It's work. It's work. The same way that someone building a set is working. And that's a thing that is not often thrown at the more traditionally, quote unquote, masculine fields like scenic or lighting, right? And so it...
Speaker: It infuriates, not just me, but many of us, because when it's traditionally more a women-led industry, the word magic is thrown at it. And it's so invalidating. And like the character of Kayla trying to be, here I am coming in and talking about the actual movie. Yeah.
Speaker: ah I'm assuming trying to be supportive friend. Absolutely. Absolutely. But she is accidentally being very invalidating of the skills and the time and the effort that it takes to make those things happen. yeah And so it's like,
Speaker: Please don't do that. like ah um My go-to response to that sort of tactic of of people ah like people assuming that it is simply easier to do costumes, which is absolutely incorrect. It's just I'm just like, there's a reel going through my head of all the... Yes. Because you and I have both worked in educational theater for quite a few years. And like, not only ourselves, but our co-workers and our students that we have worked with and beside, um the the the mental breakdowns, the emotional breakdowns, the chaos, the the struggling, it's it doesn't just...
Speaker: there's no magic involved and so my sort of like ah i don't know if it's like a mantra or whatever to that sort of particularly toxic idea that whatever that it's this magical thing whatever it's just um no actually I just make it look easy because I know what the fuck I'm doing yep amazing And just for the listener who did not have the visual, there was a glasses adjustment with an eyes closed beat that was very amazing.
Speaker: ok And I do think that's a theme of this movie is sort of like stepping into power and stepping into um recognizing the skills that you have. And I think of that's nice. I think it's great. I love that as a message. And like like how you were saying that there's some some more depth in this movie than you usually find for coming of age movie for different characters. That's that's a little bit more of a depth to that message. um That it's not just about how you look.
Speaker: It's about how you feel and how you accept your power but in all of its different shapes. I do have a question for you the person who watched the movie. The expert. um The expert on this. film um What is kind of, I guess, a two-parter. um How did you feel about the character of Lenore's um fashion designs and what were your favorite looks?
Speaker: Oh my gosh. Okay. um Well, lenore as a designer, is a girl after my own heart in her use of color.
Speaker: um Everything was at a 10 color-wise constantly, which is where I feel comfortable. The saturation was magnificent. um There was a lot of nice texture. um There was a lot of like tool details. um There was a lot of like layering and like putting like sheer layers but i would say i thought it was a nice i thought it struck a really nice tone because it was very like fun and playful but it did look like stuff that would be attractive to teenagers yeah so i felt like it
Speaker: it It kind of reminded me of like the stuff that we were talking about for last night in Soho, where it felt like where a young designer would be in terms of like their skill set and their development.
Speaker: So we see these like isolated pieces like throughout the movie. She makes a lot of clothes for Kayla. Then she starts making clothes for like the other girls. um We've seen all the stuff that she's like made for herself that she doesn't wear. um at one point in the movie, she like takes one of the dresses that she had made and like...
Speaker: ah for her so For her, quote, future self. And she, like, rips it apart and, like, refashions it into something that actually fits her. And it's, like, a very nice moment. um And then we see at the end she does a like, small runway collection for this, like, young designers competition. um and I thought it was very appropriate. Like some of the some of the pieces, especially in that final collection, worse ah some more simple shapes. Like everything looked really good on the girls, but some of them were um a little bit more...
Speaker: simple in their construction, but everything felt obviously is it like a very high level of skill being displayed, but it did feel like more accessible to someone that is like 16 and what they would be able to make. Um,
Speaker: So I enjoyed that stuff. I liked that the final fashion show, there were two, the two other like finalists that were being considered. and so we got to see like their stuff too. Nice.
Speaker: And the first designer that we, first of all, the runway show was hosted and like adjudicated by Stacy from What Not to Wear. oh no. Oh oh Okay. I know that she's been on a tour the past couple years of talking about like ah trying to kind of like rehab her image rehab her image from that fucking show. That show is a terrorist act. Like it is.
Speaker: The whole premise, in case you don't know what it is, is basically like you're elected by family and friends who like submit for you, I think, sometimes. They do. The person usually doesn't know. Because they're like, oh, this person has horrible taste. need somebody to fix their wardrobe. And then these two people would come in.
Speaker: throw away all these people's clothes and like mock them the whole time. and I remember that there was one person who was this lovely young woman who was very into Lolita fashion. and like she didn't wear Lolita very often like ah to work or anything. It was usually in her personal time but she was beginning to incorporate subtler lolita things which is really like victorian-esque stuff yeah victorian fantasy and like just incorporating that into her work clothes and people were just so hideous about her and i'm just like stacy you might be rehabbing your image but i'm never gonna forgive her for that I will say as someone who used to avidly watch that show ah that i I think I mean there were many times where I was like they are correct this person does need this um but I would say like the main thing that I appreciated on that show was actually like the hair makeover aspect of it they did do a lot of much more flattering like haircut situations on people which I did appreciate that
Speaker: and I think it was just their delivery. there It was like criminal. It was so criminal. They were so like, I'm so sorry to Gen Z because the world that they've stepped into is such a fucking nightmare. but like Millennials were bullied from beginning to end. Like there was no corner of life where someone wasn't standing there telling you that you were awful. And that show that was supposed to be empowering was like, you're the worst and you need help. And I'm so sorry to Gen Z, but they do couldn't handle it. They could not handle um
Speaker: To quote my favorite um singer, ah Miss Taylor Allison Swift herself, you wouldn't last an hour in the asylum where they raised me. but
Speaker: They have no idea. The like toxic petri dish that were all raised in. And it's like, I'm not going to like, you know, finger wag at the younger generations, but there is a difference, right? That we all know, which is that Gen Z, Gen Alpha, their entire lives have been documented in a way that ours were not. Oh, yeah. I would never want to be one of them. And like, I mean, I had stalkers in my own family because I was the first child. And so like there were laundry baskets full of photos. Like it was too much. were being papped constantly.
Speaker: so You know, every kid hits that point where they look at a camera and they do a dumb smile because they're sick of it. And I hit that young because I was like, you've heard your photos. And yeah.
Speaker: But at least I knew when that camera was gone, I wasn't being recorded by a stranger. Like that was it. And so that has created a fear in Gen Z and Gen Alpha that are different because like the phrase that I always use, To be cringe is to be free. And like, there was no way when I was a teenager that I wasn't the cringiest fucking person in the universe or when I was a tween. Like, no way whatsoever. Went from a Catholic private school to a public school. Please. I'm so glad there's not like video evidence of how dumb and like clueless and oh my god. But no. And so it's like it's a whole different thing, but it's like we we came from a place of naivete and like hopeful ignorance that I don't know that these kids know.
Speaker: they don't. Because they've been documented since before birth. And and it's like, i I don't understand how we arrived at that point when we spent our entire lives being bullied by every aspect of society in every corner of it. So don't really understand. But yeah, Miss Stacey, I think Stacey London is her name? Anyway, she was the judge like the and the presenter. But the first um designer that we saw was presenting a ah collection that was focused on...
Speaker: As they put it in the movie, waste renewal. And it was just a lot of black pleather. And it really kind of reminded me of the derelict collection from the movie Zoolander. Which...
Speaker: It was kind of that. And the second designer, their ah ah collection was inspired by space. And it was a lot of like iridescent and spandex with ruffles. Also feels very much like a, is this teen design?
Speaker: yeah it It wasn't didn't specifically say teen, but it implied. like It just said like young, emerging designers. That feels like a teenager going borderline costumey fashion things. yeah and Yeah. And then we had Lenore. Oh, something we should mention. The title of the movie is Empire Waste. What does that have to do with anything? um There's a conversation between Lenore and Kayla when...
Speaker: Kayla's like telling her what she wants her next like custom outfit to be. And she's like, oh, I really like this dress where this the like waist seam is up really high.
Speaker: And Lenora says, oh, yeah, that's called an empire waist. It's ah that's a really good choice because that ah that cut is everyone considers it universally flattering. Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting, because like, i lot of people say that. And a lot of people say the exact opposite. I don't consider it the people who say it the opposite are not willowy tall people. Correct. and um But so they named the fashion line Empire Waste because the tagline is universally flattering, which I thought was very sweet. I think that is very sweet. And that's also very like hopeful, right? yeah Because I like Empire Waste, which by the way, if you don't know what an Empire Waste is, it is um when you think of Austin, like Jane Austen shows, ah it is that era of the early eighteen hundreds Yeah. um where it's kind of like a transitional period i would say where oh definitely the late seventeen hundreds and having like marie antoinette to but like pre-civil war and victorian it's like right in between and um yeah so it's very it's it's very flattering on slender tall bodies
Speaker: um Because it it really emphasizes your length. But if you have hips that are or bust, large bust, you have to put a lot of more effort in, I think, to the shaping and the color and the accessories. So like it can be flattering, but you have to put more thought into the body that you're dressing.
Speaker: And I do think that it does tend to be more flattering on people that do have like a larger bust. Because I feel like if you don't, and that seam is like right below, it can make you look pregnant. Yeah. Which is fine, but it's not a look that most people are going It's not a look that everybody's Yeah. So it emphasizes things that you you may not wish Want to. Yes, and yes, of course, yes, I am still unpacking body issues that created by the media about what women should and shouldn't look like. I understand. you all are We all are. It's a constant battle.
Speaker: Probably never be over. The fact that we know that they might exist puts us ahead of some people in this society. yeah um But yeah, um yes, I enjoyed her designs in the movie. Yeah.
Speaker: I thought they struck a nice chord of, I feel like sometimes the, the instinct might to be to go to these like really sort of like experimental avant-garde place. ah But that wasn't really the tone of the movie. The movie was about like celebrating bodies and celebrating uniqueness. And so the sort of like fun color, fun texture,
Speaker: um maybe a more like as established and recognizable silhouette I thought was like a nice balance to strike. Also, not to spoil spoiler alert, spoiler alert, she does not win the competition at the end. The the waste renewal derelict designer is the one that wins the competition. um But she doesn't really care. She's just happy. You know,
Speaker: I kind of love that. And that's something that happened with – I'm talking about a different movie really quick. Coyote vs. which just came out. you going go see that? I know Jonathan wants to see it, but we have not seen it yet. Okay, so no spoilers. There's something that happens that kind of upends the traditional ending of like a story that has fights where you're like fighting against something. yeah And it makes you think. And so it's like with this, with her not winning, it makes it, I feel like, again, having not seen it yet, makes it feel real. but it also makes it feel like you can keep striving and you didn't lose because you were bad.
Speaker: There was just someone else that the judges... like better yeah and so it's like it's not the end of anything it's like you did this you did it that was the winning is that you got up on a runway you got stuff up there and you did it and people saw it and people liked it and enjoyed it and it made them feel some type of way like that's the win yeah and so i like that even though there are people who are always shouting about like participation traffic kids shut shut up this conversation isn't for you um we could can we we need to do a whole separate episode that has nothing to do with clothes about that sentence that you just said and all of the implications and all of the things that i feel about all of that yep But also I think it's good. Well, i mean, it it goes back to my um sort of reduction of all sports movies that they there's only two endings for every single sports movie that's ever existed, which is we won or we lost, but we learned so many valuable lessons along the way that we actually won. and that is the only way that movies like that end. Yeah.
Speaker: And that is the only way that this movie could have ended as well. one or two. It's the friends we made along the way. It's the friends we made along the way. um But I did appreciate that within that context, she never has a moment of being disappointed that she didn't win. It's just, wow, this was such a wonderful experience. Yeah. And like, I like that about what I'm finding about her character and her journey is that it's, it's that she tried.
Speaker: And it's that she didn't hide and she didn't not do something because she was scared of it or yeah scared of how people would feel about her. So it's like, i like that there's this character who transforms her struggle with how she's looked at and how she's treated into not It's almost like a little bit more painful than not making her art, but making her art for someone who doesn't exist.
Speaker: yeah But then she is able to make these friends who are like, no, please make your art for us. Like we want we want that. It's incredible. And then she gets to see how her art changes other people's lives.
Speaker: lives for better and then she can feel better about herself in kind of like an organic way that doesn't just happen overnight and like yeah that that it shows people like it doesn't happen overnight you got to keep working at it and like surrounding yourself with people who are good to you and kind to you and even if you're good at this like as a teenager having a collection like you still have more you can learn and that's not a bad thing That's not a failure.
Speaker: That's just more steps. That's life. And well I like that. Yeah. And it's definitely like something that I have to live by in this industry that we're in is that if you ever feel like you've gotten to a point where you have nothing left to learn, then you actually have to leave this industry yeah because it's simply not true.
Speaker: And you on like you've reached a point where you're not willing to learn anything more. yeah Rather, like you don't know it all. You never will. No one ever does. It's not possible. But you've reached a point in yourself where you're not willing to learn anymore. And so you've stunted your ability to learn. And it's like a problem that no one else can fix except you. Delicious.
Speaker: But there, you know, I think you encounter that in every field or just like every ah aspect of of life. Oh, and I did want to leave with something that has actually nothing to do with the movie, but it was a really lovely ah quote. Yeah.
Speaker: ah the writing class that I am a TA for, we were watching a video with a writer um who wrote this really great book about writing. ah Shocking. um But they were, the interviewer was asking her about writer's block and how you overcome writer's block. And she said, it's not about trying harder. It's about resisting less. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that's true in a lot of artistic fields. It is. it is. yeah and I think that that's like a really important thing. Because um whenever I talk to you about directions for this podcast and who potentially we can talk to who's in the field, um I'm always thinking about questions that we can ask about their careers and about their work. And one of those is you know, like what is your practice for continuing to work? Like if you hit a wall or do you hit that wall?
Speaker: And like, what are your processes? Like, do you do this work in your personal time or is it just now in a box where you are able to do it because it's on the clock?
Speaker: And like, that's, that's a real thing. So that's a, Just keep going. Big questions. um One last thing yeah that um I see in the cast, there's someone I recognize um from social media off who played a character named Kyle.
Speaker: Do you know that character? see now yeah let me there's a few different boys. So let me make sure that I'm picking the right person before I start talking about Kyle. So this actor's name is Joe Ando Hirsch. And his social media is that he is a fashion designer.
Speaker: Oh. And he makes amazing stuff. And he used to make clothes for his partner who would, you know, like model them on his channel. And then he's kind of grown his audience so much that now he's made things for like artists and actresses and things. But um I feel like his social media stuff, because i don't I can't remember his background, but I'm sure it's a fashion background. But it's like basically him...
Speaker: Just getting better and better and better and bigger and bigger and bigger with what he makes. And so ah take a look at his work um because he seems like a very positive force.
Speaker: Well, his character is not. Yeah. but He is the one that takes the photo of Kayla and distributes it. I was worried that that would make a case. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. No. So um we don't love the character. can endorse Kyle, but we can endorse. We can endorse. Yeah. endovers And just taking a look at his work because um I think that he's like very good at the social media stuff, but it was just like very fun over the last like six years. I haven't checked in on his stuff in a long time, but – to see him kind of grow in his like curiosity and, and also just experience and, you know, skills. So,
Speaker: very cool That's very cool. see this person who I'm from being a fashion designer. Yeah, that's so funny. in um we did shout out Francesca Roth, our costume designer at the beginning. I looked at her IMDb. I have not seen anything else that she has done. i haven't either. and so that was interesting. Yeah. and I look forward to what she does in the future. There's a lot. And there's a lot that sounds really interesting. And Yeah. She seems to have this like thing that quite a few people do, which is like peppered with music videos. Yeah. Like other videos and then TV and bigger and bigger yeah and, you know, in and out of many different things. so there's a long list here of cool things.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So she seems like someone who's just kind of like. go like going ascending. She seems like she's working her way forward and um I thought she did a great job on this movie. so And I'm going to watch it.
Speaker: I think you'll really enjoy it. think will. I was talking because Jonathan watched it with me. And he asked me afterwards, like, oh, did you think of the movie? And I was like, I enjoyed it. I think it would have been – think it would have hit me a little bit more personally if I was, like, 16 watching the movie. But it had all the ingredients there. So, like, it was a good time. And was nice –
Speaker: see so many issues being packed into a movie that's not very long yeah and like with depth yeah that's that's exciting to yeah go see so thank you for putting this on the list Melinda I'm go do my homework and watch it but you know what's crazy next time is our last episode of this season And i don't know if people know, like they, well, they certainly don't know what we're doing, but I don't think they could guess. I don't think they'd be able to guess.
Speaker: Shall we tell them? Let's do it. Okay. So, and this is where i get to make a confession. Yeah. So next time, our ultimate final episode of this season, we are going to be watching the legendary film Paris is Burning, which I have never seen. ah And I've only seen a documentary that's kind of like
Speaker: not really a follow-up, but it is about someone one who features prominently in the documentary. So I got to know a lot about this woman whose life was taken from her with this documentary made by her community, her family, and some ah members of her birth family. So i'm I'm really looking forward to seeing this. And um it's a really important documentary. And i'm I'm really excited that we get to incorporate documentary and talk about culture Yeah, and I think it's a really, i think it's a much for us and our show and our interest and taste. I think it's a better way of ending this season than i think maybe some of the
Speaker: Maybe more, quote, obvious movies that we did not necessarily do on this season because ah both of us were like, I don't really want to do that. yeah Even though it fits very well into the category. yeah there was definitely a lot about...
Speaker: how much can we retread ground? Cause like we want to be able to have a full season, but like we want to have variety and not just have the variety be sorry, not sorry, house of Gucci. I didn't like this. I know, you know, so like, and we also didn't want to tap out on our energy. So being able to talk about real people who have influenced fashion incredibly and it influenced culture incredibly, um I think just feels like such a holistically good choice. Yeah. Like, so I'm looking forward to it. And there's only so many movies about like the legendary man genius yeah that I can stomach. And that was a big feature of the conversation. Cause a lot of the movie structures are exactly that. And I'm so tired. has I'm so tired. Not to be a full on misandrist, but, or misandrist, but like, no, I don't, in this time of 2026 and all the things that we are experiencing every day being thrown at us, I don't want to hear about some magical man who just uses and abuses women's bodies under the name of, they're my muses. Barf. so Barf. Absolute barf. And pass and it really perpetuates the false notion of like who fashion is for and who fashion is not for and what it is and what it is not. And ah that's not a conversation that I think you or I consider is is wanting to perpetuate. No. So instead talking about this and about what fashion can be and who it is for and what it can be used for and how it, you know, exists and changes in addition to so many other things, because this documentary is about so much. um Yeah.
Speaker: I feel just like very excited to talk about it. Yeah, me too. And we shall. And we shall. and we shall all right. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Bye.
Speaker: Bye.
