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What Makes for a Good Park Layout?
111 Plays9 days ago
Who knew park layouts could be considered creative? We talk about some of the best and worst park layouts we've experienced, and why they left an impact on us. Lots of listener comments, plus Flash Vertical Velocity recaps from Jenn and Allison, Jenn's massive rant on a coaster she hasn't been on yet, Bryant's recovery milestone, and more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts' Collections
00:00:00
Speaker
You are listening to the Inverted Creative Podcast. I'm Allison. I'm Brian. And I'm Jen.
00:00:16
Speaker
I got a question for y'all. For us. Do y'all collect any roller coaster things? Like, do you have any major collections? No, not at all. Really? Not really. I have no... I don't even know what the the freaking metal things... What are those called that everyone buys?
00:00:33
Speaker
Magnets? Keychains? No, no, no. Nanocoasters? Nanocoasters. I have no nanocoasters. I have maybe four or five amusement park shirts.
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm cheap.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have a consistent thing that I purchase. Um... I don't have a consistent thing that I purchase. I have a bunch of like little things, but not one specific thing.
00:00:59
Speaker
Okay. Well, then I guess I'm the odd one out. I know. So i kind of collect mugs. I know on my Europa trip, I accidentally bought three mugs without realizing it. which takes a special kind of skill.
00:01:12
Speaker
um We collect magnets, which mostly started with Mike trying to annoy his mom, and we've just kind of continued it. We have a fridge full of them. like I know back in the day I used to collect, my big ones were postcards and park maps to the point where I was like writing to, like literally sending physical letters to parks that I had not been to yet asking if they could send me a park map.
00:01:33
Speaker
and That's pretty cool. ah They did. a lot of them did, actually. it was kind of cool. But that's that's my little nerdy thing kind of related to our ah topic for today. All right, all right, all right. I hear you there. And actually, I want to amend my take.
00:01:47
Speaker
I do have some magnets. do like collecting magnets. I got one from Glenwood. I got one from Silver Dollar City, Holiday World. I'm literally looking at my fridge right now. Twisted Timbers, Busch Gardens.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, I did my first couple trips to Disney World. i collect I picked up the most recent version of the park map and I used to collect them, but that only lasted four or five trips.
00:02:12
Speaker
Oh, I had them all over my walls as a kid. I had one of those like souvenir Cedar Point ones on my wall for years. Oh, that's awesome. I still have pictures from when I was like 16 and there's like on-ride photos from Cedar Point next to a map.
00:02:26
Speaker
I was very nerdy growing up in terms of coasters. I think my issue is, like unfortunately, New England, like most parks I do have to fly to go to.
00:02:37
Speaker
And I will always pack. I will try to fit seven to ten days worth of stuff in a carry-on so I don't have to pay the fee. yeah AKA, I don't have any room for like things but to bring home with me.
00:02:51
Speaker
That was me on my Europe trip two years ago or whatever, where I literally just had like a backpack for two weeks in Europe and like trying to very meticulously pick souvenirs to bring. i even like brought cheap tank tops so that I could eventually throw them away during the trip because I knew I would inevitably buy park t-shirts and refill that space.
00:03:13
Speaker
That is a very good strategy. I should do that more. I will be doing that again this summer. I also i never throw away clothes, so that's another issue on my end. It was like literally $3 tank tops from Walmart. right like I would not be sad throwing them away.
00:03:28
Speaker
But anyway. Hey, credit to you for actually thinking of something to start the episode. I know. I literally texted you earlier today. i'm like, no, I have an idea. I got this. Very proud of you, Allison.
00:03:39
Speaker
Thank
Brian's Recovery and Travel Plans
00:03:40
Speaker
you. Baby steps forward. Listen. Hold on. Speaking of baby steps, I have some very, very important news that even you two don't know about. Who? Literally just before we started recording, I took my first steps without crutches.
00:03:57
Speaker
Oh, yes. Heck yeah. Did you fall? I hope not. I did not fall. No. so I'm clearly still wearing a walking boot. I'm not like anywhere. I'm still probably a good month away from being in a regular shoe.
00:04:10
Speaker
But they say four weeks after surgery for Achilles, you're clear to start walking in a boot. And it's almost five weeks. i'm actually I've actually been a little more hesitant than I should have been.
00:04:21
Speaker
But I started like using the counter to kind of go like side to side. And it's definitely painful. it's It's sore, but it's not like this like excruciating, oh my god, I'm going collapse pain. So yeah, today I'm just like, you know what?
00:04:35
Speaker
Screw it. but let Let's try it. and ah It's definitely with a limp because like I don't think the way my foot is angled in the boot, I don't think that I'm supposed to have like a natural like heel to toe step. I don't know. I'm going to physical therapy therapy tomorrow.
00:04:53
Speaker
I'll ask that question. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. Yeah, no, thank you. It was a big milestone. I think just taking steps without crutch I think, really the big breakthrough to get back to normal. so Different kind of milestone than we're used to in this hobby.
00:05:08
Speaker
Right?
00:05:11
Speaker
Not lot. We'll be back at it before you know it. I know. and i'm I'm hoping April is the first is the last full month where I'm like, I can't do anything.
Flash Vertical Velocity Ride Experience
00:05:20
Speaker
And then May is maybe we start getting some park visits.
00:05:24
Speaker
We shall see. Yeah, which I mean, April, I feel like the park openings, at least near me, I feel like the park openings have been a little bit later this year.
00:05:37
Speaker
don't know if I'm just like not remembering correctly in my mind, but I feel like I remember at least the parks near me opening late March last year like first week in February. And now it's like the second weekend in February or
00:05:54
Speaker
Dorney Park is the first weekend or the second weekend in May. Yeah, that feels late. May is late. Yeah. Even New England, I feel, opens in April, like weekends on April anyway. Yeah.
00:06:06
Speaker
I was shocked. Like, I was not expecting that opening. But yeah, sorry. My little rant. Well, speaking of some openings, which it's again, it's the portion of the episode where you're not going to hear me talk very much.
00:06:20
Speaker
ah I think both of you that's got a new credit the last this past weekend. We did. Not on the same day, but we both did. ja wrote You rode first, so you can go first.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, so both of us made our way to Six Flags Great Adventure to ride the Flash Vertical Velocity. um i i enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty fun.
00:06:47
Speaker
I but i do I don't know. I hear that the experience may have been a little bit different opening day. Yeah. So once again, i said last episode that we were considering going to New Jersey and then we weren't fully set in stone if we were going to New Jersey.
00:07:05
Speaker
So we drove to New Jersey. um And yeah, we went to opening day at Great Adventure and it was not an ideal day, which we expected going into it.
00:07:17
Speaker
But it, you know, it was it was a day. um We rode El Toro one breakdown while we were in line, and then it broke down when we were on the train and we got pulled off the train.
00:07:30
Speaker
um And then we got finally got to get back on. And then we did the mine train, and then we waited an hour and a half for food just to get to ordering the food. Yeah, it was so Yeah.
00:07:42
Speaker
it was so bad um We weren't planning to get a full meal. We were just going to get a snack and then it took an hour and a half. And we're like, alright, we're dedicated. We were also trying to um coordinate with Taylor and Sarah who were also in the park who were stuck in Flash's line because it kept breaking down.
00:07:59
Speaker
So we were going to order food for them as well. So they didn't have to wait an hour and a half in line. um we i know they waited like three hours for Front Row with Flash. It was having some major reliability issues. It kept faulting on the reverse launch.
00:08:15
Speaker
And a break instead of launch. um Yeah. We ended up waiting about two hours and got on shortly after park closed. And once again, we got on the train and it launched and it faulted. And we got pulled off a second train of the day.
00:08:30
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. right Then, know, they tested it. We got back on by the end of the day. They knew what the issue was. I think they just don't have the part. They didn't have the part then to fix it, I guess. But they were able to, like, keep it going.
00:08:43
Speaker
I don't really know, but it seemed ah supposedly it was better the next day in terms of reliability. Yeah, so it did have a couple of those that I saw during the media day for it.
00:08:57
Speaker
um But not nearly as many that I heard on opening day, which also makes sense because I don't think that they were cycling as many trains either. it did not valley on opening day. I know that.
00:09:07
Speaker
I know it valued on media day. Yeah, Valley twice on media day. um Which, like, those coasters are designed to do. Anyone listening who isn't aware of that model, the Super Boomerangs do have launches in the Valley. So they are designed that if they do Valley, they can get themselves out of it pretty quickly. Yeah.
00:09:28
Speaker
For whatever reason, that's not what they did Media Day. They did evac the train, which I know there's videos going around of that happening. um But and I don't know. I'm just speculating. But I'm going to guess that probably had something to do with the like millions of dollars of can camera equipment that was on the trains, if I had to guess. So...
00:09:46
Speaker
so Yeah, did Valley twice on the media day. um But both times pretty quick. They evacced the people pretty quick and just got it out of there.
00:09:59
Speaker
so Yeah, they knew what they were doing Yeah, I was ah surprised by it, if I'm being honest. um A lot of my expectations for Vekoma aren't super high. And I know that That's a lot of that has to do with the coasters that I've been on in the past. a lot of the Vekomas are like very old school Vekoma, not necessarily aging the best.
00:10:31
Speaker
um Pretty old, like a lot of that goes into consideration with my opinion. um And then I had like the Vekomas that um Disney has as well, which different, kind of different because they're also partnering with Disney. It's not just completely Vekoma.
00:10:49
Speaker
um So I wasn't, I was super excited to go into it, but I was kind of not sure what to expect, like at all. And I definitely would say that I wasn't expecting a ton out of it. And I was really pleasantly surprised. I thought it was really fun. It is so smooth.
00:11:10
Speaker
Mm-hmm. boo And considering the last four or five openings that I've been to, I've said complete opposite of that. I'm not going to name any names, but we all know who I'm talking about.
00:11:25
Speaker
um It was really refreshing to get on a brand new coaster that was like, it had some really solid elements, I think. um Sure, some of it was like,
00:11:38
Speaker
Just like a not super thrilling thrilling, but I think it had a couple really standout elements. And then it just like the fact that it was so smooth just really won me over. Yeah, that stall going backwards is heavenly.
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, that stall going backwards might be one of my favorite elements on a roller coaster. um It feels like it lasts forever.
00:12:03
Speaker
hmm. And it feels so unique. Like a stall already, when a stall is put into the layout... Well, stall already is such a beautiful element in my opinion. like you I feel like I always laugh.
00:12:16
Speaker
And even in the end of my like reverse POV, I'm like, again, I'm just going to talk about the stall, guys. like I talk about stalls all the time. When they're placed in the layout well, they are just so beautiful.
00:12:28
Speaker
And getting to do a stall backwards in a layout like that is just very unique. It's very very unique. um hang time, like, it's it's just a good experience.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah. I wonder if that's gonna be a rare case where it's almost better to ride it in the cold versus the summer.
Coaster Rankings and Debates
00:12:50
Speaker
Maybe. I wonder if in the summer if it's, you know, a little faster if you don't get as much hang time on these stalls, because I heard it was like 14 seconds combined, like seven one way, seven the other. Yeah, so I think that, like, for... i think that for Flash...
00:13:07
Speaker
It's really hard because for the hang time, yeah, that stall, like you want to go in the cold and want to be um running slower. However, it does also, there is a double up that like that double up, the airtime you get in that double up was really shocking.
00:13:22
Speaker
Um, It was like not even a little bit what I expected looking at it to get. I was shocked by it was just like a very and it was like a quick, intense pop. And I rode it my first time in like 40 degree weather.
00:13:39
Speaker
Scott, you two had like wildly different weather days, even though they were only like 48 hours apart, right? Yeah. It wasn't like 80 when you were there, Allison, like yeah out of nowhere. Yeah. It was very warm that day.
00:13:52
Speaker
Yeah, and I was riding it. My first ride, I think it was around 40 degrees, and I think it warmed up to like 50, 55. Got lot of Northeast in April and March.
00:14:05
Speaker
That, I'm hoping, is maybe the first new credit I get after my injury. I think hopefully I can get there before my Europe trip. We shall see. I think it's a good one. i I enjoyed it overall. I thought it was really good.
00:14:20
Speaker
Where would you place it like ranked among Great Adventure Coasters?
00:14:28
Speaker
Not to put you on the spot. ah Eyeball test for me, it seems fourth. I think I'd still maybe put Jersey Devil over it but that's... think I would too.
00:14:40
Speaker
And obviously Nitro and El Toro for me.
00:14:45
Speaker
So I definitely think El Toro has to go over it. Oh yeah. Not even a debate. But I don't know. For me, I feel like it might be my second or third. okay I have a lot of beef with Jersey Devil and the fact that you can feel all the connections.
00:15:04
Speaker
That's fair. I really don't like that. And... It's not even like, it's not a roughness. It's not a, but I just don't like being able to feel the connections in the track. Every single connection that you go over, it just, I don't know.
00:15:19
Speaker
it's It's something about it. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me when I ride it. No, I mean, it's probably my least favorite RMC, so I kind of get it. I think Jersey Devil Flash will be my personal debate.
00:15:30
Speaker
I highly doubt it's going to top Nitro because I love Nitro so much, so. Yeah. For me,
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I think it's going to be two or three. I i fight it with Nitro because I'm not the biggest fan of Nitro. um You stink. So anyway, no.
00:15:50
Speaker
But um definitely not Alturo. And it's like, yeah, definitely not Alturo. It doesn't beat I would hope not. But yeah. Well, before we get to our main topic, a few few updates. Coaster madness-wise, by the time you're hearing this, it will have been over.
00:16:08
Speaker
Right now, as we're speaking, we're in the Final Four. ah Currently, the Steel Vengeance versus a Voyage matchup is going on, which looks really tight. We've got about two hours to go. Last I checked, it's almost dead even.
00:16:21
Speaker
oh Oh, no, the Voyage is actually up by a lot on Twitter. but Steel Vengeance is up by a lot on Instagram. I was just looking at those. I gotta do math here. think Nathaniel's campaign is, and Mike, they're both push pushing hard for Voyage. right I really need to let you guys know, me and Nathaniel, almost we almost blew up our friend group chat and um like no longer became friends over Voyage versus vol Voltron.
00:16:51
Speaker
I still think the outcome of that is absolutely insane and I'm angry about it. Like, I am really refraining from going on my complete BS right now. yeah i'm I'm stunned you haven't cursed yet.
00:17:04
Speaker
ah i'm i'm really I'm really honing it in right now. But me and Nathaniel almost blew up. We were hardcore fighting in our group chat.
00:17:15
Speaker
Hardcore. So...
00:17:20
Speaker
It's, uh, yeah, I'll have to do the math. I don't even know. what I mean, obviously by the time you hear this, you'll know what happened, but. What do we have? An hour and 20 minutes left? We're going to finish before then because I have my first live stream tonight, so.
00:17:32
Speaker
ah I know, but I will be. I need to campaign. This is the only time you guys are going hear it. You're fighting for steel vengeance? Yes, I'm. Sorry, I'm probably so loud. If Voyage takes it two years in a row, Brian, I can't support it anymore.
00:17:49
Speaker
Why are you saying Brian Allison's a part of it too? I will i can't support it. If Voyage wins two years in a row, I'm out. I will never participate ever again. And I will be on my BS for forever. Have you been on Voyage yet? No. But it's not.
00:18:06
Speaker
There's no way. There is no way. It's humanly possible that that... and like I'm trying not to curse, guys. I will fund a trip for you to go to Holiday World. Allison, you're the only one that's ridden both.
00:18:20
Speaker
So what's your opinion? Wait, really?
00:18:25
Speaker
Voltron. I was thinking Steel Vengeance. um i'm I'm team Voltron all the way. yeah vote There is no way that it like one of the top steel coasters...
00:18:36
Speaker
doesn't win against a wooden coaster. Like, I'm so sorry, I get it. Wooden coasters can be really good. I've learned that in the last, like, year. I can at least admit that now. But, there's no way!
00:18:49
Speaker
Voltron is so good! It's the total package! You have such a long experience, so you're getting complete theming to the entire- You're debating a long experience with Voyage? It's like the long experience in the world.
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah, but it's stillnu you're still not getting any of the other things. You're not waiting. Also, Voyage, here's my other thing. I said it on Twitter, made some people a little mad. I'll say here. don't care if I make some people a little mad.
00:19:19
Speaker
If Voyage is in your top because of five nights a year when it runs with trims, then it doesn't so it does belong there. It does not belong there.
00:19:30
Speaker
that is It doesn't belong to be that high when we're voting it based on trims off, and it only runs that way five nights a year. That's like the same people will be like, candy isn't a good hyper because it's only cold good in the cold.
00:19:46
Speaker
But Voyage is good with no trims? Only with no trims? I haven't. This is me. I have not been on Voyage trim list since 2021, almost four years ago. And it's increased in my rankings because of my rides in 2023 during the day, random August day.
00:20:02
Speaker
And I'm like, that's my number two or three, whatever it was at the time.
00:20:07
Speaker
Okay, well then, you're fine. But I'm so sick of hearing, am so sick of hearing these stupid voyage people, like, this is so good because it runs trimless. Like, you'll understand when you get a trimless ride during Hollywood night. Also, I'm not waiting hours in Hollywood nights.
00:20:26
Speaker
That's also a load of BS. Alright. I would agree if you're only basing it on the trimless ride, and that's not fair. It's gotta, I agree that. That being said, it's still my number three, and it's, my opinion, better than Vengeance.
00:20:40
Speaker
Okay, well, it's not better than anything else. It's just the fanboys. Well, Voltron, I'll let you know. I'll let you know in about three months. I really hope nobody from that works at Holiday World listens to the podcast, or specifically the last five minutes of this one.
00:20:54
Speaker
Oh, I'm so sorry. Guys, I'm sure that it's a great wooden coaster, but... It can't- It's- Come on, Voltron.
00:21:08
Speaker
And then it's gonna go up against either Ride to Happiness or Velocicoaster. it- If it wins against those, that's where I'm done. Like, at least this one, it's like, don't like either of them personally.
00:21:21
Speaker
That's fine. Whatever happens, happens. But if- Like, Ride to Happiness or Velocicoaster is what it's gonna go up against. I don't think Voyage has faced Velocicoaster yet.
00:21:35
Speaker
This is where it's like, I'm not, I am going to lose it. If you guys don't, like, if you think I'm losing it right now, I'm going to lose it on a level that you've never seen me lose it. Well, the championship was, as you're listening, this past Friday, so we we will know what happened.
00:21:51
Speaker
Congrats to Velocicoaster or Ride to Happiness or Voyage or Steel Vengeance. Maybe it comes back.
00:21:59
Speaker
All right, before we get started, because we kind of have a big topic, let's go over trivia from last week. By the way, how amazing was Gina? She was awesome. Unbelievable. She's the best. I really hope she got, like, a bunch more sales from us pushing that.
00:22:13
Speaker
I hope. She deserves it. She definitely does. all but All the love. Amen. But I did have a UK-themed trivia question in honor of her, and I asked, what is the second longest roller coaster currently in the United Kingdom?
00:22:28
Speaker
ah We had a few answers. Someone said Icon, which is at 3,750 feet, the third longest coaster in the UK. Oh, that's actually... and didn't know that.
00:22:39
Speaker
okay so The second longest is the Smiler, 3,838 feet. three thousand eight hundred and thirty eight feet So there's actually this's no coasters ah between third eight hundred and fifty five hundred which is the big one geez so Yeah, Grand National is fourth. Big Dipper is fifth.
00:22:59
Speaker
Hyperia is sixth, which is interesting. And Nemesis isn't even in the top ten. I'm not shocked at that. Shorter than I thought it was. Also, but ah real quick before we... Another real quick before we get into everything. Can we talk about our little April Fool's thing that we did for Coaster Madness? We did, yeah. And how fun that was.
00:23:21
Speaker
We, instead of, usually we do just like two random coasters, like Talon won a couple years ago because of Jen. I think we had Daddy Pig win one year. Usually just a completely ridiculous matchup.
00:23:34
Speaker
I think last year was, we were dealing with a lot of like vote buying. So we're just like, all right, the the bots have it. It's Millennium Force versus Magnum. just Correct. Right. That's true. Something like that.
00:23:45
Speaker
This year we decided where we're going to do, for those that don't watch actual college basketball March Madness, there's a secondary tournament called the NIT. It's basically for all those schools that didn't make the main tournament.
00:23:57
Speaker
So I sold it as, here's a NIT tournament of all these, a second chance for some coasters that were either in March Madness or Coaster Madness and some other rides. It was rides like El Toro, Phoenix, Fly, Cyclone.
00:24:12
Speaker
except these are all names where there are multiple coasters with these names. And the whole time we were thinking of other coasters, not the most famous ones. So rides like, I mean, we have Silver Bullet is an amazing B&M invert, but there's also this OK Schwarzkopf at Silver Bullet, at Frontier City called Silver Bullet that we put in this tournament.
00:24:35
Speaker
Do not ever call it okay. Also, I want you to know that I absolutely... I had no idea what you were doing, but when I saw Silver Bullet, I was just like, I'm going to choose to believe that this is Silver Bullet in Frontier City and voted for it.
00:24:46
Speaker
It was. It was. So yeah, congrats to El Toro at the the Germany, ah the German El Toro for winning that little turn. Yeah. we so Over Phoenix at Dino's Wonder Wheel.
00:24:58
Speaker
We planned it so that we put the polls up with absolutely no graphics. Yeah. Until we got to the final one where Bryant posted the poll on Twitter without the graphic. And I come in of course, I've already sent him a final matchup graphic.
00:25:12
Speaker
But I come in like, wait, I haven't done it yet. oh my God. And we were just kind of playing the bit for a while. And so we posted the graphic halfway into the poll. And then people realized, oh, I didn't know I was voting for that one.
00:25:25
Speaker
My favorite was the Phoenix versus Twister. And there were like multiple discussions for just about like Knoebels. Yeah. Like clearly Phoenix, it has the airtime. And I waited till the end to respond like a Vekoma family coaster has airtime. What are you talking about?
00:25:39
Speaker
it It was it was what when I processed, like, cause I see it and I read it and I was like, what is happening here? Like, how did you choose these matchups?
00:25:52
Speaker
Like I laughed really hard when I saw the graphics and process the names of the parts. It was a good idea. and was i think it was my favorite April Fool's yet. Yeah, no, for sure. matt That was my second favorite April Fool's joke.
00:26:08
Speaker
My first one being Talon winning. Of course. Of course. Naturally. It was fun doing like a whole day thing. like Polls
Park Layouts and Trivia
00:26:18
Speaker
going all day. Yeah, I was working the whole time, so that was fun. I was pretending to work, and that's why i i didn't have graphics ready to go.
00:26:27
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, um so for those that don't know, we actually have this whole like master list of ideas to do for our deep dives. And last week, whenever it was, I just said, what about park layouts?
00:26:41
Speaker
We're all well-traveled enthusiasts. We've been to a lot of parks. That would be a good idea to do. And immediately, Allison was like, I'm not that of much of an expert in that. And I'm like...
00:26:52
Speaker
You have, what, 580 credits at this point? Yeah. Into pretty much every park in the U.S., parks in Europe, and you're like, what do you mean you don't know park layouts? Explain yourself. I get lost easily, and I don't pay attention very well when I'm in parks, and I usually will just follow people who proclaim that they know where they're going or do know where they're going, and I do not pay attention.
00:27:15
Speaker
I could not tell you how to get around Silver Dollar City in the least, and I've been there multiple times. So to be fair, that's a park we're going to talk about. Cause yeah, I agree with you there. Yeah. I, I, I do not count on me to get anywhere in parks ever.
00:27:31
Speaker
What about you, Jen? Are you like a one visit and you know where everything is, or are you more like Alison? to It really depends. Like to me, this topic for me is one that I'm going to probably have a lot to say because for me, it depends on the layout of the park.
00:27:47
Speaker
um Some parks I go to once. I'm good. I'm set. I know it. I don't really need any guidance. um ah Like one that comes to mind right away is DCA.
00:27:59
Speaker
um First time I was in there, i kind of got the ground. i know 100% everywhere to go in that park. No questions. It just has a layout that is pretty easy to understand.
00:28:11
Speaker
um I've been to Dorney Park 1,600 times, and I still don't know how to get anywhere. I have no clue how to get anywhere in that park at all. I just keep walking until I find whatever I'm looking for.
00:28:25
Speaker
and i mean i think it is a good discussion because you have parks that... and I want to correct me any listener. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure Walt Disney himself invented the the hub and spoke model for a theme park where there is a center piece and then everything branches out in a circle.
00:28:48
Speaker
i I thought that that was the case as well. So I think that's true. Historians, which I claim to be, but i'm fault I'm failing here. But correct me if I'm wrong.
00:28:58
Speaker
Nathaniel may know because he seems to know everything. Apparently. He knows the voice. in Anyway, we're not getting that debate again. Oh my god, I was gonna say the opposite. Get out of here. about to throw my Nathaniel's friendship away for this. Go away.
00:29:12
Speaker
Wow. But I do think, and we're going to go, we had a lot of comments from a lot of people about park layouts. but see I think there's a general consensus that the the circle hub and spoke model is is the preferred layout of a park.
00:29:28
Speaker
It's easy to get around. For me, I like when rides are equally spaced out. There's none of these like huge hikes to get to your favorite rides. um But then, of course, you have parks. You mentioned Dorney. We mentioned Silver Dollar City. There's a lot where...
00:29:41
Speaker
They just had a piece of land and they just threw things wherever they had room. And nothing makes sense. So we'll definitely go over some of those as well.
00:29:54
Speaker
Do you guys have any other... but well What makes what an efficient park layout, do you think? For me, good flow. Yeah, for for me, as I mentioned...
00:30:07
Speaker
I'm just going to bring up, I think Kings Island is is one of my favorite park layouts, even though Allison still somehow can't get around. and I'm getting better, but I did get lost after getting Tom and she recently and trying to meet back up with people.
00:30:21
Speaker
if If you're doing a prep run i' like that, I feel like every coaster is equidistant around a circle. And they the good coasters are like all in different quadrants. Like, cause you got Orion in the back. Diamondbacks kind of in the middle.
00:30:37
Speaker
Mystic Timbers and Beasts are kind of right near Diamondback. Left side, you've got, um I almost said backlot. Backlots in the middle. Adventure Express and Banshee.
00:30:48
Speaker
Like everything's evenly spaced out. I also appreciate when there's bathrooms in between each of those spots. Because no matter where you need to when you need to go, it's right there.
00:31:00
Speaker
on Kings Island is is my favorite. Great example of a good park layout. That got mentioned. That was probably one of the top parks mentioned in terms of good layouts.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah, shout out Cedar Cab for bringing that one up. so Other than trying to find the Bat, which is very true. The Bat is one of the more... isolated coasters out there uh yeah because when you were just saying when you were just talking about how good king's island was and i've only been there the one time but all i could think about is how hard it was to get to the bat and how you're just like at this dead end and even like when you go through the entrance you're still like winding back to get to the station it takes forever
00:31:46
Speaker
You're walking like a mile at least. like It just keeps going. so It is definitely back there. but But part of me like likes the isolation. I mean, it is a pain, but but even though when you get out of that, then you get Invertigo and Banshee like right there too. so It's not completely out of the way.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, I really like I don't know, for me, and I feel like this is a different level, but I feel like nothing beats Magic Kingdom's layout. Yeah, i mean that's I mean, Disneyland, obviously, same pretty much the same thing. so So I don't like Disneyland as much because one of the main reasons that I like Magic Kingdom as much is because it combines both the hub and spoke and the loop.
00:32:40
Speaker
Is Disneyland not a loop? No. not really like everything is really like it's definitely not built for crowds it's not but so it's technically it does all connect but in these really convoluted and and like more narrow walkways so it's not like a big open looped walkway um and it can cause you to kind of get lost a little bit like you have like One of the biggest ones is like... When you go into the Hub and Spoke to get over to... Like Tomorrowland and you start going over that way...
00:33:17
Speaker
Matterhorn is just like like... You have to pick ways around like Matterhorn instead of like a straight way through. um And depending on where you go, and it just like you can miss a bunch on one side or miss a bunch on the other.
00:33:30
Speaker
It just is a lot more... And sometimes there are multiple small walkways to go one land to the next instead of one large walkway that brings you there.
00:33:41
Speaker
um Disneyland is still, I think, one of the better ones, but... the The multiple small walkways do a ton for theming and do a ton for the charm.
00:33:54
Speaker
I love that park for those things, but Magic Kingdom does the layout better. Okay. I actually did not know that because I have not been to Disneyland, which is still embarrassing. Yeah, like another great example of it is like just talking about like even just talking about stores, like walking up and down Main Street.
00:34:13
Speaker
um The Emporium on either side is a complete walkthrough, just straight, narrow, open air. um at Disneyland, you're like walking in and out of buildings. Like there's no way to just straight shoot down those buildings.
00:34:25
Speaker
You have to go in and out onto Main Street. I did not know that. Well, i mean, obviously Disney is one of the they know how to do layouts. Epcot's great. Animal Kingdom's great. ah Hollywood Studios.
00:34:37
Speaker
Not so much. Hollywood Studios is probably one of the worst park layouts. It's a little better now that it has Galaxy's Edge. ah Do you remember when you used to have to like walk into Toy Story Land and you'd just get stuck there and have to turn around? So bad.
00:34:51
Speaker
and then like the i don't even remember like because I was in that that area the park so little growing up because it was just like the New York area and they had like the backlot tram ride.
00:35:02
Speaker
tram ride Yeah, Studios of Struggles, but pretty much every other Disney park, really good. Yeah. Busch Gardens Williamsburg we brought up. I think also a pretty good circle.
00:35:15
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that one does really good. Rollercoaster's pretty much equidistant from each other. But i still I still don't know how to get to Loch Ness sometimes. so yeah That's the one coaster I'm like, wait, how do I get to Scotland?
00:35:28
Speaker
That's so funny that I very much considered using a picture of the pass down by Loch Ness for the call for questions picture. ah Oh, there we go. For that specific reason. That's one of my favorite areas in any park, period. But then I'm like, well, if I go down here, then I know I have to climb up like 500 flights of stairs to to get to the ride.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah. That's a steep hill. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Literally just written down was Islands of Adventure. Yes. That's one park I know my way around, mostly because I know how to get to Velocicoaster.
00:36:01
Speaker
You know, priorities. I do really... Yeah. Having a way around a circle is very helpful. Especially a water waterway, because it's pretty much just all around the the lake, the pond, whatever you call that.
00:36:14
Speaker
Right. Lagoon. Lagoon. There you go. Yeah, but I do think it's really... Not like funny, but... And it's... I know it's not like that exaggerated, but that's another one where you look at islands and they do it so well. And then I feel like when you look at Universal, I feel like they don't do it very well.
00:36:35
Speaker
um yeah Yeah, I hate Universal's layout. Universal's layout is like one of my least favorite layouts. I feel like you can't do that park like conveniently.
00:36:49
Speaker
no. So it's just, you know it's always funny to me looking at Universal because how, like IOA is so good and Universal feels so disconnected and disconjointed.
00:37:01
Speaker
Especially, I've done Horror Nights three years in a row. When it's dark, I still have no idea where I am. Like I have no idea how to get from point A to point B and I've been to that park so many times, it's wild.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, even when you know, it's just kind of like, To get to point A to point B, like, you know how some parks it's like, oh, my goal is to get from where I'm at now, let's just say to like, rip ride rocket. And then the goal would be, let's hit whatever coast, like coasters or rides we can on the way.
00:37:39
Speaker
i just feel like it's impossible to do at that park. It's getting one attraction to the next is just impossible. No, that's very valid.
00:37:51
Speaker
I think it's time to, we should just mention parks to roast for having bad park layouts. I'm going to start with my home park, Six Flags New England. I hate it so much. Now, I mentioned at King's Island, like it's good to have good rides like so like surrounding the park, but it sucks when each of your good coasters is at like a dead end of a park, of a point in the park.
00:38:14
Speaker
Because Six Flags New england England is essentially shaped like a T-shirt. And Superman is all the way in the back. Wicked Cyclone's all the way the left. And I guess the third best coaster is Dark Knight, which is all the way to the right.
00:38:28
Speaker
Each coaster is a good 10 to 15 minute walk apart. And especially me as a ah a local that just wants to pop in for a few hours and ride either Wicked Cyclone Superman, i always have to make a choice. I'm like, okay, where do i want to start?
00:38:44
Speaker
Knowing that if i ride Wicked Cycle three or four times, by the time I get to Superman, there's already going to be like a 45 minute wait, probably, because they're not close to each other. You can't just quickly bang, bang, ride them both.
00:38:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's just a rant about my home park, as I like to do. At least get one on company. I was glad to have you as a tour guide when I went. cause i Yeah, because we... I mean, credit running for the first time, i always say Thunderbolt, because it's one train, then Pandemonium, and the spinning coaster. But then it's like...
00:39:14
Speaker
You have to sacrifice either Wicked Cyclone or Superman for a wait because you can't just get them together because they're nowhere near each other. Right. And I think we chose Wicked Cyclone and then I feel like it wasn't too bad that day anyway. So we didn't have to wait too long for Superman.
00:39:30
Speaker
I think um John Mike was waiting for Superman anyway for a milestone. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. ah that where It worked out. Yeah,
00:39:41
Speaker
You have a rant about a park that Jen already mentioned. Yeah. And probably for different reasons. I don't know. But yes, Dorney Park is a pain in my butt because i don't like hills.
00:39:55
Speaker
And I know that the park itself has no control over that. It's just, you know, the nature literally of where it was built on a giant hill. At least I know how to get my way around to like, I know which coasters are at the top of the hill and which coasters are at the bottom of the hill.
00:40:11
Speaker
So that actually is one good thing I guess it has going for it. But I don't want to force myself back up a giant hill at the end of the day. and and Yeah.
00:40:23
Speaker
Dorney's weird. It's that like the the top half is almost just like one path. There's only one way to go. It's like you have to pass Talon, then you have to pass the Wild Mouse, and then you hit Hydra.
00:40:34
Speaker
and then everything Yeah, but you can cut at the beginning of the walkway. Oh, yeah, that's true. you'd like the kids Yeah, you can cut at the beginning of the walkway, um and that'll bring you straight down to Steel Force and Iron Menace.
00:40:48
Speaker
Okay. um So you have two directions to choose from, but it's kind of the same thing. um However...
00:40:56
Speaker
the entire GP goes to Talon first and no one in existence goes to Steel Force first. So you can just lap Steel Force with no weight for a solid hour to two hours before anyone of the general public gets there.
00:41:10
Speaker
So the answer is always take your left first. um However, what gets me about Dorney is like, and I warn people all the time, like ah obviously i love that park.
00:41:21
Speaker
um I've loved that park for years at this point. Not only is that hill so big, but it's a hill in both directions. There is no like, let's go up the hill a little bit and cut left and then it's it'll be straight because it's just as steep when you cut left. Like it is, there is no avoiding the hill at any point in that park. Unless you are going down it, you're just on it.
00:41:50
Speaker
It's exhausting. It is the most exhausting park for sure. Like, it's a very hard park to do an open to close day at.
00:42:01
Speaker
You gotta to get to Magic Mountain if you wanna. Oh yeah, that's another. If you want a hill. Then again, at least they have an option to, they have that little, like, funicular thing that goes up. Yeah, and I rode that multiple times when we went last time, because I just did not want to go up that hill.
00:42:17
Speaker
Dornie needs to invest in one of those. That'd be awesome. yeah Or I even wouldn't mind it as much as like where Busch Gardens Williamsburg put in the steps. That would be fine with me, too. I'd rather take the steps up in that case. like The hill just really gets you. It just is never-ending. And then I kind of wish that like the park was flipped, because...
00:42:43
Speaker
The worst thing about a water park is having to walk up all of those steps. Like, I wish they were built into the hills or something. And the coasters were on the other side. the flats yeah I know they have no control over it because of, like, how old the park is and how historic. But, like, how nice would it have been if they were flip-flopped?
00:43:00
Speaker
That's a good point. I'll probably be avoiding Dorney this year then because I don't know if hills are going to be a smart for my foot this summer. Yeah, you can only, without a hill, you can only really get to town in Hydra.
00:43:13
Speaker
I checked all the parks. I texted Taylor like, hey, these are my parks. Are they all flat? And he's like, one of them might be a little hilly, but the rest are flat. And I'm like, let's go. Perfect. Speaking of Europe, Allison.
00:43:26
Speaker
My other mention on here. um The nature of Energylandia having 20 bajillion coasters on basically Polish fields.
00:43:37
Speaker
And the two best coasters in the park are at like opposite corners. And when you're trying to get night rides on both of them before park close, you are running a marathon to get between them. if you like so very Very similar to what I said about New England.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, in a way. It's also just because the park is so sprawling and there's so much to it. And the way that they built the park where it was like kind of more haphazard in the front and half. And then like when you get back to Zadra, things are a little more themed and make a little more sense.
00:44:09
Speaker
But getting through from Hyperion to Zadra, not even including the queue lines. and I was so tired. Like 30,000 steps park day. don't know if that's necessarily anything to do with layout.
00:44:24
Speaker
It's not great. Yeah. Be prepared. Whenever you go. Whenever I go. Yeah. its Hopefully I can walk. Yeah. it <unk>s It's a trek. And that's maybe not necessarily like, i don't know if it's really a layout thing. um i don't Maybe they could have done some things to kind of remedy efficiency.
00:44:46
Speaker
that was... Well, whenever I go, i should be wheeled around anyway. Because I, you know... yeah was a doger the heck I should have a free pass for life there.
00:44:57
Speaker
Anyway, I should dip the plaque you made me and be like, yo, it's my ticket. Yeah, bring it literally to the park. Hi, that's me. I also wrote down Hershey. I hate Hershey's layout.
00:45:10
Speaker
Yeah, Hershey's layout is tough. Speaking hills. Especially if you're trying... Yeah, the hill is bad, and there is also... and I'm about to get into this on a different park, too.
00:45:22
Speaker
There is this one specific spot at Hershey that used to be a walkway through. It's, like, all of the food areas, and then...
00:45:35
Speaker
There's some flat rides back there. And you used to be able to walk through that to get back to the main pathway instead of walking all the way back down the food area and back up. But I think they replaced that walkway and added a flat ride in the middle. I think it's right there that I'm thinking of.
00:45:49
Speaker
But it still looks like you it. Everything about it looks like it cuts through to the main walkway. And then you get there and there's no way to the main walkway.
00:46:00
Speaker
And it adds in so much walking. It might be my biggest pet peeve in a car ah anna park, that one specific walkway. like In general, I think that's a good point. like Parks that where you think, oh, I can go right there and yet there's no it's like 30 feet away and and there's no way to get there without having to like circle around to this like huge loop.
00:46:24
Speaker
That's a pet peeve of mine, just in general. Yeah. Like, again, Six Flags New England. um know if you guys remember this. If you're walking to the Gotham area, no. If you're walking to the Gotham area, you see Joker to your right.
00:46:37
Speaker
And you're like, okay, the entrance must be right there. But no, because they put freaking Harley Quinn, the the the swing ride, right in the middle of the whole f freaking area.
00:46:49
Speaker
So you gotta walk all the way around Harley Quinn. to get to the Joker entrance, even though the coaster's right there. And Batman is as well. like They couldn't have put a path like that just cuts right in the middle somehow.
00:47:02
Speaker
Anyway. yeah yes Go ahead, Allison. My thing with Hershey, ah so if we're still talking Hershey, um being at Lightning Racer and realizing that Sky Rush opened, tracked the walk and I think it was like three quarters of a mile.
00:47:19
Speaker
Oh yeah, at least... And it's up the hills. Yeah. And not only that, but like, you're standing at Lightning Racer and you look on a map, like, it's really not that far from Skyrush, but it's the fact that you have to go all the way back up to the water park and then, like, all the way over to Skyrush.
00:47:40
Speaker
and You have to, like, do a circle. The fact the water park's, like, right in the middle, too, annoys me. Speaking of, Kentucky Kingdom. hate that freaking layout.
00:47:54
Speaker
Talk about a water park in the middle of the layout, but it's a road going through it. oh most let' See, most of the time, after one visit, no matter where the park is, I i know where everything is. I don't feel lost at all.
00:48:09
Speaker
When I went back to Kentucky Kingdom in 2023, it was like I had never been there before. I had no idea how to get to Lightning Run. like just My spatial awareness was all off, and I don't know why. That's, I guess, the sign of a bad layout.
00:48:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Kentucky Flyers, like you have to literally walk through the water park. i think Yeah, that's what um that was one of the comments we got from Kim and Dex. They said, ah Kentucky Kingdom is bad, Kentucky Flyers in the water park, and there's a road dividing the park.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah. Kim and Dex, yeah. yeah Yeah, this layout looks very... Yeah, this layout just looks not good at all. Yeah. Jamin looks like said the same thing.
00:48:54
Speaker
ah Confusing. And then in all caps, Kentucky Kingdom. Yup. Yup. It's so bad. I do enjoy the park. I'm excited to see what they do with the new theming stuff. Yeah. It's hard to get around and and like i It was like i literally had never been there before. It was like they completely rearranged everything from when I first visited in 2021. Yeah.
00:49:21
Speaker
Another one that i This is ah um one that I feel like wouldn't be brought up as much, but another one that gets me with their layout. And honestly, their layout is so good until one single part.
00:49:36
Speaker
But Frontier City... I always bring up Frontier City. I love Frontier City. But I feel like Frontier City's layout is so good. is a good layout. And easy to follow. Until you hit the point that you have to like go up almost through the entrance and into a store and to get to the entrance of Diamondback that's like off behind out of everything.
00:50:00
Speaker
That is the most confusing park I've ever been to. feel like I would have never found it ah So I love, first off, the fact that the entrance is a gift shop is wild for Frontier City.
00:50:15
Speaker
But isn't the entrance to Diamondback technically right at the front? Yeah, but you walk through the gift shop and the actual sign that says like Frontier City, like the, you know how they all have that like, welcome to the park after you get in. It's after the gift shop as you're exiting the gift shop. That's true, yeah.
00:50:32
Speaker
The Frontier City sign is there. So you would think everything would be after the entrance, after that sign. That's true, yeah. So you can ride Diamondback before you even enter the park. Exactly. So you scan your ticket and you go in the gift shop, but you have to like go out the gift shop a different way with a sign that just says Diamondback this way. There's no big Diamondback sign.
00:50:53
Speaker
Like it's so weird. So when we walked into the park and we see this Welcome to Frontier City. Right. That's right in your entrance to the park. You would think that the entire park is after that initial entrance to the park.
00:51:08
Speaker
So when we were like, where's Diamondback? They're like, oh, go back where you came from. Exactly. Like go out pretty much exiting the park and there's this little tiny side out a side door. like That's true.
00:51:20
Speaker
That's fair. That's fair. It was like one of the weirdest. I would have never figured that out on my own. Good point. Grizzly at King's Dominion kind of like that too? Like you have to go through yes a shop to get to it. Yes, you do.
00:51:34
Speaker
I literally, that my first time there, I had to, and I never do this, I had to ask, where's the entrance to Grizzly? And then, like, go through the gift shop. Like, that makes no sense. Oh, okay. And they have the small, i don't know if they've changed it since they, I don't think they have. They have the smallest, like, little scrawny sign that says Grizzly.
00:51:52
Speaker
And it's this very tiny path to go up. I mean, like at least Beast like has paw prints on the ground leading to the entry. like Little things like that can really help in terms of guests finding their way.
00:52:06
Speaker
I would agree tremendously there. it can also make for a super frustrating experience. Oh, yeah. um Being stuck. Speaking of like weird things in parks, we do have one comment that we wanted to bring up specifically.
00:52:23
Speaker
Of course, it's Lom Lom Lom Lom. um Talking about dead ends. One of his least favorite park qualities. He mentions Thunderbird at Holiday World. Yeah, that's a pain to get to.
00:52:35
Speaker
And Excalibur at Valleyfair. They are the worst offenders for him. um But he doesn't know how to remedy dead ends. Do we have any ideas? I think about Dollywood when they originally built that path between like the two sides at the top of the hill.
00:52:52
Speaker
like I feel like I went there... like years and years ago, before they built the pathway. Adding just more connections. like I know Thunderbird, like there's really no other connection point you could feasibly get to. but say If anything, maybe have a transport system. That's where you put a Skyway. like a skyway yeah and know those probably aren't cheap.
00:53:17
Speaker
Or a train of some sort. If you don't have a train, make that one of the stations. Just some kind of some way to get there, like have another experience that lets you out at one of the dead ends. And you can even theme it kind of like a Hogwarts Express. I know that goes between two separate parks, but doing that in train experience could add a lot.
00:53:36
Speaker
And then even like if you want to loop it around just and you have the space, just build like a little loop around. you know to make the train go around, I guess. Yeah. I did want to bring up another dead end. This is an insane dead end. if I am sure half of the people that go, at least half the people that go to Lake Compounds, is not aware that there's a Rapids ride.
00:53:58
Speaker
Now, I want to say it was closed all last year, and this section was blocked off. But there's a pathway that goes all the way down the length of Boulder Dash. you can't You can't see this Rapids ride from anywhere else in the park.
00:54:13
Speaker
It's literally, I'm not even joking, a quarter to mile a quarter of a mile, maybe three-tenths of a mile away from the park. You get by Boulder Dash. You get by where their old Skyway used to be.
00:54:26
Speaker
And there's just a random Rapids ride right there.
00:54:30
Speaker
it's It makes no sense. It's the most isolated ride maybe in the country. They do have a train that goes around the like the lake. but it also doesn't stop right near the rapids. so I hear you on the dead ends. I'm trying to think of any others off the top of my head.
00:54:51
Speaker
Usually parks do a pretty good job at avoiding them. Yeah, i there are a couple that I think of with dead ends, but like It's so unfortunate, but the reality of it is a lot of the time they only do it because they have to. Like, I feel like it's put in the coaster or like, at a dead end or don't put in the coaster, which is where I think it falls into we end up with these dead ends.
00:55:19
Speaker
um
00:55:23
Speaker
One of the ones that I think of is um And I'm gonna go off of Rapids as well.
00:55:33
Speaker
But if the water park isn't open at Dorney Park, and even if the water park is open, you still don't really know this walkway is there, but they have this one like hidden walkway in the water park slash dead end that leads to a Rapids ride at Dorney Park.
00:55:49
Speaker
Um... that I think everyone I've ever met missed it unless they know about the rapids ride and specifically go looking for that ride. Um, no one knows to go like through that dead end area. That's a good point. Yeah. That is a pretty isolated ride. And then the the wettest rapids ride of all time.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah. It's literally the best rapids of all time, which the, ah which is the only reason that people know about it. Yeah. That ride's crazy. Have not been on it yet. Bring a change of clothes. Yeah, definitely bring a change of clothes. We rode it like in a 90 degree day and we still get to change clothes. It's so bad.
00:56:23
Speaker
It is the most insane Rapids ride in the pool. I always it's like jumping in a pool with your clothes on. Yeah. No different.
00:56:35
Speaker
I'm surprised none but none of us have brought up Cedar Point yet. That's an awkward layout. think about Cedar Point because Cedar Point's layout drives me crazy. bad.
00:56:47
Speaker
I can't stand the way out of this park. It's their land, so that they can't really do anything about it. ah Yeah, but like, oh it's still, some of it's so bad done. I'm trying to think, like, if you're over by Magnum, and you're trying to get, like, up to Gemini, and you have to go, like, all the way up and around everything, like, and you're standing right next to Gemini, like... I do wish there was a path, actually, back there that goes through the middle to, like, directly to Millennium Force.
00:57:15
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That's annoying. Also, this their skyway is too short. it doesn't It's more just you know nice views as opposed to actually transport. An actual transport system. I know. yeah like It doesn't even extend like halfway up the park.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yeah, it is so little and tiny. They got cedar downs, though. You can see the views of cedar downs from there. Right. Um, I will bring up, and this might be one of the only, i was just saying this to Allison, it might be one of the only even remotely negative things I ever say about this park.
00:57:52
Speaker
I, and I actually, we're going to get to a comment where Lam says, um, the complete opposite. I am not a fan of the Europa park layout. Um,
00:58:04
Speaker
There's aspects of You'll know soon enough. There's aspects of it that are really good. There definitely are. But that park is so big and it has so much that I don't think that there's any real like good way for them to um really make the layout completely cohesive.
00:58:26
Speaker
So there's some things where it's like... you you make what you think, like even following a map, it's like you're following a map and you think you're supposed to go this way and then you end up at a dead end.
00:58:38
Speaker
Or you end up in like a completely different section and the two sections don't touch and you can't get through. You have to go all the way back around where you came. um The layout is just extremely confusing.
00:58:50
Speaker
The one plus side to that park is it is the absolute best park in the world and it's a great park to be lost in. um So it's great to just be lost and stuck and not know where you're going.
00:59:01
Speaker
But... um i do remember when i was like trying to meet people and i was rushing and i i was just getting stuck and i was so frustrated
00:59:12
Speaker
yeah well yeah another similar comment from matt who said most parks don't really give me any trouble except fantaziland i could get lost there i take that is that's a good park you if you get lost oh no you're at fantaziland Yeah, but still, Fantasia Land, when I was there, their operating hours weren't long. if i If I wasn't with someone who knew that park really well, I would have been so frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to get around.
00:59:38
Speaker
We also get a few comments saying that both John, Mike, and Brayden about Dollywood being confusing. And I think I disagree.
00:59:50
Speaker
i find Dollywood pretty easy. It's basically a circle, right? I have not really had issues with Dollywood before. Because it's like left is Thunderhead, right is Lightning Rod. And then it's like... It's kind of a giant loop.
01:00:04
Speaker
Mystery Mine on the left, Tennessee Tornado on the right, and then Wild Eagles in the back. Yeah. Right. And then Wildwood Grove. I guess Wildwood Grove and Big Bear is a little bit of a dead end.
01:00:16
Speaker
Yeah. But I think they're working on expanding that and hopefully yeah connecting that back to something else. I don't know. That'd be a huge dead end.
01:00:26
Speaker
But um speaking of Hershend, we definitely had a few comments that I definitely agree with about Silver Dollar City. Specifically, Taylor said took him forever to find his way around Silver Dollar.
01:00:40
Speaker
And I will admit, as I mentioned with Kentucky Kingdom, usually after one visit, I'm good. And granted, I've only been to Silver Dollar City in one visit, but we were there two days. The second day, Megan and i still were like, where the hell is everything?
01:00:56
Speaker
Which I guess in a way is kind of charming because it's like, okay, we're not at a park. we actually It's the theming. Which I kind of like. That's what really got me about Silver Dollar City. It's not like any kind of real midway. There's no midway.
01:01:11
Speaker
like Midways kind of help get your bearings for parks. And I noticed that there's none there. And it kind of threw me when I realized that. Well, Taylor said he has a trick because the park is on a slope.
01:01:23
Speaker
Apparently if you're walking downhill, you're headed to the back. walking uphill, you're going to the front. So there's a little hint, guys. Somebody else had something similar. um Dan said, I think of it now as like the A in the Atlanta Braves hat. You come in at the top of the A, you can go to the right or the left towards the back of the park.
01:01:42
Speaker
ah Somewhere about two-thirds of the way down is the main path to connect from one side to the other, but it's not a straight ah straight line across. It's curvy. Interesting. Okay. That's a really creative way to look at it.
01:01:55
Speaker
Like, honestly, between Dan and Taylor, that might honestly really help me on my next episode. Yeah. Whenever that is. If I remember. You won't. I won't.
01:02:07
Speaker
yeah um There's another one in here that i I'm shocked none of us really brought up because I think that it's something we can all agree with. Yeah. But Busch Gardens, Tampa, um that park really does have, so it's not the whole park, but that park really has some spots that are really headache inducing. Okay, good.
01:02:28
Speaker
i was like Are you going to say it's a good one or a bad one? way and I agree, it's not a good one. yeah It has moments where it's not terrible, but for the most part, yeah, that park, the layout of that park is not my favorite at all.
01:02:42
Speaker
Things are spaced so far apart there, too. Like, trying to get to Shikra from Iron Gwazi takes so long. Yeah, and Kumba, Oh, yeah, you gotta walk with fool. And then when you're at Kumba, and you're like, oh, I want to go ride Montu, and then you're like, oh no.
01:02:55
Speaker
Yep. Yeah, you have to go, like, all the way around the park. it's But that's another... Unless I'm not remembering her correctly, that's another good example of dead ends as well. Like, Mantu and Cobra's Curse are just, like, you have to go back all the way through that area to get... Right.
01:03:14
Speaker
And walk through, like, the safari area or whatever. Yeah, it's just, that park's layout is just not very good. um Kennywood's another one that has been mentioned a couple times in here we haven't had the chance to talk about.
01:03:30
Speaker
um Pennsylvania just doesn't have good layouts. <unk> Because Knoebels is all over the place too. Well, I think Knoebels is just kind of because they're like, let's throw in as many things that we can. yeah Let's use every ounce of space that we possibly can. If you need to shimmy your way between two attractions, you will shimmy your way between two attractions.
01:03:52
Speaker
um But I do think that that has a lot to do with the hills and the valleys in the nature of Pennsylvania. Yeah, that's true. And yeah, it's say all the all the Pennsylvania parks. Well, Thorny's in a bit big city, but usually the other ones are kind of middle of nowhere.
01:04:09
Speaker
Durnie's really not, though. Durnie's in the Lehigh Valley, which is a set of hills valleys. Right. That's fantastic. yeah. it's It's such a weird... I feel like Pennsylvania's a really weird state just because of how quickly you move from the city of Philadelphia into the hills and the valleys and the mountains.
01:04:28
Speaker
ah You don't even realize. You're only 40 minutes outside of the city, and you're already in... um one of the valleys. So I think PA, it's just a hard layout to work with.
01:04:44
Speaker
Let's see some other examples that haven't been brought up. John, Mike, we haven't talked about Six Flags Fiesta Texas. Yeah, that's a pretty good circle.
01:04:52
Speaker
um There are a lot of comments about Six Flags over Texas being confusing. I've only spent like four hours there. so Well, Jen and i got that together, and I agree.
01:05:04
Speaker
That part was great. Not at all. There was a lot of dead-end things as well. we have I still can't get over the fact of, what is it called, Jolly Rogers? what whatever that wooden coaster is, you have to go like... Judge Royce Street.
01:05:18
Speaker
Oh, don't know. Charlie Rogers is the name of the place in Disneyland. um But not only is it a dead end, but it's like a really creepy under, like little tiny under the... It's the worst blockade ever.
01:05:35
Speaker
That was the worst for me, because you probably remember. I had to film all my reviews And remember, I'm like, all right, I'm going to just go off for like a couple hours.
01:05:45
Speaker
And I kept getting lost. I'm like, where's Titan? Where's freaking Judge Roy Scream? Where's Runaway Mountain? It was so frustrating. i was That was one of my most frustrating filming days, for sure, because even Shockwave. Shockwave was kind of hard to get to. Wasn't there like a weird path to get there as well?
01:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, like everything had really weird paths to get to. It was very hard to figure out. anything at that park. Um, yeah, I agree with this comment.
01:06:13
Speaker
I'm glad you and Tom are there. Cause otherwise not my favorite six flags. Yeah, it's, it definitely was not my favorite as well. I honestly don't think many of the six flags are laid out that well, but yeah, someone, uh, I want to get their name. Uh, Ethan brings up great adventure. We haven't talked great adventure while we did, but not for layouts.
01:06:33
Speaker
Uh, not great. It's kind of that T almost like a new England. Uh, Yeah, and I mean this in the most loving way, but I mean it was a lot worse last year, but now that they got rid of half of the park, I really don't think it's nearly as bad.
01:06:49
Speaker
And that, like, I mean that in the most, like, I know you gotta do what you gotta do, but like, they though they're literally knocked the most confusing parts of that park down, so now it feels a lot less difficult. Like, it's pretty straightforward now, I think.
01:07:05
Speaker
I hated how my opinion when you were a near Ka, you like thought El Toro was right there, but it was not. Yeah, you had really long pathways. When you were over by Ka, you were near nothing.
01:07:16
Speaker
No, it's deceiving because the the ending of Toro was right near where Ka was. You're like, oh, it must be right there. Yeah, that park, I think, was a lot worse with that whole section.
01:07:30
Speaker
So maybe I'll redo it. Maybe that'll be one good thing about the... Maybe. Probably not. Yeah, we'll see. I will say, and Allison probably can agree with this one, but in all of the years, so my family has been going to Six Flags Great Adventure in my whole entire life. That's where I grew up.
01:07:48
Speaker
That's where I fell love with roller coasters. Like, that was my home park. um My mom's number one complaint about that park and something that my family talks about on a regular basis is the fact that, like,
01:08:00
Speaker
general buildings just seemed to be like falling apart. Like they hadn't been painted since like the nineties. Like the the park itself just looked like it wasn't taken care of in a lot of places. Like the coasters were okay, but the park itself looked awful.
01:08:14
Speaker
From what I saw walking into that park, one good thing I think about this year is that those buildings look like they actually were cared for. And they actually took the time to just put on, like, a fresh coat of paint, fix the plaster that's falling off. Like, there would be parts of the decoration that were, like, falling apart, and Six Flags just, like, left it.
01:08:38
Speaker
I did not pay attention to the buildings in the least, I'll be honest. I saw they put a new sign up at the front, like, in the new, like, Cedar Fairified Great Adventure style. Yeah, so that was not there when I was there, but I did see a picture of it.
01:08:51
Speaker
But if you look at, like, um... If you look at any of the buildings compared to last year, like at least the ones that they touched so far, they just you could tell that they put in a little more care. Yeah,
01:09:05
Speaker
yeah I think another comment. Ethan said Carowinds. but yeah He says Circle Land. I don't know if Carowinds is Circle Land. It's more like straightaway, right?
01:09:17
Speaker
I found Carowinds to be really confusing. Yeah. Yeah. the kids area is kind of off to the left and that's kind of where I forgot. I've been there twice.
01:09:30
Speaker
But he also mentions i'm not looking forward to visiting Six Flags Discovery Kingdom this weekend. Because I've heard from other enthusiasts that it's the worst park layout out there. So very exciting he's going to Six Flags Discovery Kingdom this weekend.
01:09:42
Speaker
Yeah, I will ah be able to give feedback on that in about 48 hours. Oh, you're doing the same. Oh, look at that. Yeah, I fly out literally tomorrow night, and I'm not prepared in the least for this trip.
01:09:54
Speaker
I'm not happy that you're going on this trip. because Are you getting 600 this weekend? ah Yeah, I should. o I'm currently at 581, and we're doing Discovery Kingdom, CGA, and Santa Cruz, and Vegas.
01:10:11
Speaker
So could it be Big Island? No, because we're doing Big Apple tomorrow night when we're in Vegas. It'll either be at Santa Cruz or probably Canyon Blaster. Oh, okay. So You're bookending with Vegas?
01:10:26
Speaker
Yeah. Layovers. We have like a 10-hour layover in Vegas on Sunday during the day. Yeah, yeah. You're getting more credits over me. Whatever.
01:10:37
Speaker
me um and Sorry, go ahead now. um Tim had a good comment that I liked. um When you incorporate theming and being immersed, something that might be seen as confusing works to the park's advantage, like Silver Dollar City or probably Alton Towers. We'll report back on that in June.
01:10:57
Speaker
Theming, I think, can have a big impact on layout. Oh, I definitely agree with that. like Positive and negative. I think Animal Kingdom. Well, it is a it is a circle. It's kind of a confusing circle, but that's because all the lands are like so immersive.
01:11:12
Speaker
yeah Like Pandora is a mess in the best way. Yeah, sometimes the crazy paths lend themselves well to the theming. Yeah.
01:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that also, even if it's not even with the theming and it's like with the theming having to do with the pack path directly, I think it brings up what we were saying about Europa and Fantasjiland, where even though they have moments where they're extremely confusing because they're so immersive and because you're so engaged with the theming, you tend to be less...
01:11:45
Speaker
frustrated yeah with the layout kind of want to explore more and see like oh where where does this pathway take me this could be somewhere new yeah although ironically speaking of animal kingdom and dead ends dinoland was off yeah dinoland was a pretty bad dead end because it technically wasn't really a part of the circle you had to double back and then go back around to get to everest
01:12:11
Speaker
Yeah. That's how a lot of people end up viewing, which I know it's not like true, but that's how Pandora was viewed for a really long time because um that like little pathway out towards Festival the Lion King, people didn't know about that one for like at least a year or so.
01:12:28
Speaker
I don't think I knew about it until this past year. Yeah, it wasn't something that was used. And when, back when Flight of Passage used to get like five, six hour waits, it would be full with the queue.
01:12:41
Speaker
um you couldn't really walk that way. It was really difficult. um And that made Pandora a really terrible layout, but that makes, that relieves it a ton.
01:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. ah One other one, which I think Brian might be the only one able to talk on this one. um From what I've heard, and I don't know from experience yet, but Walt Disney Studios Park is but one that I continuously hear is an awful layout a park. Yeah, no, it's not great.
01:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that that whole park's just not great. Yeah, because any... don't hear anything good about that park. Tower of Terror's fun. But yeah, it's like Tower Terror is in the middle and then you get the Avengers stuff on the left and then the Toy Story and the Ratatouille on the right and I'm pretty sure they don't connect very well.
01:13:35
Speaker
I don't remember, but I remember it not being great.
01:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, i think I've heard that you have to walk like, ah just so kind of like what we were saying about Universal Studios where you have to you have to walk attraction to a attraction and then check the attractions. Yeah.
01:13:52
Speaker
It's a smaller park that feels bigger because of how much you have to walk. Yeah. It's unfortunate. Well, that was a good discussion. See, Allison, you made it work.
01:14:03
Speaker
Yeah. I know nothing. That's not true. You visit. Fine. You know when you're confused. yeah It goes not to get Allison confused.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yes, because that that does happen often. will how that goes this weekend. Flash. This summer. Enjoy your trip. I do have, sorry, I have one trivia question to ask.
01:14:26
Speaker
And it's one of my famous common bond questions. It's what do these four parks have in common? I will give you a hint. Kind of has to do with the theme of today's episode.
01:14:38
Speaker
So what do these four parks have in common? We have Park Asterix, Canada's Wonderland, Disneyland, and Tokyo DisneySea.
01:14:51
Speaker
There we go. What do those four parks have in common? Tokyo DisneySea, Disneyland, Canada's Wonderland, Park Asterisk. Once again, I am useless. Yeah, I need time to think on this one.
Wrap-Up and Farewell
01:15:05
Speaker
Let's see. Happy belated birthday again, Allison. I hope you had a great day. Yes. to think of what else is coming up. First week of April. My wife's birthday is coming up, April 8th.
01:15:18
Speaker
Happy birthday to her. She's the best. happy birthday Also, Hulk Vandelay, our biggest fan. When's his birthday? I think April 13th. Okay. There we go.
01:15:29
Speaker
Second week weekend of April. We're celebrating this weekend. Yeah, by the time of record again, that's true. That'll be after that. so Yeah. Shout out to Daniel. Happy So many birthdays. Yay, happy birthday.
01:15:43
Speaker
right. and And I think that brings us to the end of our episode. Woo! Brian has other more important things to go do. yeah I got my first live stream in about 20 minutes. Yeah, I hope you all enjoyed Brian's live stream. no idea what I'm doing.
01:15:58
Speaker
I will be in the chat. I can guarantee that. least one person will be there. Yay. no i'm I'm excited to to watch. Hopefully it's not too crazy. Yeah.
01:16:09
Speaker
All right. Until next time, guys. Hashtag whatever. Hashtag whatever. This was episode 13. We didn't talk Taylor Swift. Shame on us. What the heck? And I don't think that we mentioned Talon at Dorney Park until the last minute of the episode. we literally talked about Talon being in the front of Dorney.
01:16:27
Speaker
Oh, but i we didn't say Talon at Dorney Park. It doesn't count. Okay, guys. With that, have a great two weeks and remember to always think inverted.
01:16:58
Speaker
Bye.