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Streamer Spotlight: NaffGaines
301 Plays2 years ago
In the latest episode of Streamer Spotlight, Satsunami talks to the prolific streamer NaffGaines. From tales of Asda to the world of streaming, the duo discuss what it means to be a streamer in 2022.
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Transcript
Introduction: Meet Naff Gaines
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chad Tsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chad Tsunami. I'm Sad Tsunami and joining me today for another special streamer spotlight is my very good friend, Naff Gaines.
Podcast Production and Daily Life
00:00:30
Speaker
Yo, hello everyone. Hey there, Jesus, you made me jump there.
00:00:33
Speaker
Sorry, sorry, I'm just ready to go. I'm raring. Yeah, how are you doing today, now? I'm doing good, I'm doing good. It's been a busy day as most of them are right now, but it's been a good day. It's been productive. How are you doing? Not too bad. Pretty much the same. Just glad it's Friday. Well, Friday as we record this, probably not a Friday when we release the episode, so I apologise for getting people's hopes up who are listening today.
00:00:55
Speaker
That's going, thank God it's ready. He's really busting these out fast while we're in instant turnaround. That shadow aider sort of got just fantastic. Yeah, it's just sweating. It's like a Simpsons episode where it's like the animation is live. Oh yeah. It's a really big strain on the animator's wrist. It's such a good episode.
Improv and Acting Background
00:01:16
Speaker
sorry i'm in a really bad habit of in these like interview situations spinning the interview around so if i if i steal your interview seat you can be like hey get get out of that seat that's the interviewer seat interviewee seat just like go on get get yeah no no that's perfectly fine with me you know i think the worst thing could be if i was like how are you doing and you just went good yeah just give you nothing to work with it's the most difficult guest you've ever had yeah it's like so do you like twitch
00:01:44
Speaker
yes or even worse if I just say no and no explanation it's like have you ever seen that it's like the Liam decent improv sketch oh yeah and he wants to make it dark uh yeah it's like but every time he's coming into the quote-unquote flower shop and he just keeps saying we're close
00:02:01
Speaker
He's like, no, you have to. You have to give me something here. And he's like, oh, no. And he's still in the first rule of improv, yes and, as opposed to no both. That is true. What was that out of again? That's just actual. Was that just in general? Yeah, that is what I learnt when I was studying acting. And it's something that I think is just parroted in like every show that is touched upon acting. I think it's just something that you taught pretty early on when you're learning improv. How long were you doing that for?
00:02:29
Speaker
Um, so I, I started doing acting during my GCSEs. So what age 14, go to 13 to go to 14 when you start GCSEs. And then you finish just before you turn 16. And then I continued that on, got a BTEC level three and then a bachelor's in acting. So seven to eight years in total, I think.
00:02:53
Speaker
I have to admit, for my school our acting department or rather our drama department was not very good.
Drama School Anecdotes
00:03:00
Speaker
So much so that there was actually a class where the teacher just didn't turn up. So all of the kind of unruly and misbehaved kids decided to root through the props and for about 45 minutes we got to see them all dressed up as Wizard of Oz characters.
00:03:16
Speaker
I wish I could say that was like an exception, but I think that's sort of a universal experience of the acting departments and acting teachers. Like there was one class where the teacher just didn't show up and he was like, oh yeah, I was buying Bob Dylan tickets or I think it was Bob Dylan or maybe like Marina Room of Diamonds, some like indie pop rock artist. And he was like, yeah, that was more important to me, sorry.
00:03:41
Speaker
Like, I'm 50 grand in debt now. And you didn't show up. Oh wait, was that for you? Yeah.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. I think you meant school, sorry. No, that was during, like, pay-to-win days of education. Oh, Jesus. Why did you get the feeling that's probably not his first time
Career Expectations in Acting
00:04:00
Speaker
doing that? It definitely was not. He was a free spirit and he was very much set your sights realistically. Chances are you're going to work in a bar and be a bartender, but sometimes every couple of months you might get a little bit of a role on Vera. And for the most part, that has been completely accurate.
00:04:19
Speaker
So it's not like he was wrong. He was just brutalistic in his approach to it. Well, I mean, technically it was wrong. You did become a Twitch streamer. I don't know if he would call that a win. I don't know if... Oh, don't be modest. I don't think when he's applying for other jobs, he's like, have you ever heard of Naff? I taught him. Wow. I know, right?
00:04:42
Speaker
the Superstar that went all the way to Shindo and back. I don't think that I'm considered one of his wins. I think it would be pretty pure if he had your picture pinned up in the Hall of Fame or something and you just didn't know it. If he gives me a frame. You never know, he might phone you up and just be like, oh. Horrified. I would be horrified.
00:05:06
Speaker
You know, he was a great teacher, but I don't believe that what I do now and what he taught me would coexist in the same space. He was very much like an artist, and I'm just like, well, I like doing this thing. You know, definitely different levels of engagement, I'd say. Different vibes as a kid, see? He was very much, you have to suffer for your art. Are you hungry? You better be, because that is what it's like to be an artist.
00:05:32
Speaker
And I'm just like, you know, if you can eat, that's kind of important. And anything beyond that
Retail Experiences and Customer Service
00:05:39
Speaker
is just gravy. I can just imagine after the class, you're being like, so you don't want McDonald's or anything. It's like, OK, fair enough. He was one of his teachers that would genuinely, if you asked a question that was kind of dumb, would be like, you need to start practicing. Would you like fries with that? Because that's all you're going to be saying. Very brutal, very brutal, but a great teacher.
00:06:01
Speaker
I genuinely don't know how to feel about that because you're absolutely
Journey to Becoming a Twitch Streamer
00:06:04
Speaker
right. There's a lot of teachers out there that are fantastic, but then when you actually get to talking to them. I had a history teacher who kind of inspired me in a way. Don't get me wrong, spoilers. I didn't go into teaching in the end, but I was kind of wanting to go into teaching, but then every day he would just sit there and be like, don't go into teaching. It just robs your soul. I'm so depressed. I remember I was helping them take up boxes and the lift.
00:06:31
Speaker
in school and it was just me and him. He was just standing there like one of these like David Lynchian films like just don't go into teaching that so it's just it's not worth it. You know, teaching's changed and everything else was like okay. I don't believe that you can be a good teacher and also be happy. I actually kind of agree with that just because the way the education system is set
00:06:55
Speaker
up, the good teachers are always going to want to do more than they're allotted to, and they will have more classes than they'd like because they'd rather do depth and width and just the way it's set up. It's not going to work out that way, so I don't think you can be a good teacher and also be happy within the system that's set out, which is a shame.
00:07:18
Speaker
But your teacher did remind me that I spent four weeks working at ASDA when I was 16, and I was initially interviewed to stock the shelves. It was a first job, so to speak, and just how I presented myself in the interview, they liked me and they wanted to put me on the tills, which by the way, I don't think they were able to.
00:07:41
Speaker
just because I was 16 and I'd be like selling alcohol and stuff, but either way they did. And there was one person in the break room and he was like, oh, how long are you in for? Which is like a, the line that I said to a prisoner, not to an employee, but he was like, yeah, how long are you in for? And I was like, oh yeah, I'm just here for four weeks during the summer holidays. And he looked me dead in the windows to my soul. And
00:08:04
Speaker
said, that was me as well. It's been eight years. And he didn't try to sway my decision. He didn't say leave. He just said, that was me once. It's been eight years. And I left soon after. I was going to say, do you still go to that ouster or have you never been back since?
00:08:24
Speaker
Um, so like I'm someone that will avoid going to like big supermarkets. I mean, clearly the last two years, everyone has been avoiding that, but I've never been a fan of going. I've seen that person around and from what I know, they're still there now. And that would have been 10 years ago this year. So.
00:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, moment of silence for that person. Yeah, O7. O7, did you say? Yeah. That is a long time. Yeah. I think if anything, the pandemic and the lockdowns would have been a change of pace for him. Maybe, maybe, maybe he's going to be listening in to this and be like, damn, he got out, he got out.
00:09:07
Speaker
That made it. He's a twitch dreamer. My dream. Anyway, sorry. I'm not laughing at him in particular. It's just the thought of him like wistfully looking out the window like I had dreams once in hopes and then Asda crushed him, which I'm not gonna lie with my experiences going into Asda. I can see it.
00:09:28
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie, I can see that kind of, yeah. Oh yeah, you can be delicate about it. I'll say it retail as hell. Oh yeah, I think next to teaching, retail was probably the next one that people, or most people say, I do not enjoy that job because I think the closest experience I got was I volunteered at a
00:09:47
Speaker
it was like a charity shop and even then it was like the amount of people that just cause beef for no reason and I'm like if this is what it's like for a charity shop I honestly cannot imagine what it's like for supermarkets and things like that or... Did you have people trying to haggle for like a cheaper seventh hand scarf?
00:10:07
Speaker
Well, would you believe it? We had a guy who came in and he gave over £20 for, I can't even remember, he bought like a small trinket which was like, I don't know, 70p or something. But then as soon as he got his change, he started asking for his £20 note back but he would want his change. He wanted to give him his change but take the £20.
Streaming as a Creative Outlet
00:10:29
Speaker
Oh that's a scam, that's a scam. The secret is to that is they will pay for something, ask for the money back and then ask for money back in a certain amount hoping that eventually you trip up and give them too much. Ah okay. He was very confrontational about it right, not to me personally because I think it was another case of I wasn't
00:10:51
Speaker
I don't think I was old enough to work the tiles, really. That was only the effort I set a minute of time, so it kind of didn't make sense. I was like kind of helping, you know, stalk the shells, make sure it was tidy and everything. And yeah, he ended up, he just stormed out. He had an argument with the basically everybody in the shop and then he stormed out yelling. Can I just say yelling in front of a charity shop? I will never shop here again.
00:11:14
Speaker
It's like, OK, OK, Shakespeare, you go. Yeah, I think the secret is to that is just cause enough of a fuss to where the employees, like, this isn't worth a fight. Just take everything. Yeah, if there's any retail worse out there listening to this, yeah, be careful. I definitely have not closed out the podcast because they were like, this was my escape. And now they're bringing my life into the podcast, into my escape, my safe haven.
00:11:44
Speaker
This is just like your villain origin story, hasn't it? One of many, one of many. Of course. Yeah, so going back to Twitch and leaving behind retail to which I think the guy listening to this from the Asda staff room is just like, oh, thank God.
00:12:01
Speaker
It's either that or he's turned off by now, but anyway. He's put his finger through his phone hitting the plus 30 seconds button so many times. Next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next, please. Yeah, I'm actually going to check the papers like the day this comes out to see if there's any local man who raised it for causing a fuss and that stuff. It's like, oh, he was listening to Chance and that was like, hey, it's me. Ta-da.
00:12:25
Speaker
but yeah going back onto as you know I subtly alluded to you of course being on Twitch I actually remember, do you remember the first stream that we met on? I want to say that was probably a Doki Doki stream if you met on mine and I want to say you were probably doing like Red Dead Redemption 2
00:12:50
Speaker
I think it was even earlier than that because I used to do like cold streams on a Friday with one of my friends GreenShule95 and we were playing through Pokemon Emerald and I don't know if you came through from a raid or you just like happened upon it by chance.
00:13:07
Speaker
but I always remember that you coming in and at the time of course you were thinking of living in China at the time and saying you know oh it's great you should pop by my stream and can I just say this is like a mission I don't think I've ever said this to you but you were the reason one day that
00:13:23
Speaker
I didn't manage to get my garden done. Because I kid you not, I remember after that stream, I remember following you right away. And I have to admit, not in a bad way, but when you said that you were in China, I thought you meant you were, you know, Chinese. But when I came on, I was like, ah, different. You must be really confused. I was. It was clearly English. I was like, huh, okay, interesting.
00:13:49
Speaker
plot twist but yeah it was like I popped into your Doki Doki stream and I remember that was like that was definitely your was it your early days of streaming. Doki Doki was my first series and it was my third or fourth
00:14:05
Speaker
stream. So before I did Doki Doki, I did two just chatting streams. I only did the second one because the first one, I didn't finish my project. So essentially what happened was I had been teaching in China, lockdown happened, I was teaching online, then the school started to open up again. And I had a friend over there who was also streaming. And I was like, I've got all the equipment to stream because of online teaching. I don't know what I'm
00:14:32
Speaker
gonna do with it but i'd maybe like to start streaming on twitch and one day we went go carting together and got a couple of bevs in afterwards then i was like you know what i've got a dnd podium i need to build and i'm a little bit inebriated now's a perfect time to do my first stream and i a was a little bit too inebriated to finish the podium that stream and also i didn't have all the power tools necessary to finish it
00:14:59
Speaker
So that was my second stream.
Challenges and Style in Streaming
00:15:01
Speaker
After that, there was an issue. There was a game I wanted to buy on Steam specifically to stream it. I can't remember what it was actually.
00:15:12
Speaker
but I know that buying games over there was difficult because A, I had pretty much wiped all my English money out getting to China and then I just didn't really care about filling it back up because I didn't need it at the time so I had to get like a Chinese person to gift the game to me using their Chinese bank account to pay for it and then I'd pay them back. There's something wrong with it though and I couldn't buy the game I wanted so I was just going through my library and I was like you know what I've never played Doki Doki
00:15:38
Speaker
it could be good and if it's not it could just be like a little bit of content and I did it and I remember specifically the first time I did it I was streaming for like 20 minutes just non-stop talking voicing all the characters you know as big as I am when I do the visual novel stuff and then someone who is watching to this day came in and was like yeah your mic is muted
00:16:01
Speaker
But then, during that stream, I met Midna, who then introduced me to Captain Hart, and then I believe Captain Hart raided you, which is how I came into your stream. I think that is from Atom to
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, I just like going back to what was saying before like I remember being in one of your Doki Doki streams and initially I remember thinking right okay I'm gonna pop in for a couple of minutes and then I'm gonna go outside I'm gonna cut my grass I'm gonna get shit done today I spent like a good I think half hour to an hour just watching your stream
00:16:43
Speaker
because of how energetic you were. All your voices were amazing. I think because you dropped a Yu-Gi-Oh! reference on there at one point, I was just like, oh yeah, this guy's awesome.
00:16:54
Speaker
It does sound like a bit of a brag, but I have been told that I'm frustrating to have on a second monitor because people try to do work and then you'll just end up watching the second monitor more than they're meant to, or they'll just lose track of time, which is a great compliment to receive.
00:17:13
Speaker
and I like to think that that still is the case now. No, we can definitely confirm that, yeah. I'm not just saying that because you're on a January, like my grass was like Gemanja levels. By the end of that week I was like, god damn it now. But no, I was honestly, I was really glad because it was like such a nice kind of group. As you were saying there before, you know, there was Midna, there was Captain Hart as well coming in and I think that was
00:17:40
Speaker
probably for me that was probably the first couple of months I want to say when I started streaming but I'm quite curious though like why like I actually said it was your friend to recommend streaming but why what made you choose Twitch specifically or was it just because they were
00:17:57
Speaker
It wasn't that. I think that because of where I was, I was always going to be fighting an uphill battle because of the VPN issues and just the fact that my setup at the time wasn't ideal. So I definitely wasn't picking the road.
00:18:14
Speaker
that would be easy for me. As to why it was Twitch, YouTube at the time just wasn't really an option. I think that YouTube has come a long way in live streaming stuff but it was not what I wanted at the time and I'd been casually watching Twitch since I think 2013 anyway and I was like this is just what I know.
00:18:37
Speaker
and I kind of understand the culture more. Whereas YouTube, my issue with YouTube, and that still is kind of the case today, is that you can't really make your mark on it. Whereas Twitch, you can have your emotes, you can have your panels, you can create a bespoke experience for you. YouTube is getting there, but it's not there yet. And I think without a great overhaul, it's not going to get there. And what are the other options?
00:19:05
Speaker
I think Mixer might have been a thing for time. Dodged a bullet by not going to Mixer. Provo was just getting set up. It would have been easy to stream because that is trainees owned, but I've just for whatever reason was like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, it was just a way to pass the time. And also I thought.
00:19:22
Speaker
push comes to shove, maybe the school shut down again. It'd be nice to have something to go back to and something to potentially be a gateway to getting enough money to get me out of the country if needs be. So I take it Billy Billy wasn't an option either then.
00:19:39
Speaker
Um, you say that. I think I might have looked into it. I looked into potentially doing it on a Chinese app, but also, and this is not so much my content now, but I used to like, you know, take questions about what life was like over there. And a small part of me was like a little bit paranoid because I'm very candid in how I speak about like life experiences and stuff.
00:20:04
Speaker
And a small partner was like, hmm, it might not be the smartest idea to do so on a website that might not be as secure as Twitch. I mean, that's fair enough. And even on Twitch, would you say though, like in Twitch especially, like it is kind of wise? I know this sounds like obvious PSA, but as wise to kind of draw like a line for how much you share on stream.
Setting Boundaries and Community Influence on Twitch
00:20:28
Speaker
i think i play it looser than most people but that is a line that is individual to every single person and just because i draw the line 10 feet back from where you might draw the line it doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong it just so happens to be that i'm like fairly loose of what happens on my stream like i i know for a fact i don't really care about playing copyrighted music if i get hit with it i'll be like you know what i probably deserved it
00:20:56
Speaker
And beyond that, you know, I go by like artistic impulse because this isn't something that I necessarily see myself doing forever. It's just something that I want to do while I am this person that I am right now at 26 years of age.
00:21:11
Speaker
I mean, that's fair enough though. You definitely, like, going back to what you were saying about making your impact on like YouTube and things, it is safe to say that you've definitely made an impact on your corner of Twitch. Yeah, like, um, one of the coolest things I think about Twitch is that when you start making friends on Twitch, you can see parts of yourself bleed into them and you can see parts of them bleed into you. So whether that is
00:21:38
Speaker
maybe a greeting that you do or like a channel point redemption that is inspired by someone else, you can kind of track where ideas come from and all the ways it's spouted off. So one of the first channel point redemptions I did was Positive and Affirmations and that is still there to this day and it's just
00:21:57
Speaker
like 20 second quick improv where I'm positive about anything. And I've seen other people put their own spin on it. And I think that's really cool. I think some people can be maybe a little bit protective over that type of thing. Now I think that's great. I think you go back to the ancient Greek days, you've got Aristotle writing poetics and he says there's only seven stories you can tell. Anything after that is a remix.
00:22:22
Speaker
I don't think I've stopped to use the word remix. I think that's a fairly contemporary word, but I think that is true with pretty much everything. And I like the fact that you can track how people have seen your content and been inspired by it. That is quite an interesting point right now. Your community definitely does shape
00:22:41
Speaker
who you become as a streamer i would say oh yeah 100% i i don't think i would be the person that i am now had i not started streaming i mean at one point i had the the pink hair which is you know the generic streamer thing you know you dye your hair a weird color because you're like this is my job now i can do whatever with my hair i don't have that now but i wouldn't have had it had i not been a streamer so what you're saying this it's your mod swap for that
00:23:09
Speaker
I'm trying to think what the impetus was for the colored hair. I think it wasn't even a mod thing. I think what happened was I'd already dyed my hair because we had the sparkling water debate. And I was like, you know what? If we hit X-Go, I will drink one sparkling water on stream. And I was like, this is going to be really crap.
00:23:31
Speaker
if i just drink a sparkling water and i'm like well i didn't like it but it's done so i thought i've got to make a sure out of it so when i knew we were going to hit the goal i dyed my hair and i wore a hat that day and then when i
00:23:46
Speaker
finished the drink i took the hat off quote-unquote because it was hot and people were like whoa and then i i saw myself in window preview and i was like whoa what's the spark and what had done for me i think that was the first first pass of like stream molding me and then i was like you know what let's just see how far we can go with this
00:24:05
Speaker
So I did the pink thing, and pink was like a branding thing for a while, I'd say pretty much until four months ago. And yeah, just parts of my lexicon, how I talk, are definitely shaped because of the fact that I stream now. That sounds like a terrible bit. Are the pink-haired emotes still on your chart as well?
00:24:27
Speaker
Some of them are, so better twitch TV, the extension of those emotes are still pink because I've got something like 20 of them and it would take forever to recreate them or be edit the hair color.
00:24:42
Speaker
And also I kind of like the idea that it represents the story to get to where I am now as opposed to I've just hopped out as the stream that I am here and now I like the idea that someone could go back and kind of like see that progression.
00:24:57
Speaker
I have to admit, and I mean this in the best way possible, but your streams have never been static in terms of how they're developed. Because, I mean, from your Doki Doki stream, your personality, of course, and your acting chops, I swear, you know, they absolutely shone through, and that's what caused me personally to think, wow, this is a really engaging stream, and it was great. And then, the writer, as you said, you know, there was the positive affirmations, you had new transitions, which were absolutely fantastic.
00:25:25
Speaker
And it has, honestly, from what I've seen, it just keeps growing and growing. I think a big part of that is I get bored of things very, very, very quickly. I think maybe faster than a lot of people do. And I think if I can get bored of something, other people will. So I like to keep it fresh and
00:25:45
Speaker
Also just, I like the fact that it is transient. You know, the skill set that I have now is 10 times what it was a year ago, which is still 10 times more than it was when I first started, because it's been 18 months now. And I like the fact that you can again, chart that progression from the days of streaming for 20 minutes without having a mic
00:26:12
Speaker
on to where I am now with a kind of high-tech setup and everything being pretty much where I want to be for the time being. I like the fact that you can see that progression and I think that is a big part of why the audience that I had when I first started has stuck around for the most part because they are going on this journey with me as opposed to I've done this for 18 months and it's
00:26:39
Speaker
I'm still the same person. I've not changed. And I completely, you know, put my hands up and say not every change has been good. And I know that there are some things that I've done that have probably not worked in a way that I've wanted to. But the process of making it, I enjoy so much. I don't mind too much if I miss every now and again. I mean, to be honest, especially with Twitch is just the case of trial and error, isn't it?
00:27:07
Speaker
and because the website molds a person and vice versa you can really just make your own path you know you could be be static if you wanted i could be static if i wanted thing is i just don't considering the amount of things you do to include your community and everything because i think i said this in the episodes previously so i'll sound like a broken record here but one of the big
00:27:33
Speaker
parts of Twitch is definitely trying to build up a community to watch you and I know you do an absolute fantastic job with kind of engaging viewers with as you said your positive affirmations the channel rewards and things getting them to get involved
00:27:49
Speaker
But there is this misconception that you can just go on Twitch and, as you said, remain static and just be like, OK, guys, we're going to play. I don't want to name a specific game to call someone out. I mean, I will say it because my sidebar is filled with it. Elden Ring, maybe. Of course. Yep. You mean that small one game that came out a couple of weeks ago? Yeah, only like one or two people are playing it. I actually saw someone that follow a player and I was like, oh, I wonder how many people were watching them. And it was like,
00:28:19
Speaker
probably a hand tool and again that's not a slight against them it's more a slight against the interest I think because I think everyone's probably interested in playing it today then. I said a couple of weeks ago like by the time this episode comes out it'll be a couple of weeks ago yeah it's I mean have you tried it yet? ELDEN RING I have not so I've never played a Dark Souls game I've never played Bloodborne, Sekiro and I don't think it is for me
00:28:46
Speaker
It isn't a game I'd want to stream even if I did enjoy playing it, just because it is a very heavy game in the concentration needed and the story. That's not really what I'm about. I'm more about
00:29:03
Speaker
gaming as a backdrop for doing these sketches with chat or these deep conversations and the game just happens to be a secondary.
Gaming Preferences and Content Evolution
00:29:14
Speaker
So I'd rather play something like Jump King, Monkey Ball, Pokemon where the game can be a focus but also take a backseat if necessary.
00:29:23
Speaker
I remember, and I think you were in the, in fact no, I know for a fact you were in these streams because we had the big tofu debate. The Red Dead Redemption 2 one. I don't know if I want to bring that up in this. Yeah, long story short, I have a very controversial tofu opinions. Hashtag cancels, that's not, no please don't.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah in that particular series I think I played it for about six or so streams and I just I always remember getting really burned out with it because I was like trying to get through the game and I was kind of thinking if I don't get through the game people aren't going to be interested in it. So it's like you're saying you have to kind of
00:30:04
Speaker
split your attention between the game itself and the chat so i'm in the same boat i love playing games like you know fall guys or even sonic or games that i've played before that don't require as much attention so that you can bounce off the chat if anything's going down or
00:30:21
Speaker
kind of keep it casual because the amount of times where I've seen a game like Warzone or the sweaty streamers, you know what I'm talking about. That's the exact one.
00:30:39
Speaker
then it'll say number one victory royale and feel to say let's go let's go yeah and they'll have like techno music blasting in the background and then if you say hi in the chat they'll go hey or not even a hey like some kind of ah noise and you're like
00:30:54
Speaker
What was that? I think just for me, I think that that type of streaming definitely does have a place, but it is a lot easier for me to consider myself an entertainer than a gamer. And I think to focus your stream on high level gameplay is brave.
00:31:15
Speaker
because that is something that's going to ebb in and out. And let's say, you know, you can be absolutely cracked on war zone. The next college comes out and it just doesn't click with you. It's like, um, hmm.
00:31:28
Speaker
do I do now? Because I mean I think that is like one of the dangers of, you know, because for the most part I do talk to people who are variety streamers, yourself included, hashtag variety streamer gang, but at the same time if you're playing a particular game like say Warzone or Halo or even I've heard people say Team Fortress as well and then
00:31:50
Speaker
you change over to like another game or the mechanics completely change it is just going to throw them off their game and something that as you said you know they might be like amazing at it on their heyday and then a month later the next one comes out and they're just back to the bottom again it's the opposite of what's that mean where it's like started from the bottom now we're here
00:32:10
Speaker
Oh, was it Macklemore? Or was it possibly? No, it was Drake. It was Drake that. Oh, it was a Drake, yeah. Yeah, it's like the anti-Drake. It's like started at the top and now we're at the bottom again. That was my experience with... I used to be really into Call of Duty. This was when I was maybe
00:32:27
Speaker
15 years old so black ops came out i had like a 6 kd ratio and 14th prestige which was one of the highest you could get then modern warfare 3 came out just did not click with me and i just hated it and i've not really got into a college of the game since
00:32:47
Speaker
mean Call of Duty is one of those series that unlike Halo where although the kind of gameplays change that's still the same game relatively whereas in a probably pissed off I've got a Halo fan saying that. So if we get a lot of comments on this now you know it'll be all the lovely Halo fans.
00:33:05
Speaker
There's engagement farming, engagement farming. Exactly. Your call of duty, overrated. Yeah, come on, bring the engagement number. I know what you mean, it's like for call of duty, especially for a game series that comes out every year, every two years.
00:33:20
Speaker
you know, it's kind of in flux just now, but a game series that's so frequent and it keeps changing the landscape, the gimmicks, the historical kniss of it, whether they want to be or they want to be futuristic, you know, I can totally say what you mean. It would be really hard to keep that consistency. And I have to admit, I don't know if you've seen those YouTubers, you know, the ones who are like, their whole identity is built on like college utility leaks and things like that.
00:33:48
Speaker
And then they have to like, you know, the Brendan Fraser, where it's the eyes and it's like, they have to pretend that they're so interested in the next gold camel or like Vanguard. And they're like, oh boy, I can't wait. And you know, as soon as they turn that camera off, they're able to cry in the dark room. The Treyarch's like, it's time for your 3am new trailer drop. And it's like, oh yes, Treyarch, okay.
00:34:12
Speaker
You know, I wouldn't be surprised getting the email like, ding dong, you know what time it is. No, Treyarch, please. So I take it you've never been inspired to do Call of Duty on the stream. If I did, it would be a backdrop. Like I've thought, I think the modern day equivalent would be streaming Fortnite. And to be fair, I've thought about doing it because I actually enjoy playing Fortnite. I just think that it doesn't match what I want to do.
00:34:38
Speaker
right now on stream, but I wouldn't be against it. The thing is I, as you've said, I'm always in flux. I'm always transitioning from one thing to another. I don't know what I'm going to do six months from now. I don't know what I'm going to do two weeks from now. I barely know what I'm going to do next week. So I'd never say never, but it's one of those things where I, the only thing I can say is that I can't guarantee I wouldn't do it.
00:35:07
Speaker
That is just the state of Twitch, I suppose. And I know I said that before, but with a lot of streamers, especially from when we both kind of started out, because did we start relatively at the same time, like a couple of months apart, or was it? June 2020 is what I say is my start month, or like July 2020.
00:35:27
Speaker
I think you were a couple of weeks before me. Yeah, I think I was in like late March, early April maybe. You were affiliate when we met and I was not. Right, okay. I'm just thinking of like when we were starting out and I know it sounds weird to kind of reminisce because it was only two years ago, you know, it was like, ah, back when Twitch didn't have permanent ads, there weren't as many heat raids.
00:35:50
Speaker
i'm only kidding there probably was but it's just weird how it has changed like do you find that as well that a lot of the streamers that you used to follow and talk to are kind of like slowly disappearing um i think there there has been like a changing of guard where a lot of people that i used to hang out with have maybe like fallen away from twitch but i think that is a healthy thing and i think that's
00:36:14
Speaker
for the most part kind of good. Like I say on my stream that in an ideal world everyone in the chat is doing so well and is so busy that ideally they might not even have time to to come in and that's completely fine because it means that they're doing great outside of Twitch. I think that when we started Twitch a lot was for a lot of people an escape from the you know this new world that was burgeoning at the
00:36:43
Speaker
time, and as we're coming out of it, the streamers that are continuing to stream are maybe a little bit more permanent, and are a little bit more resolved, and for the most part, I think that it's a good place. I think that if you live on Twitter too much, you will doom scroll, and you'll see people say, it's the worst website on the internet,
00:37:08
Speaker
It's not that bad, all things considered. It's just a consequence of being so connected and being able to get opinions from all over the place. You think it's bad. Honestly, I don't necessarily like a lot of stream culture, but if I was so against it, I just wouldn't be streaming, you know? And I think I've done a pretty good job of cultivating the people that I hang around.
00:37:32
Speaker
to where I'm happy with where things are and I'd say that there have been times when I've been streaming where there's been a little bit of a let's say a blip where I'm not too happy where my direction is going and I've managed to circumvent that in some way and it's good now. Just kind of bent an off from that. What would you say are the kind of main challenges
00:37:58
Speaker
that you found just when you said about certain aspects of like the streaming culture and things like that. I think the big thing is just you don't need to be combative. I think that if you are on Twitter you're going to see some really bad takes.
00:38:15
Speaker
And I think that by engaging with that, firstly, you're just pumping up whoever has the awful take. And secondly, it's just you're two people at an impasse that are just getting more and more dug into your opinion,
Social Media and Unique Identity
00:38:30
Speaker
you know? So nowadays, my new thing is whenever I see a bad take on Twitter, I just post a picture of Sonic in like comic book form, and he's like on the ground and Shadow standing over him and he's saying,
00:38:42
Speaker
They're beating your ass in QRTs just because that is my way of saying, I don't approve of this, but I also don't care enough to engage with it because I'm not in the business of changing opinions. That's been just ideal for me. And then you just block with abandon, ban with abandon, and you can cultivate a feed that is really healthy and varied, but healthy.
00:39:09
Speaker
I do think though that there is almost, especially for news streamers, there is almost this kind of need for validation, especially when you're set now to make a name for yourself and where better a place to start doing that, obviously other than Twitch, but you have to look at other social medias and then you end up looking at Twitter and you're not wrong.
00:39:33
Speaker
I'm gonna be honest, you're definitely not wrong because Twitter, although I do agree it's not the worst place on the internet, but it is definitely a place that is, I mean especially for like streaming, but again this could be said for any social media, you know like Facebook or Instagram or things like that. It's quite hard to, and I don't know if you've ever felt like this in your kind of early days, but it's quite easy to try and compare yourself to people who are like on the same level
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah. That's not a stream problem. That's like a human problem. I think that you can approach it as a streamer or you can think business owner. And when you think of it as business owner, you can be streaming, you can be video editing, you can be knitting and find competition that are doing better than you and find competition that are doing worse than you. If you let that affect you, it's going to end pretty badly. And I think that.
00:40:29
Speaker
If you look at streaming as a quote unquote business, you have some pretty scary statistics. For example, what is it something like nine out of 10 businesses fail within the first year? If you approach streaming as a business, you go in knowing that chances are a year from now, you're not going to be doing it.
00:40:46
Speaker
But if you approach it as a hobby like I have, which I consider myself to be a hobby streamist, I don't see myself doing this long, long, long term. I'm just doing it for as long as it makes sense. And then I would be more than happy to to take a backseat if something in my real life or a job as part of my online life had to take precedent. I'd be OK with that because I don't see this as anything other than just having a good time. And I think that is why I don't
00:41:16
Speaker
too much to compare? No, it's totally a good point. It's something I think that especially for new people coming into it, they don't take that approach and I think your approach is definitely the best way to look at it because you could easily say, you know, you look at someone else who has, as you said, a very terrible take and you'll go, oh well, although they've got a terrible take, why are they getting this much attention and things? And it is just like, especially mental health-wise, it's a very slippery slope.
00:41:45
Speaker
of caging yourself within this one area of the internet and thinking, I need to be, I was about to quote Pokemon there and be the very best. I was like, god damn it, right in the middle on a serious point.
00:42:01
Speaker
to compare yourself to someone else. Like there was a streamer, I assume that you probably know them because you are friends with Captain Heart, but Simaris, do you remember Simaris? Oh yes. Yeah, so he's doing amazing stuff right now.
00:42:17
Speaker
And he's like achieved loads of his goals. He's doing good stuff. I think that his approach and my approach are two very different things, but his approach makes sense for him. If I were to look at his success and think I want to emulate that, what I'm essentially saying is I can be a better him than him.
00:42:35
Speaker
which is not true. I think that if you compare yourself, that is an ego thing. And if you completely imitate someone, you're either not going to get the success that you think you're going to because you're not being genuine as where they are doing that out of a genuine want to be that way. And you're essentially saying, I understand what that person's doing, and I think I can do it better.
00:43:00
Speaker
And I think that's a really toxic way to be. So yeah, I've always just followed my own artistic impulse and iterated as opposed to imitated. And it's worked out as well as I've needed it to. Has it worked out as well as in an ideal world it would? No, but I think everyone has that.
00:43:22
Speaker
where it's the what's it it's the illness of more or something where no matter how much you have you're always going to have this need for more whether you admit it or not and then eventually you know your xqc and you're like emperor Nero crying because you have no more lands to conquer and
00:43:39
Speaker
It's completely true though. I think this is something that there is kind of a misconception in terms of when people come on to Twitch and they look at it as either easy money or, as you said, they're going to be the next XQC. I always get his name mixed up. I just remember the letters and I'm like,
00:44:00
Speaker
I'd write a letter. But yeah, they're looking to be like their next idol, and I think the takeaway from it is, especially for me, is it's okay not to be them. Because if the world was filled with Pokemains, Ninjas and things, Twitch would be a very, very boring place. You know, like if everybody was exactly the same streamer, and I know what you mean about some artists like
00:44:23
Speaker
I don't know what he's doing nowadays, but back then I remember he was doing a lot of Fall Guys streams and I saw that even the Fall Guys developers, because he was doing so well there, they were contacting them through his tweets and things. Yeah, he's had it back and forth with the Fall Guys Twitter before. You know, you could see that in the distance and you think, wow, that's absolutely amazing.
00:44:44
Speaker
at the same time I see exactly what you mean. I've seen streamers who easily look sit down on the chair and for about five or six hours they will just stream non-stop. For me personally, unless it's like a stream I'm really getting into the groove of or I'm streaming with someone else because I feel as if streaming with someone else takes the kind of burden off a little bit but if you're streaming on your own for six or I think 12 hours
00:45:10
Speaker
was the most I ever done and I've done that once, never again. It was good because I managed to split it up but I can't imagine having that mindset where although I do try to put a lot of work into like streams and broadcast and things, it can consume your life.
00:45:26
Speaker
you know. It's something I think that, and again, like people will be sick of me saying this, but I always bring up the idea of the grind culture which comes along with that. Have you seen those people that they'll come up with like bare bones, like twitch tips, and they'll be like, oh this is how you grow your stream? But at the end of the day, if you know there's two people who are polar opposites, you know, like if I try to adopt your tactics, or not tactics like that sounds,
00:45:52
Speaker
of your schemes. If I tried to adopt the way you stream onto my stream, people would just get confused and you're right, it would just come across as being disingenuous and then I would have died my hair pink for nothing.
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can't imagine going on to Twitch and not being myself, you know? I don't know. I feel as if people put too much of the idea in, especially for things like YouTubers as well, but that's a whole other thing.
Streaming vs. Acting: Avoiding Burnout
00:46:21
Speaker
I think a big part of what's made my mindset towards streaming the way it is, is I think that streaming is the modern day acting. Yeah. And I think that I never really had aspirations of making it as an actor despite training in it.
00:46:37
Speaker
I more was doing it to become a more well-rounded individual and build up a skill set and I did it also because I enjoyed it and I've seen people who have lost themselves to wanting to be an actor and they're hungry and they're not happy and the win that they might get every couple of months does maybe not outweigh the downsides that they feel every day.
00:47:04
Speaker
And if they want to continue down that road and see acting as being a full-time profession, maybe one day it will work out. But I think that it is a scary thing to make something that is a hobby into a make-or-break career.
00:47:21
Speaker
because when you are forced to choose between eating and doing what you want, you're going to end up hating what you like doing because you're going to be hungry while you do it. And no longer becomes a hobby then, does it? It just becomes something you're stuck with doing because you're still dependent on getting paid for. And then once something becomes a job, it is more than just your recreation. It is your self-worth.
00:47:49
Speaker
It is your social life. It is everything. And I think that's a scary thing to make the jump to. And I think that is a big part about why I don't see myself as a quote unquote streamer. I don't see myself as bleeding purple. I just see myself as a dude that hits go live and is a little bit eccentric and kind of just follows artistic impulses.
00:48:12
Speaker
it's just it's weird to think of like you know all the people who do it full time and you know their lives are constantly scrutinised you know like their actions online they are every move or we've seen them in Anasta
00:48:27
Speaker
But personally, I mean, that's kind of partly why I don't do face streams. Like, I think the closest I've ever done is, you know, like the re-tubing stuff, purely because I feel as if if something was to go wrong, like if I didn't want to do it anymore or I no longer had, you know, the capability to do it or anything, then I could just set it aside. And you know, that way it's like locking away your persona in a box and just being like, OK, this is
00:48:55
Speaker
satsanami and when you come on it's like oh it's satsu or whatever monika or anybody uses online it's like the bat monika versus who you are in real life because like you know i'm saying i'm a shy person and i say this in every like episode i'm like
00:49:09
Speaker
I'm shy, I'm introverted, I don't like answering the phone and things, but you wouldn't get that impression maybe. Like I'm very soft spoken, as you can tell. But I'm not like someone who would like actively, you know, go on stream and be like, what's up, guys? Whoo! Because, you know, unless like I did it as a kind of joke, it wouldn't be me, if that makes sense. Even me projecting, because even though we put ourselves out, I think more because you as well, you are putting yourself out there and
00:49:39
Speaker
like what you do with your streams is fantastic but
Vtubing and Accessibility
00:49:42
Speaker
if you try to put on like you know kind of half you half your streaming persona your like real self is always gonna like seep through that as well at moments yeah i think some people hide it better than others
00:49:54
Speaker
So when I talk about being anxious and shy, people are like, what, really? And I think that at least how I approach it is I don't want to build up a stream persona. I want to just be myself on stream and I think that's what I try to endeavor to do. But I can totally see it the other way where you want to have these
00:50:16
Speaker
two boxes and you can choose your own adventure which box gets opened today. Because I know for a joke you did dabble in the vtubing sphere for a while. Have you been exposed to that side of Twitter yet? Yeah I've got a lot of vtube friends and for the most part I appreciate a lot what vtubers do. I think that branding wise they are for the most part very very smart. I think networking wise with the whole agency thing I don't fully understand it.
00:50:46
Speaker
just because I'm not a part of that world but I think that it's an important place in the online sphere and I think there are things to pull from Vtubers, some things that you can definitely pull inspiration from and whether you see that or not in my content, it is there and it has inspired me a little bit. I think that Vtubing as a whole is incredibly important.
00:51:13
Speaker
Because go back 10 years ago, the technology to go live was, you know, you had to have this very specific set up and you had to have X split and X split barely worked and you couldn't have all these overlays.
00:51:29
Speaker
The barrier of entry is getting lower and lower and lower. And I think that the tubing has lowered the barrier of entry again, even though getting a model is very difficult and expensive. If the thing that is stopping you is anxiety, the tubing has taken that away, at least a little bit. And I think that can only be a good thing. I think the barrier of entry being as low as possible can only be a good thing.
00:51:55
Speaker
it definitely I mean for me as well being someone who doesn't show their face on stream I feel as if it's like quite a good way to express yourself on streams but see at the same time I don't know how much personally for me I would identify as like a even though it's in my bio you know I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot here but like
00:52:16
Speaker
you see a lot of people, same with a lot of streamers as well, they take on the same kind of identity of setting up this kind of lore for themselves, if that makes sense, whether it's the character they play, whether it's the stories they want to tell, and I think whether it's the top streamer or the top V-tuber who's doing all these fantastic things and you're starting out again,
00:52:40
Speaker
to quote Drake, the voice of a river age, starting from the bottom, you know, and looking up and being like, wow, it's so intimidating. But what would you say to, and again, I always use the example of Little Timmy, the aspiring Twitch streamer, but what would you say to like anybody wanting to start streaming? Start streaming by watching content you like, but also content you don't like.
00:53:08
Speaker
and learn more from content you don't like. Because, like put it this way, when Led Zeppelin or Nightwish made their albums, they weren't listening to rock music. They were listening to like symphonics and classical stuff and pulling in those influences. And I think that's the way to make a unique identity.
00:53:34
Speaker
i think that let's say if i only watch streamers that i liked i would just be taking the parts of them that i liked which would probably be most of them and regurgitating them whereas if i can watch a streamer that i don't necessarily resonate with but be like you know what they do this well and then i can pull that in and then i can pull you know x y and z from
00:53:57
Speaker
this person, ABC from this person, then I'm getting the full spectrum of things you can pull into a stream. And I think that is the way to go any artistic endeavor. And that's what I treat this as, I treat it as an art. And I think whether you're making music, whether you're doing drawings, whether you're making clay or streaming, go for a variety of influences and specifically ones where you don't like the result.
00:54:26
Speaker
but you can find things that you do respect. And I mean at the end of the day kind of just like turning it back on you, it is all about evolution I suppose isn't it? Mm-hmm yeah and put it this way, you've got Ludwig who is like the number one streamer when you think about mainstream exposure and kind of pushing streaming forward.
00:54:48
Speaker
His favourite streamer, he's said it many a time, is someone who is way smaller than him. You see that in pretty much every field. If you go to the top of music, your favourite genre of music, ask them who their favourite artist is. You've probably never heard of their favourite artist, but they have become a master of that field, they know everything about it, and they've found the things that resonate with them the most.
00:55:12
Speaker
So yeah, you know, if I had to boil down my seven minute rant into one sentence, it is probably listen more than you speak. Just have your ear to the ground and pick up more things than you're putting out. At the end of the day, if you aren't changing.
00:55:29
Speaker
and getting better or rather getting better probably you know the best way to describe it is like feeling comfortable I would say with what you're becoming rather than becoming something else so you're completely right as yeah so in other words less listening I'll do the seven minutes again I'll do the seven minutes again if you're not picked it up
00:55:52
Speaker
Honestly, if you listen to some of the past episodes, I said this, I think I said Sonic belong to the Nintendo Mega Drive, so you know what? You're gonna have to edit that around that while you're like, Sonic belong to the Sega Mega Drive. Oh no, I left it in because I thought, no, no, my shame.
Video Editing and Streamer Responsibility
00:56:11
Speaker
I must learn from my mistakes. You've got more pride than me because I would have edited that in the most perfect way possible, I'd be like,
00:56:20
Speaker
this cast to be imperceptible. I have to be perfect in this. Oh speaking of editing by the way, how are you getting on with the editing game? Because I know you've had like a lot of videos and like YouTube and things and like from your streams and A they're absolutely fantastically done but yeah how are you getting on with that? It is bizarre how much that's become a thing.
00:56:42
Speaker
because I'm editing for a Twitch ambassador right now who, yeah, he averages around 1000 viewers per stream. That's just an example of like how big he is, you know, top 1000 streamer, easy. And he is the head of a team of at one point like six editors. I was the most junior editor on that team. I'm still on equal footing.
00:57:08
Speaker
to them it has just become such a thing so quickly and I think a big part of that is I pick up things pretty quickly and like I say I listen more than I speak so I have really refined my art and a big part of that is just like imposter syndrome when you are on equal footing to people who have done it like three or four times longer than you you kind of want to improve your game pretty quickly because otherwise you get in your head like I'm gonna be exposed they're gonna figure me out
00:57:38
Speaker
So yeah, it's become a thing very, very quickly to a point where I consider myself to be a video editor more than anything else right now. And my, my official title for him and what I do for, for other streamers is social media editor and live stream producer. And that last title is my favorite because when you say producer to someone, they actually have a grasp as to what that is.
00:58:07
Speaker
And it is a hell of a responsibility. And one of the things that I think people can maybe undervalue or forget about is there's like a responsibility to taking someone's attention. Whether someone is in your stream for like five minutes or four hours, boil that down to minimum wage.
00:58:29
Speaker
And they are essentially giving you money in a non-fungible way. They are giving you attention. And that's a responsibility because they could be hanging out with their family. They could be hanging out with their partner, with friends. They could be refining a skill. And I think there's a responsibility to having someone's attention, to having an audience. And that responsibility is to use the power that you have.
00:58:56
Speaker
very, very carefully to make sure that you're putting out good values that you can believe in. And also that the content is as good as it can be, because let's say someone is watching you for three hours, three times a week for a year, that really adds up. And when you boil it down to that, you're a big part of someone's life. And I think with that, you've got to make sure that they're not going to regret that.
00:59:24
Speaker
I mean, responsibility is definitely a huge thing, especially, yeah, as you said, if OIs are going to be either on you or the work you're producing. It is really, I don't want to say daunting because now I'm putting pressure on you to be like, wow, it's daunting, isn't it? And you're like, oh, shut up. Genuinely, genuinely, when I used to work at the escape room, that was something that the owner of the escape room said, people are coming for their birthday.
00:59:52
Speaker
They're coming for their stag do, their hen do. This is going to be something that they remember potentially for the rest of their life and it needs to be good because that's a big thing to regret. If you had like a really bad experience at your stag do and then you get married and that marriage hopefully lasts until the natural end, that's a big commitment that you've taken. That's a big thing that you've affected.
01:00:22
Speaker
And I think that is something that I do take very, very seriously for as much as I, you know, dick around and tell like poop and fart jokes. At the end of the day, that responsibility when you're taking up someone's time, I do take deadly seriously. Usually whenever I stream, I am always like really happy when people pop in or even when they listen to the podcast, like this one, wink to the lovely listeners at home.
01:00:47
Speaker
but it's the fact that they are dedicating their time and, you know, their focus on what you have to say, what you've created, whether it's something like this, whether it's, you know, like a shitpost online, whether it's a video that has been published to YouTube, you know, whatever, it's like you, I completely agree, it's like you want to make it worth their time. And I mean, in a kind of like real world example, even for things in the job that I do, I've
01:01:16
Speaker
got responsibility for certain things, some of which has been through like de facto means because you know like somebody's left and then they're like sad to you taking up the mantle of responsibility and I'm like I am not qualified thinking I'm still like the same early 20 something, well early 20 something I should reiterate. I'm closer to 30 than I'm 20 these days. In fact this year will be the big three also. There you go. A happy early birthday. Right thank you.
01:01:45
Speaker
I feel old already. I keep joking about it but you know that way it's like one day it's not going to be a joke.
01:01:51
Speaker
It's going to be like the reality. And you're like, oh, you realize you're the only one laughing. Yeah. It's like, why aren't you guys laughing? Why are you looking at my gray beard and my wizard robes? Yeah. Even though I don't have a face camera or anything, I don't wear wizard robes to these interviews. I mean, you know, you could have just built up the illusion like a wizard would. Or do I? Yeah. I'm going to just have to hastily Photoshop. The other thing is, you know, you're taking up someone's time
01:02:21
Speaker
You don't know where they are in life. So let's say someone comes into my stream and they're my age.
Influence on Younger Audiences
01:02:28
Speaker
That is potentially less responsibility, but if someone is younger.
01:02:33
Speaker
you know, you don't know about the situation, who their role models are, and the type of person, because they are still malleable at that age, who you're essentially churning out, you know? So yeah, there's a responsibility to it. Because I mean, those are the kind of formative years of, like, whether Twitch likes to accept that kids under 13 or even, you know, 13 to 18 go on their site or not, or whether they like to turn a blind eye,
01:03:01
Speaker
you know at the end of the day there are going to be people whose like first experiences and first exposure to twitch and things or just any social media in general might be to as you said you know like the content you're putting out and things like that ends
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, it is quite challenging, not to get too personal into it, but have you ever had a moment in the stream where people do try to, I don't want to say overshare, but just try to talk about their day and feel comfortable enough to vent in your stream?
01:03:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's something that I try to cut off pretty quickly just because I don't think that it is necessarily a great thing if the person who you're asking advice for doesn't have the complete context. Because no matter how much information you give, you're not going to give the full context and you're only going to give your skewed perspective of a situation.
01:04:00
Speaker
So generally, if someone is oversharing or, you know, to use the common phrase trauma dumping, I generally will just give resources and, you know, tell a story of a similar experience that I can kind of relate to, but in the, just reiterate that it is just my opinion and the other day this is entertainment.
01:04:26
Speaker
There have been people that I've seen kind of like mature through watching my stream and at one point they were potentially a little bit problematic and they've come around and I think that's a great thing. And to put that into my own story, for the last 10 years or something I've been watching a streamer called Northern Lion. I see myself like slowly becoming him.
01:04:53
Speaker
And the fact that I have taken up mannerisms of him and I'm closer to him than I would otherwise have been had I not watched him, I can see myself doing to others. And I think that is a scary thing, something you have to be aware of and not something you have to change your behaviour to suit, but it is something to be aware of.
01:05:15
Speaker
In one of the previous interviews I did with another streamer called Wisteria Moth, we talked about the idea of setting boundaries in your stream because I actually remember, and I don't know if you remember this stream, it was one of yours absolutely ages ago, but it was a guy who came into your stream talking about parasocial relationships. Oh yeah, that was when I was playing Undertale, I remember that.
01:05:40
Speaker
And he was just getting very, like initially to give context, it seemed as if he was very just intense, wasn't it? I'd say that he had a viewpoint and he wanted to either have it validated or combated. And I think that firstly, the dude never came back.
01:05:58
Speaker
and that wasn't due to like me kicking him out it was mostly just because he had a viewpoint and he might not have got a reaction he wanted or he might have got a reaction he wanted and was like okay that's me done because i have to admit you did handle it really well because i think initially from what i remember you'd said something to him and then you just said like
01:06:20
Speaker
listen I'm just here to play games kind of thing to have a good time and you don't completely defuse it really well yeah I think what what I said and this this was maybe like the third game I ever played on stream actually I remember it was Undertale which means I was farming for affiliate because the only reason I'd play that game was because people liked RP as the characters and will give you follows and then you needed to hit that magic 50 to get affiliate so yeah this is pre affiliate
01:06:49
Speaker
And I've just said that people come to a website for different reasons and whether they get their needs met or not, as long as it's done in a healthy way, that's kind of at the behest of the individual.
01:07:05
Speaker
and I can't really stop people from building an unhealthy relationship. I can try and I can set boundaries at the end of the day. I'm here to have fun and that was kind of the attitude I took towards it.
01:07:20
Speaker
don't think I was as eloquent as I was right there but that's just because I think as a streamer I've become a lot more eloquent over the years and I've realized that words have power and if you aren't very specific in your wording people will kind of pull it to pieces or you yourself will like play that back when you're in the shower and you're like oh no why did I say that word why did I use the word be
01:07:45
Speaker
It is true though, especially obviously with the VODs and things like that, when you're listening back to how you could have handled a situation and I think as well, although you say you weren't eloquent like from what I remember of it, I thought it was handled really well because it's quite jarring, see, when you're live, you know, and I remember and obviously not to that extent, but I remember there was a guy who came into my stream and they were like, oh, I'm having a bad day and everything. I was like, oh, what's up?
01:08:13
Speaker
don't worry I don't deal with everyone like that. It's like I'm having a bad day blah blah blah. There was this guy who was like oh I'm having a bad day because you unfollowed me or something. Now whether I had unfollowed him or not I genuinely couldn't remember but it just is like those kind of moments that obviously comes with the risk of streaming but it's that kind of moment where you're like okay how do I handle this digesting
01:08:38
Speaker
ignore it. I ask my mods to like silently take them out the back and throw them out. Old yellow. Yeah, think of the rabbits. To quote Mice and Met. Yo, I haven't quoted that in stream for ages, so thank you for GCRC English coming back to you. Exactly.
01:08:55
Speaker
Oh those days which I definitely don't miss. Yeah it is, it's like getting put in an awkward spot and really trying to figure out a way to get by that and I think the only way you can figure that out really is just to grow as a
Handling Challenges and Learning from Streaming
01:09:08
Speaker
streamer. Yeah it's one of those things where I've seen people who are bigger than me handle it better and I've seen people who are bigger than me handle it worse
01:09:18
Speaker
and it's just about who you are as a person. I think that there are people who are built to handle that type thing better than others in the same way there are people who are better at dealing with drunk people at the bar. There are people who are better at dealing with people in a charity shop who want to buy a trinket for 70p and then get the money back. I think that there's just like the right person for the right situation and I think that
01:09:46
Speaker
You know, some days you'll shine, some situations you'll shine in, and some situations you won't. And it's about knowing when to expose your weaknesses and when to kind of like hide them away. Because there's been situations where I've not necessarily handled an odd situation well on stream. And then I've gone back and be like, okay, so if that happened again, what would I change about that? And eventually I'm going to be as close to bulletproof as possible.
01:10:15
Speaker
Hopefully. Honestly, that's really all you can ask for. Just trying to be the best version of yourself. And again, I know I keep repeating it, but it's just trying to evolve into that person that you want to be and how you're going to present yourself to the rest of the world. And see, in all honesty, I think that's a great viewpoint to have.
01:10:36
Speaker
I think so transferable as well. Like if, if you can handle social situations, well, you will be more adept at handling the conversations in chat. If you maybe struggle a little bit, you might struggle a little bit with chat, but as you get better in one avenue, you'll get better than the others. So either way, whether you stream for a week, a month yet.
01:11:01
Speaker
10 years. It was almost a Friends theme song. But I was just about to clap there. You are a better person for having exposure, weakness, and gone back and reflecting upon that afterwards. And honestly, I don't think we can end on a better note, can we? No, I think that's
01:11:25
Speaker
I mean, looking at the notes that you sent me beforehand, I was like, we have ticked off maybe two of these. But I think that that is a nice way of wrapping it up. Nope, that is perfectly fine. As I said.
01:11:38
Speaker
casual tip chat rather than an interrogation, so we're all good. Like I said, I don't thrive well in interviews just because I'm too conversational and I like to turn it around a little bit, you know? Well, if it was all interview questions, I feel as if these type of episodes would be so boring to listen back to. It would be like, so what do you think of Twitch? Good. End of episode. That was a two minutes speed run.
01:12:08
Speaker
It was just, you know, hit the theme song, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo, and then credit throw. Just the Seinfeld music bladed. Yeah. Oh gosh, definitely. If I wouldn't yet, if I didn't get copyright striked by the Seinfeld then maybe, maybe I would risk it, but maybe I'll have to just like get you in.
01:12:25
Speaker
with your bulletproof no fear of copyright. It's just like, I'll play it to you. I have it on Good Authority Seinfeld theme, okay. Kirby Enthusiasm theme, not okay. I've learned from my mistakes. Kirby Enthusiasm theme, does get hit. It does, yeah. I've even been hit. That and Roundabout, have you been hit by that? I don't think I've played Roundabout.
01:12:47
Speaker
I think I played a tiny section of it and it was fine but I played like one or two seconds extra of it and it got absolutely slammed by YouTube and I'm like thank you copyright, very cool. I actually did ever tell you about my, I think it was like a Among Us stream, it was like one of the vods that I ported over or like exported over to YouTube and it got copyright struck not because there was no music in it or anything, it was all like the music, it was just someone that was like going around
01:13:16
Speaker
Among Us, the joys of YouTube. And anecdotally, you hear that very, very commonly, especially if you have a viral video, because people will be like, I want a bit of that ad revenue. Is that for me? And then they'll just strike you down for nothing, really.
01:13:32
Speaker
I mean just wait though Naff because you'll be so popular that you'll get your own like knockoff Facebook channel where it's like they've got your video on like a white backdrop and just like unrelated text. This is me when laughing emoji, laughing emoji, arrow pointing down. My favourite one of those it's always a it's like a Chinese Facebook page
01:13:56
Speaker
And firstly, that is a paradox in itself. Oh, of course. It'll be a Chinese Facebook page that posts film clips and every single one is set to a ragtime cover of a queen song. We will rock you. Yep. Yes. Yeah. I've seen them. Yeah. They are really, really common. And to be fair, every time one comes up, I will watch it all the way through.
01:14:21
Speaker
I have to admit, I have a morbid fascination with myself. I'm just feeding the algorithm, but it works. It's like, I have no idea what's going on. But then you go to the next one and it's like the title something like, man gets upset when boy betrays him. And it's like, I mean, with a title like that, you just gotta watch until the end.
01:14:40
Speaker
I remember one in particular and it was the Justin Timberlake movie In Time. Oh yeah. And the caption was, time equals money. And then you just hear it like, we will, we will, with the ragtime piano in the background. And it's like, this is the worst content I've seen in my life, but I'm going to watch it to a compilation.
01:14:59
Speaker
Do you know, I think that's the only time I have ever heard that cover, so I have never heard it outside that context. So the secret is you go on YouTube, you find that exact cover and all the comments are like, you've come from that as Chinese Facebook page, haven't you? Every single comment will be like, it's on every film clip. I don't know why, but it's there. It's like you've met with a terrible fate haven't you?
01:15:24
Speaker
Yes, I have. And on that note, as I go to look that up on YouTube and earn a bit of extra money, I will be Dadja Hawing across the internet for that. Jokes aside, thank you so much Naft for coming on this episode. It's been a pleasure, it's been a pleasure.
01:15:39
Speaker
Thank you. And yeah, before we actually finish up, where can these lovely listeners at home find your content? So I've go by NAF, but the full name is NAFGains, that is N-A-F-F-G-A-I-N-E-S on pretty much everything. You can find me on Twitter, Twitch, TikTok and Instagram.
01:15:58
Speaker
Probably, if you want to get the good, the bad and the ugly, that will be on Twitter. We get a little bit of DGN, we get a little bit wholesome there, and that will be the central hope to anything else you can imagine. You're looking at probably on average three streams a week, looking at potentially doing a little bit more of the month of March. We've got Monkey Ball, we've got Super Mario 64 speedruns, we've got, and I've not even told people in my Discord this, but Hitman 3 coming up.
01:16:27
Speaker
so it's gonna be a good time so so please come on by and you know use promo code SATSU when you join the chat and i will fist bump my camera i feel so sorry for your camera oh your future camera
01:16:41
Speaker
It's like, it's okay, I needed a new one. Are you single-handedly going to get me the partner push? You're like, I'm going to push so much traffic to you. I'm going to get you to punch a camera so much if it kills me. You're just going to pull up and chat and be like, want to be famous by the followers and views at Xbitly website.
01:17:01
Speaker
Is it not? What was the company that had bots in people's chats? It was like McDonald's, wasn't it? McDonald's, yes, but I think the amount of bots that actually were bots is a little bit overstated. I think the McDonald's bot probably ran for like two weeks and then people got the copy pasta and then started pretending to be bots and spitting it out.
01:17:26
Speaker
Like I think the people were just so put off by the absurdity of McDonald's advertising via bot on Twitch chats. People just ran with the copy pasta. I don't think that it actually ran because like people still get the McDonald's stuff today. I don't think it's a bot most of the time now. That would honestly make like such a good like expose documentaries.
01:17:48
Speaker
As a devote, as a demand, we might never know. You do it like a true crime thing where you zoom in on the message and then the colours invert and it's like, you know, it was just a normal message. Until...
01:18:02
Speaker
completely off topic, but do you have the number for Netflix? I do not, unfortunately. I don't know. Damn. One day. I'll probably be looking that up after this. Yeah, just, oh, Netflix, I've got a great idea for a new documentary. I mean, they are filled with true crime stuff, so hopefully they'll take it and actually, you know, return my calls. They need something to fill the space after the tendis windler and genius is finished going through. I haven't seen genius, but I have seen the tendis one, though.
01:18:31
Speaker
I started watching the tinder swindler then I started swiping on tinder at the same time and I was like this is too many things going at the same time this is just asking for for badness so instead of getting rid of tinder I got rid of a tinder swindler
01:18:47
Speaker
It's either me or the PSA. It's like, yep, goodbye PSA. Yeah, it's pretty entertaining though, to be fair. I was having a good time with it. I just felt it was too close to home for my life. Well, yeah, I can totally see why. I was like, hey, I've got that up. Oh.
01:19:05
Speaker
So yeah, when are you going to introduce your very rich new partner that you met on Tinder? Dad, I don't know. She just keeps asking for 30,000 for some reason. Ah, don't worry. I'm sure that's pocket change for her. She just keeps talking about how her enemies were after her. It's really weird, but she's definitely real.
01:19:24
Speaker
I'm sure. Although the thing that was a bit weird with the photo you sent was she had her own watermark on it and Shutterstock Studios or something. Oh yeah, Getty Images. Getty. What's my name? Ah, Getty Flip. What a beautiful name.
01:19:42
Speaker
And on that note, thank you all so so much for listening to this episode. If you want to check out more Chat Tsunami content, you can check out the podcast on Anchor, Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, really any good podcast app. So look for the Red Panda under the name Chat Tsunami. And as always, thank you all so so much for listening. Stay safe. Stay awesome. Stay hydrated. And most importantly, be careful in Tinder. Just be careful. Bye, guys. Bye.