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Predetermined: A Pro Wrestling Hangout- Bonus Episode- Elimination Chamber Reactions
65 Plays8 years ago
In this bonus episode Derrick and Garrett share their reactions to the Elimination Chamber pay per view and talk about where this leaves us leading into Wrestlemania!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to Predetermined, a pro-wrestling hangout. We are taking you into bonus zone, territory, bonus zone? Is that what I'm saying now? I think it might be a dark match. It's definitely a bonus episode. We're gonna talk to you about Elimination
Metaphors and Wrestling Overtime
00:00:12
Speaker
Chamber. I'm your host, Garrett Callender. With me, as always, the man who not only believes that the Beach Boys were lying when they say that they were true to their school, he doesn't believe they were ever true to their school at all.
00:00:24
Speaker
Derek, I don't have a lot to say about the Beach Boys, and this is a weird way to start the episode, but since we're entering the bonus zone, I'm trying to think of what the pro wrestling equivalent of overtime is, and I guess that'd be like what, restarting the match? Yeah, we'll just restart the match. I think last time maybe we called it a dark match, I don't know.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's a dark match. You're getting a little extra. You're getting a little extra for nothing. You get two episodes this week, guys. Yeah, we're still putting another one out. We just want to talk to you about Elimination Chamber, man. It's gonna be great. Then let's fucking do it. Alright, we'll hit our goddamn music.
00:01:34
Speaker
All right, man, where do you want to begin?
Elimination Chamber Match Discussions
00:01:36
Speaker
Where should we kick this bonus episode off at? I mean, let's start at match one. Let's just go down the lineup of Elimination Chamber, break it down, kind of give our thoughts. This is already, I will have to say though, because a big thing for me is trying not to complain about wrestling, because so many people complain about everything. And we had just come off such a good pay-per-view with the Royal Rumble.
00:02:00
Speaker
Absolutely. This one's gonna be a little harder. I'm gonna try and make it work though. Well let's start off positive and I think that's actually pretty easy to do with this pay-per-view. Where we go from there may be a different story. But the pay-per-view opens with the first ever women's elimination chamber match. And speaking for myself, I actually was really impressed.
00:02:23
Speaker
Oh, I thought it was, these are hard matches to do and to make super interesting sometimes. And I thought they did a fantastic job. Everybody, everybody in the match. Like I have to emphasize everybody had strong moments in this match.
00:02:40
Speaker
Would you say that this match was like the match of the night? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Because without just skipping too far ahead, I mean, the men's had potential to be that. But I think we got more out of the women's elimination chamber match than the men's match.
00:03:00
Speaker
I think it was exciting. I mean, every time they do one of these first ever match types with the women, I think it's going to be interesting to tune in for how exciting it'll be. Hopefully it just becomes the norm where you're excited for it just because you're excited for it. But obviously you're excited because it's the first. And I thought they delivered. I think the theme that I'm going to have with most of the the card that we talk about for this show is that none of the finishes or none of the results really surprised me for the pay-per-view.
00:03:30
Speaker
But I thought the match itself I thought it was really cool because it was obviously the first women's elimination chamber match They really built up who was gonna take the first bump Like who was gonna be the first woman to bump like I remember I think there was what it was Mandy Rose. No, no, no, no, no It was Bailey and they were going back and forth with who was gonna take the first bump off the off the chain and They really built up who was gonna get hurt by the elimination chamber first and I thought that was smart
00:04:01
Speaker
I don't know, there was a lot of cool spots. It was cool to see them kind of climb on top of the pods and do stuff off the top of that. Especially getting to see Mickey James fly off the top of one of those. Yeah, no, I mean, everyone- I was not expecting that. As far as, you know, not, you were saying, and you are correct, like, this pay-per-view was not really filled with any surprises. This was just a very straightforward, like, by the numbers, we kind of knew what was going to happen pay-per-view.
00:04:26
Speaker
But we still got moments like Mickie James, you know, taking a dive that I was not expecting to see from her. Yeah, there was a lot of climb. I mean, it was like Spider-Man and the Elimination Chamber last night. So a lot of climbing from everybody. Yeah, I know. I mean, we can talk about more of that later on, too. But no, I thought that I thought that like.
00:04:49
Speaker
I thought the way they bookended the pay-per-view with it beginning with a chamber match and ending with a chamber match. I thought that was smart. And I actually thought that having the women go first was actually the right decision. Oh, I agree. When I saw when the pay-per-view was starting and I saw the cage coming down, I was like, oh, shit, we're getting to it. We're doing it right now. Let's let's get it. And then I kind of immediately assumed it was going to be the ladies because the main event of this one was, you know, it's a big deal. It's besides the main event of WrestleMania.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yep. And I thought, you know, the women got to close out the Royal Rumble with the first ever Royal Rumble match for the women. And so I figured it'd be, it'd be crazy if they did it, you know, two paper views in a row like that. They didn't do that. But I thought that giving them the opportunity to, you know, try out the first chamber match. I don't know. I don't know what everyone's expectations were, but I thought that they delivered. And I, I mean, to me, like I said earlier, I think it was match of the night and
00:05:46
Speaker
I mean if like moment of the night to me is that final three sure when you got it down to Sasha Banks Bailey and Alexa Bliss that was that was just such good storytelling between those three
00:06:01
Speaker
I think one of the
WrestleMania Speculations and Booking Decisions
00:06:02
Speaker
subtle things, I don't want to forget this before we move on, if I had to nitpick one thing, which is just nitpicking and it's just not a real complaint, I was waiting to see Sasha or Bailey snap and turn on the other one entirely last night and it didn't happen.
00:06:21
Speaker
Not that that's a bad thing. They still have time to do whatever they want with that. Obviously we kind of understand it's gonna be Alexa Bliss versus Asuka for the Women's Championship at WrestleMania. The Raw Women's Championship. Is that a hundred percent? Seems to be. So I guess I don't know where we're going with Charlotte, because I think we all know the better match is Asuka Charlotte, but I also think that might be giving it away too soon.
00:06:49
Speaker
Possibly. I guess that's true. We're recording this on Monday, so I don't know what's gonna happen on Raw tonight. I guess there's a chance that Asuka could still jump ship. She hasn't technically declared who she's facing yet. That's true.
00:07:02
Speaker
So, I mean, it could be a big surprise this week and who knows, but presumably for right now, it seems like it's Oscar versus Alexa Bliss. And yeah, no, but I mean, I thought that was a cool opening match and also what happened. Just real quick about the chamber itself. I am so happy. I think they changed it for the first time last year or maybe two years ago where they covered up the greats like the steel greats on the outside of the ring with just a ring mat.
00:07:31
Speaker
I never liked that. It doesn't give me any extra pleasure seeing these guys take really hard bumps on steel. I don't know how to feel about that because I've heard a lot of the wrestlers talk about this on podcasts where they said that the hardest matches that they ever did were inside that chamber because of the steel grating. Anytime they would take bumps on the outside, it hurt like hell.
00:07:58
Speaker
and so as a wrestling fan I'm torn between going well yeah but that's the point it looks brutal and then empathizing with the fact that they're like ripping each other up over this so as far as aesthetically I think that the new chamber looks
00:08:13
Speaker
more modern and cleaned up. And a lot of it I like. I like how the pods are shaped now. I kind of, bless you. Thank you. I
Alexa Bliss's Promo Review
00:08:25
Speaker
don't know how I felt about all the LED lighting. It's a little weird. I guess like my main concern with the chamber, like I get it. Like it looks brutal when they're getting slammed on those grates. But it's also, you're having this shit like a month and a half before WrestleMania.
00:08:42
Speaker
And then that's a whole discussion to have, which is that should they be putting everyone in that much danger a month before WrestleMania season is wrapping up. Well, it's a thing where, as a fan, you're like, well, I want to see this match. But as a ticket holder to WrestleMania, you're like, don't get hurt. You don't want it to be WrestleMania 32 where everybody's fucking hurt. And it was just kind of a not the best WrestleMania.
00:09:09
Speaker
Nope. And then we'll talk about more of that later. But, uh, yeah, no, I mean, it seems like the chamber's a lot safer now. Um, there's been some aesthetic changes to it over the last couple of years. So, um, and before we completely move on to the next match, that Alexa Bliss promo at the end of the match. Oh, she fucking got everybody. That was pretty awesome.
00:09:31
Speaker
So Alexa Bliss is in tears talking about how she achieved her dreams and nobody believed she could win the match because obviously Alexa Bliss is five feet of fury she's the smallest lady in the ring goes in the champ crying just in tears everybody's behind her and then she said
00:09:47
Speaker
And none of you will ever achieve your dreams. Yeah. No, that was a good turn. She I mean, because I was sitting there like watching it going, what the fuck is this? I'm supposed to hate this girl's guts. And I understand they're making history. And then she fucking. Oh, she got you. She's the best. She is just she is such a good heel in a, you know, going back a little bitch, going back to total divas.
00:10:12
Speaker
a pleasant person on Total Divas, has a pet pig, best friends with Nia Jax, love it. Watch that Total Divas, I'm telling ya. Garrett's gonna plug Total Divas the entire length that we do this podcast. I mean, eventually we're probably gonna have to do an audio commentary on one of them.
Tag Team Match and Humorous Moments
00:10:28
Speaker
You can keep dreaming, buddy. Hey, I can make it happen, I think. Yeah, I think you can. I can probably make a bet that you lose and that ends up being your punishment.
00:10:38
Speaker
move on to the next match next match tag team match right yeah that was that was Titus worldwide versus the bar wasn't this match just basically everything we thought it was gonna be I thought Titus worldwide was going to WrestleMania so if that's what we both thought then
00:11:00
Speaker
I don't know. To me, this match, I mean, it was pretty, it was what it was. I don't really have anything negative to say. I don't have anything to rave about. I mean, they are the bar and, you know, they kick the shit out of tights worldwide. And Dana Brooke was really out there taking some notes.
00:11:17
Speaker
There was a moment where she screamed, come on Apollo, and then just started jotting something down. And everybody I was watching it with, we all looked at each other and went, what is she writing right now? She screamed, come on. Did she write that down? Yeah, what is she doing? It's just like, what do I got to do to get a peek at that notebook and see what she is actually writing? Maybe she's doing a live transcript of the match. Maybe she's writing down everything that happens. I mean, that very well could be. It's like, what?
00:11:46
Speaker
They got kicked in the head. They're losing. Apollo did a backflip. Didn't work. Landed on the knees. Aren't going to WrestleMania. Titus is going to get his day. Well, here's the thing. As the match went on, I realized I like Seamus and Cesaro have had the tag titles like how many times now? Four or five. It's hard to remember
Asuka vs. Nia Jax Match Analysis
00:12:08
Speaker
because they don't they never have like a reign that's memorable. But I do enjoy when they have it.
00:12:15
Speaker
Right, it's like them getting it back is what works. So as the match went on, I was kind of thinking, well, are they gonna surprise me and give it to Titus Worldwide? Because that would actually give something for them, you know, I mean, I don't know. I mean, Titus Worldwide really hasn't had anything to kind of center around. And I for a moment was like, maybe they'll do it. And then no, that's not what's going on.
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, like you said, it just, no surprises in this one. It's just kind of, yep. It was an okay match. It was a fine match. Like, it was fine. It was fine. It was okay. And so, Seamus and Cesaro retain, and where do we go from there? Let's see, what was next? Like, that's the hard thing to remember about this. Like, okay, it went to Asuka and Nia Jax.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so here's the other thing. I liked this match a lot. And I think maybe one of the things I'll take away from Elimination Chamber 2018 is the women were kind of the stars of this show. Oh, 100%. So I thought this may have been maybe the third best match of the night.
00:13:22
Speaker
I thought the Asuka and Nia Jax actually had really good chemistry. I thought that like... I mean, I don't think anybody actually believed that Nia Jax was going to beat Asuka. Maybe a few people did. But I thought that maintaining that streak was kind of their thing going into Mania. So... Oh yeah, the streak is not something that's going to get broken at Elimination Chamber.
00:13:44
Speaker
Right. I do like her and Nia, though. I feel like it's one of the first opponents she's had that you felt like maybe she could have been a threat. You know, somebody that isn't like a Charlotte or a Becky Lynch.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah, but she's a threat for a different reason. Yeah, it's a different kind of opponent. So yeah, like it just it's a matchup we hadn't seen before from her. And you know, we're just kind of with Asuka. She's going in and just dominating everybody. And I feel like we actually got a match where she had to fight to win kind of, you know. Yeah. Asuka had to be brutal and Nia Jax was just kind of able to toss her around a little bit. And I thought that it put Asuka in a situation she hasn't been in before. So I got more enjoyment out of this match than I thought I was going to.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah, it was so absolutely the best. I mean there are only two singles matches of the night and that was Sure, absolutely the best Right, so I mean I got more out of it than I thought and kudos to the ladies last night Essentially doing the heavy lifting for that show. Oh, yeah, keep keep killing it ladies. We know you will
Broken Matt Hardy and Bray Wyatt Discussion
00:14:49
Speaker
And then what do we got after, is this the broken or woken Matt Hardy versus Bray Wyatt? It is, it is. And something I have noticed about, so I do like broken or woken Matt Hardy. There's just something about that guy though that it is not resonating with like only WWE viewers.
00:15:13
Speaker
I've talked to a lot of people that were not familiar with the stuff they were doing in TNA or impact with the broken universe and it seems like this is a much harder sell than I thought it would be because we all loved what was happening in impact so much with vanguard one you know just like the weird broken universe they had created
00:15:34
Speaker
and I feel like they thrust everybody into it pretty quick just because we all were like everybody knows about this and it turns out they don't and they do seem to kind of hate it.
00:15:44
Speaker
Well, I was gonna ask you, why do you think it's not working? I mean, I have my theories on why it's not working as well, but the match itself was, eh, it was okay. The start of it was pretty cool, but it seemed like the crowd got more interested in the beach ball shit again. I missed the beach ball stuff, did that happen? Oh yeah, there was more beach ball shit during that match, and the crowd was more focused on themselves. I hate that I was there the night the beach ball thing started.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah. That was in Dallas. Again, I'm going to talk a little bit more about this later after we talk about the main event, but it begs the question of there is a percentage of the audience that I don't know what to say other than just their
00:16:28
Speaker
shitty sometimes like i don't know um but the match i mean credit to matt hardy he tried to make the the obnoxiousness and the insanity the crowd he tried to turn that into part of the the match he tried to pretend like he was i think at one point the crowd was doing the wave and he tried to pretend that he was the one moving the crowd with his hands which is actually perfect for him
00:16:51
Speaker
Right, no, it makes, yeah, it makes sense for his gimmick, and I, again, credit, I don't think it did anything to save it, but... Yeah, and it was just, the problem with that match is it was just kind of the throwaway match that we've already seen several times. Yeah. It was just, it was absolutely a filler match. Sure. I mean, you know, good job on both guys' part, it just wasn't anything interesting. It wasn't like pay-per-view quality.
00:17:19
Speaker
Do you think this has something to do with gimmicks like that? Or are people bored with Bray Wyatt? Are people bored with the Woken thing? Because I guess to me, I think a lot of people when the Hardys came in at WrestleMania were expecting that gimmick to be there from the beginning and then there were all the legal issues with Impact Wrestling.
00:17:41
Speaker
about, you know, not letting that happen in WWE. And did it just take too long for them to get around to it and now it's old news? Is that part of the issue? Well, I think a part of it too is just like they didn't know how to present it. I feel like we're just kind of thrust into it. But is that how we were, how they did it in Impact? I don't remember how it was actually originally presented.
00:18:03
Speaker
I don't know, some things just have a shelf life, I think. And I think it could work. I think just where we are, like WWE fans weren't ready for Woken Matt Hardy. And I think everybody's getting a little burned out on Bray Wyatt. I think that they do make a good team. I think if something happened with Bray and he gets brought into the Woken universe, that could be something fun and new for him because he needs something.
00:18:29
Speaker
Well, that's that it's there's there's sort of a stigma that people talk about when they talk about pro wrestling. And it's kind of like it's like Dolph Ziggler syndrome, which is that if you feel like a character is like a dead end creatively, I think it sucks the energy out of everything with that program or with that wrestler, which is that does anybody feel like the Woken Matt Hardy Bray Wyatt feud is going to lead to them? Either of those guys doing something interesting with somebody else?
00:18:56
Speaker
And if you don't feel that way, why would you be invested in the match? Or the feud? I guess like where I could see Matt Hardy going is when Jeff comes back. Maybe a program between them. I could even see Matt Hardy if they actually do get this over.
00:19:13
Speaker
with the WWE universe, him being in like an intercontinental realm, like somewhere in there. But you're right, like it is like when I watch somebody go up against Bray Wyatt, all I'm looking at is they don't have anything to do. This is their thing until the next thing.
00:19:28
Speaker
right and it begs the question about last year which is like why did they they put so much time and effort into that feud with Wyatt and having Orton in the Wyatt family and then finally having Orton leave and turn on him and everything
00:19:46
Speaker
They gave him such a short reign with the WWE Championship, but people had been waiting for that for a long time. And this becomes another scenario where Bray Wyatt eats another loss. And I'm not in every scenario gonna bitch about who wins and loses the match. I do think there are times where it does matter who goes over. I don't think last night necessarily fucking mattered, but
00:20:08
Speaker
There's a stigma around Wyatt now where he doesn't win matches. And if you know that a guy who's out there cutting promos is threatening you and talking about how he's the eater of worlds, if he's not actually a threat to anything, why tune in? Like why bother? He's more of just like a fly that's bothering somebody than anything. Correct. Yeah, he's a main event jobber. He's gonna be a guy that you're gonna have to beat him to get to the next level of people.
00:20:38
Speaker
And I said this last night too. You can't make me forget about the fact that it was just a few months ago that he was in a feud with Finn Bowler and they had every intention to put in him an address and having him be Sister Abigail. And then he got sick and they ditched it.
00:20:58
Speaker
But it happened on TV. They were building towards it and then they ended up doing Finn Balor versus AJ Styles. And I think everyone was happier with that. I'm still hoping that we get an actual sister Abigail instead of Bray Wyatt in a dress. I guess we'll fucking see, but yeah, match was whatever.
Ronda Rousey's WWE Debut
00:21:15
Speaker
Whatever. Yeah, got more time than it should have right now on this podcast. Let's move on to the main event.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, what about the Ronda Rousey stuff? Oh, I kind of forgot about that. Honestly, I don't think I feel like people were a lot harsher on it than they need to be.
00:21:32
Speaker
Um, I thought that it started off pretty brutal and I was expecting, like when she came out, the crowd was 50 50 and, and the word has gotten out that one of the reasons they brought round Ronda Rousey in was to get Stephanie McMahon over. Um, which was just mind boggling to me. If it's true, that's, that's really weird. Um, why once again, we have to book an entire angle around an authority figure feeling good about themselves.
00:21:59
Speaker
But isn't it weird though that like this time though at least the authority storyline isn't going along with the world title
00:22:07
Speaker
No, absolutely. And that's that's a positive thing to take away from that, which is that especially you don't want Ronda Rousey coming in if she doesn't have a ton of experience doing this. You don't want her like burying Sasha Banks or Bailey or Charlotte or somebody who actually has a track record and a reputation to maintain and could potentially hurt somebody, too. It makes more sense to put her in a match with, you know, part time TV characters like Triple H and Stephanie.
00:22:32
Speaker
And the rumor is it's supposed to be Rousey and Angle against Triple H and Stephanie at Mania in a tag match, I'm guessing, so... Fuck, at this point I want an intergender match of just Rousey versus Triple H.
00:22:44
Speaker
Well, yeah, somebody mentioned that last night on, I saw passing by on Twitter and I actually think that's the money match. I actually think that would be way more interesting and people would be excited as hell about that. But no, Rousey, you know, she can't really cut like a wicked promo, but she did look in her element about halfway through that segment when it came down to doing the bit, when it came down to doing the act and putting Triple H to the table and looking pissed off.
00:23:12
Speaker
Thought it was gold so I thought it started off pretty brutal and I thought that crowd was gonna eat her alive For her lack of promo skills, and she kind of redeemed herself The thing is though in UFC like a big part of UFC is you know your match is short and only a couple times a year But you're spending like a couple months just traveling cutting promos on each other in front of a crowd and
00:23:36
Speaker
And but a lot of that is trash talking and being tough. And last night she had to come out and just be grateful that she was signing a piece of paper. Yeah. And not a good spot to be in. Yeah. I think like for somebody who is not used to that like she didn't get to come out and just immediately be a badass. She had to come out and just be like thank you so much. This is my dream. I'm signing a piece of paper and it's really exciting.
00:23:59
Speaker
But then, like you said, it was around halfway through, she looked in her element when she had to be badass and stare people down. And that's where you can see the pro wrestler in her. And I think people need to just be a little more patient because she was put in a bad situation, like twice now, where she had to come out and just be nice and excited.
00:24:23
Speaker
Right. No, I think when we see Ronda Rousey, the character, I think she's going to be in a lot better spot. And again, I don't even want to rip on the segment from last night too much because while it did start off me thinking, oh, God, they're hanging her out to dry and making her into this grateful, nice, I'm just happy to be here type person, especially like a WWE crowd will eat you alive if they think you're being like a little bit too much of a pussy. So.
00:24:48
Speaker
You don't want to come across as a suck-up. And it ends with her putting Triple H through a goddamn table. It worked. And I know the whole room I was in popped. Yeah. Like everybody was excited to see her lift him in the air, you know? Like, she's fucking awesome. She's Ronda Rousey. They liked it a couple years ago too, so.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like, I'm still remaining really hopeful on her, because some video came out of her training with Shayna Baszler, and there was a moment where, like, Shayna had her in a corner, and then she popped up and rolled over Shayna from the top rope into an armbar. And it looked really fluid and just really good, and she's gonna be fine. Like, I really think that she's a talented enough athlete that she will get exactly to where she needs to be, and they're obviously going to book her in a way that makes her look good, too.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think she's gonna be fine too. In fact, a lot of what happened last night kind of sold me that she gets how it's supposed to work. So I'm actually not worried about her. I think the thing that's gonna suck for her is that because she's not taking the long path there, because she's not going down to NXT for a year or two, every time she fumbles, people are gonna be on her.
00:25:57
Speaker
And we can sit here and debate whether or not that's justified or not, but I think that's just the way it's gonna be. If she fumbles in a promo, if she, every time she stumbles, since she's on the main roster and she didn't go through the trials and tribulations of going through the NDS or going through NXT, I think they're gonna be on her. But she'll be fine, I'm not worried about her.
Main Event Expectations and Reflections
00:26:15
Speaker
Cause it's also, I mean, yeah, she didn't do all that, but I feel like there is a bit of proving ground in the fact that she's an Olympic medalist, like Kurt Angle. Uh, you know, she's a professional fighter. Like, what probably has a better record than Brock Lesnar, I would imagine.
00:26:33
Speaker
or maybe more fights, I don't know. People are gonna, don't yell at me about this, I don't know. I don't care enough for you to yell at me about this. I think we're on the same page as far as, we just both think that she'll be fine, and it's gonna take some time. So main event time, baby. Yeah, I did that dumb thing where I just remained hopeful.
00:26:57
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I tried. I tried so hard, man. Well, that's good because I have a lot to say after we talk about the main event here. I really like, I don't know. I do this thing where it's like I try and talk so positive about wrestling that occasionally I'll talk myself out of thinking that the thing that's going to happen is going to happen.
00:27:18
Speaker
Yep, and there were moments where I thought that and then by the end you thought Finn bower was gonna pin Roman Reigns didn't you well I mean obviously that's what I wanted because I've been talking about it for weeks
00:27:30
Speaker
Well, but I mean, there was a moment in the match where they built it to make it seem like Finn Balor hit the coup de gras on Reigns and everyone thought for about one and a half seconds that he was going to pin him. And then Braun Strowman kind of dashed those hopes. Here's the thing about the main event. I thought there was a lot in the main event that was good. I think it was actually a pretty good match. It may have been the quality of the match was great, actually.
00:27:53
Speaker
So we're going to go back to what I was talking with you about a week or two ago, which was that you can do everything right. But if you don't stick the finish, you fall short and things are kind of these kind of fall flat. So there was a lot of cool spots in this match. I thought it was so cool that they went that long without having an elimination.
00:28:14
Speaker
I thought that worked really well for them. I thought the spots where Braun Strowman was climbing the cage was fucking horrifying and awesome. I think at one point, uh, cause he had the Ms up there and I think even, uh, Corey Graves, who we didn't mention his hair. Yeah. What's what does he got? What's it like? Cody, Cody Rhodes has a movie role coming up. That's why he's blonde. What's your excuse, Mr. Graves?
00:28:41
Speaker
Corey Graves is trying to change up the appearance. Maybe he's trying to hide from Booker T by having a little bit different appearance. The thing is, you don't have to change much for Book to not notice.
00:28:59
Speaker
So anyway, back to the main event. What did you think? I guess we both feel like match wise it was pretty good. Oh, match wise it was great. Wasn't it Miz got eliminated first? I think it was Miz and then Elias. Which neither of those were a surprise. Elias was in a position where you know he's there because Joe isn't.
00:29:22
Speaker
Like Elias, he's very over, but he also is definitely filling a gap that Samoa Joe is supposed to be in. Yeah, but let's not shit on Elias too much because Elias has been holding his own from an entertainment standpoint for a while now. Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying he's capitalizing very well off of it. Oh, for sure, man. And the only thing that was disappointing was he didn't get to take the guitar into his pod with him. I really thought we were going to get a song from the pod.
00:29:51
Speaker
Uh, that's what I was hoping to, I was hoping we would get Elias narrating the match and sing song from the pod. Uh, oh, sorry. Uh, and I also just want to say like, just move into the next character, Seth Rollins.
00:30:07
Speaker
is starting to impress me more. Like, they did such a good job on Raw, because we didn't actually get to talk about Raw last week, because we had recorded early, since we were together. Sure. God damn, that was such a good Raw, and Rollins put on such a good show. Yeah. They really did a good job of making me care about Seth Rollins, again, and believing that he, making me believe that he's a real threat, that he can actually beat these guys, really showcased how talented he is.
00:30:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's showing me what I didn't necessarily see personally two or three years ago because I thought there was a lot to like about Rollins. I can now see exactly why he's like a main event top guy. He's capable of having really good matches. And how much is this? I mean, it's a tiny little piece of it. Him getting the curb stomp back.
00:31:00
Speaker
as an identity changer. Oh it does wonders I think like because that was such a good finisher like it was a finisher that like the second somebody hit their knees you're like oh shit their face is going into the mat like you know you're right you're ready for it it was a it looks great anyone can take it there's so many positives to having that finisher I totally get why they took it away the first time
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah. But, and I know it again, it's a minor thing, but sometimes I guess in pro wrestling, all it takes is a minor tweak for something to click and him getting his identity back and him being the single star again is going to be, I mean, I guess we're going to see what happens in the next year and going forward. Um, but I have a lot of optimism and I think I'm a Seth Rollins fan. I think so too. Uh, what did, what'd you think of his pants?
00:31:49
Speaker
Fuck I've loved his outfits for the last couple months I would love to see this dude's closet like he just has a drawer of pay-per-view pants where you'll wear a pair of pants You'll never see him again, and he'll be like I don't think the flame pants worked Let's try these red pants like just got a lot of pants
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah, and a lot of Power Ranger outfits too. I would like to know if he's like a big fan of the Power Rangers. Maybe he's not, I bet if you asked he's not even familiar with them. Maybe not. He's gonna tell you, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:32:20
Speaker
So let me, I guess before we, before we stop talking about it, let's talk about all the stuff they did do right. Cause again, we try to be positive. I thought they made Braun Strowman look like a fucking monster. How many finishers did he eat in that match? He kicked out at one on an attitude adjustment.
00:32:37
Speaker
He took multiple spears. Did he take a coup de gras? Oh, he did on the outside. He took a coup de gras. Like, Finn did it, yeah, onto the outside of the ring. He took a curb stomp. He took... That's it, I guess. I guess he didn't take Elias and Mrs.
00:32:57
Speaker
No, but I thought Miz played his part in the match while he was the sniveling heel running away from anything that might hurt him. I thought that Elias casually closing his pod, which is it's an easy spot and they do it every elimination chamber. But having the guy who refused to enter the match, it's always funny. And there was something about Elias doing it because like he's still he's still tough. Like when he came out, he was beating the shit out of people.
00:33:20
Speaker
Right, no, they let him have a big entrance when he did come out. But there was just like, I do like a good like, nah. And the thing is you really believe it when a guy like Stroman is in the match too, where you're just kind of like, yeah, fuck that. Yeah, I'd rather not. I'll wait till later and I'll just see how this plays out for a while. I think that's great psychology there. And every heel in the match should be like, nah, I'd rather not.
00:33:48
Speaker
Going back to these guys, I thought that Balor and Rollins both looked really good. I thought they were kind of the workhorses of the match, honestly. Which I'm actually starting to hear... I read rumors that there might be a Rollins-Balor match at Mania. Yeah, I read that too.
00:34:08
Speaker
Not sure how to feel about that. I mean, I guess I can't complain because I'm sure the match will be great. They've done that before, though. In fact, that's how Balor won the universal title the day, you know, that it was debuted. So I don't know, could match. I don't know how they'll start that feud. I was I was wondering because there had been rumors of Strowman versus Mesut mania. And I guess those rumors are persistent, but they had kind of teased at a
00:34:32
Speaker
baller club you know with baller and the club going up against Miz and the Miztourage and maybe that could have been an intercontinental feud I guess we'll see later tonight where they're going but um no I thought and then really the only disappointment of the guy that really didn't stand out too much was Cena and Cena was there just kind of be star power it looked like
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah, at this point- He hasn't seen us just there to like, his music plays, the crowd gets excited, he comes in, he'll hit his couple moves, and he's gonna eat, he's gonna take a pen, at some point. We've all kind of accepted that's his role in the company, and I respect that that's his role in the company.
Roman Reigns and WrestleMania Main Events
00:35:11
Speaker
He did, when he entered the match, he had that pretty cool stare down with Rollins, and they kind of just shouted back and forth at each other. I don't know exactly what they were saying, but- Now Shinsuke. Now. But I guess the order of elimination was Miz, Elias, Cena. Yes, Cena went out third, so we got left with- Baller, Rollins, Strowman, and Reigns.
00:35:40
Speaker
which when it got there, I was like, all right, maybe I was like, I'm still hopeful. Yeah, I think I knew how this was gonna end. I just, I did not fool myself this year. I was given the gift of Shinsuke Nakamura at the Royal Rumble. And so I just kind of maintained like, we know how this ends. Basically Nakamura winning the Royal Rumble is like, he's like, I'm gonna give him a big spoonful of shut the fuck up.
00:36:10
Speaker
Well, okay, and that's, so again, it comes down to Reigns and Strowman. And like I said, they made Strowman look like a fucking monster, takes a couple of spears, boom, and of course, as everyone was kind of predicting and everyone thought was going to happen, Roman Reigns will be facing Brock Lesnar for the Universal Championship at WrestleMania 34. Which means it'll be my fourth year in a row of traveling a great distance to Boo with Samoan Man.
00:36:37
Speaker
That's fucking nuts, specifically since I got a guy on the podcast who's been going to WrestleMania for four years now, and every one of those has been a Roman Reigns main event. I don't know what WrestleMania's like without booing him. Like I've literally not experienced one. So I wanna break it down from the standpoint of talking about how the match ended, like picking Reigns to win, going with him again, and then I wanna kinda do a retrospective
00:37:04
Speaker
of the last 20 years because I think it's important because there's a lot of people I saw the same sentiment online last night and I know fuck internet wrestling fans is a theme that people like to throw out there but guess what everyone's an internet wrestling fan because chances are you talk about it online the sentiment was if the Reigns Lesnar match is going on last that's a good thing because now I can end my WrestleMania viewing early fuck you not you but the I was reading that too and I don't believe it
00:37:35
Speaker
I believe it. No one that bought a ticket to that event is going to leave that building. Well, here's what I will say. I'm sure some people will. I wasn't referring specifically to that. There's a lot of people who have WrestleMania parties. I have one every year.
00:37:55
Speaker
I know that two years ago when it was Triple H versus Roman Reigns, everyone was kind of ready for that show to be fucking over, and it went late. And last year, it was sort of the same thing with Taker, except at least you had the interesting dynamic of Taker making people want to stick around. Garrett, can you explain to me what is this thing with Roman Reigns?
00:38:18
Speaker
I mean he looks like an action figure I think that's it like I get that like because the thing is I was a Roman Reigns fan remember okay so I get I get the Roman Reigns why they want him to be the guy but I was can you explain to me the phenomenon like why not why haven't they given up at this point
00:38:37
Speaker
Well, it's not even necessarily why have they given up, it's just why are they forcing it? Because it's like, here's the thing. They had trouble selling tickets to the Elimination Chamber. And you can sit there and give me a million different reasons why, but I can tell you that the reason why is because everyone knew how it was going to end. Like you're gonna pay extra to go to a show that you know the outcome of. Right. And I can't, I mean, at this point it just seems stubborn, because it doesn't seem like they have a long-term plan for this guy.
00:39:07
Speaker
The other thing is, isn't it kind of hurting him more than it's helping him by just forcing the issue? Well, why has it taken him this long to get the belt? I don't know. I actually had somebody texting me today and they were saying that they hope that if Reigns gets this that he just has this belt for a really, really long time.
00:39:29
Speaker
because he said that he thinks it's going to be more interesting to see like this unbeatable champ than it is to have to keep watching this guy chase the belt. So I brought this up the other day and this is sort of the larger question. This is this is the big debate these days amongst WWE fans or pro wrestling fans, which is the Roman Reigns debate.
00:39:50
Speaker
what works, what doesn't work, why there's so much booing, why the controversy, and it's really just kind of an extension of the John Cena phenomenon that happened for a long time. I have not been, as a fan, I can't speak for you, I have not been personally excited for a WrestleMania main event since WrestleMania 30. And third, WrestleMania 30 is basically what brought me back. Like it was exciting enough that it brought me back into wrestling fandom.
00:40:18
Speaker
For those who aren't following along, WrestleMania 30 was Daniel Bryan versus Batista versus Randy Orton. Amazing storyline, like just great storytelling leading up to a story, a very underdog story, a small guy versus two bigger guys that nobody wanted to watch.
00:40:35
Speaker
So the reason I'm about to bring up, I did some research coming into this podcast. I know this is supposed to be a review episode, but to me, there's no better time to hash this kind of this discussion out than right now, because this is the film that's been going on for several years. I went back and I pulled up the main events of WrestleMania is from the past 20 years. We don't have to talk about them at length, but I wanted to show you a trend here that that's really happened kind of more often in the last 10 years.
00:41:02
Speaker
WrestleMania 14 is Stone Cold Steve Austin versus HBK. Can you understand why that would be the main event? Yes. Like immediately hearing those two names, you're like, yes, that's a main event. And it was a match that everyone wanted to see. That's kind of the theme I'm gonna go with. WrestleMania 15, the very first Stone Cold Steve Austin versus The Rock match. Everyone gets it. WrestleMania 16, Triple H, The Rock, Mick Foley, Big Show, Fatal 4-Way.
00:41:28
Speaker
Basically, some of the biggest stars of the Attitude Era and Austin was out with injury. That makes sense why that was the main event. And I think people were genuinely excited for it. I'm not sitting here talking about the quality of the match or the pay-per-view delivered, but I'm just talking about hype going into the match where people are excited to see this. I get it, yeah. WrestleMania 17, Rock Austin 2. One of the biggest ever. Right, and it's widely regarded as maybe the best WrestleMania ever. WrestleMania 18, Hogan versus The Rock.
00:41:58
Speaker
that I actually don't remember that that main event but that was the main event that was the main event and it was pretty well they went on they went on last I think right I know now I'm second-guessing myself for some reason in my head it's just hard to picture that as the main event but I'm also picturing Hulk Hogan now
00:42:16
Speaker
Maybe it ended with, I know it was Triple H versus Jericho, but I can't remember if that was the last match or not. But I mean, obviously that was, you get why that was. I get it. Yeah, it makes sense. WrestleMania 19, the WrestleMania main event that year was supposed to be Lesnar versus Angle. Or no, take that back. It was supposed to be Austin versus The Rock, three.
00:42:35
Speaker
And then Austin had a heart attack the day before, a couple days before, and they were worried that he wasn't going to be able to make it through the match, and they didn't want to close the show with it, so they went with Les. They were worried the guy that had a heart attack might not need to be in the ring. That's very kind of them.
00:42:50
Speaker
Right, so they went with Lesnar Angle, and that's the infamous incident where, you know, Lesnar almost broke his neck. WrestleMania 20, you have Benoit versus Triple H versus HBK. Again, a match people wanted to see. And an awesome match. Right, right. And I think people were excited for that one because they were pushing Benoit into a spot that I think a lot of people figured he would never be in. Yeah.
00:43:11
Speaker
WrestleMania 21 was the rise of Batista, so it was Triple H versus Batista. WrestleMania 22, the only WrestleMania I've ever been to here in Chicago, Illinois was John Cena versus Triple H. Now, this is where we take a pause for a good cause, as a former teacher of ours would say. Where Stone Cold says.
00:43:30
Speaker
We're gonna take a pause for a good cause here to talk about the beginning of something very, very interesting. John Cena gets pushed into the main event scene following the last year's WrestleMania, WrestleMania 21. He won the WWE Championship from JBL. He won his first WWE Championship the previous year.
00:43:45
Speaker
By WrestleMania 22, he was the babyface full-time now, and he was playing to the crowd a little bit more, but the crowd had turned on him. And usually, I think the fans had been more accustomed to when they turned on a guy during the Attitude Era, they just went with it, and that guy would turn heel and address the fact that he was being booed by the fans. We know how this kind of ends, because John Cena has remained a babyface since about 2005.
00:44:16
Speaker
Actually, maybe since 2004 now that I'm sitting here thinking about it So it's John Cena versus Triple H at WrestleMania 22 here in Chicago The arena boos the hell out of them says fuck you Cena all sorts of things and this trend kind of continues for a while The next year, but but I go to address WrestleMania 22. It's a match people want to see
00:44:36
Speaker
It's Triple H versus John Cena. Yeah. It makes sense. John Cena versus HBK WrestleMania 23, Edge versus Undertaker, WrestleMania 24, Triple H versus Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25. The very first, uh, well, I guess the second HBK taker match at WrestleMania 26 was the main event. Okay. Wrestle, WrestleMania 27, the Miz versus John Cena. Hell yeah.
00:45:00
Speaker
And the Rock gets involved in the match. Then you have Rock Cena at WrestleMania 28. Not really how you want to see a WrestleMania end. Oh, with them is? Well, what didn't the Rock interfere to win, like help him win?
00:45:14
Speaker
The Miz? Yeah. The Rock interfered to fuck Cena over because he had been attacked by Cena on Raw. The Raw leading up to that mania. So, I don't know how excited people were for Miz, Cena. I think the theme of that show going in was that it was The Rock back. Yeah, The Rock's gonna be there too, so don't worry. It's gonna be all right. Daddy Rock's gonna take care of you.
00:45:38
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that's one of the worst received WrestleMania's ever, by the way. So then you have WrestleMania 28 and 29, both Rock Cena. WrestleMania 30 was what we just talked about, Brian Batista and Orton. The last few years we have had Roman Reigns versus Brock Lesnar, where Rollins cashes in his money in the bank. It was awesome.
00:46:00
Speaker
Triple H versus Roman Reigns, which is one of the most boring, poorly received main events maybe in history. You were there for it. I was there. That was one of the loudest buildings I've ever been in in my whole life, listening to just that rain of booze. And then last year, Undertaker versus Roman Reigns. So the reason I list all this stuff to you is
00:46:26
Speaker
I pose this question to you as my tag team partner in wrestling discussions. Is the main event of WrestleMania not supposed to be the match that everyone wants it to be? Like isn't that supposed to be the thing you're looking forward to most? It definitely used to be.
00:46:44
Speaker
Well, and so my question is what changed? Why is that? And I know again, trying to be positive. This is one that just perplexes me because there seems to be a certain level of being stubborn, um, going on creatively with Roman Reigns. And I got, uh, when you look back at this, he's main evented every WrestleMania the last, this will be four years in a row.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah. Who's the last guy to fucking do that? Well, I mean, you just read through all those, like is who has the most main events of WrestleMania? Well, Austin's been in a few. Triple H has been in a fuck ton. HBK, I guess. I guess Triple H did 20, 21 and 22. Oh, fuck. Cena did 27, 28, 29.
00:47:37
Speaker
So will Roman be the first person to do four in a row? So yeah, so he may very well be the first, I mean, maybe Hogan, now that we have to stop and think about this, Hogan may have done this. Yeah, that could have been. Like without it being in front of me, that seems probable. That seems very probable, and there's probably some wrestling genius right now who's like, you should know this shit, you guys have a podcast, shut the fuck up. That being said, is Roman Reigns on Hulk Hogan's level as far as stardom?
00:48:07
Speaker
And the answer is no. And so the reason you're getting these reactions, and I know everyone's kind of sick of talking about this, but if we're only gonna talk about it once, I might as well do it on a bonus episode. It's just fascinating to me that nobody's looking forward to it. I mean, I'm assuming there's some eight to 10 year old kids who are excited as piss.
00:48:29
Speaker
And I guess a lot to a majority of the demographic that they're targeting is what the purpose of this match is, right? Oh, for sure. I mean, like, we are grown men watching a thing that is being written for children. Right. But are is is that even enough? I don't like here's I don't know. I feel like
00:48:52
Speaker
They are setting a thing that is for kids, but I think they're also like, the kids were going to love Roman. They'll love Roman. But I think that if you get, I think if you put anyone on there and anyone who hears a giant room of people cheering for that person, I feel like they'll kind of just go along with it, won't they? Like, couldn't they learn to like somebody else?
00:49:14
Speaker
Well you would think. And I think Daniel Bryan was actually like a perfect example of this because like I've said this before, it's not like I own a single piece of Daniel Bryan merchandise. I'm not a giant Daniel Bryan. I don't know his career history. I'm not a huge, huge, huge, huge mark for Daniel Bryan. I like the guy.
Influential Figures and Booking Philosophy
00:49:29
Speaker
I had a lot of fun during his rise at WrestleMania 30.
00:49:33
Speaker
But part of the reason it worked is just because it fucking worked and people were all behind him. It wasn't like there was a section of people during that whole thing that were against Daniel Bryan. And why does that dynamic work that way? Is it his fault though that people didn't like Roman from the beginning of his push? It's possible. I think a combination
00:49:59
Speaker
You see, okay, so I was going to mention this earlier because I think at this point we're just going the full hour. Oh yeah, we're 50 minutes in. This is supposed to be a 30 minute bonus episode. It looks like you're just getting two hours this week if you choose. You're getting an Iron Man dark match. So the rumor I hear about WrestleMania 22 was that everyone in the back wanted Rey Mysterio to be world champion, but Vince didn't.
00:50:26
Speaker
And so he was fighting against it. He wasn't gonna have it happen. He wasn't gonna have it happen. And eventually they convinced him because everybody else said, no, you have to do this. Like the Latino demographic that watches SmackDown on the CW doubles. Like the ratings go up significantly when Rey is on TV. So it wasn't just like a being sentimental. It wasn't like a sentimental push just because Eddie had passed away. It made sense from a number standpoint.
00:50:56
Speaker
And so they put the belt on Rey at WrestleMania 22 and then proceed to have him look like shit the next few months as world champion by having him lose. This is why winning and losing does kind of matter for the long term picture. But Vince was able to then take that and go, well, see, he's not over. Look, he's not over. It didn't work. I was right.
00:51:18
Speaker
And so you could make the argument that when Bryan won the title at WrestleMania 30, which by all accounts was not the original plan, which was by all accounts not how they wanted things to happen. They wanted Daniel Bryan and something else and they wanted to have Randy Orton versus Batista in the main event.
00:51:39
Speaker
And they didn't get that. Well, they put the belt on Brian, and next thing you know, boom, Brian gets injured like a month later. And has... You gotta remember, he did get that one match, he did get to defend that title one time against Kane in a match where he got to drive a forklift. Don't forget it! Don't ever forget it! Any time you get to drive a forklift in a wrestling match, it's something memorable.
00:52:05
Speaker
Mankind got to do it. Mankind got to do, I think Baron Corbin got to do one to Dean Ambrose at some point. Did he really? Fucking A. Well didn't like, I feel like Dean Ambrose or Baron Corbin got penned with a forklift at some point.
00:52:18
Speaker
I know The Rock did by mankind during halftime heat. Oh, the empty arena match. Yeah. So Daniel Bryan gets hurt. Do you think Vince looks at that and goes, see, once again, I was right. We shouldn't do this. So anytime the fans and everyone else gets behind something, if there's an injury that happens or if he decides to fuck around with their push and it doesn't play out the way that everyone wanted it to, he turns around and goes, see, I was right.
00:52:44
Speaker
I think there's this weird thing where we think that this old man that runs a company that we all like is fighting with us. And I don't think any of us know why we're all fighting. Well, so and I guess the thing to ask here is, do we know for certain that Reigns and Lesnar is going to close the show?
00:53:05
Speaker
I think it's safe to say, like I mean when you look at those two main events, you know one is going to be a better match than the other, but you know they're going to make one of those matches feel bigger than the other. I don't know, I guess we don't know that for certain. I mean because it's kind of random when they decide to have the Royal Rumble winner be in the main event when they don't.
00:53:25
Speaker
To me, personally, I think the WWE Championship means more than the Universal Championship at this point. But I agree. I think he'll also look at it as a TNA guy and a New Japan guy in the main event of his show where that doesn't work for him and he's gonna have his homegrown guy.
00:53:46
Speaker
I don't understand the thinking of, again, we're just bitching about the same shit with Reigns that people have been bitching about for a few years now, but it's interesting to me that, to me, the ending of your show is supposed to be a feel-good moment, right?
00:54:03
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's supposed to be me walking away being like, God damn, that was a good day. Right. And I guess you could argue that they did that at WrestleMania 31 with Rollins cashing in. And that was a heel winning. And the heel winning was still the feel good moment in that.
00:54:21
Speaker
Right. The heel winning, but it was also a cash-in that everybody saw coming. So it wasn't really like a surprise. The thing is, when the music hit, that crowd popped like we had kind of forgotten about it. Because I still stand by. Roman and Lesnar were actually having a pretty decent match. It was okay. It felt brutal. Like, it felt like I was watching a man get the shit beat out of him. Well, that was Lesnar's thing at the time, too. He was just like the toughest dude. And he didn't eat the pinfall. Yeah.
00:54:53
Speaker
I don't know man like to me it's weird when they acknowledge like are they are they are they completely stuck on the idea of the as long as the guy is getting a reaction whether it's positive or negative they don't care I I don't know like it like you said it's I don't know we're all fighting this old man but we're not really fighting because like
00:55:14
Speaker
He's like, you can come over to my house if you want. And you're like, all right. And it's just like, every time I go over, this old man's going to show me his wiener. Maybe he won't this time up. There he goes again. And his wiener is Roman Reigns in this analogy. His wiener's Samoan. It's weird.
00:55:29
Speaker
I don't know man, I guess it just sucks because again, the whole reason we started this podcast, the whole reason we love talking about pro wrestling is because we're big pro wrestling fans. And to me, a huge part of WrestleMania is looking forward to the main event. And that used to be a thing that for a decade plus of my wrestling experience was a thing that you did every year, which is, oh my God, I can't wait to see the main event of this show. And for the last few years, I've just been kind of like, eh,
00:55:55
Speaker
Well, and I think that what I've noticed in these four years of going, what I'm going for has evolved.
WrestleMania Experience and Event Anticipation
00:56:03
Speaker
The first year I went, I only went to, it wasn't even a takeover at that point. NXT was just doing their very first house show. And we went to that, great time. And then we went to Mania. Mania ended fine the first year. The second year, I started going to more shit, going to the cons, going to some of the side shows. And at this point, to me, WrestleMania weekend is about traveling there to go watch all the wrestling.
00:56:30
Speaker
I can go watch Progress, Evolve, Ring of Honor, New Japan. I can watch everything in a weekend and it all ends with WrestleMania.
00:56:38
Speaker
and that's what it is for you and that's what it is for me now but I do agree like I wish that I were excited about the main event everybody should be excited about the main event that's what they're trying to sell us these pay-per-views with but is it do you think that the thing that changed is we're not spending $60 on it anymore so we don't have to think about it like we're just I don't know we spent 10 bucks we're gonna watch it anyway
00:57:01
Speaker
Well, I'm glad that you bring that up because that's kind of where I wanted to steer this, which is what exactly has been the change? How do we go from Rock Austin, which was the set, like Rock Austin and Austin McMahon segments on Raw. During the height of the Attitude Era were the most exciting parts of the show. They were the parts of the show that got the biggest reactions. They were outlandish and it always culminated in those guys were involved in the main event and then ultimately main events at WrestleMania.
00:57:31
Speaker
And to now, the people that are in the main event at WrestleMania are the part of the show that people just try to, like, get through. Like, Reigns, and this isn't necessarily a knock on Reigns because I actually think he's improved drastically over the last year as a wrestler. Oh, he put in work he got there.
00:57:51
Speaker
Yeah. So it's not even necessarily that, but he's still not getting the reaction. Like you want to look forward to the main event at WrestleMania because it's, it's the culmination of the most exciting parts of wrestling from the past year. And I guess boiling this, this whole discussion that we've had the last 30 minutes down to this, which is that the most exciting segments on Monday Night Raw have not necessarily been with Roman Reigns. They've definitely been with Braun Strowman. Yeah, agreed.
00:58:17
Speaker
So why not? And I know that you made the point that Strowman's matches are fine. They're okay. And, and I guess my response to that would be, well, then why, why are we even talking about this? If they've got the title on Brock Lesnar, who does all of three moves and everyone knows what, what's coming when he does a match. What, why can't like Strowman has just as much in his arsenal as Lesnar.
00:58:41
Speaker
I think where Strowman is now is where the beginning of Suplex City was. I think the thing that made Lesnar exciting when he came back, he just killed John Cena in that match. He beat the absolute piss out of Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, but we've since seen him soften up a little bit. I feel like you get to see him have more competitive matches. He's not just crushing everybody. He can be beaten. We've seen him be beaten.
00:59:08
Speaker
And that's where Strowman is right now. Strowman's still this monster that is very difficult to beat. Where was I going with that?
00:59:19
Speaker
I don't know I guess to me it's just like I guess that's the broad question which is why isn't the guy who's in the most exciting segments that everyone knows he's in the most exciting segments in the biggest spot and to me that's backwards thinking it's like he's insisting no no no no no I'm telling you that Roman Reigns is the star and everyone's reaction is
00:59:38
Speaker
We don't care. Like, here's who we like and here's who we're reacting to. So you either have to believe that all these fans are faking their reactions to Braun Strowman or to anybody else on that roster just to spite Vince, or it's
Event Impact and Conclusion
00:59:54
Speaker
because those guys are legitimately drawing reactions that they've earned.
00:59:59
Speaker
And it comes down to that it's just like, you put Braun Strowman up against Roman Reigns for so long, who the crowd didn't like, you gave them a different option. And they took it. Was he not expecting that? But here's the thing, Braun Strowman fits the build of everything that Vince loves. He's a huge guy, he's jacked. It's just so weird. And again, Rawls tonight, maybe something could change. They could throw us a curve ball.
01:00:27
Speaker
I could still see him getting thrown in there making that thing a triple threat, but I still see Roman walking out on top because now not only did he beat Brock Lesnar, he beat Brock Lesnar and Braun Strowman in the main event of WrestleMania.
01:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I would love to see him get added to the match if for no other reason than it creates a more interesting dynamic. And it leads me to, I guess the most important thing is, if Lesnar is leaving after Mania, you know how that match is ending at Mania. If you add Strowman to the match, you don't necessarily know who's walking out with the belt. Yeah. But also with Lesnar, we're getting that thing he does where he's like, I don't know, my contract's almost up, I might not sign. And they just give him a shit ton of money again.
01:01:13
Speaker
And they put him in a situation where he has so much leverage again. It's like the same situation. He has the belt. It's almost WrestleMania time. And Vince is gonna get pissy that Lesnar plays hardball with him.
01:01:25
Speaker
I don't know, man. I guess to wrap up, I guess Elimination Chamber was just a validation of everything that we thought was going to happen. And I guess SmackDown gets the last pay-per-view word before Mania. So we'll see if Fastlane is better than Elimination Chamber because I thought Elimination Chamber was just kind of meh. It was okay. It was okay. It was fine. It was like the Bullet Club Elimination Chamber. It was fine.
01:01:53
Speaker
Also, Bullet Club, it might not be fine. And you're going to find out about that on Thursday when we drop a new episode of Predetermined, a pro wrestling hangout. Thank you, everybody, for hanging out with us. It's been a pleasure. Check us out on Twitter at Wrestle Hangout. Check us out on Instagram at Predetermined Podcast.
01:02:14
Speaker
Remember to subscribe on iTunes and give us a rating and review if you would like. We would love to hear from you. And so reach out to us on social media and keep listening, guys. Yes. Thank you, everybody. Have a good week. Also hit our goddamn music.