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Episode 014 - Elf Gratification
15 Plays3 years ago
In the second of our two part holiday special, we discuss movies with the holiday spirit at their core. We cover films from Terry Zwigoff's "Bad Santa" to "It's a Wonderful Life" with lesser known festive treats between.
CREDITS:
Intro clip from Terry Zwigoff's "Bad Santa" (2003) from Columbia Pictures, Dimension Films and Triptych Pictures, distributed by Miramax Films(North American) and Columbia Tristar Film Distributors International
Opening music: https://pixabay.com/music/id-116199/
Closing music: https://pixabay.com/music/id-11176/
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Transcript
Whimsical Car Directions
00:00:05
Speaker
Two oceans. Two oceans will begin. What do you need a car? What the fuck are you talking about? This car.
00:00:26
Speaker
Which turn is it? Sage Terrace, where's your sleigh? It's in the shop, getting repaired. Where's the reindeer? I stabled them. Is it left or right? That way. Where's the stable? Next to the shop. How do they sleep? Where the reindeer is standing up. But the noise, how do they sleep? What noise? From the shop. They only work during the
Podcast Introduction: Festive Films
00:00:49
Speaker
day, alright? I thought it was always night in the North Pole. Well not now, right now it's always day. Then how do they sleep? Oh shit, Sage Terrace.
00:00:57
Speaker
What is it with you, anyway? Somebody drop you on your fucking head? On my head? Well, yeah, what are they gonna drop you on somebody else's head? How can they drop me onto my own head? No, not onto your... What? God damn it! Are you fucking with me?
00:01:15
Speaker
Welcome to the Two Oceans podcast, where myself, Sue Fire, along with my friend and jolly calling Scrumby discuss film and other media through a decades-long lens of mass media consumption. In this episode, we'll be finishing our holiday special by going through the movies with Christmas spirit.
Christmas Special Episode & Trailers
00:01:31
Speaker
This is the Two Oceans podcast. So get that pink elephant for the kid and repair his advent calendar as we begin episode 14.
00:01:43
Speaker
And it's our special Christmas episode. We're actually looking at the movies that actually have something to do with Christmas directly.
00:01:56
Speaker
But first, just thought we'd go over some of the highlights of the trailers this week, and then we'll get to the Christmas stuff. So yeah, a few interesting things have come out. I don't know if you saw the trailer for the pale blue eye with Chris and Bale. Yes. Harry Melling is Edgar Allan Poe. Yes, I did. I did. That looks good. It does, doesn't it? I'm hopeful.
00:02:23
Speaker
Uh, and it's got an amazing cast because I had a look, it's got like Jillian Anderson, Charlotte Gainsburg, Toby Jones, Timothy Spall, Robert Duvall's in it. Hadley Robinson. It's the only good. I'm about to say the director's a hit and miss. Yeah, I did. Did look at that. That's why I'm focusing on the cast. You know, I like crazy heart and I like, I liked hostiles, but I didn't see antlers. I heard it wasn't a great.
00:02:49
Speaker
And what was the one out of the wilderness or out of the furnace? That was the other Christian Bale one. So I thought Hostiles was OK, but, you know, he can direct. He does well with the actors. He gets the tone really well. And I think you can see it in the trailer for The Pale Blue Eye as well. Yeah. And maybe this is what he is waiting for, you know.
00:03:10
Speaker
Yeah. And Harry Melling looks great as Edgar Allan Poe too. Yes. And he was in the Ballad of Buster Scruggs as the Limless guy. That was him. Okay. That's what I recognize him. Horrifying. Horrifying. And he was also, I think he was in the Harry Potter series as well. Probably people shouting, you know, at their podcast machine going, no, of course he was. He was this character. Blah, blah, blah.
00:03:36
Speaker
So important. I have a friend that's totally into those, by the way. And, you know, I've never read nor watched anything of Harry Potter, but you know, just pure nerd dumb exposure, you know, I've learned.
00:03:47
Speaker
a fair amount about it, what happens, who the characters are, those sorts of things. But anytime something comes up and they'll get all excited, I'm like, is that a Harry Potter? They're like, yes, that's a Harry Potter. I'll tell you, there's one I'd recommend that you watch. One that I think is a great, great movie, and that is Alfonso Cuaron's contribution to it, The Prisoner of Aztaman. The Prisoner? Yeah, Gary Oldman.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah. And actually, funny enough, I think that's another Christmas one, Christmas adjacent. So it goes into the previous episode that we did. But yeah, very good. Very good looking feel. He decided that he'd be a little bit darker, a little bit more European, I suppose, and how he approached it. And Gary Oldman makes an appearance in this movie, David Thewlis as well. And they are not wasted. They're really good.
00:04:38
Speaker
All good. Yeah. And I don't think you need to know anything else outside of that. Okay, fair enough. You'll get on fine. I think that's the standard one. You can drop in. Trailers. Trailers, yeah.
Analyzing Trailers & Expectations
00:04:51
Speaker
And there's another one that came out for, and I don't know how many of these we've seen, Three Musketeers, but this one actually looks really good. It's actually a French production. It's got Eva Green, Vincent Cassel,
00:05:05
Speaker
Again, it has that nice sort of gritty feel to it. I don't know if you saw the BBC Three Musketeers series that they released a few years ago. I did not. That was very good. I'd recommend that if you can get a chance to watch that.
00:05:21
Speaker
Um, the cast is pitch perfect. Um, and yeah, uh, Peter Capaldi plays, uh, an evil Bishop. Fantastic. Uh, really, really good, entertaining solid series. Um, you know, yeah, but yeah, the French probably deserved to make their own three musketeers. So, uh, that looks interesting. We'll see how it goes. Um, guardians of the galaxy had our, had the new trailer. Have you seen that? Yes.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yes, I did. And yes, it looks James Gunn's final entry in the Marvel side before he goes over and fixes the abominations that were cast by Hacksnider over in the DC world. So I'm sure he's going to fix everything. So I have complete faith and trust in his abilities.
00:06:10
Speaker
Um, but yes, it is, but I think he's up to it. I think he proved that with, uh, his version of suicide squad and, uh, with P and then peacemaker, uh, as well. Right. Yeah. So, and confidence abounds.
00:06:26
Speaker
Guardians looks good. I hope they can sort of tie it up nicely. Um, I'm sure that's probably, you know, cause it's kind of his, it's been his baby. And so I think it's probably he's like going for that a hundred percent to be like, yeah, let's, I need to put a bow on this. And I mean, from a very sort of slapstick, uh, point of view, it does have a great slapstick moment in the trailer with the, the, the dodge ball and the first alien. Yeah.
00:06:54
Speaker
Really good. And then we had the, from the people who brought us Chernobyl, the trailer for The Last of Us, which is the adaptation of the classic video game. That looks, it looks okay.
00:07:14
Speaker
I really love the game and I really love Chernobyl. I think it's a talented bunch involved, but nothing really sort of sold me more than I was already sold on it, which I don't know if it was a good or bad thing. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. And the trailer for the next season of Bad Batch.
00:07:46
Speaker
I'm kind of hoping that they actually managed to do some more ties to the Andor series because that was fantastic and that's something that we'll hit when we get to our
00:07:57
Speaker
Star Wars, which I almost classify as a whole genre of movie now. Because there's so many different flavors in that universe now. But yeah, that looks like fun. And then we had a few others drop. So we got the new Indiana Jones dropped this week.
00:08:20
Speaker
which looks pretty good. It's the aging thing that I'm just like, I think it might work here, but it's like, why not move these franchises on or bring in other actors? You know, why do we have to keep relying on, oh, like, oh, these people are money makers. It's like other people can be money makers, too. You just have to let them be money makers. Oh, totally.
00:08:43
Speaker
There are more stars out there. I think to a certain degree, it would be good to end the series on a positive note. Much more so than where they left it previously. Totally. And yeah, getting Spielberg out of the way of the director's chair, which is a good call. Right. Yeah.
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think he disconnected from what really made the series great for a long time now. Yeah. Oh, and let's see what the others... Oh, and great. Another Transformers movie. Fantastic that I will not be watching. Oh, you know what? When I go into YouTube and a Transformers trailer sort of comes up,
00:09:24
Speaker
It gets put into the same box that I put advertising for like gambling or all the show that YouTube sends over. It just doesn't even register as another video. I'm not even going to engage with that.
00:09:41
Speaker
Um, we'll see what else, white noise, white noise. Yeah. That started getting really good word of mouth from the States, but then some of the, the, the reviewers over here have been a little bit cool on it. Um, it's been a bit of a mixed bag, but I mean, the trailer does a good job of selling it to me. Um, but yeah, going to need to check that one out. And, uh, the other one I didn't see coming at all was, uh, did you see the trailer for infinity pool?
00:10:10
Speaker
No new one from, uh, the, the, the younger Cronenberg. Oh, really? See, I've got to watch this previous one. So I still haven't seen it. Oh, uh, uh, possessed or dispossessed. Was it your possession possession? That's it. Yes. Excellent.
00:10:28
Speaker
Oh, and then, of course, Cocaine Bear. Cocaine Bear, I have down as my trailer of the week. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. That is definitely the trailer of the week. That gets the official jingle. Gets the official jingle there. I'll tell you another one I saw, and I think I saw this when I last went to the cinema to see
00:10:53
Speaker
she said, by the way, which was really, really good. We didn't record an episode a couple of weeks back. Yeah, that was that was I'll get onto that in a minute, but there was a trailer for a movie called Babylon, Brad Pitt, Margot Robbie, Diego Calva, Toby McGuire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's set during the sort of rise and fall of various players in Hollywood and the transition from sound silent to sound movies in the late 1920s.
00:11:22
Speaker
Looks great. I mean, it looks like so much fun and it really kind of feels... Did you see Mank? I did not yet. I enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that. And just because Oldman is so good in it and the actor who plays Orson Welles does such a great job and he's actually one of my favorites and I almost didn't recognize him.
00:11:53
Speaker
What is his name? Because I try to promote him whenever I can. Come on Wikipedia. Tom Burke. And actually Tom Burke leads in the Musketeer series I was telling you about. He's very, very good.
00:12:13
Speaker
But yeah, going back to She Said, so that was about the whole Harvey Weinstein thing, but it was really good. And apparently it's not done well in the States, but there was a theory around it that they released it to like 3000 cinemas, but that's not the way to release that kind of movie because when they did release this previously, they'd released to like a handful that word of mouth gets out.
00:12:36
Speaker
and it builds up and then they do a wider and wider and wider release. Whereas if you release to like 3000 cinemas and nobody goes, it's like an instant failure. Cool. Well, have you seen
Classic Christmas Movie Highlights
00:12:50
Speaker
any other trailers? I think that's pretty much, shall they? No, that's pretty much the main ones. Yeah. Agreed. Cocaine bear as well. Yes. Oh my God. Why not?
00:13:02
Speaker
And you kind of expected, I didn't expect it to be as good as it was. And, you know, also having it be Ray Liotta's swan song as well. Yeah. Yeah. Adds a little bit extra to it. Cool. So this speaking of good swan songs. Okay.
00:13:22
Speaker
We'll get to as part of our discussion for this week, it would be Bad Santa. Bad Santa. Yeah, and this week we're talking about Christmas specific movies with a main plot. Proper Christmas movies. We're all around Christmas. Set at Christmas, about Christmas. Everything checks.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah. And so that would be the obvious ones, Miracle on 34th Street, It's a Wonderful Life, things like that. But it could be things like you just said, Bad Santa, because it doesn't need to have that hallmark texture to it to be a great Christmas movie. And in fact, it probably will do better if it doesn't. Well, and to explore a story with reprehensible characters.
00:14:09
Speaker
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you've got that sort of zero character arc from beginning to end of any movie, whether it's a Christmas movie or anything else, anything. Yeah, it's just not it's just not interesting. Boring. Right. Yeah. And I think we held back on the last episode about talking about it's a wonderful life because every time I watch that movie every every year,
00:14:33
Speaker
It's shocking how, like, as a society, we've gone backwards, you know, because that whole movie is about getting together. It's about socialism because as they're setting up something to make sure that everybody can be a part of this community, you know, and some people are less well off than others. They start the housing association so people can get a decent house rather than having to pay
00:15:03
Speaker
to slumlords like Potter. And yeah, I mean, it's a heavily socialist movie. And when we were growing up, and I know at the time it was a different perception, but when we were growing up, it was considered the most red-blooded American thing that you could watch during Christmas. There was no question about it being woke or socialist or any of this. No.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of depressing in a way to think that it's nearly 100 years old and the potters of the world are dominating. Yeah, are winning. Right, they're winning. They haven't won, hopefully the game isn't over.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah. And Mark Kermode actually pointed out what a dark movie it is as well. Oh, it's exceptionally. It's about suicide during the holiday, which is a real thing. Right, right. A kid getting beaten as well. Yeah, no, it's really, really grim. People, you know, descending into alcoholism and prostitution, all sorts of things go wrong without him in the world. And also a lot of the film is filmed like a film noir.
00:16:21
Speaker
It is really dark in parts of the movie. I mean, in beautiful, beautiful, but like Citizen Kane type contrasts in the movie, the night scenes when he's kind of going through the town. When the snow goes from, you know, decorative to oppressive back to celebratory. Yeah. Like, you know, even nature itself is at play like a suspect or a character or, you know,
00:16:50
Speaker
even if it's just you know happen again happens to be there it's like everything else yeah it's really a good point and you know do the other thing I like about you know this time here and you're bringing up and or watching it's a wonderful life is that I always watch then the the fishbone song it's a wonderful life well if you haven't seen the video for oh so they did us they did a song that basically in a day they wrote recorded and then shot the video for a song about it's a wonderful life
00:17:20
Speaker
And it's a great song. It's great prime fishbone stuff too, but it recaps the movie. And since the movie is public domain, they can include all the footage they want.
00:17:33
Speaker
Oh, it's a great video. It's a great song. I didn't know that they did it all in one day. They did that whole thing in one day. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. If you're cussed out by my mama, that's my favorite. The Dark George. Yeah, and the other thing I like about what the movie fills in, at the time, it wasn't known then, but looking back,
00:17:58
Speaker
sort of forecast or foreshadows the dark Jimmy Stewart stuff that we'd see in the 50s. Right. Where he did, especially the Westerns and his Hitchcock stuff. Vertigo, my God. Rear window and vertigo, yeah, alone. But much less, you know, broken spur and the handful of Westerns that he made where he is not a good guy. No, no. He's kind of good.
00:18:25
Speaker
But, you know, very gray, very grizzled, very world-weary. Gray is a good way of putting it. You know, not, I mean, he is, he's the man that, you know, this is the vet that's come home from World War II, and it's not the happy, you know, suburban, you know, breeding a boomer's existence. And his characters before were beyond reproach, right?
00:18:53
Speaker
Well, they were the, they were the, they were the Tom Hanks with the emblems, you know, Mr. Smith going to Washington. It's like, Oh, it's Jimmy Stewart. He's, you know, again, you're going to be on his side instantly as the moment he's on screen, you are on his side. A hundred percent. There's another movie that, that, that with.
00:19:10
Speaker
you know, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, where you think, my God, where have we come to? Which direction are we going in? Because, you know, the principles in those movies are almost alien to see now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:27
Speaker
All right. Bad Santa. Let's hit Bad Santa. Let's hit Bad Santa. Aside from It's a Wonderful Life, I think Bad Santa, there's like two staples, maybe a Christmas story as well. I have three or four, but yeah, Bad Santa's top just because of its pure assault.
00:19:50
Speaker
on the Christmas niceties and pure rejection from the get-go. Santa puking, I mean, before the credits are even done, Santa's puking behind the bar.
00:20:01
Speaker
Outside behind the bar or he's pissing himself or you know anything and he's our hero. It's it's glorious And but the fact that you know, he he's doing it purely for terrible selfish You know survival instincts based on you know again environment right nature versus nurture and he realized he gets to that point of realizing what's important and when he thinks he's about to die even he has that
00:20:30
Speaker
that little soliloquy. He's like, I get why you're doing this, but it's just over stuff. You know, it's that complete, his character finally embraces what the Christmas story is supposed to be about, you know, turning something new, creating something better, regardless of what it looks like, you know, and that's the best, that's my favorite thing about Ben Santa. It's like, this does not look, this is not a traditional family, but it is a traditional family by Christmas holiday standards.
00:20:58
Speaker
It did upset the Christian right. Oh, yeah. So you know, you're on the right track. Yeah, that as well. Right. If there's a canary in the mind that that will tell that you're upsetting the Christian right. Oh, here's a bit of trivia. Like in the Czech Republic, the movie is actually called Santa is a pervert is translated.
00:21:20
Speaker
Fair enough. Also, do not do not bother with the sequel. I haven't. I haven't. It is pointless. It's it doesn't add anything. It doesn't add anything to it. I mean, despite despite the presence of Christina Hendricks, even it still really doesn't do anything. I mean, the casting looks great. But yeah, without Zweigoff on board, I'm not I'm not there. So and again, the other like directors commentary for it, I would direct
00:21:47
Speaker
you to is the Gilbert Godfrey podcast interview with Terry Zweigoff, where he talks about making this and what a nightmare Billy Bob was. But how perfect that works for the movie. Yeah, it did. It did. You know, Bill Murray was the first choice for the lead. Yes. Which would not have worked. We wouldn't have worked, no.
00:22:12
Speaker
No, you need that grizzled fowl. I mean, oh, and there's so much good in it. I mean, my favorite thing in it is his relationship to children. Cause again, the typical Christmas thing, right? Is like, oh, and children are just these little angels and it's a special day for them. He's cussing at them. He beats the crap out of one with a skateboard and then he feels good about it. Like, yeah, he doesn't show remorse for any of it. He has no problem. Like when he just, he's screaming at this like kid that is just,
00:22:42
Speaker
frustratingly vacant kind of on his side. You're totally on his side until a mall, Santa, you know, exactly. Cough chocolate up all over your face and then ask you for a gift. He'd be like, I know. And the other just the first kid is like, you know what, you know, what's wrong with you? And he's like, I loved a woman who wasn't clean. Yeah. Right to the kid. He's like, I do not care. I do not care about any of the trappings of this. But by the end, he does.
00:23:09
Speaker
And the thing that changes, I mean, the big pivot in it, and again, if you haven't seen it, I don't know what you're doing with your life. But the annoying kid realizes he's cut himself so badly at that one point where he interrupts and he's screaming and it's when he was carving him the wooden pickle as a gift. And he's like, why is it dark? It's like, oh, that's just my blood on it. It's just like, something breaks though inside him.
00:23:37
Speaker
his pure cynicism that all those walls between that and the advent calendar they ate while they were drunk. Yeah. And they have to fix and then they fix it so beautifully. Nyquil and a penny and his line, he's like, why is this one this? And he's like, well, they can't all be winners. He's my favorite. I mean, not just for an advent calendar, but you know, overall in life.
00:24:01
Speaker
You know, it's fair. It's, that's, that sums up his character, but it's also, there's a hopefulness to it, but it's like, yeah, not everything. And that's kind of the, that kind of sums up the whole movie. Like you're not going to win everything, but you're not going to, you know, it's that whole thing. Yeah. You know, you can't win them all. It's like, but you can't lose them all either. And some things are worth some things, especially when it's special, especially to the kid that Christmas becomes something more to him.
00:24:24
Speaker
And that's why I would argue that Bad Santa is one of the best at telling that story. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And from a point of view that is convincing as well. I mean, it's a ridiculous situation in the movie, but the emotions are very convincing. And he's got so far to go.
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, like this journey is so big and also shouting and always didn't mention about, you know, John Ritter's last film, one of the last ones, Bernie Mac got to be in. Oh, that's true. You know, the cast is amazing. But Octavia Spencer shows up in it. I don't know if you remember that. She's she's one of the she's the the hooker at the at the motel hotel. I didn't tell him right for a week. Exactly. That's her. That's her line.
00:25:12
Speaker
I mean, you talk about the sequel not being worth seeing, and yeah, I haven't really wanted to see it. But I tell you what I do want to see is Zweigoff's original cut to the movie. Oh my goodness, yes. I would love to see it as well. What is that? What is that? Please. What does that look like? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:34
Speaker
I would love to see a deep dive on that movie anyway, just because, you know, you look at the casting to how the heck did this get made kind of thing to the writers that are listed on there. You know, because what is it? Isn't it like Joel Cohen? Oh, yeah, the Cohen brothers supported on it. Yeah, they had. Yeah, they had some support to finish it. Script treatment or something. Which you can see, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think you can see in the in the arc.
00:26:00
Speaker
And the how well structured the story is, you know, that's they're really their forte. Yeah, but they they are good at that. What else do you have on your your your your Christmas, Rhoda? What else? Well, so, you know, Christmas vacation is another one that I throw on to the. But in terms of, you know, just because it's more making fun of the hallmarks of Christmas itself, it's not really, though,
00:26:27
Speaker
I mean, it is a good Christmas movie, but it's not really. It's more of a family gathering movie. Hughes did it better with playing series on automobiles, I think, making a better about the sentiment. Right. Of it, which I think, if I'm not mistaken, came later. It did. He got strands came after. So I think he got something else. Another one that I throw in there. Elves. I'm not the biggest Colin Farrell fan or Will Ferrell fan. Me too. Me too. Will Ferrell.
00:26:57
Speaker
But in that he just crushes it, right?
00:27:06
Speaker
There we go. Jingle time. Terrific. Yeah. Great insights. When you were just talking about Farrell in that movie and yeah, I wasn't a big fan either. But that might be an episode that we do later. Movies with actors that don't usually appeal to us but are great. Because I could sort of think of like Punch-Drunk Love without him saying the word. Punch-Drunk Love. And he is so good in that movie. And Unkunk Gems. Yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
uncut gems as well. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. But yeah, so those are a few that pop up. The, you know, and Scrooge will occasionally just because you're of a sentimental kind of thing from the 80s, you know, but, you know, it does good parts take parts, but parts of it do not age. Well, let's just put it that way. I mean, the
00:27:58
Speaker
hilariousness of Bobcat coming back to murder everyone in the office with a gun is played for laughs. It's like, okay, guys, that's really not that funny. Yeah. It's kind of weird looking back and seeing what used to be acceptable.
00:28:16
Speaker
Did you see Tokyo Godfathers? I haven't watched it yet. So for those at home who haven't seen this, it is an anime from Japan set during the holiday season.
00:28:33
Speaker
between Christmas and New Year, three homeless people come upon a baby and the whole movie is their quest to try to get this baby back to where it belongs. And if that doesn't hook you, and it's done so well, it's very, very good.
00:28:51
Speaker
It's one that people aren't aware of, but I rank it up there like some of the best anime I've ever seen. Definitely a Christmas one. There is a nice arc there for the characters. Yeah. In terms of ones that you may have overlooked or missed, because there are some good ones and newer ones that have come out that have been
00:29:14
Speaker
Actually, all right. But one of them that I enjoy and it kind of relates more to the Christmas Carol approach with the different perspectives, the different stories, because arguably, Christmas Carol is three different... It's almost an anthology.
00:29:32
Speaker
Uh, cause it's three, the three different ghosts, three different storylines, three different things. There, uh, is one called the night before with, um, uh, uh, Seth, uh, now in the space. You know, sounds like two syllables. Um,
00:29:49
Speaker
The night before. OK. The night before. So that you added that to the list. Seth Rogen. There it is. And Joseph Gordon Levitt and Michael B. Jordan as well as three friends or Anthony Mackie, not Michael B. Jordan. I always get those guys confused. I'm terrible. I know. I'm sorry. Oh, terrible. Room to improve. There we go. It's Christmas. But there are three friends that have a tradition of going out on Christmas Eve, but
00:30:18
Speaker
This one, they go out and they all have to experience. They've all got shit in their lives. They have to get right. Yeah. And the one thing that interconnects them apart from because they're they're together and then they're separate because, you know, they fuck things up or they just mean to each other. You know, yeah, they're processing a lot. Right. Is Michael Shannon is the basically the their their pot dealer that they keep going back to. They each going back, you know, but two at different times, they're sitting with them just getting baked in his car.
00:30:46
Speaker
for it but you realize he's doing it you realize he's the angel that's the one tying all three together. Amazing. Which is ridiculous and they play it as ridiculous. Yeah. It could be maybe a little kinder to its female characters give them a little more screen time but it does an okay job with that that's the one area I think it falls down on but
00:31:06
Speaker
There's some scenes in there when Seth Rogen, there's one point that he has to, he's just got this loose bag of pills and he has to get rid of them. So he just takes all of them. And what happens after that is absolutely hilarious. Like it's one of the funniest bits. It's
00:31:23
Speaker
It's up there to me with the bit from, uh, and again, I didn't really care for Wolf, Wolf of wall street overall, but the scene where, uh, Leonardo was on the barbiturates and trying to get into his car. Oh, do you know how they, I laughed, I laughed so hard. They didn't like backwards or something, didn't they? Well, they, they, so from, from the wide shots, there were like three steps up to the house.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. For the close-up shots, they had this huge staircase. That was like 15 steps. And so in his mind, it was this ton of steps, but when you look at him from a distance, it was nothing. Yeah. That whole sequence is just... I mean, it reminds you that Scorsese needs to do another comedy.
00:32:12
Speaker
He's done some fantastic ones and he should really get because that whole segment was brilliant. But yeah, those are the ones kind of fit in, you know, some of the... What's your favorite rendition of A Christmas Carol? Because there are a lot. Man, that's tough. And there's a new one to add that was... Some of them are unique.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah. The one Spirited just came out on Apple TV this year, this season with Ryan Reynolds and back to Will Ferrell, who's actually really good in it. It's tough because Ryan Reynolds is supposed to be the scumbag and that's a tough sell. I mean, he tries, but everybody's like, it's Ryan Reynolds. You're not going to dislike Mr. Perfect, and it's full on musical.
00:33:01
Speaker
as well. Okay. I just looked up actors who have played Scrooge and there's no way I could read it all out. I'll give it a start. So you got Jim Carrey, Tom Hanks, Albert Finney, Patrick Stewart, Will Ferrell, Michael Caine, George C. Scott, Guy Pearce, Kelsey Grammer, Tim Curry, Christopher Plummer, Basil Rathbone,
00:33:25
Speaker
Rich Little, Walter Mathau, Simon Callow, Jack Palance. Oh my God. Can you imagine Jack Palance?
00:33:41
Speaker
pick up the gun. Go on, scratch it. It's like he's just going to murder him. I'd expect, I mean, who played death? Exactly. What do you got? Yeah.
00:33:57
Speaker
Well and that's you know there's bits so that so speaking of that though in terms of not just. Scrooge himself but some of the others like like in the other ghosts yeah like the ghost of Christmas present for me my favorite one was from Scrooge this Carol Kane.
00:34:14
Speaker
as the the pixie that just beats the shit out of him with like a toaster or everything she just punches him and kicks him in the balls and like every you know it's hilarious bit of physical comedy but she just pulls it off with that pixie sort of thing and is just and has no fear about and about what they're showing him you know that because that's part of the point too I mean it's uh
00:34:35
Speaker
Well, the Bill Murray version, I mean, he wasn't really playing Scrooge because as he liked Christmas, he just wanted to exploit it because he's a TV executive. Exactly. He's like, well, more people are sat down on their sofas watching TV at this time of year. Of course I love Christmas, but for all the wrong reasons, you know. Yeah.
00:34:53
Speaker
And the oddly prescient bit with his boss, Robert Mitchum, which is, that might've been his last role, I don't know. No, he was in Dead Man. He was in Dead Man. Oh, that's right, he was. But having the bit about the programming for Cats, for Animals, and they're like, this is ridiculous. And it comes into the movie and it works when they're doing it inside the movie. But now you see stuff now where there's channels for
00:35:18
Speaker
pets videos for your pets. Like, like, okay, that was weird that they called that the most ridiculous thing is what's become
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah. We don't have flying cars. We have channels for dogs. Well, this goes back to the position that we're in during It's a Wonderful Life. It's like, God, I'd love to live in that utopia that's described there, where people who are in need actually gang together and don't sell out. Yeah, and help each other. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:53
Speaker
But speaking to the Scrooge thing and once too is the the Muppet Christmas Carol. Yeah, that is one of the best and it's well and it's the just because they you know, you know They talked to Michael Caine after they made it and he was like he knew He couldn't be you know, he can pull off comedy But he knew he couldn't that wouldn't be right or when he couldn't do it here. So that's why he plays that I mean
00:36:16
Speaker
His lines are 100 percent, you know, pretty close to 100 percent from the original story. I mean, he is right. Ebenezer Scrooge, like from Dickens, purely straightforward. And yeah, at least it wasn't somebody said like, you know, as serious as a car crash, something like that, because that's the only thing that would work. Or do you know what's really great? And if you go back to the original Muppet movie,
00:36:46
Speaker
is all the actors in that played it as if they're playing against people. Like they could play it completely earnestly. And it is so good. So good. And such a diverse cast as well. And I think that's the strength of the Muppet movies. I've enjoyed the recent ones as well from the Flight of the Conchords, guys. Though their input was good. I think it brought some new life into the movies.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I would agree as well. But yeah, I'm trying to think. White Christmas, I think is another one of those big ones. It's a big one, but I don't like it. Yeah. The pacing is awful and it's the story is just, I mean, it feels so forced, which it was. I mean, but it just feels so
00:37:37
Speaker
off and and then there's the level of schmaltz and you know it's like oh you're supposed to love this one kind of you know aspect to it it's like no no no no no i'm not gonna i think it's been used as a as a template for some of the more schmaltzy movies since then which it kind of you don't even have the yeah it doesn't even feel a cornerstone even though it it was at the time you know right now it is not yeah
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a few other old ones that are good, like Holiday in Connecticut. It's another one with Barbara Stanwyck. That's pretty good. That holds up fairly well. Shop Around the Corner. Oh, that's a great one. The Ernst Lewis one, which was horrifically remade. Oh, no. As you've got mail. Okay. Oh. Skip that. Watch the original because it's such a joy. I didn't watch it. Didn't watch it. But again, back to the Happy Jimmy story thing as well. I don't know.
00:38:30
Speaker
Well, you know, they made, and apparently it's pretty good.
Sequels and Representation in Christmas Films
00:38:35
Speaker
There is a sequel to a Christmas story that came out this year. And despite its repetition, you know, being the Mariah Carey of Christmas movies, the original still holds up. The original I still like. It's still fun.
00:38:49
Speaker
Well, they're actually having special screenings here at the theater for a Christmas story. Yeah, I know. It's big of a classic over in this side of the world as well. Really? It feels so American to me at its core.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, it does. But I think it's that Christmas core is something that's quite relatable. We talked a bit in the last episode about that, is that some of those hallmarks are universal for Christmas. It does such a great job of capturing childhood.
00:39:25
Speaker
You know, moments, you know, there's times in the playground, you know, the overprotective mother and crazy dad and, yeah, embarrassing parents. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. It's a great little movie. And as we pointed out in the last one, he also did the completely dark Black Christmas as well.
00:39:51
Speaker
Bad Santa, we got, better watch out. Better watch out, great riff on Home Alone as well within that. But yeah, it's a horror movie, don't be confused. But in terms of horror movies, it's pretty good. It's better than Krampus, which was very uneven for me, the newer one with Adam Scott.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, I collect I liked it, but it was you know, it's just more of like yeah, I liked it in that way, right? It's like I'm not gonna watch this all the time kind of like the a lot of the newer ones like Noel or the Christmas Chronicles movies with Kurt Russell Right. I haven't seen those
00:40:34
Speaker
they're harmless, you know, they're not bad. If you had to sit, and again, some of these, you know, it's another trope, perhaps, of them is to have for them to produce something that, you know, basically is not
00:40:47
Speaker
disagreeable by everyone that's gathered in the house. If you've got families in town or whatever, and you're just going to throw on a movie, it's not going to offend. It's going to be pretty harmless, right? Right, right. And the only other thing I liked about the Christmas Chronicles is the backing band he gets, Santa gets at one point. Of course, he has to have a song and dance number.
00:41:07
Speaker
But he sings, uh, an Elvis Christmas song. And I'm like, Hey, I get it. Cause Kurt Russell played Elvis. I see what you did there. He gets to play Elvis again. I thought to see, you know, that brief little nerd moment there, but otherwise, uh, you know, again, they're fine.
00:41:25
Speaker
They're not annoying. Some of these we give half a chance to. I stumbled across one sort of Christmas theme just on a movie. It's an anime series or short limited series called The Disparance of Haruie, Susie Mia. I actually watched the first
00:41:43
Speaker
couple of episodes before I got too busy this week. But yeah, that's an interesting one. Because it goes full hog on Christmas for sure. It's at Japanese high school in Tokyo. There's this little group that are kind of decorating their club room for Christmas in preparation for this.
00:42:05
Speaker
And something in the first episode, our main protagonist just wakes up one morning and things have kind of changed slightly, but it's not like a Christmas carol or it's a wonderful life. It's a little bit more vague about what's going on here.
00:42:30
Speaker
I need to see how this one pans out, but it's quite interesting seeing Christmas from a Japanese point of view, and it's very much like our Christmas. So that's a bit of a surprise with some things done slightly differently through a different kind of weird distorted lens, not like
00:42:51
Speaker
City of Lost Children, Distorted Ledge, but just slightly kind of tweaked in a different style. But yeah, I'm giving that one a shot because I've never heard of it. And it came up on a couple of lists of Christmas themed media. OK, another newer one, though, I'd throw out there. And just because it's, again, the different perspective is Jingle Jangle came out a couple of years ago. It's all black.
00:43:14
Speaker
uh, production of, uh, just a set about Christmas, uh, basically, uh, uh, Forest Whitaker's in it and, uh, Keegan, Michael Key, uh, is, is, is in it as a, you know, good care and, you know, it's fun and it's again, musical. Uh, but it's also something that's, you know, refreshingly not all white people, uh, as well. So it's a, it's worth calling out in those, in those situations when it's, when it's notable, I know there's been,
00:43:44
Speaker
I think more of an uptick of them, but a lot of them seem to a lot of black Christmas movies. Let's call it because it's, you know, but they're much more just following the same trope of Christmas movies. It's just now with the black, you know, now with black people, you know, wearing a media Christmas or something. And so it doesn't really.
00:44:05
Speaker
It lands in about the same way. It's just like, oh, this is my thing about Tyler Perry. It's like he proves that black people can make garbage as well. Well, if it feels like they're putting in another race or alignment of some kind and they don't make any changes, it's blatantly tokenism. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
00:44:28
Speaker
But I actually remember seeing the trailer for Jingle Jangle, and that looked good to me. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's just, you know, no going in, it's a musical, it's a Christmas thing, but it's, yeah, it's a little better than your average, I would say.
00:44:46
Speaker
trying to, trying to give new stuff a chance, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then way back in the nineties, we also had, uh, uh, the preacher's wife with, uh, Denzel Washington was basically playing the angel. Yeah. Which again, Whitney Houston is not an actress. I'm sorry. No, no, no. Whitney Houston was good playing Whitney Houston when she was with the bodyguard, the bodyguard. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:10
Speaker
No, I'd say on that one, watch the original Cary Grant is, I mean, no disrespect to Denzel, but Cary Grant really owns that role. Cary Grant is, is, yeah, I could do a whole episode around Cary Grant movies because they're really varied as well. They are. It's very well. And, you know, we did that totally unrelated, but, um, in the movie, some like it hot again, back to Billy Wilder.
00:45:37
Speaker
Tony Curtis's character that he creates to flirt with Marilyn Monroe as a guy, not in drag. And he affects the Cary Grant accent. He does, yeah. And it's like, why? Why? Why does that accent speak to prestige and wealth and something? When you see him in something like His Girl Friday or something like that, you know,
00:46:04
Speaker
It's definitely not, or, you know, North by Northwest or anything. It's just, that's just the way he talks. You know, it doesn't really, uh, and it's a weird accent. It doesn't exist over here. And they used to say, Oh, that's the mid Atlantic accent. It's not. No, it's not. He's the only one. Yeah. Yeah. Archie made it up.
00:46:21
Speaker
Well, Archie, Archie's from Bristol, and that's not what the Bristol accent is. Right. Yeah, for sure. But anyway, you had another on the list, Day of the Beast. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, I'll hold my hand up on here. So some of these, I've thrown down just for sort of future viewing or... Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.
00:46:50
Speaker
It says, a heavy metal fan and a psychic helped a priest seek the infant Antichrist in Madrid at Christmas. It's a Spanish movie.
00:47:08
Speaker
And yeah, but it has pretty solid reviews. Actually, it says it's a Spanish Italian black comedy film with horror elements. The director has made movies from 1993 to now, starting with Mutant Action.
00:47:29
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't recognize any of the movies. Um, but, uh, yeah, this one sounds intriguing just to, to, to mix things up for Christmas. I think, uh, I'll be watching a day of the beast after my, I think my Christmas meal. So nice. Uh, the other one I throw in and well, it's, it's kind of tough to make a recommendation because it's a newer Mel Gibson movie and right. Okay.
00:47:53
Speaker
To me, it's very troubling just because, you know, we grew up with him being such an awesome dude, you know, like this idealized thing, right? And yeah. But yes, yes. Hey, there we go. Fixes all. But the one with Walt Goggins, it's called Fat Man.
00:48:11
Speaker
And basically the premise is the gangster's kid doesn't get what he wanted for Christmas, so he hires a guy to go kill Santa. And Walt Goggins is fantastic as the assassin.
00:48:25
Speaker
figuring out and he has to find Santa's lair and Mel Gibson is the titular Santa who's very weary, he's lost, he's losing his step, he's old, so there's old man things in it, but also he's just kind of tired of it and what it means or what it doesn't mean and what's worked and what hasn't, it's kind of a,
00:48:46
Speaker
He's feeling like a lack of purpose. And this gives him a purpose and such. But he's also Santa, so he's strong and he's got all these, they pull in the weird superhero.
00:49:02
Speaker
things without, but without overblowing them, you know, so he knows everybody's name and what they've done, you know, it's a whole, he's always watching and, uh, uh, but he's, uh, you know, he's not bulletproof, but he's pretty invulnerable or invincible to an extent. It'll probably be on television this year, won't it? I think it's been out long enough. Been long enough. Yeah. Yeah. As long as I don't- But it's not bad and it's, you know, the, the premise is good and, and,
00:49:24
Speaker
Uh, the, the resolution on it is nice. Okay. So, uh, but again, with the caveat, it's Mel Gibson. I mean, he's still good. And the thing is he's still good. And you know, the movies I've seen, the few I've seen now with a minute, you know, he's still good, but man, what a piece of garbage. But, you know, that's because we know what a piece of garbage is. There's so many more out actors out there that I'm like, okay, you know,
00:49:52
Speaker
that I'll blindly sit through that I'm like, I'm sure this person's probably a horrible, horrible person. I mean, it's a tricky thing, isn't it? It's the whole, you know, can you separate the art artist from the art? Yeah. And, you know, it's it's really difficult tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We could have a whole hour talking about that one and getting right back to where we started.
00:50:16
Speaker
and going nowhere. Exactly. But this is not the point of a port of guest. When you talked about some like it hot, so spending this week doing the editing on, by the way, everybody out there, two oceans have created videos around the
00:50:35
Speaker
Uh, sight and sounds top 100, which you should enjoy on YouTube. The links will be below, blah, blah, blah. Um, but when I was going through and doing the editing and trying to choose the scenes for, for each of the movies in the list, I was trying not to choose the scenes that always show up. Do you know what I mean? Like I can, some like it hot, just, uh, you know, always showing Marilyn around things like this because
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, right. And one of the biggest things in that movie, when you actually do get to watching it, is it's kind of a gangster movie for the first third. And the last bit. Yeah. And it's got quite a dark tone to it. And
00:51:18
Speaker
It's quite gritty. It's almost like a Scorsese comedy in the first third, which, you know, if you were to look at any representation for the movie, you would have no idea about that. And I think a lot of people that think, oh, well, that's just not, you know, two guys in drag or join a band. It's not my thing kind of thing. But I think more people would give it a chance if they didn't just keep representing these movies in exactly the same way. Same way. Yeah.
00:51:47
Speaker
Well, it looks like we've pretty much got to the end of all our Christmas stuff. I'm sure we'll come up with some more. And then I suppose we're going to take a little bit of a break over Christmas and we'll come back with our top 10 movies of 2022 from each of us.
00:52:24
Speaker
I suppose, yeah, we'll- Just singing along. See each other in the new year. What are you doing for new years, actually? We are going to Las Vegas. All right. We're going full bore spectacle. Nice, nice. With some friends, yeah, doing the, you know, finally, finally feel safe enough to do so and-
00:52:35
Speaker
Unlikely to be 40, 20 movies. We'll probably overlap in a few.
00:52:45
Speaker
Oh, great. I'm going with my Irish friends to Newcastle. It's not quite Las Vegas, but we're going to spend Christmas Eve. Is that like a Cockney euphemism or something? Well, we're going to spend our time at a brewery, so... Not the Newcastle Brewery, though, is it? The Newcastle Brewery, yeah. It is.
00:53:07
Speaker
yes there well there you go alright my friend have a merry christmas and a happy new year yes sir you as well thank you
00:53:52
Speaker
God damn it, are you fucking with me?