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Episode 56: Erin Youngren - How to Find Your Dream Clients
148 Plays5 years ago
Erin and Jeff are based out of Southern California, but they have shot across the US and around the world.
They also manage two other photography brands that photograph weddings, portraits, and commercial work. If you’re counting, that’s three different photography brands each with a different clientele. This makes Erin particularly knowledgeable about our topic today, which is learning more about your ideal client, or as she refers to them, your ‘dreamies.’
This episode is jammed pack with practical information, and honestly Erin’s approach to discovering your ideal client is among the best I’ve heard. She moves beyond the typical client avatar and provides practical tips for better understanding your clients “why”—and then she goes one step further and explains how this can you better connect with your ideal client.
The official bio: Jeff and Erin Youngren are the husband and wife wedding photography team known as The Youngrens. For over a decade, their deeply emotional style has led them across the U.S. and around the world to photograph extraordinary weddings with couples they love. Along with The Youngrens, Jeff and Erin also own and manage two other photography brands that photograph weddings, portraits, and commercial work, and host the Creative Rising podcast, a behind the scenes show about what it’s really like to run a photography business. As the owners of three businesses with a regular team of ten photographers plus a full-time staff of editors, designers, and studio managers, Jeff and Erin have developed highly effective business models and marketing systems to accommodate the needs of each brand.
When they're not shooting, traveling, or speaking, you’ll find them hanging out with their seriously adorable son, James, in their hometown of San Diego, CA.
For the show notes and additional resources, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-erin-youngren-episode-56/.
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Transcript
Understanding Ideal Clients
00:00:05
Speaker
This is where you connect with people that you never thought it would be possible to connect with. So you might actually have so many more ideal clients that you don't realize are ideal clients until you start digging down to that values level.
Introduction to the Show and Hosts
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:38
Speaker
Today we are chatting with photographer Aaron Youngren, one half of the Youngrens, a husband-wife photography team. Aaron and Jeff are based out of Southern California, but they have shot across the US and around the world. They also manage two other photography brands that photograph weddings, portraits, and commercial work. So if you're counting, that's three different photography brands, each with a different clientele.
Exploring Ideal Clients ('Dreamies')
00:01:00
Speaker
This makes Aaron particularly knowledgeable about our topic for today.
00:01:04
Speaker
which is learning more about your ideal client, or as she refers to them, your dreamies. This episode is jam-packed with practical information, and honestly, Erin's approach to discovering your ideal client is among the best I've heard. She moves beyond the typical client avatar and provides practical tips for understanding your client's why. And then she goes one step further and explains how this can better help you connect with your ideal client.
00:01:30
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at Davey and Krista for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And in this episode in particular, there are a lot. And I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands That Book podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davey and Krista Facebook page and send us a message.
Balancing Personal and Professional Life
00:01:50
Speaker
Now, on to the episode.
00:01:56
Speaker
I'm excited to welcome Aaron younger into the brand set book show. Aaron I know it's bright and early out in sunny San Diego but as we were just talking about I think we're both kind of used to early schedules you having a 15 month old now and us having a 14 month old but welcome to the show.
00:02:12
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. And yes, these early hours have become very familiar to me. And I'm not a morning person, but I definitely have become one with our little sweet baby James who he's a great sleeper, but anyone with kids will definitely resonate with being up early.
00:02:28
Speaker
for sure. You know, it's funny, Krista's a morning person, but I feel like that's just made her even more of a morning person. She's getting up at like five in the morning just to get work done before Jack wakes up. And then I'm not naturally a morning person, but like you have learned, I need to get up early and start my day or otherwise it's a lot shorter than it used to be.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yes, I cannot stay up late like I always love to do. I have to tell myself to go to bed because these mornings are different and so my schedule has definitely shifted. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's funny because one of the biggest changes which I absolutely should have anticipated
00:03:03
Speaker
is that just every day is the same now, right? Jack goes to bed at the same time, he gets up at the same time, so it doesn't matter that if I'm staying up late with friends, it's not like he's going to let me sleep in the next morning. But I'm excited to have you here on the show.
Journey to Photography and Travel
00:03:16
Speaker
Aaron and Jeff have not one, but three different photography brands that they manage. And a little bit of what we're talking about today is
00:03:25
Speaker
Really going deeper with figuring out who your ideal client is and how to reach them and like I said having three different brands all Successful in their own right Erin has definitely had to think through this on multiple occasions for her own brand and then in addition to that Erin you also teach about this as well
00:03:45
Speaker
Yes, I do. It has been quite the wild ride. We did not set out to have three brands when we started our business 13 years ago, but that is where we are. And it's been so much fun. And understanding our ideal clients 100% has been huge in making each one of these brands successful for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. And I'd like to go back 13 years here and just talk about how you all got started in photography and then kind of how these different brands came to be.
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's a huge question. Everyone's like, how did this happen? And that's a lot of time to cover, too, you know? Definitely. So Jeff and I are a husband and wife wedding photography team. We're in San Diego, California. And we met back in college, which was also here in San Diego. And I was a freshman literature major that was fresh off the farms from Idaho, which is where I grew up. I was a dirty farm kid that swam in ditches and rode horses.
00:04:42
Speaker
Jeff was a biology major and when I came to college I worked at the front desk of the library and he was in the library studying all the time. I didn't know this but him and all of his biology nerd friends kept calling me the hot librarian.
00:04:58
Speaker
I, one day he just got up the guts to ask out the hot librarian. So that's how we met and started dating and very quickly we got married. And in that time, Jeff was going to go to med school, but decided, you know what? I don't want to be a doctor my whole life. So he gets a job in cancer research and he is into photography this whole time. So all growing up, he loves photography and he starts shooting his first weddings right around the time we get married.
00:05:23
Speaker
And I start assisting him at these weddings. I pick up one of his extra cameras and just fall in love with it. Like I'm like, Jeff, I know why you love this so much. Let's do this. And so we decided to do this together. So we work really hard for the next couple of years to quit our corporate jobs and go full time. And so once we're able to quit our jobs,
00:05:43
Speaker
Our business explodes at that point. We start traveling nonstop. The first thing we did after we quit our jobs was we took our laptops to Singapore and we lived there for two months and we traveled all of Southeast Asia. It was amazing. That is amazing. It's like everything you ever dream of when you quit your day job, right?
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I do have a question. I mean, both of you super intelligent. I mean, Jeff is was going to go on and be a doctor. Was there any pushback whether I mean, even as you all discussed going the photography route or pushback even from family and like, hey, really, I mean, you could be, you know, Jeff, you could be a doctor, you know, and I mean, just when you're thinking about like, you know, I guess typically stable incomes and things like that. So was there any discussion there? Was this just kind of one of those things where you were like, no, we're going for it?
00:06:31
Speaker
Oh, it was so much discussion about, should we do this? Should we not? And big credit goes to Jeff's parents because his parents were definitely your typical, you know, stayed in the same job for many, many years. His dad was very successful, climbed the corporate ladder. And when Jeff sat down to talk to his dad about this, he was terrified because he's like, dad, I'm going to, I got this amazing, expensive private education and now I'm going to go be a photographer. And so he laid out his whole business plan to his dad.
00:07:01
Speaker
And his dad took a quick look at it, but then looked at Jeff and said, I just want you to be happy. And I am so proud of you that you're following your dreams. And his dad got really weepy and teary eyed. I mean, him and his dad are both super emotional people. So this is not unusual for him to get teary eyed, but he was super supportive in the whole thing. And so that really allowed us the emotional freedom to really go after it. So that was very awesome that we had that experience.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And so from that moment on, so you go, you moved to Singapore for two months, you said? Mm-hmm. Yeah. That whole year, we actually traveled six months out of that year. We shot weddings in Mexico and Italy, Costa Rica. We shot an engagement session in Sydney, Australia. And, and how are you, how are you booking these clients? This is pretty early on in the business, right? Yeah. We're maybe four year, three, four years into our business. So it's pretty early on.
00:07:55
Speaker
And it really was, we finally started understanding who our ideal clients were. Like quite honestly, it was that we finally started getting it when it was like, who are we going after and how do we reach them? And so we started just putting.
00:08:11
Speaker
feelers out there and saying, we want to travel. Do any of your friends know any friends that are getting married somewhere else and doing destination weddings? That really is how we got these weddings that were all over the place, is that we just told people we want destination weddings and people started coming out of the woodworks.
00:08:31
Speaker
But because we were starting to understand our ideal clients, we knew who the people were that we needed to reach out to. And we would tell our friend who lived in New England, like, hey, we'd love to do a wedding in your neck of the woods. We love New England weddings. They're classic. They're traditional. We're looking for someone who has XYZ. If you know of anyone, let us know and we will make it happen. And so that person was armed with that knowledge of, oh my gosh, this friend fits exactly who they want.
00:09:01
Speaker
let me hook them up with Jeff and Erin. And then when they did make that connection, we did everything we possibly could to make sure that we could book that wedding in a way that made sense for both of us. And so we are definitely in that hustle mentality of this is what we're going after. And when we get those opportunities, we're going to make those opportunities happen for ourselves.
Importance of Client Values
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. And it's just it's amazing how, you know, a little bit of intentionality and then just being upfront, you know, with people goes a long way in, you know, creating these opportunities, you know, sometimes it is as simple, I think as putting it out there that you're looking for certain kind of work.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, the more specific you can be in your ask, the better, because you need to tell people exactly what it is you're looking for. Not just, hey, I'm shooting weddings if you know of anyone getting married, because that can be just a little too broad for someone to take action on. But if you're saying, you know what, I would love to shoot a wedding at this venue, if you happen to know anyone that's getting married at this venue, and they're also like really cool people that are like yourselves, then
00:10:05
Speaker
send them our way and make sure to tell them we'll take care of them. Not that you're gonna give them a huge discount or you're gonna do it for free or anything like that, but just so they know we're gonna take care of them and so they can feel good about sending their friend to you for business.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I think this is a good opportunity to talk about how you figure out who to ask and what kind of people to ask for just ideal client in general. And it's a phrase I think that's thrown around a lot. And so maybe it's most helpful to start with some mistakes that you see. You know, I love even talking about how you're getting very specific with your request and ask, but what are the biggest mistakes that you see people make when it comes to, you know, figuring out who their ideal client is?
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, so ideal client, like you said, I feel the same way it gets talked about all the time. And
00:10:57
Speaker
I feel like it gets talked about in a way that is a little bit of a disservice to most creatives because most of the education that I hear about this topic, especially in the photography industry, which is what I'm in, a lot of the education stays at the surface of the conversation. So the advice that I hear is figure out what cars your ideal clients drive, what jobs they work at, their annual income, what kind of houses they live in.
00:11:20
Speaker
A lot of demographic information that, yes, is really important. That's all information you need to know about your favorite clients in order to understand who they are. But that information doesn't necessarily become powerful until you understand the connections below the surface, unless you understand why they are making the decisions that they make.
00:11:44
Speaker
Why do they buy the cars that they buy? Why do they live in the house that they live in? Why are they in the jobs that they're in? When you understand that, when you understand their values and what is important to your clients, then you can connect with them on that level of values. Then you can demonstrate to them, you know what, you and I, we believe in the same things. We believe that similar things matter in the world
00:12:12
Speaker
And that is such a much deeper connection that then causes people to feel something about you. And they feel something so deep about your brand that they feel connected to you in a way that they otherwise wouldn't ever feel connected. And that's when you get people that are, you know, client evangelists. That's when you get people that say, oh my gosh, my photographers were the most amazing photographers because they got me.
00:12:37
Speaker
They understood me in a way that no one else understood me. And they don't know why. They have no idea why, you know, you get them the way that they do or how you get inside their head so well. They can't verbalize that, but they feel it. And when you get down to that emotional connection level, that's when you build a brand that is so incredibly powerful. So I like to think of it as Simon Simic's Why when his book Start With Why. That's a great book to read on this subject because
00:13:04
Speaker
He talks about, you know, what you really want to get to is the center of that why. Most brands know what they do, right? That's the product that you produce. For us, that's our photography. So we know that the product we deliver is our photos. Then most people know how they do what they do. So that's the experience that we wrap around that photography, but not very many brands know why they do what they do. And so when you understand that why,
00:13:33
Speaker
That's when everything else becomes a really powerful brand experience for your clients.
Identifying and Connecting with Ideal Clients
00:13:40
Speaker
And if anybody's looking for a great business book to read, start with why is certainly a good one. I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes. But Aaron, could you tell us a little bit about, you know, where to start when it comes to figuring out people's why? So again, the demographic information being important, but that's, like you said, typically where people stop. So how do we get a couple layers deeper in figuring out, you know, why people, let's say drive the cars that they drive?
00:14:09
Speaker
Yes, that's a great question because that is really where the hard work comes in. The reason why most people don't understand the why or the values is because it's more difficult to get there and so it's not as much of a natural progression. So there's an exercise that I give other creatives that I think is a really helpful place to start. So first,
00:14:27
Speaker
Write down five to seven of your favorite clients that you have ever gotten to work with in the past. If you got to work with them over and over again, you would 100% do it. If you are in a place where you're just starting out and you don't have five to seven clients that you love,
00:14:45
Speaker
then think about friends or family or people in your network that if you did get to work with them, you would absolutely love it. So write down those names instead. Oh, yeah. So I do have a question about, especially as people first get started. And I really think that this is an important activity for people to go through.
00:15:03
Speaker
at the very beginning of their career, maybe even before they've ever shot a wedding or served a client. But I know for us starting out, when we were first taking work, there were a couple clients that we had going into the wedding or going into the design process thinking that maybe they wouldn't quite fit our definition of an ideal client. But then coming out the other side of that experience being like, no, this was awesome. We loved working with them. How do we make room for that growth, especially early on in our careers?
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question because when you're early on, you do find yourself in a place where you're like, well, I don't have five to seven favorite clients. I haven't had very many clients to begin with. Well, the good news is that you are in a phase of discovery and so it's not.
00:15:49
Speaker
so critical for you for every single one of your clients to be ideal clients and i color i do clients dream is by the way so if i start saying dream is that's why i love this word dream is because it makes me feel like my clients are much more personal in fact we have a name for ideal client her name is emma and she's a really wonderful lady but when you're in those first years of business having. You know a full roster of nothing but dream is isn't as important as getting experience so
00:16:17
Speaker
Do as much work as you possibly can with as many different types of clients as you possibly can. That's what we did in those first years of business and I'm incredibly thankful for that because in order to understand who it is that you're perfect for and who's perfect for you, you need to know who's not perfect for you. So, work with a lot of different types of people, a lot of different types of personalities and you're going to quickly understand who was a good fit and who was not.
00:16:43
Speaker
take it one step further and start writing down and studying and figuring out why those people were perfect and why certain people were not once you.
00:16:53
Speaker
Start thinking through and being really intentional about this process Then your ideal client is probably going to become more clear even more quickly So even though you may not be able to have your perfect ideal client You know avatar written out or your profile perfectly dialed in in the first year your business That's probably not going to happen for a number of years the earlier you start the process of being intentional about discovering who your ideal client is the better and
00:17:20
Speaker
because you're gonna be armed with information more early on that is then going to lead you to your dreamies more quickly. So if you're in that place where you're writing down five to seven of your favorite clients, so let's get back to the exercise. What I recommend doing from there is take a look at that list of names and if you have more names, write down as many as possible because the more information you have, the better. Write down next to those names one of these three letters. So the first letter is P.
00:17:50
Speaker
And that's for profitable. So which one of these clients was profitable for you? And I don't mean which one of these paid you the most money ever, but which ones paid you your asking price? No questions asked. So put a P next to their names. The second letter is C and that's for connection. So did you have
Client Profitability and Growth Strategy
00:18:10
Speaker
a life-giving connection with this client? Did you love the work that you produced with them?
00:18:15
Speaker
Did they bring out the artist in you? Was there just that connection there that made it a really life-giving experience?
00:18:22
Speaker
The third letter is R and that's for referrals. So did this client bring you more business? Did they talk about you and refer you to other people? For photographers, this could also mean vendors. So did you work with vendors that have given you more business in the future because of this client? So PCR, write down those letters next to those names and some names might have no letters, some names might have multiple letters.
00:18:50
Speaker
and see which ones have more letters next to their names because those clients are not only life-giving for you, but they're good for your business. They are the ones that you really wanna pay attention to, especially if they have the three letters next to their names, those are super dreamies. They're the ones that you need to take to dinner and buy a bottle of wine and find out everything you can about them because they are the ones that will move your business forward.
00:19:16
Speaker
I think this is just a spectacular way to break down ideal client because there's so many different – I mean there's clients out there that maybe you really enjoyed working with but they didn't pay you your asking price or especially as you're first getting started, you're just realizing that people like that typically are trying to get a deal or a bargain and so maybe they're not so good for your business. So I think that this is just such a wise way to figure out
00:19:41
Speaker
who it is that you should be trying to go after. I also really appreciated what you said about how important experience is when you're first getting started. And so that might lead to some tougher clients or clients that you realize aren't a good fit, but at least you get that experience in realizing that they're not a good fit.
Shared Values vs. Identical Interests
00:20:01
Speaker
So are there any steps that you recommend people take after they go through these letters PCR?
00:20:07
Speaker
Yes, definitely. So once you look at all these letters and you identify who your ideal clients are, then these are the people that you want to start to study. And I do recommend that you start at the surface level. Now, the word that I use for the surface characteristics is weirds.
00:20:24
Speaker
And this comes from a book by Seth Godin. It's not a book that anyone really has ever heard of, but he wrote a book called We're All Weird. And honestly, I don't even know if he publishes it anymore. But it's so perfect for this conversation because he talks about weirds as the things that you choose to do with your time and the things you choose to do with your money.
00:20:47
Speaker
So if you're sitting at home on a Saturday afternoon, what do you choose to do with your time? Do you choose to make a meal? Do you watch TV? Do you go shopping? Do you hang out with a friend? And the more specific you get with those things, the more information we can learn about you. So if you make dinner, what do you make? Do you make, do you cook Thai food? Do you make your great grandmother's meatball recipe? When you watch TV, what do you watch? Do you watch documentaries? Do you watch comedies?
00:21:16
Speaker
that information tells us about who you are. And we can then start learning about what matters to you based on what it is you do with your time and with your money, especially with your money. When you are spending money on things, that really tells us what matters to you, right? Yeah, for sure. So start learning these things about your clients. What are their surface weirds that are very specific to them? That's interesting. And this is also something that you should start learning about yourself.
00:21:44
Speaker
What are your weirds that are interesting to you? So for example, Jeff and I have a couple of scooters. So when we came home from Singapore, we had traveled Vietnam, we traveled Thailand, and we fell in love with scooters. And so we came home and we bought a couple of scooters. And so that's one of our weirds. We ride around town going to Happy Hour on our scooters. And that's something that our clients learned about us. In fact, I'm drinking out of a mug with a scooter on it that one of our clients gave us because it's one of our weirds.
00:22:11
Speaker
Jeff has a bourbon collection. He's really into bourbon. That's one of his weirds. We fly Delta everywhere we go. We're kind of crazy Delta fans. Like, people know that about us. And so people connect with us. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So that's a weird of ours. And weirds are those things that your friends and family say, oh my gosh, that is totally you. That's your thing. So what are your things? And then what are your clients' things?
00:22:39
Speaker
This is the first time I'm hearing about that book by Seth Godin. I'm a big Seth Godin fan. So really anything of his is good. So I'm going to have to check that one out. And if I do find it, if it is still being published, I'll make sure to put it in the show notes. I do have a couple of questions about weirds in general. I can totally see how those are things that people would connect with. But what we've noticed is that maybe there is a fine line between sharing about yourself in a way that builds your brand versus just sharing random stuff about yourself.
00:23:08
Speaker
And the way we see this played out in web design, at least, is through a random list of things I love. So it's like, I love polle and sweatpants and things like that. And lattes and candles and dogs. Yeah, exactly.
00:23:23
Speaker
To a certain extent, part of the problem with lists like that is they do tend to be generic and not as much. And the weirds that you're talking about are certainly a bit more specific, you know, like the scooter thing, especially in the story behind it, all of that makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to get at is where's that line between, you know, sharing stuff about yourself that builds your brand and resonates with your ideal client versus just, you know, sharing stuff about yourself, if that makes sense.
00:23:51
Speaker
That is a great question. So that is where values really come into play because the weirds that you want to pick that are big for you, that you want your clients to connect with, the reason your clients will connect with those weirds is because why you do them and why they do what they do. It's because your values underneath both of those weirds are the same.
00:24:18
Speaker
So like you said the scooters there's a story behind them that's why the scooters matter because we traveled to southeast asia and we spent two months traveling and we. Road scooters in thailand and we wrote scooters in vietnam.
00:24:32
Speaker
And when we tell that story to our clients, they say, oh my gosh, we spent two months in Paris, or I grew up going to Italy, or they love the travel and the adventure side as well, even though they don't have a couple of scooters, right? So on the outward surface level, our weirds are very different from our ideal clients. But when you get down to values, they're the same. That's where the magic comes in. And that's why I feel so,
00:25:01
Speaker
Excited by your clients like i literally have chills right now thinking about this because this is where you connect with people that you never thought it would be possible to connect with so you might actually have so many more ideal clients that you don't realize your ideal clients until you start digging down to that values level.
00:25:19
Speaker
Let me give some examples. Let's use the example of cooking on a Sunday afternoon. Let's say that you love bringing your friends and family together every Sunday for a meal and you love cooking for everybody. The reason you love that is because you get to connect with your friends and family in a way that you otherwise wouldn't get to connect with if you didn't cook. Let's say your clients love college football.
00:25:43
Speaker
And they go to their alums college football games every single game they have season tickets and the reason that they do that is because they connect with their friends and family in a way that they otherwise wouldn't get to connect with if they weren't in the college football or they come and watch games together with their friends and family. Those are very different weirds on the outside right cooking in college football but on the inside it's the same values and that's why you get along so well.
Building Client Relationships
00:26:12
Speaker
So that's why it's really important. So when you start understanding your weirds and you start understanding the weirds of your clients and figuring out, okay, a lot of my clients tend to love hiking and backpacking or they're super into fitness or my clients are really into their foodies. Like a lot of my clients are into food and wine. That's interesting. Start trying to understand why they're into those things. And here's the best way to do it. So how Jeff and I did this and how he got to know our ideal clients so, so, so, so well,
00:26:42
Speaker
is that for years, we gave free engagement sessions with every single one of our weddings. And the reason was that so we could build relationships with our couples. And after those engagement sessions, we went to dinner with every single couple. And those dinners were very, very intentional. We were spending money, we were buying the dinners, so we made sure that we got as much value out of them as we possibly could. So we had really intentional conversations. We asked questions about their families. We asked questions about
00:27:13
Speaker
you know, what did they do growing up? What matters to them about their families? Why are they getting married? What did they love about each other? What did they do with their free time? And we made it very conversational. It wasn't like an interrogation or anything like that. Taking notes at the dinner table. Exactly. We're like, uh-huh, tell me more. No, it was very, it was a conversation, but we built such deep relationships with our couples and we learned so much about them that our brand,
00:27:41
Speaker
began to evolve and speak to what was important to them. So find out ways that you can do that in your own business. We're photographers and engagement session was our solution. We don't do that any longer. We don't feel a need for that these days. But are there ways that you can connect with your couples and make it a part of the experience? Provide them a great experience while learning about your couples at the same time.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's such a great idea because of what you just said. I mean, at the very least, it just provides a great experience for them, you know, something that they probably weren't expecting. But then at the it also provides you an opportunity to learn more about them. So I love that idea. We also included when we were shooting engagement sessions with each of our collections, really just because we thought it made the wedding day that much easier. But looking back, I wish we had done something like this. And we probably would have arrived at
00:28:31
Speaker
who are ideal client was a lot sooner by using that time intentionally. I do have a question on how this plays out too in your different brands. The Youngrens is more of your high-end brand, right? That's like the clients you and Jeff are shooting and working with very personally.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yes, definitely. So I'm assuming that at least some of the examples that we've talked about really do apply well to the young grins. What about some of your other brands where maybe you're not as personally involved?
Brand Strategy and Market Segmentation
00:29:01
Speaker
I don't know if that's the right way to put it because of course you're involved in your other brands, but maybe it's not so much the faces of Aaron and Jeff.
00:29:08
Speaker
But I know you have an associate photographer brand and then you have the commercial business brand. So how do these things play out in brands that aren't necessarily as relational as the young grids? Yes, definitely. So let me back up a little bit and explain kind of the evolution of the brands. And it might help put context around the story. So after we started traveling a ton for our business, we went full time, we're traveling and shooting weddings, and we're having so much fun.
00:29:37
Speaker
Very quickly, we also start doing workshops for other photographers, education, speaking, and that sort of thing. We're on the road constantly during this period. And actually, up until a few years, we were on the road constantly, until we had Sweet Baby James. Sure. Then we cut back our travel, which is why we're talking to people. Travel's still fun with kids. We just went away with Jack, but it's just a little different. Whole different body. Not as sustainable over multiple weekends or back to back to back trips.
00:30:06
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not as motivated to get on airplanes these days. I agree. We came to a point where we decided to expand our business. We bought a local commercial photography studio called Bauman Photographers, and then we expanded into an associate wedding photography brand. There's a long story behind it. This wasn't a part of the plan, but this is how it happened, and it's really great.
00:30:29
Speaker
We went from just Jeff and I and our cat to three brands, a team, a staff of photographers, an office space. You know, it was a very, very quick, rough and dirty transition. And we've learned so much during these last years. Holy cow. In fact, if you want to hear like really behind the scenes stories of what it's like to run these businesses, we launched a podcast called Creative Rising. And on those episodes, I record the behind the scenes stories of these studios. So check it out if you want to
00:30:58
Speaker
hear what it's really like to run a photography business. And I'll link to that in the show notes for anybody looking to a link straight to that podcast.
00:31:07
Speaker
You're amazing. That would be awesome. So when it comes to this ideal client concept and multiple brands, it really was so super helpful because we needed to create a different ideal client profile for each one of these brands and go after a different market. And you're right. It wasn't Jeff and I as the face of these businesses. So cloven kin, we had to make into
00:31:31
Speaker
you know this associate brand with multiple photographers it had to be a brand that stood on its own not around a personality and so the profile really became very centered on the target market that we are going after and not so much on connecting with that you know one on one personality of a person so. That brand we actually we have different like.
00:31:52
Speaker
essentially are position statements, but we have different statements for each one of our clients. So the young grins, our weddings are called black ties and ballrooms, and that immediately tells you what kinds of weddings we want to shoot.
00:32:06
Speaker
Cloven Kin is gray suits and gardens because they are more your middle of the road, outdoor, sweet garden weddings that are here in San Diego. And then bomb and photographers does shoot some weddings and those weddings are called designers and divas. So they are completely opposite of what we do with the young grins and Cloven Kin. Sure. They're more of your like high fashion, high style, you know, sexy, dramatic produced kind of look. Whereas we're traditional, classic, emotional. And
00:32:33
Speaker
The same goes with the commercial side of things too. That ideal client is a corporate client. It's very different than a wedding client, but we've honed in on those profiles very, very specifically so that we can go after the right people. That's awesome. For each of these things, as you're coming up with the position statements, do you find that – I mean something that we found just in terms of going through the ideal client process is that our ideal clients aren't necessarily ourselves. Do you find that
00:33:03
Speaker
maybe your ideal client resonates with you a little bit more on a personal basis in a brand like the Youngrens than it does in, you know, bombing photography, let's say. And really, you know, as you're coming up with position statements or I'm sorry, thinking through ideal client for bombing photography and clothing kin, what are some ways that I guess you find it more challenging because they're not necessarily people that are like you?
00:33:29
Speaker
Yes, definitely. It was definitely more of a challenge to work through those ideal client profiles because we didn't have ourselves to lean on. We didn't have our own likes and preferences to lean on. That being said, Cloth & Kin is a very similar style to the Youngrens, just at a lower price point.
Diverse Client Profiles and Values
00:33:45
Speaker
The profile was adjusted for folks that were more in that middle-of-the-road market versus the high-end weddings that Jeff and I do for the Youngrens.
00:33:54
Speaker
So that one was a little bit more of a natural extension because the photography style is very similar and a lot of the values are still very similar. Clothing and clients are still classic and traditional. Their style is more of the outdoor, sweet, whimsical, bohemian sort of estate weddings.
00:34:13
Speaker
One thing I do want to say to speak to that when you said, you know, your idol client is not you. That is something I want to bring up because this is something that I do see creatives do quite often and
00:34:25
Speaker
It's not necessarily a mistake. It just means that you haven't gone far enough in the process. So what I see a lot of folks do is they do the PCR exercise and they look at all these weirds and they start looking at all the values and they say, Oh my gosh, my client and I are so similar. Like we share so many things.
00:34:45
Speaker
We do the same things, we like the same things, we have the same hobbies and interests, we believe the same things matter. So my ideal client is actually a version of myself. Or my ideal client is who I was three years ago when I was looking for a wedding coordinator. Well, the problem with that is you start filtering all of your decisions through your own brain, through your own decision making process. And what can happen, especially when it comes to pricing,
00:35:12
Speaker
Is that you will start making decisions in your business according to what you like and what you think you would do. Whereas your ideal client will actually make decisions and make purchase decisions very differently. So you could be very resistant to raising your prices.
00:35:27
Speaker
because you yourself wouldn't pay those prices. So it's very easy to undervalue yourself if you believe that your ideal client is you. Jeff and I could never afford the prices that we charge for our photography, but are we worth it? Yes, we will charge every penny, but we cannot spend 10 to $20,000 on photography. So we have had to get outside of our own heads and into the heads of our ideal clients and understand what they would do. So it's very important.
00:35:57
Speaker
on that same note, I kind of touched on this earlier a little bit. If you're believing that your ideal client is just a version of yourself, then you could actually miss out on a lot of really cool relationships because like I said, your ideal client could look very different than you, but do different things but for the same reasons. You could just kind of discount someone or be like, I'm not sure they're really ideal for me without digging down into the surface and really getting to know them.
00:36:25
Speaker
We've had a lot of ideal clients that are nothing like us except for the fact that we believe the same things. And that makes it a great relationship for us. And they've been very life-giving, profitable, wonderful relationships that we've built because we've been open to that value conversation.
00:36:41
Speaker
And I gotta imagine that too, as that translates over to the copy that you're using in different places, marketing, whether it be social media or on your website, it makes it a little bit more dynamic and a little bit more meaningful than just saying, oh, I really like scooters. So I gotta imagine that
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean you're able to make these connections let's say because you don't have to be so on the nose and saying you know i really like sunday night dinners. You know because like you said that that college football couple that you know is sunday night dinners in particular might not resonate with them but as soon as you start diving into the reason why you like sunday night dinners all the sudden you can make that connection that you want otherwise make.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Why do you think you see so many people gravitate to coming up with an ideal client that is like them in this industry? I think it's just a natural progression. It's a very easy place to land. And I honestly think that people just aren't aware of the deeper information. And so that's why I'm so passionate about educating on this topic because
00:37:45
Speaker
people just don't know to take it one step farther. And I do read lots of articles that have advice that says things like, think about yourself and kind of create a version of yourself. So I actually do see that advice out there, which to me is sad, but I think that it's just, it's a natural place to land and it's easy to filter things through your own head.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I think I think maybe there's like a misperception that in order to have a successful business, it has to be around a personal brand. And you know, you can have a brand like I'm sure Obama photography is still relational, even though it might not be personal in the same way that the young ones are.
00:38:21
Speaker
So, I gotta imagine too that sometimes we look to really personal, more influencer type brands and then think that, oh, we have to talk a lot about ourselves in order to be successful or it has to be a lot about us in order to connect with people. Definitely. With bomb and photographers, our client is not, we're not building a relationship with our client nearly in the same way as we are with weddings. Sure.
00:38:46
Speaker
So our clients are administrators. Our clients are lawyers. Our clients are the event planner for a corporate event. And what they care about, what they value in that product is speed, efficiency, high quality. They want someone that's on it. They want someone that's excellent. And excellence is the big value there.
00:39:04
Speaker
So we don't need to demonstrate that we're excellent through talking about lattes. Like we just demonstrate our excellence in the service that we provide in our branding, in our quality of photography. So understanding how that value system works with your particular client in your particular product. What do they care about when it comes to your product and why, why are they connecting to you in that value, your particular brand and business?
Guiding Brands in Client Discovery
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's all I mean, so much practical information in here from the very start, you know, I think this is going to give people a lot to work through. Do you have this information condensed anywhere? So for somebody who kind of wants to work through this as an activity, you know, and we'll course include a lot of this in the show notes. But is there something that they can like, is there a download? Is there a ebook some sort of something that they can work through? Yes, definitely. So
00:39:55
Speaker
We do have a free training on this topic. If you go to dreamyclass.com, and dreamy is spelled with an I-E instead of a Y, so dreamyclass.com, that's where you can take a free training. And that unpacks everything I talked about in a very linear, succinct way. So you can go through it and really just understand this whole concept and just these steps you can take to really dig down into the values. And then we also have a course called Discover Your Ideal Client.
00:40:22
Speaker
And this course just unpacks everything. You get a positioning statement. You come out with a profile. You come out with a branding package. You come out with a lot of quick copy guides. And so this is the kind of thing that my students take to people like you that they take this to their graphic designers. They take this to the web designers. And this is how they build those really powerful brands.
00:40:44
Speaker
So this is the precursor to going through a rebrand. So if you're thinking about a rebrand, updating a website, anything like that, this course is something you absolutely should take before you do that because that process is going to be a really wonderful, valuable and effective process for you.
00:41:01
Speaker
I want to add how much thinking through those sorts of things, and especially in the way that you talked about today, it really does go a long way in creating just a more dynamic, engaging, compelling website instead of, again, and if you're listening, you just feel like maybe your copy on your website or the copy that you're using in social media is just kind of flat. I think that this would be a great – whether it's the free training or the course would be
00:41:27
Speaker
great to go through just to understand some of these values better so that your language or the language that you're using on your website isn't so superficial. So I'm excited to go through some of this stuff I think because I think it's always helpful to go through but if you're if you find that you're kind of just maybe using the same sort of phrases that everybody else is and and you're not sure you know who's listening then I think that this is a great training to go through.
00:41:54
Speaker
Definitely. My students have come out on the other side with these incredible brands that just speak volumes. For example, one of my students, Erica Mills, check out her website. She's wonderful. She redid her whole website and she redid her bio. And I helped her with it. I coached her through it. And we came up with this story about all of the photographs that lined her grandparents' hallway. You know those hallways that are covered in photos?
00:42:20
Speaker
She told a story about those photographs and it's this beautiful story about legacy and about generations and at the end of it she says can I take your eight by ten photograph and I like it choked up thinking about it because it's just so beautiful but when she came to that story it was so authentically her that she was like this just unlocked everything for me.
00:42:43
Speaker
Like it just felt so genuine and authentic. It just took a little while to get to that story and to communicate it. And not like you said, be so on the nose, but at the end of it, come to a place of values. This is what matters to me and this is what matters to you. So let's make this thing happen together.
Conclusion and Resources
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. I'll have to have to include a link to that as well, for sure. Before we end the podcast, though, I definitely you just launched a podcast, not super recently, but in the last, it was this year, right? Yeah, yeah, this year, this year. So tell us a little bit about that podcast. What are the sorts of things you're talking about during those episodes? And of course, where we can find it.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah. So my podcast is called Creative Rising and you can check it out at creativerising.com on Apple podcasts or any of your podcast players. And it's a show about what it's really like to start a photography business. And it's honest. That's my keyword for creative rising. So I do practical trainings on that podcast. You'll hear more about the ideal client, but also things like I'm going to do an episode on how to run an associate program since we're pretty good at that these days. Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
But in the middle of that, I also have done a lot of storytelling episodes. So very NPR style where I turn on the microphone and we record what actually happens behind the scenes here at our business. And what you can expect to find is that no matter what stage or level of business you're at, we all battle the same things.
00:44:12
Speaker
Whether you're first starting out or you're 13 years and have multiple brands or you're 25 years and you're, you know, doing something you love. We all face the same creative battles. We all have self doubt. We all experienced self-sabotage. We all experience just disappointment and failure. It's a part of the process. And so I tell those stories, our stories and the stories of other people in a way that helps us all feel like we're in this together and you're not so alone.
00:44:41
Speaker
So that's what you can expect from my podcast. And I've had so much fun with it, and I can't wait to put out more episodes.
00:44:47
Speaker
Well, I know it sounds like this this might be one of the episodes where I have just the most links to, you know, all sorts of different resources. So creative rising will definitely be one of those links within the show notes. So check that out for sure and go give that podcast a listen. Is there anywhere else? I mean, so we have, you know, young grins, cloven kin, bomb photography, but is it specifically if people want to kind of follow you and and what's going on or you and Jeff, where should they go?
00:45:13
Speaker
So, the best place is our Instagram feed at the Young Grins. If you are a professional photographer or you're on your way to becoming one, we do have a Facebook group that you can join that is just for photographers alone and that's a great place also to hear from other really amazing creatives and to get any of our resources that we're putting out there. So, that's a resource as well. But at the Young Grins is the best place to join our conversation.
00:45:38
Speaker
Awesome. And all those links will be in the show notes. Aaron, I want to thank you especially being that you're on specific time for getting up bright and early and recording this with me. I'm excited to share this with the Brancetbook audience. I think this episode is just so full of practical information. And just as you were talking through things, I was just, I felt like there were light bulb moments, you know, just thinking through, especially the stuff that you were talking about around values. So thanks for joining me.
00:46:04
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This was such a fun conversation. I am smiling from ear to ear right now. Good. And I just am so grateful for all your wonderful questions. Thanks, and we'll have to have you on again. Thanks so much. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
00:46:38
Speaker
you