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ADH'G' - ADHD 07
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In this episode, George explores his own experiences with ADHD, archaeology and why the ADHD BCE podcast means more than just chatting to interesting people.
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- For rough transcripts of this episode, go to: https://www.archpodnet.com/adhdbce/07
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Transcript
Introduction to The Archaeology Podcast Network
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Motivation for the Podcast and ADHD-BCE
00:00:17
Speaker
So hello everyone and welcome to episode 7. In this episode I'm flying solo because and well I want to talk about ADHD-BCE and the reason why I wanted to do the first podcast in the first place. and It's something I've been wanting to do for a little while so if not now, where when?
Exploring Archaeology and Neurodiversity
00:00:38
Speaker
So I'm going to dive straight in with this. I guess what I really want to do is so share my experiences with and views on archaeology and neurodiversity and and also the potential I see in both. So the the archaeologist in me i wants to share and continue to learn all these fascinating details about the ancient past and the neurodivergent and he wants to shout from the rooftops about how humanity has benefited it from neurodiversity. But it's it's all well and good me feeling passionate and positive.
ADHD Experiences and Archaeology's Positive Impact
00:01:12
Speaker
But one thing I've learned over the years is that other people don't know what's going on inside my nervous system. So
00:01:19
Speaker
I'm going to attempt to share my love and enthusiasm and hopefully show what I hope this podcast can do, ah which is to help others be proud of who we are and kindle some optimism for the future. To do this, I'll have to get personal about archaeology and of course ADHD. And if we're okay for time, I might introduce a new idea I've had, but we're goingnna we're going to see how we are for time. um So what I'm going to do is talk about how ADHD affected me growing up and how archaeology flipped my little world the right way up. ah The reason I'm doing this exercise is is to hopefully highlight so some common ADHD experiences there and explain how I've ended up working with the fantastic peeps at the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Rural Upbringing and ADHD Development
00:02:07
Speaker
As a disclaimer though, we've all got our own unique flavour. So if you're on the spectrum, you may have different traits to myself, and you're certainly going to have had some different, but some similar, but many different experiences. There are bands that have affected how you've developed into the wonderful human you are today, and as it did with me, and as it is with everyone. Our environments,
00:02:34
Speaker
that they massively impact how we show up in the world. So so please don't think I'm speaking for all neurodivergence. I'm simply using myself as an example of an ADHD. In fact, I should clarify that it's not just ADHD. I've i've i've also been diagnosed with ADHD twice now. um and as um I'm 100% certain about that, but I'm also 100% certain that I'm autistic. I've spoken to quite a few professionals about it.
00:03:02
Speaker
and I'm pretty sure I have dyscalculia or dyscalculia depending on how you're supposed to say it. I haven't got a clue. I suffer with time blindness and I'm pretty sure I'm dyspraxic as well. I'm certainly incredibly clumsy. I'm one of those people that can be holding a cup of tea one minute and then it'll be smashed on the floor because I forgot I was holding a cup of tea.
00:03:23
Speaker
And I'm also all thumbs, but so put me on a sports pitch or something. I'm um' awesome. So I don't get it. It's a bit of a weird one. yeah ive just ah Yeah, with all that, I'm not really sure where it all begins and where it ends,
Childhood Reflections: Technology vs. Rural Life
00:03:36
Speaker
to be honest. It's it's just lots of fun and mostly frustrating. Anyway.
00:03:42
Speaker
So let's just fly back now to the archaeological age of 1981 because the environment is crucial here and that's where in 1981 is where I, yeah this well this particular ADHD was born, into a farming family actually. I now know that they're all massively on the spectrum as well, all undiagnosed and some in denial, some slowly opening up to the concept.
00:04:07
Speaker
actually I just want to quickly share ah a recurring thought that accompanies me through life actually. It's this thing of being brought up in what is now a previous century in what was ah a very rural location.
Dopamine Deficiency and Self-Forgiveness
00:04:22
Speaker
I feel like I'm part of a generation that lived more closely to our ancestors way of life than my children's generation doing and there was no internet no phones no nothing really we got but the curly wired phone in the kitchen and there was a bit of tv there was no gaming i literally spent my childhood meandering through nature and entertaining myself which,
00:04:47
Speaker
didn't always lead to the best choices. Although I now understand that climbing on the rooftops and helping myself to alg alcohol and cigarettes and things like that was more a result of dopamine deficiency and than a reflection of me as a terrible little shite.
Daydreaming and Neurodivergence
00:05:08
Speaker
I'm learning to forgive myself.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, how many ADHDers have they've made so many of those apparently stupid decisions and in the name of put impulsivity? So I think think if I can forgive myself for being a little wayward when I was younger, I think you should too, then we all should really, we need to move on.
00:05:29
Speaker
So we're yeah, growing up in the middle of nowhere with the no one to play with was it's kind of inevitable, maybe inevitably like led to some serious daydreaming.
Educational Struggles and Evolution
00:05:41
Speaker
I mentioned this so because a lot of neurodivergent people are ah daydreamers and This can sometimes be the result of some traumas or or overwhelm a board and more cpts data many of us develop and it it can be wonderful and it can be dreadful and in in my case i feel pretty deep in some of the daydreams and in all honesty i,
00:06:03
Speaker
I only recently have been able to get them under control and and that is to say to so develop the ability to step out of fantasy and spend more time in reality, yeah which turns out to be less frightening as an adult with a diagnosis and self-awareness. Tip of the cap to Kathy Charlton, who's already been on the podcast. Thank you, Kathy.
00:06:26
Speaker
I think as was the case with I think the vast majority of ADHD is in mainstream education in in the 1980s and 90s. I found it to be a total nightmare. I recently saw an old photograph of myself as a five-year-old in ah in a busy classroom and it must have been in the first day or so or something. then But honestly, I felt for that kid. It was written all over my face. It was hell.
00:06:50
Speaker
know That little boy's face, it just says, get me out of here. I can't remember because honestly, my working in memory is truly awful. But I can imagine that that little boy was wishing nothing more than to be so transported out of all that noise and emotions and all the balloon and back to the woods and fields of her home where where it was peaceful. I mean, how lucky was I to to have a home like that to escape to? I actually did that a few times as well.
00:07:16
Speaker
but Yeah, other than playing football and and falling head over heels in love with a girl who later became the mother of my children, I i hated school. These days I dropped my kids off at two fantastic schools and I'm blown away by how much they enjoy it. They play outside and do the forest school things and plenty of sports and interactive learning.
Returning to a Supportive Home Environment
00:07:39
Speaker
They learn in all sorts of interesting ways and the teachers are encouraging them every step of the way it's so different the old sit still and focus on the chalkboard for six hours that ruined mine and millions of others younger years it it was not pretty.
00:07:56
Speaker
We weren't suited to it. and Honestly, yeah I can't remember completing more than a couple of assignments through school either. I can remember being incredibly overwhelmed by all the other kids running around, falling out, making out, shouting, screaming, bullying each other, didn't bullying me. It was frankly horrible. And no I know that all divergence have that experience. And no you know that's that's a wonderful thing. I'm i'm pleased about that.
00:08:22
Speaker
but say yeah do Even though tons of neurodivergent people excel at school, many of us didn't, especially back then.
Inspiration from National Geographic and Academic Journey
00:08:32
Speaker
so yeah in In the end, I left school when I was about 15, although I hadn't really attended so the previous year or so.
00:08:41
Speaker
Going back to the farm where the animals and a handful of family members let me mooch around helping out and daydreaming was the biggest relief I'd experienced at that age. It was freedom. it In hindsight, it I was ridiculously lucky. I think if I'd been an urban kid, I i suspect I may have fallen into the trap a lot of ADHDs I've experienced.
00:09:04
Speaker
life on the streets or in prisons seem prone to. My heart goes out to them all. they did and They needed nature, they needed space, they needed time. I was so lucky. But anyway, you know, so throughout school, i I barely read a page and ah developed that common ADHD of myself that went something like, I'm dumb, I'm useless, I'm inadequate, I'm lazy, I'm a terrible person. yeah And I think after years of feeling like ah of a fish swimming the wrong way in a particularly overcrowded river. I was, you know, I was used to being overwhelmed and burnt out and and exhausted. And I stopped playing football, which it i did I'd used to sort of self-regulate, you know, go off and play and use your body and be creative. It was great, it was great really. But once I stopped, her you know, i
00:10:01
Speaker
I started daydreaming again and I think all lot more intensely and I think most of it was fictional scenarios where you know everything had suddenly worked out for me or I'd find a way to reach my potential and everyone would see that I'm actually a really decent person or a great guy or talented or whatever it was.
00:10:21
Speaker
there were tons of story ideas as well. I did a lot of lot of writing or attempted to write because learning how to write wasn't possible for me. I hadn't paid attention at school, so there's no chance of me becoming a novelist or anything like that. I certainly wasn't going to make a living out of it. But so yeah, i think I think the daydreaming was really a big thing because it inhibited any sort of development at that stage. It was just escapism. It's a bit like gaming or falling into the probably less healthy coping mechanisms. you know Escapism is i think it's necessary at times when you're undiagnosed and you're struggling.
00:11:05
Speaker
um But at that time, I ah got lucky. you know and I think who I was working on the farm a little bit and not trying to hide away from the world. and then I found the collection of National Geographic magazines in my grandparents living room it was and I used to go in there and it was the first time anything apart from the odd English or history a lesson ah at school I think that was the first time I actually took an academic interest if of any kind and I remember all this information this archaeology going into my head and it just triggered
00:11:50
Speaker
and this fascination, that' been fun with these it's still with me now.
University Life: Burnout and Thriving
00:11:53
Speaker
It became what is my special interest and and that special interest is a term we spectrum peeps hold with reverence. you know we yeah It's dinosaurs or archeology or whatever it is, it becomes our main thing in our little world.
00:12:14
Speaker
but yeah so carrying on with that at at the time and when I started when I found archaeology and I do see it that way that I found it it sort of rescued me really but but I'd got no academic qualifications whatsoever at that time but this is probably a tip of the cap to their hyper focus and the potential that ADHDs have. I went from having nothing whatsoever in terms of academic qualifications and within I think I was in about three years. I was a Liverpool uni and I was probably the proudest person ever to wear the ancient history and archaeology hoodie. you know it was ah It was a whirlwind turnaround. like
00:12:57
Speaker
I can't remember the route. I'm not trying to think about the route. I remember it being very stressful because it wasn't a straightforward route either. I had to get bits of qualifications ah to get onto to an access course at Derby Uni and then next year onto Liverpool.
00:13:14
Speaker
But just going back to when archaeology entered the scene at that point, I i want to say how amazing that experience was. because Honestly, I never really had an interest outside of i know football and my imagination. But I think just finding the the subject interesting, it actually meant more than that. it it turned my focus around from a really poor view of myself to being swept along with excitement. But yeah, listen, I think we're just going to have a really, really super quick break. And then I'm going to breeze through the next bit because I'm really keen to get to the point why I got to this point of doing this podcast. So see you in a second.
Archaeological Digs in Turkey
00:14:01
Speaker
So yeah, ah welcome back. Just carrying on from where I was. This is about archaeology now. It gave me, it was a missing piece of the puzzle. It explained to me why things are, well, think the way things are. How do I say that?
00:14:17
Speaker
It explained why things are the way they are. and So this sort gave perspective, which I'd not had before. The world had never really made sense to me. doug I could see pathways from right now or the present moment all the way back through time about how we evolved and developed toolkits to head out into the world and why we had cities and wars and grudges and religions and all these things. And they will start to make more sense. and I think as it is a dysregulated young person, I found comfort and meaning and in in in the stories that archaeologists were endeavouring to piece together.
00:14:54
Speaker
and Yeah, sort of on that note, I think archaeology is a wonderful field for people on the spectrum because it's a discipline that has so many fascinating subcategories and areas to hyper focus on. And you get these really big questions and searches and wonderfully scientific And it's an honest in its approach to uncover what is essentially the truth. That's what we're looking for. and Why are we here? Who are we? What happened? It's one massive sweeping story. It is is the greatest story ever told, never told. It's unfolding digby dig by dig in labs and with cutting edge technology. yeah
00:15:34
Speaker
You can throw a lifetime into ah studying the pottery style or a language or migration or whatever takes your fancy push. You can literally dig in soil and dust and sand and then search for artifacts and information. It's a career that I think attracts many neurodivergent people.
00:15:51
Speaker
Anyway, if I was romanticising how archaeology plucked me from ADHD burnout and gave me meaning to life, by that time I was still undiagnosed and ADHD isn't the sort of neurodevelopmental disorder to or condition to where the less you skip to happily ever after, you you know don't get me wrong, those When I first got to Liverpool Uni, those first few weeks of lectures, it was like a dream. The ancient Mediterranean went into my ears like music, as did Archaeology 101, Egyptology, and all the other lectures. I definitely found my jam. But all those years of of missing out at school on a basic education, it really spiked my imposter syndrome. And all those other students were streets ahead of of me, dig you know, in all these areas, as far as I could tell anyway.
00:16:41
Speaker
and throwing some social overw overwhelm and being a fresher, and which is an experience in itself. and The wheels sort of fell off, to be honest. you know I got there, i loved it, but I think think I left by Christmas. I burnt out. I remember going home and crying like a baby and being stuck in my room for weeks.
00:17:02
Speaker
I tried to go back again, I think, the following term, but I was the following year. Anyway, I left in a spring, either the that spring or the the spring after, and I headed back to the to the farm. and but said But by then, fortunately, I'd already signed up as a volunteer for an excavation in Turkey with Doug Baird of Liverpool Uni, and he was gracious enough to to let me yeah come on the dig still, despite dropping out.
Challenges of University Return
00:17:28
Speaker
but and And honestly, those six weeks in Turkey was incredible. I struggled badly with social overwhelm, and being in close proximity with 20 odd people for weeks on end. But yeah, socially anxious people who overthink absolutely everything will do that. And I think, despite all that, the the excavation, it was it was a dream come true. I remember thinking going out into the big stinking this is a dream come true i can't believe i met.
00:17:59
Speaker
And I think that was Pinabashi, and it was way back in 2004. And it was the last season about a 10-year dig, which was essentially a multi-period site. And I was lucky that I got to excavate on a Bronze Age cesperial or cesperial, however you want to say it. And I was lucky enough to excavate a Byzantine skeleton as well. And but on the last day, we but i've got that my trowel unearthed and a too and top of an Atufian individual, which is way, way back. But it was the last day of the dig. So we called him Ufa.
00:18:30
Speaker
and Yeah, two years later, I was still out of uni, but Doug let me go out at the time on excavated site of Bonjokla Huyguk, which um turned out to be sort a much smaller precursor to the nearby Chattel Huyguk, which is definitely worth a Google.
00:18:48
Speaker
i was looking up to go back out several times i think i said seven oh eight oh nine something like that and i think it was back away when i was chatting with lectures and hanging around with them phd's and so on and turkey i ended up going back to union in two thousand and eight and I think just to to highlight the way ADHD can get in the way of an honest academic endeavor, I got through most of my second year when I went back in 08, but i was I was burning out so badly. I think by certainly by third year, I could barely read. As much as I loved archaeology, I couldn't put it into my head. I couldn't read anymore. I couldn't think about it anymore.
00:19:33
Speaker
and and I don't think I was able to study at all for the last sort of set of exams, and or pretty much any of them, the final assignments. On my dissertation, I managed to do a lot of that in about a week. I think it was it was the disastrous. I had some good study buddies, and Doug helped me out a little bit. In the end, I think I got a 2-1, so yeah I didn't fail. I did okay. but so Yeah. And and the think thing is, it this is just common ADHD thing. it It wasn't all about sort of the academics thing or or the job that you've got or the life that you've got. It's relationships and social groups. I think more than studying, and it I think when I got to graduation, I just felt like I'd
00:20:23
Speaker
failed. I hadn't but I felt like I'd failed badly and I couldn't see archaeology as a career. I thought I can't be an academic and I can't do it and I can't go off and get a job as an archaeologist because everyone's telling me how crap that is. So yeah I went back home again at the end of all that Which is, yeah, i I was emotional about it, to be honest. that i didn't yeah It felt like I had such love for archaeology, and I wanted to be an archaeologist.
ADHD Diagnosis and New Perspectives
00:21:00
Speaker
Yet, something was stopping me becoming an archaeologist, and I didn't know what it was. I just thought, you know, you don't question that. you did You just see yourself as a failure, is as a bad person. so yeah and And it's all just part of having a hypersensitive nervous system, to be honest. and
00:21:18
Speaker
you know, missing social cues and messing up and forgetting all these things, you build up an awful picture of yourself if you're not careful. and and we we I think most undiagnosed ADHDs have done this.
00:21:33
Speaker
So yeah, headache I went home and I headed on the farm and unfortunately I bumped into my childhood sweetheart and we had four kids in six years, which obviously it kind of took over our lives and where our unresolved trauma and issues were repeatedly hammered back and forth. But you know, I think Anyone who's got kids will tell you. It's yeah hey they's pretty full on and you don't have time for anything else. Don't be the kid to become your priorities.
00:22:05
Speaker
and But yeah, I think you probably see where this is going. By this time, I sort of had a mental breakdown when I was about 39, maybe about, what was that, 2020-ish, or something like that.
Celebrating Neurodiversity
00:22:19
Speaker
I had a big old mental breakdown and to be honest with you, it ended up being the best thing that has ever happened to me because it made me look at myself in a different way. What is going on? What on earth is going on? And I got my ADHD diagnosis. And goodness me, did that well what a moment that was. It is like,
00:22:49
Speaker
and somebody all of a sudden telling you that actually it wasn't massively your fault. It was inevitable that you you struggled and suffered with depression and anxiety and weren't able to do the things that you wanted to do or you certainly weren't able to reach your potential.
00:23:07
Speaker
But yeah, I still have that love of archaeology. and I'll always find something to read or a documentary to watch or follow pages on social media where there's a really good ADHD community, by the way. yeah I found that really helpful and getting all that self-awareness and becoming part of a community. i am part you know There's a small amount of us and we've all had similar experiences. that Just that knowledge alone is getting emotional just thinking about it to be honest with you. it's
00:23:49
Speaker
It's a game changer. You have to rewire your brain. you know You have to relearn everything and look back with compassion and develop self-love and life just keeps getting easier and easier, the more awareness you have. And that's why we want to talk about the positives of ADHD and autism and neurodiversity is because We need to hear it. We deserve to hear it because it's not all bad. We might not fit into an education system or or certain work environments, but what we can offer
00:24:27
Speaker
is different perspectives and creativity and
Influence of Neurodiversity on History and Future
00:24:32
Speaker
ingenuity. The ah inspiration for for the podcast came from seeing people say, oh, ADHD is a superpower and Einstein and Da Vinci and Newton and entrepreneurs these days, like these geniuses, they they were on the spectrum. Amazing. Well, hang on. How long has it been around? And how how how much has the spectrum influenced humanity? Would we have ever even got out of Africa without it? Would we have invented the wheel and boats and microliths and ah pyramids and but all the things we understand and how different would the world be? Would we have survived even? I don't think we would have. I think you know there's plenty of people out there saying that we need neurodiversity and
00:25:20
Speaker
And I think with with this podcast but what I really want to do is play with that and enjoy that and let people who have maybe just been diagnosed or they're undiagnosed or they've been diagnosed for years and they still feel like crap.
00:25:35
Speaker
listening to to what we're trying to do and on this podcast and hopefully hopefully if you can take away just some ah nugget of information or one of those wonderful subliminal senses of pride just take that with you because yeah we do deserve to be proud of it because and I'm not saying that we're better or worse or anything like that all I'm saying is It's been a rough ride for a lot of us and there's been a lot of negative self-talk and a lot of negative labeling. And I think if we can continue to look for better ways to express ourselves or better ways to live and find our special interests and our talents, or just be left alone, say we live in this world. And I think what I really want this podcast to do is more than to
00:26:36
Speaker
say you know this happened, that could have been and you're a neurodivergent person, we should be proud of that. I think we should just be excited by it as well. you know Archaeology explains so much about why the world is the way it is, as does history.
00:26:56
Speaker
i think with I'm trying to put it in words. I'm sorry, I'm a little bit emotional about this because this this podcast is an expression of how I feel and and I'm not on my own so please be proud to be neurodivergent and be understanding of neurodivergence and be optimistic if you can because I think neurodivergent people have had a massive impact on the way the world is today and I think we've got a massive massive role to play in the future as well
00:27:34
Speaker
So thanks very much for listening and listen out for future episodes because we have got some fantastic guests coming on and I'm going to be throwing myself back into some daydreaming go or at least I'm going to be employing my imagination to do some solo episodes on what it would be like to be neurodivergent at certain places and times and it's going to be a lot of fun. So yeah,
00:28:00
Speaker
You lot take care of yourselves and I'll look forward to seeing you again. Take care. Bye bye.
00:28:16
Speaker
The Archaeology Podcast Network is 10 years old this year. Our executive producer is Ashley Airy. Our social media coordinator is Matilda Sebrecht. And our chief editor is Rachel Rodin. The Archaeology Podcast Network was co-founded by Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in 2014 and is part of CulturoMedia and DigTech LLC. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com.
Listener Engagement and Contact Information
00:28:44
Speaker
Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.