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The Chupacabra is Coming to Get You! - Pseudo 156
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What the hell is a chupacabra anyway? You’ve heard the term, but then you thought “Wait. Is that like a Mexican Leprechaun or something?” You may also ask “Hey Kinkella - how is this archaeological in any way?” I actually have answers for all of these questions, but you have to listen to the podcast, because that’s how I roll.
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- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/pseudo/156
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast Series
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You are now entering the pseudo-archaeology podcast, a show that uncovers what's fact, what's fake, and what's fun in the crazy world of pseudo-archaeology.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the pseudo archaeology podcast, episode one hundred and fifty
Tech Troubles and Computation Challenges
00:00:28
Speaker
six. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Kinkella. And tonight the
00:00:45
Speaker
All right, so. Welcome back, everybody, to another scintillating edition of the pseudo archaeology podcast. It's what is it? I'm recording this in early February and I got a new computer. I find that I get a new computer about once every decade. And I have to say, ma'am, it took a long time to port all my stuff over from the old computer.
00:01:10
Speaker
And I and this episode, this I'm recording for the first time right on my new computer. And you guys know how this goes. Like everything's a little different. Every time you're like plugging in external things like microphones or headphones, you're like, is this working? Even simple stuff like Chrome works different now. It looks different. I have to say it actually looks better, which is cool. But I have that.
00:01:40
Speaker
knowing worry that everything I'm doing right now is for nothing. You guys know how this goes, you know, I think I plugged in everything right. It seems good. Everything's working so smooth, ah a little too smooth.
00:01:55
Speaker
So anyway, that's how I i roll sort of the behind the scenes on podcasting. It's very doable with just a regular computer. I i buy a very solid, quite expensive Apple Mac but about once a decade. You know what I mean? And you guys know that means like dropping two grand, but.
00:02:19
Speaker
It was beyond time. My last computer was a 2015, I think. And it was like it was pretty tired. Actually, the battery had started to bulge at the bottom. Like my computer wouldn't sit flat. And I was like, why doesn't my computer sit flat? I thought the problem was with like all my tables. I thought every table in the house was just really like not not flat.
Introducing the Chupacabra
00:02:44
Speaker
So anyway, that's what's happening in the exciting life of Dr. Andrew Kinkella, archaeology professor. But for tonight. I thought I would do the Chupacabra. And one of my favorite things, you guys, that happens with doing these episodes is I learn something, you know what I mean? i Or I thought about something a certain way. And then I do a little research and I'm like, wow, I was totally wrong.
00:03:15
Speaker
You know, I just I just thought in the case, as we'll see, in the case of the Chupacabra, I just kind of thought the backstory was a certain way and it totally turns out it's not.
00:03:29
Speaker
Now, why I chose to do this is I have had the idea of doing the Chupacabra forever in my back pocket. Another view into the secret behind the scenes of the podcasting world is I keep a list of like ideas, you know, and Most honestly, most of these shows I do are from ideas that I have kind of that week or two days before I'm like, well, do this, you know, or something new happens in the news or something. But this is one that is sat there for for like a a year.
Chupacabra Sightings and Origins
00:04:05
Speaker
I'm like, when am I going to do the Chupacabra? I think I was a little worried about it because I thought it was going to be kind of hard and deep. It's actually really easy. It's really straightforward.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so barring me having this for a long time and wanting to do it, I also get questions from students about it or even just jokingly, you know, we'll say, oh, it's the Chupacabra. I had thought about it more in doing the Duende podcast like two times ago, you know, like two episodes ago or so that because the Duende is very similar, this kind of mythological creature. It's like, it's kind of like the Chupacabra.
00:04:42
Speaker
And then about six months ago or so, man, maybe seven or eight months last summer, I was part of this TV show called Strange and Suspicious, and it was done through the TMZ network.
00:04:59
Speaker
And on that show, we talked about all kinds of these sort of um mythological creatures. and it It went way onward. you know it It would talk about like unsolved murders and this kind of stuff. But I remember doing a little vignette on the Chupacabra. In fact, when we did that,
00:05:20
Speaker
It was based on a quote unquote sighting of a chupacabra, which happened at a Texas zoo in 2022. And you guys, if you want to look this up, I actually won't post the link underneath because there's actually several and they sort of change. You know how that goes. Like it's like, oh, this link actually doesn't work. So I don't want to.
00:05:44
Speaker
make my podcast link old before we even start. And I would just say if you just Google Chupacabra Texas Zoo 2022, it'll all come up. And the setup with that was that they basically have a photo of a weird looking creature on the outskirts of a zoo, like at the fence, you know, of the zoo. And of course, it's taken late at night. It's in that dark black and white, a smudgy kind of photo. You guys know how these look. You know, that could that could be a chupacabra or it could also be a whale. You know what I mean? like You're like, I don't know. But if you look at it, you see, it does look like
00:06:28
Speaker
kind of a creature standing on its legs. But as we'll see, it's, I know I'm going to ruin it again up front. Probably not a Chupacabra. Damn it. Right.
00:06:42
Speaker
So this instance from 2022 is just one example. There's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of like Chupacabra sightings. Right. And these have have exploded, I would say, in the last maybe the last decade. And as you look back, though.
00:07:04
Speaker
in history, what I thought was that, OK, there's Chupacabra sightings today, but it's just kind of old folklore. And you will see these through the decades. But you don't. You see nothing about the Chupacabra until like the 90s, I think, which which are like that recent. What's going on? Right. It's really, really odd because all these other stories, you know, every time.
00:07:31
Speaker
Like when we were talking about the Dwindae, it's like the Dwindae have this deep history. And for those of you who didn't listen to the episode, I think it's 154. I'm really shocked and appalled, first off, that you haven't heard all of them and aren't carefully taking notes for your Dr. Andrew Kekela autobiography that you're writing. But barring that, yeah, if you if you look back He has his deep history going back into Spanish mythology, hundreds and hundreds of years. It's the the idea of the Duende, this kind of trickster creature in the jungle is very cliche in the best possible sense, right? It goes like you think you're like, OK, this is a story. It's kind of there's sort of some local indigenous belief there. It's mixed up with stuff that came with the Spanish. And this brings us to the modern day.
00:08:29
Speaker
Be like, OK, I think most of us think the Chupacabras like that. I did like it because I'm like, I want to see what the earliest, you know, recorded image of a Chupacabra is. I want to see the earliest recorded writings. It's like 1995.
00:08:45
Speaker
And the more I looked at this, yes, that's true. The chupacabra is really, really
Chupacabra Characteristics and Cultural Impact
00:08:52
Speaker
recent. And when we return. A deeper dive into this recent entity. The chupacabra. Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archaeology podcast, episode one hundred and fifty six. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew King Keller, and we're talking about the chupacabra.
00:09:15
Speaker
And so what is this Chupacabra thing? First and foremost, like how is it described? You'll hear that it's like usually it actually was two routes almost, but it's always some sort of beast and it's about human size, you know, give or take. Sometimes in the descriptions, it goes a little more towards like a lizardy thing.
00:09:44
Speaker
And then other times it goes more towards like a wolf ish thing. So you kind of have the more you're using that that kind of almost that horror cliche of the lizard person or you're using that horror cliche of the sort of werewolf, you know, kind of kind of thing.
00:10:05
Speaker
And so they're one or the other. And that's one of the interesting things about the cheaper copper. It's very broad. You can't like. Comparing it again to the one day, I could draw you a one day pretty much right leprechaun figure pointy shoes, the hat. We had talked about that before.
00:10:22
Speaker
But with a chupacabra, it's kind of amorphous. It's like, OK, it's just it's ah it's around human size, give or take. And it's it's kind of four legged and it tends to walk on its hind legs, I think. But beyond that, it's like, well, some say it's lizardish and some say it's kind of wolfish and and it just depends.
00:10:43
Speaker
So in this, though, the name Chupacabra, it means like goat sucker in Spanish or really more specifically, it's like sucker of goats because Chupar is to suck and then cobras goat. The idea being with this is it's a creature that like kills livestock. You know, you come out in the morning and you see that these goats are dead and you're like, oh, my God, the Chupacabra.
00:11:12
Speaker
And in that instance, it is similar to the Duende or something, this mythical creature that is blamed for, you know, the everyday stuff that's beyond your control. So
Media's Role in Myth Formation
00:11:26
Speaker
there is that.
00:11:27
Speaker
And the very first ah recording of this is very specific. Actually, it's in 1995, right? You're like, wow, so recent. And it's a woman in Puerto Rico who says that there's this creature that came and basically, you know, killed all these goats and sheep and stuff.
00:11:48
Speaker
And she she described it as kind of like a I think like a like a kangaroo, but in like reptile clothing. Right. With like red eyes and you know very along that line of the more reptilian side. Right. What I think is so fascinating is they interviewed her more later, you know, and they just kept talking with her.
00:12:16
Speaker
And I forget who exactly did this, but they were talking to her and talking to her and they asked her because of because of how she described the Chupacabra.
00:12:27
Speaker
It was sounding so close to the alien creature in the movie species that they were like, have you seen the movie species that had come out, you know, like like six months before or something like this? And she's like, yeah, yeah, I've seen the movie species. And because I think when they were drawing what she was describing, it was just becoming so close to the main creature in the movie that they were like, wait a second here, I i think I'm drawing I'm drawing the species creature. And if you Google species, right, it came out in 1995 and that's the, it's sort of a sci-fi horror and it, the setup is the sort of what if for the movie is like, okay,
00:13:17
Speaker
We're taking alien. But what if the alien was a was a super attractive sexy woman? Right. That's that's the angle they're taking on the movie species. It's Natasha Henstridge plays the species, the creature even even has name still. So Natasha Natasha Henstridge plays still this this yeah super sexy.
00:13:40
Speaker
lizard creature.
00:13:44
Speaker
and And that's all I need to tell you. And you know how the movie goes, right? That's the deal. You just add that to like an alien vibe. You're good. But it shows you how much like the media and just Hollywood movies have an influence on us. Right. It starts to make more sense. It's like, oh, my God, she saw this movie. It's kind of inner subconscious. You know, she kind of woke up, you know, kind of groggy and just related the story that felt, I'm sure, quite true that a creature that, you know, is just a sort of a Xerox of the species alien. Came into this thing.
00:14:28
Speaker
And it was such an interesting kind of story that it it just blossomed from there. And so I still, you guys, I'm still shocked that the Chupacabra is so new. That's when it starts. it It has a it has a birth date of 1995, you know. and And one of the reasons it shocks me is haven't you heard this before? Haven't you heard the name Chupacabra? It has become I would say one of the top five, but the top five kind of half joked about creatures that, you know, we throw back and forth in conversation like the Chupacabra is going to get you right. It's it's it's like number one with a bullet, the Chupacabra, you know, amazing how it has has infiltrated modern culture.
00:15:22
Speaker
It does have a so of so like a Southwest America vibe to it, even though it's from Puerto Rico. Right. But I think because it originally comes from a Spanish speaking place, it's.
00:15:38
Speaker
co-opted quicker into Spanish speaking communities. So Desert Southwest and this kind of thing. Of course, the the sighting I told you guys about in 2022 was in a zoo in Amarillo, Texas. Right. That would totally make sense.
00:15:55
Speaker
And I think it's because of that Spanish background that we think that the Chupacabra has a really, really deep history. Right. But I think the reason we think that is because we are now conflating it with other creatures that do have a deeper history.
00:16:22
Speaker
And herein lies the difficulty of defining the Chupacabra because it's stealing from like more well-known creatures with much more historic depth. But it also kind of has its origin story and its original, its original description.
00:16:42
Speaker
And don't you guys think like to me, the original description is way off my first image in my mind when I say when I hear the word chupacabra, right? It's not I think that that species lizard looking guy. I don't think he lasts. To me, the chupacabra has evolved into a much more werewolf kind of thing, you know?
00:17:04
Speaker
Because I think everyone thinks, again, the Amarillo, Texas story, that's a that's a wolf looking creature. And, you know, if we want to know what it is, it's a wolf right in the Amarillo.
00:17:19
Speaker
Zoo story.
Modern Mythology and Public Perception
00:17:20
Speaker
That's a wolf. And often it'll be like a wolf with mange or something like that, which is really sad, you know, when you see it like so. It isn't a mythological creature. Unfortunately, it's one of those times, you know, when we vote, we want we want a world with mythological creatures in it. The world is more fascinating and complex with mythological creatures in it, you know, like a thing called the Chupacabra. But if you want that. You've obviously tuned into the wrong show. And isn't that a bummer?
00:17:49
Speaker
But yeah, in the Amarillo, Texas story, it's just, it's a wolf or a coyote, you know, it's one of the two, probably a coyote with mange. I have to look closer, but yeah, it sounds way more coyote the more I think about it. So yeah obviously I can't even get that straight. So let's be honest. It's a chupacabra. When we come back, my last thoughts on the chupacabra.
00:18:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archaeology podcast, Episode 156. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Kinkella, and we are wrapping up our discussion on the Chupacabra. So I think one of the reasons that the Chupacabra has become so common in our own kind of folk mythology, because that's really what it is. I dude, I love folk mythology, right? I love the Dwen day. You know, it's it's it's great. And I honestly, I love the idea of the Chupacabra, too. I love the origin story. I love that it's so recent. But I think the reason for its explosion.
00:19:01
Speaker
We are also in the social media world, my friend. And so what happens is people will post, you know, things on, be it, be it Twitter, be it Instagram, you know, pick your poison and just say, Oh my God, the chupacabra. And that gets taken up and you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of people will see it and then just kind of lodge it in their mind. We're so bombarded with all this stuff that like we're just We're just like, oh, yeah, Chupacabra. And so actually back to the Texas Zoo one, they did that online, right? It got taken up online. And so and besides they they were having a discussion. I'm like, OK, if it's not a Chupacabra, what is it? And someone, of course, suggested a werewolf. And you see how that is going to start to build into the Chupacabra mythology.
00:19:59
Speaker
And then someone suggested a skin walker. And for me, I think that's probably the number one mistake with Chupacabra. I think people get the Chupacabra mixed up with the Skinwalker. The Skinwalker is like a... it's ah It's a Navajo kind of mythological creature. The Skinwalker is like this negative kind of witch that like can morph into an animal. but it has The Skinwalker has animal characteristics.
00:20:34
Speaker
If you guys ever watched, oh, what's that show called? The Native American show that I that I loved. Reservation dogs, reservation dogs. If you've watched reservation dogs, but some of the scenes, they have a woman who you would I would say off the top of my head, you would likely define as a skin walker. And I think because of the skin walkers,
00:21:01
Speaker
relationship to an animal. It's animal characteristics. So many mythological creatures like this have like a human and animal like marriage, right, of characteristics.
00:21:13
Speaker
But because the skin walkers just like that and the skin walker has that depth, that like that like historic cultural depth. You know, I think we just staple it on to the chupacabra, but that is incorrect. They are two different creatures. And funnily enough, the person who was posting about this being like, no, it's not a chupacabra. It's a skin walker. That is the correct way to think about it. Right. These are two different mythological creatures.
00:21:39
Speaker
And then, of course, and this is one of the many reasons why I do this, why I would bring up something like this, because I could see if you're listening closely, you're like, what does this have to do with archaeology? This isn't pseudo archaeology. It's and like what would you know, pop and thought mythology? I guess pop mythology. Yeah, I don't know. But I know it doesn't on that on the straight sense. Right. Something like Atlantis, obviously.
00:22:09
Speaker
much more classic pseudo archaeological story. But the Chupacabra, it does relate because it it's like this modern thing weaving into this past mythologies. Right.
Mythological Comparisons and Social Impact
00:22:22
Speaker
Where, you know, worst case scenario, you could be like, oh, I'm digging in an archaeological site and here's a thousand year old evidence of Chupacabras. You know, you could see the past being bastardized like that, like it's a it's a Tiny quarter of a step away, my friends. And looking back online to people's reactions of these kinds of things, of course, you have a huge amount of the crowd who looks at this and goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not a chupacabra. It's an alien. And, you know, I'll say as I go through this with you guys, this journey, which is the pseudo archaeology podcast,
00:23:05
Speaker
I'm surprised and you would think of me where you think I would not be surprised. But I'm surprised how much the alien thing comes up, you know, and the reason why it does. Obviously, his laziness, you know, it's always that last gasp one and.
00:23:29
Speaker
You know, whether you think that chipper coppers are real or not, obviously, I don't. There's no evidence for them. But I love the story. I love the idea that a woman in Puerto Rico in 1995 saw some, you know, dead goats and was like, no, it these these goats didn't die from disease. They died because of this creature that came. You know, that's that's awesome.
00:23:53
Speaker
But isn't that so much better than the aliens thing? The aliens thing is just lame. You know, it's got no, you just go, oh, well, you know, it's aliens. What? No, it's not calm. So yeah what's so funny here is I'm almost I'm battling one fake story above another. You know what I mean? But aren't you with me on that? I just
Entertainment vs. Harm in Myth Propagation
00:24:16
Speaker
what can I say? I have a warm place in my heart for Chupacabras. Chupacabra is the It's the Mormon religion of religions. You know what I mean? It's recent. You can trace its past. It has a tough time with all its older brothers because it's so new. Right. It's the same thing. Another thing about this that I think is interesting is if you again, if you look online, if you look up back to the zoo article,
00:24:46
Speaker
Uh, which, which comes up, you guys, you'll find like there's five different versions of this. They'll be the local like Amarillo newspaper that covered it. There'll be the local news you can cruise around, but, uh, which I did. And on one of them, they were interviewing like the zookeeper, like the main guy, right? And they're like, Hey, you know, why did you put this online or why did you, you know, why did you publicize this?
00:25:12
Speaker
And I thought he gave a really interesting answer. He was not like, well, I publicized it because. The chupacabra needs to be known. It needs to be out there. We need to show the truth of chupacabras. It's like, no, he's like, look, we saw this thing on our cameras and we put it out there just because we thought the public would have a little fun with it. And you know what? I got nothing against him for that. Again, I'm all for the public having a little bit of fun for it. And I'm sure.
00:25:42
Speaker
that it that also gives a little uptake in zoo patronage. You know what I mean? And that's cool. I like it that people get out a little more and go to the zoo. Why not? You know, so it gives him.
00:25:56
Speaker
a little bit of a commercial for the Amarillo Zoo. And it it gives a little online firestorm for a couple of days about the Chupacabra.
00:26:09
Speaker
And I don't know. This is this is funny. This this gets me right in this weird corner that I struggle with in terms of the world of pseudo archeology, which is how damaging is something like this? I don't think it's very damaging. You know, others might disagree, but I'm like the ah to me, here's how I feel. And, you know, you always hear like, oh, well, the general public, oh, they're so stupid. Oh, the general public, they're so stupid. I don't think so.
00:26:41
Speaker
I think when it comes to online media, when it comes to aliens, all that kind of stuff, I think the general public is very in tune. I'm not here to say that like the general public is so in tune that something like Graham Hancock is a positive force or the people can see through that, you know, because that's really difficult. Like it's really difficult to seize through some of what Graham
Cultural Reflections on Modern Mythology
00:27:09
Speaker
Hancock does. I got I'm not angry or something or displeased or something. If someone comes to me and we talk and they are like a believer in Graham Hancock stuff, I'm not like, oh, you're so stupid. Not at all. Because I get I get how that makes sense to someone who isn't, you know, a specialist in this stuff like me.
00:27:29
Speaker
So I get that. But at the same time, what's so funny is if we go even further, if we get more outlandish and I'm thinking like ancient aliens or chupacabras.
00:27:41
Speaker
i I think it's so outlandish that people are just having fun with it. You know, if if you watch ancient aliens, I mean, how many people watch ancient aliens and go, yep, there's a documentary. I don't think your average viewer does. Of course, there's ah fringe, you know, there's fringe on all this stuff. And the fringe people tend to be the ones that are doing all the posting. But I think for the average person, you know, I think they I think they get the joke.
00:28:10
Speaker
And I think they're just a little tired on a Friday night and they would just want to watch something that's kind of funny and kind of interesting and silly. Right. And so that's where I land on the Chupacabra. I love the story of the Chupacabra. I love that we can trace it historically to 1995 to a singular event in Puerto Rico.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I think it's fascinating that it has exploded on the scene in the last couple of years. I do have a couple of notes for the Chupacabra, for the Chupacabra's success going forward. Dear Chupacabra, you have to define yourself a little better. You got to think, do I just drop the lizard part and go with the more modern coyote-ish, werewolf-ish thing. Do I incorporate? Do I say there's two versions of me? But you got to solidify that, right? Oh, hey, one last thing. As I've been looking at my Chupacabra notes, I've seen a couple of times where there were sightings reported in the 1970s. Now, I've looked a little into this, and I think that those sightings were tacked on later. I think the original
00:29:23
Speaker
beginnings of the Chupacabra. I still stand by my 1995 original, but I think after that, people quickly sort of added other stories from earlier, from the 80s and into the 70s saying, oh, okay, that explains this thing, right? But the idea of Chupacabra, I don't think existed on this earth until 1995. And another clarification,
00:29:44
Speaker
Sometimes I say wolf. It's definitely a coyote world of things, right? It's definitely a large dog coyote world more if you have to pick one over the other. You see, I can be honest about my mistakes. And with that, I'll talk to you guys next time.
00:30:05
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the pseudo archeology podcast. Please like and subscribe wherever you'd like and subscribe. And if you have questions for me, Dr. Andrew Kinkella, feel free to reach out using the links below or go to my YouTube channel, Kinkella teaches archeology. See you guys next time.
00:30:26
Speaker
The Archaeology Podcast Network is 10 years old this year. Our executive producer is Ashley Airy. Our social media coordinator is Matilda Sebrecht. And our chief editor is Rachel Roden. The Archaeology Podcast Network was co-founded by Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in 2014 and is part of CulturoMedia and DigTech LLC. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.