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Ethnocynology in the Apocalypse: Children of Men - Ethno 10
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As laid out in Episode 4, David will be doing deep dives into movies, TV shows, and books that have to do with anthropology and dogs in the apocalypse. In this episode, David does a deep dive on a film called “Children of Men” directed by Alfonso Cuarón.
Children of Men explores a near-future where men and women have become infertile, and no one is able to reproduce. In this story, dogs play a role in substituting for children, which is uniquely explored in the film through its cinematography.
Some of the things David discusses are the plot Summary, key themes, the role of dogs as surrogates for children, and Cuaron’s cinematic techniques and world-building,
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- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/ethnocynology/10
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Episode
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Anthropology in the Apocalypse: Film Discussions
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to episode 10 of ethnocynology with David Ian Howe. I'm your host David Ian Howe. I recently did a video on ah anthropology in the apocalypse and kind of laid out several movies and books and TV shows and just other media that have to do with the apocalypse, but specifically like ones that have to do with dogs. I am legend being probably the most recognizable one with the dog, a boy and his dog and stuff. But one movie that I completely forgot to add to that list was Children of Men. And that's one of my favorite movies. And I also recently just watched that with my mother and movies and TV shows I often rate on a scale of did my mother hate it or not?
00:00:58
Speaker
this movie, I thought she would like, but she didn't hate it. So therefore, I think it's a good movie. I also myself think it's one of the best movies I did. It's excellent film. Yeah. So Children of Men is directed by Alfonso Cuaron is his name. He also directed Ituma Matambien, which is like one of the best Spanish speaking films, I think, like known to the English world. It's about it's got Diego Luna in it.
00:01:25
Speaker
And I don't remember the other guy, but he also happens to be in Station 11, which is the movie I talked or a TV show I talked about in the apocalypse thing. Anyway, that's digressing. Alfonso Cuaron is an excellent director. um But what I'm going to talk about with Children of Men here is the dog aspect, of course. But also why this film is still relevant today, you know, kind of like I guess my personal connection with it would be the dealing. We'll see if my mom liked it, but the dog aspect. But also it's pretty relevant today, given the state of
00:01:59
Speaker
the world.
Plot and Setting of 'Children of Men'
00:02:00
Speaker
And yeah, it's like, I just I'll give a quick if you haven't, how would I say this? If you haven't seen the movie, I recommend watching the movie before you listen to this podcast. But also Like it's been out for over 10 years now. So if you were to listen to this podcast and watch the movie, it might make it better for you because you'll understand it more and also be like, Oh, that's what he was talking about. So yeah that's fine. We're living in an era of spoilers. So, uh, yeah, so that'll just be like the quick introduction. The plot summary of children of men is how would I say this? And maybe not even the plot summary, just the, you know, back of the DVD thing is that like,
00:02:42
Speaker
It's not an apocalyptic film in a sense like there's not like a giant nuclear holocaust there's not a you know there's no zombies or anything but it's a very unique one in that all of the humans on earth are no longer fertile. I don't remember if it's just the women are infertile and can't Conceive or if it's the men that are infertile themselves too, I'm not sure but the beginning of the movie opens up with stars Clive Owen whose name is Theo Farron in the in the movie ah who is just like, you know, it takes place in London or the UK starts out in London.
00:03:20
Speaker
And what's the, the opening scene of the movie really is he's going to get coffee in this, ah ah they don't have bodegas in London, but whatever it's called, like you go, you know, just someplace to get coffee, coffee shop. And in the coffee shop, they're watching TV and it's the news and the youngest person in the world. So after people, like the last kid born before everyone went in fertile was this young kid, I believe he lives in Brazil, I want to say.
00:03:48
Speaker
baby something, I forget what they called him. Anyway, he like he was the youngest kid alive. He was like 19. But because of that, he's a massive celebrity because he's the youngest person on earth and all these people kind of not worship him, but venerate him in a way of like, you know, they're holding on to the past and the old ways and that this guy, he's the he's the last piece of hope that the world has, you know? And in an altercation with like a fan or a fanatic, he gets stabbed and he dies. So the youngest person in the world dies. And that's the beginning of the movie. And then as he walks out of that coffee shop, like narrowly misses it, like he like maybe takes two buildings down from down the street of that building. ah It gets bombed. There's like a bomb. And then you find out, of course, like, OK,
00:04:34
Speaker
There's like terror attacks in London
Resistance Movement and Personal Stakes
00:04:36
Speaker
and things like that. And one of the really interesting things about the movie, which, um, the plot, you know, I can explain here in a minute, but the, the world building of this film is insane in that you see like new snippets. I think it takes place in 2025, if I'm not mistaken, 2022 maybe.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, it was filmed in like 2000 or it takes place in 2027. I'm sorry. The movie came out, I want to say in like 2008. Maybe I could be wrong. Anyway, so it is anticipating a future. And not everyone's just constantly on their phones because we wouldn't have anticipated that in 2007, I guess ah the same way. But there are kind of futuristic TV screens all around. Like, you know, London's a very high tech city in the same sense. There's like New York with the the TVs all over the place. And it's Times Square, especially.
00:05:24
Speaker
in New York, but London has its own versions of that. And just like futuristic and on these TV screens that you see in the copy shop or that you see in, you know, on TV at the house, you hear it on the radio, you notice that London, the UK is the only place that's still like running. There's massive protests, massive war. There's the siege of Seattle, I think they said, or the Battle of Seattle, as mentioned on the news. There's You can see there's a people in China, I think they mentioned, but they when he's on the bus, ah you know, public transit in London going somewhere, you see like this like thing showing you how there's turmoil all over the world and like everything's on fire because, you know, the world is ending. No one can have children anymore. But it says the UK stands alone or like Britain, only Britain remains, I believe is what it says. And you find out quickly, much like I mentioned in
00:06:17
Speaker
that last video about how in these movies, fascist dictatorships often take over because it's the only way to like secure the country, you know, and Britain is taken over by an extremely xenophobic fascist dictatorship. Well, we don't even know if it's a dictatorship. It could be like an oligarchy. It could be a democracy of some kind. But we just know that they do not like foreign aliens. They do not like there's very xenophobic. And by foreign aliens, I mean,
00:06:46
Speaker
Anybody they
Character Motivations and Societal Commentary
00:06:47
Speaker
show like people in cages. They're like everybody gets deported only if you're a British citizen Can you be here like and they're rounding up migrants and they're sending them out which kind of relevant to today?
00:06:58
Speaker
sending people out ah and like you see frequently throughout the movie like people in cages and at one point like there's an officer like walks on the bus and he's like taking people and putting them like you know arresting them and sending them out of the country and he's like you people make me sick and it's like such a distinct like I don't think our problems like that bad yet we're not looking at people as like you know vermin and that sounds like rough to say but the movie really shows you like how that could go in an apocalyptic future like that but of course Britain remains because of that they're like deporting all these people they're keeping the borders extremely secure they're not letting any terrorism they're not letting any uh i guess you could say drugs they're not letting any like other political or anything else they're just keeping britain and britain and that's like all they can do is just keep their heads down and keep going
00:07:49
Speaker
and everyone in the movie is still has a job kind of like the guy's still going to work and he even goes to work after like the place gets bombed. I digressed a bit and he goes back to the you know his job and everyone's just kind of watching tv or they're you know watching youtube or the news on their computers and their cubicles watching that this kid in brazil got stabbed it might be argentina i want to say it's brazil doesn't It doesn't matter. Some Latin American country, the youngest man in the world was killed and everyone's like depressed and sad. And he's like, oh, I'm going to go home. I am quite depressed about baby Elliot, whatever his name was. And the boss is like, whatever. Like you can just tell it's like there's a genuine feeling of like bleakness.
00:08:32
Speaker
And this is just part of you know being in Britain, is the sky is always gray. I noticed that when I was there, ah but it's not raining on you. But the whole movie has a very gray, dark tone to it. And everyone's just like melancholic and stuff. But the main plot is, and you see many signs throughout the city, too, of like there's mandatory fertility checks for men all over the place. So that's right. So men, I guess, ah can be fertile. It's just this woman can't conceive, maybe, is the point.
00:09:01
Speaker
um I don't remember if they established that. If you've watched the movie, let me know in the comments, but either way, there's like mandatory, it's like a fascist dictatorship. Like we need to have children. There needs to be some kind of cure. And then there's a ah group of, well, I'm getting into the thing, but we'll get to that. He, ah there's a resistance movement. There you go. That's what I'll say.
00:09:22
Speaker
And there's a resistance movement to the fascist dictatorship. And there's also the birthing project, I want to say, or the rebirth project, which supposedly is somewhere outside of England. I believe it's in the Canary Islands, which is those are are the Azores or the Canary Islands off of ah of Africa or Spain. Anyway, somewhere that's not Britain, but you can't leave Britain. You can't come into Britain.
00:09:47
Speaker
Well, let's see. The main plot, here we go, is that
Symbolism of Dogs and Emotional Surrogates
00:09:52
Speaker
you find out that Clive Owen used to be part of this separatist, you know I wouldn't say terrorist group, but a resistance movement to what's going on. And he is, you know, kidnapped into a van and his ex-girlfriend, who's American for some reason,
00:10:08
Speaker
Tries to bring him back and they're like hey, I know you have connections that kidnap him and like ah basically be like I know you have a connection with this guy in the government I need you to get us passports to get out of There to go north to this other part of England I know to get I think just to get to Bristol which Bristol is the port city off of London. I got Can't recall. I should have wrote this down. But point being, they need him to get help them get a government favor to smuggle somebody. And you're not sure like what the deal is yet. And then you find out as you go and you like find out more about their relationship with, you know, in the past, these people used to be dating. OK, it's like world building and you still see more stuff around Britain. People are going to there's a dog racing thing. And this is part of the dog thing that he goes to a dog racing thing, which I know is big in England.
00:10:55
Speaker
But there's like people are betting on dogs. There's no children. So there's just dogs everywhere. And you see that and every scene down the street or like in people's houses, there's always a dog because there's no children to be had. And there's also this interesting scene to where he goes. He finally goes to this guy's house to.
00:11:13
Speaker
ask him for this political favor of like, can you get his passports to get us out of here? And his like son who is like probably in his late 20s or 30s is at the table just playing video games and with his headphones in and like he's being kind of babied in a way. And you get this world building sense of like, OK, children are still true like some if a parent has a child, even if that child's older, they're still babying the child or their children, you know, their offspring as if it's like a baby, because like That's just what you do. And if you're young, like you would probably just want to live that way anyway. And it's it's just very interesting. You have to watch the movie and probably making that that sound weird anyway. So they get this political favor from the guy and Clive Owen, the girl or his ex-girlfriend, this other lady and this
00:12:01
Speaker
other young lady, I'll find, look, I can describe that more in a minute, are going north to this base where I cannot remember the name of the group. Anyway, the resistance movement, they go Clive Owen and his girlfriend, um or his ex-girlfriend, and these two other women, and a guy who is the guy that was in 12 Years a Slave, can't remember the actor's name, this is an excellent podcast, I'm sorry, I'll put that up here. He, they're going north to get to this place,
00:12:30
Speaker
And once they get to this like farmstead ah where like this Polish guy allows the resistance movement to be there, Clive Owen finds out all this to say that the young woman, I believe she's Jamaican. I can't remember her accent.
00:12:45
Speaker
is, I mean, she lives in Britain anyway, pregnant. She reveals like she opens up her like robe and like you find out she's pregnant. And that's like kind of a shock to the movie. And you're like, whoa, what? And this Clive Owen character whose name is Pharaoh, Theo Farron, Theo Farron, Theo.
00:13:03
Speaker
who, which now I'm just realizing Theo, I mean theological, he has no faith in the world, right? But he see, wow, I just, I just did that in my head. Here we go.
Cinematic Techniques and Narrative Progression
00:13:13
Speaker
Well, great world building, great writing. He's kind of cynical and he drinks, he's a terrible drinking problem. The world's ending. He's just like done. He's like, whatever. He doesn't even care about work and stuff. But he sees that this girl's pregnant.
00:13:26
Speaker
And then he kind of like has this like face and glows of like, whoa. And then he realizes, um and I'm sorry, before that, his ex-girlfriend was like murdered in an attack by just random people in the woods that just attacked the car because why not? It's, you know, an apocalyptic. It's a pseudo-apocalyptic story where the apocalypse has yet to happen, but it's starting because no one can have children, if that makes sense. And there's still Britain still trying to hold on to whatever's left of like functioning society. And as we know from anthropology, like society, and this is the Malinowski thing, culture you know it works to benefit the individual, but it keeps groups cohesive and stuff like that. But culture exists to you know benefit you.
00:14:11
Speaker
to explain this. Culture exists to benefit the individual, but by collectively like participating in the same culture, it helps everybody at the same time, if that makes sense. So keeping Britain running and operating in this way and going about your day-to-day business just makes the average person like Theo in this film like have something to live for. ah you know So we find out then the the girl is pregnant and he's immediately like, oh man, I have to write. And I said this to his girlfriend was murdered. And then he's like, okay, I got to carry on what she wanted. And I understand why this was so crucial, but she wouldn't tell him what was up. And he realizes in the rest of the movie, he's doing like everything he can in this power to get this girl to where she needs to go because she's the, you know, future of humanity. Actually, this will be a great time for a commercial break. We'll be right back.
00:15:02
Speaker
And we're back. Uh, so obviously this girl's pregnant. The point of the movie would be bad if she just dies, but she ends up having the baby and they get put in this migrant detention center and she's about to give birth. Like she's having contractions and the late, the other lady that they were with was like a doula, I guess, or like a midwife. Well, you find that out actually. Yeah. She used to be a midwife. Uh, and she worked at like a hospital where they deliver babies and she remembers like,
00:15:29
Speaker
the week where it just like all of her business just disappeared. Like everyone just stopped having babies and that's when she gave up with hope. And it's just like one of those nice little monologues between her and Clive Owen and like this nice little setting and the girl that's pregnant is out like on a swing set, like in this, and you know, bombed out building, her abandoned building that bombed out, just like, you know, It's just the juxtaposition and the world building and the like the themes and the setting of the movies just kind of bleak. But they get these little human moments and like anthropological moments in that sense. And let's see we it the plot summary.
00:16:09
Speaker
I'm trying to think of how to let go about this to make it, I guess I'll just tell you the rest of the plot. Yeah. So they go to, they get stuck in this migrant detention center. They're trying to go north or to Bristol. I can't recall. And they get caught and they get brought to this place and this migrant detention center. And they go put in like a ghetto, essentially like in, in, uh, World War II, Germany, uh, full of immigrants. And there's this one lady is,
00:16:36
Speaker
mean gypsy would be the word i would say but romani she's speaking romani is her like culture or whatever um i know gypsy's like not they call themselves gypsies i think you can still say gypsies you can't use gypsy in that derogatory term anyway she's speaking romani she has a dog with her the whole time she's holding a pet dog And that's like she's treating it like a baby talking to it like it's a baby. And they find her because she was one of the connections in this like ghetto migrant area that's like barricaded kind of looks like, you know, and an outdoor prison. And they all.
00:17:07
Speaker
She ends up, the poor woman ends up having a, should the the Romani lady takes her to this place. She ends up having the baby on this, like, disgusting mattress in this, like, abandoned building. Well, not abandoned, it's full of migrants and stuff. It's really dark. Has the baby and then the next day, like, someone comes in and the dog sniffs out that there's a baby under the blanket. um It's interesting, the dog aspect.
00:17:30
Speaker
And then, let's say she has the baby, and at this time, as she's having the baby, and like the day she has the baby I should say, the, ah I don't want to say it's the Muslim Brotherhood, but it's like there's definitely like an Arabic Muslim
00:17:49
Speaker
islamic group that is fighting the government but alongside that like they're the most organized and they're chanting the streets and in protest they're having a funeral for somebody yeah and then they start shooting and there is then like the other like There's like, that's like a distinct faction of people that are fighting the government. And as they do that, the other like, let's say other immigrants from Europe, like there's a lot of Russian ones, you heard, I heard a guy speaking Polish, this lady speaking Romani, there's people from ah Jamaica, there's other people, there are Asian people there too, ah in this ghetto area, they all rise up to and are fighting the government at the same time as that's going on. And there's like this giant war torn scene of like,
00:18:29
Speaker
It's a very long take and something excellent about this movie is the cinematic or the cinematography and the long takes of all these shots where you are stuck in the action with him in this extremely stressful situation where there's a baby the lady just gave birth so she's probably exhausted. I'm assuming there's a lot of pain involved in that like you know if you just had a baby the night before you don't want to be running for your life the next day.
00:18:54
Speaker
And yeah they're like running for their lives and like running into these buildings. It's urban warfare. The British government or the um British army is shooting these rebels and the rebels or, you know, what insurrection, whatever you want to call them. Resistance fighters are this like ragtag group of like migrants. There's
Symbolism and Emotional Reactions to Newborn
00:19:11
Speaker
shooting the back of the government and they end up ah finally leaving that area only after some of the British soldiers bust up into this ah room they're holed up in and see that she has a baby and as they see that the girl's carrying a baby the military stops the like is oh what's the word
00:19:33
Speaker
I have to watch the movie again to remember like what they're the there is like three different factions fighting, but they're both for two of them are fighting the British government. They all stop. They all stop fighting when they see the baby. And there's like this big scene where they're like walking down the stairs in an apartment building with like the British military and ah resistance fighters um all staring at her like in the British guy calls like ceasefire, ceasefire, and the baby's walking down the stair. or The baby's not the lady's bringing the baby down the stairs.
00:20:03
Speaker
And so is Clive Owen and the Romani lady, I think. And the Romani lady is trying to find them a boat and they had told him you need to get to this boat or get a boat and then ride out to this buoy that's at the, so I guess they are in Bristol, um right out to this buoy where.
00:20:24
Speaker
the ship will pick you up and will take you to the, I want to say it's the Canary Islands where this birthing project is where they're going to take her to safety. But at the end of the movie, Clive Owen, he reveals that he got shot and he like dies in the rowboat and she's just like left sitting in the rowboat with the baby, but the boat shows up. So it's a very ambiguous ending of like, does the world get fixed or not? It's up to you. But the main thing here is that the When everyone was like fighting in this ghetto in London, our migrant concentration camp ghetto in London, the everyone stops. And they like see this baby because it's like that's what they're all fighting about. Because like no one's yeah like everyone's dead. They're all going to die if you can't have children. and So you can see the hope in everyone's faces as this baby comes down the stairs.
Parenting Themes and Comparisons to Other Media
00:21:15
Speaker
um And it's like kind of kind of wild.
00:21:19
Speaker
And yeah, so I would say now that you got the plot down, sorry for the spoilers, the key themes of this movie would be that I've written down here, like hope versus despair. Theo is transformed from like this cynical dude, kind of like Joel in The Last of Us. He's an alcoholic in the drugs. Joel is in the show. I don't know about, I don't think there's any drugs involved in Theo's character, but definitely alcohol.
00:21:45
Speaker
from a cynical man to a believer in change, the xenophobe, like it's ah commentary on the real world, like refugee and like migrant crisis is going on, especially in Europe, it's pretty bad. And like this was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, this movie came out. So it's like it was already, you know, talking about that then. ah But the movie shows how bad it will get in the future, or how it could get.
00:22:09
Speaker
But the government control and resistance of this movie that clash between the oppressive systems and the underground movements, they go underground movement, not resistance movement or partisans. That's the word I've been thinking of the entire time. Thank you, partisans. But parenthood in the values of like how the absence of children reshapes society's priorities. Everyone's kind of just bummed out. It's bleak. There's not much going on. Michael Caine, I didn't even bring up his character. He's a minor character in the movie. You see him several times. He's like an old friend of Theo.
00:22:39
Speaker
and like this old hippie guy and they go hide out at this his house and stuff but at the house you're learning that Theo and his ex-girlfriend had a baby a long time ago and it's kind of like the last of us in that sense too where Joe lost um his daughter, can't remember her name now, he's reluctant to take on the task of smuggling Ellie, Ellie, there you go, taking Ellie across the country to the fight. It's the same kind of thing. She's got the cure for the the fungus virus thing that's going on in the last of us. They're trying to get her across the country to a resistance partisan base where they can do research on her to fix that.
00:23:15
Speaker
And then in this movie, obviously it's they're trying to get a pregnant woman to a birthing center where they can research, you know, how she's able to be fertile, blah, blah. But in Michael Kane's house, you're finding out like the young girl learns more about Theo, his past and that he had a baby and like, you know, why he's just so jaded and stuff. But once he finds out that she's pregnant and like, once she has the baby, it's like game on for him. He's like, we got to like, I have the chance to save the world here. I'm going to do it. And he does it for his ex-girlfriend as well.
00:23:45
Speaker
We'll be right back after these messages. And we're back. I want to say one other thing here before we get into dogs, the cinematic techniques in the world building. um I kind of said that like Alfonso Cuaronel's signature long takes, kind of like Miguel Sapochnik does in Game of Thrones. Remember the hard home episode of Game of Thrones where Jon Snow's trying to get all the Wildlings
Pets as Surrogate Children and Societal Shifts
00:24:08
Speaker
safe south beyond the wall because they're going to get killed by the White Walkers and the White Walkers attack. It's this big long one-take thing. There's the Battle of the Bastards has a big one-take thing. Miguel Sapochnick's excellent at that, but so is Alfonso Cuaron. And in this movie, like the long takes keep you in the action. Like it's it.
00:24:29
Speaker
but a cut and a take and a stuff always take you out of the scene for a second. If it's done really well, obviously you still stay engaged in the movie. But like when you're watching this movie, especially in that big long partisan versus British government sequence and like there's like I think there's just like shouting and chanting and stuff and like people screaming in the background and there's bullets and there's explosions and stuff like you're all stuck in it with this big long take following these people which is a testament to the acting of the movie like how they all remember exactly what they're supposed to do as the camera follows them through like a 10 minute long scene.
00:25:02
Speaker
full of action and like with thousands of extras in there because I said there was that group with the Islamic funeral procession where they're like chanting and shouting and shooting guns in the air and like just all of that coordinated this crazy. But like another thing here too is kind of like in The Last of Us or um as opposed to A boy and his dog, which is in the distant future, nuclear wasteland fallout is like hundreds of years from now in a nuclear wasteland. This broom has a near future setting, kind of like ah station 11 or The Last of Us or 28 Days Later. It's like, it could happen tomorrow kind of, um and that makes it eerily realistic. And it does have, and what else? I wrote this down here, but I meant to say this earlier. There's a very it's a distinct lack of traditional
00:25:53
Speaker
exposition, uh, like viewers learn through an immersion. They don't, there's no thing in the beginning of the movie that tells you like, you know, the rest of the world's on fire. Britain stands alone kind of thing. They don't tell you about the partisan movement. They don't tell you any of this stuff up front. Like, you know, Star Wars tells you what the big scroll in the beginning of the movie. You learn this all yourself as the movie goes in it.
00:26:13
Speaker
Quaron doesn't expect you to be stupid. Like he wants you to like be able to pick up on these cues and things like that and learn about that as it goes. And I think that's like excellent storytelling, the lack of exposition. But with that lack of exposition, this feeds into the into the dog thing. yeah I noticed the first time I watched the movie was like 10 years ago, I think in college and I never. I mean, college is more than 10 years ago now. Whoa.
00:26:40
Speaker
The first time I watched it, I didn't notice the dog aspect. And I wasn't like, you know, the dog guy at that point. So I didn't really think about that or notice it. But this time around, watching it with the idea of like, oh, how do the dogs play into this? Every scene has a dog, for the most part, every setting they go to, I should say. Maybe not the coffee shop in the beginning. I'll make doll double check. But the farmstead they go to or the cottage they go to, or I guess we would call that a ranch here in America.
00:27:07
Speaker
where they go. There's dogs all over the place. The dogs chase the car. but There's the dog racing scene. There's the um people just all over the place are holding dogs like babies and in the migrant, migrant detention area, we'll just call it a ghetto. Cause that's like kind of how it was designed to look like like a Warsaw ghetto.
00:27:25
Speaker
It just like there's dogs all over the place. And it adds to the chaos, too, is another layer of this. The dogs in the in the movie, like barking constantly all over the place while people are talking, adds to that chaos. But you can see people are dressing their dogs up in clothes. They're carrying the dogs around their feet and the dogs with a spoon and a fork, ah you know, like treating them like humans and and babies because there's no babies left. I find that pretty interesting.
00:27:52
Speaker
But they're like emotional replacements, like in a world without babies, like you lavish like attention on dogs, you know, like it's like a, you're just gonna, because I already do that, I don't have a child. And I just did ologies with Allie Ward. When I was talking with Allie, like we were doing in the podcast, and I asked her like, you know, what do dogs mean to you? And she explained to me, she can't have children. So she,
00:28:15
Speaker
uh to her parents and her in-laws like like not to testament but you know like they laugh at it they treat their dog like a baby like they you know do have birthdays for it they do all sorts of stuff now i found that to be a really interesting answer to the you know what a dog's mean to you because to her she can't have a child so that dog is their family yeah and you see in this movie like that exact thing happens in another thing too that goes into the cinematic aspect, like the cinematic cues, there's always frequent shots of people holding, petting and mourning dogs. There's a dog funeral in point. There's like a dead dog at one point. There's just, it always cuts to that. And it's very, a movie that's so high budget and so well written and so cinematic, those things are always intentional. And I noticed that and not to be like a film buff or like a movie snob, but but like I do often, especially as someone who edits video all the time,
00:29:10
Speaker
Things that are in there are intentional. Like I want to make sure it's in there, something that's irrelevant. I try to keep it out. But if it's an intentional thing, it sets up something later. I try to add that. And in this movie, for sure, all of these things with the doll, like random shots of dogs, like in people's houses and the dog having a birthday party and stuff is like our funeral, sorry, adds to this like world building and it adds to that. Oh, you're supposed to pick up on this that like Human culture has shifted away from taking care of human babies to like dogs as their surrogates in that sense.
Cultural Reproduction and Audience Reception
00:29:42
Speaker
And then the, let's see, psychological impact of that, how this reflects humanity's need to nurture and care for something. Kind of like I said, with the guy, he was probably in his fifties, the guy who Clive Owen was trying to get the passports from or get the government favor from. And his son was at the table playing video games. The son was probably my age, but he was being treated like a, you know, a baby or a kid. He was playing video games at the table, which is something I did when I was like, you know, eight.
00:30:08
Speaker
But like humanity has to nurture in that sense. So kids would be taken care of and that's and that's all you really have. It's like what you'd hold on to. And then another thing here would be like comparisons to real life. Are we seeing a similar shift in modern society? And like Allie was a great example of that. Like, yeah, my dog was my son. I treat dogs and like animal, like I always say, hello Sarah, when I meet a new dog, you're like, how do you do a mister? Like it's just, cause it was funny to me, but ah it also just like,
00:30:36
Speaker
They're an or organism that thinks. So I do often try to like, sounds dumb, but like meet them on that level. I talk to them. I'm like, how are you? Nice to meet you. I say that to dogs all the time. And that's just me being goofy, but like people just do that. You narrate what your dog's thinking and stuff. I don't want children really. That might change if, but you know, I meet the right person. They're like, let's have a kid. But like, I just truly have no desire. but So dogs and cats and stuff for me and what that's going to be. Maybe I'll get a llama too. I don't know. But like.
00:31:05
Speaker
Probably not, but like a dog for me is like what i I would have. And that's the most experience I've had with caring for something as a, my cat too, but like a dog posting pictures of him, having birthdays for him and stuff. Society is shifting that way. And we know people did that in ancient times, of course, too. Like they cared for their dogs, gave them, so I talked with Flint Dibble on that one episode, how he saw like ancient Greek pottery and like art. There's like people feeding dogs scraps and stuff. And you can even see that zoo, zoo archeologically.
00:31:32
Speaker
that someday as dogs get like better cuts of meat, because you can see the null marks on the bones was around these feast times. But yeah, just that's really it. What makes children about a timeless film is just like it can happen tomorrow. Like everyone could just go infertile tomorrow. Maybe it's a virus, maybe Everyone's on Ozempic now. Maybe Ozempic in 10 years like does something that makes everyone infertile. don't That's not medical. That's not medical sound. Apparently Ozempic's like a ah wonder drug that is curing a lot of stuff and seems to have no negative side effects. Will that turn into a zombie virus later? Who knows? Probably not. But just in case, that was a bad example, but it could be just to be a virus. Something gives a... A virus could make everyone infertile. Maybe it's the microplastics in our body, just something. It can happen. They don't explain it in the movie, but you fill in the gaps and that's also good writing because they don't tell you exactly what happened, but you just know that everyone's infertile and it's a huge issue. so then like And then it being a huge issue is so well written. There's such a big story around that. It doesn't matter how it happened ah because the writing is that good.
00:32:37
Speaker
so something like that. You can fill in the gap yourself of what would happen. My personal takeaway from watching the film is, yeah, I don't desire to have children at all. Like my friends are like.
00:32:50
Speaker
just like all of a sudden or like i have a kid, you know, like i I've never had that desire whatsoever. Like I just, I lack that. But like seeing a movie about how a baby like, you know, changes, you know, people's opinions. And once he sees that the latest pregnant, uh, whether it's not his hormones really, but it's just like his mentality changes. I assume when I, if I had a partner and she was pregnant, my hormones change. you I don't know how that works. Again, don't quote me on the science on that. But, uh, anyway, there's something there, right? Like there's,
00:33:19
Speaker
Babies change people, ah you know, they change your lifestyle, your character, like you everyone I know that has children is like, once you're a dad, like you just, it's just different. Like things, you change perspectives and stuff. So the movies chose you that the films near future setting or with that lack of exposition, blah, blah, blah. It's all right. I'm in the wrong spot. Yeah. Then I, again, I put this on, does my mom hate it or not movie scale?
00:33:44
Speaker
I got her to watch Lord of the Rings with me finally a couple years ago for Christmas and we watched all three of them, not extended. I wasn't going to kill her with the extended. It'd be 12 hours, but we did do nine hours of movies. And I said, what would you give that? And she said, I'd give that an eight out of 10. And like the Lord of the Rings was very good to her. She wouldn't watch it again. Can't stand it. But she suffered through it. And I respected that.
00:34:08
Speaker
She likes Forrest Gump. you know She likes likes a lot of he likes like Bridgerton. She watches that kind of stuff. She watches like this one show. A lot of stuff on Acorn and brit Brit Box, whatever it's called, where it's all British crime dramas from like the 90s. I don't know why she's obsessed with those, but whatever. there's better the Dune 2 is much better than that. There's another show where there's like This Australian doctor, nurse guy goes into the outback and like a plane and like saves people way on the outback. Like, you know, her taste in movies is much different than mine, but she loves Tarantino. She loved Inglorious Basterds. Like she, we watched Django twice together in the theater. Like randomly, she like loves movies. And this, was I figured my mom would very much enjoy this. She liked The Last of Us. And on this one, she was just like, I didn't, I can't remember what she said.
'Children of Men' as a Cautionary Tale
00:34:59
Speaker
She's not that she didn't get it. She was just like, I don't. It was just a movie. Like, I think that was her answer. like It just was, uh, so whatever, but she didn't hate it. So therefore it's a good movie in my eyes. And, uh, I know she wants like a grandkid real bad too. So like, ah you know, ah maybe I shouldn't have showed her that, but but that that besides the point.
00:35:19
Speaker
Final thoughts, but yeah, people listening. I know on Spotify now you can leave comments. ah Leave us comments. What did you think about the movie? Did I butcher the thing? Am I missing main parts of the movie that I should have added and here on YouTube as well? Give me some you know comments. What did you think about Children of Men? Are there things that I'm missing? Are there themes that you picked up on?
00:35:38
Speaker
If you have children, I don't have children, right? And watch this movie. If you have children and you watch this movie, what do you think? Like your perspective is probably different than mine. But mainly though, the whole thing about this, and it's a dog podcast or dog archeology and anthropology podcast. What's the anthropology of this to you? Like, obviously we're seeing a lot of this stuff play out today in the the modern world with the, you know, insane migrant crises all over the world. And like this movie is very like.
00:36:05
Speaker
An example, I would say that this movie is especially with that guy was like, you people will make me sick. Like it was like, and he was just staring at like Clive Owen, who's like a white dude like on the bus. He just like, just because they're migrants, the guy said that ah that's a good example of we don't want to get there.
00:36:22
Speaker
We don't, we don't, we don't want that. That's a bad outlook to have. That guy probably sucks when he goes home and he sucks when he's at work, you know, clocking in as a soldier or your national guard guy, whatever he was, his, her, I don't know if there's a king or queen in the movie. They don't say that doesn't matter. We know that it's a cautionary tale of like, we don't want things to get that bad. And if, here's another thing too, here's another thing to ask yourself. If tomorrow everybody was infertile, uh, what would you do? Would you continue working?
00:36:52
Speaker
Would you adopt a bunch of dogs? ah Would you just give up? like what What would you do? like what's What's that anthropology? and like I would say this as someone who appreciates human behavior ecology. The point of life is to get enough resources to have enough energy to reproduce. That's just
Reflections on Episode Structure
00:37:09
Speaker
how biological life works. That's what Darwin figured out. That's just how things work.
00:37:14
Speaker
so Once you can collect energy or collect resources to get energy, but you can't reproduce, ah you can still reproduce. Well, you can have sex obviously, but you can still reproduce socially. And that's like another thing too. Reproduction doesn't necessarily mean just sexually reproducing, like human culture reproduces, like you you're passing that on along with the genes. um And that's an important part of what makes humans distinct from the other animals is our culture reproduces and evolves too. So in this kind of world, what
00:37:47
Speaker
You know, what are you, what are you going to do? This is kind of a bleak. I had this. Here's the thing. I made an outline for this episode and i almost see I listening to it right now, myself, having just talked this long. I don't think this was a great episode. No, I shouldn't say that. I seen this seem more chaotic trying to stick to a script and to not, but.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, just I put bullet points here. Um, we're talking in the APN chat about like, you know, do you have a script or you don't? That's why I'm bringing this up. But if you didn't like this episode or whatever, but yeah, I liked this movie. Uh, I thought it was great. It's a very cautionary tale. It is.
00:38:24
Speaker
It's good. If you haven't seen it, I'd watch it. Let me know what you think.
Audience Engagement and Credits
00:38:27
Speaker
And especially the dog aspect. If you saw other dogs, the scenes in the movie that I can't quite remember. I know specifically the dog finding the baby is a big one. The dog's alerting people several times, but the dog racing and just dogs all over the place. But the Romani lady carrying the dog as a baby.
00:38:47
Speaker
it very because the key is running with the baby in her arms, but so is the Romani lady at the same time. They're running through this like battle zone, your war zone, and she's like holding a dog just like the baby, too. It was a very like interesting juxtaposition, which in another movie, with different music, would be funny. But in this movie, it's like bleak, yeah because they're both holding on to hope, in a sense. so Anyway, I shouldn't have said that. I don't think it was a great episode, but it was it more chaotic than I had planned it to be. but Please rate and review the podcast on Apple and iTunes if you can. um If you can rate it on Spotify, that would be awesome. If you're listening on Apple and Spotify, if you're here on YouTube, please like and subscribe. Please leave a comment. Like I said earlier, what you think about this movie. How about this? I said I was going to make episodes on the different apocalyptic movies with dogs or just some apocalyptic. Twenty eight days later doesn't have dogs in it, but it's still worth talking about anthropologically.
00:39:38
Speaker
Which one do you want me to do next? Well, we'll do that. So let me know. Think on that. And with that, uh, I will see you guys next week. The archeology podcast network is 10 years old this year. Our executive producer is Ashley Airy. Our social media coordinator is Matilda Seabreck and our chief editor is Rachel Rodin. The archeology podcast network was co-founded by Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in 2014 and is part of cultural media and dig tech LLC. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.