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Seeing the Hozhó in Anthropology - HeVo 94
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On today’s episode, Jessica chats with Kendrick McCabe (Ethnographer and Cultural Resource Specialist at Parametrix). Kendrick talks about switching from studying Engineering to Anthropology at the University of Alaska after connecting with Alaska Native classmates. This experience led to an interest in Indigenous naming and identity. Later he continued this work by looking at how people express and shape their culture through the lens of social media. Finally, we talk about his ethnographic and cultural resource work at Parametrix, from working with a local Diné community on a historic uranium mine to working on the Navajo Gallup Water Supply Project, as well as on the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee. Kendrick peppers in lots of good advice for anyone doing Tribal Consultation, Ethnographic, or Cultural Resources work with Indigenous communities!
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- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/heritagevoices/94
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
Introduction and Acknowledgment of Indigenous Lands
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Heritage Voices, Episode 94. I'm Jessica Uquinto, and I'm your host. And today, we are talking about seeing the Hojeon in anthropology. Before we begin, I'd like to honor and acknowledge that the lands I'm recording on today are part of the Nooch or Ute People's Treaty Lands, the Diné Ta, and the ancestral Puebloan homeland.
00:00:32
Speaker
Today we have Kendrick McCabe on the show.
Introducing Kendrick McCabe and His Career Transition
00:00:35
Speaker
Kendrick is a cultural anthropologist receiving his BA in anthropology with a minor in psychology from the University of Alaska, and his MA in cultural anthropology from the University of New Mexico. He has been working with Parametrics as a cultural research specialist and ethnographer for the past year and a half.
00:00:53
Speaker
He also has experience with ethnographic projects for the City University of New York, Navajo Nation Human Research and Review Board, and the Center for Southwest Research. Prior to his career in cultural anthropology, he was a behavioral health non-commissioned officer in the U.S. Army for seven years. So welcome to the show, Kendrick. Okay, I will introduce myself.
00:01:30
Speaker
hi Hi. yeah Yeah. No, I'm so excited to have you. It's, we, it's nice to have someone on the show that has, well, Southwest ethnography experience. First of all, there's not that many of us and you know, such a, uh, a good personal connection. So definitely we have to shout out to Sean Kelly. So yeah i hi Sean. We got to go climbing. We keep saying it in the text mess in the group chat.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yes. Okay.
Exploration of Navajo Culture and Identity
00:02:01
Speaker
Well, Sean Kelly aside, what got you interested in this kind of work? Oh man, I think ah so. When I got into the military, I had a a pretty strong connection with with a lot of the soldiers.
00:02:15
Speaker
and kind of going to different units like infantry, radio, medical, and kind of getting to know them. And I felt like it helped me be better at my job. So I got in the military because, you know, I have back injuries and a bunch of other stuff. But I was originally in engineering at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks in the interior. And but I was doing engineering and I was fine. You know, I was getting through my classes. I was kind of bored.
00:02:43
Speaker
And one day I found myself in the cultural center at the UAF campus. And in the cultural center was amazing. They have a bunch of like in art and a bunch of artifacts and canoes hanging around. and I was just really curious. Also, they were making really small fry bread. I can't resist it. It was sweet like a donut, but it was great. Huh?
00:03:08
Speaker
And I sat down and I was trying to get up the courage to ask some questions because I just seeing different art and started talking to a few of the students. And then they were like, Oh, you're, where are you from? And I was like, Oh, I'm Navajo ah from Arizona. And they're like, Oh, you're our, you're our distant relative. And I was like, Oh yeah. So they, you know, it brought in a lot of good connections.
00:03:29
Speaker
And then they started telling me more stories and then what what you know, I was really learning a lot and then we hit a midpoint where it just got kind of really sad. There was a young woman and she had ah tattoos and um she's trying to reclaim her culture. She had ah tattoos on her chin, on her arms.
00:03:47
Speaker
And i as you know I myself have a name given to me as a young Navajo person when I was born. And and you know I've read that they have the same traditions. And I asked her, so you don't have to tell me, but what it what it do you know your're your traditional name? And she just started crying.
00:04:05
Speaker
oh And she was like, I don't have that. We don't do that in my family. And I was like, that's horrifying. And I looked around at everyone else. I was like, do any of you know your you' traditional name? We weren't given one. We don't do that anymore. And I ah was like, geez, it it kind of broke my heart. And it made me kind of ah reflect a lot on you know my time in the military and kind of talking to individuals. What does it mean to lose your identity?
00:04:33
Speaker
What does it mean to to be in between worlds and feel you know like an American? What does it mean to be in touch with your indigenous side? ah What does it mean to lose it? So I found myself in the anthropology building because I saw a flyer for research.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I
Social Media's Influence on Indigenous Identity
00:04:50
Speaker
ended up in in one of the, I forget the undergraduate research program. I forget the exact name for it, but I was in there and I got directed to Dr. Elaine Giroux who was my mentor and told her about my thoughts, my idea. ah Like I just wanted to kind of research with Navajo culture, what what what does it mean to have a Navajo name? And what does it what does it look like for children right now? Do they still have Navajo names?
00:05:17
Speaker
So, you know, she was she was a graduate student advisor, but she made an exception for me and I'm immensely grateful to her. um So she decided to take me on as as an undergrad and went through the classes. I started to really love anthropology, met some great professors. You know, and it's just interesting. It was just all very interesting to me because it kind of fulfilled that travel and kind of new cultures that I was coming into contact with in the military that I was kind of lacking.
00:05:43
Speaker
So I left engineering because I was bored. I went to anthropology. Which I'm sure your parents were very excited about. how Yeah. They really love all my decisions. like And I'm like, I'm joining the military. And they're like, oh my God. And I'm like, I'm deploying. Oh my God. They're going to Alaska. Oh my God. Yeah. They love it when I just tell them I'm doing the next thing.
00:06:06
Speaker
oh And, you know, they're very supportive. My mom is is very into very, very, she speaks Navajo fluently. She knows a lot of stories. She grew up um at the tail end of like wagon use. And my dad is also very in touch with the spiritual side. So they were really supportive. And I did that project with the Navajo Nation Human Research and Review Board And what i I came away with some interesting takeaways. you know Navajo usage of names for students at a particular school was on the rise and from what I could tell over a certain amount of years. And not only that, there were an interesting amount of biblical and Christian names.
00:06:47
Speaker
And i I was wondering, like, is this something that I should check further with, with the Catholic churches around? And I located a lot of ledgers with Navajos losing, like being given or forced upon their Christian names. And those ledgers are still in Navajo Nation. And then come to find out the older ones are no longer in the Americas. They are now at the Vatican in Rome huh and inaccessible.
00:07:17
Speaker
yeah the Yeah. You know, cause they're, they're essentially at the CIA and the, and you know, it just kind of broke my heart. Like their whole identity taken away from them, or maybe, maybe, maybe in some cases, maybe willingly giving away. I don't know. Yeah. But it also kind of concerned me of like, I was just focusing on Navajo names, but I thought, yeah you know, Navajo culture. But then I started wondering like, wait a minute, the the the
Anthropology's Role and Public Misconceptions
00:07:46
Speaker
aspect of being Navajo isn't just pure Navajo culture if there is such a thing, but you can be Navajo and Christian, or you can be Navajo and Mormon, or you can be a Mormon Navajo. Like there's so many different combinations right now, and I felt a type of bias is what I was coming to contact with of like, hold on, these individuals are also Navajo if they are also Christian.
00:08:09
Speaker
and they deserve just as much consideration as to their identity as anybody looking at Navajo culture as in whatever you know original form they feel like it's in. so You know, i I came away very confused and really thinking about like my biases and just kind of confronting like that. I feel like I was contributing to this purity notion, which is not good in anthropology, this Navajo purity notion and becoming ethnocentric in my own Navajo culture. And that's how I got into this. And then just.
00:08:49
Speaker
really reflecting on identity, my own identity. What does it mean to participate in different cultures? What does it mean to be a student? um Learn. And then, you know, what what does it mean to be a person in the world studying, being a person in the world? And, you know, it's just, you know, with with everything that's been going on,
00:09:09
Speaker
politically, apolitically, natural disasters and everything. that think I personally think there's a really strong need for anthropology right now to to start teaching each other to to to have curiosity and understanding each other.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. Does that make sense? that clear yes Okay. Absolutely. I am vigorously nodding my head. yeah Okay. But yeah, that's, that's how I got into this. I very much love it. I love the chaos of it, especially in the ethnography portion. Yeah. I, uh, uh, I very like, you know, I feel like if you tell people you're an archeologist, they're like, Oh my God, you, you're like Indiana Jones. Or if you're like, I have a revolutionary anthropologist like, Oh my God, you must dig up bones.
00:09:56
Speaker
But if you're like, I'm an ethnographer and they're like, oh my God, what he what is that? ah you but You do what? You do what? You ethnography. I'm like, yes. They're like, okay, what does that mean? I'm like, all right, well, I talk to people and, you know, I help them in understanding. I help a bridge communication, help each other understand each other, at least in my regular work.
00:10:17
Speaker
I tend to go for, I work in heritage preservation and people are like, oh, okay. That one seems to like land a little bit more. I really wish one day my mom would understand what I do. see we can all dream we could all dream yeah yeah she She knows I visit with the tribes quite a bit and help push projects. o But you know I just try to explain it. like I really do a lot of tribal consultations. so And I do a lot of kind of yeah cultural competency type discussions. Right. If you're doing tribal consultation, that's more of like a mediator than heritage. Typically. Yeah. Maybe it may be when my skillset starts to really expand as time goes on, I'll start doing more heritage preservation stuff. Okay. So you did that project in college and you were trying to figure out, you know,
00:11:11
Speaker
if you, the way you were looking at things was contributing too much to this like puracy or wait, puracy. What's that's not the word. What is it? pary yeah inriced Yes. No centric notion of your own culture. So where did you go from there? So I graduated and then, uh, got a fellowship from the university of New Mexico.
00:11:36
Speaker
And I was like, okay, great. Yeah. I was really, really grateful for it. And I got down here to New Mexico and started ah working at the Maxwell Museum under the the fellowship and taking my classes. And I really started to try and, so I find social media to be amazing, primarily because it connects people really quickly and
Diversity and Expression of Indigenous Identities
00:12:00
Speaker
without many filters.
00:12:03
Speaker
What I know started to see, you know, when I came back down here is there are so many different types of indigenous individuals and, you know, everyone is doing it in some way and just as being at campus around town. But I was really concerning myself with how they were doing it online because I feel like the online consumption is way faster.
00:12:28
Speaker
and And I started to learn like, wow, there' there's there's Navajos who have, I don't know, I'm trying not to use like really hard slang. I'll have like amazing drip who are who are like dressing to the nines. There's Navajos really love to get dressed up in nice and wear bright colors and drive around Las Vegas and be indigenous in his ah in his Corvette, his big red Corvette.
00:12:55
Speaker
That's being indigenous to him. And there's another individual who kind of lives in various worlds as to their gender. They are both he and him and she and her and command a a type of matrilineal presence and and you know is looking forward to their kinouta. And I thought, what are the cultural changes? I'm not sure how familiar are with the kinouta.
00:13:20
Speaker
Uh-uh. So film, uh, Kinelfta is a very important coming of age ceremony for young Navajo women. And, uh, this is a really well practiced in the Apache culture as well. and and there's some might some Yeah, there might be some variations as to amount of days and activities and things like that.
00:13:35
Speaker
But the the idea is that she's now leaving her childhood and becoming a woman. And the transformation is holy in which everybody is going to participate. and One, to ensure that she has a good transformation is prepared for life. And two, to also gain some of that holiness for themselves to be used for irrigation crops, maybe even prayer. Or, you know, it could be something as like winning the casino. It doesn't matter. It's all, it's all like, in you in it's all important to you.
00:14:02
Speaker
But the you know there's a whole ceremony centered around it. This young yes a young Navajo person, who is they, them, and also she, he, and also he, him, whenever you know the the the the the time calls for it, is looking forward to their kinota. Now, you know I can't throw away the idea that you know the person has has said they are a biological male, but they are also female. So it's just it's fascinating to me that there are at least considerations to changing these the ceremonies to better accommodate, you know, the person's situation. On the flip side of that, there are, you know, the comments on, both on social media, both that are kind of in between, kind of confused, but also really and uncomfortable with the idea of a biological male doing a kinota.
00:14:52
Speaker
And then a very forward thinking, maybe considerate observation from individuals saying like, no, they are a woman. And then the discussion of like, historical cultural stories of whether like, there are variations of these things in you know gay individuals is existing for this reason, or gay or transgender individuals who shouldn't exist for this reason. And it like the the stories are changed to some extent that it fits the need of the persons or the families. And you know that variation to me is quite interesting that it exists in proximity to each other. So like one person, one hogan over,
00:15:33
Speaker
might believe some completely different version of that story for their family member for whatever reason. so So short, yeah, I was really watching online and just seeing how people were being indigenous and you know the matrilineal culture that it is being kind of kind of influenced by Christian patrilineal culture is something I really try to watch as well. And and yeah, I was just really examining all of this.
00:16:02
Speaker
Okay, so I'm excited to hear more about how that tied in and more about what you were thinking after noticing all of this. And we will come back to that right after the break. Okay, so we were just talking about social media and all of the cultural, I don't know, diversity sounds not quite right. Yeah. I think it's the closest approaching. Yeah. I'll figure out, like I'm in the process of trying to figure it out at some point when I, if I ever publish about this, then I i think I'll come to something, but it might not be in English, that term, but we'll see. Yeah. Is there another, a term not in English that you can think of?
00:16:49
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I don't know if it's even going to be to me or to an episode. It's so difficult because like it's so difficult. I'm trying to figure out how to say a word that.
00:17:04
Speaker
implies an action. So I like to, so when I was in Seattle, uh, for the company gathering, you know, everybody, you know, I, I really liked this exercise of like, if I say, um, do you know what the, um, click chime is? No. What is it? What does it make you sounds like? Yeah. What is it? What do you, what is it? What comes to mind when you hear that word?
Challenges in Indigenous Language Translation
00:17:30
Speaker
Hmm. Huh.
00:17:32
Speaker
I bet there's going to be like an obvious tie-in, like either it sounds like something, right? Or like it is, you know, like the sound that something makes or the sound or like sounds like an English ah like adaptation or maybe it's like, I don't know. I'm trying to say its nothing's coming immediately to mind. So loose, loose, handily, or at least a more looser version of it is like, it means dog.
00:17:59
Speaker
Huh, okay. On the res, you'll hear everyone, you know, point to a dog and like, hit chi like that's, you know, that's dog. Okay. But it doesn't mean dog. It describes what the dog is doing. Oh, okay. so say china is It's like saying it poops everywhere.
00:18:24
Speaker
Okay. It's a pooper. like it like it's It's more of an an annoyed word, you know? It's pooping everywhere. like that's That's what that means. So when I was in Seattle, I was telling my peers, like what do you think cliche is? And they were like, it sounds like a beautiful word. I'm like,
00:18:46
Speaker
And i so I started laughing. I was like, Oh yeah, what do you think it means? And they're like, I don't know. I was like, okay, well, I'll just tell you, it means dog. And they're like, Oh, okay. I was like, dude, what do you think it means? Like, what do you think that, that but how it's describing the dog? Like, I don't know. Like, like loyal, like loyal animal. You know, it's very, very, uh, you know, like it look that they're just going on their own experiences with dogs and what they've been told, man's best friend and all these things. oh And I was like,
00:19:13
Speaker
No, and I told them, I was like, it means it poops every everywhere. i get Like an annoyed like annoyed person is like, it's pooping everywhere. And they started laughing. So I don't know a word that can describe that type of being.
00:19:29
Speaker
I'm sure one exists, but also because because like it's kind of like saying, because I'm trying to find a word that describes the action of that, but there's not really, a heat like, you know, there is ah a general Navajo orthography, but I feel like it's it's ah it's not really substantiated. It's very gendered in some ways.
00:19:54
Speaker
okay So, i I don't know, maybe it's worth it to to workshop, because we can create new words. hu And it's not it's not totally difficult to do, but i i I want to find something that describes that
Understanding Indigenous Identities: Community Perspectives
00:20:08
Speaker
process and not necessarily describes it from viewpoint, from the person who's being that. And I think that belongs to them.
00:20:17
Speaker
And then, you know, the, the diversity of that, to me, at least diversity of language is what's kind of necessary. I don't, I don't really, uh, I don't think there's a wrong way to say anything as long as you're doing it with intent. But, you know, there's an age old kind of discussion of like, is with, with like, say coffee, is it Ahweh or Gohweh? Well, they're both correct. And, but then you'll run into older Navos that are like, it's Ahweh and like,
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah, it is. And then, but then they'll correct younger Navajos. And they'll be like, uh, they'll look at younger Navajos and be like, it's not go away. I'm like, no, it is also go. qui like Both are correct. We're around the coffee. If understood you, there's, there's no reason to hold on to, you know, the non changing.
00:21:11
Speaker
And I don't know, there's just something, something about individuals who are doing indigeneity their own way online. That is amazing. it It's kind of, I think until very recently, it was really difficult to do that because you're kind of under elders and kind of doing it the way they want you to do it. And, you know, and and unfortunately through generational trauma and, you know, the persistence of colonialism,
00:21:40
Speaker
you know, a lot of, a lot of younger individuals are kind of out of touch and told they aren't, they're told they're not enough and told that they aren't indigenous for whatever reason. And it could be something as trivial as like skin color, which to me is insane that you don't look the part, but unfortunately people hold a lot of importance about looks. yeah Um, yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
And what I started to at least come to terms with and kind of workshop with my my um committee at UNM is this kind of notion of they're doing it and what is a social purpose and how how would that look in a framework in anthropology?
00:22:25
Speaker
And, you know, I think a lot of the frameworks apply, but additionally, I also think that that framework probably needs to come from those that are, that are doing the thing, thing, that that are being in these worlds and doing the social work. They need to describe the framework, I think. And, you know, I i think a general understanding of of anthropology, you know, Maybe if anthropology can ask to be driven to understanding instead of being in the seat, in the driver's seat, I think that would be ideal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's that's you know the the the the the concept of doing to me. like If you're doing it in some way, you know and there are certainly, I do a lot of consultations and there are wrong ways of doing it.
00:23:15
Speaker
Um, that, that, you know, some people are just not aware of cause nobody, nobody taught them or nobody stopped them and said, Hey, don't do this. Like there was one instance, unfortunate instance. And, and, you know, I hope it it gets better over time, but you I'm not sure how familiar you are with Cherokee Indian princess syndrome.
Cultural Sensitivity in Consultations
00:23:37
Speaker
Yes. Okay. So I have sat in with individuals of of certain, I guess, higher ranking city officials and state officials and such. oh they you know They don't know how to communicate.
00:23:55
Speaker
I hate to say it, but it's almost like they just don't know how to talk to brown people because they're not around them often. It's like, what do I even say? So they try and latch on to something that's familiar. You know, Oh, you like golf? I like golf. Oh, you like video games? I like video games. so And you know, when all the Trial members give their introductions. They are very powerful because they are willing to speak their language, introduce themselves as they grew up with. And it's a lot of, you know, it ah it takes a lot of effort and it takes a lot of courage to be able to do that. But when one individual who's like gives his instructions and it was fine,
00:24:30
Speaker
But if he says, oh, and by the way, you know, I have a daughter I have a granddaughter back, you know, she she just had her blood tests and she's, you know, so in you can see it in her face like so we still have Indian blood in the family. I'm like, oh, God. Oh, and then you can collect it ah you know, a good observer will see the collective drop of the head in all the tribal members and then see the immediate loss of respect.
00:24:59
Speaker
Like, and then, you know, I'm just kind of like, all right, well, you can't say that again. You know, blood quantum itself is a really sensitive topic. Right. And, and, you know, some try a lot of tribes do it. Some tribes don't even do that. Some of them make you take a test and, yeah you know, nation versus blood. Yeah. Yeah. Nation versus blood. They'll have you kind of oral history story or talk about your family and maybe you speak the language. Like there are so many ways to demonstrate personhood,
00:25:28
Speaker
that are unique to tribal members and then unique to their own families. So it's this act of being an indigenous person, like what does that
Navajo Naming Traditions and Modern Challenges
00:25:37
Speaker
look like? I think it looks like a lot of things. you know We can probably very easily come up with obvious things. It's um you know skin color, it's it's look, it's ah location language, maybe food.
00:25:50
Speaker
But then there are some really subtle things. It's like, what name are you using when you send your emails? What kind of greeting are you doing? but Where are you eating? What are you cooking in your own home? Like there are very subtle things. What is your family like? How are you telling your jokes?
00:26:04
Speaker
ah ah What history do you have with your grandmother? like they're all All of them to me are very valid and make up a person's indigeneity. And i what I find concern with is when individuals who are indigenous look at another indigenous person, they're like, you are not us. And I find that kind of odd because I feel like And I worked this out with my professor, Dr. Elaine Drew, Dr. David Dunwoody, and Dr. Christina Jacobson, this idea, this notion of it the person that is not is is just as important as the person who is. Right. Right. the Like if you are an indigenous person who speaks your language, the person who is trying to speak their language, who may not have it yet, is just as important to your identity as you believe it is.
00:26:58
Speaker
right right you So you have to find some sort of appreciation in that they don't have what you have and vice versa. right and Or it may have been taken from them. Or it may have been taken from them or or you know it may even be around, it may be kept from them in some cases. yeah And those those some of those stories are just really sad to hear. It's like, no, I have a few peers here.
00:27:23
Speaker
who are trying to reconnect with their indigeneity. And it is also heartbreaking, the diaspora of of indigenous people, um younger people, who... So there was another instance at the university, you know, in the in the classroom, Dr. Jacobson's classroom, who's an amazing and applied anthropologist.
00:27:44
Speaker
we were talking about native names and I was just kind of going through um the process of how young men get their names. And typically it's what they're coming to give each ceremony. And, you know, that could, if they did something notable, but also a lot of times but in, contemporarily when young people are given their names on like the reservation, you know, they're, get the the parents had to decide right then and there, if they haven't been thinking about it, it's like, here's a book, pick a name.
00:28:12
Speaker
But from what the cultural stories say, it used to take like two weeks to a month to get the elders and the family had to watch this baby, see what they were like, observe them, and then they got a name. And a lot of the times, you know, ah you you're given two names, a sacred name. You can't tell everyone. I'm convinced that, you know, you can't tell anyone because they don't want you to want it taken away from you. And it's only for spiritual usage.
00:28:38
Speaker
And then you're given your colonial name, which you know is not said often, but that's what it is. And it's fine. The the aspects of of naming is important. There are whole ceremonies around naming.
00:28:55
Speaker
And the, when I was with those students, I happened to talk about their names and then one of the, well, I talked about, you know, young women getting their names in the Hogan, uh, just as, uh, as an explanation. And then one of the younger men was like, do, can, can men get, and he was, like, this is all mostly Navajos.
00:29:16
Speaker
who grew up in the city and he raised his hand and was like, can Navajo men get names? I was like, yeah, they can. He's like, how do you get a name? And I was like, ah just so I can get an idea of this, how many of you have a Navajo name and none of them raised their hand? Oh, okay. It was wild. And I was like, yeah how many of you knew that that existed and none of them raised their hand?
00:29:46
Speaker
ah i ran ah I don't know what it feels like to not grow up on the reservation. you know I'm really grateful that I had access to my grandparents.
00:30:01
Speaker
I've met a few individuals here in New Mexico and Albuquerque who have such unique stories of being diaspora, of coming from families who have given up their their mother for adoption. And then their mother gets married to, I don't know, a white family and you know has their child. And then there's this disconnection with each other, like this this this this child, you know, a peer of mine, she can't go back to the reservation and feel welcomed because there's this collective shame on that side of the family that they gave up her mother. And then my friend is upset with them for giving up her mom.
00:30:45
Speaker
And, you know, and then nobody wants to talk about this trauma. They just, they just want to brush it on the rug and pretend like
Reclaiming Heritage and Identity Struggles
00:30:53
Speaker
it never happened. And unfortunately, I think that's, you know, there are many contributors to drug use, methamphetamines, alcohol abuse, depression, anxiety, suicide on reservations, but to me, not being willing to talk about your family's story in that way is what contributes to, you know, destruction of the family.
00:31:13
Speaker
And, um you know, I run into a lot of situations like that. So the, the you know, so when I find individuals who don't have that, that a stab that I was given as a kid and grown up with, it's just fascinating. And it's also sad that they're just trying to find themselves.
00:31:35
Speaker
yeah and Yeah. So I have a question. So thinking about like going from, you know, obviously there's the Cherokee princess syndrome, you know, the example with the guy that you mentioned in the consultation. And then obviously there's, you know, people who, so for example, I'm thinking of a ah friend who's on one side,
00:32:03
Speaker
You know, both of her grandparents are, you know, we're tribally enrolled, but this person was raised ah in a city and so very like, you know, has.
00:32:16
Speaker
conflict about like whether or not to consider themselves indigenous basically. And so like, you know, thinking about what you're talking about, like that you, on the one hand, like obviously everybody feels uncomfortable by that person who's like, my third great grandmother was Cherokee. Look at her cheekbones. You could see it right there. She had the strangest black care that you would ever see west of Mississippi. Like, okay.
00:32:40
Speaker
Right. Right. um So where does it like, where's the line? I guess between like someone who like genuinely is like, I don't know. You know what you know what I'm saying? or you know what i'm I do. I think I do. I think it's effort. I think it's effort to learn. I think it's effort to learn.
00:32:59
Speaker
and I've met a few individuals who are really motivated. They actually have gone through census records, tracked down which side of the reservation their family came from, seen ledgers, as you know and and some of these individuals look very, you know whatever look indigenous ah means, but also some also don't look indigenous, whatever that means.
00:33:20
Speaker
And you know ah they they they want to reconnect and they'll go out to the reservation and see if they can find someone who knows a story about their grandparents, see if they knew them.
00:33:32
Speaker
I really enjoy those stories. I really enjoy the stories of like, hey, I do have a connection and this is how I know. You can, like, here's a picture. Okay, the picture, i here's their family. Their family lives here and they were tribally enrolled here and they, you know, were taken off the reservation from here. And I learned some of the words and I've started to learn to cook. And then what, ah what because, it you know, it takes effort even to just, you know, if you if you have very much see yourself indigenous. It takes effort to stay indigenous. It's, yeah you know, we have to continuously practice it. And, and you know, I myself would don't really like the idea of confronting somebody and say you're a pretendian. Yeah. But I also don't think. But I mean, there are some people that are right. There are. I i don't like doing it. I have confronted that and it has, you know, led to some damaged relationships.
00:34:27
Speaker
and And I've confronted it bluntly, and I've confronted it tactfully. I've only ran into one person who was really offended that... Well, and they tried to use their, quote unquote, indigeneity as a political a Republican political ploy, but after a little bit of questioning, they just broke down. And they were like, you know it? And then they became racist.
00:34:55
Speaker
Oh, it was kind of odd. I was sending. So this wasn't that odd. It was really odd. This person and i mean if they're already like making up anyway. you' Sorry, I'm cutting you off now. It was odd because this is a person I serve in the military with.
00:35:11
Speaker
And, um, I did not quite expect it to go this way. And, uh, you know, this conversation was happening over text message and I was taking screenshots and sending it to two other friends of mine. And they're like, wow, he's racist. I was like, yeah. So we just never saw that person in the same light again. And i'm sorry.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, you know, yeah then he tried to run for president and failed cataclysmically. But anyway.
00:35:39
Speaker
But I have also, you know, not I don't like I said, I don't like doing it, but it doesn't mean I i i will not do it. I did have a conversation with a good, a good classmate um in the same class.
00:35:53
Speaker
because he did introduce the idea that you know he he had ah Indian blood. He said that he had a picture of his grandmother and that she was Native American and, you know, from the Cherokee clan, from the Cherokee people. And, you know, I i kind of I don't want this person is really nice. He's really sweet. He is a Navy vet. He's such a great person. And I didn't want him to walk into ah a place with a bunch of indigenous people and then. Yeah. Make a mistake. Like, I didn't think he deserved that.
00:36:30
Speaker
So I was like, okay, well, let me talk to my professor and see if I can approach him. And I did. And he was very gracious about it. He didn't come to the next class and I felt so bad, but he came to the next one after that and he apologized to the entire class. He said, this was a story that I was just told in my family. They tell each other this and I've never actually seen this picture and I'm starting to question it now. And I'm really sorry if I caused any harm of your own indigeneity and what does it mean to actually claim this? And I'm just, add I just apologize. It was great. It was so great. yeah So, you know, that just kind of proves the fact that it can be talked about bluntly and very tactfully and people can learn and, um, you know, and, and, you know, being in, being at least, at least trying to reclaim your indigenous heritage is a process and it's uncomfortable. And, you know, you might even get to the end, you know, to kind of make peace with the idea that you may get to the end of that road and find like, Oh, there's nothing here.
00:37:30
Speaker
But I mean, also maybe, maybe you you're led to a different path and you see like a different history and that might be exciting too. Yeah. So yeah yeah. Okay. Well, on that really interesting note, we're going to have to take our second break and then we will jump right back in for our third segment.
00:37:54
Speaker
Okay. Back from our break. And I wanted to talk about what you do at parametrics now. I'm definitely, I'm really like interested to hear more about the work that you guys are taking on, you know, as an ethnographer in the Southwest, I'm always like interested to hear what's happening with other ethnographers in the Southwest.
Kendrick's Role at Parametrics and Community Engagement
00:38:14
Speaker
So, Oh man. So, you know, I, um, uh, well, when I started,
00:38:20
Speaker
In 2023, like a week after I graduated, it it was kind of a whirlwind learning experience. Yeah. You know, Sean gave me kind of a crash course in how this works in the applied anthropology world. And it was a lot. There were a lot of big projects going on. And, you know, the ethnography program itself in parametrics had a few facets and there was definitely some, some collaborative work within parametrics that, that was kind of, there was also, uh, DEI initiatives. And then on top of that, TCP studies.
00:38:52
Speaker
in Colorado with the Army Engineering Corps, the Navajo Gallup Water Supply Project, and you know the ah some other TCP studies with some some of the other tribes, and then some Navajo Nation ah ah ethnographic things that needed to be addressed. So you know after the really great guidance it's from Sean and his continued guidance in his new role,
00:39:19
Speaker
I found myself kind of taking on a learning ah curve. My supervisor, Jeff Radine was really great at kind of introducing me ah when Sean left and then working in tandem with Cher Churchill and Greg Mastropietro. And then the rest of the APNC team was great because they were really just you know helping me c chug along and learning my role.
00:39:43
Speaker
I did do a, you know, got into the Navajo Gallup project. Met started to get into just talking with the tribes and then managing communications, checking, doing consultations with them. We're trying to help them get set on their mitigation projects. And then learning about ArcGIS.
00:40:03
Speaker
learning about how to organize meetings, things to think about, um and then trying to ensure that meetings go well. I had to kind of kind of introduce topics. I did get contacted to do one uranium project, an ethnography in the Kuchikai on the Navajo Nation in the Chuska Mountains, and that was really great. It's kind of my my first solo one.
00:40:32
Speaker
And, uh, you know, the project entailed talking to residents, eight of them to get thoughts on our remediation project, um, mitigation procedures, uh, their own experiences, what, uh, what do they consider cultural properties? And but so, you know, they, uh, did got so excited. I was like, wow, my, my first ethnography project is I got my recorder, got my camera, i got my little bag. And I was like, I've been training my whole life for this. And You know, I went down to Lukuchikai. I talked with the residents. i Again, I really like the idea of like the chaos in ethnography. I've done a few projects where I've just like led from one person to another. I have to go over here, go over there. There's this person, there's that person, and it's exhausting, but it's so exciting.
00:41:19
Speaker
And everyone always interesting yeah and you know i i was really I really enjoyed it. The project itself was great, but the stories were just really heartbreaking.
00:41:31
Speaker
yeah yeah You know, families had stories of of ah ah walking of their fathers walking into mines and bringing that dust back home with them, shaking off dust and hogan's, getting sick from it, family generational cancer, and then still seeing like items from the mines around the chest cuz, and then some concerns about drinkable water. is ah It was a lot.
00:42:00
Speaker
right yeah just just seeing this little community, what it's been through since the uranium mines were started and then hopefully getting their own closure with their super fund effort ah to to pay them out for their continued health issues and just hearing about, you know, and it was ah these individuals are dealing with cancer um and then, you know, COVID happened and that just exacerbated their issues.
00:42:28
Speaker
And then just some concerns of like education efforts, just not really being aware of how dangerous uranium is. And in some cases using it to just prop doors open because it looked cool. Like it's just not just really kind of bad.
00:42:44
Speaker
I don't know what to call it, just really sad stories. And, um, you know, the, the community grateful and I'm hoping, you know, these changes get, uh, implemented that they suggested, but just have to wait and see. I feel like. the CRM world, you know, when it comes to you to do your part, you're like really fast at it. And then it's kind of just waiting until things you know kind of catch up. And the decision makers based on financial budgets and inflation, and I don't know um how, however, all of those decisions are made. Finally, go and ensure that these things are implemented and disseminated in in a manner that
00:43:26
Speaker
is accessible by the community. yeah There were certain areas where I was like, wow, I don't have signal here, or I'm not receiving text messages, or I can't like get on YouTube or internet or whatever. And you know some of them were just like, hey, if if you... like you know We don't go to the chapter house, so we don't hear these discussions. But you know they all still some of them still use radio, so maybe it'd be better to just go to KTNN and have them you know broadcast those results to the elders so that way they can hear it in Navajo of like, hey, this is what they're doing. um Some of them are kind of unaware of what was going on. So it just seems like information dissemination is one of the bigger things of engaging the community.
00:44:09
Speaker
yeah I really don't like showing up and they're unaware of any of this. And then like you go to the chapter house and it's just like one paper posted to a bulletin board, like among a lot, among a lot. It's it's in and yeah like your it's your one document that's on the bulletin board along with Bash's tires, missing persons, awareness of math, like it you kind of get lost. That can't be your dissemination process to just go put a form on a board and say you did it. That's insane. Yeah.
00:44:45
Speaker
So, you know, just making, making recommendations of like, hey, you probably have to go house to house. At least that's been like the best way that I've been able to get some good information and and good feedback of of how important this mountain is. And it wasn't just from, you know, Navajo practicing individuals. It was also um Navajo Christians. Like there were a lot of biblical references to that mountain.
00:45:10
Speaker
um to that to that range that was important to them. So I thought, okay, well, I can't just say Navajo culture. I got to put Christianity and Mormonism in there too. Cause that's, you know, they're just as part of the community as everyone else's. Right.
00:45:24
Speaker
And then you know ah working on these water projects, learning the archaeology, a quick fastening in a hurry, the learning what ah you know what is a right of way, seeing maps in ArcGIS of like what's recommended, 75 feet, 100 feet, 50 feet.
00:45:45
Speaker
as far as like avoidance, reburial practices. It's a lot of information, especially for you know someone like I've not done CRM before. Mostly just stick stuck with theory and doing my own little ethnographic projects on my own with ah other entities, other academic entities. But yeah, and then just trying to bring like a culture of awareness within parametrics. And they're very culturally competent already. and They're very sensitive to these issues, you know, the archaeologists, at least here in New Mexico and Seattle and California, Utah, they're very considerate of, um you know, they're very considerate of the idea that they may not know, which I think is a great place to start. That's half the battle.
00:46:33
Speaker
It is, it is just being like, you know what, we don't know. We should probably go to the experts. What a crazy idea. so what
Building Relationships with Indigenous Communities
00:46:40
Speaker
ah Why would you do that? Maybe we should go to the people who live there. And, you know, ah we, we have, have like monthly meetings and, uh, this idea actually came from, uh, the, the mutual person we were talking about at, at a public vacuma of doing a tribal panel.
00:46:59
Speaker
And, you know, she was really excited. And then, uh, you know, uh, I asked them like, do you guys, this is something you want me to pursue? Like, this is an idea. And they were like, yeah, yeah, you should try it. So, you know, I got one of the other Pablo and, uh, tippos to agree to do it. And we also were able to bring a, a tippo member, a tippo from the Kualiu tribe in, uh, Seattle to also attend the, uh, the tribal panel.
00:47:24
Speaker
And yeah, because, you know, there's such different environments and they're dealing with different issues. And, you know, I feel like there's a ah utility in being able to talk to each other and talk being able to know that you're all working with paramedics in some capacity. And the way I kind of, you know, I met with them prior to that, along with the tribal communities of practice in paramedics.
00:47:48
Speaker
And, you know, myself, Maeve Harris, who's an amazing an engineer, and then Susan Devine and Happy Longfellow. We all met with the tribal members and let them know like, hey, this is kind of an opportunity that we feel would be great. You know, when I've been in these projects, I've noticed a yeah ah concern with the tribespersons that they don't get to talk to like the engineer one person who's designing the road or the right of way. That's not built into our utilization. like There's no task order or charge code for you know tribal engagement.
00:48:28
Speaker
or tribal concerns. So I kind of let them know, like I can't speak for the other entities. And maybe, you know, a lot of them have their own tribal engagement or or cultural competency ways. But I really don't like the idea that I, in Navajo, am filtering the concerns of other tribes because I feel like I need to be aware of how I think can see the land.
00:48:50
Speaker
yeah so yeah So I thought maybe it'd be best for them to talk to everyone at Parametrics. We have these things called lunch and learns and you know, uh, you know, it's where we kind of try and do like cross training. If you're an engineer and you come to like an archeology one or you're an admin person who has listened to the ID like that, that's a really great, i at least I find them very helpful.
00:49:13
Speaker
so kind of So I told the tribes, like you can speak to everyone at Parametrics. It's engineers, archaeologists, environmental planners, you know equity individuals, admin, payroll, in whichever way you feel is comfortable. And here are the questions ah that I've kind of synthesized that kind of detail your concerns.
00:49:33
Speaker
you know, how how to think about the land, what kind of mindset should you be in? What are some legal concerns? What are your best practices you remember? And what are some bad practices you remember? And, you know, so they very graciously came to our lunch and learn. And I don't remember how many ah is a good majority of the company that was there. And you know, the tribes got to say how they felt directly unfiltered. I and i was there for it. that Everybody was listening. They, you know, one of the one of the you would think one of
00:50:09
Speaker
the ideas of tribal engagement is is is not only just to you know b be aware that they exist and they're on the land, but also there's a financial incentive, as as the tribes say, to save money so we so they don't have to come back later with redesigns if they say no. They can also help you avoid issues because they know the land.
00:50:31
Speaker
and you know just engaging with the tribes early in the project will certainly help firms, state, and federal entities ah avoid issues down the line.
00:50:44
Speaker
And, you know, and then just kind of giving their own thoughts on the land. What does it mean to them? And it's really, you know, it's really hard to, to synthesize just how connected the land is to their language, to their wellbeing, to their mental health. And I, you know, and, and this process, at least I think was important to say, especially for them, this process of separating what is important is actually harmful.
00:51:12
Speaker
telling tribal members like, hey, pick the most important sites is a harmful process. Yeah. It's like looking at your family burial plot. And being like, we can only keep the most. order part Yeah.
00:51:28
Speaker
and It's like if you're ah you know a non-Indigenous person, you're looking at your family burial plot, you can only keep four of the five family members. Pick which family member can't stay here. to Choose the most important one first. yeah That's what it's like. And these individuals grew up on the land, and when they have to go and participate in this this way of, hey, is this site more important than this site?
00:51:54
Speaker
that puts an emotional toll on them that they have very willfully they they have very courageously engaged in. yeah And I hope you know whoever listens to this understands that. It's not pick and choose. That's not what happens. Additionally, I know we work in a culture of of like, hey, don't bring your work home with you. they can't The tribes can't do that.
00:52:20
Speaker
Right. They cannot. It's on their minds all the time. They cannot just leave their work at home. They work at their home is the land they work. That's where they work. They can't just go home and, you know, I don't know, turn on Real Housewives of Atlanta and just pretend like they're not concerned about the the sites that they now have to go and pick and choose. Figure out the ones that are that are more important than the others because it's all important.
00:52:49
Speaker
And it affects their personal relationships too. It does. It affects their personal relationships. If it affects their intertribal relationships. Yeah. Yeah. It's sticky. Yeah, it gets really sticky. And I'm really grateful the times that they're very gracious to each other and patient with each other. And you know to me, that the good relationship building is is really necessary. And and i'm not just showing up and being like, hey, we're here to work on infrastructure projects.
00:53:20
Speaker
But if you're invited to a feast day or something, like go, like go, go. but You, you know, I think, I think in our culture of work, we get really, we rather say colleagues and we'd rather say, I don't know, interlocutors. And we've really shy away from saying friends.
00:53:39
Speaker
And I think in order to better work on these projects, you have to go and make friends with your, I don't know if they say stakeholders, but the individuals who these projects actually affect and, you know, go have dinner with them. Go, go sit in heat. Don't talk about archeology. Like get to know them on a personal level. Like do they have, board dinner they love pay for their dinner. Like, God, like, just so like like so if you're going to go and like, you know, do ethnography,
00:54:05
Speaker
please like pay your pay your participants a gift card. please Pay your tribal participants. Don't show up and be like, oh, they live on the land and this project's for them, so they should talk to me. like No, they are giving their time.
00:54:19
Speaker
Well, I get paid a full, i get paid but like I get paid whether or not, ah okay but whether I get information or not, but the individuals who are gracious with their time, please give them something. And, you know, it might not always be cash. It might be, I don't know, they might need like flower, be open to these different, different ways of, you know, that don't feel businessy.
00:54:42
Speaker
Yeah. Or bring them some food you've made. Or bring them some food you've made. I don't know, have dinner with them or something. And, and you know, participate in the cultural approach. I promise if you go and participate in a feast day and then like go and have dinner, see the family, see the people that this land is most important to. And they're in their what's in their own cultural activities. Like you'll start to understand it'll make sense why you're doing these things.
00:55:10
Speaker
and you know And it'll help with burnout. like I feel like there's so many projects and I know the tribes themselves get really tired. And you know every like I don't know how many Microsoft teams you have, but I have a lot. think And and you know sometimes like a lot of help is is too much.
00:55:30
Speaker
Like it's like, here's this Microsoft Teams for, you know, shape files. Here's this Microsoft Teams for ah communication plans. Here's this Microsoft Teams for best practices. Like it's it's just, it's a lot. And, you know, sometimes they, you know, it's going to take a couple of days to get ahold of them. But once you start building those connections, like it's worth it. It's, it's, it's very worth it to see the work you're doing.
00:55:53
Speaker
wow Well, on that note, we right at the end of our time. But I want to thank you so much for for coming on.
Conclusion and Call for Audience Engagement
00:56:02
Speaker
It's great to to get a chance to chat with you. I've been hearing so many good things. Oh. So, yeah. this is So excited we got the chance to talk. And um yeah, thank you. Thank you.
00:56:20
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Heritage Voices podcast. You can find show notes at www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com slash Heritage Voices. Please subscribe to the show on iTunes, Stitcher, or the Google Play Music Store. Also, please share with your friends or write us a review. Sharing and reviewing helps more people find the show and gets to the perspectives of Heritage Voices amazing guests out there into the world. Now we just need more of that in anthropology and land management. If you have any more questions, comments, or show suggestions, please reach out to me at Jessica at livingheritageanthropology.org. If you'd like to volunteer to be on the show as a guest or even a co-host, reach out to me as well, Jessica at livingheritageanthropology.org. You can also follow more of what I'm doing on Facebook at Living Heritage Anthropology and the non-profit Living Heritage Research Council or on Twitter at LivingHeritageA. As always, huge thank you to Liable Enqua and Jason Nez for their collaboration on our incredible logo.
00:57:25
Speaker
The Archaeology Podcast Network is 10 years old this year. Our executive producer is Ashley Airy, our social media coordinator is Matilda Seabreck, and our chief editor is Rachel Rodin. The Archaeology Podcast Network was co-founded by Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in 2014 and is part of CulturoMedia and DigTech LLC. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.