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Balancing the Future Ep. 2 - Building the Profession with Okorie Ramsey
156 Plays4 months ago
We sit with Okorie Ramsey, leader in the profession and former chair of the AICPA—now Vice President of Sarbanes/Oxley (SOX) for Kaiser Permanente. Mr. Ramsey discusses his insights into the future of accounting, including what is needed to inspire new accountants and the importance of creating a “bigger table” for a diversity and equality of voices. Get an expert’s advice on building relationships, creating sustainability, and other key initiatives for the health and advancement of the accounting profession.
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Transcript
Introduction and Acknowledgments
00:00:09
Speaker
My name is Christopher Mitchell. Briefly, my background, I've been in the profession for over 30 years. I've been serving clients as it relates to compliance and governance, and I'm excited today that we have a Corey Ramsey here to have a conversation with us about the profession. Before we get started, Corey, allow me to do this, and okay because I think it's something that I don't get enough of an opportunity to do. I'm so thankful for those of us that are serving, that have served absolutely in the community. It is important that we show up every day. and I often hear as a veteran, hey, Chris, thank you for your service around Veterans Day, but I thank you for your service corey because I know how hard it is to get up and and lace them up every day and just make this profession better. So thank you for doing that. Also, I appreciate that, Chris. and And thank you again for your service, but also for the opportunity to be here.
00:00:58
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely.
Corey's Professional Journey
00:00:59
Speaker
So our conversation today, I'm going to start off because this is always a question that I have first, and I'll highlight your background a little bit. You've very achieved and accomplished in so many areas. Kaiser Permanente has brought you in as a global leader to help them from a sort of antioxidant perspective.
00:01:13
Speaker
You showed up in so many different ways within the community, past chair of a ah AICPA and other roles. So when I think of you, I think of you know what a leader looks like and you know how they present themselves. you But what am I missing? What don't I know about you that you want the audience to understand about who you are?
00:01:33
Speaker
Well, you know, the first thing I would say is I'm a husband and father. And and so I so and i you know am grateful for the the parents and the grandparents that that I have that raised me and helped me develop me to who I am. So that foundation.
00:01:48
Speaker
you know critically important. But I have two amazing children. I have a son who's actually interning with a firm before firm. And so he's a student at LMU, which is a college in California. And then I have a daughter who's in her going rising juniors, going into her 11th grade, and i'm amazing in my wife of now 27 years, who'll be actually celebrating our anniversary this week.
00:02:12
Speaker
So that's your family man is definitely number one and it actually gives me the opportunity to do the things that i do because if i don't have their support. We wouldn't be happening in terms of other things i'm. What time number of never your national association by counts which i think we now go by never ink.
00:02:31
Speaker
I've been that for the last over since 2001, a lifetime member, but also beyond being past chair of the ICPM, also the media past chair of the Association, which is the Association of International Certified Professional Accountants. And so on a combined basis, that group represents over 700,000 members and engaged professionals across the world.
00:02:54
Speaker
So it's great to be able you know affiliated with that in addition to my role at Kaiser Permanente. So when I think about the ASCPA and I think about all the work that they are doing and have done, and I think about your current role, and I think the audience, because when I asked the question, I'm like, so you only served one year, you corrected me.
Kaiser Permanente and AICPA Involvement
00:03:11
Speaker
What did you tell me?
00:03:12
Speaker
Certainly. So I said that it's really my three years, honestly, right? chris so So you have your vice chair year, which is when you kind of get, you know, just getting your your feet wet and get a little bit more of an understanding of what you'll be doing during your chair year and start starting to engage with the state societies and You go to certain events and then when you become chair, it's like it's a whole new world and because you you have various commitments in terms of meeting with the the largest firms in the world. You're meeting with many state CPA societies. yeah you're You're leading the board you in all these things. It does sound simultaneously and I'm actually doing it while I'm actually doing my role at Kaiser Permanente as well.
00:03:53
Speaker
ah And so so those are so that's really a big part of it. but so So you say you're doing your role at Kaiser. and Yes. And um ah my apologies for cutting you off, but the question that I have around that is I know that you're plugged into a lot of different roles and you are busy in
Career Mentorship and Influence
00:04:09
Speaker
the community. I've watched you share and give. How do you do that?
00:04:14
Speaker
is Is the organization behind you? I know Kaiser is a phenomenal organization and the way they show up in the community is incredible. absolutely do you get What does that support look like? but well you know so The first thing is that you know the they knew that I was going into the vice chair role because I was i was nominated by you know someone actually in my company in addition to ah the my California Society of CPAs. They were nominating me in Because i had actually served on the board already the essay was also behind me in terms of serving in that capacity. Because permanent a is been amazing because from my perspective i don't don't have to you know give pto and and actually as a leader in the organization as executive you don't even have a pto bank.
00:04:57
Speaker
So it's really about making sure you just get the work done, however you get that done. But ultimately, ah be when they knew that I was going to be taking you on the chair role, my audit compliance committee chair was aware, my CEO is aware, my CFO is aware, and then my direct supervisor, who's the senior vice president and corporate controller.
00:05:15
Speaker
So in in that an individual who actually has changed since I took on the role ah when we learned that I was in that role you know as as vice-chair and going to be chairman of the organization, he was like, wow, I can't believe that the chairman of the board is working for Guys for a Minute.
00:05:33
Speaker
he completely got it. And he actually came out to my inauguration, which meant the world to me, because having leaders who supported you not only just in words, but in actions, in committing time, makes a huge difference. And just really give me the space. I mean, that individual, the name of David, David Thomas, and he understands that this is the gravity of the role, but also the time commitment that it takes, and that I'm going to get the work done, and I have a great team. Because I could not do it without having you know a great team behind me. But what what I try to do is make sure that the experiences that I have wherever I go, when I document it, and Kaiser Permanente is branded everywhere. Meaning that like when you see a presentation from me, it says that I'm Vice President of Sarbanes-Oxley at Kaiser Permanente. And that's intentional.
00:06:21
Speaker
because I want individuals to know that wherever I am also is Kaiser Permanente. I'm where I need to be when I need to be there wherever I am. You know, when I think about successful people that look like me in corporate America and i I'm thinking the audience is thinking, what does it take? What's that secret sauce look like? Because I know that you had to build upon build upon build upon something to arrive at where you are. Could you just expand on that a bit? Is it a mentor? Is it a coach? Is it a sponsor? How did you get to where you are and and you've been so successful?
00:06:54
Speaker
Well, you know, Krista, I mean, that there's there's a lot to unpack there. And so I would say it's it's really all be above, right? So be because it's it's a storied career, I've worked for, now I want to say, five organizations in my over now 30 year career, and between three large accounting firms, all big four, a Fortune 100 company, and now an over $100 billion healthcare enterprise.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so wow ultimately it be going through those different organizations is not always having a clear path. honestly and It's not always linear. I spent 15 years in public accounting between three firms and you all great firms, but also often didn't see individuals who look like me you know in leadership roles.
00:07:42
Speaker
and And that also gives you this concept of, you know, can I make it? And not sure if this is up an opportunity for me. And so so not always knowing that and not necessarily always having the mentors to kind of help guide through that, you kind of do the best you can. And that doesn't mean that I didn't have people who were supportive. I definitely have people who were supportive. I've got some treatment tours and in some sponsors as well. but But it's just that sometimes it's that navigating when you're in that office, when you are maybe the um the highest ranking individual, like in one firm, I was the highest ranking individual in the north in the Pacific Northwest region.
00:08:19
Speaker
And I had about maybe 15 to 20 younger professionals, some who've really surpassed me. They've gone on to be partners, managing partners and all that. But these individuals, when they were at lower levels, looking to see what was I going to do? Am I going to you know stay a partner? or Am I going to leave? And actually, when I joined Kaiser Permanente,
00:08:39
Speaker
I learned that I could be equally to even more impactful to people who were coming by me because now I was a pen potential client. I would ask questions about how people were performing to make sure that they were getting visibility and opportunities to grow you know in their careers. And by doing that, they had to have good answers you know for me. you know and And I knew people at all the different firms, but it allowed me to leverage what you know influence that I had to ultimately ask for input on how others would know and to make sure they're getting those opportunities that maybe I didn't see.
00:09:17
Speaker
And then from an internship perspective, I have my oldest mentor, her name is Gwen Schiller. She's actually a lifetime member of NAVA. She's a past NAVA chair, you know, or I should say president, a national president. And she's been with me since I was 16.
00:09:33
Speaker
Right, so she's seen me and I've seen her, right, you through up up to now retirement. But having individuals like that who point to your life and just make a huge difference, you know, it just it makes an immense impact and to pay it forward. And that also comes a lot through NABBA, that having that type of, and but when we when we come together like a national convention, it's more like a family reunion. Because it's really about all that history that comes together when you think about the leadership of NABBA, you know, Frank Ross and the other you know, founders of the organization, the lifting as we climb, right? And that you, that it's not just a, like an opportunity, it's more of almost like, it's it's a rite of
Challenges in Accounting Education
00:10:14
Speaker
passage. It's almost like you have a responsibility. And it said it's a responsibility that you cherish to ultimately build and help others to get to where you believe they have the potential to be.
00:10:24
Speaker
you know When I think about the state of the profession and i and I want you to put your human capital hat on because it takes people to make the world go round. It takes people of color. It takes people of of different backgrounds right you know and understanding to make this accounting profession work. We're behind in the amount of resources that we need in order to move forward. So I've been told, I don't know how far we're behind, but I told we're behind when it comes to resources. yeah what is that What does that look like for us to be more successful in that space?
00:10:53
Speaker
but Well, so I'll tell you that it's so from an AICP perspective. We put together, actually I would say we convened, you know, a pipeline advisory group. And and that is a group of leaders. So it's not like it's an AICPA committee. It is really more of a a gathering of individuals who are in large firms, small firms, regulatory.
00:11:13
Speaker
um And you'll also div diverse ah diversity inclusion spaces as well. So we try to be very broad in this to look at this with data, because I think historically there's been a lot of assumptions about, well, you know, you could take any any type of course or it was ah and it was an hours discussion, but we wanted to really understand What are the drivers? What are the students saying? What are the professionals saying? You know, both business and industry and in public accounting and government. And so, putting together this commission, we found that there were six areas. Now, I won't recite all of them, but I want to give you a few of them just so you understand the framing of this, again, based on data.
00:11:51
Speaker
that what the The challenges around the pipeline are that we have there is a cost of education. There's a huge one in the time that it takes to get the education that is needed to become a you know proficient accountant and then CPA.
00:12:06
Speaker
And so you have the discussion of 120 versus 150. But we're trying to move people away from an hour's discussion to a competency discussion. What is the skill set that you need to ultimately be successful? And that may be 90 hours. It may be 100 hours, maybe 150 hours. But what does it take right for you to get what you need? So there's the that conversation. There's the cost. And how do we get the cost to be less expensive for you to to get the degree that you need?
00:12:34
Speaker
ah But then there's also telling a compelling story about what it means to be in this profession. People think that, you know, you still hear this, that it's all about numbers. You've got to excel. You don't have to be the best mathematicians to do well. Don't give it away now. we got charge for this stuff I hear you.
00:12:53
Speaker
But but you know it's just you need to well like what was what do we do? right Instead of saying, well, we worked all these long hours to you know ah to do it an IPO, i mean you could say, I took a company public.
00:13:06
Speaker
And not a lot of people can say that. Or I help my client deal with this really difficult transaction and talk about the experience of what was the impact of what you do. We need to tell that story. I don't think we do that enough. And then you look at the students of color. We need to be better at making people feel like they belong.
00:13:29
Speaker
And there's an opportunity for you to be within this profession and grow your career to immense measures. And we've we've got to do that. And the other thing is that we are what I like to call a social mobility profession.
00:13:41
Speaker
You can be someone of great wealth, or you can be someone who came from absolutely nothing. And you can identify with that. I didn't come from much. right So I know. Exactly, right? And so you can become you know a major part of major firm partner, or you can become a business-industry CFO. And we don't talk enough about that either, about the type of money that you can make within this profession and how well you can do. We tend to log about the hours and how hard we work. And we don't necessarily say how much we make.
00:14:11
Speaker
ah And so if people understood that better. You know, my son is an intern. He got the biggest check he has ever seen, being in his profession. What'd he do with it? I don't know, that's the sign. He's singing. Okay, okay, okay. Daddy's making sure that he's not submitting as well. Okay. but but But those are the kinds of things that you we gotta do better at making sure that people understand this story from our perspective, because we live it, versus having people who don't tell the story of what they think, and just for collects, basically.
00:14:39
Speaker
So when I think about the resources and that that load and trying to figure it out and a lot of what you've already shared, what comes to mind is, and I look at it, and this is just the way I look at it holistically as a human capital equation.
00:14:54
Speaker
I want everybody to sign up. I want them to believe in what we do. I want to celebrate to the point that I think the reference you made, yeah um all of what we are doing and the fun that we're having. I don't see that enough. Is that is that part of it to make sure that we were visible and we're out there and we're socializing and sharing that? Absolutely. I mean, just to give you an example. So during the pandemic, there are stories that i that I heard that approximately 40 million people in the US alone were negatively impacted by the pandemic in terms of job losses. ah And when you think about what we were doing during the pandemic, we were working with the IRS ah to determine how do we extend the deadline for people to pay their taxes. We were working with small businesses to talk about how they can restructure their deals and to keep afloat in times of really challenging areas. We were really right there at the leading
00:15:50
Speaker
right The economies and businesses through an immense time of change in in really uncertainty, which is still uncertain today. But those are the kind of things that we need to make sure that we're communicating more broadly about the impact that we have, not only just in the US, but globally. you know When I think about the profession, I think about where we start. and Do we start in elementary? Do we start in high school? mean When do we start sharing the word and and celebrating with those folks and helping them understand what we are as accountants?
00:16:20
Speaker
But I also think about you know the the various institutions, the the colleges out there, and the wording and the messaging. I always thought, just given my history, that there was a disconnect with an accounting firm and our expectation, the university, and kind of what is shared and how we groom those folks for success in the profession.
00:16:41
Speaker
yeah I can only imagine, just given what I've heard about AI, ah how we're delivering solutions go forward and how technology and transformation is changing things. What does that right candidate look like and how are we sharing that message so we continue to bring about that awareness and curiosity and interest in the profession? You see where I'm going with it because i I see that disconnect. So how are we solving for that? So I say skill set and but someone might say, well, you know, Devs and credits, that's what I do.
00:17:09
Speaker
I'm a tax person. No, you are an accountant, which is so much more. What is that message? How do you share that and communicate that? Absolutely. And let me leave before I say that you mentioned about when's the right time to start. In my mind, it's never too early. So we have high school programs, and NAB actually has ACAP, which is a great program for high school students, but there's a number of programs out there for high school students, but we should be in the elementary schools talking about what we do and helping to make sure we're framing the message of what the work looks like.
The Ideal Accounting Candidate
00:17:43
Speaker
Now, in terms of what the ideal candidate looks like,
00:17:46
Speaker
So i talk about in we talk about kind of the assy pays the t shape professional or in accounting and finance where the stem of the tea is that technical competency. You gotta to have that that's like the price of admission but the top of the tea is where you have but making sense of data right how do you you know leadership and you take in your being called a club your partner.
00:18:08
Speaker
but and how do you you know to analyze you know information. There's so much more than the numbers, but you need to be able to tell stories with numbers. but And so having individuals who have come to the core accounting piece is really important. But if you blend that with technology, so whether it is a computer science type of background, or you're looking at now you know stuff in ah in AI, but those are the things that if you marry those things up, you're going to be a force to be reckoned with.
00:18:37
Speaker
And honestly, because we hear a lot as well that, you know, people think, well, say, I got to take my job away. Right. And it's no, lu the people, can't be if you really know what AI is, exactly. Yeah. Right. And we need people to analyze the information that's coming out of AI. and Because even today, even though I think AI will get better, that it hallucinates. If it doesn't exist, it will make it up.
00:19:00
Speaker
we got to have people who's going to validate that this information is coming through AI is accurate. ah And so how do we make sure that we've got the right skill sets to <unk> analyze and interpret information? And if we do that, we're going to be in a really good space. Yeah, as we continue to mature, and as a profession, and I think about, you know, DEI, and I think about and what I mean by transformation and the evolution into language like well being, you know, and that's more encompassing of human capital and totality When I think about DEI, what do you remember about DEI? How is it framed in your own mind and kind of compared to kind of where we are today and what we're calling it? yeah well but When I was coming up, DEI is one of those things where it it came in waves, and I feel like we're in that moment again.
00:19:49
Speaker
where when When I was coming up, it it was important when it was like something that was a nice to do ah versus this is a business imperative. It's a strategic imperative of how we grow talent and that everyone needs to have a seat at the table.
00:20:06
Speaker
And so that's when i was when I was younger. Then, unfortunately, with the you know murder of George Floyd, that it became a thing. you know again And people were very focused on it. They saw the horrific nature of what others go through. and the But we're all human.
00:20:24
Speaker
ah And so should anyone experience something like that? And there became more of a reality check of what what is wrong and what we need to do to right those wrongs. That was good for a couple of years. Now, you're seeing a kind of a pullback. And and if they're tying it, or people are tying it, I should say, into things that that it isn't. ah And almost like now it's a bad word.
00:20:46
Speaker
right, when it's really about inclusion. It's about giving e equitable opportunity, and equitable is key, right, to succeed in being unin intentional about it. But that's all that's really what it's about. Not that anyone's being given a gift, or that they're they're giving an opportunity that they don't deserve. It's an opportunity that maybe they've never been able to to receive, that they have the capability to do this kind of work. And they're, it's being seen.
00:21:11
Speaker
So we have to stay very focused on that and continue to message what it is because I believe that it again goes through those ways. If companies are not doing as well, what starts to go? Things like DEI. And so it's really important. I don't want to bring that up, but yes. That's great. So it's like how do we make sure that that we don't lose sight of that and keep that focus. And it takes, you know, it takes us talking about it and in not being a record to have those kind of conversations about, hey, this is important. And we need to make sure that we remain focused on this in good times and bad and making sure that we continue to have those opportunities so everyone feels like they have a seat at the table.
00:21:52
Speaker
So let me ask you another question that's off the grid. You're saying, Chris, this is nothing we chatted about, but some of it is. When I think about sustainability, and I think about key stakeholders, and I think about those that make that up, and I think about the AICPA, and I think about sustainability in ESG,
00:22:09
Speaker
I know the endeavors that you've done with major universities that try and partner in a different way to deliver curriculum. but Why are you doing that? Why is that focus? why why that focus well it's it's I would say it's multifaceted.
ESG and Sustainability in Accounting
00:22:21
Speaker
you know Number one, i mean its just it's the right thing to do for either our country, but also you know for the world.
00:22:27
Speaker
And from what you think about from an environmental perspective, and for just literally for our existence, those kinds of things are really important. ah but But the thing is, it's important that we're at the table and that we take a leadership role in this because it's really up for anyone to take.
00:22:44
Speaker
I see it no differently than I saw Sovereign's Oxley back almost but now plus 20 years ago, yeah ah where this is very foundational. we we We have that background and understanding from a controls perspective of whether you are someone who wants to ah provide provide attestation services. Were you attesting to the accuracy and completeness of ESG?
00:23:04
Speaker
you do that or you can be helping to frame it out this is what you know you should have in terms of documentation supporting your environmental work or you know your your social governance you know work. We need to have people who are on both sides of the fence but again if we don't do it, who who would?
00:23:23
Speaker
ah And why not lead you know in that space? so Because if we don't, say a lot of boutiques could come in and figure in peace, take pieces of this and it's a great opportunity. I think the other angle of this is that people who are coming up, you know young younger folks, when I'm talking to them, and and I've gone to many universities and at various events that I see students, they care about the environment.
00:23:47
Speaker
they want they they want to feel value in their work beyond the numbers or beyond helping companies to be you know financially successful. They want to know that their work is eating and the benefits of the the community, that the the environment, and so ESG, and what I'm not saying plays well with students, it's something we just need to do, but but it's something that they're like, wow, if your firm is actually engaging this work,
00:24:14
Speaker
That's another opportunity for advancing the pipeline because they want to look at that and they want to feel like they're making an impact. that's enough Those are two very strong reasons why. You know, when i when I think about sustainability and I think about the point that you just made, how people feel about it, because feelings matter. It does. to A lot of folks, when they're walking about and they're doing an organization, they're making the decision, do I believe in what they're sharing? I mean, are they on point with what you know, the the masses are doing as it relates to this effort. I mean, zero emissions and so forth and so on, and making sure we all have a stake in that in some form or fashion.
Diversity and Sponsorship in Leadership
00:24:49
Speaker
Are they supporting and reading? It matters. So um I think the selling point is they want to know that the profession's on point. Yes. That you care, you know, that it matters. And amongst all the other things that that are going on, we're on top of this as well. You mentioned CNET's table, and I've seen, and I've heard bigger table.
00:25:09
Speaker
I'm not taking any of that. Just so you guys know, I'm getting all this from Kimberly Ellison Taylor, phenomenal lady. She is an amazing lady. So when I make reference to seated at the table or bigger table, what does that mean to you? Because you you made you made that reference earlier. Well, it means that when you look at what has historically been in executive tables in in in rooms, but we are not historically been present. I think that we now have a seat at that table and that we can make sure that that our voice and that perspective is heard and heard differently because it's coming from the individuals versus what people might assume that that's what people are thinking. but So you you can kind of voice for yourself.
00:25:48
Speaker
and you can create opportunities for others. like I kind of call it leaving the ladder down, right? right so So that ultimately others can have that opportunity to really grow their career and that you're pulling them up. That's NAPA's model, you know, lifting as we climb. So it's important that we we have that space for yeah for everyone to have a seat at the table. um And in that gets into your sponsorship. We talk a lot about your mentors, and but we don't necessarily talk enough about sponsors and people who say your name when you're in the room.
00:26:19
Speaker
So that ultimately, who is advocating for you? And to make sure that, well, let's get loose on this project. And it comes from all backgrounds. So it could be African Americans, it could be Latinos, it could be Asians, it could be LGBT plus. And it's also Caucasians as well, male and female. So it's really about everybody. But if we focus primarily on a certain group,
00:26:45
Speaker
It was leaving others out, but then we're not creating that space where there are multiple voices we heard and and we know that there have been times where you might see a product or a decision that's made and you're thinking, let's get through it. Well, if you have broader discussion with different people's views at the table, maybe there would have been a different option.
00:27:06
Speaker
We gotta to decree that space. You know, when I think about, and I only have two more questions, and when I think about partnerships, and I know Kaiser and what they're doing for you, who else has come out alongside for the AACPA and our champions that we don't hear about? Because I know as many. You don't have to be specific, but are there organizations that are coming alongside and want this profession to truly be better?
00:27:29
Speaker
I really do believe that. When I go across the the country and even the world with the different organizations that I've engaged with, you see it in spades that people get that we are an extremely important profession for economies and businesses around the world.
00:27:46
Speaker
and that they are invested in what we're doing, which is why the membership continues to grow and and that we we that we have the impact that we do. So we we definitely need to keep that focus. We can't ah get comfortable. Always still, people be comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:28:01
Speaker
Because ultimately, to that's how you grow. so a little so So let's make sure that we we continue to stay, you know, aggressive, we continue to stay vigilant in our work in that we stay uncomfortable because we want to grow and we've got to stretch in this economy and your businesses need us to do that.
00:28:19
Speaker
You know, when I think about folks that are successful like you and Words of Wisdom, because I think we learn a lot from one another. like I mean, what what do you what would you share with this audience? What is your your your last words that you want them to remember and then take to another level as it relates to how they process this profession?
00:28:37
Speaker
what opportunity. So, you know, in Kimberly and I, I know that we align very much on this. I mean, she being the first African-American and first African-American woman to be in this role, me being the first African male, that, you know, to whom much he is given, much is expected. You know, that's correct. That's number one. Right. And so when you come into a profession like this, that you need to pay it forward.
00:29:00
Speaker
and give back to those who come behind you so that they know what opportunities are available to them and to create opportunities in space for them to be at the table and to participate and then nurture them, support others to come up and to be you know to be to have that impact. I also think that I you know I often say this that because I'm in rooms often where there's not a lot of people who look like me.
00:29:22
Speaker
and i And I call that out, right? That when I look and I could see a sea of 500 people or, you know, 1000 people, I've been in, you know, very large rooms. And, ah you know, I can sometimes point, you know, count, you know, one hand or two, you know, the number of people who are of different backgrounds.
00:29:38
Speaker
And I said that we have an opportunity here. And so if you look for an opportunity to mentor or to you sponsor someone who does not look like you, take that opportunity. Because you never know the impacts of the lives that you can have. And I know that I've done that for many people of varying backgrounds. And I will continue to do that. But I think that that's important that we all do that. That's all we part of doing our part.
00:30:02
Speaker
through the aid and and advance of profession. Awesome, awesome. Well, sir, I thank you. I thank you for your time. I thank you for your service. I thank you for all your energy and your effort in making this profession better because it takes folks like you and me and many other leaders out there to make a difference. So I'll leave the audience with this today.
00:30:23
Speaker
There's so many folks that are willing to put in the extra work. They're not asking for compensation They just know it's the right thing to do and I challenge a lot of you With lacing them up and just being a part of that and making that difference in this profession So as we continue and we spotlight other things as we move forward in this in this You know this business of ours is crazy business of accounting if there's Anything that i would I would share is that there's more to come, more to come as it relates to how we can join together, how we can make a difference in the profession, but also understanding the business side of it. So be on the lookout. If you're thinking about and what else is next and you want to be a part of, share that with us, but be on the lookout because we look forward to that next conversation. Thank you.