Transcript
Speaker: All right, welcome into... Answering pilot. Welcome back. Yeah, Dustin, good to see you today. Good to see you again. As always. This is the second time I've seen you today. I know. Yeah, we actually, well, I'll hold off on that.
Speaker: We're going to do like a part two. today yes we've done it before we don't always do it there's other stuff we want to follow up on but We started talking last time. about why so many young people in particular i mean there are others but why young people are leaving. evangelicalism.
Speaker: Maybe. Protestantism to a certain degree, headed for the Roman Catholic Church. Didn't used to be that way more. from the Roman Catholic to the Protestant. There's a new trend though.
Speaker: And then you know we mentioned Anglicanism. and um Greek Orthodox and all that, and I know technically Anglicanism. The Anglicans are technically Protestant, but...
Speaker: They're different. kinds of uh episcopals there are different kinds of anglicans there are different kinds of methodists just like they're different kinds of baptists so these are the you know when we're talking about the anglicanism we're talking about the the more formal, the more... um high church, liturgical.
Speaker: And again, we made the point, we all have a liturgy. even if if it's not very and Even if it doesn't look very formal, it doesn't look like the patristic period or something like that. Nevertheless, but we we have a lot of folk that we...
Speaker: Certainly Love, who who came out of... the anglican church or were in the anglican church i mean i think If I'm not mistaken, you know, J .I. ah Packer. man ah a great man and didn't agree with him on ect but that's a whole other subject yeah and um evangelicals, Catholics together.
Speaker: ah But that's part of his ecclesiology. but but on on so much other stuff i mean Who am I to question J .I. Packard? giant. Also, somebody like Oz Guinness. Great.
Speaker: cultural commentator, great Christian. so Anyway. We're not throwing off on. everybody just because they're not exactly in in our denomination. Right. Yeah. And we kind of close with that in our. our part one. yeah um But yeah, we're we're not throwing off on Catholics. We're not throwing off on a certain denomination. I guess maybe to paint with a broader stroke, we we could say that we're talking about...
Speaker: a resurgence to sacramentalism there you go yeah and so again as roman catholic Anglican, Orthodox. There's several different avenues that people are going, but it's... But it's with the same motivation, the same drive yeah into those certain directions. And so we've just been. talking about that that's right those issues yeah Part of why they're doing it, as we said last time, we won't get bogged down here because we got to move on, you know, part two.
Speaker: But they're they're they're searching for... a little more historical roots, yeah apostolic succession. We talked about that, and we're sort of pushing back on that. I get the need to be rooted in history.
Speaker: I think just in a conversational way, we tried to. make a small case that uh Baptist, for example, where we've got historical roots. but um Anyway, just...
Speaker: They're just looking for some continuity. And they're more pushing back on. You know, I think the big Fluff, entertainment, mega church kind of.
Speaker: dynamic where there's Does it seem to be a lot of... doctrinal depth and and a lot of lights and you know stuff going on so we push back on the the church growth kind of dynamic too just trying to accommodate the culture in order to get folk in. So yeah we don't disagree with the problem. Right.
Speaker: we just disagree with the solution sure and um so that's where we are and it's interesting that we were talking about all of that, and of course they... you know they discover that the early church fathers...
Speaker: Many of them. probably most of them. um you You hear all these figures thrown around. You got to do a little research before you just start throwing figures around. So obviously a number of early church fathers.
Speaker: And by that, we're talking about second century, third century, fourth century. You're talking about... Irenaeus. Ignatius. yeah You know. We mentioned some the other day. We could mention more. It's not our business to go down the list. um Anyway.
Speaker: They practice infant baptism or or affirmed infant baptism. And it's like they, okay, well now they're appealing to that. a thought their authority right and so we're gonna We're going to.
Speaker: engage in infant baptism now because they did. And of course, What we want to say is, okay, you got the early church fathers, but what about the apostles? Right, yeah, and we talked about that this morning. ah We actually are all about...
Speaker: Going back in church history and and knowing your history as we talked about. and um the the teachings of the early church fathers, but the... earliest church fathers were the apostles. yeah So if we want to appeal to the history of the church.
Speaker: Why don't we go all the way back? yeah to the history of the church, yeah the full history of the church. yeah As you said... a lot of these theologians that that these people are appealing to.
Speaker: from second century that's a century later than the church was begun in the first century yeah and so if we're going to go that far back why don't we go all the way back to the very beginning yeah exactly And it is interesting, you mentioned this morning, we happened to to meet with a group of guys weekly for breakfast. Once a week, we we just sit around and talk about the Lord, talk about the Bible, talk theology. and One of the guys you hadn't even heard our podcast because...
Speaker: Part one. hadn't aired he hadn't even aired yet it's is coming up and then this will be part two but It's odd because one of them said, hey, did you hear about... The latest thing for Matthew Barrett. And of course, Matthew Barrett was Baptist.
Speaker: I wrote a book on the Trinity. I think that's... Probably would. If anybody, you know, lay pop lay people know anything about him, that's probably. A professor at a Southern Madison area, correct? Yep, certainly. and And now he's, you know, gone Anglican. and kind of We've traced that just a little bit. but He's written an article. And we're not going to go over the article by any.
Speaker: means but some He opened the article. kind of Summarizing communications that he receives from different pastors apparently so it's a hypothetical kind of thing and i just thought i would read it because sure Had the the guy that brought it up.
Speaker: text it to us, but here's sort of the opening to a hypothetical letter. I went to a... ex -Baptist or evangelical seminary.
Speaker: And I've been pastoring for X number of years. but I've been reading the Fathers I Never Read in Seminary. Now. Again, i don't I don't really want to be critical, but.
Speaker: ah What seminary did you go to? you mean i'm ah I mean, i'm really, I'm not trying to be ugly, but here's a pastor who went to seminary. And you don't even know who the church fathers are or what they said or what they believed. And now all of a sudden you've discovered them. and yeah you know oh well they they believe something very different than i believe and so now Oh, well, I'm going to change it. But anyway. I can get bogged down. Just listen.
Speaker: So went to certain seminary, been pastoring X number of years, reading the fathers. Fathers never read in seminary. It's become obvious. that my Baptist or non -denominational polity is not Catholic.
Speaker: Now... I don't. Assume that... that this he means necessarily Roman Catholic there. I think he means Catholic in the sense of Uh, the, the... an entire church, right? I mean, in the Apostles' Creed, we believe in one. holy catholic church worldwide yeah exactly we're not talking about roman catholic But so he's saying.
Speaker: um that that my beliefs, my denomination. the The polity. is not Catholic. The Church of the Fathers. was one And he capitalizes this, by the way. act That's okay. and The Church of the Fathers was one that believed bishops.
Speaker: and their apostolic succession was essential to Catholicity. So in other words, gee. Ye - We talked about apostolic succession, since that's why it's interesting. This is two days later, dropped in our laps. And of course, Catholicity, if you don't have bishops.
Speaker: If you don't believe in apostolic succession, then you're not really part of us. You're not part of the fold. Only they're saying that. you know, people like me and you are unbelievers or apostates or anything like that, but But we're out of step. We're out of line.
Speaker: And we're not demonstrating. faithful Catholicity. know You say, well, we we get along with all Christians. We love all Christians. Well, he's saying something more than that, right? yeah But anyway.
Speaker: So he says... um bishops and apostolic succession. That is essential to Catholicity. I now realized that Catholicity for the Fathers was not just about the doctrine of God and Christ.
Speaker: To make matters worse... After X number of years as a pastor, I have accepted the fact that worship will never center on the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
Speaker: and the real presence of Christ as it did for the fathers. Wow. now Now you're talking about serious doctrinal issues there. We'll come back to that because you said.
Speaker: You painted with that brush. It's really a throwback to sacramentalism. And you can see it right there. So he's lamenting that in his own denomination, now he realizes. Worship will never center on the sacrament.
Speaker: of the Holy Eucharist Okay, think about that, centering on that. And the real presence. Of Christ. That's ah a mouthful right there. We're going to talk about that a little bit. Yeah. As it is for the fathers.
Speaker: He says this, I won out. But this is my job. and my family is dependent on my salary I want to become Anglican. But I'm middle -aged, and I cannot see how without losing it all.
Speaker: There's not an obvious on -ramp for someone like me either. I'm stuck. Can you help? And again, it's not our purpose to talk about that last little bit, but... Goodness me, you you say you're a God. call minister and youre you You really have this conviction that you need to make a...
Speaker: a move based on you know doctrinal biblical convictions actually church fathers. But nevertheless, that's your authority here. you But nevertheless, you you feel this is what you should do. and You're worried about salary? And you're middle -aged. You're an unfaithful servant, just to be honest. Yeah, well, I mean, again, we're not agreeing with his convictions. No. But...
Speaker: If you are so convinced. And convicted. that this is the right way. What did the disciples leave behind? And I'm pretty sure they were middle -aged. Beep.
Speaker: Yeah. um they They laid down their nets, right, um to follow after Jesus because they were convinced. That he was... telling the truth yeah um so if you're that convinced that this is the truth then yeah Yeah, yeah But again, not really our point. No, no, no, no, no. Just using that to segue back into our our discussion.
Speaker: I was going to say something else, but maybe I'll say it for another time. Okay. yeah You brought up... ah beautiful church cathedrals at something. And I made a comment about house churches and then regular church redier liquor church building, let's say regular, what we find common in in our culture.
Speaker: If we have time at the end. I'll make a ah ah comment. I think it'll it'll help. but Let's just get back to this. for a minute. so They were looking for those early church roots. that's why people are leaving evangelicalism. All right. We understand that.
Speaker: Part of it was the aesthetic of the sacred. You know, a lot of, ah as we said. entertainment like a rock concert and a ted talk and a lot of modern evangelical churches that seem impression. They want more. Substance is another way to put it. They want more reverence. They want more transcendence, which is where the...
Speaker: the comment about we'll just do it now the the church cathedrals came from and i was talking about the early church and the house churches and all that i'm not going to rehash and i was saying um yeah yeah you didn't have a whole lot of formality there you just didn't you you didn't do uh that They didn't have a liturgy like they did in the patristic period. We'll put it that way. in the house churches.
Speaker: And then we talked about how cathedrals and basilicas came about. And then I made the point. There's nothing wrong with with church buildings the the the way we have them in our culture. We have a church building. And. um You know, I was just going to say.
Speaker: One of the, this is this a side issue, it's a theological issue, and maybe ah maybe it's ah good. to use this to segue into the next point. If you build a lot of reform folk.
Speaker: and and I would assume Anglican folk is as well. And you know, again, reform. performs a broad spectrum. But. um They think that, okay, when we build a church building.
Speaker: we We need to build it a certain way with certain aesthetic. qualities. And because it all points up upward to God, like the steeples and the spires. That's why it goes to a point. That's right. Right, right. And even the flying buttresses and all that.
Speaker: um I've worshipped in... um buildings like that. And then the beauty puts the beauty of God on display and all the rest. And guess what? I wholeheartedly affirm all of that. Yeah. yeah yeah Uh, I don't think it has to be that way. no But.
Speaker: If you want it to be that way, that's okay. And right there, they're going to say, oh, well, there you go. It's ah it's all. if you want it to be that way subjective. Well, let's just time out for a minute. You go back to the old covenant.
Speaker: You tell me. Not in great detail, but... Give me a little synopsis of the temple. In in in old Old Testament Israel. I mean, not like dimensions, but was it big? Yeah, well, it was this many cubits. Yeah, I could never tell you that. Right, yeah. I don't even know how big a cubit is. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Don't worry, I do my homework before I preach. It might even be like 16 inches, 18 inches. I don't know. I don't even know. Yeah, I was always taught it was like 18 inches. It's supposed to be the length from the...
Speaker: fingertip to the elbow yeah well hey i'll go with you until i have to preach then i'll verify yeah yeah that Trust but verify. But anyway. Yeah. Well, no, I mean. There's there's all these descriptions of beauty. There's gold and precious stones. That's it.
Speaker: And again. we're when we're talking about that, we're talking about Solomon's temple, right? Yeah. Which we were given dimensions and so, yeah, big, beautiful, yeah glorious. Yeah.
Speaker: but Destroyed. and rebuilt, but we're even told in Scripture. rebuilt, but it wasn't as glorious as the first one. um and But we're promised.
Speaker: A future temple. yeah that it will be even more glorious yeah um and of course again it's not necessarily what we're talking about it's a little bit what we're talking about right now but but you're going where i want you to go but yeah that that we didn't talk about it anyway go ahead but that that temple uh that's referred to in the future that's going to be even more glorious than the first uh it's not a physical temple yeah it's christ himself it's his church yes uh found in him and fulfilled spiritually.
Speaker: Yeah. and not a a physical building. and And that was what I was going to say is, again, as we've already affirmed multiple times. We also pushed back against the entertainment and...
Speaker: the consumerism and and the fluff and all of that. And we agree. We... want to see more substance, to use that word that you used, in worship. and in our gatherings and all of that.
Speaker: The difference is what we would see is substance. is not... the these outward trappings that's still just window dressing. Right? yeah it's not stained glass windows or flying buttresses or...
Speaker: high ceilings. And again, all of that is fine. And if done with the right. motivation, putting God's beauty and creativity and glory on display.
Speaker: can still be a good thing. But ultimately, all of that is just... window dressing. There's still no substance. to a stained glass window. or to a robe.
Speaker: or a vestment or all of the substance that we find. Is in his word. Yeah. And it's in the preaching of his word. the expository preaching going line by line through the scriptures.
Speaker: That's where the substance is found. We push ah we push against the fluff. of modern evangelicalism in that... what's proclaimed from the stage is...
Speaker: Night. biblical truth. It's the TED Talk like we talked about. It's just... It's just a motivational speech and maybe a few verses sprinkled in. to make it sound biblical. yeah As opposed to...
Speaker: What we practice is trying to dive in. To the Scriptures. Going deep, you know. Some weeks we only get one or two verses. into the passage, but it's because there's so much depth there, right? That's the depth that we're looking for. That's right. It's not outward. trappings Yeah, no, I'm with you.
Speaker: Yeah, and that's just the point. So the reason I go back to that old covenant temple is what you just said. Big and beautiful yet. a far more glorious temple, which is now being built. It's the church in Christ, as you said.
Speaker: And so now, and it's been explained to us in the New Testament that even that temple. was a type or a shadow. What was to come? Yeah, that old covenant temple. Yeah, that old covenant temple.
Speaker: was just a representation. yeah it wasn't the substance that's right it was the shadow of the substance yeah yeah jesus Jesus is looking at the temple in Jerusalem and he says, destroy this temple and I will raise it up again in three days.
Speaker: And the disciples are like, what's he talking about? The disciples are looking around at the walls. Yeah. Really? It took us 40 years to build this thing. A couple of verses before, they were marveling. Yep. At how beautiful it was, right? We just talked about it. Yeah. Jesus says, yeah, and destroy this temple. I'll rebuild it in three days. Yeah. So he's he's talking about himself and his resurrection, of course. so All right. So now that leads me to say this, because I'm going to wrap it with the point you made.
Speaker: after this. So you got the the beautiful church buildings. That's fine. We want it all to point to God. Glory to God. Okay, good. because Because all those things do. But is it okay, and let's ask the Puritans this question, who...
Speaker: came to America. Is it okay to have a plane? Plain Jane building and no ornamentation, no. stained glass windows, not even across in the space, ah just wooden floors and benches. is Is it okay to do that? Yes. Well, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And and and they they thought so, too. And they had.
Speaker: you know, some convictions about why that was the case, but it's just it was just a meeting house. And that's that's what they referred to it as, by the way, a meeting house. Now, the Puritans. They're reformed.
Speaker: Right? Okay. they're they're you know, more high church than than most of us contemporary Baptists are. And I love ah love the Puritans too. so Um...
Speaker: My point with that is you you got the reformed folk talking about, no, it's got to be this way. You got the Puritans saying that way. I want to suggest again, well, either way is, is good.
Speaker: Now... how can I say that? Am I being fluffy? Am I being willy -nilly? Am I being spirit of the age, individualistic? Oh, I want my freedom to choose. Is that what I'm doing? No, I'm i'm not doing that at all.
Speaker: there's There's a radical difference. Between the Old Covenant. And the new covenant. Mm -hmm. And under the old covenant, you got a lot of... prescription, we'll put it this way.
Speaker: The whole old covenant system. sacrificial system, but but again, the types and the shadows. the robes. the high priest. All of that stuff, but it points as you... Pointed out earlier.
Speaker: It all, all of it points to Jesus. And so under the new covenant. Because we're a people in Christ and we're the true temple. there's There's liberty. There's liberty. you can You can worship in a house church. You can worship in a in a cave. You can worship in a big cathedral. you can And i love I love the beauty like you do. I went to an Episcopal school for...
Speaker: most of my young life and just the beauty of the sanctuary because we had chapel every week. Anyway, and I went to a Lutheran school before that. and It's raised Methodist, so i'm I'm very familiar with that stuff. Love it. But. You know, there's liberty under the new covenant. That was the theological point I wanted to make. so What's my source of authority on that? Well, the Bible. I'm not... I'm not going to the church fathers. I've read the church fathers, not exhaustively, but I've i've read a lot of the church fathers over the years.
Speaker: and ah And, you know, went to seminary. Hello. But anyway, my authority. It is the scriptures. Which is going to essentially take us into the next. a reason unless you want to say something go ahead all right so again What do you mean the next?
Speaker: Point. Well, again, we're we're asking the question, why is it that young people. in particular, are moving away from evangelicalism. toward and all the way to, in many cases, Roman Catholicism. So those historical roots they're looking for, the aesthetic of the sacred, they love that.
Speaker: form of worship. And you even mentioned sort of a precursor movement, the emergent church. um But one of the other things, the third thing, we're just going to put like five points on the table. So this would be number three.
Speaker: they're They're looking for doctrinal certainty. So in in their minds, there's a crisis of authority. Now, we've touched on this. That's why they. They want apostolic authority. um And by that.
Speaker: There are different manifestations of it, as you said, but they're looking for something in in their minds that goes all the way back. ...to... the church fathers, which... Again, they would say, go back to the apostles. And they were. vid. There's an apostolic succession.
Speaker: Mhm. And again, when but when you open the door. to apostolic succession, of course. You know, you've got and others handing down decrees or writing their opinions in the case of the church fathers. you know, all these folk are looking, oh, well, they all believe in infant baptism. they must be right because they're the church fathers because there's an apostolic succession and they're not looking at at the scriptures.
Speaker: They're not looking at... all right what are the core what are the essential elements of Let's just put it this way. Reform covenant theology. Versus... dispensationalism. We understand the difference.
Speaker: and a lot of you know certainly presbyterian pastors would understand the difference But a lot of these folk in the pew, I don't know that they necessarily understand the difference, but. Do they understand?
Speaker: Okay? set covenant theology over here, dispensationalism over there. Do they understand? The Baptist And again, Baptist or... you know They... They're so diverse, especially today.
Speaker: But historically, have you ever read? any Baptists and what they say about the relationship between the covenants. They're they're they're very close to... to historically speaking, they're very close to Presbyterians or the puritans in terms of the And the Puritans weren't monolithic.
Speaker: You know, you you had the congregationalist, John Owen. Uh, if I'm not mistaken, was Congregationalist. Um, wasn't Presbyterian. Anyway, my point is there's there's there's a lot of similarity there, but you got to understand.
Speaker: We're not going to talk about covenant theology versus... whatever today. in depth, that would take... several broadcasts sure and we can do that but I'm just making the point.
Speaker: um You're looking for doctrinal clarity. Okay, again. Why are they living without normal clarity? Well, that goes back to what you said earlier in terms of the larger evangelical. Yeah.
Speaker: movement or or or what's happened with um I think... Doug Wilson coined a term. ah evangelism maybe yeah you know it's it's loose it's amorphous yeah Yeah, I agree when you're talking about that that church growth model.
Speaker: So. But one of the things that that you get, of course. You get what? Charles Spurgeon and others used to call potpourri. I mean, that that's what... and the the Reformation was pushing back on. and of course These folk are saying,
Speaker: ah The Reformation was sort of an aberration. I'm a whip. what but for yeah are we Are we to believe that for a thousand years that the the the church... Got it wrong? on on so many things.
Speaker: The established church did. Sure. That doesn't mean that... that there still wasn't the true people of god here there and everywhere which there were Who didn't believe what the Roman Catholic Church believed. Yeah.
Speaker: Because again, as we talked about last time. In large part, the Roman Catholic Church was also a power structure. Yes. um even more so than a church. um it was It was political in nature. yep And, I mean, you know we if you study your history, you know about the Holy Roman Empire. and It started to. blend and meld to where they were even. pope emperors right And...
Speaker: You know, it's it's interesting that they want to call back to the apostles. for this apostolic succession they want to go back to peter as being the first pope right and and and they take that from Scripture, misinterpreted scripture, but where Jesus says, upon this rock, I will build my church, right? And that's where they say.
Speaker: that jesus is declaring peter as the first hope But what's interesting is that. a lot of what they are affirming is not. was not taught by the apostles.
Speaker: in the first century. it was Right. that we We are given... No indication in Scripture which... was the writings of the apostles, correct? We're given no indication of Scripture that they're...
Speaker: is a prescription for any office such as a pope. We're never told that that we have a need for a pope. We're we're given elders and deacons. as leaders of local church.
Speaker: bodies, but... We're never. declared that there should be such a thing as a pope who's over the entire church of God, as it were. And so.
Speaker: You know, they want to they want to use Peter's name, but they don't want to use Peter's teachings. Right, right, right. Interesting. Yeah. And so, yeah, this whole idea of... of a pope, of a man.
Speaker: who is going to give down decrees that are on par in authority. with scripture is not backed up by the teachings of the apostles. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And. um round about the Third, fourth century.
Speaker: It was the fourth century. You had the beginnings. of the Roman Catholic Church. Certainly. Didn't look like... What it looks like today that took a thousand years to develop. Yeah.
Speaker: But... You know, with Constantine. ah You had the what we refer to as the Constantinian change. And essentially... prior to Constantine. christian Christians were were persecuted and then... He...
Speaker: you know, made Christianity legal, etc. and And there were a lot of other things to that. And then over time, as we I think we alluded to this the other day, you have a merger of church and state.
Speaker: And. um And again, over time with. Pope's coming to the fore and papal decree. You know, you have the traditions of men. creeping into.
Speaker: what's authoritative for us. not just scripture but church tradition and and of course the pope himself the magisterium And I don't want to get into a history lesson because... I need to bone up on some stuff if I'm going to teach a history lecture, but I'm just saying.
Speaker: He had the great schism. I don't know. that's 1030 AD, somewhere in there. We'll have to fact check that. But it's it's around that time period, plus or minus a few years.
Speaker: 1066 is one of those dates that Pops into my head, but that's William the Conqueror and the Battle of Hastings. but ah The Great Schism is is right around the same time period. I'm 1030. May or may not be right, but just. for whatever the reason it's in my head.
Speaker: And, of course, East -West divide is what we're talking about there. and then you know you've got the Constantinople. and and the Eastern Church. And then, you know, Rome, the Western Church.
Speaker: That's... That's how that. came to be. and and more closely aligned with. with where you know Roman Catholicism is is today, though lots of things have been added since then.
Speaker: And we know that Constantine and Charlemagne are two different people, because you mentioned the Holy Roman Empire and all that, but we're just kind of... putting that in uh you know, historical context. but I guess the main thing, unless you had something you wanted to...
Speaker: Well, no, I was just... When you're going down that history, you know the the um As we've already mentioned, you know. The angle can... branch off or the Orthodox East -West.
Speaker: Branch off. Again, it was. really keeping the same practices. But as we said before, it was really just a rejection of the political power of a pope but it was still keeping the same practices and yeah for the most part the same teachings yeah other than simply rejecting a pope And I don't. know if this is exactly where you're going next but One of the things that I think is interesting, too.
Speaker: is to put the decree of a pope On. authority. equal to scripture. Um, is Well, it's dangerous for one thing, but it's it's's very strange.
Speaker: If you look through history and... there have been popes that have issued decrees that have disagreed yeah with other popes. yeah And so... Does this Pope now negate?
Speaker: What the previous pope said. Right. Because he. issued a decree that disagrees yeah with something that the previous pope did yeah And so... If that can change... How can that be authoritative? yeah That's why we want our authority to be scripture.
Speaker: Because... Scripture is unified. Yes. And, you know, we can do it we can do an episode about... about that at some point. that the centuries that it took to write all of scripture and the multiple the dozens and dozens of authors.
Speaker: that were required to write Scripture. And yet it all is cohesive. and doesn't disagree with itself and stays consistent. That's why we. believe that should be our authority because It's something that isn't changing.
Speaker: But the decree of a man who is in a particular office. can change from one man to the next. Yeah, that's right. And... And that's kind of where I was going. Yes. So I appreciate that because one of the things.
Speaker: And I've actually had conversations with people about this who who are going down this road. Young men. And intelligent young men, by the way. It's not an issue of intelligence per se.
Speaker: But anyway. They. I'd never heard this within. protestant circles before until the last few years They're pushing back on. Sola Scriptura.
Speaker: Just real quick, go back to the Reformation. We said the what we'll refer to. is the Magisterial reform Reformers. mainly luther calvin zwingli and you had others of course and yet second generation Magistral reformers as opposed to like the radical reformers, a lot of the Anabaptist groups and folk like that. That's a whole other discussion.
Speaker: But we had said that... You know, they didn't reform everything and out of the Catholic Church. They they kept some things. But... The main things that they...
Speaker: That they... embraced. They're just so... ah radically different from Roman Catholic theology. and And I'm not, again, we're not. slamming the Roman Catholics were just This is where we're at. But the five solas, you know, Latin alone or only.
Speaker: And so they said salvation, and we were quoting this the other day. is by, you know, sola gratia. And again, I don't know how to pronounce Latin properly. So La Gracia, you could say it that way. I do know E Pluribus Unum.
Speaker: yeah What is it? Out of the many women. Yeah. Yeah, post hoc ergo. Proctor Hawk. I've heard people say ergo, so there again. Yeah. I'm from the South.
Speaker: We pronounce things different anyway. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. Exactly. That's right. Words I owe. So. By Grace Salone. Through faith alone. Salafi day.
Speaker: In Christ alone, solo Christo. So what what they're saying there is. grace alone it's not grace and works Faith alone. Again, it's faith and and not... not works, not merit, not your own righteousness.
Speaker: Christ alone, you're not saved by the church. you know, Christ, you know, and membership in the church. Some of the things said the church is our mother. and lu Luther, I think, said that. I don't think he meant the salvation, you know. was in the church and you know like justification, but nevertheless.
Speaker: A lot of people. I don't want to go down that road. I'm just telling you what the reformers said. And then, of course, it was all. The authority was Sola Scriptura. Sole deo gloria, for the glory of God alone. That's right. It's not for our glory. It's not for the the whatever.
Speaker: So... That whole issue of sola scriptura, scripture alone, what they were saying is... Our authority is not, and you just said it, church tradition, papal decree. It's the word of God.
Speaker: And so what the young people who are leaving evangelicalism are saying is, Well, when you don't have a pope... and you believe in Sola Scriptura. then everybody becomes their own pope.
Speaker: you know, on the one hand, I could say a couple things about that. I mean, one of the Cardinal... doctrines that that some folk believed because the scriptures Teach it I believe. Was that a pun?
Speaker: ah Cardinal. I'd like to say I did that intentionally, but yeah. yeah i'm But I didn't. Okay. carry on thank you Man. I derailed you. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, it's not your fault. it's um My brain's...
Speaker: Fried. But um... I don't want to steal the scripture. Oh! soul competency or that's what that's. Probably that's more of a Baptist term. And I was going to say, there's people even before the Reformation that believe these things. But one of the things that certainly was affirmed. and came out of the Reformation was the priesthood of all believers, meaning that we we don't have to go through a priest to get to the Father. We've got... the great high priest.
Speaker: the lord jesus christ and we go directly to the father through christ and so and And we're all kings and priests and everything that that entails. And that was symbolized at the crucifixion.
Speaker: on the veil. And the temple yes was torn into, right? There's no longer... that dividing wall. as it were. yeah between us and God. That's right. and we have access to directly to the Father. through the sun that's right that's right yep yep And. um No divide between Jews and Gentiles either if you're in Christ, but but yes. uh,
Speaker: Exactly what you said. um So we now have access ah to to the Father in ah in a different way through Christ. um So... Yes, we affirm the priesthood of all believers.
Speaker: Yes, we affirm. soul competency, we affirm. See? My my conscience... And listen, these are in some of the confessions of faith. You want to talk about...
Speaker: you know, something with historical roots. No man can bind another man's conscience. But when you have papal decree, you're binding the the conscience of others. Sure.
Speaker: And what do I mean when I say no man can bind another man's conscience? well We st - When I stand before God on on the day of judgment, I'm not going to be able to say.
Speaker: Well, the Pope said this. He said, whatever. Salvation Pete. One of the boats... and it's written in the you know the laws of the medes and the persians and i'm being facetious there but I don't know if it was. um Vatican I. I'm not sure, but... so Somewhere along the line.
Speaker: Trent, I don't know. But basically, if you believe in justification by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, that's anathema. So that's what we believe. I can't stand before God and say,
Speaker: you know because I'm trusting my own works instead of the finished work of Christ. The Pope said. Or the... the whoever counsel said. it does that That doesn't cut it. I have to stand before God.
Speaker: on my own. And so I need to decide On my own. what the way of salvation is. Now that doesn't mean I'm not going to do historical research. Does it mean I'm not going to read a lot of?
Speaker: theologians or You know whatever. And it certainly doesn't mean I'm not going to study the scriptures. That's the main thing I'm going to do. I'm going to study the scriptures and I'm going to pray. and I'm going to seek the Lord. and And. ah Anyway, salvation is a work of God. We know that.
Speaker: But I'm just saying. This whole idea that... Sola Scriptura leads to... You know, everybody's their own pope. Whoa. Okay?
Speaker: Yeah. And... You know what they're where they're saying? Well, everybody's got all these weird ideas. Guess what? No offense, we're all sinners, and everybody's always had weird ideas throughout church history. I try not to have weird ideas, right? And that's why we're about to kind of come back to to get rid of my weird ideas, though. Scripture. Scripture, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. ah We would even take it from, it just made me think of the... ah the description of the new covenant in jeremiah where he says that uh no one will Tell another.
Speaker: know the Lord. right Yeah. And so to me, I'm picturing, you know, that's referring to, you know, we're not going to be giving decrees. Saying this is what the Lord says. Yeah. Because we will all.
Speaker: know the lord in our hearts right yeah all those who are in that new covenant who are part of ah his church. Yeah. As it were. Yeah. They should all know me. From the greatest of these to the least of these. so Anyway.
Speaker: but Excuse me. We got to move on or we're going to have to do a part three. and i don't think anybody wants that Although... this next point we could just do a separate episode just on this just for fun but we'll we'll see but we'll We'll hit the five points today and then decide what to do next. to Yeah. That sound reasonable? Yeah. so Again, talking about why young people are leaving evangelicalism. Love to have a continuing conversation about that. We're just scratching the surface here.
Speaker: You know, we didn't write any notes down other than the points So we're just riffing. Well, that's what Baptists do. That's what evangelicals do. And I guess that's part of what they're pushing back on. But no.
Speaker: It's a podcast, man. and Sometimes, you know, we're teaching a lecture. Totally unscripted. Totally unscripted. Yeah. Yeah. we're We're unplugged, man. Anyway. That.
Speaker: That's an 80s reference. Yeah. I think. yeah Maybe not. We might be unplugged now. Yeah, everyone might be unplugging. I get it. Yeah, they might. Anyway. So...
Speaker: These are reasons young people are... are headed down the the Catholic road. Looking for historical roots, number one. The aesthetic of the sacred, number two, which we talked about. They're looking for doctrinal certainty. Well, go to a Bible -believing church that preaches expositorily, and over time, you're going to see there's some doctrinal certainty. And we're a confessional church. We hold to...
Speaker: yeah you know, a historical confession of faith. Now we don't put that authority on the same level as Scripture. No, and we only accept... the confession in as much as it agrees with scripture. Yeah.
Speaker: um And if we were to find anywhere in that. That disagreed. in We're taking Scripture over that confession. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Can I say one more thing about that? And about the... ah early church fathers.
Speaker: The early church fathers, I'm talking, again, the the second, third century guys, they weren't sinners just like me and you. Certainly the apostles were, but they were inspired. They wrote. and they God breathed out the Scriptures.
Speaker: They were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I don't know if he even said it that way. They were receiving direct revelation. Okay. The early church fathers didn't have that. You don't have that. I don't have that. No. Um.
Speaker: Pizza! Again, I forgot where I was going with that. Can you believe that? Good statement. I know. What did you say right before?
Speaker: i don't even remember but but one thing i was thinking ah ah to go back to your point about that You said something earlier about there's wacky ideas yeah yeah that that people have. Even Peter himself had some wacky ideas, right? Yes. Before he wrote Scripture, yeah. Yeah, well but but even we see in Scripture where ah Paul had to rebuke him.
Speaker: Yes. Right? Yes. He would. Yeah. And he repented. And. Look. The Lord still used him and inspired him to write scripture and all of that. But again, I keep coming back to.
Speaker: Mm. The entirety of the New Testament was written by who? the apostles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and so Again, if we want to say... apostolic authority, well, then let's look at what the apostles taught. Exactly. And the record that we have of what the apostles taught.
Speaker: is in Scripture. That's right. That's right. And that reminds me what I was going to say. Good. So, I don't mind reading the church fathers, getting their opinion on something. I like the opinion of of John Calvin, i like ah lots of his opinions. I like Charles Spurgeon, right? ah Boy.
Speaker: He's so good. no and I don't agree with everything Charles Spurgeon ever said. but You know, you're going to be careful before you disagree with Charles Spurgeon. But anyway. Hmm. Um,
Speaker: what what i was talking about What I was thinking about, though, is we're all sinners. Well, even the apostles were sinners. Well, you know as well as I. that Paul wrote. that we know of he wrote three letters to the corinthian church yes we have first and second corinthians in the canon in in the scriptures But in between 1 and 2 Corinthians,
Speaker: He wrote another letter. The harsh letter. The harsh letter. That's right. That's right. That's what scholars refer to it as. And it's because he refers to it. Yeah, that's right. He does. In 2 Corinthians. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. He he got on to them pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker: he was worried as whether or not they'd receive it and and praise god in second corinthians they they repented with a godly sorrow amen you know and so it's great So we don't have that harsh letter. Don't know where it is.
Speaker: Well, let's suppose... We literally discover it one day. Some kids crawling around in a cave and, you know, under a bunch of bat dung. Oh, my gosh, we've got we've got the harsh letter here. Dead Sea Scroll 2 .0. Yeah, 2 .0, that's right.
Speaker: and um And this is written by the Apostle Paul. Well, are we gonna we going to insert that into the canon? No, we're not going to do that. we Now, we're going to read it and and and, boy, consult his opinions on that? Yeah. But we're not going to put it on the same level as 1 and 2 Corinthians. Not because...
Speaker: Athanasius didn't know about it. Right. But because. in in In God's providence. in In his... in scripturation of his new covenant revelation to the new covenant community.
Speaker: He did not include that in the early church, didn't include it. When I say early church. there There was no decree that declared this to be the kid. And I mean, Athanasius, but it it wasn't he he was simply recognizing what...
Speaker: When I say early church, I don't know about... apostles in first century. yeah folk Peter is already referring to... Paul's letters as scripture right when he's still alive. Yes. Still writing them. Yes. yeah so I hope I made that clear. yeah Okay.
Speaker: I'd much rather have a look at. Paul's harsh letter than papal decree but i'm still not going to put it on the same level of scripture scripture's my authority and if paul said something that harsh letter that Contradicted.
Speaker: The rest is a scripture. Well, I'm sorry, Paul. You missed that one, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're a human being. Okay. So... Yeah. Doctrinal, ah sorry.
Speaker: Ugh. That's okay. We'll power through. Yeah, that the fourth point. ...is... They're yearning, and you said this sort of as a catch -all, but one of the things that that the young people are yearning for is a sacramental worldview.
Speaker: They're looking for so what they regard as substance. Right. and And so now. The substance moves from... the outward droppings that we already talked about To ceremony. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. ceremony, ritual. And so therefore... You know, we referred to that new article by Matthew Barrett and he's got the hypothetical. letter.
Speaker: from the guy who's lamenting, I'll never be able to worship. Because I won't be able to make enough money. but I'll never be able to worship the way I want to worship in my denomination.
Speaker: Because... We won't be centered. On the Holy Eucharist. which we would refer to as Lord's Supper. I don't have a problem with the word Eucharist. It just means blessing, right? Um,
Speaker: Eucharist. Oh, I believe is the Greek word verb form. You know, I bless the Lord. Praise the Lord. But... But then he said, and the... What did he say the spiritual no he didn't say spiritual The real, the real presence of Christ.
Speaker: Man, we... I'd love to do a whole broadcast on sacramentalism. We probably should. yeah But what we're talking about here very quickly. You know, the the Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation.
Speaker: That when the elements of the, of them they call it the mass, of course. when they're consecrated by the priest. And as you ingest those elements, They are. the substance of them is transformed from.
Speaker: you know bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ. And and so it is a re -sacrifice of Christ every time they participate. And so they they believe that this is what takes place. yeah So that's the literal presence of Christ. And then, of course, the Lutheran view is consubstantiation.
Speaker: It's close to the Catholic view, but not exactly. And basically they would say. that Christ is present, but... We don't believe the elements are transubstantial or transform. but his presence is behind the elements. Now, I'm not sure what that means. I'm not sure they do either. Yeah, it's a very vague yeah statement. yeah um And again, it's coming from Luther.
Speaker: who was not wanting to divorce from the Catholic Church. And so I think it's born out of. An understanding and a recognition recognition that...
Speaker: the transubstantiation taught by the Catholic Church. was wrong. Yep. but Not wanting to divorce entirely from that. No, you're right And he would say that that that you had the real presence of Christ. And then the calvin the Calvin's view, Calvinistic view. But Calvin's view.
Speaker: You had the spiritual presence of Christ. and that that Um, When you participate in the Lord's Supper, Different folk talk about it different ways, but Christ is present.
Speaker: in a unique way in the administration of the sacraments. Others would say, um And I'm. Calvin himself, you know, were spiritually transported. you know, with Christ in heaven.
Speaker: You know, not literally, but, you know, ah when we're feasting. you know, with Christ and on Christ in that sense. But the the whole point with the sacramental view...
Speaker: is that something special is going on there. And I'm using the word. Special. A sacrament, of course. Literally. Well, in Roman Catholic theology,
Speaker: We'll even eat... All sacramental theology, grace is dispensed to the sacrament. Now, how that happens. they would see it differently in different traditions, of course. But, for example, when the infant is baptized in Roman Catholicism,
Speaker: Grace's dispense literally through. the sacrament itself. So when that baby is baptized, The grace of God is infused into his soul. and ah You know, their term is, we're going back to Latin here, is ex opera operata. And it refers to...
Speaker: In the doing, it is done. basically the the sacrament itself. is the conduit through which the grace. goes. They would refer to it as holy water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: The reformers would see it a little bit differently, and and there's a spectrum there. There are some Presbyterians who believe in baptismal regeneration, for example. There are some who do not. Most don't. I'll stipulate to that. Some believe.
Speaker: Not necessarily baptismal regeneration, but they... They call it presumptive regeneration, by the way. Some believe in presumptive election. They don't believe the infant is is necessarily regenerate.
Speaker: but they believe he's elect. And then other Presbyterians would say, well, no, we don't believe in either one of those things. And then they got this whole covenant child theology. but um they'll have to reaffirm their own.
Speaker: baptism down the road. And anyway, they could walk away from the covenant and all that stuff. that That's a whole other discussion for another time. Yeah. I don't know why I get bogged down in these things. cause I guess because I think in circles.
Speaker: But the point is... that They're looking for the substance because they're saying this this notion that So the Zwinglian view, which is also the Baptist view, which is our view, is that...
Speaker: When we participate in the Lord's Supper. It's a memorial. Right. And that's because. These other views, no matter where, how far along the spectrum they land.
Speaker: whether it's all the way to Roman Catholic or over to Presbyterian. is That. They really and truly are taking it beyond. how Jesus himself described it. yeah because when jesus initiated this with his disciples Before he was crucified,
Speaker: He said this due in remembrance. of me And so, yes, we view it as a memorial, a remembrance. of Christ in a sacrifice.
Speaker: Nothing more, nothing less. it's And we would call it an ordinance rather than a sacrament. ye Because... It's merely a, it's a sign. It's a remembrance. It's a memorial of Christ and his death on the cross. Yeah. That's right. there's no grace that's dispensed through that action same thing with baptism Again, there's a picture of... the death, burial and resurrection, right? yeah That's why we baptize by immersion. But again. it
Speaker: There's nothing that's been infused through the water or anything like that. yeah or the act itself. It is a sign and it's pointing to a greater. reality.
Speaker: But there's nothing. spiritual or metaphysical that's taking place yeah in either one of those. ordinances That they would call sacraments. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm going to comment on it. Can I ask you a question? yeah Because I was talking about. Earlier, you know. The Lord's Supper, or the Mass, Transubstantiation, Constantiation, all that. Then I got off on baptism. I didn't confuse the two, did I?
Speaker: that' that I'm wondering if I'm heaven. A senior moment. Well, we we mentioned both. Okay, good. Because it's like, wait a minute, I was talking about this, and all of a sudden. Well, I was assuming you you were just, it was a very smooth the transition. It was so smooth you didn't even notice it. Exactly. Well, if that's what it was, then okay, praise God. That's what we're going on with. We'll go with that. Yeah.
Speaker: So... We got to. We got to talk about I would love to talk about Lord's Supper and baptism more. yeah Can we do that? Yeah, sometime, whether it's next time or another time, you know, because we got this whole discussion on in the early church.
Speaker: It wasn't. Light. Oh. That's okay. This part's free. We don't charge for this. Okay. Praise God. It it wasn't a ritual, you know. They were meeting in in the house church.
Speaker: And they had a fellowship meal. and the Lord's Supper celebrating. The body and blood was it was in the context of that fellowship meal. And so now... even in Baptist churches.
Speaker: The predominant way that folk do the Lord's Supper is... They'll pass out. You know, the little... Cups of... Grape juice. Yeah. We use wine. um We do have grape juice for those. issues of conscience, Romans 14. We're good with that.
Speaker: But they pass out the the bread and the wine, and it's it's in the context of a formal worship service. And everybody's really solemn. and yeah You know, we're praying and our heads are down, you know.
Speaker: And all of that, and we're examining our hearts and all of that. Now we try to talk about. There's a celebratory aspect to it. and Our fellowship with God and fellowship with one another and all that. And as you said last time, well...
Speaker: We have done it in the context of a meal. and we'll do that again but um Da -da. One of the things that that the young people.
Speaker: And it's not just young people, but anyway. One of the things they're asking is... um Yeah. why Why don't we have a little more substance? Why don't we believe in? Calvin's view or the Luther's view or...
Speaker: the Catholic view. And I just want to say. We wouldn't even be having these discussions. If it weren't for the rise of the Roman Catholic Church over a thousand year period, because again.
Speaker: The Reformers Like you said, I mean, this is your point, Luther didn't believe in transubstantiation. But he couldn't get away from the idea that something. mysterious was going on there. Yeah. I think it's interesting that the word is substantiation and we keep going back to the word substance. Yeah.
Speaker: And so, again, is looking for. Some substance. Yeah. Even Luther was, yeah right? But again, we don't want to lose sight of the substance is Christ himself. yeah and the substance is not the elements.
Speaker: it's not the water of baptism it's not the bread or the wine that's not the substance that's again the shadow yeah Of the substance. yeah Human beings want substance. Human beings love religion. We want something we can grasp and hold on to. That's right. And I don't care what religion you are. That's why there's so many religions. And that's why so many religions have.
Speaker: ceremony and ritual yeah and physical things. as representations of their faith. That's right. Whatever it may be, that's because we want something that we can hold on to.
Speaker: It's why the the Hebrews... children, We're dancing. in front of a golden calf that they had made. ah Nothing. just very recently after ending up in the desert, escaping. the very idolatry that they're now.
Speaker: going back to and participating in. is because... They even said... you know okay moses is talking to god but we can't see him we can't touch him We want something we can touch and feel, right? Mm -hmm.
Speaker: That immediately led them to idolatry and they suffered for that. They were disciplined for that. They were punished yeah for that. because they were reaching for the substance. And they tried to substitute the substance.
Speaker: with something. else yeah Besides God himself. Yeah. Peter. The Apostle writing under the inspiration of the Spirit, said, And maybe you can quote this verse. Maybe we look it up for another time.
Speaker: But I'm remembering part of this verse. He's talking. to the the diaspora there and he says um Talking about Jesus, whom having not seen, you love. I mean brother.
Speaker: Jesus walked the earth for 33 years. We know that. But most Christians have never seen him face to face. Yeah, because even the Christians to which... Peter was writing. You said it's the diaspora. which means those who were dispersed, who were...
Speaker: Spread out. who We're... all over the place, right? And. Jesus did walk the earth. but he walked jerusalem Right. So even even. most of the Christians of the first century would not have physically seen jesus right right if they didn't live in jerusalem yeah During the three years of his public ministry, they they wouldn't have crossed paths with him. right and you And you're, of course, 100 % right about that. In my statement,
Speaker: I don't know if I'm right because you a lot of Christians who have who have died in the last 2 ,000 years have seen Jesus face to face. But anyway, so I don't know. I'm just saying. No Christian on the planet has ever seen Jesus face to face, you know the ones who are still alive. But anyway.
Speaker: We're going to come back to that subject, sacramentalism, because it's big. Sure. Okay. Yeah. Last point, and we can just wrap this. um Young people looking for intellectual structure.
Speaker: and moral consistency. So they're tired of the TED Talks. Okay. all So are we. So are we. They won't. theology. They want in they want depth. We do too. So we preach.
Speaker: Expository preaching. It's not what we do, but... you know What should we do? We should have theology classes. Christian philosophy classes, Christian worldview classes, Christian ethics classes.
Speaker: Talk about... ethics and Christian worldview in the sermons. We agree with all of that. Of course, that's one of the reasons. so we're doing a podcast How does...
Speaker: see one of the things that we've often said we always say is that the biblical worldview There's a biblical worldview to every aspect of life. We want to know what it is. So we echo the young people's desire for that.
Speaker: But you're not going to find it. in, in Church tradition. Mate, okay, you can go back and you you can look at at some of the... Philosophy of Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker: major Catholic figure. Okay. um And i'm I'm down with a lot of what he said. Here's some of the the natural. natural law arguments for the existence of God?
Speaker: I'm not strictly a natural law guy. Mm -hmm. Obviously, there's such a thing as natural law. That's a whole other discussion. yeah What kind of access do we have to natural law? Add that one to the list. Yeah, add it to the list. yeah But I'm just saying.
Speaker: I get why you know You want to go read Aquinas and the Church Fathers. Sure. but Have you ever read some of these Baptist historians, Baptist theologians, yet historically? Not only that. Have you ever? wrestled.
Speaker: With. ethics from a different worldview? Have you ever studied presuppositionalism? Which... was developed largely by... reformed folk. Versus...
Speaker: say, classical apologetics, which would be rooted more in a a Tome -ish kind of view. i'm I'm just asking the question. So we're not against. Theological rigor, we love it. And philosophical rigor, we love it. Christians should be well -read and well -rounded.
Speaker: And. not just read. from the same sources all the time of Christian thought. um i'm not I'm not saying we need to go out and read the Koran or Avogadvita or anything like that. yeah But I think we should be well read in church.
Speaker: fathers to use that term in church history the early church teachings and and throughout history. But what we want to do with... going all the way back to these early church fathers.
Speaker: through the Reformation, through... great awakening all of these things that are good to read is we want to sift through all of it. Yeah. And that structure that we're talking about, the intellectual intellectual structure.
Speaker: that we're looking for is scripture itself yeah and so when we're sifting Again, we're going to find where... People get off in the weeds. Everywhere. yeah we've already We've already mentioned there's things that... We might not agree with Spurgeon on. There's things. that we're not going to agree with Calvin on. There's things that we're not going to agree with Luther on.
Speaker: so on and so forth. But what we do is we sift through to find. What did they teach? that aligns with scripture that's where the substance is that we want to hold on to yeah from those teachings from those early writings.
Speaker: That's what we want to hold on to, sift all the other stuff out. That's right. and Again. That's why it's not scripture. Because all scripture. is god -breathed right so there's no error in scripture But...
Speaker: Everything else is going to have error in it. But that doesn't mean that there can't be truth in it as well. And so we sift through and if we find truth that lines up with scripture, then we can hold on to it as substance. Yeah. We sift through and we find no truth that aligns with scripture.
Speaker: Then we say, okay, that we throw that out. That's not not anything we need to. We need to... worry ourselves with or or spend time learning and reading. Absolutely. But yeah, that that structure that we're looking for has to be Scripture, and everything else has to line up. with that. Yeah.
Speaker: and And the same thing with the that moral. consistency is the only thing as we've talked over and over again that is consistent in the Christian faith.
Speaker: is the Bible. That's right. It's consistent with itself from from Genesis 1. Revelation 21. Or 22, sorry. it Didn't take one out. Yeah, I hear you. But it's it's consistent from beginning to end.
Speaker: And so. intellectually and morally. the consistency and the foundation that we find. has to be found in there. And anything else that we read outside of that or that we listen to or that we follow.
Speaker: has to line up. With that, That is consistent. Yeah. And if it's not, then... It's not something for us to follow it in life. Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to say to my Gen Z friends, and I mean this sincerely.
Speaker: The Bible itself is the precondition for intelligibility. And if you don't know what that means... then you need to read you some Reformed. Apologetics. And man put Thomas on the shelf for a little bit and come on back. And I mean that sincerely, not arrogantly. but Anyway, that's that's all I...
Speaker: Brother. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's all I need to say today. well um I'll be ready to talk next time, Sue. Yeah, like I said, this was a bonus episode. We're not going to charge any extra for the extra time. Yeah, praise God. This is free to you, so I hope you enjoy. Amen.
Speaker: We'll see you make the next time. on Answering Pilot. The Answering Pilot Podcast is a ministry of Randall House Church in Greer, South Carolina. You can learn more at www .randallhousebeer .com. slash church You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram. at at Randall House Church. Don't forget to like and subscribe.
Speaker: and we'll see you next time.
